Soup Sandwich
Welcome to Soup Sandwich, a podcast that explores the complex and compelling world of veterans in the United States. Through interviews with veterans themselves, military experts, and advocates, we'll dive deep into the issues that matter most to this community, from mental health and employment, to the history of veterans in the US and the future of military service. This podcast is supported by the generous contribution of the members of VFW Post 3033.
Soup Sandwich
In Their Boots: Insights into the Military Veteran Experience
Do you ever wonder about the life of a military veteran, the unspoken challenges they face, the values they hold, or the camaraderie they share? On today's Soup Sandwich podcast, we pull back the curtain on the veteran experience with our guests Tim Artibee, Post Commander for VFW Post 3033, Tre Porter, a retired Army Sergeant First Class, the Vice President of the Post 3033 Rider's Group, and Shem Thompson, a 17-year Army vet and Junior Vice Commander of VFW Post 3033, Brent Holbrook, a Navy Petty Officer 3rd Class, and Joe Gates, an Army veteran. We traverse the landscapes of their military journeys, from long deployments to Afghanistan and the vital role of the VFW in supporting veterans, to the evolving landscape of communication during military deployments.
We also venture into the discussion of women in the military, the challenges, and rewards that come with it. Hear firsthand our encounters with female soldiers, recent changes in the Marine Corps and Army, and our emphasis on the importance of equal physical standards for unit safety and effectiveness. Our dialogue continues on the ongoing conflict between Israel and Gaza, with our personal perspectives that might shed a new light on the situation for you.
We delve deeper into military operations, and sharing our experiences with land navigation challenges. We also touch on the significance of physical fitness in the military, the enforcement of PT (physical training), and how it translates to optimal performance in combat situations. In this thought-provoking episode, we converse about our admiration for special ops forces, the impact of media on war perception, and our views on the ongoing Israel-Gaza conflict. So, tune in to this engaging episode of Soup Sandwich as we unravel the threads of the military veteran experience.
Email Us with your comments and suggestions at vfwpost3033@gmail.com, we'd love to hear from you!
War is a paradox. It is the power to bring nations together, to inspire heroism and sacrifice and to forge bonds of camaraderie that will span a lifetime, but it also has the power to tear families apart, to shatter communities and to leave scars that will never fully heal. And, for those who have served, the transition back to civilian life can be one of the greatest challenges they will ever face. This is the typical life of military veterans, a world that is both familiar and foreign to most of us. It is a world that is shaped by unique experiences, values and traditions of the military, and by the sacrifices and struggles of those who have served, but it's also a world that is constantly changing, as new generations of veterans confront new challenges and new opportunities. Thank you for joining us at Soup Sandwich. Dig your foxhole, heat up your MRE and spend some time with us.
Speaker 2:Hey, so I want to welcome everybody back to the VFW Post 3033 podcast. My name is Charlie Klein, post member. Vfw Riders Group post 3033 Riders Group president. Who do we have here with us today?
Speaker 3:My name is Tim Erdibi. I'm the post commander for the post 3033. I am a sergeant of arms for the post 3033 Riders Group and I am the director for the Department of Michigan Riders Group.
Speaker 4:My name is Trey Porter, US Army. I did 20 years retired as a sergeant for his class. I'm a member of post 3033. Also the vice president of the Riders Group for Borley-Hannell, Post 3033.
Speaker 5:I'm Shem Thompson. I did 17 years in Army. I'm the junior vice commander of post 3033.
Speaker 6:All right that's what we got tonight. All right, boys, what do we want to talk?
Speaker 2:about. Last time we kind of left off on a whole crazy about of subjects. Right, we talked about post membership. We talked about Riders Group things, stuff going on in the community, obviously veteran support stuff like VA and all that kind of stuff. So I think probably right now well, obviously you guys are all members, but Riders Group's been out there kind of kicking ass along with their Honor Guard program, right, doing stuff in the community. We just got done doing our toys for Tots donation for the year. Dropped off bag of toys at our post for toys for Tots and we took some down to our local town just south of Mount Pleasant. Shepherd dropped off bag of toys down there to their police chief who blasted us all over Facebook. It's a really good promotion Down there. He's got a huge following so it was cool to see how many times that post had been reshared, likes and the loves and all that stuff. I think it was great. It's good publicity for us.
Speaker 4:Oh yeah, shout out to Chief Sawyer. I actually grew up with him. Oh really, yeah, his dad and my dad were friends. They worked together at Mish Khan in Six Lakes and I've known him my whole life, ever since I was born pretty much, yeah.
Speaker 2:so I actually met him because when my wife was at the prosecutor's office here for Isabella County obviously she works real close or dead at the time right, we're real close with all the agencies around the area and Luke was always just an awesome guy, right, huge, huge supporter of anything in the community and it shows because you know, when you put something out there on Facebook, I mean the outpouring that he gets is huge. So it just shows that there's great police departments. I'm not knocking on our tribal or the state or the city or even Isabella County either, right, but I mean that small town community mentality that they have is huge down there.
Speaker 4:Oh yeah, and I've been following Chief Sawyer ever since he got hired over there or elected in. I'm not exactly sure how that works over there, but you know, because I've known him and known his parents and follow them on Facebook as well. I've seen his progression and when he started over there, even when I was still in the military, I was watching his Facebook before I moved back to the area. So, yeah, shout out to him. He's doing great things over there really.
Speaker 2:Yeah, to be honest with you, I don't even think he ever spent time in the military at all. I don't think so?
Speaker 4:No, he didn't.
Speaker 2:Just to have those other community members that are out there supporting us. You know, just like we support them, right, you know we show up to their functions, their benefits and do stuff like that, and then in turn, they turn around, do the same thing for us, which is great.
Speaker 4:Well, I see I look at police officers in the same. They're doing the same thing we did, right, you know, they're, to a certain extent, they're giving up parts of their life to serve their community. They're serving their community just in a different way. You know, we went overseas, we left our areas. They're staying in their communities and still serving their community. So I look at them, pretty much the same as what we're doing. They get shot at too.
Speaker 2:Well, absolutely, you know. I mean, and they miss the holidays, right, I mean there's got to be someone working Saturday nights and Sunday mornings and Christmas Day and kids birthdays. I mean they do the same sacrifices that we did, maybe on a different scale, right, Because at the end of the day they went home, right, but it took us six months, nine months a year, right, to get back. And you know, back in my time it was emails, and I think I talked about that on the last podcast, right, I mean that's all. My wife and I used to have to go to the internet cafe, right, Give them two bucks to get online for 20 minutes. You know what I mean. It's so much different nowadays than it was even in your talking back in my day, you know, early 2000s, late, late 90s. I mean that's the way it was done. You didn't even wait on snail mail.
Speaker 5:Shit, I remember shit. We even have emails or or internet cafes. Shit, we go somewhere and we get phone cards.
Speaker 2:AT&T would have phone booths set up, yeah we always had the bank right, the bank of phones, right outside the barracks. You know about 45 phones sitting there and you could overhear everybody's conversation. You know and you're the good, the bad and the ugly in those conversations a lot of times, but you know my, my ex-wife is.
Speaker 4:She's deployed right now. She's over in the Middle East. She's actually at Camp Aire of John in Kuwait. I can pick up the phone and call her right now. You know, I matter of fact, I talked to her today. What does she have like a phone in the room? She, she or cell phone cell phone not cell phones, it's her iPhone she, as long as she's connected to the internet, she can call another iPhone, iphone, I guess that's true.
Speaker 2:There's that Wi-Fi calling option, right yeah, and your phone's that. So she picked up the phone and called me today. Like it, like Tim's. Tim's looking at us like what do you mean this setting? What are you talking about? Iphones? What's an iPhone? I still have a flip phone.
Speaker 4:But you know, these guys with their Android say they could if they were overseas and had an internet connection. All they have to do is use a Facebook Messenger to make a phone call, or Google Duo, whatever they got.
Speaker 2:So let me ask you this question Would it, would it, when you're deployed, would it be more convenient to have anybody at any time right when you're not actually not on patrol, not on duty or whatever right Be able to get a hold of you? Or is it almost a detriment? Right, so you're not focused on the mission because you might be interrupted at any time. Right, so, like if you're, if you got your eight hour rest period and it's like I want to call home, you had the option. Now, right, you're on your eight hour rest period or whatever, they instantly can get a hold of you and maybe bad news. Or maybe now you're distracted by something else. Is it? Is it a good thing or detriment?
Speaker 5:It really doesn't matter, because if it feels bad news, it was going to come through, no matter what, whether it be email, whether it be Red Cross or something else going to come through, you know, or whether it be a phone call, it didn't really matter.
Speaker 2:See, I always kind of like the option of I got to call home when I wanted to call home, yep, right. So I didn't. If I didn't want the distraction, right, because maybe we're prepping for something, maybe we're getting ready for something and I needed to be 100% focused in the game, right. Then I made the call when I wanted to make the call. I didn't have the other distraction besides a mail call or oh, I should probably go check my email, right. But if I didn't want to, I didn't have to, right.
Speaker 2:Now, all of a sudden, you know, and you start talking time, different changes, Right? So I mean there are 11 hours.
Speaker 4:I had well out of us. Yeah, something like that.
Speaker 1:It was.
Speaker 4:I was talked to her probably around noon it was probably like 1130 my time and she said it was 730 at night there. Yeah, some time. So I mean all of a sudden eight hours yeah so my mom and dad get off work at five.
Speaker 2:They call you, it's 4am, 3am, whatever waiting you up in the middle of the night it could be right. So I mean, I just was kind of curious now that we talk about how more convenient it is to reach out you know touch the way the world is nowadays.
Speaker 4:You, you're completely accessible to everybody all the time. With this cell phone, you know people can reach out and touch you anytime they want to. You got no, no downtime. Really, I'm working 24 seven Because I got a cell phone.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. That's what's one thing that my wife and I had to get used to right when I started the business was my vacations are always working vacations. The reason why I have a laptop right with us. I've been projects managing projects, taking phone calls we're trying to do something with the kids and my phone's ringing all the time. I mean that just is the way it is.
Speaker 4:Yep. And that's you know, overseas it's. It's even when we were, when we first joined, right I was. I've joined in 1997. You joined when.
Speaker 2:Yeah well, same time, so same time. I delayed entry programs so until 98.
Speaker 4:We didn't have cell phones back then, people couldn't just reach us when we were out in San Diego or wherever you were at. They couldn't just, they just couldn't reach out and call you. You know you'd have to. I didn't have, I remember I didn't have. I had a phone in my barracks room. I had a pay phone downstairs that will that I would use, so completely way more accessible now than we were 20, 30 years ago.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so nowadays, you know I like the fact that there's conveniences. I was just wondering if you know it'd actually be kind of cool to talk to somebody maybe deployed right now, you know, to actually see how they like it Right, I can arrange that. Well, we can, we can Bluetooth her in here.
Speaker 4:Oh, you could 100% she could.
Speaker 2:She could be on here with us right now.
Speaker 4:Let's go, for I'll give her a heads up next time Because, like we said, it's it's probably 2am.
Speaker 2:Yep, 2am or 3am. Yeah 100%, I get it. So you tell me to meet your microphone. I unmute you and then you cough. Hey, it happens, it gives me the thumbs up with. That clears as well.
Speaker 3:Lisa in fart Surprised.
Speaker 2:So it happens, it happens, yes, we've got we've had some pretty cool stuff going on up at our VFW post and we've actually got some some new members coming in right. We got AJ Boyle came in right. He's he's a younger member, army yeah, he's only been out not very long, right four or five years?
Speaker 3:No, he's still in. We still have. He's a in the guard unit, Okay he just came back from. He came back from Afghanistan about eight months ago.
Speaker 5:Yeah, he's actually in the 125 right now we have one that's.
Speaker 3:I don't know. I don't know if he's in the 125 or not.
Speaker 5:Yeah, I think he is, I think, I think it's the 126, 126.
Speaker 3:I think it's the 126. So is one better than the other.
Speaker 3:I'm just kidding you, because well, actually, the way they, the way they've numbered the infantry battalions, at least them to where, during World War one, when they won and they marched in the parade, they marched by battalions. And at Michigan at one time there was three infantry battalions there was the 126, the 125 and the 225. 225 was from Detroit area, 125 would be from Lake Alma, poured here on Saginaw, flint, and then the 126 was along the the west coast. So when they start downsizing in the military, they cut the infantry battalions in that order. 225 went away.
Speaker 5:Actually they became the 425.
Speaker 3:No, the 425 was a separate thing. They were the snake eaters.
Speaker 5:Well, I think they 225 got eight. They were absorbed by the 425. From my understanding of it.
Speaker 3:I didn't know, I didn't think that happened. But so then the 126 went to an armor or a calf, and then the 125, because they were the oldest regiment of infantry in the state state is the only infantry regiment. And now they brought the 126 back and the 126 is what I joined out of high school, the Avengers of baton, 60 years ago 62. Thanks anyway, dick. So just a little interesting history of the Michigan National Guard.
Speaker 5:Actually, the Avengers of baton doesn't necessarily fall directly solely on the 126. That's actually a 38 38th infantry division yeah like the anybody within the 38th infantry throughout the whole Midwest they were. That's where they were dubbed.
Speaker 3:Yeah, the Avengers of baton. And another thing cool about that is the 126. They hopped around with Charlie's people out in the Pacific. They were at late aga off Liz earn or Liz moon or some island bullshit name like that. They had 787 consecutive days in combat.
Speaker 4:Yeah, so. I thought, I thought it was bad when they extended me from 12 months to 15 months. What the hell. So it was it was that. That was the worst deployment, that first one that's. You guys were there when I was there. You guys were in Rustam Maya.
Speaker 3:Mortaritoville.
Speaker 4:Yeah, that's, that's exactly where. Where I was at, we were getting rocked, just like you guys. Orders every day, every day. It was not fun no, it wasn't, but I'm glad to be here. I can tell you that I appreciate things a whole lot more.
Speaker 5:And I get there and your ass is on your way to scan you.
Speaker 4:That's where I was at Yep. Yeah, scan you. So did you guys do that 15 months? You guys didn't get that extension.
Speaker 3:No, we ended up about 10 months, wasn't it?
Speaker 5:No, it was 12 months to the day. Damn near. Wow Was a year.
Speaker 2:We went. We went from six to eight months.
Speaker 4:Those uh, those, uh, I was actually where I was at in scanning. I was with Minnesota National Guard. They were running the five that I was at and I think they, those guys, ended up doing, between their ramp up and their extension, 21 months, almost two years, gone away from home.
Speaker 2:It was tough man.
Speaker 4:Yeah that that had to be bad, but you know that's what we sign up for, right.
Speaker 2:The unknown, times that shit happens.
Speaker 5:I love being away from home. I have to deal with the wife or bullshit back here.
Speaker 4:Yeah, you get. You got your good and your bad simpler times, yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, you know, I think for a lot of us, you know we all listed before, things popped off, right, so we had no idea going. That's different if you enlisted in 2004, five, six, eight, 10, right, totally different. You kind of knew what you were getting into. For a lot of us it was before that, I mean golf, or was 10 years prior, you know, and then all of a sudden, man you're in it, but you do it going in. It could always happen on any other time, right, but I mean wasn't that wasn't actively going.
