Special Episode 01: Star Realms & Codenames Duet - In Space, No One Can Hear You Guess

Alongside our usual monthly content, we will occasionally put out special episodes which either double up some smaller, lighter games, or look at things slightly outside the norm of our usual content (for example old out of print games, board gaming adjacent topics).

In this first of our special bonus episodes, Hannah takes the reigns of hosting duties as we look at two small (but perhaps mighty?) games in the sci-fi deckbuilder Star Realms and the 2 player focused remix of the excellent party game Codenames. We hope you enjoy and see you in two weeks for our regular monthly episode!

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:15

Well, hello, and welcome to Board with Each Other. We're the board gaming podcast that looks at reviewing board games from the lens of a two-player perspective, whether that's your BFF, your significant other, or perhaps an evil scientist who's done some body swap and is trying to road test the successful experiment with a couple of cheeky quick car games with a board game podcast for you. So for those of you who have listened to us before, you'll notice something a little bit different about tonight. Um, tonight we're gonna do a bonus special for you, and because of that, I am going to be your host. So I am Hannah Kelly, and I'm joined by your usual ever faithful, apart from perhaps not for tonight, host Al Simpson.

SPEAKER_02 0:56

Hi everybody.

SPEAKER_00 0:57

Um so what we decided was that there were a couple of games that we kind of want to review that didn't fit into our normal review space. Maybe that's because they're too small, um, or perhaps, for example, they're out-of-print games that we felt that we couldn't really review in our normal episode of a podcast. So for tonight we've got two games for you. So we're going to be looking at um code names.

SPEAKER_02 1:23

Yeah, code names duet.

SPEAKER_00 1:24

Duet uh and Star Realms. Um, and we're gonna start off with Star Realms. Star Realms is a deck builder, um, and you start off each with five cards in your hand, and they are a mix of damage dealing cards and also monetary value, and you use those to um either tear down your opponent and get their life from I think it's 30.

SPEAKER_02 1:49

Yeah, 25 or 30, I can never remember off the top of my head.

SPEAKER_00 1:51

Um, down to zero. Um, and then you use your coins to accumulate wealth and to buy new cards from the marketplace. The marketplace consists of I think five cards.

SPEAKER_02 2:00

Yeah, it's five.

SPEAKER_00 2:01

And it's a shared marketplace, and at the end of your turn, you can cash in any of your cards, uh any of your your monetary values to or your coins to then buy new cards. Those cards can be either ship, they're all ships, uh, some of them do direct damage, some of them will give you health, some of them will give you more coins, um, and others can be actual outposts.

SPEAKER_02 2:22

Yeah, bases.

SPEAKER_00 2:23

Bases, yeah. And those will soak up damage for you.

SPEAKER_02 2:27

Amongst other things.

SPEAKER_00 2:28

Amongst other things, yeah. You also have synergy, so you've got four or five different factions. Yeah, four factions. Uh you can tell that I'm not used to doing the rule.

SPEAKER_02 2:37

So that's all of everything.

SPEAKER_00 2:38

Um so you've got four different factions, and um, if you play multiple cards of the same faction, there's usiest synergy within that, so you get to accumulate bonus rewards as a result. Um, and that's kind of it. Have I missed anything?

SPEAKER_02 2:53

No, I don't think so. Um, the only thing I would mention is uh this differs from deck builder to deck builder, but you have to dump your hand at the end of every turn. Yep.

SPEAKER_01 3:00

You can't shuffle.

SPEAKER_02 3:01

Yeah, you can't keep cards carried over. And if you've listened to our Eon Zen special, it hasn't got that wonderful thing of being able to put them back in any particular order, you just sort of dump them and use a skull pile and that's shuffled, um, which is kind of the norm for deck builders.

SPEAKER_00 3:14

Yeah. Games can be, well, we've had some very, very long games.

SPEAKER_02 3:18

Huge variants.

SPEAKER_00 3:19

Yeah, huge variants.

SPEAKER_02 3:20

I have played a two and a half hour game with Star Realms before.

SPEAKER_00 3:23

Oh my goodness, okay. So they can be really long. Yeah, I think that's probably quite unusual, but I would say probably about 15 to 20 minutes per game. Yeah. Um, and there are quite a few expansions, I think. Some of which change the rules quite substantially, which we don't have.

SPEAKER_02 3:39

We have only got the base game and colony wars, which is basically like the base game, it doubles the base game, but it doesn't add any new mechanics.

SPEAKER_00 3:47

Um, and I think that's probably about all you need to know about Star Realms.

SPEAKER_02 3:50

Yeah, as with most car games, the complexity and the rules is on the cards, not in the gameplay.

SPEAKER_00 3:56

What I would also say is they do have variants specifically for two-player plays, so they have like a two-headed giant where you fight a big bad, although we've never done that.

SPEAKER_02 4:05

No, those variants are actually for more than two players. Star Realms at its core is a two-player game, but there are variants that allow you to play with more players.

SPEAKER_00 4:14

Well, I'll tell you what, this is why I don't do the rules normally.

SPEAKER_02 4:17

Well, it's been a while since we played this one.

