Soup Sandwich
Welcome to Soup Sandwich, a podcast that explores the complex and compelling world of veterans in the United States. Through interviews with veterans themselves, military experts, and advocates, we'll dive deep into the issues that matter most to this community, from mental health and employment, to the history of veterans in the US and the future of military service. This podcast is supported by the generous contribution of the members of VFW Post 3033.
Soup Sandwich
Humor as Armor: Unpacking War, Wit, and Warrior Well-Being with VFW Post 3033
Ever found yourself chuckling through a rough patch? That's how we veterans roll here at Soup Sandwich, where humor is our armor and stories are our currency. Your first mate, Brent Holbrook, is at the helm, steering this ship of tales with my brothers-in-arms from VFW Post 3033. We're not holding back; we're getting real about the paradox of war, the ridiculous situations we've somehow danced through, and the raw edges of transitioning back to civilian streets. Mental health professional Tabatha joins us, lending her expertise to our unabashed exchanges, because let’s face it, the front lines are just the beginning of the battle.
War stories? We've got plenty, and not the kind you'd expect. From delivering a suitcase of cash to North Korea to bar brawls in Virginia Beach, we've lived to tell the tales that'd make your grandma blush—or just join us for a round of beers. But it's not all laughs and past glories; we dig into the darker chapters too. Those troubling crimes within ranks and the mazes of military justice, they've got us questioning and debating the very fabric of accountability and honor among soldiers. And with the stakes this high, you can bet we're not skirting around any of the gritty details.
When the uniforms come off and the medals lose their sheen, that's when the real mission begins. We're shining a light on that silent slog of readjustment, the kind that can weigh on a vet's shoulders like a rucksack full of lead. The stories shared might be laced with humor, but don't be fooled. That humor is a coping mechanism, and these stories carry the weight of truth about the complexities of mental health after service, the struggle against the tide of veteran suicide, and the life lines we throw each other—because sometimes, the bravest thing you can do is answer the phone. Tune in, and you might just find that amidst the banter and bravado, there's a refuge for those who've marched through the storm, and a reminder to check on your strong friends, too.
Email Us with your comments and suggestions at vfwpost3033@gmail.com, we'd love to hear from you!
War is a paradox. It has the power to bring nations together, to inspire heroism and sacrifice and to forge bonds of camaraderie that will span a lifetime, but it also has the power to tear families apart, to shatter communities and to leave scars that will never fully heal. And, for those who have served, the transition back to civilian life can be one of the greatest challenges they will ever face. This is the typical life of military veterans, a world that is both familiar and foreign to most of us. It is a world that is shaped by unique experiences, values and traditions of the military, and by the sacrifices and struggles of those who have served, but it's also a world that is constantly changing, as new generations of veterans confront new challenges and new opportunities. Thank you for joining us at Soup Sandwich. Dig your foxhole, heat up your MRE and spend some time with us.
Brent Holbrook:Hey everybody, welcome back. This is Brent Holbrook. I'll be the host for today's episode. Around the table, we've got a few people here. If you want to go around and say hello.
Tim Artibee:Okay, I'm Tim Artibee; Post Commander of Borley Hanel Post 3033, in Mount Pleasant, Michigan. and very important about Borely and Handle they're both guardsmen that went off to war during World War I and didn't make it home. Very proud to be the commander of that post.
Charlie Cline:Next we have I'm Charlie Klein post member of 3033, and Rider's Group President. vice president Tray Porter, post 3033 member and riders group vice president as well.
Joe Gates:Joseph Gates post 33 member. Riders group member, ad agent, webmaster and a raw tech geek.
Charlie Cline:I've got a list. I'd also like to add that I am the most handsome member at post 3033.
Tim Artibee:You do have the sexiest voice. I wouldn't say that.
Charlie Cline:You have the face for radio.
Tim Artibee:You have the face for radio. You have the voice, he has the voice and the face for radio. Okay so here we are again today. Ladies and gentlemen and sports fans and all us great military people. A little disclaimer here these are veterans that have colorful language. We say things that's probably not political or correct. We swear, we cuss, we make jokes about each other. We do a lot of stuff that most normal people would think that that's not very nice. Very off color, very off color.
Brent Holbrook:NSFW not safe for work.
Tim Artibee:And so what I would like to say, not without headphones.
Brent Holbrook:What.
Tim Artibee:I would like to say is this by no means our opinions, are no mean the opinions of the VFW poorly handled post 3033, the Department of Michigan or the National VFW. These are our opinions, that we do and we argue about and we talk about and we laugh about and we mess with each other about.
Charlie Cline:And this disclaimer goes back to our previous podcast as well.
Tim Artibee:Because I didn't even say fuck yet. So here we go. So, please back, please enjoy, but don't sue us. So let's do it, let's get going, let's go.
Brent Holbrook:With that being said, can I throw in a couple of things? Like you know, this podcast is called Soup Sandwich for a reason. Okay, so for those of you out there who don't know the terminology of soup sandwich, ask any military member or veteran what that means, and typically they'll come up with something along the lines of it's a mess, Because if you visualize a soup sandwich, a piece of bread, and you pour soup on it and another piece of bread, it is a giant mess. There's no order. There's no any kind of. You know, that's not a shit sandwich.
Charlie Cline:Shit sandwich that's actually what it means.
Tim Artibee:And we couldn't say more fucked up than a run over dog. So we went with the politically correct. What's your other saying? More fucked up than six guys blowing seven because someone's got two dicks in their mouth.
Charlie Cline:There it is. That's what the disclaimer is for.
Charlie Cline:That's good, they were here. They were here. They were here early.
Brent Holbrook:But that's I mean, you know when I actually a little bit of information, like I you know, charlie, here is the writers group president, but also the founder of our writers group chapter.
Charlie Cline:One of the one, of the one of the one of the that was actually a founder, oh is he as well.
Brent Holbrook:Okay, I stand corrected.
Charlie Cline:Four of us, seven of us.
Brent Holbrook:Okay, I stand corrected, but you know I would. I would say that I'm the founder of the podcast.
Charlie Cline:This is something, it was your brainchild, it was your it was your uh, and I was on board because I listened to podcasts when I sat in the office.
Brent Holbrook:I love podcasts.
Charlie Cline:I'll listen to documentaries on Netflix. I listen to podcasts when I'm been work or managing work or doing whatever I just that's just something other than the same radio song channel. It comes on all the time.
Tim Artibee:Me. I don't listen to fucking nobody.
Brent Holbrook:That is not a truer statement.
Introduction:I just want to say that that um.
Charlie Cline:Tim gave his disclaimer right.
Charlie Cline:No, but here we go, no, no no.
Brent Holbrook:Stand by.
Charlie Cline:Here's the thing, what we say to each other. You know, we all know, that it's uh love it's love.
Introduction:Yeah, it's a brotherhood.
Charlie Cline:It's a brotherhood. I remember one time we were at the VFW and there was a guy who was not a member of the post not a member of the post and, um, he was espousing a lot of political stuff, right, and we all have our own political views and everything like that. And like um, I have an opposing political view than Tim, right, but we love each other. It doesn't matter, absolutely Right. But Tim told that guy hey, we don't fucking talk about politics here. So you got to. You got to. You got to choice shut your fucking mouth or get out. And I was like damn, but I mean, between us we talk about it all, we can talk about it all the time, but don't let a stranger or a non-member come in here and start talking, espousing all these political views. You got to go.
Charlie Cline:And it's something earned. Yeah, something earned.
Charlie Cline:You know what? Absolutely right.
Charlie Cline:I don't think it's, it's just the brotherhood part of it, yeah, our sisterhood part of it, because we can agree to disagree, right but.
Tim Artibee:And we can argue and we can say fuck you, fuck you, fuck you. But in the end of the day someone else tells you to fuck you, we're killing mother fuckers.
Charlie Cline:And that's the thing. Like like, we might have opposing political views, right, we might disagree about things, but don't fucking offend my, my, my brother. Yeah, Don't offend my brother, because you offend my brother, you offend me.
Brent Holbrook:You got to earn it. Like, like Joe said, you got to earn it, you come in, you do your time, you earned it. Then you can shit talk all you want.
Charlie Cline:But the second, an outsider, comes in we're all going to band together and we're going to fuck you, we're going to read the Goon Squad. The Goon Squad oh my God, you're the only one who looks good.
Tim Artibee:But, but here's the thing with this, and you're right and it doesn't matter. You know, it doesn't matter what, what, what you did when you served, like, I give Trey a lot of shit about being a clerk, right, but you know what Trey wrote on the dotted line that he signed the blank check. If they would have said hey, guess what, Trey, even though your MOS is a Levin typewriter, Whatever it is.
Charlie Cline:That's the best thing I ever say, hey so hey, 11 typewriter.
Tim Artibee:Today your MOS is a Levin bullet stopper. So grab your weapon, drop your typewriter like saving Private Ryman. Saving Private.
Introduction:Ryman.
Tim Artibee:When he went in there. You're not going to need this, you're not going to need. Grab your fucking weapon and let's go fucking kill people.
Charlie Cline:Well, and that's that. That was that movie. What was that movie with Mel Gibson and they?
Charlie Cline:were soldiers.
Introduction:No yeah, we were soldiers. Soldiers, by the way.
Charlie Cline:Boy man, that gets me every time.
Charlie Cline:And there was a Joe.
Charlie Cline:I want to say Joe Gates, but Galloway.
Tim Artibee:Galloway. He was a civilian reporter that was on the ground In the Sergeant Major threw him a fucking M16.
Charlie Cline:He said Joe said I'm a non-combatant. He said, not today. Pick that fucking weapon up you better start shooting.
Tim Artibee:You might be a non-combatant tomorrow because you dead. So it's hilarious.
Brent Holbrook:Do civilian reporters still go out like the way Galloway did? Because I know they're still out there.
Charlie Cline:They haven't been in reporters. I just don't know.
Tim Artibee:I didn't see them.
Charlie Cline:I don't think they go much more than out of the safe like the green zone you know what I mean. They'll be in the green zone, but I don't think they go out on patrol, can you fucking?
Brent Holbrook:imagine.
Charlie Cline:I mean, you saw what happened to Tony Stark, right.
Tim Artibee:Yeah, he turned into Iron man Right.
Charlie Cline:They do send them out. They reporters will go out on patrol and shit, they do, they do it.
Brent Holbrook:Yeah, I mean, we won't say it it doesn't happen much.
Charlie Cline:We never had any.
Charlie Cline:But no, it happens.
Tim Artibee:Your guys' shit was kind of a little more secretive. I'm not saying secretive, but it was secretive.
Brent Holbrook:Yeah, they were doing it, you're not saying secretive. But you're saying secretive.
Charlie Cline:Well, we went out with basically 25 less and a Cormorant and two in the fire.
Tim Artibee:Yeah, it wasn't like they were driving down downtown, fucking East Baghdad, in a fucking 13 of Humvee Convoy and shit. You know they were all on their feet and you're going to get a civilian reporter to fucking start walking around fucking.
Charlie Cline:Yeah.
Tim Artibee:I'd be like an RTO trying to do it.
Charlie Cline:It was more or less.
Joe Gates:I just got that.
Tim Artibee:You just got that.
Charlie Cline:No you're slow. I can tell you we were in. When I was in Bosnia I went out with the tankers. Tankers were like hey. Trey. Well, there was this guy. He was an E7. I was a fucking PFC at the time.
Charlie Cline:I didn't know. Tanks had typewriters.
Charlie Cline:They had it that fucking day. This guy's name is Manny Manuel. I called him Manny Manuel, Sergeant First Class. I can't remember his last name.
Tim Artibee:Manny Manuel.
Charlie Cline:Yeah, he was a Puerto Rican guy.
Tim Artibee:Evidently yeah, sounds like Sergeant Shortpants.
