Central Lutheran Church - Elk River
Central Lutheran Church - Elk River
Do We Have to Go to Church? with Sonja Knutson
Do you really need to go to church to grow spiritually?" This is one of the thought-provoking questions we tackle in this episode as we explore the role of church attendance in deepening one's faith and relationship with Jesus. We share personal stories, like Sonia's journey of finding healing within the church community after a tumultuous childhood and Peter's life-changing experience with discipleship that led him to a new spiritual home. These heartfelt narratives highlight the profound impact of communal worship and mutual support in fostering spiritual growth.
As we continue our "You Pick" series, we dive into the complexities of whether church attendance is truly necessary for a fulfilling faith life. With biblical references like Ephesians 2:8-10, we emphasize that salvation comes through grace, not church attendance, yet we underscore the irreplaceable value of community. While acknowledging the modern decline in church attendance, we make a compelling case for the benefits of belonging to a church family—offering mutual support, accountability, and a space for collective worship modeled by Jesus himself.
The episode culminates in a celebration of fellowship and discipleship, with a special focus on the power of journey groups and house churches. I share my own journey of accepting a new role at Central Lutheran Church, initially hesitant but eventually inspired by God's call to foster discipleship. With excitement and gratitude, we encourage listeners to consider joining or hosting a journey group, highlighting the blessings of such intimate and transformative gatherings. We end with a heartfelt prayer, thanking Jesus for the gift of community and seeking His guidance in our spiritual journeys.
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Good morning Central again. Don't you love kids? No, caitlin, that look of fear with her children up here. You know we love kids here and if at any point you want your kids to stay in the sanctuary, we would encourage them to do that and then, if they're getting antsy and making you feel nervous, go ahead and step out for a little bit and then bring them back in, because they're not going to grow, this generation, and they're not going to grow in faith unless they're in this place, in this building, growing in community. Amen, so get them here, drag them here on Sunday mornings. They will love it in time, dang it.
Speaker 1:I want to give a quick shout out to a couple past seniors who are going to be freshmen soon because they're heading out to college. Our own, gavin Braley, who runs our property here on Sunday morning, happens to be Ryan's son, is leaving this week for college. He's not the only one. We know that. Gavin, can you stand up and don't cry, because then I'm going to cry. But I just want you guys to recognize that he has been a part of this body and we love teenagers in this place as well, learning responsibility and doing life with us and growing in faith together with us. So if you see Gavin later in the hallway, or Emery, which is Peter's son, or any other kiddo that's going to college or going off to military or going into life and taking this new big step, a new challenge, would you please give him a high, high five. Ready, ready, gavin. Good job, buddy. All right, we love you, thank you.
Speaker 1:So we are in the you Pick series here at Central. I think we're in week five and I love this series. I really do. I think it's really you telling us how you want to grow in your faith and where you want to challenge yourself, or just weird questions about the Bible in general. We have a lot more Sundays coming up with more questions. I think we had over 40 questions and obviously we can't hit them all, so we're going to do our best and we handpicked some of them so far. We've talked about what happens when you die. Who wants that question? Ryan's like I'll take that one. And then what is the rapture? He talked a little bit about that. He also talked about the Sabbath and what does it mean to have a Sabbath, a day of rest? Ben last week talked about how do you know if you have enough faith great sermon. So I would encourage you to go back and listen to that, and for those that we aren't going to hit up here, then Ryan's gonna do his best to hit all of them on his podcast, which is called Reflections, and you'll find it at on our central website. So we'd encourage you to go on the website and follow along with this podcast. He has a lot of fun doing that.
Speaker 1:This week I'm going to be talking about how do I have to go to church, which is what I talked about with the kiddos. Now, I can guarantee you that a kid did not submit this question. It was actually asked in a couple different ways, and I think it's a great question to be asked because, as you know, the church itself is declining in-person worship, and so why not hit that? When we were raising our kids my husband Jeff and I in the church, my youngest son hated going to church. Now he's a very active boy, had struggles with like ADHD, and we used to sit in the back of the pew, and everything he does even today he's 27 years old is like, loud and boisterous, and you know if he's driving a car on the pew it's not like, you know it's like, or if he was coloring, it was like every movement had a sound. So of course we're going to sit in the back of the church with him.