Speaker 4:So right, but you knew when you were signing up. You knew that this was a possibility. No, 100 percent, not yeah you know, and I get it. I say that, say this, that my son joined a few years back and when that? I think it was when Trump killed that, that general, that Iranian general, remember, was that Salamani, or out of care? Remember his name.
Speaker 2:Al-Zawari or something. Yeah, died like a dog.
Speaker 4:Yeah Well, big beautiful dog. No, that was, that was a terrorist. This guy was a. Was was a. He was a Iranian general.
Speaker 3:I can't remember terrorist.
Speaker 2:Pretty much right Hamas, the Hamas general.
Speaker 4:And my son was like, oh my God, we're going to, we're going to war with Iran. I was like, just take it easy first of all. Ok, quit being a little bitch. That's pretty much what I told him.
Speaker 2:I said listen, this is what you these are me right, Because I know Marines don't know exactly.
Speaker 4:I was like, listen, this is this is what you signed up for. I said and if you go over there and you die, guess what? That's what you signed up for. We're going to miss you, but you know you signed up for something bigger than yourself. So yeah, ruck up.
Speaker 2:Well, I can always. I can always tell you this we said there's two ways I want to die Right. One glory in my country, right, dying combat, or at least in service right. And two I'm not hardly a mind. Yeah, one of two ways. Let someone pull out in front of me. I guess that's what God intended it to be. So that's two ways that I want to go doing, the two things that I love or riding around in the snow or I'm going to add a third thing Bangin.
Speaker 4:What about banging on your Harley In the snow?
Speaker 3:Yeah, so where this this?
Speaker 2:whole snow thing comes from Our city here, mount Pleasant. They're redoing our downtown area. They're increasing the small park park and lot kind of stuff. So that's in the redesign.
Speaker 2:We had the Korean War Memorial right that was located at what we call town center and we have the World War One or World War Two just outside of the downtown area memorials. They were in kind of a terrible area because you really wasn't much parking, wasn't much area to stand to actually visit the memorials. I mean you could, but I mean you couldn't get a group of more than four or five people probably standing there at either or so through the city of Mount Pleasant, parks Parks Division and obviously the leadership of the city decided to get involved with the American Legion here in our VFW post, talked about moving everything down to the Michigan Vietnam Memorial it's the one, the big one for the state, as well as the global war on terror, yep, global war on terrorism monument down there. So we put they were through the budget, they were able to move the other monuments those three were World War One, world War Two and Korea down to Island Park where they're in consensual order consensual order Yep, yeah, that's close enough for good good enough for a Marine right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, close enough for infantry Marines.
Speaker 3:So they're going to end up.
Speaker 5:Not consensual, not consensual.
Speaker 2:Consensual, something like that. Right, so they're in order. Right, world War. One World War, two Korea.
Speaker 2:Sequential, yeah, sequential order yeah, that's what I'm talking about. And then they're going to be doing some more work down there with the sidewalks and stuff for access to those memorials. So we moved those three two weeks ago, on a Friday actually of all days that end up snowing, and our riders group had a couple bikes out there to help escort, along with the city police department, fire department and then the contractor that they had come move the memorials to our speaker, something like that. Yeah, those guys are awesome. I mean they were crazy respectful, super appreciative that you know we were escorting those memorials down there. The guys worked hard. They didn't even take a lunch. I mean they got it done in six hours when they straight worked and that was cold and not a very nice day, but it was.
Speaker 2:It was a cool thing for us to go do. I mean I think it was the commander from the American Legion was there helping, helping out where he couldn't and doing what he needed to do, and it was cool for the raiders group to be a part of that. I was. I was happy to do it because, you know, if our, our memorial ever got moved, I would hope that there was guys out there, like us that jumped out there and took a day, no matter what the conditions were, and made sure they were moved appropriately. So that was. That was something that was. That was pretty cool. It's been going on around here in town that our post has been involved in.
Speaker 4:We do a lot. We do a lot I mean I told Tim before I ran for vice president of the group is that I've been a part of this post for going on four years now, and it's time for me to step up and start taking more leadership role and donating more of my time, commit more of myself to this cause that we, that we all love. But I didn't realize how much we actually did, and I'm starting to find out that it's a lot, a lot. That's why we're on our posts every year, right Well?
Speaker 3:that's a and yes, we are. Usually for the last five out of six years we've been all state and then the last two years we've been all American and they're all American as a nationally recognized V F, w award. All state is a state recognized and basically to get that you have to have membership, memberships, the big thing, um, and then you have to do your reports, you have to go out in your community, you have to do the voice of democracy program, you have to do the Patriots 10 program, um, donate to Trotter, donate to national home. You got to do all this stuff and a lot of people say that because it's a donation of money that you buy your, you buy the all American, but you don't, because you should be doing this anyway. You shouldn't get an award for doing what you're supposed to do.
Speaker 4:You know well, not only that, how do we get the money? We go out work and go out and work for it.
Speaker 3:So we donate our time, we raise it.
Speaker 4:We raise. It's not like we're just all putting in some money.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we donated it.
Speaker 4:You know we got to work for that money, we got to work to get those donations to in order to donate it to who we donated to. So so it's not buying it. We're working hard for that.
Speaker 2:Well, that's what's crazy, right? You know, the writers group generates a lot of money, right, we do 5050 raffles, we do the breakfast, we do stuff like that, right, and through the month of December, what we spent this year was donation wise, right? So, either, you know, we spent some money for Special Olympics. We spend money for kids, christmas stuff, the toys for tots, I mean all the different stuff that we donate to the national homes, the camp Trotters. Our writers group has donated about $7500. And I don't have that, I'm just paraphrasing. That's probably a little bit more, might be closer to $7800 that we donated in one year. Right, and some of that, you know, donations go back, obviously, to our pulse, for things that need to be fixed and done and that kind of stuff. You know, like the mind, the podcast equipment. You know we donated to that because it's a good thing, but, yeah, I mean, so there's that membership works their asses off to generate that money.
Speaker 2:Right, and that's what we should be doing. Right, we should be spending the money in the community that supports us. So you know, but if you want to call it buying, whatever, doesn't matter. Those are the least. Like you say, those are the things that we should be doing right. We shouldn't always be taken right. I mean, we've served our communities before, we should still continue to serve them, and then, out of their generosity, they'll, they'll serve us back. Yep, right. So I mean you can't just be, can't just be one sided, especially as an organization like like ours. You know where it's take, take, take all the time. You have to give right and you're not a good steward of your community, I feel, if you're not giving back right. So that's what we do. But one of the one of the cool things the director over here hasn't said yet, but sounds like the Department of Michigan is looking at putting together an all state type program for the riders groups. Even Right.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we're, we're looking at doing something like that actually, charlie, help me, help me get some ideas for it. Well, I am like the unofficial official assistant director yeah that's true.
Speaker 3:So so I got had a chance to go to wine dot their posts down in Southeast Michigan and talk to the Fort district riders, and they seemed on board with it, other than one individual, which I'll work on that.
Speaker 3:But I think it'd be. I think it's a good way to bring the riders groups of Michigan together, because they all do a lot of stuff but they do it individually. And if we could do it together, I think it would grow the VFW membership, because you come back home from combat, right, you still, you still got that adrenaline going. What's the best way to keep your adrenaline going? Jump on a motorcycle and ride like your hair is on fire, okay, so so that that grows, that grows membership, and membership is our lifeblood. We don't, if we don't have membership, we can't do the stuff on Capitol Hill that we need to do for veterans to, to support the veterans that come home and that are owed a lot more than what they get. And the way we do that is by going to Capitol Hill and voicing our concerns and getting stuff, getting stuff put out there.
Speaker 2:Well, and kind of piggyback on that, but it's to make sure that the riders groups are doing what they're supposed to be doing.
Speaker 3:Yes right.
Speaker 2:So it's like getting their reports in on time every month, making sure their election reports once a year, but it's also making sure that they are out there doing the things in their community that they should be doing Right. So it's like being at different events and stuff, because that's that's recruiting Right. I mean, all of a sudden you get 10 or 12 VFW members, with with patches on, that show up to an event. There might be a veteran out there riding on his own or just at the event Well, didn't even know he had a VFW I like to ride and then all of a sudden that turns into an easy recruiting event. Right, absolutely, and it's. And you know we had this, this conversation about membership, membership, membership on the last podcast. The good, the bad and the ugly are just trying to always get membership right.
Speaker 2:It's like how do you get good members compared to just a name on a wall, right? I mean, there's two different kinds of kinds of members, right. There's active members that are doing stuff at the post and for the post and for the other veterans, and then there's guys that just walk their name on a wall and don't don't support, do anything. But I think this, this program, is great because it's it's point points based and there's like five or six different categories, right. And then you earn points based on putting the check in the box, say we did this, we did this, we did this, we did this. And if you earn enough points, then you end up. Then you end up earning an all state type golden motorcycle or whatever award it's going to be for that riders group and that's going to bring breed competition amongst riders groups because obviously we're all a type personality people, right. So we want, we always want to be the best, ain't that right? Right?
Speaker 2:So if you're the one group that didn't check enough boxes, guess what you're going to do next year? You're going to be the group that checks the boxes and when you check the boxes, that means you're out there doing good things, right? You're supporting the community or you're making sure your reports are in here, donating. It's not large amounts of money, it's like $50 or $25, you know. So with with a cap you could donate more, but you can't earn any extra points just by buying it, right, right? So once you spend a certain amount you're not going to get any more points and that's not even close to enough to what you need, right. But at least you're doing the things to support the VFW, support the membership, support the VFW agencies and you know we all like to walk into someone else's pulse and see what they got hanging on a wall, and we want, when they walk in ours, we want them to see that we're out there doing the right thing, because I think sometimes the riders groups get, get a bad name.
Speaker 2:It's like oh you know, the riders groups taking over the pulse.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's all about the riders group. They're the new fish in the sea.
Speaker 3:Yep, they're, they're the new shiny new toy.
Speaker 2:The shiny new pen.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think that's what it was to.
Speaker 4:I was a state leadership feel. Feel about riders groups. Um, you're in, you're in the no 10.
Speaker 5:So I would hope they they would love us, because our department commander is a member of one.
Speaker 4:I know that, but by and large.
Speaker 3:Okay, so so for the next, the riders groups are probably going to be stuck with me, unless I turn it down for the next three years. Kimberly Napoleon, the next department commander, she already asked me, yanka already asked me, um, and I think Larry Thayer is running for junior and he already asked me because, unfortunately, the way the I'm going to pause real quick.
Speaker 2:So anybody that doesn't know Larry Thayer, he has the best golf balls on the planet. Got his name on him he he hands about all the VFW golf onnings. Tim uses his golf balls and cannot lose them.
Speaker 2:He can hit him into the pond and they'll skip and then be up in the grass. If he has a brand new pro V one, he hits it. It's gone. It's at the bottom of the pond or it's in the middle of the woods. Larry Thayer's ball. Go in the woods and bounce out. They're that good. Sorry, I just had to come out because we were joking about that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, always smashing on my golf game that I don't have. So, um, and I put that out to him. I haven't gave him the template yet because I'm still talking to other riders, group presidents like Scott Taylor from Harrison he's, he's all in on that. He'd be all over that. Ross Common I don't know about Ross Common. They more or less just want to get a group of guys together and ride, so I don't know where they would be in that. Fowlerville is a little tricky right now. District fours. Bill Schaefer from District fours, like yeah, let's do it. Ray likes the idea, but it wouldn't take effect until Kimberley's year. Kimberley likes the idea, yacca likes the idea. So I think the leadership wants it. I think the leadership wants it to go forward Right.
Speaker 2:And not, and not just that, that program, but riders groups in general, I think. I think departments all in on it. One, because we're out there Doing the things that we should be doing and then at the end of the day, you know it's, it's, it's good for membership and it's good for it's good exposure, I mean, unless groups are out there not doing what they're supposed to do. But I think in the next three or four years riders groups are going to continue to be strong at the VFW level in the state of Michigan.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think. So we're going to try. I know something Ray has kind of pushed. Ray is kind of pushed, raised. Ray is kind of pushed for me to. Ray is kind of pushed for me to. I'm trying to think of what I'm trying to say. Ray is kind of pushed for me to make sure the riders group do the right thing. Ok, right, it's got to be, it's got to be VFW first. It's got to be VFW first, and then you're a riders group, right. Right, because there are some, there are some groups that have the motorcycle club mentality and that turns the members of the post off, and then there it goes.
Speaker 4:Right right.
Speaker 3:So so that's that's important, that we remember this as riders groups, and when new riders groups come on, that'll be up to me to say hey, hey guys, we're VFW first and then we're a riders group that helps the VFW, right? So so we'll see how that works out, hopefully, well, well.
Speaker 2:Did you just say we're riders?
Speaker 3:group oh.
Speaker 2:Did you just say we're riders groups first? Yeah, I messed that up.
Speaker 3:We're VFW first, riders group second.
Speaker 2:There we go. That's what I wanted to. Yeah, yeah, wanted to clarify that, because you know how my head is.
Speaker 3:It's all over the place, right. So With the reporting thing that you're talking about, the reporting thing is you would not believe post that do everything that they're supposed to do but they don't turn in a report.
Speaker 2:Hmm, hmm. Is that? Just laziness.
Speaker 3:It's. I don't want to do it because I don't have to. And they do have to because it's in the ritual and the bylaws. So so we got to have some technical difficulties.
Speaker 2:Difficulties. Yeah, the new deck of, please, you want to introduce yourself once you pick your microphone up Technical difficulties.
Speaker 8:Wow, he's gonna. He's gonna fucking hurt himself. I told you.
Speaker 3:It's not balanced, right man?
Speaker 8:She had no problem.
Speaker 2:Must be that that sexual, that sexual chocolate that's coming through.
Speaker 5:I'm going to get out of the house to y'all later All right man, all right, see you Take it easy. Shem you going to the post? Yeah, All right.
Speaker 3:I'll see you later. So just so everybody knows podcast tonight's back up at the AJ Skylounge.
Speaker 2:We just kind of come and go and people fill in and do what they got to do. It's actually located at my shop, my business, so you'll hear Grad doors, you'll hear people stop up and downstairs, you'll hear all kinds of crazy things on this thing. We'll be doing them up here for a while, I think, just because our posts are up here. We'll be doing them up here for a while, I think, just because our post is so busy all the time.
Speaker 3:Yeah yeah, Busy as hell man.
Speaker 2:But that's how we want it. Oh, no, 100%, and that's like say unfortunately. That's kind of why we're why we're here we should be wish we could do that to post, but there's just never a day. That place that's empty.
Speaker 8:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:I mean seven days a week. It's rocking.
Speaker 8:Exactly.
Speaker 2:So join the podcast, Breton.
Speaker 8:That's right, I just popped in. My name is Breton. I am a Navy veteran, the best branch there is.
Speaker 5:Oh my God, next to the other three.