Charlie Cline:Well, my NCO was a Puerto Rican dude, so they got along.
Charlie Cline:And he was like hey, you guys, let's go out Friday night.
Charlie Cline:We're going to go out on patrol in the town and I was like all right let's go. Don't ask me what the fuck, because don't ask me what the fuck my Sergeant First Class was thinking letting us go out on patrol, like that. But we went out and he was like all right, we're going to this building, right here. We go there and it's a fucking club. Listen, we were all up there with weapons and everything else, e7 and.
Tim Artibee:E8. They dropped like a nightclub. A nightclub so did you get a lap dance and a blow job, or what?
Charlie Cline:I'm not going to talk to the particular hey sweetie, you want to see my gun?
Tim Artibee:I'm not fully loaded. I'm better than getting a fucking blow job with an M4 next year, remembering to use proper terminology this is my rifle, this is my gun and an anti-bred-on thigh holster.
Charlie Cline:We went up to the bouncer and the bouncer was like it's 10-year-old, whatever to get in. And the fuck that E7, manny Manuel. He was like motherfucker, we ain't paying shit, get the fuck out the way we're going in here. There was about 25 fucking soldiers no bullshit.
Charlie Cline:We went into this fucking club in Bosnia and he assigned one PFC. He was like you watch the weapons, we're going to go have a good time. We drank in our fucking uniforms, we piled all our weapons in one corner, drank, danced with the girls over there. They were like man, it was nuts.
Brent Holbrook:I don't know if I want to see this visual, but I want to see a soldier complete. Like you know, combat gear just fucking going down on the dance floor.
Charlie Cline:Well, we took all of it, we calibrated all that. All we had on was our tops.
Brent Holbrook:Oh, okay, I'm thinking like all your body armor and you're sitting there fucking sporking Back then there was no body armor.
Tim Artibee:Back then there was no body armor, but I thought men were men.
Charlie Cline:I'm also thinking of myself, I wouldn't know if I'd want to leave all that shit with a PFC.
Charlie Cline:I hear you, I hear you, but I mean, we came back, it was all there.
Charlie Cline:Yeah, because if you and I'm coming back and something was missing, someone's going to fuck.
Tim Artibee:I had told the PFC okay, you're going to sit here. You're going to put all this in the corner. You're going to stand here locked and loaded. If somebody starts walking up here, you're going to put two in the chest and one in the head. You're going to look for something to look for Fill your drill.
Charlie Cline:We called it Fill your drill. Two in the chest, one in the head, that was a.
Charlie Cline:I went back to Bosnia Years later. Years later I was when I was stationed in Poland I flew to Croatia, rented a car, we went to Croatia, montenegro and then went to Bosnia. It was surreal going back there.
Charlie Cline:How old were?
Charlie Cline:you when I went back? Yeah, when you were there 40, 38, 40.
Charlie Cline:How old were you the first time?
Brent Holbrook:Holy fuck, how old are you?
Charlie Cline:now.
Charlie Cline:I'm 47. Oh shit, he's the second-oldest guy at this table. And I was. Maybe he does when.
Introduction:I first went I was?
Charlie Cline:I think I was 21, 21, 22.
Tim Artibee:Second sexiest, because I got that nailed down.
Brent Holbrook:You did.
Charlie Cline:No, this is what's crazy, right? He's there with all these weapons. He's not big sexy anymore, 21 years old or 22 years old Do all this crazy stuff. The amount of responsibility, like as a 20 year old I could go sign out a $4 million tank.
Tim Artibee:Bro, I'm trying to fucking around.
Charlie Cline:But as a 40-year-old man I can't get a $5,000 credit limit from the bank to start a business. I'm gonna give you a $4 million tank and a bunch of missiles. He's so ridiculous right.
Brent Holbrook:How about this one? Yeah, like you said, same concept. You can go fucking sign out a missile launcher, but God forbid, in the barracks you can't have a hot plate to make yourself big. That always pissed me the fuck off.
Tim Artibee:I'm thinking from this way and I'm gonna throw Joe here.
Charlie Cline:I'm gonna throw Tucky.
Tim Artibee:How old was you when you were in Iraq, 19., 19. And he had fucking.
Charlie Cline:You ain't 19 right now.
Tim Artibee:He was a state of the art fucking top secret, secret, secret, secret, secret, security clearance, motherfucking, radio bullshit. And he couldn't fucking drink a beer.
Brent Holbrook:He couldn't fucking drink a beer legally, right yeah, he burned his legally.
Joe Gates:Like I said, my first legal beer was Interact for the Super Bowl, and they gave us two Crazy.
Charlie Cline:Well, I remember, when I was, I had those chits at open hour. I was probably 22, 23.
Joe Gates:I was in Korea I was pitched to. The British told us who won before it was over with.
Charlie Cline:I was an E5. No, I was an E6 at the time and they came to me and like, hey, we got a mission for you. Sergeant Porter, you gotta suit up and go up to.
Charlie Cline:North Korea.
Charlie Cline:Like the fuck what they were like.
Tim Artibee:They needed their typewriter fixed.
Brent Holbrook:Okay, we have to explain the typewriter joke, because people tuning into this episode probably don't know who the Trey's MOS was hey, listen to the last ones.
Tim Artibee:And I called him clerk the whole time.
Charlie Cline:I was a finance guy I was a finance guy, sorry, administrative in the office. So what they wanted me to do was go up there and give a million dollars to the North Koreans. Yeah, yep and I. So what I did I was, we were sitting at a table just like this, and I got pictures of it. I got pictures of it.
Tim Artibee:Fuck that. Why were you giving North Korea a million dollars?
Charlie Cline:Okay, I'll tell you why. What they said it was for. They said it was for us to go up there and dig up remains from the Korean War. Okay, and what it really was for was so we could go dig up those remains but also spy on those motherfuckers at the same time.
Tim Artibee:Okay, okay, I'll track that.
Charlie Cline:So I'm sitting at a table just like this, had a million dollars piled up, sliding over to some North Koreans.
Tim Artibee:You didn't take me.
Charlie Cline:Listen, there's no way. I mean, I've thought of every way. I thought of every way to do it. I had a commander when I was in Iraq.
Brent Holbrook:You didn't think about the back alley, did you? No, I thought about it, everything I thought about everything.
Charlie Cline:I had a commander when I was in.
Charlie Cline:Korea when I was in Iraq the second time. His name was Keith Stewart and he ended up, after we came back from Iraq, going to Korea as well, and I heard a story about him. He stole like a million dollars, Stole a million dollars. It was sitting in some account that he had. He ended up jumping off of a 14-story building killing himself rather than going to Leavenworth.
Tim Artibee:Yeah, making big rocks out of big rocks. Fuck Leavenworth baby.
Charlie Cline:So I actually got a guy I served with. I think he's still alive in Leavenworth, so I was served with a Met Fast company. We were co-op-less together. He went to the fleet, did whatever he had to be an. Eod guy. He became a master sergeant. For seven years he was stationed in Japan.
Charlie Cline:He became a master sergeant.
Charlie Cline:Yeah, he was a master sergeant.
Charlie Cline:So, he was a lifer.
Charlie Cline:Buryed kids, the whole thing. Right, they're all living in Japan. He comes back to Hawaii and he was either at the school or training at the school, or he was there on temporary duty or something. And to get a hooker down at Waikiki because we actually did a deployment to, we actually did a hooker down at Waikiki. No, we actually in Fast Company we did a refuel-defuel nuclear submarine yeah, you were telling me about that. Yeah, pearl Harbor, but anyway. So he goes back there, gets a hooker down at Waikiki, kills her in the hotel room, throws her in a suitcase and dumps her on the side of the highway Fuck.
Tim Artibee:Did he fuck her to death, or what?
Charlie Cline:Well his thing is like he tried to wrap her with a lipstick knife or some shit.
Introduction:And he ends up killing her. Then he freaks out because he's married.
Charlie Cline:blah blah, blah dumps the body. His name is Nathaniel Crosby, If you look it up.
Tim Artibee:Oh, and the phone's come up right now.
Charlie Cline:Absolutely, absolutely. I have a picture of the dude when we did OCQuald at our barracks because when we stand guard you got to get qualified, like we had to get shot with the beanbags, other shotguns, the wood batons Remember bullets. You have to get shot by all that stuff or you have to get OCQuald.
Tim Artibee:Oh my God, you don't even go with fucking OCQuald. No, oh my.
Charlie Cline:God, so Nathaniel.
Tim Artibee:Crosby feels Wait, what His?
Charlie Cline:name was oh, it's Oceum Capsicum. Oh, I did that.
Tim Artibee:So it's like a pen, that's sprayed, but it's like 95 times first I fucking did that.
Charlie Cline:So I actually have a video it's on VHS. It's on VHS of me going through. You get sprayed with it, then you got to fight and you got to do all that shit.
Tim Artibee:Yeah, I got to do all that stupid shit.
Charlie Cline:So yeah, this is probably 10 years ago. He kills this hooker. I've looked him up, I've tried to find him in the system, like the federal prison system, because that's what the military uses. I can't fucking find him. I don't know if he's dead, when the fuck is he at?
Charlie Cline:I actually talked to quite a few of the guys on the fast company I served with that know him and we're always like in a text kind of group, you know, trying to figure out where he's at or if he's even alive, because you punch his name into the system the federal prison system he doesn't fucking exist. And I actually sent an email probably two years ago, maybe three years ago, asking hey, this is the guy's name, you know I could get his age, because it says that he was like you know, 32 or whatever at the time, or whatever, 28 at the time you know.
Charlie Cline:So I fast forwarded to the time frame. It would be now he'd be like 35 or whatever. And never, ever got an email back. He's alive, he's dead, he's in this place?
Charlie Cline:How did he end up killing this girl so?
Charlie Cline:apparently he says. He says that she tried to rob him Like they hooked up because she was a prostitute. She came from like Oregon or some shit. Her boyfriend took her over there to hook her.
Tim Artibee:Right, right In.
Charlie Cline:Hawaii, in Hawaii, right. So he ends up taking her up to the hotel room. He says and you could read the articles which they're they got two phones Googling it. She tried to rob him and he ended up killing her somehow, stuffs her in a suitcase, takes her down the elevator there's all this video evidence. He dumps her on the side of a highway in Hawaii, flies back to Japan and they end up getting her Right because they go through the video and figure it all out, right.
Charlie Cline:Yeah, that's it Right. So I actually.
Charlie Cline:I got pictures and, if I remember, when I get home tonight.
Charlie Cline:I'll take a picture and send you a hymn at our barracks at Fast Company, right yeah, so it's, it's, it's bizarro.
Charlie Cline:You know you start talking about this stuff, but yeah, I literally had a guy that's. You know he was a master's artist, you know, so he's an E8. I mean, he was like right getting close, but you get caught up in that craziness. You know, it was just weird.
Brent Holbrook:I think I have a story similar to that, because I can't remember. I can't remember his name, but I believe he's in Leavenworth now. He might have gotten out last, I knew. But so long, long story, quick story. You still try to make it because this kind of ties into what you were saying earlier. You know, talking, talking politics, talking different, different topics, right, that somebody would consider like not politically correct or whatever, right? Okay, so that's how this story starts. He has a new assignment and he comes to my department and he's just, he's got something about him, he's got this vibe right. And he was from inner city in inner city, and my direct supervisor was from the same inner city, right? So one of the things that struck me was he just had this thing about some of the girls, right. I always summed with girls, you know. It was just a weird thing, you know. Anyway, long story short, you know did he actually just like girls?
Charlie Cline:Is that no Okay? Yes, not a normal.
Tim Artibee:Navy guy. That's why you stood out. Right. So, you were saying along to story short when I left, so is it still a long story short.
Brent Holbrook:I'm speeding it up. I'm speeding it up, so I want to make sure.
