Your Marketing Will Fail Without The Right Technology, Contentful Takeover at MAD//FEST #43

4 words no marketer ever wants to hear...'Your marketing will fail' 😨

We are back with another MEGA instalment of the Marketing In The Madness podcast, but this week you might notice something a little different...

That's right we're at MAD//Fest 2024 and in honour of our exciting partnership with MAD//Fest and their Female Leaders Club our branding has had a little makeover - so for the next couple of weeks, we are officially 'Marketing In The MAD//Fest' 😍

We're kicking off our collaboration series with our all-time favourite, Laura Thornley, EMEA Field
Marketing Leader at Contentful, Vodafone's Software Engineering Manager, Ana-Maria Pasparan and Danielle Bramley, Digital Operations Lead at Costa Coffee. 

This episode sees us breaking down the importance of getting it right when it comes to technology in marketing and helping you get it right because no one wants to hear 'your marketing WILL fail. It is jam-packed with key takeaways and insightful discussions on how technology advancements, particularly through Contentful, are revolutionising marketing strategies for leading brands such as Vodafone, Costa Coffee and the wider Coca-Cola Company.

Ana-Maria and Danielle, share their personal experiences and strategies for integrating technology and marketing, emphasising the importance of flexibility, speed and collaboration between engineering and marketing teams to enhance customer experience. Something they both agree is all possible with their partner Contentful. 

So, what are you waiting for? Tune in now to get exclusive insights into how these industry leaders are getting bold in their respective fields and driving innovation through synergy between tech and marketing.

And remember, without the right technology your marketing will FAIL 😱

Katie Street
https://www.linkedin.com/in/katiestreet/
https://www.instagram.com/streetmate/

Street Agency
https://street.agency/
https://www.instagram.com/street.agency/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/streetagency/