SPEAKER_00 4:19

Alright then, so what were your first thoughts about Star Realms?

SPEAKER_02 4:22

Um, I don't even remember why I picked this one up. I probably picked it up because it was dead cheap and it was a portion of our lives and we didn't have much disposable income. So I was like, ooh, a board game for It was good for travel and we were going on. Ah, that was it, yeah. Um and it was actually one of our first deck builders. Um, I mean, being old hands and sort of Magic the Gathering, uh we uh played lots of sort of car games and car uh games where you build your deck beforehand. But this concept of building your deck as you play was quite new to us when we picked this up. Um yeah, I mean I'm gonna hold my thoughts to the actual review, but um it's it's always been a game that we've had a many, many years now, and it just it just always comes back up, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_00 5:04

Yeah, and I think as well when you often see sort of requests for what we're a couple or we're playing games, it's one that always comes up. Yeah, it always comes to the front as being quite a good game to pick up, possibly because it's quite cheap, it's quite quick, well, it can be quite quick.

SPEAKER_02 5:22

Yeah, and I would say that it is a it is a definite deck builder try to see if you like that. Because if you don't like this, you don't like deck builders. I would be confident enough to say that. Agreed.

SPEAKER_00 5:35

Right, so let's move on to our reviews. So the first portion of our review of our scoring will be about the general gameplay, and then we'll be following up with uh two player specific scoring system. So the first general scoring is components.

SPEAKER_02 5:48

Well, the cards, mate. Um no, they uh the cards are fine, you know, they they they're perfectly well made. Um I think the artwork on a lot of the cards, because I am a nerd for that kind of thing, is actually really good.

SPEAKER_00 6:02

Oh really? See, I was gonna say the opposite.

SPEAKER_02 6:04

Oh really, you don't like it?

SPEAKER_00 6:05

Well, as long as I don't like it, it's just a bit me maybe it's because it's spaceships.

SPEAKER_02 6:09

Yeah, I'm so much more of a sci-fi nut than Hannah is. Listeners, you like your fantasy.

SPEAKER_00 6:14

If they were elves, I'd probably be all over it.

SPEAKER_02 6:16

Would it help if they were just like an elf piloting the ships? Would that would that make it better? Or perhaps a dwarf?

SPEAKER_00 6:21

Yes. Yeah. And yes.

SPEAKER_02 6:22

And dragon-shaped ships, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:24

Oh yes.

SPEAKER_02 6:25

So yeah, from a sci-fi perspective, I rate the art. I think it's nice. It looks good.

SPEAKER_00 6:29

I mean they're ships.

SPEAKER_02 6:30

Yeah. Yes, they are in space. What more can you want? Come on.

SPEAKER_00 6:34

Tear down and set up. It's fairly easy and straightforward. I mean they're cards.

SPEAKER_02 6:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:38

That's it. It takes two minutes.

SPEAKER_02 6:41

Create your starter deck, deal your hands, um, create the marketplace. That's that's it.

SPEAKER_00 6:45

Yep. Um, so I scored it a six.

SPEAKER_02 6:48

Okay. Yeah, I scored it a six as well. One of the things that worth mentioning is it comes with its own deck of uh uh sort of scorecards that represent your life. So you have sort of tens and twenties and fives and ones. And I've always wrestled with whether that's a good thing or not. Sometimes I just crave a pen and paper because I find the whole thing a bit of a faff.

SPEAKER_00 7:13

Yes, and for yours, truly, who's not always that great at maths, quite often I have to sit there and ask you what my score is.

SPEAKER_02 7:20

Yeah, which is not great if somebody really wants to play your competitive, but yeah. I would say it is a nice touch. I and I always use them, but the more we played, the more like I just want a pen and paper, I just I don't I don't need this.

SPEAKER_00 7:33

It's because your score can go up and down, that's why I guess you need a lot of paper as well, I suppose.

SPEAKER_02 7:37

But yeah, uh six. I mean, there's only it it's fine for what it is. I will say that the box that it comes in, it comes in like a classic sort of deck box, is really flimsy.

SPEAKER_00 7:48

Yeah, and it's dead dogged. We played it a lot, and it's quite a bit. Um, alright, so our next category is complexity. So that includes things like analysis paralysis, uh, for people like me, um, arguing about rules, etc.

SPEAKER_02 8:05

And how well the complexity serves the gameplay.

SPEAKER_00 8:07

Yeah. Over to you.

SPEAKER_02 8:09

Um, I think it is an easy-to-learn game. I think the more cards you add to it, the more complex it becomes. Um, I think the more you understand and know the deck, the more complex it can become because you can you can be on the lookout for certain synergies and you start to understand what the different factions do, and you can react to your opponent on that. So if they're going after something you so and you know that a faction does something to sort of cancel that out, you can head for it. Um I think it's wonderfully complex, it's just enough. Um, I think it really serves the gameplay. I don't think it's over the top in any way, shape, or form. Um, as I said, easy to pick up. Uh, whenever I've taught those to people, they've picked it up within 10 minutes.

SPEAKER_00 8:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:55

So yeah, I I I think it's really good on that front. What about you?

