Board With Each Other
A podcast that looks at Board Games / Tabletop Gaming through the lens of playing as a couple or with a regular gaming partner. Hosted by Al & Hannah, We review a game each episode.
Board With Each Other
Episode 00: Session 0 - Who ARE These People?
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Welcome to Board With Each Other, the monthly podcast which reviews tabletop games through the lens of playing as a couple or with a regular two player gaming buddy.
On this special episode, we explain what the podcast is, who we are in terms of our likes and dislikes and our relationship with the hobby. It's different to our usual format, and definitely optional but if you want to get to know us a bit better this is the best place to start!
Hello everybody, and welcome to Board with Each Other, the uh tabletop gaming podcast that looks at gaming through the lens of playing as a pair. So that whether that's with your partner, a good friend, or a sentient goldfish you managed to buy from somewhere, whatever your setup is. I'm joined today, as ever, by my wife, my player two, and my board gaming companion and co-host, Hannah Kelly. Say hello, Hannah.
SPEAKER_00Hi.
SPEAKER_01Um, I think what we wanted to kind of do today with this episode, this sort of a special episode. It kind of comes from the world of um tabletop RBGs, where you have a concept of something called a session zero. And it's basically just to kind of lay out what the the podcast is, uh sort of introduce ourselves and who we are as gamers. I know a lot of this is very, very subjective, but you might start to get a little bit of a feel about whether your tastes will align with either of ours, because we do have different tastes. Um and just sort of lay out the format of the podcast and how we're going to do it week on week. Well, I say week on week, we'll get to that in uh in in in due course. And if that's something that doesn't really take your fancy, you're not interested in. We do have content up right away, so you can feel free to jump into our first proper episode, which will be on Marvel Champions. So I guess to start things off, uh we should just really introduce ourselves and who we are as gamers and what our relationship with gaming is. So I've talked for long enough. Hannah, would you like to talk a little bit about who you are and what your relationship with tabletop gaming has been?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so I guess, you know, um my first look at tabletop gaming, a bit like most people really, was as a kid. Um I was an only child, so really my experience of board gaming was trying to rope my parents into playing with uh with me. Um and mum was always a Clio fan. Uh I was always a Monopoly fan, however, Monopoly always ended up in World War III in our family because my dad always felt that we were ganging up on him and it wasn't okay to trade properties. And after you know, this two-hour-long slog, eventually he would storm off. I would be terribly upset because I'd A probably lost and learning to lose his skill, um, but also knew that I probably wasn't ever gonna be able to play again, like, for at least another two years. Um, and that's kind of really all that I experienced of board gaming until probably you and I met. Although, weirdly, I did a little bit of LARP LARP when I was it. No pegging, laugh when I was about 17. No tabletop RPGs, straight into the live action version.
SPEAKER_01I mean it's a bit of a leap Monopoly to vampire, the masquerade, live action role-playing.
SPEAKER_00Actually, what we did.
SPEAKER_01Yes, I know you have to. Um, but yeah, okay.
SPEAKER_00And then obviously we met and Yeah, and I've got a lot of very fond memories, I think, of playing Magic the Gathering, although that's not technically a board game, in your dad's kitchen, I think, when we first kind of got together.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, okay, alright. Um Bear Bears.
SPEAKER_00My my green and white deck that was filled predominantly with bears.
SPEAKER_01Yes, Hannah's first Magic of the Gathering deck was very bear-heavy. Um so me, um by the way, I'm Al Simpson. I don't think I said my name at the start of the podcast, which is a bit of a rookie mistake. Uh, but uh in a similar vein to Hannah, I while I have many, many half-brothers and sisters, I grew up as an early child, and again, a lot of my early ball game memories was were gaming with my my dad and grandfather who taught me poker and gin rummy at a very young age.
SPEAKER_00Dad taught me gin rummy.
SPEAKER_01Um and then I I grew up in southern Africa and fair few years in Zimbabwe, so quite sort of toy-deprived for quite a while. We didn't we couldn't get hold of ball games or anything like that when I was growing up, until a Australian guy moved to my town and I met him, and he introduced me to the wonderful worlds of Warhammer, Magic the Gathering, and uh DD. And from there, the rest of sort of history has kicked off a pretty much a lifetime obsession with tabletop gaming. I was very, very much into games workshop and um uh Warhammer, Warhammer 40k as a teenager and into my twenties, and I didn't really play sort of your traditional boxed ball games for quite a long time until uh I met Hannah and I I think I walked into a local game shop in central London called the Orcs Nest one day and just on a whim bought a few ball games and that kicked off a hobby and obsession that's been going on for about a decade now, at least. Um so yeah, do you want to tell the listeners a little bit about sort of who you are as a gamer, how how you play, um what are your sort of what are your likes and dislikes about ball games?