Transcript

0:00

Hey, guys, and welcome back to another episode of Marketing in the Madness. Now, as you may see behind me, if you're watching and not just listening, we are not actually called Marketing in the Madness anymore. For the next few weeks, there are some very special episodes coming because we are live backstage in the Female Leaders Club at MADFest. So at the moment, we are called Marketing in the MADFest rather than Marketing in the Madness. So there's going to be a few special episodes coming at you. So this being one of them, which I really hope you enjoy, we're going to be uncovering not just the marketing innovations that get us further, but also the cultural innovations that need to happen to get women ahead at work. The theme of MADFest is being bold. In your world, you don't want us marketers to completely go rogue. We like to do things differently. And we like to have products that enable us to have that creativity. Within Vodafone, we took the time at the beginning of this journey to really speak with the marketing team and understand the needs they have. So we build those models in Contentful. It's a product that's really liked by engineers because it's flexible, but it's loved by marketing because of the speed. Technology and marketing are one of the same, especially in digital, you can't do one without the other. It's not just having the tools in place to do that. It's the end vision of one goal, and that's the customer experience. Last year, we actually had the most successful year. For a new product launch, we were the only website up and standing to take orders for that product. And that's really important. If you are out there, the first minute the product gets out, all the customers will come to you. We took it off the menu about two years ago, and there was rioting, obviously. So we have now brought it back. It's loud and proud. Christmas starts for us at Costa in January. It's a growing ecosystem of digital products, and it's a complex process to get that from the brand vision. We need the tools in place to be able to innovate and deliver brand message and the brand products, but then also if we need to tailor that into digital solutions and an engagement. I think what's super clear now is actually marketing cannot exist without technology, that technology sits behind everything we do. And if you're not using world-class, cutting-edge technology that enables you to do the things that you need quickly, one of your competitors is going to get ahead. Hi, guys, and welcome to another Marketing in the Madness takeover that's kind of a double takeover because not only are we today marketing in the MadFest, because we are live at MadFest, but this is a contentful takeover of Marketing in the MadFest because they've just been on stage talking about how to scale your content using some very clever technologies, like Contentful, of course, and interviewing two amazing women who, I mean, why wouldn't we have all women in the female leaders bar at MadFest? So I'm going to shut up for once and pass you over to the lovely Laura from Contentful who is going to introduce our guests for today's podcast. Thank you very much. Yeah, I'm very, very excited to be with you guys today. So in today's fast-paced, dynamic world, we need to ensure that we're delivering content extremely rapidly and that, you know, customer experience is superior. So how do we do that? Well, you do that with, you know, great emerging tech that can support you in that journey. So super delighted to be with you guys today. If you could just quickly introduce yourself and talk specifically maybe about how your role relates to the content strategy within your organization. Yeah, sure. I'm Ana Maria Pasparan and I work for Vodafone as an Engineer Manager. I've got kind of two roles, like I work with one team that is building those tools that marketing is using to deliver that content, and I work with another team that's actually using those tools to put that content in front of our customers. So really from like two perspectives, from building the tools and actually using those tools to get there with the content. And yeah, I'm Danielle Bramley. I'm a Global Digital Operations Lead for Costa Coffee. I'm very much a Content Manager at heart, and we use Contentful to manage and execute campaigns at pace across many digital screens and solutions and products enabled by the tech team, which Ana works into, of course, in Vodafone. But yeah, we have a very close relationship with our technology team and marketing. So I do sit within product and marketing, but yeah, the relationship with technology is probably closer, I'll be honest with. Amazing. So yeah, thank you so much. What excites me is we have two very, very different industry sectors and two very, very different job titles. But I think, you know, it just demonstrates that content is king. And regardless of the fact that, you know, you both have very, very different day-to-day roles, it really doesn't matter. You're kind of working together for the same outcome, and that is to, you know, deliver that great customer experience. So I'm going to come to you first, Danielle. Costa has been around for over 50 years, and the way that you communicate to your consumers becomes ever more complex. You know, you've got the app, you've got loyalty programs, you've got websites, you've got signage, and within the coffee stores themselves, you've got the Costa Express machine. So that's a huge amount of channels to manage. How do you manage that, and how do you rely on people like Ana within your own team to kind of give you the tools to run with it and do great things? Yeah, so it's a growing ecosystem of digital products, and it's a complex process to get that from the brand vision down to the right channel. And each product has its own nuances and different requirements that are needed to be able to deliver the right message, and also a personalized message as well. So it really depends on the channel. So in my