Speaker 8:I did almost six years on active duty as a, as a corpsman, so mostly medical related things, good time and spent some time over in Bethesda, maryland, and then I have the Pearl Harbor for three years. So that was a. That was a good time to but spend some time overseas with a mobile surgical team and that was pretty much the culmination of my. I think it was five and a half years.
Speaker 2:And also some of what you've been missing. We've been talking quite a bit of rarest group of stuff, a little bit of stuff that's been going around here in town talked about, you know, moving the war memorials. A couple of weeks ago we talked a little bit about toys for tots and you know, especially nowadays right, the way that social media is used, you know, as far as promoting stuff.
Speaker 1:Absolutely.
Speaker 2:That's why we you know, we're fortunate enough to be able to get down to Chief Sawyer's place down in Shepherd and donate, and his Facebook's been blowing up with that post and we did talk about because Trey was talking earlier about this His ex-wife is deployed right now over the Middle East and cell phones. I got to get your take right, so like because you're younger, right, you're mid 30s. Right, we're mid 40s. Some of us are mid 60s, like Tim. But 60s.
Speaker 4:I thought he was in his 80s.
Speaker 3:Oh, okay, well y'all can bite me.
Speaker 2:But you know, with cell phones, right, he was like, I just talked to her, just like I'm like man we used to have to like, right, get the calling card and go to the phone bank and email that kind of thing. You know, nowadays it's so everything so readily available. I was asking what their take was. Do you think it would have been beneficial for you to have your iPhone over there? You could take a phone call at any time. Or was it better that you got to do it on your the time that was convenient for you?
Speaker 8:Well, first I'll say you know the old setup, the calling card and the whole nine, when I'll most of my time over there was in Djibouti, africa. So they didn't really have an infrastructure, at least even closely compared to anything in America, or maybe you know closer to them, maybe like Bahrain or so they didn't, they didn't have that. So they still, they still had that calling card setup. There's a trailer you could go into and call people at home. But I think my take on it, it absolutely would have been easier, it would have been nicer to, you know, be able to use my phone and if I remember correctly, I actually did use my phone, because today's day and age we all have these apps that we can download, and I recall downloading an app that would allow me to call home. It would scramble my number, so nobody ever knew it was me, but it worked off of Wi-Fi. So what little Wi-Fi we had we could still call. You know it was.
Speaker 4:It was an interesting Was that a Magic Jack, Magic Jack that's what it was. I remember when I was leaving Iraq that we actually had phones that were run through Magic Jack as long as they were plugged into the internet. It's a little Magic Jack thing, but now I guess it's apps. Use apps for that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, so what, what? What my thought was more or less right. Like you're, you're getting ready to go do an operation, you're going to do something and then all of a sudden, now you're distracted by a phone call from home. Or if you need to focus and concentrate on whatever mission that you were on, right, because if it's a 12-hour shift in the hospital or being part of a Medevac team or whatever you had going on, is that almost a detriment to this thing could ring and change your day. Vice, you decide to call home and find out what's going on, or decide to go check your email or whatever. To me, I think I liked the way it was, if I needed to do what I needed to do and I decided to call home in three days. I decided to call home in three days. Not, you know, the washing machine just died and my wife's calling bitching oh my God, or something you know what I mean.
Speaker 8:I could like be a man. I mean because that's that's.
Speaker 2:That's a distraction.
Speaker 8:I'm 10,000 miles away, honey. What am I going to do?
Speaker 2:Right, that's. That's kind of what I was trying to get at. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's not the convenience of being able to call home Over over, but it was just the distraction that maybe came from it being that easy to get ahold of you In that thought process, absolutely.
Speaker 8:I mean it's it's a little more elevated or escalated, I think, when you're in an active war zone or you're over there doing something that high level that we were doing. But I would still compare it to having your cell phone during your normal work day. You know that is our work over there, well.
Speaker 3:But this happened in a training exercise. Okay, when I first was in, I was in a scalpel too. That was a six man squad. I'm the squad leader. We have to probe a infantry company's lines to find out where the weak spot is, so that the other infantry company could attack that area. So we're there.
Speaker 3:It's dark. Of course. This is back in the early 1930s, yeah, before night vision. This is back in the early 1900s, so we didn't have any night vision. Okay, so what we used is binos, which, if the moon was out, would give you a pretty good look.
Speaker 3:So we're crawling up. I have my assistant squad leader on my left, I have my Point man on my right and then then behind us, pulling security, are the two drivers and the other 60 gunner. So here we go, we're going up and all of a sudden ring, ring, ring. I look back the dude behind me. We called him Mr Gadget. He was a private, and if Ranger Joe's were to be on the other side of the road and if Ranger Joe's was selling it, he bought it and he had his fucking cell phone on. Yes, he had his cell phone on.
Speaker 3:And, needless to say, all of a sudden flashlights out in the woods. You know they're hunting now and here we are a six man team with M16s. We didn't even have the good M4s at that time, we just had the junk M16s. And these guys are man squads coming out here, squads coming out here. So we had to hunker down underneath this tree and we had the radio. All of a sudden the radio cracks and I'm like. I looked at the guy carrying the radio and I'm like shut the fucker off man.
Speaker 3:And we sat under this tree until almost daylight while they were running around. And then when we finally got back to our little camp and I had to tell the police, I had to tell the platoon sergeant that yeah, we didn't, we didn't figure anything out. And he's like why? And I just looked at the dude and I said ask him. Yeah, he had the first sergeant ate his ass. It was amazing.
Speaker 8:So I don't know if today's day and age. If you want to say that he ate his ass, well, well you can take it the way you want, but but, you know that's one of them.
Speaker 3:One of them things where I am with Charlie. No, right, absolutely, leave the damn phones alone, man. Right, the news will get you to. Like Shem said, the news will get to you when it gets to you If something happens. Right, you know you don't need to. Your mind's got to be focused on the mission at hand.
Speaker 4:And this is where Now this is. This has gone into a whole another subject, but we could probably get somebody on on the line, sergeant Major, somebody that has troops overseas, and find out what they're doing about that. What are? They just because we're curious about that. I can tell you what they're doing.
Speaker 8:They probably just don't allow it.
Speaker 4:Well, that's what I'm thinking Like if you're going out on mission, no, you can't have your cell phone.
Speaker 8:Or I mean, it's an Opsac thing. Exactly, that's what GPS and everything. Getting ready to say that I'm literally a target. Yep, so you're talking about that.
Speaker 2:Do you guys remember back? Oh, this would have been probably 2010. Right, so you'd have been in middle school, but for our soldier guys, 2010.
Speaker 8:I remember I'm just kidding I was my first year in military, so you're nuts hadn't dropped yet, but it was.
Speaker 2:It was like the Fitbit.
Speaker 6:Remember the Fitbit running like you know, you wear a Fitbit and you go run.
Speaker 8:I think that was that was going with us. I remember that.
Speaker 2:So all these, military people in the Middle East. Right, they're wearing these Fitbits and it was literally tracking where they're walking, you know how many miles and all this different shit, and it was GPS tracking them and then they were getting those. That system was getting hacked into so the enemy could actually see where the troops were moving. Yep. And what they were doing. Remember that, yeah.
Speaker 2:So it's crazy to say, right, cell phones. I mean Google's listening to this going. What the hell are these guys talking about, you know, is they're tracking everything that we're saying Because these things are always on even if they're off, right, right, but I mean that was you talked about operational security, right? I mean that's, that's crazy stuff, that Mm-hmm, these cell phones. I guarantee you that everybody's here's the bin. I want to see 12 cell phones before we break wire, right, yeah?
Speaker 6:They all got to be in here before that gate, that gate open yeah.
Speaker 4:And you go. But even even being on base and using that phone, they're it's so easy to get into these things and to get into these systems especially, let's say, which I guarantee you nowadays that they're they have Wi-Fi all over their base. It's civilian run, yep, run by people from the economy, oh yeah. So what are they going to do when they, when they go home at night and you have to expect your shit's tapped.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I mean. And the terrorist comes to their door and says I need all that information. Well, what are they going to do? They're going to give it to them.
Speaker 2:That was our, that was our kitchen staff over there. Right, they came in clean and they did our food. They were all people from guitar or whatever, right I mean they were. They were the locals, right, contradited them to take care of us. But the same instance. Now you can actually get a way better accountability of how many people around that base If you could count how many different IP addresses or how many different cell phone numbers that are that are connecting through that base.
Speaker 2:I mean you could say, yeah, there's 1200 of them, yeah, oh, yeah, there's 200 of them.
Speaker 4:Because if you if everybody's carrying a device, it's and then you know, joe's emailing Susie back home talking about the mission when we're rolling out when it's going to happen. All that they're talking, they're talking about it, I'm there through their cell phones to their spouses. I got to leave out tomorrow, honey, and I could be able to talk to you for a day or two. We're going here, we're going there.
Speaker 8:You know what's happening, and so I don't know how they're controlling that nowadays, but they, they have to On land that's got to be really interesting and I'd I'd be interested to hear from Sergeant Major or somebody to see what they say. But I can tell you from the Navy's perspective when you're out in the middle of the ocean and you can't see land, you also don't have cell phone signal or Wi-Fi. You get the Wi-Fi that the ship has installed and by the simple order of the commander or, in my case, the captain, the captain of the ship will shut everything down. The only people who have access to internet are the people who have access to the secured whatever they call it Navigations and communications.
Speaker 2:Navigations, communications yeah.
Speaker 8:Your email. Oh, and that's the other thing. Everybody's email is scanned Like Right, that's you know, and many, many emissions, many, many of movements that are being made. Many of movements were were shut. Everybody was shut down, like two days before we even moved.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so. So like when we left Bahrain, when I was at my fast team and we went into the guitar.
Speaker 4:I think we might have a good person to talk about this.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you might actually know when Joe gets in here. But we actually had a script to read, right? So I had Lieutenant sitting next to me, I had a phone, he had a phone. I gave him the number. He calls my wife back here. I had a script to read. Oh hey, it's me, how's it going? We got, we got a few minutes to talk, all that kind of stuff. I remember.
Speaker 2:And then, and then at the end of the day, as I'm reading through the script, if I said anything outside the bounds of that script, he'd hang up the phone. So there was a delay, right. So Jim would talk, it'd go to him and come to me and then I could reply to go to him and then go to her with seconds delay, right, and if you screwed it up at all, the phone call is done and it literally was. You might not hear from me for 30 to 45 days, right? So, and basically no news is good news nowadays. You know, just like, just like what Brent was just saying, that captain of the ship shuts it down, it's down. I mean there's no Anzifer Watts, because operational security is huge, right, because they always want to know how many people are leaving and who's coming and who's going and all that kind of different stuff, right, where you headed to, and probably nowadays that's probably a huge issue.
Speaker 4:But yeah, we just had somebody come in Joe. Joe when did you get out of the army 2017. Did you, were you doing IT stuff over there? Yes, OK, so um shoot.
Speaker 2:Introduce yourself real quick, just so people know who you are.
Speaker 7:Joseph Gates, I did almost 10 years as a 25 Bravo in the army, a deployment for you in Iraq and a deployment for your Afghanistan.
Speaker 2:Proud Post-3033 member.
Speaker 3:That's right, that's right Agident webmaster and super-tact. Writer of a green crotch rocket, for the love of God.
Speaker 4:And part of the Writers Group.
Speaker 2:Part of the Writers.
Speaker 4:Group. So we've been talking about communications overseas when we're deployed, like my ex-wife. I was just telling them that my ex-wife we share a child together. She's here with me and she called me like that. She's over in the Middle East right now. She called me today, just like that. We were talking about some stuff about our daughter, but I could pick up the phone and call her right now on her iPhone because of the Wi-Fi connection situation over there. So we're just wondering what are they doing nowadays to protect people? Obsess, obsess, yep. What are they doing about obsess over there nowadays?
Speaker 7:I don't know. I was over. Something happened. A lot of times they wanted us to shut the network down so people could get anything out prior to family members back home knowing anything happened. That was the rule of thumb. But you know that wasn't it. Oftentimes it was just a respect thing. We didn't actually shut it down, we just knew, hey, don't say anything until you got the word back that the family's been notified.
Speaker 4:Right Now, what about those civilian networks and putting on those fobs? You guys have to have control of that. You guys have to have control of it, right? And you know what? My ex-wife is a 25 Bravo. She's a warrant officer. She probably would be a good one to speak to this. You call her ma'am.
Speaker 2:Hell no, stand at attention. Hell no, slew her every time.
Speaker 4:Yeah, we know, we know, yeah, we got you no so.
Speaker 2:I mean part of. I think what he's kind of talking about too is you have subcontractors that come out right, they're cooking, they're cleaning, they're doing the laundry, they're doing those things right. So they're obviously connected to their local cell phone networks or whatever. Is there like some sort of thing that's put up that makes their phones dead zones while they're on base?
Speaker 7:Nope, we just had specific areas that we knew that you could not take your cell phone into. For instance, there was like a weekly standup we would do, where we'd get reports from new companies and from FOBS about the current ID threats. We had a container outside the room because they were Rochon phones. They were owned by the Russians actually, so we turned them off and put them in these little boxes prior to coming in.
Speaker 2:Really, so that's actually good news, then OK so the Russians have control of the phone?
Speaker 4:No, no, no that they're actually confiscating them.
Speaker 2:They're locking them up so they can't be used while they're there.
Speaker 3:Right when I was there, any contractor on the FOB had a contractor that was American that followed him around everywhere. He went everywhere. So we had our guy that provided the internet and IT. One day about 1 o'clock he's like I've got to go, got to go, got to go home, so he takes off. He wasn't off the FOB for like 10 minutes and we got rocketed.
Speaker 4:Oh my god, we got rocketed, yep.
Speaker 3:So he knew what was going on. So then we, you know, hey, foolish wants shame on us, right? So OK, so we put a squad to watch him. I don't remember who had the base security, so to speak, but they watched him. Next day. There's that old Rusty yeah, this was on Rusty Mine. The next day they see a guy kind of looking around and he'd take a step, look around, take another step, look around, take another step. And from where he was at, he ended up at the side of a building. It was the gym where everybody went to work out, right? So a couple of days later, a fucking gym gets hit. Luckily it was in the afternoon and nobody was in it, because everybody was out on mission or sleeping, getting ready to go out. For well, the third day yeah, third day was hey, come here, we're going to baptize you, oh man. And they scooped him up and took him off and put him in their little jail and called in the interrogators and stuff like that.
Speaker 4:But yeah, hey guys probably sit down in Guantanamo Bay right now. He's probably sitting in a good old Cuba. Getting a suntan.
Speaker 3:That's right.
Speaker 2:So it's crazy and the unfortunate part is right. You have to trust the local nationals right to do that stuff. I mean, we're not going to send cooks and cleaners overseas for a year here, Wish good because I obviously trust Americans more than I'm going to trust the local Iraqi population, some of them.
Speaker 3:Some of them.
Speaker 2:There was actually. I mean, there's a lot of them that are there to support us, and they're there for the right reasons. I mean they want the change. But the same instance though they're being threatened that we don't see, and stuff like that too.