SPEAKER_00What do you really look for, what terms are your for games just a little bit about that Yeah, I think I tend to shy away from things that are really cerebral. Um, anything that's really quite thinky because I am known to sit and over-analyse and think about decisions in an awful lot of detail and what that could possibly lead to. So I think about six or seven turns ahead. So anything that's too cerebral, I find quite training, and that doesn't always necessarily fit into what we want as a couple, although they're not necessarily bad games, it's just not necessarily what what I fancy.
SPEAKER_01Can I just jump in there though? I think it's worth mentioning before anybody listens to this and goes, Oh no, it's not gonna like anything complex. It's actually got nothing to do with complexity. I mean, I'm sitting across the table from somebody who probably likes something like Gloomhaven more than I do.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, true.
SPEAKER_01Um so it's not really about complexity. I think I think it's fair to say that you you suffer from a bit of analysis paralysis, so there's some games that sort of really kick that off for you that you don't you you you don't particularly warm to, is that fair to say?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, no, absolutely. And I think uh the way that we board game, um, that's a way for us to have our social and our downtime. So if I'm sat there the entire time just thinking about my own turn, that's just it's it's not it's not so much fun for me, I guess.
SPEAKER_01Or me, yeah, obviously.
SPEAKER_00And I would say as well that I think we do have limited time that we can board game. So we've got a little one, she's still quite little. Yeah. So we have to do it after bed, and certainly she's not around because otherwise she would be getting stuck in.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, she's in that difficult phase where she doesn't know how to read yet. So I'm sure she'll be cracking on with quite a few things when she's a little bit older.
SPEAKER_00Although I swear if we got Gloomaven out, she would give it a crack.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, she probably would. But yeah, I think I think one of our reasons for doing this is is with that situation, we we we have a young child, we both work full time, our gaming time is limited, and it's usually in weekday evenings. Um, you know, the weekends tend to be very thorough, busy, and as I said, the work the rest of the time. And it's that's one of the things that sort of goes into some of our criteria is how how manageable and easy a game is to you know set up and tear down and all that kind of thing. So that that is you know. Um so you say what you don't like, what what do you like in a ball game? What what really turns your crank?
SPEAKER_00So I think if it comes box to fantasy, particularly high fantasy, then I'm probably gonna be in. Um there are games that you've got that are not that are quite um so what was the one about the Cold War?
SPEAKER_01Oh Twilight Struggle.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, definitely I think I struggled with that because it's perhaps more dry as a subject matter, perhaps.
SPEAKER_01Well, it depends on who you ask.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, okay, fair point, fair point.
SPEAKER_01Um You're a massive nerd, basically, don't you say?
SPEAKER_00Um I think I quite like having lots of things that I can do on my turn. I like having that variety, so there are lots of actions that I can take, or there's like a high degree of I feel like I'm making a difference. Um, and I guess it wasn't until we obviously started board gaming that I realised there was a whole such a whole thing as cooperative board games. And whilst I do like competitive elements and I do like up kicking our ass, um I have to say I really like some of those more cooperative games where we're working together.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, fine. Yeah, I know you you are a huge fan of co-ops, aren't you? Our buying choices do tend to lean towards co-op.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, they do.
SPEAKER_01So I do try and balance out a little bit, they do do lean towards co-op.
SPEAKER_00So what about you?
SPEAKER_01So um I think theme is important for me. Um I think it's less about it being a particular theme. I just I like I like games that have a bit of a theme and a bit of a story to them. I find it fires my imagination in a way that something a bit more abstract or dry would. Although I do like the old abstract game, I I do tend to get a bit more excited about something that I can uh sort of relate to in my head while I'm playing. Um in terms of likes and dislikes, there's not a huge amount of things that that I dislike, to be fair. I I I tend to be a bit more of the general optimist around ball games than I think Hannah is. I tend to find something that I enjoy in in most of them. But but you could turn that on his head and say I'm a bit less discerning, so take that as you will. Um I I do have a real sense of fairness in both competitive and co-op games. I feel if the game is intrinsically unfair or there's an element that's unfair that will put me off. Um I also, oddly enough, for the board game community, I think these days, I actually quite like a bit of randomness in my games. Um I know this that you know that there's this real move towards really thinky, strategic, super balanced games. I have a thing for a bit of jank and a bit of random, um, which I'm sure you'll hear will come out in these podcasts as we do them.