world as a content manager, consistency is key, and we obviously need the right tools that are robust, that we can trust, and that also we can scale. So we take one model, that might be for our websites, and then learn from that, and then adapt it to our apps, and then take it to our Express machines. And ultimately, it's about that centralization, not only just from technology, but content as well, because the brand message needs to be there, and it needs to be consistent. But we need a robust technology behind that to be able to deliver it and ensure that anybody can pick that tool up and take a message out there and get it to the right audience. So, yeah, it is complex, but yeah, with the right tools and team behind that, it's a secure place where we can deliver what the ultimate brand message is and then serve it to the audience and the customer. Thank you very much. So, , the theme of MadFest is being bold. I guess, you know, in your world, you don't want us marketers to completely go rogue. You know, we like to be bold, we like to do things differently, and we like to, you know, have products that enable us to have that creativity, but, you know, have some parameters in place as well to ensure that there's brand consistency across. So talk to me more about that. Yeah, so within Vodafone, we took the time at the beginning of this journey to really speak with the marketing team and understand the needs they have, give them enough flexibility to have that creative part, but also align those models we build or those like templates with our vision and our standards from Vodafone. So we build those models in Contentful, which is really helpful because they are like really composable, and we build them in a way that the marketing can come in and choose what they want to have on the website in terms of the content, you know, how much or how little of that content they want to have in a really flexible way within our standards, but giving them the flexibility to choose what they want to do with that. So, again, taking that time, communicate from the beginning and really thinking about that and then evolving, always working together to really evolve those models. So really not just building those models, but like how you can give them the tools to play with that. And that's the point. Yeah, I love it. Thank you. So we're in the UK, so I can talk about Christmas in July because we've been caught out in the rain, haven't we, today at various points. I want to talk about seasonality of content. So, you know, when I think about that, obviously there are many different themes that you have across the year, but, you know, arguably Christmas has got to be one of those biggest ones. So, you know, I think about you at Costa, Danielle, with the Christmas coffees that we all get super excited about when they launch. And obviously, you know, with the launch of new handsets, you know, I'm assuming that a lot of planning goes into that process. So from an engineering perspective, you know, you have to really think hard about how you can support the teams to just get that content out quickly. And, Danielle, you know, content and media planning must take months and months and months. So talk to me, Danielle, about that and how at Costa you plan for those those seasonal spikes. Yeah, so it does take a heck of a lot of planning. Christmas starts for us at Costa in January and it starts with our brand team and the media planning and the market research. And we have our staple products, but we also like to refine that and introduce new products. So from end to end, it starts in January. The planning and the refinement of the campaign is there, but then it hits my world and digital in July. So about now. So, yeah, we need the tools in place to be able to innovate and deliver the brand message and the brand products. But then also if we need to tailor that into digital solutions and an engagement products and a big part of Costa is our loyalty program. So it's about engaging the customers that we already have, but then acquiring new new customers as well. So it's really about tailoring the message and as I said before, getting it out there to the right audience and the right demographic and just giving them something valuable and something that resonates with them. It's very competitive out there, especially in coffee and loyalty programs. So, yeah, it's really about tuning into who is a Costa Club member and who could possibly be a Costa Club member. So, yeah, connecting that ultimate message, but fine tuning it to the right channel. So once you're an app member, you're a Costa Club member, but you might not be yet. So it needs to go on the express machine. It needs to go on the website and in-store as well. And it all needs to be consistent and centralized into one platform to be able to execute at pace and that is using Contentful. So it's a great tool. And if we need to refine it for a particular campaign, say if we've got a gamification product on the way, then we work with the tech team to take requirements on the business and then execute that and deliver it in a way that's right for that channel. So you're still getting the campaign. It's consistent, but it's a new and interesting way, depending on what's your preferred product to use. So, yes. I love that. Thank you. And I guess, you know, with some of these campaigns, I assume there's some things that change along the way, but predominantly, you know, your Christmas campaigns, for example, do you kind of have your box of tricks within Contentful that don't need to change up constantly and then don't require additional kind of, you know, resource to ensure that you can execute on that? Yes, we do. We do. And it's a really interesting question because we have tried and tested. I mean, I've been with CrossFit for six years now, so that's six Christmases. And we do are able, as said earlier, we have those templates ready to go that we optimize each campaign and monitor and our data team feedback and we look