SPEAKER_00 8:58

Yeah, no, I absolutely agree. Uh the devil in the detail is you know, the devil's in the cards, really. It's not about the actual game itself. Um, and it's those beautiful synergies when you get them all ticking over all at once, it's absolutely fantastic. Um, I also think that yes, because we played it so much, we have an insider, you know, we know what synergies work, etc. But I don't think the learning curve is that steep that you can't play it with a new B.

SPEAKER_02 9:24

No, you you I think while there could be a skill gap to a certain extent, I still think a new person could hold their own against somebody who plays this a lot.

SPEAKER_00 9:33

And also, it's what comes up in the flop when the market plays. Yeah, it is. You know, so you can start off going, you know what, I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna do this, and then absolutely get screwed over for cards, you know.

SPEAKER_02 9:42

Or best laid plans and all that, they can go to pot quite quickly because you're just not getting the the synergies that you want coming up, and then you but again you can pivot. Then you have to look at it and go, right, okay, maybe I'm gonna get some cards and maybe remove cards from my deck. I'm gonna sort of start over. There they're there's always options, you never feel like you're trapped. You you've always there's always something you can do, which I I like.

SPEAKER_00 10:04

So, how'd you score it?

SPEAKER_02 10:05

Eight.

SPEAKER_00 10:06

Yeah, me too.

SPEAKER_02 10:06

Yeah, okay. That's two for two, we're the same. That's never happened before. Cool.

SPEAKER_00 10:10

Um, so shelf life. So we're talking about things like value for money, replayability. And what I will say is this game we just always come back to. We've not played it for a while, admittedly. We've got a lot of new games that we're working our way through, but we play it a lot. We do, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:26

Although we haven't played it for a while. Um, but I think other than I think Marvel Champions will play Deck Builder or something like that, you know, a car game, we don't tend to crack that out, don't we? Um, yeah, I mean it's got a great shelf life. It's we existed on the base game for a very long time before I even thought about buying an expansion.

SPEAKER_00 10:44

And then the expansion you got wasn't particularly necessarily adding new rules, it was just expand more squads.

SPEAKER_02 10:49

I've never taken the leap to adding more rules because weirdly enough, I mean I'm I'm usually a bit of an expansion fanatic. Like if I like a game, I want to expand it.

SPEAKER_00 10:59

RIP, R Wallet, and Marvel Champions.

SPEAKER_02 11:01

Yes, well, yeah, I mean Marvel Champions takes up a lot of that, and we'll catch up at some point. Um, but this is one of those games where I haven't, not because I don't like the game, because I don't think we've reached a point where I feel we need it.

SPEAKER_01 11:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:13

Um, we're still having so much fun with just the base game and colony wars, which again is you can buy colony wars as the base game, so there's almost like two base games added together, that I just haven't felt the need to go buying loads of expansions for her. I just I haven't needed it. I mean, one of the issues with that is storage. Um, most of the games that we buy come in boxes, these come in these little deck boxes, and I uh I think a lot of the expansions actually come in almost like trading card game blister packs. So it's then how do you how do you what's your storage solution for that? And I haven't got an answer to it, so I don't want to just random decks of cards with an elastic band around them.

SPEAKER_00 11:48

Well, I mean there are lots of storage options on Etsy and things, but I think the way that we feel about that is we would rather let our collection be done and then buy it. And then buy a storage.

SPEAKER_02 11:55

Yeah, because otherwise you'd spend like money on a storage option and you then have to get another one later on because you've got really into it or something.

SPEAKER_00 12:01

Although we could just buy some basic storage boxes, that is a thing we could do.

SPEAKER_02 12:05

Yeah. But um but I think that's the interesting point, isn't it? And it speaks to its shelf life that we I just this is me, I haven't felt the need to expand it. I haven't I I I just haven't felt the need.

SPEAKER_00 12:15

So go on, how do you rate it?

SPEAKER_02 12:17

Eight.

SPEAKER_00 12:17

Ah, so I gave it a nine.

SPEAKER_02 12:19

Okay, fine. But yeah, that it's a good one. It's got a long shelf life.

SPEAKER_00 12:22

Okay. Um and then our final category under general is fun.

SPEAKER_02 12:27

Yeah, I bloody love Star Realms.

SPEAKER_00 12:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:31

It's really good fun every time we crack it out. I don't think I've ever had a game where I haven't enjoyed myself.

SPEAKER_01 12:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:38

And we've had a lot, like probably over 50 plays of it by this point. Um it's just it's just a really fun, easy game to play.

SPEAKER_00 12:50

And it can be as casual as you like, or it can be as serious as you like, depending on the mead you're in. If you just want something to occupy you while you're waiting for dinner to cook, then it's it's good to crack out.

SPEAKER_02 12:59

If you actually want to go like whole hog, we're being serious tonight, kind of thing.

SPEAKER_00 13:03

Then you can absolutely do that as well. And I just I yeah, it's it's it's really good fun.

SPEAKER_02 13:09

Yeah, it is. Um I can't really fault it. I've never given anything a 10 for fun, I'm not gonna start here, but I would give it a nine.