Brent Holbrook:Yeah, so just some weird shit was going on and I reported it to my supervisor. She dressed me down, man, she was fucking bitching me out in her office, basically calling me. You know every word under the sun you know, saying I'm fucking racist, and all this other shit. So, anyway, fast forward about I don't know four months or so, and on this particular day I was working, but he was not there when fucking three NCIS investigators come in and show their cred, asking for him.
Charlie Cline:Hear the sound of freedom over there. Tim is trying to not get him on camera.
Brent Holbrook:Yeah, it's too late, Everybody can hear it, so yeah. So next thing we know he's taken and we just don't hear about him for the longest time for months.
Charlie Cline:So the Marine Corps did the same thing.
Brent Holbrook:Come to find out, he ended up being charged and convicted for raping eight different girls in the barracks Damn One of them, one of them being our, one of our co-workers in the same department, and yeah, so that investigation led to another and led to another and all after all this time, like all these, like girls, came forward and it was. It was fucking insane. So last I knew, last I knew, the he was in. Maybe he was in there for seven years. I don't know, I can't remember, but yeah, it's, it's insane, seven years.
Charlie Cline:That's it. That's it. Yeah, for raping eight women. Yeah Well, we're gonna have mercy Sold. The Marine Corps.
Charlie Cline:We didn't join in, we didn't post, us all the time.
Brent Holbrook:I'm fucking straight. What the fuck bro.
Charlie Cline:They, they were only joking Rape is not a joke. Right Rape is not a joke, except when I'm raping 10. Then it's a really funny, then it's a joke.
Charlie Cline:That is funny. It's not a joke. It's Tim Langston.
Tim Artibee:Bingo. So it's not right. He goes. Oh, please don't stop.
Charlie Cline:No that's no 100%.
Brent Holbrook:make fun of me for being in the Navy. It is, it is.
Charlie Cline:It is. It's absolutely inappropriate on call for that motherfucker should have been castrated.
Charlie Cline:Yeah, absolutely. I can't believe he only got seven.
Charlie Cline:We're not I know, and I know we sit here and make jokes about it. But boom, boom, funny shot. It's not funny because a lot of us, you know, we have the back sense of humor, but then the Marine Corps.
Charlie Cline:They, we did the same thing We'd actually have a company formation. They got the fleet would have come even at fast, and we have company formation, so everybody's got to be there, right. And then you have PMO, which is our police officers. Military police would come out and they would tell the commander, which would be a major or lieutenant colonel of our company, and say hey, these are the names I need Because we do random drug tests. So here's Tim standing next to me, gets his name called, he walks out there, reports in like he's supposed to do. They straight up, throw cuffs on him and walk his ass away Damn.
Charlie Cline:And I never see him again More than likely, more than likely popped on a drug test because we were getting drug tested once a week.
Brent Holbrook:Do you remember a few years ago they made this big fucking to do about, you know, civil rights and this, that and another thing, but it was? It was a Marine Corps, what to? I don't know the terminology, I'm sorry, but it was. It was, you know, formation, and I think it was like a dozen of them were convicted of human trafficking across the Mexican border, for sure.
Charlie Cline:Yeah, remember that I actually read that article.
Brent Holbrook:Yeah, so they went on a big fucking rant about how they violated their you know civil rights, for embarrassing them like that and this that so what you? Were saying that was a normal thing to happen.
Charlie Cline:That happened.
Brent Holbrook:So we would have a company formation every week.
Charlie Cline:So, like Friday at noon or two or whatever, right, you'd have a big company formation and you'd get the spiel. You know, if you hit it, wrap it. Don't drink, don't drive.
Brent Holbrook:Safety brief, safety brief Don't add to the population, don't subtract from the population.
Charlie Cline:Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, we all got the same thing.
Tim Artibee:My safety brief was don't do dumb shit. That's what. I told them. That's what I told my truth.
Brent Holbrook:Our safety brief was if you end up in jail, enjoy your steak, because I ain't getting into a fucking Monday morning.
Charlie Cline:But, if, but, if somebody pissed hot during the week, they would call them out in the front we're gonna run. All 1000 of us have to stand there, 500 of us have to stand there. They'd call you out and then you'd report in, you know, Sergeant, Major or First Sergeant, whoever'd be out there right Report in with the commander P.
Charlie Cline:M O Come walking out of the office.
Charlie Cline:Cuff you up, cuff them and stuff them.
Charlie Cline:And then walk you out.
Charlie Cline:And it was done as a sign of don't be that asshole Skylight, because we're gonna embarrass you in front of everybody, but we'd never see him again, can they would go to the brain. Well, it's kind of like Sonam.
Tim Artibee:I mean, if you think about this, back in the day when his general was running drugs, his general was running drugs. He brought him up to the front of the formation about oh, and I don't know how, it's Sonam Senate, but it probably kind of wants something like this Cuff, cuff, cuff. Hey I don't know how to speak Arabic.
Charlie Cline:So what do you just say to a speaker?
Tim Artibee:Basically, he called him up and said hey, this dude is this general, is doing such a great job and he's doing all this other fucking shit. And he brought the general up and the general saluted and Sonam goes. You don't deal drugs in my fucking army. Boom shot him in the fucking head and dropped him like a bad habit and then he told everybody else Imagine if Donald Trump did that.
Charlie Cline:Yeah, probably should have. So that would have been. I probably would vote for him.
Brent Holbrook:So let me, let me ask you guys something. It was, you know, I think embarrassment shame
Charlie Cline:shame is a big thing Shame is a big thing.
Brent Holbrook:Embarrassment, I think, is a learning tool, I mean even for since we were kids, right, right. So my question is there was a judge who got in trouble not too long ago, and I can't remember what, but low level stuff. I mean fucking stealing stealing a fucking bicycle and shit like that. And what he would do is he would make the perpetrator go out, like this one kid. He stole a bicycle, made him there the side yeah, made them go out and stand with the sign or you know whatever.
Brent Holbrook:So what has this country gotten to? I get when we don't allow that correction, that self reflection to happen and we just fucking throw them in jail because I think, I think, I think the difference is the right judges give you two options.
Charlie Cline:You can stay in the street corner of the sign that says I stole whatever for five days, four hours a day community or you can go to jail for 30 days your choice. Give them the choice. Let them do what they want to do. You got it. You got a choice Get locked up for 30, stand out there for four. At least give them the option. Don't force them to do one or the other, because I would probably take 30 days probably because I know a lot of people in this town.
Charlie Cline:I don't want to have it all there with my face on the fucking street.
Tim Artibee:I would definitely take it or you get them high speed, good judges that are great, outstanding citizens that set on a fucking in our bench, set in their desk and they got a fucking tether on because three weeks ago they got busted for fucking selling cocaine. Wouldn't that happen? And then there's a. There's a judge in Ithaca back in the early 2000. No, 2000, has somebody come up in front of him for driving on an impaired license and he sends this dude for driving on an impaired license when he's sitting on the bench with a fucking ankle bracelet, yeah, yeah, for selling cocaine or using it, selling whatever I think it might have been using. He got busted, they did a stain, they kicked the door in and he was in their fucking lines.
Charlie Cline:Why would he not? Why? Why was he still on the bench? Because he was a judge once getting in her in her lap.
Charlie Cline:Her last episode. We talked about NFO or F screwing the lions. Yeah, and not getting anything for punishment. So, sometimes it depends on who you are and who you know. That's not. That's not ever shade that. We've all seen that in the military Right. If you're good with your superiors, regardless of what level you're at, you could get away with a lot of shit without really getting in trouble. You'll be in trouble, but not really.
Charlie Cline:You're gonna get a really good ass chewing, I could tell you I had a soldier, I had a soldier that he got.
Brent Holbrook:It doesn't include dead hookers does it Definitely.
Charlie Cline:That was Then across me. I was not in Hawaii at the time, so I had a I had up the day before, maybe the night before.
Charlie Cline:Okay, okay. I had a soldier that he tried to make a long story short. He got in a fight with another one of our soldiers. Cops were called. He tried to take the gun away from the cop. He was drunk. He tried to take the gun away from the cop.
Tim Artibee:He's lucky he didn't get shot.
Charlie Cline:Yeah, he's damn lucky he didn't get shot In me. I was a plume sergeant at the time and the first sergeant had to go down to the police station.
Tim Artibee:Oh my God. Now you listen? I have one of them stories too.
Charlie Cline:Listen, he was a great soldier. He turned into a great NCO and we protected him. I don't know about who you know and who you blow, but the thing is he did get an article 15, but he didn't lose his rank.
Tim Artibee:He was a matter of fact, he was a e5. He was a Probably suspended article 15 where you keep, your fucking you keep your fucking nose clean for X amount of days, guess what we were getting ready to go to Iraq.
Charlie Cline:We were getting ready to go to Iraq, so we I'll tell you both.
Tim Artibee:Your punishment is Iraq, so I'll tell you this my guard unit was on a big rapids and there was a place called Schubert's Bar. That good happen to big rapids. Yeah, nothing happens good in big rapids.
Charlie Cline:I can attest to that.
Tim Artibee:So we go into Schubert's and there was this frat guys and I don't remember what frat it was.
Charlie Cline:The imps.
Tim Artibee:I don't know what it was, but anyway it ended up where here we are on the street fighting Right. So I'm a lover, not a fighter man.
Charlie Cline:So there's girlfriend says you hate my little lover. We had her probably in a good fight. So, so anyway, the light detector says that's a lie.
Tim Artibee:So we're doing this and I grabbed this dude and he was probably my side and I was like dude, I really don't want to fight you. And he kind of looked at me and goes I don't want to fight you, like okay. I said how about we just stay in here and pretend like we're keeping everybody else from fighting, right? And he goes okay, well, another E6 that we had I'm not gonna say the name- Bill Payne no, oh was it.
Tim Artibee:Had this fucking dude from the frats. He had the dude bent over a car and he's just fucking driving, he's just fucking beating the shit out of him and everybody else is just kind of partnered up and they're just standing with the dude to make sure nobody else gets involved. Can you get a little closer? Please Shut up you.
Charlie Cline:Navy.
Tim Artibee:So, so anyway.
Brent Holbrook:He put his hands on me first, so anyway so we're just, we're just kind of standing around.
Tim Artibee:Well, then the cops show up, right. Well, the dude from my unit that was pounding this guy's ass. I ended up going to jail. It was Saturday night, right, and the frat guy went to jail and of course they called in the morning to the first sergeant to go get him out of jail. So we're standing in formation, okay, my platoon sergeants. Out in front of the fucking platoon, I'm the first section leader, he's the second section leader and the company commander. When they turn the unit over to the commander to do his thing, he goes. So is interest. Even last night the scouts were out recruiting leads and we have to go pick one of them up from jail, and it was hilarious.
Charlie Cline:It was fucking hilarious.
Tim Artibee:But when that all happened the cops was like we're glad somebody did these cock suckers because these people start fights all the time. But it was hilarious. So Good times, good times. So I want to hit on the OC thing.
Charlie Cline:I want to hit because that was, that was an awesome course.
Tim Artibee:I mean, I hated you know the devil's best in my life.
Brent Holbrook:I hate it, I hate it, I hate it, I hate it, I hate it, I hate it, I hate it, I hate it, I hate it, I hate it. Ring on my eye but what was OC?
Tim Artibee:well, fuck that. Ok, so do we? See course we had to go through it because when I got deployed Iraq we were infantry unit attached, the 759th military police brigade out of Fort Carson, colorado, lone Centennial, I'll give you your props, lone Centiano. So we had to go through all that fucking shit. Right, I'll give you a story about them in a minute.
Joe Gates:What's that? So I'll give you a story about them in a minute.
Tim Artibee:So we had to go through all that and we had this dude. His name was Manley yes, his name was. His last name was Manley and we called him not so.