Speaker 3:So I mean there's all kinds of differences. I can speak on that too. I worked with two interpreters because I worked in the headquarters section. Joe and Randy that's the names we gave them. I don't know what their real names were. So what we did is we worked with the Iraqi police. We trained them, showed them how to patrol things of that nature, and Randy and Joe, when they were on shift, if I had a problem at a police station they would get on the phone and they would call the police station and they would do their. And Joe or Randy was just a little guy.
Speaker 8:You do that again. I just I didn't know.
Speaker 4:You only get one.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you were in the Navy. You probably got excited.
Speaker 3:So, so so Randy just gets on the phone and just choose this guy. Oh, so then I get a radio call from the section that's down there and he's like, yep, everything's good now. Tell Randy, good job. I don't know what he said, but good job. So I started talking to Randy and I'm like what did you tell him? He said I told him that he better get his head out of his ass because if he doesn't, they're going to think that you, the police chief, are crooked and they're going to arrest you and take you and throw you in Cuba. And the sad part of this is when we come home. Randy went home on leave and the mighty militia got him and hung him up in a tree and skinned him.
Speaker 3:Yeah it's fucked up. The guy was and he was. He was like three weeks away from getting coming over, coming over here. Yeah, I mean, he was in there, he was. He got wounded with the 101st early on in the war, blew his leg up, barely could walk. But the guy was so cool man, he was just a great dude.
Speaker 4:We did not. We did not do a good job of taking care of those interpreters that took care of us. We did not and it's a shame. Shame. We got to do better as a country when we, when we go overseas and we use those interpreters, because they definitely become targets and their family and their families Yep. Yep.
Speaker 7:We had one where we were doing like a piece of the ID, like take them out and give them safe and stuff like that for the Iraqi police, and this interpreter came with us for their final training mission. We're just taking them out to this huge sand berm and blow some crap up and call it a day. On the way out I told the interpreter that was in the vehicle with us hey, we have a bunch of the foreign nationalism here. You guys need to stay awake. It makes you touch my crap. Well, we get to where we're going.
Speaker 7:The Iraqi police get out, the interpreter gets out, my driver myself put down the road to the way post security. We get down there and do comms check Nothing on the radio. I do comms check, nothing's coming back. Thankfully I had the field device on me in my pocket, so when I refilled the device on the way out, somebody had pulled the lever on the radio and pulled it up. It turned it off and the radios were famous for losing their fill. So if I wouldn't have had that stuff on me, we wouldn't have been able to call back and tell them hey, we're out here, we're set. Or if something had happened, we might have communicated.
Speaker 3:And what were they called? They did the fills the radios.
Speaker 7:It was the old style one, I feel it was called now.
Speaker 5:The ANC.
Speaker 2:I think, Pricky's seven.
Speaker 3:Pricky's seven. Yes, because when I was over there, my buddy Chief Bansmer. He's a Chief Warrant Three now, but when he was over there he was our commo guy. And he had a hell of a time with them losing their fill.
Speaker 7:They were telling the truck to turn off. Yep, go, bye-bye, yep.
Speaker 3:Had a really hard time with that. And what about the Blue Force Tracker guys? Oh my god.
Speaker 4:Bring back some memories from me. I totally forgot about that.
Speaker 3:I mean, the system overall is a good system because you can track every truck, but it's kind of hard to remember when there's so many units on one satellite that it takes three years for the old one to come off and the new one. So I had to remember what the unit before me's ID numbers was, because otherwise I wasn't able to track the trucks. But it was a cool system. Did you know about it? You seen it? Yeah, we used them. Ok, it was basically a satellite tracked your vehicle and you could tell if the vehicle's moving stopped in the wrong country. Not that that ever happened. Nobody ever ended up in Iran and it's a really cool system, but it was just too.
Speaker 2:Does it map it like GPS?
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So you could see it on a road map.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah. If they're going down route wild, you can see the two vehicles hauling down. If they stop, boom, you can say hey, why'd you stop? You sent messages across to it, Yep you can type in messages across to it. It's the whole nine yards. That was cool. It's cool as shit, but the system didn't work for a while because too garbled, too much information trying to go off of a small platform.
Speaker 2:You couldn't, though, but you couldn't take other units vehicles off, what you're seeing or no?
Speaker 3:No, what I'm saying is, I believe, the IT people. When you come out on a fob, the IT people who and I think our IT people were a couple guys from the Navy and they would go in there and they'd get your call signs like Hooligan 6, hooligan 7, whatever, whatever, whatever, and then they would go and type it in to your truck and then they'd upload it to the satellite. So then you should be Hooligan 7. Should show up on the map. Show up on the map. But because it was so garbled and it was so overused, I might be looking at, I'm just going to say a 7, but it wouldn't be a my 7. It wouldn't say Hooligan 7. It'd be like Red, 7.
Speaker 2:Right, but that's what I'm trying to ask. You couldn't see just your vehicles. You'd see everybody's vehicles.
Speaker 3:No, I would track my vehicles, but I could see everybody's vehicle if I wanted to.
Speaker 2:Well, that's what I'm saying. That's probably what made it garbled. You're looking at all these other units, vehicles when you just want to specifically look at yours. You couldn't map it down or take away everybody else's vehicles and just see just yours. You have to see everything. So if there's 8,000 pieces of equipment moving around. You're seeing 8,000 vehicles on the screen.
Speaker 7:Well, part of the idea with that system was so that we wouldn't have friendly fire instance happening. You're thinking that, hey, that's an enemy truck coming through and in reality it's one of us.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I get it. But I mean, if you're all leaving and trying to get out, you could pop them. You could pop every other vehicle up and you could take them away to just focus on yours, and then, as you're moving, you could pop everybody else back up or get rid of them, just to make it less confusing when you're trying to move.
Speaker 3:I think you could bring it down to just yours because, if I remember right, 100%.
Speaker 2:That makes sense right.
Speaker 3:If I remember right, I had to have Ryan come in because, again, I'm not the tech savvy guy Flip phone. Flip phone New riders group name flip phone. So I had to have Ryan come in because I was looking for a certain squad and I think there was a way that you could change it to where you could go to that group of trucks. You could type in their numbers and they would come up, or type in their numbers and they would come up, so you're not really seeing everybody, but everybody's using the system at the same time.
Speaker 2:So everybody in theater was working off the same, which makes sense. But I was just asking if there was a way to pare it down and you could expand it to every unit. You could expand it to just a few or just yours, because I mean, I'm sure it's got to be hard to look.
Speaker 2:I mean if you jump on GPS and you look at Mission Street, that's like seeing every vehicle that's on Mission Street right now. I mean you wouldn't be able to tell one to the next and that'd be flying all over the place. It'd be hard to probably keep track of.
Speaker 3:Oh it is, it definitely is. But it was a pretty cool system. I could see, if it was dispersed a little more, how it would work. And, like Joe said, with a friendly fire you could track even infantry companies Alpha Company, bravo Company, charlie Company and somebody could be in a head shed back in a secure fob, given direction to the commanders on the ground hey, you guys, you're moving in front of the other company, you need to go left. I think that would be cool if they could really, and maybe they have, I don't know.
Speaker 8:Kind of like an air traffic controller, but for the land.
Speaker 3:Yeah, something like that yeah.
Speaker 2:That's just bizarre. I mean you could go right down to the man. You know what I mean. Yeah, level, that's just got to be a lot to look at. Oh yeah, Keep tracking. But it's kind of probably cool to see all the different moving pieces and you can make sure that they're moving in the right spot, because we didn't have that type of system right Nope. I mean, we went on as a 25 man, and that was it.
Speaker 4:Well, it's what they send us to battle staff for. I don't know if you ever went to battle staff, Tim, but send us battle staff so we can understand. All of those pieces, all those symbols, everything that you're looking at on a battlefield from the S shop, the S1? No?
Speaker 3:S1 was at your supply.
Speaker 2:Admin.
Speaker 3:S3.
Speaker 4:Operations. Yeah. If you're looking at everything from the operations standpoint and you're looking at that blue force tracker. You're looking at where all these pieces are and all the symbolism on this map, what it means and everything like that. That's really high speed.
Speaker 7:Really high speed and it prevents you because back in the old days they had to map everything manually, which is always way behind where everybody's actually at. So when you look at this, they're actually at this location. They're not moving there. They're actually there.
Speaker 2:Yep. Well, we use sand tables.
Speaker 8:What came to mind for me when you said that was the scene from we Were Soldiers. When he calls out Broken Arrow, and then the camera pans to the war room and they literally have the physical map.
Speaker 3:Yeah, sand table, yeah Sand table Yep.
Speaker 2:That was one of my favorite things to do was build the sand table Yep.
Speaker 3:That was pretty cool. I seen a. We had a cadet, I think, from Central come over and he was working as part of his drill and he made one and it was pretty fucking high speed yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, the whole point is so that once the direction comes down, you bring your fire team, your squad, in and you run over the table, man, and everybody could see Everybody could train, they could see the terrain, the mountains.
Speaker 3:So when you get on ground you're going oh yeah, this is that little mountain on the sand table, that's a big mountain right now. Yep.
Speaker 2:That was pretty cool. Sand tables.
Speaker 3:And another thing I hated talking about GPSs and stuff is the plugger. I had so much problem with that. I had privates come out of basic and again, guard units didn't get a lot of them. Ok, so we had to rely on the old school map reading oh yeah, protractor compass map.
Speaker 3:And I had this private come up to me and it actually was Mr Gadget. He come up to me and he's like Sergeant, why do we have to go through this map reading class? And I looked at him and I said, well, so that you can know where you're going, you know you've got to be able to navigate. And he goes well, I can just plunge it into my plugger and I'll know where to go. And I said, oh cool, because we were doing the class and we had the plugger. And I said, well, let me see that he handed it to me. I was like, ok, that's pretty cool. I said you learned this in basic, right? And he goes yeah, and I goes, ok, I dumped the batteries out, handed it back to him, threw the batteries in the fucking woods and said good luck. Oh man.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I remember mappering. I wonder if they still do that PLDC. They don't call it PLDC.
Speaker 3:No, it's a Warriors leader course. Wlc, yeah, wlc.
Speaker 4:And being on the ground actually reading the map and trying to find your points they should I know, even going through as far as when I got out we were still sitting down.
Speaker 7:Every so often You'd go over land now on the classroom and if you got lucky, they'd take you out in the woods and have you do it. I can't tell you how many times we sat around the table and said well, these are the colors, this is how you do the grid, squares and all that stuff. But it wasn't.
Speaker 7:Very often they were like all right, now we're going up to the field, we finally did one, we finally did a night one one year and they ended up telling everybody you can take your phones with you, but they're going to be in an envelope, so if you need help, do not take them on that envelope. Well, one of my soldiers happened to be in the same team as the command team was. The commander was. They went out and they get back and we're like how did you guys get back so quick? The commander pulled out his phone.
Speaker 4:Imagine that, imagine that.
Speaker 7:The commander, the one who made the rules.
Speaker 4:They're the ones they always do that, those officers boy. I remember when I was in Iraq the second time my commander never showed up for PT. One morning he decided to show up for PT. I took his ass on a 12 mile run. I was out at Al-Assad, it was an air base.
Speaker 3:You're fat ass, can't run.
Speaker 4:Well I could. Back then Was this when you were a drill sergeant. It was that Slightly after that, a little bit after that, and I was in shape. I was in the military active duty full time, so I took him on a 12 mile run. He never came back to PT again the whole time, Not once.
Speaker 8:That was good. Can we jump back to land nav for a minute From the Navy's perspective? We don't learn land nav and I hear all these jokes about who's in charge of the lieutenant, so they're not getting lost. Is it really that complicated to read a map? Yeah, Can be. I mean because I've never been through anything land nav.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and the thing about it is you have to go from this point and find this point and you would think, looking at your map, it's easy to do that. You could walk straight. Yeah, just walk straight and find your point. No there's all kinds of terrain that you got to navigate. I mean you could be off just a couple of half a degree.
Speaker 1:And you're way over there and missing Point is way over there.
Speaker 4:Yeah, so you got to be pretty much on point with your land nav and figuring out where you're going.
Speaker 7:I always don't mind with the train association and the accounting thing, and then when I went to do my first night land nav, that fucked me yeah.
Speaker 4:Yeah, god forbid that you go to WLC in Korea, because I did their land nav course over there. I was a staff sergeant at the time too. And boy, there's a lot of mountains over there in Korea, and trying to find your point when you're walking over terrain like that it's pretty tough. I did my WLC at.
Speaker 4:Fort Landerwood, missouri, lost in the woods Lost in the woods, Yep, and it was a lot of hills and stuff, but not like Korea. Korea is like a mountain and my sergeant major was like you guys are going to go out there and you're going to go through what your soldiers go through. I was like shit.
Speaker 3:OK.
Speaker 2:So in the Marine Corps we don't go over land nav at all in boot camp, right, they're just making basic Marines, that's it. So you get to school of infantry and that's where you hit land nav, right, so they treat you the basic rifleman, more stuff, right as far as infantry goes.
Speaker 2:And then especially schools for machine gunners, mortar men's back in my day it was small stuff like that, but you hit land nav there and then of course it's straight all the time Land nav, land nav, land nav, land nav when you get to the fleet or anywhere else. And I did the jungle warfare package over in Okinawa and that was a whole different beast, because that canopy oh yeah, that's all you have right, you're standing and it's a two day land nav course.
Speaker 2:So you get paired up and they take your MREs, you take stuff to Hooch down at night and you take off, and as soon as you get in the jungle you get in about a quarter mile, half mile, and it's dark, it might as well be midnight. You can't hardly see anything, shadows are screwing with you and it's just like you're saying, right, it's the mountains, the hills, it's the streams, the rivers. Because you think, right, I'm just going to walk three miles this way, get to this, can. I got to write the number that's inside the can down and then you walk to the next one, right. But when you're going to go across a river that's huge or steep cliff, I'm going to have to walk a quarter mile that way, cross the river in a shallow spot, and then I got to figure out my quarter mile back and then get back on that Asmuth. So you have to count steps. Right, I took 48 steps and I went to this way. Then I took another 350 that way before I could cross. Then you got to come back that same amount of steps with any type of offset to get around another obstacle, right?
Speaker 2:So it's like they're saying a half a degree over a two mile walk can be, you could be off 400 yards from where you actually need to be at. So it's pretty wild. It'd be like a ship. I mean, if they're off a degree by the time they go from one side of the ocean. They're talking England to Africa, probably difference. You know what I'm saying. I mean it could be that crazy, just one degree. So yeah, I always like landf. I always found it fun Because it's a crazy challenge and I still have one of my maps from 29 palms that we use for landf.
Speaker 2:I still have all this grid square design. I still got my compass. I still have a lot of stuff. So we actually pulled some of that stuff out. The other day at the house, when I was putting Christmas runs away, I pulled out an old box. I was like what's in here? And I opened it up. I'm like we still got that map. That's pretty awesome yeah.