Speaker 1:But also at the time we were going to a church up in Big Lake and it was very liturgical and more traditional and so he didn't really get much out of the service and they didn't excuse their kids so he had to sit through the sermon with us. And our other oldest boy is more complacent. He just politely would read through books, but not Connor. And so one time I'm like what would help you get through church a little bit better? Well, if I could just sit in the front row, because then I can see and I can hear better and we're like okay, but if you sit in the front row like your cars can't have a noise and you can't be loud and rambunctious and all the things. Well, we came early to make sure that we get the front row because you know all Lutherans crowd to their front row, and so we were in and church hadn't even started yet and we're in through the first worship song and he's, and my husband, who just doesn't have a lot of patience for that kind of stuff, picks him up like a football and he trucks down the middle aisle and Connor, who was like three at the time, is like Pray for me To the congregation. And you know I'm in the front row with my five-year-old who's politely reading the book and you'd think I would be appalled by this action and I'm like I'm a good mom. He knows he needs prayer.
Speaker 1:So do you have to go to church? You know, definitely it's something that we have to talk about. He would say to this day. I think no. Does he want to raise his family someday in a church and in a community? Absolutely, but it's a great question, and so let's begin this morning in prayer. Father, we thank you for this opportunity that we can talk about this.
Speaker 1:Why don't people go to church? What has grown us, perhaps, away from it, and how do we grow closer into church and understand if it is important in our faith and in our actions and in this thing that we call life, when we do it together with other people? I ask that you be centered in my words today and that you would calm any anxiousness and you would be very clear of the message that you're trying to send out to the people that have ears to hear. We love you, jesus. In your name, we pray Amen.
Speaker 1:So, as I stated, I love this question and I think it's a great follow-up question to Ben's sermon last week, which was do you have enough faith? Personally, I think the two topics go hand in hand Do you have enough faith and do I have to go to church? Not because of the topic itself, but I think that there's a question inside the question, and that's what Ben suggested last week Do I have enough faith? Okay, what do you really mean by that? What's the question behind the question? And when I think of this question, do I have to go to church? I think the same thing. I think there's a lot of questions in that. So do you really mean I want to just stay home? It's Sunday morning. I want to sleep in. I watch online. No offense to you if you're watching online. We think it's great that you're following online, especially if you're out of town. What a gifting for those who are at their cabin or on vacation. They can still follow us along.
Speaker 1:Or do you want to just stay at home in your comfortable pajamas, watching in your favorite chair, drinking your cup of coffee, enjoying your manuha? Do you remember what that is? Ryan taught us a couple of weeks ago that that's the Hebrew word manuha, meaning a place of rest. It's your Sabbath and that's great too, and that's okay.
Speaker 1:I think the question itself is pretty simple Do you have to go to church? And I think the answer could just be yes or no. Now my dad would say to you yes because your mother said so. Now get in the car before somebody takes my pew right. And many of you, as I look out today, are like, yes, I don't want them to take my pew. This is where I always sit, that's where my dad would be. But that question isn't that simple. In fact, I would say it's problematic and creates more questions because of the way the question is constructed.
Speaker 1:Do I have to go to church? I would first ask you what do you mean have to? My dad again would say and this isn't going to be a dad sermon, I promise you have to do two things in life you have to pay your taxes and you have to die. Thank you, you went to school of Mike Pierce. So what do you mean? I have to? Are you suggesting that your faith is null and void if you don't go to church? And if so, does that mean that your Christian membership is revoked in some cosmos, somewhere?
Speaker 1:And then there's the word church. What exactly is meant by the word church? Because I think it can look different to different people. Church is it a place, a room like this, with a gathering of people? Does your church have to consist of liturgy and an altar and a cross and candles? Or can your church be on a Friday night, perhaps at Buffalo Wild Wings, with a group of friends over good hot spicy wings and your favorite beverage? Or a book club with your favorite Chardonnay? Or is your church maybe a mountain, hiking up with your favorite friends, your favorite people, or just you and God?
Speaker 1:Do you see how this question is a loaded one? And despite the question's problematic nature, the pondering is very real, because many people question that is their church attendance necessary for them to have a relationship with Jesus and their life after death? Does the Bible say that we must go to church to live a life of faith or to be Christ followers? Do we have to go to church to be allowed to get into heaven? Now, that is a question that I could dive into, because I can't help but wonder if many of us have thought that same thing, and to that I would say the answer is a quick no and yes. No, church attendance is not necessary to live an active life of faith, and nowhere in the Bible does it say or you are commanded to go to church, but also, yes, church attendance is necessary to live an active life of faith, and everywhere in the Bible it is suggested that you attend a church to have an active life. Confusing I know, but both are very true. No and yes is your answer today. You're welcome. Now let's go to Perkins. I think Jack Orth is going to buy pancakes for everybody and Ryan won't know the difference because he's in Tanzania. Right? Do I have to go to church? No and yes. No, it is not necessary.