at the engagement metrics. But then we take those learnings and give them out to our regions and they learn from us as well. And then they go and take that template, those components that are tried and tested. We know they're going to deliver results, whether that's a call to action in the right place, even the right color. So, yeah, it's all one team, but ultimately, we can, you know, it sounds so simple, but the press of the button, deliver a template that we know works in the UK to, say, Spain or Germany, and they can then do that and localize it. So, yeah, there are some things that we have in our back pocket and then we have some things that we try new things and see what works and what doesn't. But ultimately, yeah, we lean on tools that we've got in our back pocket to educate markets as well. Wonderful. Thanks for explaining that. And so coming to you, , from an engineering perspective, how do you kind of plan for these seasonal spikes and, you know, enable your marketers like Danielle to go and do great things? Yeah. So let me take you back a few years in Vodafone and explain where we started. We had a full team of engineering preparing for six months in one room for three campaigns, one consecutively after another one. So in September, and then we've got like a big product launch, then we've got Black Friday coming in and then Christmas immediately after, and at Christmas, most of the engineers take time off. So you don't have that support around that. So we really just sit down with our marketing team and try to understand like all these campaigns, what's the planning that goes in to try to understand what are the timelines they work towards and looked into what are those blocks of tools they really need to build these campaigns and really broke it down to the smallest one. So we went from that point where we were like working six months to this year, where we only had to put in two weeks of work from engineering just to add an extra block on top of what we already have built just to give those tools. So now instead of like spending six months, we spend two weeks maybe just to, you know, just evolve that technology we've got. And not only from those blocks of building the content, from engineering point of view, we need to think about availability. It's not just getting the content out there, but if you have a big marketing campaign and the website or the app is not live, it doesn't matter how big and how good the campaign is. So we need to think about like availability of the content. And with Contentful, it gives us a lot of flexibility on integrating it at the larger scale. I think this is kind of what we really like about Contentful is giving engineers the way of expanding and really like thinking at the large scale. So now, last year, we actually had the most successful year for a new product launch. We were the only website up and standing to take orders for that product. And that's really important. If you are out there, the first minute the product gets out, all the customers will come to you. That's really important. So availability and those building blocks. Amazing. And you told me a story earlier on. I'm going to ask you to retell it because I love it. Share that story about when the team from Voxy have come to you with a particular set of requirements. Yeah. So with Voxy, when I started working with the Voxy team, the marketing team wasn't really a fan of the engineering team, mainly because Voxy had all the content in the code. So they had to ask an engineer to go and change that content all the time. So one day after we start integrating Contentful from a technical point of view, because we've seen it working in Vodafone, we've got one request for one of the marketing team. So one of the legal copies needs to change urgently because it was no longer within the legal parameters. So I was like, okay, what do we need to do? They were asking. What engineers do we need to take on board? And I was like, actually, I can show you how you can do it yourself. And they were like, okay, wait, what? So just open the website from Contentful, give them access so they can change the copy, they press the button, publish, in one minute it was on the website. And they practically, since then, they love it so much, they're asking me, every project we are building, they're asking me, can we put it in Contentful? Can we make sure we integrate it with Contentful? And it's such a big change for them because they can drive those campaigns from their side. And for Voxy, it's really important to have this flexibility and speed because we are addressing with Voxy a young public, the students, they change so quick, I can't believe it. They change their mind. They want one thing now. They want something else next day. And it's really important to have the flexibility and speed with Contentful. I think that's why now it's so good for the marketing team. And at the end of the day, I think, for Contentful to be, it's a product that's really liked by engineers because it's flexible, but it's loved by marketing because of the speed. I think that's the important thing. Yeah. And it's just, it's amazing to hear about that synergy between the two and, you know, what excites me, I mean, working for Contentful, but it is seeing that, you know, it's a product that really does suit from an engineering perspective, but also marketing. So we've got a marketing audience for this podcast. So I want to just dig in quickly into, firstly to you, Danielle, like, what do you need from engineering to really help you to continue to be successful moving forwards? Yeah. So I think going back to 's story just now, that's an absolutely perfect example of where 's team really does, you know, support us and offer the solutions that we might not have any sight of. And it's about the trust between the two teams. We obviously need to take the business requirements and the vision and give that to the tech team to build the tools that are able to support us and to deliver