Speaker 3:And coming up through the ranks, that leadership. Once you hit E5, you're supposed to be really good at landf. Right, that's the one thing that scared the devil out of me. I was always like fuck, I don't want to be lost. And I was a little different because we navigated out of vehicles, all right. So you had to keep your pace by the odometer, so you and the driver had to be on the same sheet of music. It's a whole different animal. That's way different. It's way different because for everybody out there that doesn't know, 1,000 meters is 6 tenths of a mile. Ok, so we took off and let's say we had to go three clicks. We had to go three clicks and then take a right. I would have to tell the driver, ok, what's my odometer reading? And he'd tell me now I have to calculate 6 tenths 12. And then, ok, when you get to this on your odometer, we'd be taking a right. And then you got to do the terrain association. I mean, it's a lot different in a vehicle than it is Make sure you drive straight.
Speaker 1:Yep, you got to drive straight.
Speaker 3:Yep so, and we used to go to Drailing all the time. And after you go there 10 times, you say hey you remember where the Lieutenant got blasted with the CS gas.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah.
Speaker 3:Well, we're going there, ok, so you drive there. You already got his old hat, yeah. Then we went to Panama, down to Jungle Warfare School. Oh, fuck me, running man. I was like I don't want to be here because the jungle takes you where it wants you to go.
Speaker 2:I mean there's a spot that you can't walk in and then it's just dark.
Speaker 4:Yep I mean don't forget to check your declination diagram. You remember that. Yep True north at your azimuth. You know your true north and your grid north. Yep, two totally different, yeah, two totally different things, because if you don't do that, you're going to be off. You're going to be off Big time. Yeah, that's crazy and every map is different too. On that declination diagram, Every map is different, so you've got to make sure you check your map.
Speaker 3:See when I was in it and going to Grayling. Not that big a difference like two degrees Right.
Speaker 1:So we didn't even play with it.
Speaker 3:Two degrees, we're traveling. A couple clicks, not that big a deal, we'll find it. But when I was down in Little Rock, arkansas, now it's like 12 degrees. So two clicks at 12 degrees I'm going to be in Texas. Yeah, that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 2:I mean, it can definitely throw you off, yeah, but land nav was always one of those things, if you just concentrate. It took your time.
Speaker 7:Right.
Speaker 2:You'll nail it every time. I think people would get in their own head, or they want to be the first to be done. Or they want to get there quick or do something, and that's when the mistakes happen.
Speaker 4:That was me. I was smooth as Yep. I took my time. I took my time when I was doing that in land nav. Yeah, you have to, yeah.
Speaker 7:Because, I see guys out there running. Yeah, oh yeah, they'd plot everything down.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I see an idiot do that too and he failed B-knock because he couldn't land nav. And he was an infantry guy and I know he could land nav because he was out of a Bravo company and I was out of a combat support company. So I knew the dude. We actually worked together and I told him he's like I'm going to get the record for this, I'm going to get the record for this. I'm like no Dude, that's a dude, you're going to miss something. Sure enough, he did and they sent his ass home.
Speaker 4:That declination diagram. Yeah, he forgot to add that in. Yep. So it was good times. Good times, you guys, really bringing back some memories from here.
Speaker 3:I loved it. I loved the army, I loved it.
Speaker 4:I did too. I got to a point where it was so much mandatory training, and at the end of my 20 years I was like I can't wait to be done with this and never have to do mandatory training again, or mandatory fun.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you got to go to the oil club because that wasn't so bad.
Speaker 4:The mandatory training was just so much of it, and I get it. You got to check the box. You got to make sure that your soldiers are trained on sexual harassment.
Speaker 2:they're not pinching each other's booties or whatever, just because they weren't saying good game.
Speaker 3:That's right. They got to say good game or sexual harassment.
Speaker 4:Yeah, so, but boy, it just got to be so much, so much. And when I was getting ready to leave, when I was getting ready to retire, and I think it was maybe three months left, and my first sergeant was talking about some mandatory training, I'm like first sergeant, come on, come on now. And she finally was like yeah, yeah you're right, sergeant Porto. Ok, ok, don't worry about it. I was like thank you, I'm out of here, so just leave me the fuck alone.
Speaker 7:That sort of stuff is why I enjoy being deployed more than being staysite. Yeah, you didn't have to do one end of your job and you're left alone Yep.
Speaker 4:Yep, it was just so much, so much and you probably remember it. You said 2017, you got out, so you probably remember all that stuff, especially around then, that they had us doing just so much. It was online stuff. It go in one part of your brain and right out the other as soon as you Pass your little class and click your whatever. That's the only thing that, like, if it wasn't for that, I probably would have stayed 30 years in the military, but that all that mandatory training was just it was.
Speaker 7:It was so annoying for us that we would take turns, so there was like something like 20 or 30 class. We had to get through and I had four guys in my section so they signed each one of us five or six classes. You turn the class and at the end you save the certificate. Right click on it and then we edit the code. Oh my god. Print it off and then hand it to our admin guy. Like it didn't upload, here you go and he'd upload for us, I would Fuck and have your ass in a sling man.
Speaker 6:That's the tech guy, yeah, no shit way to scan the system E4 mafia right there, this is this is.
Speaker 2:This is the part of these podcasts, right. It's just a bunch of us sitting around talking about stuff that hopefully the listeners out there going. You know I remember doing all this stuff and it's just a bunch of guys just be awesome yeah you know, just having a good time. That's what it should be about.
Speaker 8:Yeah, oh yeah just don't tell too many of the E4 mafia secrets because they will still come after.
Speaker 4:We were all part of E4 mafia at one point time.
Speaker 8:I think the most hated required training that I had and I don't know if it was the same for Army and Marine Corps, but it was the yearly. It was kind of like operational security but more specifically to like Computer systems and stuff. You had to go through the email fishing and like and it was this whole like animated Thing and you were walking through an office and it was the dumbest thing and it never changed from year to year.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yep, yep, I remember that.
Speaker 3:I was in the infantry, we didn't have to do that man.
Speaker 4:No, I didn't either. Well, when did you, when did you were, when did you get out? Oh, too. And then you were oh Wait, oh wait. Yeah, it got pretty bad, I'd say after after the whole Iraq war and everything like that just seemed like after 2010 it just got worse, worse, worse like, I'm adding to it.
Speaker 4:You heard what Joe just said. It's a 2030 classes you gotta get through. I mean it got ridiculous and it wasn't like that you know earlier in my career. But Lord have mercy just got. She's something I couldn't deal with.
Speaker 3:See mob, yeah, something I couldn't deal with and I but I sort I had to, but I just made sure I stayed away from. It is Working with women.
Speaker 4:Nothing wrong with that. Nothing wrong with that. We really want to go into this.
Speaker 3:Maybe, maybe we save it for another day, I don't know. I mean, I'm just saying that I, I Say I, just I'm. I seen a lot of stuff in Iraq because we were attached to an MP company or MP battalion. So they had women, they had females and I just I seen a lot of stuff that I Was glad that infantry company Didn't have to do that.
Speaker 4:They now can that women can now be infantry.
Speaker 3:Yeah, but I don't believe they mix the companies no they have to.
Speaker 4:They can't have a whole female Company full of female infantry soldiers.
Speaker 3:I guess, I don't know when.
Speaker 4:I wouldn't believe that.
Speaker 2:Well, I'm glad I'm out then probably not enough of them to be able to do that. So actually the Marine Corps just switched over to have a mixed training is for base bootcamp right, so basic, but they sleep in a separate squad bay but they train together every day, right? So it's gonna be interesting when, when my son Andy takes off here in June 14th, right for bootcamp, it's gonna be interesting to hear how wait how they have females and males sleeping in the same day.
Speaker 2:Oh, okay, so the males have their like. Just for instance, our Buildings are three stories right where I came from from San Diego. So basically, like the males would be on the on the first floor right, females would be sleeping on the second. But, they would train together during the day. They sleep separate at night, right? So I'm assuming?
Speaker 3:The arm is. Doesn't say probably, yeah, it does, it does but I thought basic with within the army. I thought they had female basic training and add mail.
Speaker 4:No, it's all mixed together now, when what they do is they have separate bays. Yeah, so Male bays are over here, female bays are over here. Same kind of like you, and Don't get caught over in that female bay, or females, don't get caught in the albay. Yes.
Speaker 2:I'm gonna guess, and I don't know, because this is pretty recent they just shut down. We used to have the fourth recruit battalion, which was where the females Marines went or recruits went, right, they they shut that down year, a year and a half ago, so now they're all doing it together. So, I'm. It's gonna be interesting to see that they will be. So you know which which I agree, I mean they should train together. You have to work together, so you might as well start right out the gate being together.
Speaker 2:Yeah but that was like a long-held tradition that the Marine Corps has always had. Right is separate for boot camp, but obviously when you get to the fleet or or whatever your assignment is, then then you're working together. I think that probably had caused some problems, right, because you're not training together. So, right, I think a lot of males saw the females differently Because they're not necessarily training together. They don't really know what they're doing, kind of thing. I mean, they're all doing the same thing, right, their pull-ups are different there.
Speaker 2:Yeah run times are different, all that stuff. But I mean, I think it's good to have a cohesive unit, but I was also glad that I didn't have I would. I didn't directly work with females all the time Because I I don't want to say it'd be a distraction, but I think it could be a distraction.
Speaker 8:It is a distraction you said you were a drill instructor. I was yeah so was this going on when you were actively a DI? No, what was what? The? The, the females and males training together.
Speaker 4:Oh yeah, yeah, so this wasn't how long ago, was that 2003. I became okay, so it's been a minute.
Speaker 8:Yeah, all right, cuz it was the same thing with the Navy. We had my division in recruit. Training was not co-ed, it was an all-male division. But there was another division in the same building With this exact setup and that was 2010. So I just I just kind of assumed that that was normal.
Speaker 4:You know. You know what we should do Is get um. We got a couple of female VFW members. We get them up here and have a discussion.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that'd be good because I listen.
Speaker 4:Females in the military. They, they fulfill a vital role absolutely and I want to. I want to make that clear. I'm not saying anything against it, I'm saying for me right for me.
Speaker 3:I'm glad that I didn't have to deal with it, because I would I would take it as an distraction.
Speaker 4:Well, I can tell you what what would happen is is you would, you would get used to it and you would conform well absolutely.
Speaker 3:You don't have a choice. Right, right, right, you're in the damn military. Right, they say guess what? This is what you have to do. Then, right, you got two choices Do it or get article 15.
Speaker 4:No, right, yeah, exactly, I mean, you know, there were those, those, those Soldiers that couldn't handle it, especially once it all integrated right. And what happened to them? They had to go.
Speaker 7:Yeah, I know myself, I'm just gonna ask Joe, you, you get out.
Speaker 2:17 means you're in 12.
Speaker 7:Yeah, I went in and oh seven.
Speaker 2:Oh seven. Yep, so you were you were integrated down a bootcamp. Nope, that was a bending.
Speaker 7:Bending was male Okay yeah, we're in a couple of places I know we're integrated enough. For myself, when I went from Benning doing the basic training, my ait Gordon the first drill instructor we had there that came out to us like that was female. It was a little adjusting like wait, this is different, because last nine months, yeah, I gotta take her serious. Oh. I saw was male yeah.
Speaker 3:So I want to. Latvia was a lot of you. Yeah, it was Latvia in like 96. Is that one? The Olympic bomber happened.
Speaker 4:Yeah, okay.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah okay, I was in Latvia and and there is a can only imagine. There is there's a group of Americans, there's a marine platoon, there is a guard platoon from Michigan and a guard platoon from Pennsylvania. Okay, and then the marine Lieutenant right, who? Who's a Company leader in the Marines? Is it a captain?
Speaker 3:Yeah, usually it's a captain Okay so there's a, there's a captain, there's a captain, in three platoon. So we had a infantry company, right? Well, then we had a platoon from Switzerland, norway and once I Sweden. But anyway, we were over there under a thing called partners for peace. It's when the Soviet Union broke up, right, right and so we're, we're in the damn shower.
Speaker 3:You know no big deal. We're taking a shower after training. All of a sudden we hear, we turn around and the Swiss there's three girls standing in the shower with them, you know, and the American guys are like hiding their junk Because we're like what the hell is going on here. So later on we got to talking about them and that's how they train, they train, and it was an infantry group, right? They?
Speaker 3:said no, they're gonna fight with us, they're gonna sleep with us, they're gonna shower with us. And I'm like, dude, I couldn't deal with that. I'd be in a fox hole with a chick and it's cold out and it's dark. Oh no, no, this, I'm sorry that ain't gonna work.
Speaker 2:This just goes to show the cultural differences.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, look at like absolutely real right now.
Speaker 2:I mean, look at their defense force, right. I mean there Women staying on the front lines.
Speaker 3:Oh, and I see, and when I was in Egypt we went into Israel and I seen some badass Israeli women went to.
Speaker 2:Uh-huh.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 2:We treat our women with with kid gloves, I think yeah, so I think when we go for us, that have gone over and we see the way that all their cultures are they're. They're no different than a man. They're gonna do everything we do. They're not gonna be treated any different. Yeah.
Speaker 4:Well, I think we're moving in that direction. We're getting better at it. Not really well, I know we are. I Just don't know if we should.
Speaker 3:Yeah well, when I went to Lithuania same thing, partners for peace they had a 7th Dragoon division, which basically is like a cavalry kind of thing, and they did put on a display and there's, there's a couple big dudes out there and there's this little chick, she's probably 115 pounds, hot as hell, and they did a martial arts sparring thing and she messed these dudes up. Man, she, she could, she could pick, pick her leg up, so it almost standing on one leg and her other leg straight up over her head. And I'm thinking, holy shit, that woman would wreck you. So but what you said about too protective, I did a training exercise up in Grayling.
Speaker 3:We were the op for one year and the lady that run us I had like six of my infantry guys that got on the thing and she, but she was in, she was in charge as far as the out, for she was our NCO, but she, let me run all the, all the Missions. But she said I want to go on the missions and I immediately I'm like, but I guess, when a E8 tells the E6 I'm going on the mission, guess what, she's going on the mission. I was like, all right, so we, we were hitting.
Speaker 3:Alma had a infantry unit, alpha company, from the 125, and they were up on this little hilltop and we were supposed to probe their lines. And I'm trying to think of her last name. I remember her first name, carrie, but I can't remember her last name, anyway. So we're, we're doing the thing right, coming through and Walked into an ambush, so the you know the blanks are firing and all this bullshit. My point man, because he was too busy looking over his shoulder to making sure she was okay, walked into a trip wire and one of them, ones at the, the chem light, trip Trip flares that they put on the trees, yeah. So next thing, I know he's humping the tree because he jumped on a light trying to block it so that we could get cover, and it was a shit show, and then it was more fucked up than a runover dog. So we obviously we get either dead or captured, right so.
Speaker 3:So then, like the exercises over, sergeant Major Pescas cause them and says okay, over, send my people home. Send my people home.
Speaker 3:So we get back in the thing, we do an AAR and Carrie and Sergeant Major Pescas there and we're setting around and he's like, alright, after action, you, what went right, what went wrong, what can we do better. I said, well, nothing went right. I said nothing went right, okay. I said what we did wrong is we took a female on a patrol. And then I looked at my point man. I said you know better. I said you know better, she, if she's on that patrol, she's got to take care of herself. And and I found out later that they were kind of banging.