Speaker 1:And when we twist the words of God or scripture to make ourselves or others feel that it is necessary to attend a community of faith that we call church, we mistakenly assume that it is necessary to attend a community of faith that we call church. We mistakenly assume that it is something we must do to earn a place in God's kingdom. And to that I would argue my favorite scripture, which is from Ephesians 2, verses 8 through 10. This verse is from 8 through 9. For it is by grace that we are saved, through faith, and this is not of ourselves. It is a gift from God, not by our works, not by anything that we do not, by being here on Sunday morning, sitting in your favorite pew, and it is nothing to boast about. It's not okay for us to come and say look at me, does everybody see me here? I'm here. Do I get my tally mark? Do I earn a place in heaven?
Speaker 1:That thought is man-made, along with many other rules and stipulations in religious organizations that tend to cripple people who want to grow in faith. But they stumble in the muck of the rules which started way back in biblical times, when countless rules and regulations dictated how Jewish men and women lived faithfully before God. This involved everything for them, from what to eat, who to associate with, where to be on certain days, when do you work. And Jesus, the scoundrel that he was, broke the rules and encouraged others to do so as well from time to time, because he knew the way to his father's heart was not about rules, it was about relationships. Spiritual activities, no matter how well-meaning, always run the risk of obstructing our connection with Jesus when they become ends to themselves.
Speaker 1:Going to church for church's sake does little for our spiritual growth and can work negatively against us if done for the wrong reason. It's kind of like going to gym if you don't actually work out right, you can look the part, you can wear the wristbands and the headbands and the tube socks, but if you're not lifting the weights and actually working out, you're not going to see physical results and it's just a facade. Going to church to be seen and playing the part is a facade as well, and eventually the world sees that and plays the hypocrisy card. Or perhaps you play that card on yourself. What am I doing here? Why am I here? What is the purpose?
Speaker 1:And pretty soon church attendance drops off, which is an active wave this nation has been struggling with for half of a century, which is an active wave this nation has been struggling with for half of a century. In 1950, 59% of American households attended some sort of religious organization weekly 59% according to the Pew Research Center. And today 20% of Americans report that they attend church weekly, 41% report that they attend once a month and 57% of Americans are seldom or never in religious services annually. And since the pandemic four years ago. New Gallup polls report another 4% decline for in-person worship. Sad, isn't it, as I believe these statistics coincide with the fall of family values and the rise in social challenges such as violent crime, substance abuse, mental health concerns and environmental issues.
Speaker 1:So do we have to go to church? No, but does it offer a place in our lives where we are called to be the kind of people that will heal a broken world? Yes, absolutely. If we want to live an active Christian life that will feed not only us but others in this world, then the answer, astoundingly, is yes. If we want to be more like Jesus, then we are to gather in a temple with people doing this thing called church and living out our faith just as he did.
Speaker 1:Often, he was found in the temple or on a hillside, gathered with his friends, and this is significant, given the fact that Jesus is the only person on earth who could justifiably live his spiritual life alone. He didn't need a community of faith to meditate his relationship with his Father, and yet he gathered a community around him. He lived his faith in the company of others and he attended worship at the temple. And why? Because he knew the blessings of the church community. He knew that when one of us is sick, we are called to gather together and to pray around one another. He knew that when one of us strays, we are called together to confess our sins to each other, to pray over each other, to hold each other accountable. He knew and he taught that we need to spur one another to do good deeds and to lead this life, this world, in love. He knew that when we encourage each other to meet, then together we will grow in our faith. He knew the word of his father and the importance of community in our spiritual lives, from the opening movement in Genesis, as God creates all beings to coexist together and to care for one another, to the end of times, when we are called to live in the kingdom eternally together. He knew we grow in our faith with others and when we don't, then we scatter, as our Luke reading shared for us today that Jamie shared Whoever is not with me is against me and whoever does not gather with me scatters.
Speaker 1:This parable, both found in Matthew and Luke, illustrates that people cannot remain neutral. He is saying to us wholeheartedly we need to commit, and if we don't, then you will be like the person who is temporarily cleansed by demons, but because that person does nothing to fill his life with better things, he becomes possessed even worse by demons. Sound familiar? It's kind of like trying to wean yourself or break yourself of the habit of being on social media or your phone or Facebook or Twitter. Right, you open it up. It's like I'm just going to scroll one time today. I'm just going to be fed by one thing, and then another reel pops up, and another reel pops up, and another and another, and hours have gone by. Right, it's like the person that brings a bag of carrots to work and a protein drink, claiming that the diet starts today because the doctor said my cholesterol is high, I need to lose some weight. And then it's donut Thursday at the church and you walk by the resource room. I'm like I'm just going to grab a donut and then another and another.