Charlie Cline:Because he was, he was not so manly.
Tim Artibee:And and they hit him with the OC spray and, like Charlie said, you have to. You know you get sprayed along your eyes and then you got to go through and you got to do all this bullshit I run around. Then you got to put your fucking face in a fan because it feels like your face is fucking Mountain off your fucking face. When they hit Manley he took two steps, fell on his knees. He looked like the dude from Platoon when he was getting shot by I.
Charlie Cline:Like that he straight bitched out.
Tim Artibee:This guy didn't even get to the first fucking thing, minutely hitting me, took two steps and fell. Oh, it's fucking hilarious.
Charlie Cline:So but anyway so now real quick, yeah, cuz I Really get too far past. But when I was in fast company we had a sergeant. We don't go down to Virginia Beach right, norfolk, just outside Norfolk Naval base, we go down to the beach 20 minutes away, straight on the highway. We're the guy that literally Every time we go to a bar club, whatever you want to call him, we don't be sitting there. This guy would go out and he'd dance. He'd find the house girl didn't care who she was dancing with or whatever else the boyfriend, the husband, anything didn't matter. This guy would slide up in between them and start. So we'd be taking our wedding rings off, our watches off, so we end up going out there, we start brawling, I mean pushing and shoving, that gets going, you know.
Charlie Cline:And then I get hit at. At a left field.
Charlie Cline:I'm right down to my knees. I'm like, hey, man, this you know we're breaking it up. I got all these dicks around my face now what one of one of his buddies come out of somewhere. I mean, dotted me and I dropped straight up. I had no idea was even coming. Bam, I'm just trying to break up the fight, you know, because this fucker I'm, like you say his name on here you might listen to this still friends with him on Facebook, but yeah, I mean, so I got up first thing I do now.
Charlie Cline:I'm seeing red. We're going to war you hit everybody. I hit the first guy, see, it is him you know, and we all get bounces. Come in, they break everybody up, cop show up, we all go, they throw us all the big patty wag, you know.
Tim Artibee:Throw us all in that shit there.
Charlie Cline:They're into jail.
Charlie Cline:And you know we go fingerprint, all the bullshit.
Charlie Cline:We're sitting in the holding cell. It's like an hour later we're all going what the fuck just happened. You know really, you motherfucker. We're pissed First time coming. We get a call. We called the guy goes busters. He had to call duty. Yeah, the guy in duty.
Tim Artibee:Yeah, right, oh, sir, so we yes, we call the duty hot, you know we call them the staff duty and see all but well.
Charlie Cline:So we had like a you know be like a land to corporal. We had a corporal out there and then you know you're calling from jail. They start setting up the chain also here come first start, you know. We had a E7 that did our staff essentially build us out and treated painting because we're all military.
Charlie Cline:It was like hey.
Charlie Cline:I'll make sure so we're on restriction and shit. We, we all go all as a group, dress a uniforms front of the judge. You know judges like okay, you know, bob, a body, your military record. Of course we got officers in our first time shits and behind us, you know. Rallincourt knows like okay, you're gonna pay a fine, you're gonna do this, you're gonna do that.
Charlie Cline:I'm sure they'll take care of you.
Charlie Cline:Right, so we all had restricted some of us had to pay fines or anything like that. But I mean it was, it was like motherfucker and they didn't bust us, like they didn't bust us in rank, they didn't take away. All they did was take away the Liperies that we had yeah, because you were with these leads well and but it it was.
Charlie Cline:It was based on the severity of what you did, and all we were trying to do was a break up a fight, and then we got hit. So we're trained you finish the fight. We angle right, like if you get, you get popped. You get up and you start popping people, like you finish the fight that you're in and they, they, literally. If the military wanted to do it, our leadership wanted to do it, they could have ruined 12 guys's military careers Absolutely.
Introduction:They did do it.
Charlie Cline:They could have bust us in rank and gave us NJP's. I mean, they could have done a menagerie of this charge.
Tim Artibee:Yeah, right, and.
Charlie Cline:I think I think they probably had reviewed the video At the time of the fight to see you know hey man, you got sucker punched. What are you gonna do? You're not gonna get up and say, oh man, don't punch me again.
Introduction:You know we're trained to finish the fight.
Charlie Cline:There's no such thing as a fair fight if you and I are brawling the parking lot dirt. I'm picking up saying I'm rubbing it shit in your eyes. Oh yeah because if you can't see me then I can beat the fuck out of you.
Tim Artibee:Yeah, or I'm gonna bite your not off. If I can, if I can get a horse.
Introduction:He's got the nuts, here we go.
Tim Artibee:I'm gonna bite your fucking dick off to win.
Brent Holbrook:Are you gonna beat somebody's dick off to?
Charlie Cline:The crazy thing, guys. I never knew you had teeth because you always have your dentures out. Yeah, I don't have dentures.
Brent Holbrook:I'm telling you Already, I'm gonna say it again, I'm the Navy guy, and yet I'm the only one coming up with all the fucking penis involved, just say it whatever.
Charlie Cline:We're all trained anybody out there listen. We're all trained. There's no such thing as a fair fight, right? Oh yeah, if you get an advance, you always take an advance. So in this instance, you know, I just got up and hit the first guy because I have no idea.
Charlie Cline:We, I have no idea.
Charlie Cline:Right, but they could have literally ruined my military career. Absolutely wanted to. They didn't because they understood I. I Glipped the grass with scissors, you know. I polished the bell with brass off, you know brass all right, like I mean, I did the bullshit Because I deserved it.
Charlie Cline:But at the end of the day, you know they really wanted to screw you.
Charlie Cline:They were gonna screw you, but well, I didn't, they didn't need to. I don't have enough soldiers.
Joe Gates:I got into a altercation with our husband and she ended up getting taken away when he left bruises on her. She never hit him, so there's that side of it. They didn't bust her down or nothing, thankfully.
Tim Artibee:But I was like, yeah, but that whole domestic violence thing in the military is.
Charlie Cline:It's terrible.
Tim Artibee:It's terrible Well let me add it's all fucked up.
Joe Gates:Oh, I got in trouble because I called the MP's on on the whole thing. For that day I'm thinking, hey, we get get him away from her.
Charlie Cline:They took her away, bullshit what, uh, what, what if you guys? When you when you came back from Overseas, came back from Iraq.
Tim Artibee:I never come back. I'm still over there.
Charlie Cline:Were you Because I know me. I was fucking angry and I thought I thought like I would be out and I fought a lot Like in and I that normally was not me. But when I came back after those two tours I did Like I was fucking people up.
Tim Artibee:I would say short answer tray for me is when I, when I came back from Iraq, didn't have a good experience there. Right, right, I think my leadership failed me. Then I came home, bought a house while I was over there with the wife and then she bolted. But at that point in time I didn't have a driver's license so I wasn't able to really Go out into the, into the public very much. So basically I stayed home.
Tim Artibee:Everything that happened was my nephews would come over and see me, my brother would come over and see me. So I kind of isolated. But I was angry. I was angry as a motherfucker. And once I had the opportunity, after the wife left and she filed for divorce, and I'm trying to hold onto a house where I'm still working on getting my driver's license back, not working, you know I didn't go to the VA to get any help, so I'm getting unemployment for the time that I was over there. And then my dad one day said hey, when you got an anchor tied around your leg at some point, you got to cut that fucker off and you got to swim to new shores.
Charlie Cline:I think the military as a whole at least in my experience, they did not do a great job at transitioning us back.
Tim Artibee:Not at all, but I was angry.
Charlie Cline:It was kind of like, I think, a lot of us came back and very quickly got out Well when we came back, you went through that whole.
Charlie Cline:Was it SRP?
Tim Artibee:SRP. It was a reintegration something, and they you know taps, and they were all different. Yeah, whatever you call it.
Charlie Cline:And they would ask you like are you okay, are you? You just wanted to get the fuck out of here. Yeah you're not gonna be like, yeah, I'm fucked up, no, no you don't say that I think that what they need to do is, like it's mandatory, Like you need some counseling, you need to see this there should be how do you feel Should be, you're gonna show up and you're gonna go through this for the next six months or whatever.
Brent Holbrook:Can I share a story real quick?
Charlie Cline:Yeah yeah.
Brent Holbrook:So on that note, and this is kind of in two parts, the first part is I just want the short answer, no shit.
Charlie Cline:Why is all your shit two parts all the time?
Tim Artibee:Okay, this is like a post meeting. You got like three minutes, so go.
Brent Holbrook:Middle finger, no. So one of the things that I found when I got back was my anger. I had fucking rage, which was weird because I was never like that before.
Brent Holbrook:You've been in the Navy for a while, right, but at the same time when I got back, one of the first excuse me when I got out, I should say I did an early out program. It was only like three months early out, but I got accepted to nursing school and so they let me out early, yeah, so I could go into nursing school. The first week of nursing school I found out that one of my friends that I served in Bethesda with had committed suicide. And you know, over time, you know puzzle pieces of the story came in and everything. But as a corpsman, as a medic, right, I know the process, right, when you come back, you when you go, and when you come back you go through pre-deployment screenings to see if you're you know fit.
Brent Holbrook:When you come back, you go through screenings. When you come back the whole night right. So what I had found out was she had a history. I knew she already had a history of some mental health stuff and whatnot. She'd been screwed over by the Navy. She wasn't reassigned the way she was supposed to be. A whole bunch of things happened.
Tim Artibee:The way she was supposed to be, or the way it was supposed to be, or the way she wanted to be.
Brent Holbrook:No, it was supposed to be, because in the Navy we call it C-shore rotation. So a C command is an operational command. Right, so you can deploy a short command is the opposite.
Charlie Cline:You're inside a blue side.
Brent Holbrook:Typically speaking, you don't deploy a short command, so you're supposed to do that in rare circumstances. You know needs of the Navy. That doesn't happen.
Tim Artibee:So anyway that happened to her and what she, when she's supposed to be on the short side she had deployed it Right, she got passed over To go back out to.
Brent Holbrook:She was at a short command. She was supposed to go to another command and be operational or go overseas or whatever, but it didn't happen. And the command that we were at was not a healthy one. It was in the national capital region. So many people kind of knew that it had a lot of drama and stuff. But anyway, I digress.
Brent Holbrook:Point of the story is the fact that you know, towards the tail end things started looking up right. She got married, she you know bunch of different things, very positive things, positive things for her in her life. And then she gets selected for a deployment, a one year unaccompanied billet out in fucking BFE nowhere I'm not gonna mention it because if anybody hears this I don't want her information getting out or anything but she gets selected for this operational billet. She's not gonna see her husband, her new husband, for like over a year, you know, and all these other things happen. And then she goes over and commits suicide.
Brent Holbrook:So I learned all about that when I when I that first week of nursing school, second week of nursing school, and that rage inside me fucking came out because again, as a corpsman, I'm like why the fuck didn't my brothers my other corpsman see this shit Like why didn't they, you know, do their job and everything? And so my question for you guys is you know that change that happens when we come back. Like, what is your experience with, you know the before and after? So, like, for me, beforehand I wasn't an angry person, I wasn't that kind of person, but when I got back, I I'm in my mind going through fucking rage cycles, you know. I mean, do you guys have any input on that?
Joe Gates:I think it's harder to see it if you're there the whole time, so, like you, being yourself the whole time is harder to see it because it's little things. Over time you get back someone who might not have known you really well before you left and someone who knew you after the fact. I think it's gonna be quicker to see it than someone who's a long side here. For the ride.
Charlie Cline:And especially if you're somebody that's been through it, it's harder to see. So even if I didn't wasn't there with you at the time so say I was there two years before you and now you're coming back I'm still seeing in the gray. You know, and I'm gonna give you the benefit of the doubt Nine times out of 10, that's not always the right antidote to it, because I'm like, well, he's just going through what I went through, or she's going through what I went through. That doesn't mean it's right. But I agree with what you're saying. When you don't see somebody for a long time, so say, you weighed 300 pounds, then I'm seeing you in two years and now you weigh 150. But damn man, you lost a lot of weight. I can see a noticeable change. But if I was with you the whole time when you were losing weight, I could tell you're losing weight. But it's not that dramatic of a change.