SPEAKER_00 13:18

Oh really? So I've scored it an eight, mainly because I feel like it is a short game, and whilst it's really, really good fun, I think some of the most immense games that we've had have always come from more complex, longer games.

SPEAKER_02 13:32

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 13:33

Are you gonna think that's the fault of Star Realms? No, absolutely not, but I've had more fun playing other games.

SPEAKER_02 13:38

Yeah, I think I'm kind of scoring it for what it is and the space it occupies, and for me that's a it's it's a nine.

SPEAKER_00 13:44

Fair enough. Um, so our overall scores is 7.75, so we'll round that up for eight.

SPEAKER_02 13:51

Well, yeah, which is one of our highest scoring games so far. So, in hidden away in the bonus content is where the real stuff No. I think for what it is, I think with the caveat for what it is, I mean this is not gonna stand toe-to-toe with Gloomhaven and June Imperium and Nemesis, and you know the So all games we've not reviewed yet. Oh yeah, games we haven't reviewed, yeah, you know, but you've got to keep the the the people waiting.

SPEAKER_00 14:13

Um PlayPlan guys.

SPEAKER_02 14:16

I mean, yeah, but we we we tend to review weightier games and this is not that.

SPEAKER_00 14:21

So onto our two-player review. Um so the first category under two-player is Table Talk.

SPEAKER_02 14:27

So Okay, yeah, I mean this one a little bit less so. Um I don't think it's a game that you play in silence, but I also don't think there aside from the required I'm I'm doing this amount of damage to you, which you do every turn, there's not a huge amount of back and forth here.

SPEAKER_00 14:45

Yeah, so I kind of disagree with that.

SPEAKER_02 14:47

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 14:48

So one of the choices that you get to make um for the most part is where you do damage. Do you do damage to their ship? Do you do damage to your opponent's face, or do you do damage to their outposts? Some outposts have shields, so you have to clear them before you clear them first. Um but yeah, you have that whole conversation, and I think there is that talking through your move as well, because actually, when you get going, and towards the end of it, you might have like five ships, like a couple of outposts, a whole bunch of synergies, plus a whole bunch of coins to spend. And I feel there is that kind of discussion that goes on. I also think I found out a fair bit about how you like to play, which is quite aggressively without a huge amount of defense.

SPEAKER_02 15:29

Yeah, I suppose from the getting to know you aspect, yeah, you're probably right, actually. I think I think people's play styles come out quite a lot in this, um, and you can learn something about somebody. Um, mine is like, ah, fire, fire, fire everything, fire torpedoes. Um so, yeah, actually, yeah, okay, you've changed my mind a little bit. I forgot about that aspect of it.

SPEAKER_00 15:50

Okay, so how did you score it?

SPEAKER_02 15:52

Um so I originally gave it a six, but I'm probably gonna bump that up to a seven now.

SPEAKER_00 15:55

Ah, I don't want to scored it, so.

SPEAKER_02 15:57

Oh, there you go. Just convincing me on your side. It's what happens when you host.

SPEAKER_00 16:03

Um, and then our next rating scale is uh competitiveness slash co-op.

SPEAKER_02 16:10

So, yeah, I mean, by its nature, it is a one 1v1 uh fight. Um, it is competitive. I think this one's difficult. I I find this one quite difficult to score because I think games can be so variable down to the luck of the draw. I think there have been games where once you get established and you both have a good deck at a synergy cooking, it is really competitive. Like really, really competitive. But you get other games where somebody gets what they want and the other person doesn't, and you just sort of steamroll them, or the other person's taken the the Healy faction as just this this this endless that's me painful lip to the end kind of thing, or we've been both fighting for the same faction, yeah, yeah, there is that. Yeah, you can end up in a situation where we're both fighting for the same thing, although, yeah, I've I've fighting.

SPEAKER_00 17:02

I feel like we've had games where all the cards in the flop have just been really, really expensive, so we're literally fighting for that same one shit card.

SPEAKER_02 17:09

Yeah, you know, yeah. So I think it it varies. I think it's it's not a game that you know when you're gonna crack it out, that you both start on a level playing field and it stays very, very competitive without throughout. It does, it does vary. So when it's at its best, usually competitive, rarely works. One person can steamroll the other, depending on the luck of the draw, or poor choices, usually mine, listeners, uh, which the other person hasn't made. How about you? What are you what are your thoughts?

SPEAKER_00 17:39

I think as far as two-player um competitive games go, it's right up there for me. It's got all it hits all the boxes that I want. There's a little bit of trash talk, there's a little bit of like face-to-face dialogue, it is competing for what you want. I've also bought cards just to irritate you.

SPEAKER_01 17:58

Yeah, yeah. You know?

SPEAKER_00 18:00

Um, so for me, it's right up there, and I scored it a whopping nine.

SPEAKER_02 18:04

Oh wow, okay. I gave it a seven.

SPEAKER_00 18:06

Yeah, reasonable.

SPEAKER_02 18:07

Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 18:09

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 18:10

Scalability.

SPEAKER_00 18:12

Um, didn't you say this was a two-player game and therefore Well, at its core, it is a two-player game.