Speaker 1:But it's also like the addict who goes to treatment for 10 days and then falls back into substance abuse because he didn't put into practice the tools that he needed to stay clean. Or the criminal that goes to jail but falls back into crime when released because it's all she knows and rehab just wasn't making sense to her. People want to be clean and we want to be free of demons, but the world often suggests that we stray back into what we know and what is easy, and Jesus is saying in this reading that we need to pick a side. He's saying if you're with me, cool, great, let's do life together. And if you're not, then you will fall away, you will scatter and the demons win. And then we find ourselves isolating and living secret lives and going down rabbit holes that are not of him, assuming the worst in people and in situations and hanging out in places that are of this world and surely not of his kingdom, places where Satan seeps in and we can then scatter from Jesus and the plans that he has for us. Satan seeps in and we can then scatter from Jesus and the plans that he has for us. So do you have to go to church? No, but does going to church benefit you Absolutely? The kingdom he created for us and calls us to be a part of is one that is healthy and prosperous and good. In fact, being involved in a church will add years to your life. It's true. On an average, people who frequently attend religious gatherings live eight years longer than those who do not. And all the moms in the room said yes, I was right. The Center of Spirituality and Theology of Duke University and Professor Harold Connick found religious service attendants had risk reductions in many areas of lives and in this study they found 29% reduced risk of depression, 33% reduced risk of death, 50% reduced risk of divorce and 84% reduced risk of suicide, not to mention less substance abuse, greater support, greater meaning to life, more volunteering and greater civic duty engagement compared to those who never attend a religious service. And why? Because we're cool people and we know how to care for one another. We know how to love one another and support one another.
Speaker 1:The church is not beneficial because it's a church. It's beneficial because, when we become immersed in a community of support and encouragement, challenge and ministry, it is a place that you can walk into broken and hopefully, you leave with hope and excitement. It is a place where we commune together and we find connection. It is a place where we engage in higher experiences to meaning and purpose. And when I have a purpose and a meaning, I want to live, and I want to live well. As humans, we are meaning-making creatures who long for purpose, and when we find it, it shapes our outlook on life. And, as Christ followers, the meaning in our making is to be kingdom builders. And if we do that well, if we build our kingdom well, this earthly kingdom then will be a better place when we leave it than when we entered it. This is what the first church in our Acts reading was all about. That Jamie shared with us A church and a people that are devoted to teaching and breaking bed together. It is a church and a place where believers meet and share with those that have a need, in a temple and in homes, and a church that cares for one another and enjoys each other's favor. Even if we don't see eye to eye in all aspects of the life, we are to be a church and a people that support and love one another, that respects and redirects and guides one another in the good and in the bad.
Speaker 1:Going to church may not always be easy or enjoyable. You might look across the aisle, even today, and see someone that challenges you in your life, in your political views, in your work ethic. And that's okay, because, as Christ followers, when we gather together, we follow a God that looks across the aisle and says I love you enough to agree and to disagree with you. And, as Christ followers that gather, we know that here or wherever we gather because church can be in many places we are safe together, we are whole, we are loved and we are authentic in who we are when we are together. Central, we're going to be walking out the doors pretty soon, leaving this building that we call a church into the mission field and that's what I call the outside world.
Speaker 1:And I want to challenge you with this question and I want you to ponder it for the next few days or hours or weeks to come why do you go to church? Do you feel like you have to go or do you come for another reason? Is it the message, the people, the community? Is it the smaller groups that you connect, maybe outside, in the lobby or in house churches or journey groups that Peter will talk about in a little bit inside the big church, is it that? Is it because your mom told you you have to go? Whatever your answer is, then I challenge you to take that story and to share it with others. Your story is important. Our stories are important, especially if we're going to be doing the kingdom work of bringing others into this thing we call faith and into this thing that we call church.
Speaker 1:I shared my story earlier with the kids.
Speaker 1:It was pretty spot on.
Speaker 1:I left a lot of darkness out of it.
Speaker 1:The basic story is that I grew up in a broken home. I didn't feel very loved, but when I walked into this place in Iowa and then again in Minnesota and then as I grow up to be an adult, every time I walk in this place I focus on the things that I was taught as a young child. That gave me safety and healing and comfort, and it was a cross that I focus on often, even on a Sunday morning. When I'm worshiping here, I kind of get in my own zone and I focus on that cross. Nothing else matters. The people don't matter around me, but yet they do matter, because my church is my community. It's my people as well, and as a little child that was broken. There was a lot of peace, and comfort in Jesus' light and in the cross, and all the promises that I was taught as I grew up. So what's your story? I'm going to invite my friend Peter to come up and share his story and then we're going to move into worship time and an offering time.