the message. But actually, that delivering of the message, the responsibility there is for both departments. It's not just the marketing's responsibility, and it's not just having the tools in place to do that. It's the end vision of one goal, and that's the customer experience, and you can get that from both avenues. So yeah, I think it's interesting just hearing 's story there about how a simple requirement can just pay so much efficiency within a department that it then opens up other doors, and you just don't know what the possibility is until you speak to each other and you collaborate and you communicate. And yeah, I think technology and marketing are one of the same, especially in digital. You can't do one without the other. And so it's a very close collaboration for sure. Absolutely. And you, , what do you need from marketing to help you be successful in your role? I think I totally agree, Daniel. Like, trust is at the base of everything. What you also said, collaboration is really important, and I think honest feedback is really important, because once you build that trust, you can actually give that honest feedback, and then that's when you can ask for more features. Like with the marketing team and Boxy, it was quite funny, because at the beginning they were like not asking for anything, because they didn't know what are the possibilities. And as soon as they start asking or saying they need the X and Y, and we deliver on those asks, we just open the door of honest communication and honest feedback. And they just open the door to really innovate and think about what other tools to bring on for them to do their job great, for us to support them. And at the end of the day, it's all about the customer, right? Whether it's marketing, whether it's tech, whether it's other departments, brand, at the end of the day, it's the customer experience that counts, because we are delivering for our customers. So really working together, that collaboration is really important, because the customer is the one we need to target. Fantastic. Thank you very much to both of you. Yeah, I'm just really excited to kind of see the two functions come together. And I think, you know, my key takeaway is that, you know, the two functions from an engineering perspective, from marketing, you know, they really coexist together to enhance customer experience. So thank you very much for your time today. Guys, you were bloody awesome. It's been really weird, like sitting here and not talking, I was like, I want to ask some questions. But you know what I've loved is, I mean, I've spent my entire career in marketing, in sales, like working with digital agencies, working with, well, building websites for some of the biggest companies. In fact, we used to... One of my agencies used to work with Vodafone many, many moons ago. I think what's super clear now is actually, you know, marketing cannot exist without technology. Like technology sits behind everything we do. And if you're not using world class, cutting edge technology that enables you to do the things that you need quickly, one of your competitors is going to get ahead. So I just think the collaboration between both of you guys, I know you're in totally separate businesses, but just the understanding of, you know, I think there used to be like a very big separation between tech teams and marketing. Now it is one team. And I think that's really interesting and the magic and the amazing, well, beautiful stories that you both have about the amazing things you've achieved as businesses is just awesome. Can I ask two cheeky questions? I mean, you're probably not going to answer them, but I'm going to ask them anyway. New Costa flavors coming out, anything, any like Christmas, Halloween releases, something that we can get excited about that you're allowed to tell us without my PR team making... My PR team? Your PR team getting really cross with us. Hints. Well, Christmas is all about surprises, so I'm not sure I can explain. No, yeah. I don't know. I might get you in a lot of trouble, yeah. But we do have one, what's quite an interesting story is our Black Forest hot chocolate, which is a cult favorite. For some reason, we decided to try something different and we took it off the menu about two years ago and there was rioting, so we have now brought it back. It's loud and proud and that, yeah, Black Forest will feature very strongly in our future campaign. So I can tell you that. Amazing. I love it. And Vodafone, I mean, I've got a million things I want to ask you. Any ideas about what's happening with the next iPhone? Anything you know or any rumors you've had? We know it's not going to change too much from the user point of view. There will be some new features, but not a major change as it was hinted initially at the beginning of the year, but what we are preparing is like an amazing offer on the new iPhone, which we can't wait to get to the site. Too contentful. So, yeah, just keep your eyes out there for what's coming up. We don't know the other days. Usually September, right? In my head, it's like the new iPhone's out in September. So I'm going to be keeping a keen eye on the Vodafone website in September. Please do. Will be available. Yes. Two exclusives there. I know. Look at that. I've got my questions answered. I'm super happy. Thank you for joining. It's been awesome to have you guys and an amazing takeover. Thank you very much. Hey, guys. Me again. I hope you enjoyed the episode that you've just listened to. And if you did, I'm going to do the, you know, the annoying thing that all podcasters do, which is go and ask you to subscribe because it really does make a difference to our rankings. And leave a comment. Give us a five star review if you did love it. If you want to get in touch, do check out the email address in the show notes. Most importantly, again, if you're on YouTube, please subscribe by clicking the button somewhere on the screen. And it'll mean you get notified when new episodes go live.