Speaker 3:So so that was part of the problem and and and. Then he's like okay, what, what can we do better? I said don't put a female on my patrols. I Said because obviously my men are infantry guys, we're not used to working with a female and we're gonna take care of her at all cost.
Speaker 2:Right, and that just goes back to the distraction. This is right, well not just a distraction.
Speaker 3:Protected in us, that's we're protective. And the banging in its.
Speaker 2:That's a whole nother set, yeah, set of circumstances, but you know when it, when it comes down to it, yeah, one where we're protected almost to the point of overprotective, to. That's a distraction, because he's more worried about her than him. Yep, because he's not looking back there. For you know, for for the guy in front of you, behind you, yeah, cuz he knows I can do my job right.
Speaker 2:So this and and I'm not saying right, wrong or different, I mean I think they should, if they can do the job Absolutely physically, mentally, in their ability right, pulling the trigger at the right range or whatever, to qualify to be there 100%, should be there, absolutely right, and I think it's gonna take us getting used to that Right, which is gonna be the struggle.
Speaker 8:Mm-hmm, you know, it's mostly a mindset change.
Speaker 2:Right, I think that's gonna be the struggle of getting used to it, just like I'm interested to see how all the Marine Corps bootcamps going with With no in in, integrated with the women.
Speaker 7:I think a lot of them will be easier from the use to it more if they Make the physical requirements equal, because when you go out there on a you know, an actual mission in country, it doesn't matter if, hey, you've got a male who's, you know, 20 years old and can do miles and under 12 minutes, and you got a female at the same age but her requirements is, you know, 15 or 16, they're together.
Speaker 2:Right, yeah, and they do have a difference as far as their physical abilities for their, their physical fitness test in the Marine Corps, right, like they were doing in I don't know what it is nowadays, but they were doing like this arm hang thing and in date Times for the run through different stuff, which is fine. But if they're gonna go to the school of inventory, right, you got to put a hundred pound rock on and we're going 20 miles today. They got to be able to complete the entire thing without unassisted, no different than anybody else, because that's the real world. Right, I mean, I get to graduate and to get out the fleet, regardless, if you're a truck driver, you're gonna be in school of inventory.
Speaker 2:But when you get to that those schools, there is a physical requirement. That shouldn't be any damn different, because if you know we're out on a mission or doing whatever, you got to be able to hold your own because, no offense, I don't want to take 25 pounds a gear off you for me to carry 125. Yeah, right, so I mean, that's not fair to me. Well, here we go, I know, I know you're coming.
Speaker 4:No, listen, I knew a female, I had a couple of female. I served with a lot of females. I was, I was a finance guy, so there was a lot of females and and I'm gonna catch a lot of shit for this from these- guys later on.
Speaker 4:But I had a female platoon sergeant and I tell you what She'll run with any guy. I'll put her up against any guy, any guy, and she'll keep up with them physically, mentally, whatever. Her name was Charlotte Morris. She retired a sergeant major. She was a drill sergeant like she. She, this woman, kicked ass day in, day out and and there's two women that that I can think of that I Would take the war with me. That was she's one of them. And then there was another one that I actually did go to war with. Her name was Catherine Spreeman. She's from Wolverine, michigan, and, as a matter of fact, she texted me on Thanksgiving, told me happy Thanksgiving.
Speaker 4:But that Woman, there she now she. She never made a past e5, but she was. She was just that kind of woman, a person or soldier that was just like I'm taking care of soldiers, I don't need to do this, I don't need to do that. She retired at e5, 20 years in the military, but but she, she kicked ass as far as, as far as soldiering and Leading soldiers concerned, she should have been a sergeant major, but she just didn't do what she needed to do to get there. That's what I'm saying. I'm not.
Speaker 2:I'm not saying that they should write. I'm just saying there, there the standards.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, I should be the same, right, and then there should be no complaints. I'm not so sure Catherine Spreeman could have kept up with a man physically, but just her, her, her whole attitude, her demeanor, it was just but, but I believe we're talking about two different things, right.
Speaker 2:You can.
Speaker 3:You can have the person that can do the two miles right and do the push-ups, can do the setups, but that was Charlotte.
Speaker 4:Morris that the first one I was talking about she could do Anything physically that a man could have done, okay.
Speaker 3:But where it comes, a real world, putting a ruck on your back and walking 12 clicks, okay, I'm sorry. A male body and a female body is just built a little flippin different, right, okay? Oh yeah, men generally are stronger, right. There are some females that you don't mess with because they're like linebackers and they'll bust you up. There are women like that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, there's not very many right you take the average man and the average woman and put them into a Well, combat situation, combat situation against each other, yep, the man's probably gonna win most of the time. Yeah, okay, not saying that they can't pull the trigger, but and how many times, how many times did you run in combat? For two miles?
Speaker 3:Oh, never, okay, I had a sergeant major come up to me because I wasn't a runner, I hated PT, hated it. And he come up to me and he was looking at my thing and I squeak by the run and he's like hey, sir, you should try to try a little more. And I said do to do what, sir man? He goes Well, you're run. I said what am I gonna do when I see the enemy? Am I gonna run from him? He goes well, no, I said, am I gonna do a push-up test with him?
Speaker 1:He goes, he goes he goes no.
Speaker 3:I said okay, sit ups. He goes, no. I said well, then I I feel that's wasting time, that a soldier should be doing other things. He goes, okay. But let me ask you question he goes. What happens if you get an ambush and you have to Retrograde because we don't say retreat, we don't retreat, we retrograde, okay, and you have to run two clicks to an LZ? I was like okay, so that's, that's good, valid point. I said, but fuck, that's our major. He's like what do you mean? I'm a bad motherfucker. I'm gonna just stand and fight because otherwise I'm gonna get died Running. I'm gonna be dying tired. They're gonna shoot me in the back, shit. I'm like fuck that. If I'm going, I want to be facing them. And he kind of shook his head and he's like Sergeant. R.
Speaker 3:B. I'm like sorry, sir major, that's how I feel. I said I'll do it, but I I'm not. I just don't see the See, the thought process, right because, it's different. It's different. You know what?
Speaker 2:do we do a time rock Right right, like, like what?
Speaker 3:no, that's through a saw school.
Speaker 2:That's throw a hundred hundred twenty five pound combat load on. And then you have you got to do ten miles within three hours.
Speaker 3:Right and let's see you, that's that's the true, that right, yeah, yep and then that's what I'm saying that's what I'm saying, but yeah, I don't know it's.
Speaker 2:It's fun to sit around the table and be asked for a while catch up on stories.
Speaker 4:Believe, believe it or not. I was a fucking PT stud when I was in the military.
Speaker 3:Well, you were a drill sergeant at some point, so you had to be.
Speaker 4:I well, yeah, and it came to a point. I also was with our Our, our SOAC, which is special operations aviation.
Speaker 4:Oh yeah out of Fort Bragg and it was either you, either perform Like you, better be getting a damn it burning. Your, your, your, your badge. Because I remember we had a major that was in there and he was doing the bare minimum as far as PT was concerned, and they were like Well, major, we got a, we're gonna get rid of you. You've got a spot for you over here on the other side of the base With the regular, with the regular Joe's, and you, man, you did not want to get kicked, put out of that unit for any reason whatsoever. They put a sergeant major out of that. We had a sergeant major that they a female, that they just were like You're not really cutting the mustard, sergeant major, so we're gonna send you over here across post, over the over there with 82nd of 18th Airborne Corps.
Speaker 4:So with that unit, if you're not scoring like 290 and above, you better start looking for another job, because and they don't have organized PT they, at least when I was there, they didn't it was either either you you did it on your own and you weren't punching a clock. You could come in at 10 o'clock, 11 o'clock, hell, you. You could even probably not even come in one day be like I'm not gonna make it, but your job better get done. Nobody's gonna be doing your job for you. You know right. See, there is called the big boy rules. Either do your job and then you also perform PT wise, or Hit the road.
Speaker 3:It's a road. Yep, that was. That was probably my biggest downfall being in the guard. Okay, because, let's face it, in the guard, they do in two days, two weeks, what it takes the army to do in a month. Right, okay, we're responsible for our own PT, right? Right, some units, like you said, they don't have mandatory PT, but most units do most.
Speaker 1:Most units do.
Speaker 3:So if you're forced to get your ass out of bed and go out and do PT, I probably would have been a little better at it, because I'm forced to do it. When I was in basic training, I was forced to do it Right, so I did it and didn't have a problem with it when I came back from basic training. Now I'm forced to go drink a beer, chase women, that's what you do, right? So I didn't do PT right, yep, you know. And and it was just never. I mean, I don't know guys who just lift weights to me that's like boring, you know, right, I Still was able to do my job and rock and my what I want to call real soldiering, which I didn't think PT was. But I understand, you have to be physically fit, you have to be able to do your shit right. Yep, luckily I was able to rock, you know, I didn't have a problem with that, but I didn't do a lot of ruck and because most of my career was in a vehicle.
Speaker 3:So, and then when we went on patrols, we took the salt packs. Which what can you put in a salt pack? Hardly nothing. So basics, body weight and ammo, right, yeah. And Little food, little water. Yep, little food, little water. So I Don't know that. That was just one thing I always didn't like about the army. But on the same hand, my best runtime was 1104. I don't ask, I think the guys fucked it up. I really do. I really think the dude fucked it up, because a mile and a half to two miles I think the dude fucked it up because I was hung over like a motherfucker.
Speaker 4:You're probably just in a hurry to get it over with probably Six-foot two, six, three stretching those legs.
Speaker 2:He left the. He left the mic ultra at the finish line.
Speaker 3:Man we stood in formation before we did the PT test and the first sergeant's like Holy shit, you guys stink because you could smell the beer coming out of our. Yeah, I took off and and I went around and he was like 555 on the first lap and I'm thinking they ain't no fucking way, that's right.
Speaker 2:You probably started at four minutes late, yeah, and Yep, sure enough, I come around and it was like 1105 and I was like What'd you say?
Speaker 3:He goes 1105 and I'm like Sergeant really, and he's like 1105, okay, and then I failed the push-ups in the setup, so I Think I threw up doing the push-ups.
Speaker 2:Yeah, for us to get a hundred and I'm assuming still the same. It's three mile run, yeah, and in 18 flat or under six minute mile. Yep, six minute miles. So Fast I read it, it was just just over 18. I was like 18, 10, 18.
Speaker 2:I was like that and I was puking. It was beautiful Virginia morning, nice and cool. You know, in in the Marine Corps you got to run, you got to have one turn around, one turn around spot. Oh, really, so you could. You could run a mile out, turn around and run two back to the finish line. They don't have to start, finished on be the same, but you got to have one spot, you turn around that.
Speaker 4:So you guys do three miles with you, three miles yeah 18 flat around to get the hundred points right right and it's yeah scales by right.
Speaker 4:So yeah, yeah, I was running sub sub 12 minute miles, or sub 12 minute two miles at my in my heyday and man yeah, when I was at, when I was at fast, yeah, it was nothing every day to do five to seven miles. But when I was at yeah that's what I was gonna say. When I was at brag, I ran eight miles every day. That's on average, it would be six eight ten, six eight ten, and the only days I took off was Sundays, and that's just because I Didn't want to get kicked out of my unit.
Speaker 4:So yeah, sabbath day I Didn't want to get kicked out of the unit. I love that unit, you know, and I mean so much stuff I learned there. And Really and Charlie probably tell you that Special operators, operators, it's kind of where the rubber hits the road. You know, as far as our army is concerned I know Tim's rolling his eyes over there at me, but Until you're there and you see it, I I probably shouldn't even say I'm not gonna talk about that story, but I've seen some shit, I can tell you that and the things that those Delta Force guys do, amazing, just amazing.
Speaker 3:Yes, that's pretty cool All the special ops. I mean think of seals, yeah, oh, yeah. So I was just gonna say right.
Speaker 2:so when I was when I was a fast company, right, we deployed the man of Bahrain right then for deployed from there, right for different missions or whatever, but we happen to be there was the old Manai Plaza. Before they built their the BH on base over there at NSA. By rain, we had this Manai Plaza, which was no hotel right. That got taken over by us. That's where we live. But seals ended up showing up one day, right, but then you have any idea they're coming in, you know so you wouldn't we're, no, we're, we're down eating chow.
Speaker 2:Also, these guys rolling, we're all like how's that? You know? Cuz obviously you could tell it's just us in this hotel. And yeah, these guys come rolling in. I End up going down to the gym that night working out. A couple of them come in, introduce themselves man, most laid-back, cool, chill guys You'll ever meet. Zero fucks to give. They're just, they're doing that, doing their thing, and they're like, yeah, we got, we got a couple days off, you know. So we're just, we're just basically chilling. You know we're out in mop level four playing basketball On a basketball court in this hotel. You know like training, you know hardcore and I get used to the heat. It's 120 up mop level for gas mask, everything.
Speaker 2:I got, I got, yeah, I got pictures. My wife's like you guys were crazy. I'm like that's what we were doing. You know, we're just constantly putting yourself through stress and these guys are like what are you guys doing? You guys are idiots, you know. You know we're like, hey, man, we're, this is what we're told to do. Is that's what we're doing, you know, and we got Corbin out there with us, you know. So people pass out being all mopped up. Yeah, you know, you get the old silver bullet, you know, but yeah, they were, they were, they were cool, shit man. I mean, they they taught you. Like you're just normal person and you know that they were, they were, they were high speed, low drag is what we always said you know, those, those, those guys.
Speaker 2:You could just the demeanor.
Speaker 2:They were all the same all the same, didn't brag, didn't think they were better than the next guy, man, they were just there doing their shit. They were happy to talk to you and you know, if you said something you they didn't really want to answer, they wouldn't answer. You know they would play it kind of change the subject and stuff, you know, but man, we'd be a working out. They come in, hey man, how's it going high-fiving, and you know, fist bumping and doing doing the shit is we're in there working out. You know, like they're in there working out.
Speaker 4:Yeah but that's all they do they work out, bang chicks and kill people?
Speaker 3:Not necessarily in that order.
Speaker 2:Left yeah, that's what seal stands for. That's what they did, man. They hit the pool there, they were working out eating, and and then they were gone. I mean, one morning, you know we're back out getting ready to go PT, and they were gone. You know they, just as fast as they came they left. You know they had their couple days off and they were. They were Scooting man. So it's pretty cool, yep, yep.
Speaker 4:That would have been nice to have done something like that. So my career.
Speaker 2:So I did. We did a lot of training that fast up and up in Little Creek, that Damneck, which are the two bases just just north of us over there, that's. That's where those guys is their school training stuff that over there, so it's pretty cool they had a trade?
Speaker 8:Did you just admit that you wanted to be in the Navy?
Speaker 4:No, no, no dude special operator. Special operator. It would have been cool to do that.
Speaker 8:Oh Okay, the Navy could have sworn you just listen if I was gonna be in the Navy. Yeah, the only thing I would have done is been a seal.
Speaker 4:That's it. If I could have made it.
Speaker 8:All right, just one clarification. All right, all right so.