Introduction:I think it's where you're going with that.
Charlie Cline:So, unfortunately, we give each other the benefit of the doubt, and we probably shouldn't, because we've been there as veterans. We've been there, combat veterans. We've been there, You're gonna be a double master of playing.
Tim Artibee:So we give, we give ourselves Typewriter, what the hell are you doing over there?
Charlie Cline:We give ourselves the benefit of the doubt, when you probably should. We should be more strict on each other, where, when we see somebody struggling, regardless of its substance abuse, with alcohol or drugs, anger man stuff or whatever it is. Whatever, whatever, we should be way more on top of it. Instead, we go okay, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt a little bit. We do our check-ins, but we don't push hard enough.
Charlie Cline:I think a lot of the To make sure that somebody doesn't go grab a gun or grab a string of rope or start beating our kids or get thrown in jail or whatever it is, because at that point it's too late, you've gone too far and we always sit there after our friends killed themselves. I should've seen the signs. I should've known better. Why didn't I call and check on them? Why didn't I grab them up and go do something? And that's why we started blaming ourselves because we didn't do something fast enough.
Brent Holbrook:And we all do. That's why I have become so like I don't know the right word to say, but I've been so focused on when I have difficult conversations with people. I'm fucking blunt about it and I've asked some even post members point blank to the face Are you thinking about suicide?
Charlie Cline:Period.
Charlie Cline:But that's no different than the counselors and we all got back.
Charlie Cline:I think.
Tim Artibee:I'm out of this. Are you having a?
Charlie Cline:problem. Nope, nope, nope, I'm back.
Brent Holbrook:I want the fuck out of here, I guess probably the one area. Give me the fuck out.
Joe Gates:I'm not always entirely it's like technically what you said earlier, but that's true.
Brent Holbrook:And that's true. But I'm still saying, like you know, when you have that change like so I don't know across the desk from somebody, so to speak, right, you're gonna fucking tell them what they wanna hear. When it's a brother or a sister out there, you're gonna hide it even more. You're gonna hide it even more.
Charlie Cline:You'll be more open with a stranger than you were with a brother, because you're not gonna be judged by a stranger than you are from a brother.
Charlie Cline:Listen, I'll tell you a story. Am I wrong? No, you're absolutely right. I'll tell you a story. I will judge you but a stranger won't judge you because they don't know you. I've never told my wife anything about what was going on, what happened over there. I think one time maybe I did, but there was a guy. It was in Amsterdam and he was you did a guy in Amsterdam. You did a guy in.
Charlie Cline:I didn't know they had a sex-restrictive answer. Oh, I mean.
Tim Artibee:What was in Amsterdam? What floor of the hotel was he on? Okay, so that was in Amsterdam.
Charlie Cline:That's two. Okay, he was on the sixth floor.
Tim Artibee:He was on top shelf, so he was on the gay floor.
Charlie Cline:He was talking to me and he was like, oh, you're a soldier, I don't know. He was from another country.
Tim Artibee:You got a pretty mouth. You suck a dick. Huh, he's a pretty guy.
Charlie Cline:So he was like oh, you're from another country.
Tim Artibee:Sorry, little baby Jesus.
Charlie Cline:And I told him I was in the army, blah, blah, blah. And he started to ask me like don't lie, you told him you were a Marine, didn't you? Hell no, and he was asking me all this shit. Like he was asking me all this shit and I was telling him about being in the army, being deployed and everything that's going on over there. And as we were walking back to my wife, she heard a little bit of our conversation. Did you get him a green card? No, I did not. And she was like damn, you told him, you tell him more shit than you told me I was like I'll never see that fucking guy again.
Joe Gates:Yeah.
Charlie Cline:I don't want her to look at me or see me, yep. So, like I say, I think you'll be more honest with the stranger.
Charlie Cline:unfortunately, the truth is because if I come to you guys tonight without the podcast and I bleed my true feelings, you got to see us tomorrow. I have to see you the next time I walk in the post. And I'm not going to be fully honest with you because I don't want you to look at me any differently, and I think that that holds true. So when you do that transition counseling, coming out they're like, hey, you having substance abuse or anger problems? Fuck, no, nope, give me my dude 214 up, I'll just bitch.
Charlie Cline:Because if I tell you any different, you're going to be like no, we're going to hold you another six months yeah.
Joe Gates:No no, no, I'm going to tell you everything is great. When we were on our way out, when we got back from Afghanistan, it was the quicker we get through this process, the quicker we get out and leave this to your family. That's exactly. We can run all 60 guys through the thing in 20 minutes, let's get through it. If one person's like well, I had this and this, it holds up the process.
Charlie Cline:Yeah, and you're like you, motherfucker, so then you'll get your senior leadership. They'll say shut your fucking mouth, tell them what they want to hear.
Charlie Cline:And move the fuck out of here. Yeah, 100%.
Brent Holbrook:So, let me ask you this I don't know about you guys, but senior enlisted for the Navy is the master chief petty officer of the Navy Marines, that's.
Charlie Cline:Sergeant Major Marine Corps.
Brent Holbrook:Sergeant Major Marine Corps. Ok, Sergeant Major of the Army, Every so often he's like an E6 of the Marines. Every so often the mickpaw is what we call them mickpaw. Every so often he'd do a tour and he would go to certain commands, and I had the opportunity to be at both commands that I was stationed at. I had the opportunity of him being there and doing one of these Q&A sessions where he would talk about whatever was going on and then he would open up the floor for questions and answers, and usually it was guys asking dumb fucking questions.
Tim Artibee:No such thing as a dumb question.
Charlie Cline:Oh, you'd be, surprised. There's no such thing as a stupid question.
Brent Holbrook:And that's what they said. There's only stupid people who ask questions. That's what they said. Until a guy walks up to the microphone and he asks the mickpaw for four day weekends for everybody, and then he's like get the fuck out of here.
Charlie Cline:But, anyway.
Brent Holbrook:So my question is this how do we fix this? Because we've all heard the statistic right 22 veterans a day. And if you're not familiar with that, a few years back a VA report came out and estimated that about 22 veterans a day committed suicide, and that's kind of been the rallying cry ever since. And so how do we fix that, both after service but also in service? As Charlie was saying, how do we fix it before the bad shit happens?
Tim Artibee:We don't, and you don't, you can't, you can't, you can't. There's nothing you can, there's nothing you can flip and do about it, man. A person is going to do what a person wants.
Brent Holbrook:I mean, that's true.
Tim Artibee:Because you also.
Charlie Cline:Well, to a certain degree, Like I did, man. To a certain degree.
Brent Holbrook:Well, thanks for sharing. Thanks, you definitely want to know.
Charlie Cline:All of America wants to know. You got a pistol, yeah.
Tim Artibee:OK, but no, I don't forget the flow rate.
Brent Holbrook:I went.
Tim Artibee:I went down to the PTSD training center in Battle Creek and we had we had the suicide awareness and the the. The counselor sat there and said if you have a friend that says they're going to commit suicide, call the police. And we're all like, no, no, because they're not going to help you. They're going to come over, take your fucking gun and throw you in fucking jail. That's what they're going to do. They're not there to help. The police is never there to help. Ok, you, as a brother, what can you do? I mean, if you, if you, if you got in your mind that it's the point in your mind where you're saying I'm done, I'm done, I mean you can talk about it, I'm not going to talk about it, the people that talk about it, so I ain't ready to do it.
Charlie Cline:So what resources?
Charlie Cline:Does the VFW?
Charlie Cline:have yeah.
Charlie Cline:Good question. We have service hours.
Charlie Cline:Obviously, you can reach out to other members.
Tim Artibee:Yeah right, but we're not trained and we're not trained to talk, so there's the suicide prevention line I am.
Charlie Cline:I'm trained in that, got trained in the military. About suicide prevention, don't ask me.
Charlie Cline:Don't ask me how. Hey, so we have. We have to have with the gates. Also, as Phoenix, she was here a few episodes ago. She's trained in it, master's degree in the social work, social, something or other. Psychology, yeah, health psychology.
Charlie Cline:Health psychology. I'm trained in the suicide stuff at work.
Tim Artibee:But, does it but does it work? I haven't had to use it yet. Well, that's what I'm saying, but basically, basically, they come out and say if you, if you and I think this podcast is a week we jumped in another, another boat. I think this might go a little longer than we thought.
Joe Gates:But yeah that's all right, and so we're here to help veterans.
Tim Artibee:OK so If one of my Joe's and I'm not even going to use Joe's, I'm used brothers One of my brothers called me up and said hey, so I'm going to, I think I'm going to fucking kill myself. Ok, how, how do I handle it personally? First of all, I'm like I'm probably the East Southern's going to take care of him. Like what the fuck you talking about? Come on, man, you ain't going to let this shit put you down, come on, rock up. And then if he's like, no, no, I'm really, I'm really going to, really going to fucking do it, I'm going to, then I'll be like where you at, well, if I can't drive to his house, if he lives in fucking Illinois and I can't drive to his house, I'm going to say, hey, dude, let me, let me get you some help. Ok, but usually, once, if a person's talking about it, they don't want to, they're not doing it, they don't want to. Well, they don't want to do it, but they, they will Sometimes. Yes, corey Belant God rest his soul.
Charlie Cline:I'm just a fucking call, Typically if they reach out and say I'm going to do something. They really don't want to do it, they're thinking about it.
Tim Artibee:What's the question? You ask what's what's? And that's what I I never. I'm not trained on it, but I know what I think personally. If I call Charlie up and said dude, I'm over it, do you? I'm going to, I'm going to eat a fucking bull.
Tabatha Gates:Question that you're going to ask them is do you have a plan? You want to get right down to it.
Tim Artibee:Well, obviously I have a plan. I'm an infantry guy, I always have a play.
Tabatha Gates:Some people may not. Some people might have a plan, though you want to know do they have a plan? That's the first thing you want to ask.
Charlie Cline:So actually we had a local guy here. My cousin died in a car accident and his best friend literally best friend they had lunch every day. Be like my best friend's gone. I got nothing to live for and I saw a post on Instagram, maybe maybe his Snapchat. I reached out to him. I gave us going on. You know, I know the guy pretty well, shoot darts with him and do all the things, but he was like I got no one to go to lunch with him, like he was like down to the dump.
Tim Artibee:Come to lunch with us.
Charlie Cline:I fucking like being where I live and my best friends fucking dead. And first thing I did, I jumped on the phone and Lady General will tell you the story. I was down in the bedroom and I was Googling shit. I had my phone, I was talking to him, but I was Googling at the same time Like what do you talk? What do you say to somebody you know? So sometimes it was like, oh you know, talk about tomorrow, talk about next week, talk about the good things to do, talk about how much you're going to miss them. Say, you know, just get them talking, because a lot of times that actually helps. So if you have the smartphone and you're worthy of getting on and being on Google, no, we're not a user.
Tim Artibee:Yeah, you know you don't have, you know you don't have Tim's flip phone.
Charlie Cline:But I'm just saying like, I mean, there's things that you can quickly Google, but typically what it said when I was going through, it open any questions, keep them. Yeah is maybe just kind of keep them talking, talking about the future, talking about the good things they do, talking about I get it man, Like you know, you lost your best friend. It fucking sucks. I understand it's tough times, you know, but you know they wouldn't want you to do this, because they're gone.
Tim Artibee:Kind of kind of thing, right, what are you?
Charlie Cline:telling me and I don't know, is that correct?
Tabatha Gates:Yeah, I mean, I was just Googling things. Keep them talking, like you said.