SPEAKER_00Is that something you can blame losing on the luck?
SPEAKER_01Partly. Well, I mean, I think if if there's an element you you can, you know, you you can get really scuppered by the randomness, as long as it's sort of a fair randomness, but it also can make for some really epic, amazing moments, you know, something very, very unlikely, but possible can happen. When those moments happen, I find them very, very memorable.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, no, I absolutely agree. I think when you think that you're on a losing streak and there's no way you're gonna win this, but suddenly like starts turning your favour.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, or something just completely, utterly improbable happens. I find that very, very memorable, and that kind of sticks with me. Okay, so I guess the next um topic I wanted to really cover with this was what is this podcast and why should you listen to it? I think through my time on social media and sci-side ball game geek, I I see the the the conversation around is this good for two, does this play well with two? Um come up quite a lot. And I know there's a fair amount of sort of blogs and commentary about that on games around, but I think uh I feel like there's a particular type of sort of ball gaming that you and I do, Hannah, that's very much you know fitting it in when we can around our lives as as parents and as busy professionals.
SPEAKER_00And goes on the professional.
SPEAKER_01Well, yeah, we try to be, but yeah. Um and there's also an element of you know how how does it play with a a partner that you you you you're constantly game with, if that makes sense. So you know there's two players, but then there's the same players playing the same game over and over again, which I think is is is possibly a sort of facet that's not looked at that much.
SPEAKER_00I mean, won't we cover sort of for new relationships and couples that have just sort of got to go on?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean we could bring that element into it, and I think when we get to our scoring criteria, there are elements of our scoring criteria where that will kind of address, I think. Um I mean we don't play only as a as a pair, we do have friends that are into ball games, but just unfortunately they don't live anywhere near us. And again, being being parents of a young child going to sort of ball game groups and meetups and things like that isn't really an option for us. So the vast majority of our gaming is is just the two of us at our dining room table. And I imagine there's fair few people out there in a similar situation that have the same questions that I've asked online, and hopefully with the the this fits that bill with a bit of light entertainment thrown in there. The intention at the moment is to put these out monthly. I think that's a realistic uh turnaround time for us and and how often we can sort of assess games. Um we have a very hard and fast rule that we have to play a game at least six times before we give it a rating. I think the I think six is the magic number that we settled on to decide whether we truly like something or not. And it gives you uh a means to to give you the tools to basically assess it, I think. There will be games that we talk about that we played very, very much more than that, um, which we'll we'll get to in due course with the the individual episodes. And I think we're we're going to have a game per episode focus for the most part. I think as things develop and move on, we may play with that formula a little bit. But for the first sort of set of these, um it'll very much be we'll be talking about a a game a month, really. I guess the next point then is what games will we be looking at? Um I don't think we'll look at games or review games that are designed by their nature to be played with three or more and have some sort of stopgap solution to allow you to play the game regardless, even if there's only two of you. Um although there is one notable exception to that. Uh, and there might be more where there's a fully sort of uh implemented app that allows you to play a three-player game as a two, but for the most part, it'll be games that at least have uh a means and rules for playing with two players. I probably won't have much of a focus on games that are very, very different between playing with three plus and two. I think we'll probably avoid those. Uh the other point to make around us and almost our buying habits is we don't do Kickstarters. Uh it's never really been for us. Uh I'll wait till the game hits retail. I don't like the idea of spending my uh game budget on something that may or may not come out as sort of 18 months. I know that's something a lot of people do love and participate in, but just to put it out there, that's not really our bag. So if you're waiting for reviews on the latest hot new Kickstarter that's come out, uh this probably is not the best place to look for that.
SPEAKER_00Alright, so with all that said, maybe it's time to have a think about our actual rating system. So we're gonna have a two-pronged approach to rating. The first one is about the general game and how it plays, etc. And then there will be a second rating system which is about that couple factor.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, playing as a pair.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, playing as a pair. So under the general category, we've got um components. So I'm sure that's a term many of you familiar with. So that's thinking about what comes in the box, how it looks, um, but also thinking about well, how much space does it take up? You know, we've we've we played our dining room table, is that comfortable and easy, or do we have to pull out additional chairs and tables? Um, the strip down and set up time, which is a huge big thing, I think, for us. There are some games that we absolutely love, but it just takes way too long.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, like just to get to the table hardly ever, which is a factor.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Um anything else under?