SPEAKER_02 18:17

There are options, even from the core sets. I think you need to buy another core set, but there are options to expand it into multiple players. Um, which is why we haven't NA'd this one on on the because they there are in its core rules, there are ways and ways to include multiple players. You don't need to do that. No, you absolutely this is a two-player game. You do not need to bring other people in.

SPEAKER_00 18:38

And I think it would dilute it, and I think games can go on depending on you know circumstances and how the cards are circumstances and the cards that you draw. Um, but I think adding three people will just make it more complicated. And then what's gonna happen to your third person who's been annihilated?

SPEAKER_02 18:53

Well, yeah, I mean there's multiple different ways to play with three. I full disclosure, I have never played this with more than two, but from what I've read, it it's it's not the same. It doesn't it doesn't work as well. If you've got three people or more, crack out something else. And to that end, I score at ten.

SPEAKER_00 19:10

Okay, so on that basis I will score at a nine.

SPEAKER_02 19:13

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 19:14

And that gives a two-player score of eight. So a great all-round game.

SPEAKER_02 19:18

Eight and eight, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:19

Yeah, a great all-round game, absolutely awesome as two player.

SPEAKER_02 19:22

Yeah, I completely back that.

SPEAKER_00 19:24

Um if you don't have it, go out and buy it.

SPEAKER_02 19:26

Yeah, I mean it's not expensive. Although I don't know if it's actually still available. I think they I might be completely wrong on this, so forgive me listeners if I am wrong, but I feel like they're doing a Kickstarter for a new edition where I think they're pulling in multiple the uh the multiple core sets and a few expansions into one sort of actual box, and they're going out with that. I don't think you can get the classic sort of deck box version that I've got anymore. I might be wrong, but I think that's what I remember reading.

SPEAKER_00 19:54

Okay, so on to our second game of this two-game edition.

SPEAKER_02 19:59

Extravaganza.

SPEAKER_00 20:00

Extravaganza. We are talking about codenames duet.

SPEAKER_02 20:04

We are indeed.

SPEAKER_00 20:04

Duet duet?

SPEAKER_02 20:06

Duet. Nobody says duet.

SPEAKER_00 20:10

Codename is duet. Um so codenames duet is a two-player variant of the traditional code names. Um so in the traditional rules of code names, you would have a grid of 25 different random words, although not always as random as you would hope. And you would pair up. And in your pair, you'll have one person who's the guesser and one person who gives clues. Um you will also have a grid which each of you uh each of your clue givers can see. Umrect answers, some of those will be wrong answers, and one will be a big the assassin card. And if at any point your guesser picks that name, um you automatically, or that word, you automatically lose the game. You each take turns, I believe.

SPEAKER_02 21:02

Yeah, in traditional code names, you do, yeah, and it's more about beating the other team, as far as I remember.

SPEAKER_00 21:07

And you have to give a clue, a one-word clue, that helps link ideally multiple correct answers from the the grid. The trick is you can only give one word, and they obviously can't get any of the wrong answers or the assassin cards. You also need to say how many words you can possibly link with that one clue.

SPEAKER_02 21:30

Yeah, so you would say something like brain three, and then I have to choose three words from their grid that that match that.

SPEAKER_00 21:37

Yeah. So then the two-player variant, so codenames duet, is you have the same 25 uh word grids in the middle.

SPEAKER_02 21:47

And you each have your own version of the the grid with the right and wrong answers.

SPEAKER_00 21:52

Yeah, absolutely. And you each give each other clues and you have a number of lines that you can extinguish. And you have a number of wrong answers that you're able to get.

SPEAKER_02 22:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:02

The challenge then is that you move through a map.

SPEAKER_02 22:06

Yep. Map of the world and each location.

SPEAKER_00 22:09

Yeah, has a number of right answers that you have to well not right answers.

SPEAKER_02 22:13

Wrong answers you're allowed.

SPEAKER_00 22:14

Not wrong answers that you're allowed.

SPEAKER_02 22:16

And turns.

SPEAKER_00 22:17

And turns that you're allowed.

SPEAKER_02 22:18

Yeah. So you'd have like nine and nine, which is nine turns and nine wrong answers allowed. Yeah. And if you fail any of those conditions, every time you make a guess, you take a little counter, don't you? That that says how many turns you've had.

SPEAKER_00 22:29

Yeah. The thing about code names, I find, is that um it's if you play with a partner quite often you do a lot better because you know each other and you know each other way each other thinks. Um whereas codenames duet kind of takes that out because it's just aimed at two people and so it's like an even playing field.

SPEAKER_02 22:48

Yeah, it is a little bit, yeah. Um I think one of the yeah, and the the joy of code names is you you can tailor what you do to your team member. I remember when we play code names, I played with somebody who's just as nerdy as me, and I was throwing in some really esoteric, like a geek references which they were getting, which is really fun. Um, but I think yeah, when you play with just the two of you, you you but you you do know how each other's brains work, and that can be a bit of an impediment sometimes, I find.

SPEAKER_01 23:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:16

Because you you feel quite restricted, you can't sort of go outside the box. He's like, oh, they'll never get that, or they'll never get. I tend to find I think that more than I would be playing with sort of a random person.