Brent Holbrook:Yeah, well, keep them talking and, I think, positivity in general he actually is.
Charlie Cline:This house is in Alma, 20 minutes south of Mount Puzza. I drove down, you know, and sat in his kitchen for two hours on a Wednesday night.
Charlie Cline:Did he have a gun Thursday night? Well, he has. Yeah, he has weapons, but he didn't know.
Charlie Cline:No, he didn't have a mom, His wife was actually upstairs in the bedroom sleeping and then we sat in his kitchen at 11 o'clock to 1 am. You know I went down there. I mean that's what we do, and this is not a VFW member, it's just a guy in old from town, good dude, and he's doing well now, but you know, like literally his best friend so.
Charlie Cline:I mean, I understand right so sometimes that dirt happens, I wouldn't know for sure we all go through it.
Charlie Cline:Yeah, and when it happens quickly, you know, that's all of a sudden.
Introduction:It's not like the guy was dying.
Charlie Cline:It's not. The guy was dying from cancer for three years and he was coming. You died of the car accident, so it was overnight change. It's a shock.
Tabatha Gates:It's a big difference Ultimately, like if you're on the phone or whatever with somebody like that and you can't get to them and they're dead set on they're going to do this. That's when you're calling the ambulance or something on the side to have him for sure. Headed to their house at the same time. Well, keep him on the phone.
Charlie Cline:I just took it as a sign that he was talking to me. Yep. Was he really doesn't want to do it. He's just in a bad place. Yeah absolutely so, the fact that he reached out, or I reached out to him and that he was talking to me, saying you know like my life's not worth living now. You know, like he didn't want to really do it but and he had a wife he just she was upstairs sleeping.
Tim Artibee:You had a wife and I mean I could see, I guess me.
Charlie Cline:No, if that's due to have lunch with you like four days a week, every fucking week. Ok, but if you die tomorrow, do you not think it's like taking it no?
Tim Artibee:no, I understand that, but I wouldn't think that would take that effect because you still have a wife, you still have kids, I know, but you still have.
Charlie Cline:Listen, well, no, his his most guys. Most guys, right, but be they military or not military, Don't want to show that vulnerability to their family, to their yeah, to their wife, to their kids.
Tim Artibee:Ok, that's, that's good, Good.
Charlie Cline:And and the reason why I'm not going to say his name, because it's it's not necessarily the the bro code, right, but trust it is, and it's the reason why it's easier to talk to a stranger than it is to talk to a brother. So if you came to me with an issue now, you're going to be like well, I look weak to that guy. And we're all a type personality people being in the military. You don't want to look weak.
Tim Artibee:So I don't cry, so we don't cry.
Charlie Cline:Well, so we don't, we don't cry in baseball, that's right, so crying in baseball you know.
Tim Artibee:I mean, that's just the reality. See, I went up to the VA. I recently got back involved with the VVV VA Because I've been I haven't gone for there for a while and I'm falling apart. I got a left knee today. I took a digger out of the VW and blew up a fucking shoulder, so I don't know what's going on.
Charlie Cline:You say you know Terry Kunst. He was out shoveling took a header probably going to be a word cop, claim coming your way.
Tim Artibee:Yeah, so. So I got a lot of shit, but I did a mental health thing and I didn't make the meeting because I forgot about it. So they're they're hammered on me about it and I got to call them back. But when I, when I went up for the initial, you know I had to ask the 16 questions.
Charlie Cline:Yeah.
Tim Artibee:How do you feel? And you feel this way X amount of days, depressed, well, and then they come up and said are you worried about? Are you worried about, there we go.
Charlie Cline:That look we don't want to talk about it right when we come back and we don't want to answer those questions. And still to this day. Yeah, you're like blah, blah, blah.
Tim Artibee:Well then they're like then they're like are you, are you thinking about hurting yourself or others? So I'm sitting there and I'm looking at this and I looked at the lady and I said, well, this question is kind of kind of messed up. And she goes why? And I said, well, because I'm not going to hurt myself, but there are some motherfuckers I really like to hurt. I'm like, and she, she kind of giggled, she kind of giggled, and she goes well, what do you mean?
Tim Artibee:I said I will never take my life. Well, never, because when I'm gone, that that ends me as much pain as I might be in and not be in, or all that bullshit that ends my pain, and all that does is put it on my mother, my brothers, my sisters, my son, my granddaughter. Never do it, will never do it. And I think me and you've talked about this a little bit, charlie because I get down, I get depressed, I get in that deep, dark places that we don't talk about at parties. Right, I get it. I get there where I don't give a fuck and I can lay in bed for fucking three days and not do a fucking thing, but I will never hurt myself. I will never hurt myself.
Tim Artibee:Now, somebody else that's 50 50. But but but when I when I said that, because that was one of the questions that they flag, are you going to hurt yourself? No, I'm not going to hurt myself, not going to hurt myself because it's not about me, it's about my family and friends and unfortunately, there are people out there. We're looking at it actually.
Charlie Cline:They're.
Tim Artibee:Unfortunately, there are people out there that don't see that man, corey Belan, god dressed his soul. A good kid, a good kid. I actually juked him in basketball in Germany and he jumped out of his fucking combat boots and I just went around and laid up.
Charlie Cline:But anyway you should have dumped it.
Tim Artibee:I can't dunk. I'm a white dude dude, You're like six four no, I'm not like six one.
Charlie Cline:OK, he was like six four.
Tim Artibee:And this dude could jump through the roof. But he, he called me. I was doing a accounting home and this would have been my Third drug driving and I'm not proud of any of Well, the first one was impaired, but that was. That was a woman's fault, but that's the side point. He called me right, I'm sat in that fucking VFW, I'm doing my accounting homework. The old bar manager was a count major, so she was helping me phone Corey Boulin. I was like, yeah, I'll get that later. Ok, finished it. Run through the checklist. Boom, good to go.
Tim Artibee:Got on the phone 20 minutes later hey, is Corey there? Mom answered it. Nope, it was like, oh, can you tell him to give me a call? He called me. She goes. Well, he's not going to be calling anybody, he just committed suicide, yeah, yeah. And I was like oh, because I didn't have a fucking two minutes to pick up a fucking phone to say hey, bro, what up? So I went up to the bar and started fucking, hammer drunk. And then I went down to the green spot, hammer drunk. And then I took off out of the green spot when I had three people tell me hey, we'll give you a ride home. I got it.
Charlie Cline:Bam, yeah, yeah you deserve what you got because you listen well, Joe, uh, Joe does a fucking terrible thing that's always the problem because we, we. Somebody does something terrible and we think why didn't they pick up the phone?
Joe Gates:Well, I don't know that was more important than that, but you don't. You have no idea. There's no way to know.
Charlie Cline:No, this is not that's.
Tim Artibee:that's the thing, yeah but I'll tell you what. Right now I Know Typewriter God, that should be a Name If you call me old, dark 30 when I don't want to answer the fucking phone. When it rings and I roll over, to who can it be? Now, fuck it's trade. I'm gonna answer the motherfucking phone. I'm gonna answer it for Charlie. I'm gonna answer for Joe Bretton Tabatha anybody that's in my list of friends. I am gonna answer the fucking phone.
Tim Artibee:It doesn't matter if I'm hammer drunk or not. I was gonna say six inches deep and snapper, it doesn't matter.
Charlie Cline:More like two or two yeah.
Tim Artibee:I had no idea about that. I might be talking to you, you be here.
Charlie Cline:Hey, Tray, how you?
Brent Holbrook:doing. I don't think that's the fault. I don't think you'd be able to keep up that tempo. Yeah, I'm gonna give you a high five for that.
Charlie Cline:Yeah, I'm gonna give you a high five for that I'm gonna give you a high five for that.
Brent Holbrook:That was pretty good for a Navy guy. Gotta try a slower ballad.
Charlie Cline:But on the serious end of it you know we talked about the survivors guilt. It doesn't matter if you were in on the. They get gets blown up. Absolutely.
Introduction:You're the only guy that makes it out.
Charlie Cline:I'm scared somehow and everybody else is fucked up or dead. That's that survivors guilt, stuff happens. The fact that you didn't answer the phone, can I?
Brent Holbrook:throw. Yeah, you're more welcome.
Charlie Cline:Sorry, you hit survivors guilt.
Brent Holbrook:I'm sorry the way my brain works. I'm not fucking for you. So the only thing I'm gonna say is if you haven't read the white donkey by Maximilian, you are today, I believe, the guy who does. I'm not going there. The guy who writes terminal lance comics, did you?
Charlie Cline:The only donkey thing I know is from TOY. That's a really different podcast. I was gonna say.
Tim Artibee:I thought he said if you haven't read, the white donkey.
Charlie Cline:He watched the white donkey. In the long term he's gonna be transformed.
Tim Artibee:Do you have a man? But here we. You know what? Here we are again. What we're talking about is survivors, guilt, Guilt. But now we're making jokes Because we.
Charlie Cline:We're twisted, we're going away from it because we don't want to feel it. We don't want to feel it. So I've had a few guys there Serve with Guilt themselves as well, or died under Various Weird circumstances, but they knew Hillary Clinton. But we do Like. I mean it was like why didn't I answer the phone call, yeah, or why didn't I spend enough time on it? So now, when I see a guy struggling, absolutely I don't lay off. I'll check in, but if I don't think you're doing what you should be doing, I'm gonna start calling on it, because I'm not gonna leave that on myself again. It's happened once before and who I call or who I talk to is probably not gonna like it, because I'm just like Brent, I'm super blunt. I will say this for all you guys out there.
Tim Artibee:That motherfucker is a bulldog, because if I don't, if I say, hey, I'm doing tomorrow the motherfucker's on me for the next fucking Seven days eating my ass, saying Well. Not eating nothing, but.
Charlie Cline:I will be calling to say Did you do this? Did you do this? Absolutely, I do remind, but If I don't know you that well, it's like hey man how you doing.
Charlie Cline:Where's the status in this? Where's the status in that? If I think you're bullshitting me, I'm gonna call you on it. Absolutely, I think a lot of us will try to hide Behind it, rather than actually doing it Like we're gonna tell you yeah, I did this. I'm gonna reach out to someone that's Done it or been there as a double check To see if you're bullshitting me or you're telling me the truth, cause maybe I haven't been there.
Charlie Cline:Right, so if it's like, hey, did you reach out to a counselor? Yeah, but they're telling me this. He's been there. Hey, man have you been through it and what they tell you, and I'll be able to balance if I think you're telling me the truth or you're lying to me and you're Telling me that you did it, but you really didn't do it. Because If it weren't for them, why is it not working for you? That doesn't make any sense to me.
Charlie Cline:You know what I?
Charlie Cline:mean, and I think we all Try to hide behind the shield of. We don't want to be the vulnerable guy when we've talked about that a little earlier, but we don't want people to think that we're weak Cause we're all the egg type personality people.
Brent Holbrook:So that kind of leads me to To ask if we can start Potentially talking about some Solutions, some things that we might be able to do, throw some ideas out there. Not that we're gonna you know An act of this big old program and shit tomorrow, but you know Something that I think Should change On the act of duty side. We'll talk veterans here in a second, but on the act of duty side, there absolutely should be more Mental health professionals.
Brent Holbrook:Yep absolutely Civilian or otherwise, I don't give a fuck, but there should be more mental health professionals. That's number one. And number two, the Personality that you guys were mentioning, the way just that we carry ourselves, and the way that we are.
Charlie Cline:We're all macho.
Charlie Cline:Men man, we're all macho men, macho, macho men, but it's like.
Brent Holbrook:We need to start being honest with ourselves and with that Chains of command Need to start Fucking, chilling out. Because I'll tell you my experience. I the last part of my time in Hawaii. Before I came home, I went to mental health. I went to two appointments, just two, and it was A slightly asserted that my time would be better spent On the clock at the clinic Rather than you know in mental health.