Speaker 2:Thank you, sonia. A few years ago I was living my life minding my own business. Things were smooth for me. I was gainfully employed, my family was attending a church regularly. That was our church home. My wife was on staff there and I was an active volunteer. So I knew the staff members well and things were good.
Speaker 2:And then God, out of the clear blue sky, drops an idea into my brain. He said discipleship. I said okay, is there anything more to that? And God was silent. He was quiet. I said okay. Well, what do you want me to do with that? What am I looking for? And he said don't worry about it. I'm a worrier. I worried about it, but I tried to trust God. I took that idea, I put it in my pocket and I kept living my life.
Speaker 2:Sometime later I got called into an unscheduled meeting at work with my boss and that happens from time to time. No big deal. But I got to the meeting and there was a representative of human resources sitting in the room with my boss and they let me go. And I wasn't quite as upset as I thought I might be. I thought maybe this is a good thing, maybe this is great timing it was two weeks before Christmas, by the way but God put that word discipleship back in my head and I thought maybe this is a door opening. So I drafted up a proposal for a discipleship pastor job position and I presented it to the pastor of my church and I said you guys need a discipleship pastor position. And I presented it to the pastor of my church and I said you guys need a discipleship pastor and I'm your top candidate. What do you think? He said interesting, interesting, that's an interesting idea. I don't think we're going to do that. No, but thanks for the suggestion. And so I said okay, god, I guess that's not what you had in mind. I was offered a different job with the church said okay, god, I guess that's not what you had in mind. I was offered a different job with the church and this time, god, instead of being silent, he spoke up right away and he said no, you're not going to take that job. I said okay, I choose unemployment and obedience. Thanks God, that's great Things worked out.
Speaker 2:I got another job, but sometime later my wife and I decided to leave that church. So then we were without a church home, which is tough, but we were getting together with a few other married couples and their kids on Sunday mornings and having brunch together, and then we'd send the kids off to play and we'd sit around the table sipping our coffee and we'd read the Bible, we'd pray together, we'd share our struggles in life with each other, we got vulnerable, we encouraged one another. Hey, I remember I went through what you're going through a couple years back. Let me tell you what I learned, and it was a wonderful time. My faith grew in kind of a different way than it sometimes does in a Sunday morning in a church building and I thought, man, I wish I could have the best of both worlds. I wish I could have a church home and this other thing, this fellowship where we're growing each other in faith.
Speaker 2:Well, some more time goes by and my wife and I we find Central Lutheran Church. We start attending and we looked at each other and we said this is it, this is our church home and we're very glad to be here. And as the weeks went on, I realized that one of the great things about Central Lutheran Church wasn't up here on the stage or over there, great as those things are it was out here sitting in the pews, because my wife and I we'd made some friends and we'd get together outside of church not on a Sunday morning and we'd talk about life. And it was wonderful. And now I do have the best of both worlds I've got church on Sunday morning and I've got fellowship during the week with good and trusted Christian friends.
Speaker 2:So a few months ago Ryan approaches me and he says hey, at Central Lutheran we have this thing called life groups. There are journey groups in our house churches. They meet outside of the church, not on Sunday morning. It's a time of fellowship. We need a director for that. What do you think? I said well, the last time a pastor offered me a job at a church, god told me to say no. So I'll give that some thought and get back to you.
Speaker 2:But then God put that word discipleship back in my head and I realized that those brunch church sessions could be those journey groups and those house churches, that the fellowship could be us co-discipling each other and encouraging each other and growing each other in faith.
Speaker 2:And so I said yes, and here I am and I'm very excited about it. And I'm excited for you guys, if you're not a part of a journey group or a house church yet and you feel like maybe God is saying you should join one of those, maybe you should start one of those or host one of those. The opportunity is there. I'll be at a table out in the lobby after the sermon and I hope you'll come talk to me about it. It's not a commitment. I just take down your contact info and then I'll reach out later with some more information for you about that, and I do hope that you'll consider it, because I know that it's been such a blessing to my family and to me. Let's pray Jesus. Thank you for church, thank you for fellowship and discipleship, thank you for people who are willing to be vulnerable and share struggles and encourage one another, and thank you that you created us to be a part of a community. I pray that you would bless us this morning and this day and this week as we go out. Amen.