SPEAKER_01No, I think you've you've you've covered up pretty well.
SPEAKER_00Yep. Um so then our next one is then complexity. And I think complexity is a tricky one because it's not just about you know how thick and impenetrable the rules are, but also how thick and impenetrable the rule book as it's written.
SPEAKER_01Android and Metron, I'm looking at you.
SPEAKER_00Um thinking about me and my whole analysis paralysis and how much time I spend thinking about what I could possibly do. Um, also, maybe a little bit about how much we argue about what's the legal means.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, true, yeah, there's that aspect of it. And also, I guess you you're talking about ball gaming as potentially a couple. How easy are the rules to explain? You know, you you you're you're dating somebody new and you're date five and you decide to pull out a ball game and it takes you two and a half hours of impenetrable rules. That's going to be a bit of a I don't know about you, but it turns my crank. It's why you better. We're all made different, um, but it it is a factor.
SPEAKER_00Um, so then we have shelf life. Um so the idea behind this is it about value for money, um, how many times you can replay it, how many times you can replay it with the same person, um, and how it kind of stands that test of time.
SPEAKER_01Um yeah, 100%, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Uh and then the last one, probably the most important category, is fun. How much fun do you have when you're playing it? Um, and you talk about emergent storytelling.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean that's quite a big thing, I think, for us, particularly in card games, around the ability of that game to almost fire, as I said earlier, I was talking about theme, fire off your imagination and and and create those sort of storytelling memories, um, which is a big thing for us.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And I think there are games that we absolutely love because of certain things that have happened in this whole world that we built around.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, which I'm sure we'll talk to as we talk to the individual games, but yeah, absolutely. Okay, so I'll I'll take us through sort of the the the couple slash pair rating, however you want to look at it. So the first one uh is around table talk and getting to know you. Um how how do you interact with the other player when the game's at the table? Is there is it one of these games you spend a lot of time sort of doing your own thing and not talking very much? Are you does the game force you to go into direct conflict or interaction? And how much does the game sort of promote a little bit of table talk or or trash talk if that's your thing, you know? How how do how does it promote that interplay between two people? Um the second category is I'd also just add to that in terms of uh maybe maybe you've hit on this about how much downtime that you have.
SPEAKER_00So again, if you have like long periods where the other person is taking their turn and doing things and you're just sat there twiddling your thumbs and playing on your phone.
SPEAKER_01You're absolutely right, because that's really important, particularly I find within within two-player games or playing as two players, because if you've got four people at the table, you can always have a bit of a natter and a chat, and you have a social element while you're waiting for your turn. But if there's just two of you and you're just sat there in silence, it can be a bit of a bit of a downer. Again, this is very subjective depending on what you feel. We all give it a rating for us, but if that's not something that is uh a deal break or important for you, then you know obviously that's fine. Um the next category is either competitiveness or cooperability, if that is a word. And in that we sort of we we assess how competitive the game is, how well it plays as a competitive game within with two people. There are some games where you play as two players and it's incredibly fierce and tight, and there's others where if you play it with only two players, it's it it it's a bit of a damn square, but it doesn't really, you know, you don't you don't really come into that sort of conflict. And the same for co-op. If it's a co-op game, is it such a name only, or do you truly have to work together for uh for you to win the game? Um the final one is scalability, and that is talking about okay, this is this game, as is often the case these days, plays from one to six or one to five. If you play it as a two-player game, do you feel like you're really missing out on what the game really is? And likewise, if you play it a lot as a two-player game and you have people around, can it hit the table and it'd be just as fun with three or four? Or is this very much a two-player experience? And after all that, Hannah and I will go through each of those categories. We'll each give our own individual scores, and then we'll basically average them out, so you'll have a score at the end for the the general score, but you'll also have one for playing as a pair. I think that pretty much covers what we wanted to go through in this episode. Probably a little bit shorter than our usual episodes, but hopefully it gives you sort of a bite-sized chunk of who we are and whether this is something that you want to uh join us on a journey with. As I said earlier, the first episode on Marvel Champions is already up, and I believe the second episode on Scythe should be up as well. And following that, as I said, once a month we will uh bring you a new episode. But in the interim period, we have a Facebook group, we have a Twitter, we have an Insta, so if you want to engage on any of those, we'll pop some fun stuff and some polls and what have you on that. But join the community and join the discussion. I look forward to interacting with you all. Until next time, be good to each other, have fun, and play lots of games.