Brent Holbrook:But guess what? I did the same working hours that I did. So what the fuck? You know that's. The first thing I wanted to Touch on was the Is everything with you?
Charlie Cline:two fucking parts.
Charlie Cline:I know.
Tim Artibee:It's kind of like the put it in and pull it out.
Charlie Cline:Your fucking road name is going to be two parts, two parts. Join the race groups so I can fucking Road name. I don't give a fuck how the membership votes. That's your fucking name. Two parts, go ahead, brent.
Charlie Cline:VP's got my back I know he does.
Charlie Cline:I love you.
Charlie Cline:No, I was.
Brent Holbrook:I was done with that. I know it's not going to change it's not going to change overnight, but the culture Of Military you start beyond.
Charlie Cline:Being honest with ourselves. That's what I was saying is when we come back from deployment and they throw us through a fucking SRP. We got to go to 20 different stations and check the box, yeah, and they're like are you doing okay? Are you fine? Yeah, I'm good.
Charlie Cline:I'm looking at my beard again.
Charlie Cline:At the time. At the time, I felt Fine. I did feel fine, I'm back. I'm happy to be in American soil.
Brent Holbrook:Yeah, I was doing Fucking fine.
Charlie Cline:Ask me Six months later.
Tim Artibee:Years later.
Charlie Cline:How are you doing? I'm not good because I'm ready to kill a mother fucker.
Tim Artibee:That's Vietnam vats All over again. They come home from Vietnam and they were just Thank you, jesus, with your golden halo and your wings singing Leonard Skinner. You know they're like Thank you for letting me be home. And now and then they want to work. Same with the World War II veterans. They came home and they didn't have the VA like we have they didn't get nothing.
Tim Artibee:They came home and guess what? Hey, you're home, you're alive. Now get your fucking asses back to fucking work. Start supporting your family, start being a productive member of society, and we don't give a fuck About your shell shock or anything else.
Charlie Cline:Just go to work.
Tim Artibee:Get back to business. Vietnam was Korea, everyone, everyone from Vietnam back Desert Storm. Desert Storm was the same fucking way, everything was the same fucking way, until we got into the Iraq thing and then all of a sudden it became it's not shell shock anymore, it's just a TSD and it's just a different animal, you know? But Absolutely 100%, 100%.
Charlie Cline:I think the military just needs to do a better job of Taking care of his people. Well, as far as Like we were talking about training and deconstructing. Like, listen, you're gonna come in and we're gonna do a fucking Deep dive. Whether you like it or not, that's what we're gonna do.
Tim Artibee:We're gonna crawl into places that you don't talk about In parties.
Charlie Cline:So you come back and you got Three months to get out. How deep can they get Without holding you past?
Charlie Cline:your contract. Well, pretty deep, but I mean.
Joe Gates:At the same time.
Charlie Cline:I didn't get out.
Charlie Cline:You're gonna have those. That's why you got like a basketball team.
Joe Gates:Nine kids. They're gonna change the command that are gonna have them do that and they're gonna go. Well, you were at this counseling for an hour today, so when you just stay in our pass everybody else to make up that time. That happens as well.
Tabatha Gates:I would almost suggest that they have it Like as part of the if you want your benefits, then you have to continue on doing this.
Charlie Cline:Well, listen, I truly believe this too Is you do if you deploy. If you're deployed, you're at least Fucking 10% disabled. Now you got VA disability, now you got VA insurance and you can go see somebody and Like you were saying. If you're getting out, charlie. If you're getting out in a couple of months after that, then you still have this VA insurance that you can utilize to go.
Charlie Cline:See a, but that's gonna be on your own accord to go Seek it. It can't be a mandatory.
Tim Artibee:You can't mandatory it.
Introduction:You can't.
Tim Artibee:A motherfucker is gonna do what a motherfucker wants.
Charlie Cline:Yeah, but if you get out and you have no fucking health insurance, and then you feel that you're Fucked up and then you have no way to Pay for it. You're not gonna do it. That's why, if you deploy Automatically, you got a 10%. Why does it have to?
Tim Artibee:be deployed Well.
Joe Gates:If you're right.
Charlie Cline:But if you've earned, I think we're just going.
Brent Holbrook:The chances are high because you've deployed.
Charlie Cline:You got at least 10%. If you got deployed, you're I'm already in surf.
Charlie Cline:But there's a difference between being deployed in 1995 and 2008, right. So combat zone, noncombat deployments Very well could be totally different things. I think, you're going more to the combat oriented deployments.
Tim Artibee:Yeah, so basically, if you're eligible, For the VFW Hazard pay duty.
Charlie Cline:You know Danger pay, combat pay. You know you've earned combat action. You've earned different medals because you're in theater, that kind of stuff. I think that's where you're going with that.
Tim Artibee:Can we throw that out? What? I'm throwing out, though, is if, if you surf If you fucking surf, because everybody's Eligible for the VA Thing If you surf, you can't tell me there's people that didn't go to combat, that had the same fucked up shit that we did, so they deserve the same thing. And this is going to throw A monkey wrench into mine and Charlie's conversation, because we always talk about the Legion and the VFW and the varsity team and the JV team he hates it.
Tim Artibee:And that's what I'm saying. Just because they didn't go overseas, they're still fucked up, and that's what I'm saying. So, like Trey said, like Trey said, how about, man, if you served your fucking country? Because you're fucked up, because the way the military is, you're fucked up, you're coming out fucked up to some degree. So give everybody that comes out of the fucking Military. Whether it's four years, six years, a minimum of ten years, and then Later down the road when, all of a sudden, maybe, maybe, you're on the re-show.
Charlie Cline:I'll throw this out okay, females.
Tim Artibee:Now we have Coed units, coed infantry I've heard something about that which I think that's wrong is six guys blowin' seven Because someone's?
Charlie Cline:got dicks in the mouth. Raycors got that, which has never been that way.
Brent Holbrook:Let's say let's say Shit's and giggles.
Tim Artibee:There's a chick in her fucking Infantry unit and she gets raped, but she never deploys, she never goes anywhere, she doesn't say anything and then she gets out and the rest of her life Because she doesn't do anything about it.
Charlie Cline:Ten percent PTSD. But I can tell you this Military sexual trauma. For anybody that's listening out there that may have suffered to that I know Tim was raped many times Consensually.
Tim Artibee:I still do it too, consensually, though Consensually okay, that's like a hundred percent.
Charlie Cline:A hundred percent On your VA. Military sexual trauma, that's a thing, it's in the book and you get a hundred. Pretty much a hundred percent. But how many times is it covered up?
Tim Artibee:At the post or the slot.
Brent Holbrook:A lot, a lot, a lot.
Tim Artibee:I think again. So if you do what you're saying which I agree with it, ray I think that's a great idea, if you serve our fucking country, if you write. If you put your name on the dotted fucking line. You deserve ten percent, ten percent. Minimum and then later on if you're fucked up, if you're fucked up and your head's all fucked up Because you got fucking.
Joe Gates:You got resources. Yeah, you got resources. Some stuff takes a while to come up too. I think some stuff takes a while to come up too.
Tim Artibee:Well, yeah, the Vietnam veterans. They found the Vietnam veterans that were fucked up. It didn't hit them until.
Charlie Cline:Ten twelve.
Tim Artibee:Ten, twelve years after they got out.
Charlie Cline:And then all they're all like.
Joe Gates:My grandfather. We're two guys.
Charlie Cline:And you were talking about shell shocked earlier. He was the same way, right. He was laying on beaches all across Pacific and he was the same way. You know where that was the unknown Right? We didn't have PTSD. They called it shell shocked back in the day. He wasn't like that when he was zoned out, he couldn't function or anything, but it was years and years and years and years later. You know where he was.
Tim Artibee:Like it's loud noises behind him. It started beating out of.
Charlie Cline:You know, in his 40s, In his 50s he lived until his mid 80s. He's been dead 20 years now, but I mean it was In his later years. It got bad.
Tim Artibee:Yeah, because back then, back then, the motherfuckers Thank you for serving World War II, thanks for serving. Go home and fucking do your job. Go Korea, go do your job.
Charlie Cline:Well, like I told you, His enlistment Because he got drafted but he went enlisted so he could be in the Rain Threather and get skittin' and throwin' and wherever His enlistment was. Duration so as long as World War II went on he wasn't getting out For a two year, four, year, six year, so he was there for the duration of World War II. It was literally.
Charlie Cline:It said duration Damn, he was there a whole fucking time.
Charlie Cline:But I mean, if that war went on for 20 years.
Tim Artibee:He was there for 20 years.
Charlie Cline:From the second he started to the second it got out it was duration of the war. You didn't get a four year enlistment, it was duration.
Tim Artibee:So he got drafted.
Charlie Cline:To whatever you had back then, so you might as well enlist.
Charlie Cline:Well, that's why he did, Because you were going to be until it was over. There was no like, okay, I'm just going to do my four years and I'm going to sail off in the sunset, or I'm going to go do my year in Vietnam and my training for a year and two years and I'm out of here. Back in the World War II days, it was duration of the war. And it could have been. If you went day one, you could have been day Nine thousand before you got out.
Charlie Cline:Imagine that fucking, if we had drafted kids, afghanistan war that was 20 years.
Charlie Cline:That's what I'm saying, it's duration. Now I think we're talking A lot of differences between then and now. Right, yeah, because Back then we didn't give a shit what the town had for people and we were corporate mom in every fucking thing.
Joe Gates:I mean, there was just a different Time era.
Charlie Cline:We didn't care how many camels we killed, we didn't care how many civilians we killed. Because that was a deal when I was in Iraq, like I mean, when we were rolling through the desert, it was like you had to go past the herder Because if you killed his prize camel Now we had to pay his family. For a million dollars Because we killed his. We killed his prize camel. That did all the breeding or whatever. We have farmers here in America.
Charlie Cline:They have the bulls. They sell us the sperm For ten thousand dollars a buyer. I'm one of them. I'm the buyer.
Tim Artibee:He's the buyer. He's the buyer.
Charlie Cline:At the end of the day. We had to buy back In my grandfather's day. They just waved the fucking. They turned the caskos Into a parking lot.
Charlie Cline:Can I tell you about? You were paying people over there.
Tim Artibee:Oh, I know, you know, because you were giving away a dance.
Charlie Cline:I did it and listen. We would kill A woman's husband Accidentally. He may have gotten a convoy.
Tim Artibee:Yeah, and he might have had an AK-47 Shooting at us, mother fuckers, but we killed him.
Charlie Cline:These were people. They did the investigation. He was not a threat, he was a non-combat, he was just fucking stupid Because he got the wrong place at the wrong time. Yeah, wrong place at the wrong time, driving into the convoy and somebody decided to light his ass up.
Tim Artibee:Because you, he couldn't read the stay back A hundred fucking feet thing.
Charlie Cline:Yeah, exactly. And here's the thing. Do I feel bad for those guys? Not really, because, and Even if you don't have fucking signs, you know what the fucking US military is there to do. We're there to fuck shit up and kill people. So guess what? Don't drive anywhere near those convoy. Matter of fact, if I was there and I saw that convoy- I'd take another.
Tim Artibee:I'd take another street. I'm pulling off the fucking road.
Joe Gates:I'm parking.
Charlie Cline:I'm waiting 20 minutes and then I'm gonna go, maybe Connor Stallion, maybe Michigan stole the signs. But, you know what we would pay those?
Charlie Cline:I'll tell you what.
Charlie Cline:I paid the spouses that we killed their husbands Accidentally $1,500.
Charlie Cline:That's it $1,500 $500.
Tim Artibee:Yeah, but over there that's like a million, that's a million there.
Charlie Cline:It's a lot of money over there. It's not a million but it's a lot.