SPEAKER_00 23:25

Yeah. And also, I mean, when we've played with other people and we played the traditional variant, people haven't necessarily known that I'm absolutely horrendous at geography, and therefore they will say some very obviously related ones, and I'll be like, I don't know. Um, so anything else you want to say before we get on to our ratings?

SPEAKER_02 23:44

Uh no, not really. I think we can go straight into the ratings. I think um it is sort of run as a campaign, so you have a you you start off with a sort of easy scenario, and the the scenarios are just exactly, as we said, just two numbers that tell you how many wrong wrong answers you can have. We didn't say how you win. Um you win by there's fifth you need to get 15 green cards, which are your agents, so you basically need to collect 15 correct guesses during the time allotted.

SPEAKER_00 24:13

Which is all the correct answers, really, on the player grid.

SPEAKER_02 24:16

Yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:17

So you need to get all the right answers in the right number of turns with no with the set allowed number of wrong answers.

SPEAKER_02 24:26

And no assassin. Obviously, you've each got that one card which you you cannot touch.

SPEAKER_00 24:30

Yeah. So, um on to scoring. So the first category is components.

SPEAKER_02 24:36

I mean, in terms of setup, dead quick, tear down, dead quick. Um I think the components overall, bang average. Um I would have liked the actual clue cards to be slightly bigger. I find they're a little bit thin and flimsy and a bit small.

SPEAKER_00 24:55

So here's my bugbear with them. Your grid is a whole bunch of random words, and very helpfully they write the words upside down and right way up so that you can read it from either side of the table. However, one side is a lot smaller.

SPEAKER_02 25:11

And in italics, I think. In italics, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:14

And I just find that I'm constantly trying to read the words upside down and the other one's got big bold white background, bold type face.

SPEAKER_02 25:20

Yeah, I do the same thing. Like I read the words upside down instead of actually just reading the ones that are facing me. Yeah, yeah. Why they just didn't have the words in the same font in both directions? Yeah, I don't really know.

SPEAKER_00 25:30

And I imagine if you're dyslexic, it's an absolute nightmare.

SPEAKER_02 25:33

Yeah, it's probably a complete game breaker.

SPEAKER_00 25:35

Yeah, it's a bust. Um really, aside from a whole bunch of little cards, that's all there is to it. I think the cards are about the right size given what you're trying to do.

SPEAKER_02 25:46

Yeah, I mean there's the the agent cards which all have an artistic representation of somebody who's in they're all like uncanny valley famous people. My favourite's the Jason Statham one. Um they all look like vaguely like spy characters that you know from movies but are not, um, which I actually quite like. I think that's quite a nice touch. I think the art on them is quite good. But yeah, aside from that, pretty bang average, I have to say.

SPEAKER_00 26:08

So how do you score it?

SPEAKER_02 26:09

Bang average, five.

SPEAKER_00 26:10

Yeah, me too. Um, I really do wish, if you're listening, games developers, that you would just change the wording on the cards. I'm not alone, we are not alone in this. Um so the next rating scale is complexity.

SPEAKER_02 26:23

Well, this is a very, very hard one to rate because the complexity, it I mean, the the actual complexity of the game is is almost non-existent. The complexity comes with- Give a clue!

SPEAKER_00 26:34

Guess the word.

SPEAKER_02 26:35

Yeah, the complexity comes with trying to tailor that setup of words you have to your playing partner, which is the that's where the game is, that's the interesting bit. Um, how well does the complexity serve the game? Fine, I guess. Yeah, you know, making it more complicated would not not make it a better game or anything like that.

SPEAKER_00 26:56

Um arguably to make co-players' duet two-player, they have added a whole bunch of complexity.

SPEAKER_02 27:03

Yeah, I mean, we're talking about a very long complex game, party game with a slight tinge of complexity added. But yes, it's it it it's not a complex game by its nature, there's just a little bit added on, I think.

SPEAKER_00 27:15

Yeah, and I think it's just about right, really, isn't it? Yeah, a party game, it is meant there to be as like a warm-up or just something fun to do at a party.

SPEAKER_02 27:24

Yeah, I mean, I I think the complexity serves it, so I I've been slightly generous here, but I'll give it an eight.

SPEAKER_00 27:29

Yeah, eight.

SPEAKER_02 27:30

Because I think that's that's about that's that's about where I'm at with it.

SPEAKER_00 27:33

Yeah. Shelf life.

SPEAKER_02 27:36

Yeah. Um I found myself getting bored with this quicker than a lot of games in our collection. I just I don't I I think once you've had sort of 10-ish games of it, you've kind of seen it all.

SPEAKER_00 27:51

But I think the whole point about code names is it's there to be played with other people.

SPEAKER_02 27:56

I know, which is kind of excises.

SPEAKER_00 27:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:58

Which I guess maybe, you know, go back to the complexity point, maybe they should have added a bit more to it. Might get me a bit more interested for a bit longer. I also think that while those stacks of cards look really big to begin with, the the the clues I'm talking about here, they're not actually that many.

SPEAKER_00 28:17

No, they're not. You burn through them fairly quickly.