Speaker 2:I don't know if I doubt about this on the last podcast, but we would go up there and use their training facilities and stuff. So one of the things that fast can we did if we ever have an embassy that's overtaken, right we could, we'd go back in and take it. So like when I went to Africa I'm not really Kenyon when that embassy bombing went off right, we went there to secure the, secure the building and stuff, but like a Benghazi thing right, that's where you got your other family over there in Africa, right.
Speaker 2:That's right, okay, but we're not gonna talk about that. So they have a, they have a building is Dam near the size of a, of a Walmart, and they can literally change that building over to the layout of any embassy that the United States has around the world. And so these guys have to get in a situation like was it Lebanon, or whatever, right, when they was, it was it Lebanon that they took over the the embassy, with all the hostages in the 80s?
Speaker 4:Oh.
Speaker 2:Iran, I don't remember anyways. So they can literally go through, I mean right down to the painting on the wall where it would hang on that wall and the same color couch, the same carpet, the same doorways in the exact same spot. I mean they can literally, within you know, 48 hours, change over this building to any embassy so that these guys could go in there and train Right.
Speaker 2:There's CQB tactics, that that we we have our own, our own school for that. That was where our security force rules that, so we went down for that. But their shoot house is totally different than ours and way more high speed, but that that they can actually do dry runs through that that facility. So when they get on site there they know exactly where the door is at, they know exactly where the couch is at and I'm saying that whoever's in there doesn't move stuff around, but at least the general layout. I mean, if that hallway is 66 feet long and slayed out at 66 feet long and there's eight doors and they're in the exact same spots crazy the amount of shit that they got.
Speaker 2:And then back then they had these huge pickup trucks that they'd throw their duck boats in Right, which are their inflatables, with the big motors on the back, and you see them out there, right outside the base, flying around and they're jumping in and jumping out and you know, do all shit. And these big trucks would just back right down on the beach and they'd load them up and pull them out of the water. I mean, they were, they were cool man. We used their, they had helicopters to practice fast-roping Up on these huge platforms.
Speaker 2:So, we, yeah, we'd train on on all their stuff. You know, not nearly the high speed, low drag those guys were. You know, right, they're, they're beyond the scope, but you know, it's pretty cool being able to go to their facilities and train with it and use it. And then, of course, we'd see him. We never interact with them, we weren't, we weren't cool enough for that by any means. But I mean you could, you could see him, right, and it was, it was, it was pretty cool.
Speaker 2:So those, those teams that were back, they're, they're still training, I mean, just like we were. You know, if you're not on a mission, you're training for the next one, no matter what it is. So it was, yes, pretty cool. And I actually got to meet them out there One time and, yeah, they're all all cool guys. So it's pretty, pretty neat. And I never got around the Delta Force guys. And then Marine Corps came up with Marsock. So we had Force reconnaissance. That's going away everything with the Marsock, and then that's kind of going away, another renaming it the Raiders. So and those guys are on parallel with the Delta Force guys and and the seals right there on that level, maybe not at that top level, but they're Right in that that zone where we were a notch or two below right there capable of some shit?
Speaker 8:Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2:So I, you know, I mean, and everybody's got their own different mission right. So the seals, or by water, I'm sure Delta, delta Force is more urban. Yeah right, and force recon was obviously jungle Right. So each branch had their, their, special operators.
Speaker 4:Green berets were more jungle, and then they have their own separate missions over at Bragg they had the, the JSOC over there, jsoc headquarters, and I Never even and I was, I was with the special operations over there. You know, I was never with 82nd or 18th. I deployed with 82nd, my second deployment, but when I was at Bragg the whole time I was with the special operations and but I never was able to get over there with those JSOC guys and see what they were doing over there.
Speaker 2:I can imagine it was some real high-speed shit, but I'll tell you if, if I were to do it again. As much as I love being a Marine right right through If I could ever have done it again, knowing why I know now it was smart enough hold on because you're, you might catch some shit what you're about to say, but go ahead.
Speaker 4:You know. You know what I'm gonna say. No, but go ahead. That you would have been Navy and went no seal Air Force.
Speaker 2:He's already Navy Air Force peer rescue.
Speaker 8:You want to talk about bad.
Speaker 2:Absolutely bad motherfuckers right there, boy, those guys, those guys are insane.
Speaker 4:I've actually never had any dealings with those guys.
Speaker 8:I have an either, but they Are basically legend or are?
Speaker 4:are they Not quite to obviously, like you see?
Speaker 8:a legend standards, but right there, they're still up there, but are they are?
Speaker 4:they? Are they special operations for Air Force?
Speaker 8:I believe that they do classify them as a Spec ops, oh yeah, for sure so.
Speaker 2:So there's mostly like SAR like search and rescue, yeah, so these are the guys that are literally like if you're playing a shutdown over enemy lines, they'll. They'll come out halo, jumping right from 30,000 feet and then find the pilot, find the plane, do the medical right that's needed if needed, and then they're in charge of getting that pilot, or pilots or crew or whoever, back to an extraction point so like think about it as, like I Would say, mix a medevac with Navy Seals.
Speaker 2:Okay so I mean it's, it's like, yeah, you got a best way to explain it. You got to get up to speed on these guys. These guys are crazy. There's some.
Speaker 8:There's some awesome YouTube videos of some of their training that they go through right there. Attrition rate for that training is pretty, pretty damn high is on level with with the seal training right.
Speaker 2:So, I mean you might start with 50 and you get three. Right right like it means that that insanely high Wow, because it's not only right you got to be physically fit, but you also got to learn all the medical shit you got to. You got to learn those small squad tactics and you got to have yeah, that's, it's nuts.
Speaker 4:Well, it should be that way though, too.
Speaker 8:You know, I just looked it up Quick Google search puts their attrition rate at between 86 and 90% yeah, we can say it, man, it's nuts.
Speaker 7:Look at that from a that's an expensive person yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 2:No, that was my bad Said to get out Tim's way. No, but I mean it's. So you know, when you start talking about, you know, special operations, capable, what, what our military has is absolutely insane. You know, I mean there's all these different, all these different units that I have, all these specific, different Capabilities that are special to just them. You know what I mean.
Speaker 4:So well, you know, that's what I was saying and when the rubber meets a road. As far as these special operators are concerned and the missions that they do and Tim has given me that look, hey, I've done plenty of deployments where I was not it with special operators, okay, but it just seems like what we do, what we do as non operators, is just kind of Fluff fluff. You know what they do is what. When they do they have Specific goals in mind. It's like when we were, when we were in Iraq, what were our goals? What were our objectives? You know what I mean? They know what their objectives are. They go, they do it, they kill it, whatever it is, and then they come home and they and they wait on the next one.
Speaker 2:Yeah, then they have no idea what it's gonna be yeah, yeah, or where it's gonna be.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, when I was in, when I was in Poland I was with NATO for four years and in that city there was a Delta Force guy, army Delta Force guy. All the time he was there. I don't know what his mission was, but he was there waiting for something to happen and then, and he would be there three months, maybe six months, I'm not exactly sure and then he would go back home. We rotate out, somebody new would come.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's the same same thing like with our fast team. Right, we, there's three different spots that that we deploy to. I don't know where they're at now, but man of my brain was one road to Spain and then Yakuza, japan, right, so we're. We had teams planted everywhere sitting there waiting, yeah, so we were doing the same training there as we were doing back here, right, as far as making sure we're getting to the range and shoot houses and stuff like that. But until we were needed, we didn't really have an objective right. And then, when we did get one, it could have been anything from dropping the minute you're helping security with humanitarian aid.
Speaker 6:It could have been an embassy, it could have been yeah, an airfield it could have been.
Speaker 2:Who knows what you know so. Yeah, it's it's. It's weird when you go somewhere. I mean, like you know, when you guys are in Iraq, right, you know, you know going in what your mission was gonna be right. For the most part, he's either gonna be secure in a city take, taking a city.
Speaker 3:Our mission was to train the Iraqi police.
Speaker 2:Yeah right, but did you know that? For you left? What are you gonna be doing?
Speaker 3:Yeah, when we got hooked up with a 759th MP battalion, we kind of figured that we weren't gonna do infantry shit.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we were gonna do. Well, you didn't find out till you got there. Or do you start training for that back here?
Speaker 3:We start training for that back here.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so you knew, going over what, what you're gonna be doing.
Speaker 3:But I think Trace talking about the overall objective, the overall what?
Speaker 4:I mean, was it?
Speaker 3:to? Was it to throw Saddam out of power? Was that it? Because if that it happened, then we should have been home. Yeah, the minute they hung him right.
Speaker 4:Yep, yeah, exactly. But we were. Well, we were over there, nation building, nation building.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's exactly what it is. It's it's it's in still government that's friendly to us is what it is and here's the thing is.
Speaker 4:You know that's a completely different culture, completely different people. I don't know that democracy is right for them. You know what it means. We like democracy, we love it, but is it right for them? Not so sure, but time will tell, yeah, time will tell same with.
Speaker 3:Afghanistan. What was our, what was our mission there? I mean To get Osama's I'm a been lying. We got him in, but we still stayed.
Speaker 4:Yeah, we still stayed because we fucked up the country and felt like we needed to stay there and keep sure to try to keep it together. Well, you do. So what happened when we?
Speaker 2:left. You do because once you, once you eliminate a Government right a leader, and chaos starts right. Who's the next guy gonna step up one? Are they friendly to us or not friendly to us, right? So you got to make sure that before you leave. Oh hell hasn't broken loose, right?
Speaker 7:and Everything starts fracturing well that and that's training grounds for more people to come in and take over.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think a lot of times. You know you have to think about the big picture, which is obviously way above our pay grades and things, but when it, when it comes down to it, before you leave, you got to make sure that the pieces are picked up, right? I mean, you went in there with your goal, but and I think a lot of times, that's where things lapse, because something's not already put in place. It should have been put in place way ahead of time here's right.
Speaker 4:Here's a problem nowadays is, if you think about during World War two or the Korean War, it started to get bad in the Vietnam War and we had desert storm. It got even worse and that's being having the media there and and and the thing is, war is not pretty, it's not sorry, it's not, and You're getting a really good example of that right now in Palestine of what what an army Probably should do to bring a country to heal and and it's sad, and there there are children dying over there and there are women dying over there in Palestine, in the Gaza Strip. But what did you guys do about Hamas before they went in there and and are doing what they're doing? What did you guys do? There's six million of you, there's what 50,000 of them? You guys should have took them out a long time ago and now we're gonna deal with it and everybody's gonna pay the fucking price. So we were not allowed to go in and truly bring that country, those countries, to heal Afghanistan and Iraq.
Speaker 2:If we wanted to, we could have and Let me ask you this, though why is that our responsibility to do?
Speaker 4:You're talking about Afghanistan and I, well, afghanistan would have been our responsibility because they, they attacked us. I think we should have not been in Iraq. But if we're gonna go do something, let's fucking do it right. You know what I mean. If we, if we, if our president said, fuck it, we're going in there, then Listen, we either win the war or we don't. Are we gonna win it or we could, because we didn't win either one of those wars? Well, I I agree with what you're saying, with with the media, right?
Speaker 2:I mean, now you got all these reporters embedded. You look at World War two, right Like my grandfather's war, right, mine too, both my grandfather, any media that came out of. There was an embedded Guy from the Navy, or right from the brink, or or, if you, were in Europe, right, yep, it was they're not in the army and they're not gonna talk about those atrocities.
Speaker 4:Well, and they have. But but those happen everywhere, right?
Speaker 2:They still happen nowadays.
Speaker 4:Yeah, right you can't control, especially as we're all deal with.
Speaker 2:PTSD issues. Right, you got people still over there serving or even at those times that are going through those PTSD things, still actively there because they're not gonna send them back. You know, it's just not gonna happen, right? So that aggression, depression, all those different things combined with actively being in a war, right, yeah, it's always gonna be that way, but the way that these things get played out. I mean you could turn on any news channel right now. It's probably everything's still about Israel and Palestine.
Speaker 2:Yeah, 24 7365 and those pocket, that's are gonna stand there say the same thing they said 15 minutes ago. Yeah, you know, or they're gonna do a bunch of assumptions or whatever else, rather than waiting two days for the actual story to get Told correctly. Yeah, with all the facts, not just a bunch of facts. Yeah with all the facts, not just a bunch of opinions, you know it's all about who's first.
Speaker 8:It doesn't you know Details or truth be damned. It's who's first on the air, and that's all yeah, who's first tell the story Right?
Speaker 2:that's where misinformation comes right, and this is this is the problem when you have media actually being allowed to be in there, right? You're getting all this misinformation all the time.
Speaker 8:I can't. You know, media serves a Extremely important purpose, so don't get me wrong especially from the American perspective, where we have freedom of the press and whatnot.
Speaker 2:That's freedom of press in America, not overseas in the middle of the war.
Speaker 8:That's what I'm that's what I said, like what we have here, in. America right Freedom of the press, but regardless, though, there are times I feel that that they're actually more of a detriment than a help to anything well then, once again, we talked about op sec earlier, right?
Speaker 2:So now, all of a sudden, anybody can turn on CNN, fox News or OLN or whatever the other ones are in that as NBC, and they can see. They can see real world, what's actually happening. So all look at all these tanks are driving west out of here and all these people are moving out over there, and Nothing is a secret anymore, like it should be right. So Because those cameras are rolling 24-7. There's no limitation to what they can shoot or can't shoot, or where they can go or where they can't go.
Speaker 7:I think it desensitizes the people of what's actually going on too, so they're like, oh, just on the news. It's on TV but it's not really in their face.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't even, I don't even watch it. Yeah, because it's just the same Garbled mess that it's been for the last 25 years, 30 years when it comes to wars, yeah you know, I don't leave nothing that they say.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I mean, especially as it pertains to war, like these embedded reporters I don't know they, they're not really there so then?
Speaker 2:so then, why do we allow?
Speaker 4:They're gonna.
Speaker 4:if they're gonna be embedded with a military, I don't think we should yeah, I mean, it depends, do we want to win or do we not want to win? Because what happens is these reporters say oh, they killed so and so, and so somebody got you know there was a woman and child that got killed, okay, and then. And then the masses, the public, get upset and they Call their congressmen and complain, and their congressmen or they want to get elected again. So they don't want people upset with them because they sent us over there and then we got all these restraints on us. We can't do this, we can't do that.
Speaker 7:Tim knows what I'm talking about I'm gauge rules of engagement, yeah sir. I'm a woman. They went from a vehicle was coming to a checkpoint. If at one point you could shoot to kill and then yeah, we're there's the only time you can take the warning shots away from us, yeah.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and that's the thing. Like the rules engagement over there were nuts.
Speaker 3:You had to get shot at first and and if the dude was shooting it Joe and I'm standing next to Joe, I can't shoot back because he was shooting a Joe. He wasn't shooting to me.
Speaker 7:Right yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, whatever it was, yeah.
Speaker 4:Yeah, rules, engagement oh.
Speaker 8:You know, jumping back real quick to the to the media thing. You know, before we got into what we were just talking about, I'll just say this. That's before you know. We're not even talking about any potential bias or personal agenda that the journalist has.