SPEAKER_02 28:19

I tend to find like after we we must have had like 10 to 15 plays of it, uh you you kind of start crying out for a few more cards in there just to break up the variety a bit. Um, because you you end up a lot of the time with grids with with clues that you've seen before, you know, like that there's combinations of cards that you've seen before, and you use the same clues for them, which kind of just feels a bit damp, really. Like it's it it dampens it, dampens the fun. Um, and they're such small, slight cards with one word on. I feel like, again, from a value for money perspective, although I can't talk this as a charity shop find, so I didn't pay you know full price for this. I don't actually know what it costs full price. Um I just feel like they could have doubled the number of cards. I know if you really have code names, you can take all the cards from code names and stick it in here, which is great, but we don't really have code names, so just it after repeated plays, it feels a bit slight.

SPEAKER_00 29:10

Yeah, but I think also probably the same criticism could be said of codenames, the original. It's just that you would only crack it out in such less frequent situations.

SPEAKER_02 29:20

You'd have less frequent situations, and you'd probably be paying with playing with different people, or you could mix up the teams, which would make things quite different. Yeah. Whereas you can't with this.

SPEAKER_00 29:29

Yeah. Um, interestingly, we never got through the entire campaign if you would like, and I can't imagine we will do it out once or twice.

SPEAKER_02 29:38

Now and again, yeah, but very rarely. I think it's gonna be a significant personal time before we do crack it out again.

SPEAKER_00 29:43

So, how do you score it?

SPEAKER_02 29:45

Uh four.

SPEAKER_00 29:46

Yes. Likewise. Fun.

SPEAKER_02 29:49

I think this is a me issue, but I find this particular game, which I didn't find with code names the original, because I think that's more of a party game kind of atmosphere, and I had a huge amount of fun with that. I find this really frustrating.

SPEAKER_00 30:05

Really?

SPEAKER_02 30:06

Yeah, it winds me up in a way that other board games don't usually. And I think that's because I'm wrestling with my own brain. And I also get frustrated at the how can you not get that? In a way that I never do with anything else. I don't know why that is. I think it's because I you simply scare the grid for ages, and you're like, I have a very clear idea why these three or four words are linked. And then something just gets wrong on the the first the first go, and you're like, oh, you know. And I don't like that. I don't like that it does that. I don't like that it almost makes you frustrated with your co-op partner. Co-op games, I've never found I've got frustrated with the person I'm playing with. Except for this.

SPEAKER_00 30:47

That's really interesting because I find it really good fun. I feel like there's a right time and a place for it.

SPEAKER_01 30:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:53

Um, like quite often we'll play it before we'll play something else. I feel like we can only play it for a very short amount of time before we get too into our own hands.

SPEAKER_02 31:03

You just disappear into your own head, don't you?

SPEAKER_00 31:05

Too far down the bottle of wine.

SPEAKER_02 31:07

Yeah, that's it.

SPEAKER_00 31:08

Um but for me, when it's worked and it's worked really well, I've had really good fun playing it.

SPEAKER_02 31:15

Yeah, I mean it's really sad when you do get a clue and you do do it, it's very, very satisfying. But I think, like I say, I think this is a me issue. I think it makes me very, very frustrating. I find it very frustrating. I find it a frustrating experience. I have scored it a five because I do think that's a me issue. Um for me personally, I might score it a bit lower. Um, but I don't tend to find myself having a huge amount of fun when playing it.

SPEAKER_00 31:41

Ah, okay, so I would say a seven.

SPEAKER_02 31:45

Okay, fine.

SPEAKER_00 31:46

So that brings us to a total of five point eight, and as always, we round up, so that gives us a six.

SPEAKER_01 31:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:52

Yeah. So it's a little bit high for me. I'd probably go with a five.

SPEAKER_00 31:56

Yeah, I think that's probably fair, and I think probably code names.

SPEAKER_02 32:01

The complexity's bumped that up. The complexity serving the game has bumped that up, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_00 32:06

Okay, so moving on to our two-player ratings, uh, table talk.

SPEAKER_02 32:12

Well, that that's the entirety of the game, isn't it? And we we put getting to know you as uh as a part of this, and I can't really falter from that perspective. Um yeah, I mean, what about you? I I can't think I can't think of any negatives there, really.

SPEAKER_00 32:30

Well, I mean we talk about dead time as well, so quite often there will be an awful lot of time that we are sat there just thinking about ways in which we could link words. So we will say, right, we're halfway through the game, we've only got four more guesses, and we need to link like ten words, which means we need to link threes or more, so we sit there and think for a really long time, and that's the bit where I think you find it really frustrating.

SPEAKER_02 32:53

Yeah, there's a fair bit of thinking time, isn't there?

SPEAKER_00 32:56

However, it's not necessarily about getting to know you, it's more also about a validation of I know you, I know the way you think, I I I got you, you're gonna get this because I'm gonna say something really weird and esoteric, and you're gonna be. Most other people wouldn't get it.

SPEAKER_02 33:11

So the dormies are never gonna get it. You know because you know me. Yeah, that's true, actually. Yeah, so there's that almost that that rewarding aspect of it if you are playing as somebody who's a long-standing friend or partner that you're like, I know you and I know you'll get this. Yeah. Which you can't really get anywhere else.

SPEAKER_00 33:28

No. Um, which is so when it clicks and it works, it's nice.

SPEAKER_02 33:33

So yeah, I mean I've given this one a nine.

SPEAKER_00 33:36

Oh, so I gave it a seven.

SPEAKER_02 33:37

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 33:38

Mainly because the amount of dead time and the amount of thinking.

SPEAKER_02 33:41

I think what's interesting about this one when you talk about dead time is for some reason this one's a bit more guilt-free if somebody else is taking bloody ages on their turn, you can sit there and browse their phone because you have no input on it whatsoever. So you could just like, I'm just gonna let them think. I'm gonna I'm gonna go off and you know, pour myself a drink, I'm gonna go off and browse my phone for five minutes while I think about it. And uh that's almost guilt-free, and that's part of the rhythm of playing the game. Um, whereas in other games it can be a bit sort of you know standoffish or disrespectful, it's like, oh, you take ages, you know. Um, so there is that. There's that element of it where it's very much the slow in person just in their own space, and you kind of need to leave them to it.

SPEAKER_00 34:16

And yet that's such the complete opposite of what code names multiplayer.

SPEAKER_02 34:23

There's a timer in that though.

SPEAKER_00 34:25

Oh, there is, isn't there?

SPEAKER_02 34:26

So you can't sit there just staring at the grid for ages. And there's part of me that wonders if this would have benefited from something like that. I don't know. Because you can. I am not prone to analysis paralysis like you are, but I have sat there for five minutes, ten minutes, solid, just staring at this grid, trying to come up with something, especially in like clutch situations where we're gonna win or lose based on it. Um yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:51

Interesting point.

SPEAKER_02 34:52

Okay, so that was nine from me and seven from you.

SPEAKER_00 34:55

Uh next rating is competitiveness.

SPEAKER_02 34:58

Cooperability in this case.

SPEAKER_00 35:00

Yes, cooperativeness.

SPEAKER_02 35:01

It's cooperative by its nature, that that is the game, but how satisfying is that cooperation?

SPEAKER_00 35:07

And I mean it's not really necessarily it's not like we're working together to achieve something, it's just I'm giving you clues and you're getting it right or wrong as a result. Like I don't feel there's that kind of there's no strategy.

SPEAKER_02 35:19

Well, there's no real strategy to it, is there? Yeah, we're not building something together. There's a little bit when it comes to using up your turns and your wrong answers, or when you choose how many clues to give people and all that kind of thing. There's a little bit of that, but it just it never sees it never feels satisfyingly joined up in the way a lot of other co-ops do.

SPEAKER_00 35:36

Agreed.

SPEAKER_02 35:37

Um yeah, so on our basis, I am going to give it a six.

SPEAKER_00 35:41

Uh yeah, so I gave it a five.

SPEAKER_02 35:42

Yeah, fine. I mean it's a I I think it is a co-op game by nature, so I've probably bumped that up one, but yeah, it's fairly average in that regard, in terms of how satisfying it feels to work together.

SPEAKER_00 35:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:54

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 35:54

Um scalability we're not going to do because this is a two-player variant, and there is no way to play it.

SPEAKER_02 36:00

No, not that I know of. I mean, uh, I guess you could. I suppose we could all how how does it be like, yeah, thinking about it now, you could not you could not play it. You could not play it with more people, even though I'll I'm I'm sure there's a variant or a house rule out there, but I can't see it.

SPEAKER_00 36:14

Yeah, you just play normal code there.

SPEAKER_02 36:16

So not applicable.

SPEAKER_00 36:18

Okay. So that gives us a couple's rating score of 6.75, so we'll round up. That makes it seven, which feels high.

SPEAKER_02 36:26

It does feel high. I mean, I again the the table talk, we both rated it very highly on that, so that that's that's bumped it up. I think that Do you know what?

SPEAKER_00 36:35

It would be amazing to play with somebody that you're just getting close with and just getting intimate with intimate with.

SPEAKER_02 36:42

Not that kind of podcast, Hannah.

SPEAKER_00 36:44

Tune in for Hannah's uh advice column because someone you're trying to get to know, and that would be a really fun game to play, just to like just to find out a bit more about each other, and I think that would be awesome.

SPEAKER_02 36:56

It would be it'd be a great first time you come over to the other person for dinners, the other person's house for dinner to crack out, like while you're waiting for something to cook and go, oh, let's get to know each other.

SPEAKER_00 37:07

But like old couples like us where there's nothing more to learn, it's just a happy experience, at least a frustration because your wife fails to recognise how a chattel and antarchica can be related pretty much later on.

SPEAKER_02 37:24

Yeah, exactly. So, you know, approach the caution if you if you've been married or together for more than 10 years.

SPEAKER_00 37:32

Okay, alright. Well, that brings us to the end of our special bonus content. Thank you ever so much for tuning in. Um, we would uh massively appreciate uh rating on your podcast medium of choice. We've also got all our socials up. Um, but until then, thank you, good night, and be good to each other.

SPEAKER_02 37:50

I mean that's an interesting variant on it. We'll go with that for the specials. Thank you and good night.