Speaker 4:Right, yeah, yeah. And I mean they, those things do exist, the bias and the personal agendas. But Everybody has have those biases.
Speaker 8:Agreed. I'm just saying you know, you know if they do have a bias Then it always comes out, and how they write the story right, and I know there were some horrible things that happened, say, in the Vietnam War.
Speaker 4:There were people, there were US soldiers out there raping Vietnamese women and and things like that. That kind of stuff can't happen. And when that kind of stuff happens, but that's got to be pleased by the leadership. Exactly, yep, that's what I was gonna say. Exactly what I was gonna say is that the leaders need to need to. Take care of take care of it and and and clamp down on it and and hold those people to account well.
Speaker 2:So when I was on my Office computer earlier today, one of the headlines and yahoo right pops up and it said something about Israel. Soldiers conduct is not Good, like they're acting out or doing something. You know it wasn't. I'm trying to find it. I saw it earlier today. I should have taken a picture of it because I knew I was gonna lose it, but and it was just something dumb over like their, their conduct when they're not working right, they're Like they, like.
Speaker 4:They're just over there messing around like playing around.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was honestly nothing that had to do with anything in the conflict, it was just like some obscure Thing that was written to say like all these guys are a bunch of bad guys. And they were, yeah, like horsing around or doing something.
Speaker 4:I'm right, I'm gonna try to find it again. You know I I honestly do. I feel for the people of Gaza. I do, I do. What's happening to them shouldn't happen, but what happened in Israel shouldn't happen to begin with, okay, and they as a people should Take care of police their own, police, their own. They should have took a carer Hamas a long time ago if I.
Speaker 4:Don't know. It's like like they, they, they opened the, the, the gate to the Lions cage and the line came out started eating everybody. Well, why are you fucking surprised at that? You open the door. You know you open the door and let that line out. What do you think he was gonna do? That's what they're turning Gaza into a parking lot. They are, and it's sad. It is sad, but Okay, so here's a.
Speaker 3:Here's a talking about the media. I watched a movie back in the day and I think was like 1932. Leave it to, leave it to the techie to to find it before Charlie does.
Speaker 2:No, what, what, what this article says? I'm not gonna read it, but just the headline is video videos of us Israeli soldiers acting maliciously, emerging in international outcry against tactics in Gaza. So what? What would be considered malicious, right?
Speaker 3:trying to kill the other people. I mean seriously what. That's what they're there for.
Speaker 8:What about using a hospital as a, you know, command center, or or all the dead, or, all the dead hostages are finding down in the tunnels?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I mean regardless of whichever way you lie.
Speaker 2:I think the Palestinians should have taken care of Hamas, not let them Do their networking or whatever that they were doing. Right, because now they're. Now they're paying the price, because now Israel, who got attacked, has to come in and clean their house, right, you know. So I mean, I get it. I don't care which way you lie, doesn't matter to me. But looking at it from an outsider perspective, that I don't have skin in the game, right, I don't have a dog in the fight. Regardless, you know, be no different than us if we were to be a. Regardless, you know, be no different than us if we let some militia go up and invade Canada and kill a bunch of them and all of a sudden they start invading Michigan, going, you know, we're blowing everything up and killing people, like I mean, we should, we should have taken care of it If we knew it was a problem we should take care of it.
Speaker 4:It'd be more like it would be more like this it would be more like the Michigan National Guard, which is state run right, the reserves is national run Right reserves are federal.
Speaker 3:The guard is state but can be activated effectively Okay.
Speaker 4:so that would be like if Gretchen Whitmer right, our governor, she's the government sent the Michigan National Guard to Canada to invade. Right, we knew it was gonna happen because it was the government. Hamas is the government in Gaza. Yep, it is the government there, and they knew this was gonna happen. But I've also heard reports that Israel knew this was coming and that they've been propping up Hamas just because they've wanted to. They've been wanting to go in there and now they have an excuse to go in there. That's just something that I heard.
Speaker 8:I don't know if that's true or not but I mean, that's just basic intelligence gathering then. I think.
Speaker 4:Right.
Speaker 8:I mean America does that.
Speaker 2:Well, unfortunately you can't preemptively strike somebody. Well, exactly, hey these guys are putting soldiers on the border. We're gonna go in there and take them before they get us Israel could, Israel could definitely.
Speaker 8:Israel kicked ass the last time somebody fucked around.
Speaker 2:But how would that look?
Speaker 8:How does it look now? Yeah, it turned it into a parking lot.
Speaker 2:Well, but now you got an excuse to go in.
Speaker 4:They attacked us yeah we attacked them first.
Speaker 2:So I mean that's some of it right.
Speaker 8:And the main thing, I think, is they may have known about it. And were they prepping, were they getting ready? I mean, they could have, but Israel, much like America, is always at a state of readiness, not necessarily a full on war footing, probably much more so than us. But after the attack they sure as hell were on a war footing.
Speaker 3:Well, Israel has to be, Because every motherfucker in the world has been trying to kill him forever. If you think about this Germany, now Hamas I'll tell you what. If I was the whatever the of Israel, Prime Minister.
Speaker 3:Prime Minister and I knew the motherfuckers were gonna do something. I'd be like stand ready, boys, let them, and then, once they did, I'd unleash hell and I well, that's kind of what they did. Well, and who can blame them? They've been getting fucked forever, you know. And no, I'm not Israeli, by the way, I'm Irish and French Canadian. I don't like to mention the Canadian part or the French, but that's beside the point.
Speaker 3:That's just my take on it. Man, if you're gonna fuck around and poke the bear, don't get pissed off. When the bear gets pissed and says, I'm gonna stomp your guts out now.
Speaker 4:Yep, yep, and then eat them too, and eat them too.
Speaker 8:I mean, there's so many examples of this. When Pearl Harbor, 9-11, after both of those major events happened, america kicked ass. We took care of the issue and it was done Well. We didn't give ourselves the strength to understand.
Speaker 3:We took care of Pearl Harbor, because that was World War II. But 9-11, as we talked about earlier Sure, we went into Afghanistan and we went into Iraq, but did we take care of that? I don't think. So. I'm with Trey, I think.
Speaker 4:We didn't. Well, Iraq is doing all right.
Speaker 3:Well, Iraq is fine, you don't hear about him anymore.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, I mean they got invaded.
Speaker 2:Let's give you Ukraine, and you got Israel and we were after and we were after the people who were behind the attack the leadership which was mostly Saudi Arabian right, they were mostly Saudi.
Speaker 8:Well, we didn't go into Saudi Arabian.
Speaker 4:We didn't go in there, but most of the conspirators were Saudi, I believe.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it was a majority and then we got Osama and then after that it was Saudi.
Speaker 3:We were just kind of done.
Speaker 8:But did we. Well, yeah he might be down there in Cuba. No, no you don't think so.
Speaker 2:He's seven leagues under the sea. I bet you Fish food.
Speaker 4:I'm nibbling them up right now.
Speaker 2:And I listened to some of those other podcasts Conspiracies, the actual operators were talking about it and I don't think that ever is a lie. Yeah, yeah. When they said they went in there and got them yeah.
Speaker 3:Well, I do know that there was some talk about one guy said I shot him and the other guy said I shot him, and I think that's where the little conspiracy is Experious.
Speaker 4:Ok, guys, you both shot him. Yeah, you both shot him. We'll give him credit.
Speaker 2:Everybody wants to get credit for that I shot him yeah.
Speaker 7:They're drawing our prayer for Bob. No, it was me, Actually.
Speaker 2:I remember laying in the bed that night when we were watching TV and Obama came on, gave his report. They got him. That was pretty much what I remember.
Speaker 4:Remember they were partying in the streets in. Washington.
Speaker 7:DC. Yeah, I was in.
Speaker 4:That was actually a really proud patriotic moment. Right there it's all those people in the streets celebrating that. That was great.
Speaker 2:That's when America was all together.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 8:It's like, right after 9-11, america was all together For a while.
Speaker 2:Flags flying everywhere, super Bowl commercials, I mean the whole gig.
Speaker 8:What's the saying? We never won a 9-11 again, but on 9-12, America on 9-12.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's what we want.
Speaker 8:That's what we want. And then I was going to say something, but I completely lost my turn. Imagine that.
Speaker 7:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Have you guys watched the 13 Hours of the Benghazi movie? I have.
Speaker 4:I've watched it. It's a good movie Fuck it.
Speaker 8:It's fucked, but it's a good movie.
Speaker 2:Yeah, wasn't that about that comic of Muhammad? Was that what that?
Speaker 3:was Well, supposedly, supposedly Okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 4:I can't believe that they were trying to pass that off, for I don't know what they were thinking. Listen, you can't get anything over on the public nowadays. We got too much access to information.
Speaker 2:It's too easy for us to talk to each other. I mean, you couldn't talk to someone from California. Now I can do it on TikTok, Snapchat, Instagram, Facebook, Twitter.
Speaker 4:So these communities of people that live on the Internet, they're going to find the truth. They will find it in any situation, be it Benghazi or Justin Bieber getting engaged to Halley whatever name is Right, right, they're going to find it. They're going to find the truth out.
Speaker 2:I thought it was all about Travis Kelsen and Taylor Swift.
Speaker 4:Now it is.
Speaker 2:Now it is.
Speaker 8:I'll be honest Sometimes.
Speaker 4:It's all about Trey Porter in my life.
Speaker 8:Sometimes I just wish there was like an anonymous group or whatever WikiLeaks group or something that really did go and hack and try to find the truth. So nobody.
Speaker 4:I don't know, Well, they kind of do that. Wikileaks kind of did that, used to do that. I don't know when is that guy now.
Speaker 2:I think he's in Germany. I thought Germany or the UK.
Speaker 8:He was arrested.
Speaker 2:Oh really.
Speaker 8:They got him, oh yeah.
Speaker 4:He finally left that embassy. Ecuador, yeah, ecuador, ecuador, they got sick of him.
Speaker 2:They arrested him in the second detention that was at Julian Assange right.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, whatever happened, a dude was in there for like two. Was he still in Russia? He was in there for like two or three years, snowden.
Speaker 2:Snowden yeah, snowden's in Russia.
Speaker 4:I think, yeah, he's in Russia. Yeah, he's in Russia, but it was years ago. Somebody should get ahold of that guy.
Speaker 7:My sister-in-law has a foreign exchange student from Russia. Really, I'm not asking them about him. Yeah, they think about him in his perspective.
Speaker 4:Yeah, for sure, I was in Miami one time. No, not you Believe it or not, I was on the beach and there was this Russian chick. She was standing there completely topless. We start chatting her up about Russian and everything like that. She was like we fucking love Putin, we love Putin. I was like really I was shocked, but then people really love.
Speaker 2:Putin. You gotta remember, though, he's Russia's first president, right?
Speaker 7:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So he is all about his people. He's all about Russia's.
Speaker 4:But is he though? Sounds kind of funny, doesn't it? I would think so. I think he gives that perception, but that dude is probably they say he's the richest person in the world.
Speaker 3:Okay, they gotta love him. You know why? Because he was with the KGB, and if you don't love him, he's gonna find a way to kill you.
Speaker 8:Okay, he's gonna take care of that he's one of the OGs man.
Speaker 3:So that movie I was talking about?
Speaker 4:we were talking about, not that one 13 Hours right Benghazi.
Speaker 3:No, this is a Vietnam movie. We talked about reporters and how, back in the day, there was an MOS for that particular thing. What you need to do is you need to research. It's called 84, charlie Mopic All right, it's a Vietnam movie. It's about a photographer whatever that goes out on a mission with a squad of snipers not a sniper squad like a special forces group, okay. So this is where it gets picky or really cool. The movie does Shave Tail, lieutenant Justin Country, black Point man in the 60s. His second in charge is a hillbilly Southern white guy, okay. And then there's a couple other people, then there's like a Mexican guy that's on the team and then another white guy, and that movie covers so much shit. That is not funny. It covers things about the reporter asked the white guy what's it feel like to be led by a black guy? And the white guy goes off on him. If you look at the movie, you'll love it. The white guy looks at him and goes why are you going to ask me that fucking bullshit?
Speaker 4:Is this a documentary?
Speaker 3:No, this is a movie. It's called 84, charlie Mopic. And then he talks to the Lieutenant about this and they're trying to teach the Lieutenant. Lieutenant is like well, yeah, I know that. And they're like well, then, motherfucker, you figure it out on your own. You know, because the Lieutenant was like I'm the Lieutenant, so it's a great movie. It's a great movie, I watched it, and the ending is just the ending will kill you 84 Mopic 84 Charlie.
Speaker 4:Charlie Mopic. Okay, I'll look it up.
Speaker 3:It's pretty good movie.
Speaker 2:So it covers a lot of those controversial issues, absolutely.
Speaker 3:Absolutely, and it's an embedded journalist, but he is a soldier. You know not CNN Right and it's news network.
Speaker 2:I mean, like I know the Marine Corps still has them right, Photographers and stuff like that, but I don't think they actually go out in the field like that. You know they're not embedded with a patrol or with, necessarily, a combat unit. I mean they're out there in the fob and they're taking pictures and doing stuff.
Speaker 7:I don't think that's like one of the guys I was in Iraq with. When we got back he reclassed who's a supply guy? He reclassed doing that combat Camelment stuff and I'm going to our brigade afterwards.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's pretty cool. So well, you say, we wrap this one up. Yeah, I think so. I think so.
Speaker 4:We've been here two and a half.
Speaker 3:This, is awesome though it is.
Speaker 4:And actually he's been really great really great.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's fun. We can just sit down and shoot the breeze and talk about all kinds of crazy stuff.
Speaker 4:So I got 20 years of shit material to unload, so perfect.
Speaker 8:Perfect, we'll get you another next one, Since I dropped in a little late at the beginning. Did you guys talk about what we've been doing over the summer and yeah, a little bit Right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we covered.
Speaker 8:Yeah, we've been kind of busy, you know, and, that being said, I think maybe we should, you know, really focus on this during the winter, you know, when the writers group can't be out all that much and when the post is a little bit more busy at home versus, you know, during the summer and when we're out doing stuff.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Yeah, but we can always make time to do it. I think we should do a couple of months. Yeah, I think so, I mean, and that way we can rotate different people through, get different perspectives, get Kelly the new post member. Oh yeah, Maybe, have her come in and talk about her.
Speaker 4:Kelly. And what is Crystal? Crystal, crystal Crystal. Yeah, I would like to get a couple of females up here and get their perspective on some of the stuff.
Speaker 2:And any of those people out there listening. If you comment subjects, ideas, things like that that you want us to talk about here, about stuff, you know we're all about it for sure, so throw it out there. Yeah, All right, We'll. We'll kick it out and move on with our night. So appreciate everybody. You guys have a good night.
Speaker 1:Advocates will dive deep into the issues that matter most to this community, from mental health and employment to the history of the US military, the future of military service and everything in between. Whether you're a veteran yourself, a spouse or family member of a veteran, or simply interested in learning more about this community, this podcast is for you. So come with us on a journey into the heart of the veteran experience and discover the stories, struggles and triumphs that have shaped our nation's brave after they've returned home.