Joe Gates:Did that go to her or her father? It went to her.
Charlie Cline:But listen. So she had the brother Of the husband that was killed Waiting outside for her. So I would have to give her $300 here and then $1,200. So when he, when she went out there and the brother's waiting for that, and she would give him the $300, like here you go, and then she had the $1,200, she got the $1,200 on the sign yeah yeah, yeah, she would show it up her ass or whatever. The hell Wait, man.
Tim Artibee:She probably got another husband.
Charlie Cline:And you should have him too. So, for instance, you and Tim showed up and they would give you $300 to you, tim would take you $300, and then you and I would have a side combo and I'd hand you $1,200.
Tim Artibee:So he didn't know anything about it, because the brother, the brother is more important than the wife. Yeah, yeah.
Charlie Cline:But, the brother was waiting outside, like they would be like no, you're not a part of this, you're not coming into the Under the five. So the wife would come Around the five and come to my office, and then I would give her the money, and then she would go outside. And she'd have this $300 and be like Because he wanted all of it.
Tim Artibee:Did you? Do any interviewing With these girls.
Charlie Cline:Yeah, the casting coach in his office. Did you have the casting coach?
Tim Artibee:AJ Scowell. Hey, I have a pool table with the post, hey.
Brent Holbrook:We just refelted that pool table.
Tim Artibee:I know. I know, although Scowell Marquette from Pocus, no, no, I put never mind, you gotta chalk up the stick. You know what I'm saying.
Charlie Cline:So I think tonight's conversation has been good, because these are the things as the macho man Right, the A-type personality people that need to realize If they have to reach out, they have to look.
Charlie Cline:You know, we laugh and we make the jokes, because that's what we do, because we're even afraid Of talking about it. So that just goes to show that the other people that are out there that are really, really afraid of talking about it, we talk about it but laugh. But after is the best medicine. Well, you know, it just comes down to those things where None of us want to show weakness.
Brent Holbrook:Well, I vote for this one.
Charlie Cline:I said that I don't want to.
Charlie Cline:I agree, I don't want to.
Charlie Cline:I think I said that we're really good fucking friends.
Tim Artibee:And I don't even want to show you weakness. I think I said that last podcast. I don't like to cry.
Charlie Cline:We should, but we don't and we won't. There's no amount of fucking talking to us, but you know what we will If it was just me and you or me and Charlie, or me and Brad, or me and Joe.
Tim Artibee:If you were hurting that deep In your fucking guts, in your soul and your heart and we would, if I'm not mistaken and Charlie's gonna throw me under the bus here Because I've been with Charlie and I've talked to Charlie- about a lot of deep things Not like that I just want to clarify.
Charlie Cline:I'm not in the Navy.
Tim Artibee:I'm not in the Navy.
Charlie Cline:I just want to clarify.
Tim Artibee:But I've talked to Charlie About a lot of stuff, a lot of relationship stuff, a lot of hurting, a lot of stuff, a lot of anger, a lot of stuff that I'm feeling, and I'm guessing, a time or two that Charlie might have seen a tear or two. I'm guessing that, I can't say that, but I would agree with that Because I'm comfortable with the dude man and I know that. If I get to the point when I just need somebody to grab on To and just cry I got him.
Charlie Cline:You should be looking at my eyes right now. What you're saying? Charlie's got aigre mice no. But I think Some of the differences, too, are just in the people that you want to talk to Absolutely, because you should always know If you're going to come to me with something Confidential. I'm not going to spread your shit Around the post or the internet or anybody else.
Charlie Cline:I want you to have some confidence In me To know that I'm not going to run around and spread your weakness to everybody that I know, because that rumor mill, that happens and I think that's a lot of the reason why people don't want to say something, because they're afraid that. Can you tell me something personal that's biting on you? That's the juicy gossip. I'm going to run around until everybody.
Tim Artibee:Hey Tim, whatever's going on, tim's hurting for certain, and he's all hung up on this and that.
Charlie Cline:And the other thing I think that should happen too often when people don't want to relinquish. That's really bothering them Because they're afraid it's going to get out. Anybody that gets.
Tim Artibee:But hold on. Another thing I'm going to throw out there. Unfortunately, we have some people that are in our posts that see it, feel it before you say it. We got a couple through three people and most of our female persuasions. They that. They that they pick up on Joe broke something to give, not me. This time they pick up on some stuff that that you know, when I'm having a bad hair day and I ain't got no hair, by the way when I'm having a bear it bad hair day, there's a. There's probably three people in our posts that know it female persuasion and they walk up and they say hey, how you doing I'll be like I'm good and they're like no you're not.
Tim Artibee:No, you're not fuck, you know you're not, so that that's important too, because because you try to hide it like Charlie sometimes you try to hide it, but you know you can't hide, you can't make the funk
Charlie Cline:but I want. What I want to do is I want to bring Tabitha in who is a mental health she's a mental health professional and could maybe give us a perspective on how fucked up are we, tabitha?
Tim Artibee:you're professional. She's like do you want the whole list? Because I got you want the 400 hour list?
Tabatha Gates:or do you just want to clarify that? That's out of my scope of practice.
Charlie Cline:We're doing good on time, so you got another half hour for you but what I'm gonna say?
Tabatha Gates:this Tabitha's won honestly, I think that you guys together, feeding off of each other, helps a lot.
Tim Artibee:There are people out there who don't have that but on the same hand, when I walk in the post, I walk in the post. There's Kimmy and there's you that immediately go. They can set well.
Tabatha Gates:I've also had the relationship with you as well, so I can read you like a book so you can, you can sense a difference.
Charlie Cline:Yes, I can smell it but no, well, tabitha is they make fun of me, but I'm an empath.
Tabatha Gates:I said, yes, I call her a witchy witchy witchy witchy broad, which is broad, kimmy is
Charlie Cline:too, I'll tell you, kimmy, back to.
Tim Artibee:Rebecca's, another one Jen's we're back as another one, but I'll tell you what. Tabitha and Kimmy.
Tim Artibee:Sometimes I don't even fucking want to be around them, because when I'm having a bad hair day and I'm feeling a certain kind of way and I'm angry and I'm pissed off because of my own personal relationship, which Tabitha knows about, charlie knows about, trey knows about, joe knows about, bretton knows about, because I mean, you guys know about it. But when I walk in the post and Tabitha walks up and says, hey, how you doing and I'm going fine, she's like liar liar pants are fine, but if you're not wanting to talk about it. I don't push either, absolutely absolutely and I appreciate it.
Tim Artibee:So you don't push him. But when we first got together, you fucking sat on me and said talk.
Charlie Cline:Well, you know, and that's the thing, like my wife, my wife has always been like I want you to tell me, I want you to tell me everything. Like you know the things that happen over there.
Charlie Cline:You really want me to tell you yeah, right, no, and that's the thing, no, not.
Charlie Cline:Not only will I not tell you, not, I will never tell you right. I'll never fucking tell you.
Tim Artibee:Tabitha, if you ever come up to me and sit on my chest and say, tell me everything, I'm gonna be spilling like a bean girl. I'm gonna tell you everything.
Charlie Cline:I'm gonna make shit up at the end of the day, I think we all are vulnerable and we don't want to give away a secret unless we know that it can be kept confidential and because we don't want to hear the rumor.
Joe Gates:No, we don't want to have somebody look at us, any different and we don't want to be thrown back in our face later either, right?
Charlie Cline:and and we don't want to be the person that fucking seems weak. I mean, I just hate to say it is that because we've all gone through different experiences, we've all gone through different times, we've all gone through different shit and we just want to have our personal stuff. But it's nice to talk to somebody that understands us, might get us, give us good advice, or just fucking listen for a minute and not judge us.
Charlie Cline:Yeah, absolutely that's, and that's the worst thing is like you know, we don't want to be judged for the way we feel or the way we think or the things that we have going on, and unfortunately, you know, shit gets talked about you good or bad, or the ugly, whatever it is, and I think that's why a lot of guys hide shit, because they don't want the drama and it turns into drama absolutely.
Charlie Cline:I believe and I hate to say it and and I would hope that the brothers out there, the sisters out there listening, understand if somebody comes in with you something important, don't don't spread it. Talk to them, work with them. Don't don't talk behind their backs like.
Tim Artibee:Understand what they're going through, help them with their situation don't have to agree with it you know for sure, just listen, just listen, just be someone that listens but even even give them sound advice.
Charlie Cline:You don't have to be a counselor, you don't have to be certified. You want to have the master's degrees, you don't have to have the things, just be the person with the open ears and open mind and give them, whatever they're going through, give them a solid advice. You know, like I mean it's, it's not difficult. I don't think the most difficult part is is is to get a guy like trade to open up and tell me what your issues and what your problems are. That's the hardest part me giving you the advice of hey man everything's gonna be alright we'll get through it, man, it's gonna happen.
Charlie Cline:You know I'll be there for you. But for him to have the confidence of me, not to run to everybody I know and say, man, trace, fuck guys crazy because, because, because is the second he hears that hey man, are you okay? Is everything going on and he's only ever told me then that I broke that confidence and he's gonna shut down and not tell anybody what he what he's going through.
Tim Artibee:Or another thing is hey Trays a dude with the six guys blowing seven. He's a dude with the two dicks in his mouth we all know that's Tim but does that make sense?
Charlie Cline:it's done in that person gonna shut down and they're not gonna express and then they're gonna be the guy they might you read the paper they killed himself or whatever.
Joe Gates:Talk to somebody else. Yeah, so if you know something happens, I'll say he's a new job in new state and now you're kind of gone from that picture. Well, if he finds someone new that he gets close to, like that with well, this happened last time he's not gonna open up that new person oh right, oh yeah, you're exactly right, like if I moved to Wyoming.
Tim Artibee:Yeah, and let's say, let's say and and I'm just throwing this out there because you're- still one of the one of the dudes that that I can always rely on is is Charlie. Even though he's a Marine, I can always rely on him. I walked into the the lunch today, walked in the lunch first thing he said. He looked at me and said what's on your mind? You okay, and I lied to him like a motherfucker.
Charlie Cline:I like to him, like a mother fucker.
Tim Artibee:He trusted me that much and he knows, he knows I lied to him like a motherfucker, because we talk all the time and you know what he did he gonna order, you know. I know I had some stuff at home. Okay, cool, let's drink beer. And then we just started talking about shit. Okay, he didn't push me, because if he would, I would have told him. But he already knew. He already knew. He already knew that I was I was not having, I was having a bad hair day on something I've been working on for a while.
Charlie Cline:I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna wait for you to spill your guts. Yeah, not gonna push you. There's, there's, there's people, and then I know I need to push because, I might now know them as well as you, so I have to push them right and I'm gonna pound them. I'm gonna pound them especially the lady guy especially the
Tim Artibee:lady guy you tell me Marines.
Charlie Cline:I know, you enough that I can tell by how much you talk to me or don't talk to me, or the expression on your face or anything else, because you and I have lunch two, three, four times a week. We have beers couple times a week. We do you know we talk on the phone. I can tell sometimes just by the tone of your voice how your day is going. Like literally, I said I'm I've been work, I'm not doing lunch today. You're like are you busy? I'm like no, what's up? You want to call?
Tim Artibee:you say, no, I'm gonna stop by, you go, you go. Well, the re. Yeah, I'm busy because I'm not having lunch.
Charlie Cline:Yeah he's like, oh, okay, I'm like why you want to call? He's like, oh, I was gonna stop by. I'm like, come on up to the office. Yes, he shows up, we start talking for a minute. I'm like I finished up part of the bit I was doing. We talked. I'm like, okay, let's go to lunch because I know that's what he needed, right, so I dropped what I was doing. I'll crank on it 5 am tomorrow because that's what I'm in the office, and but I know that what he had to talk about, or what he needed, was more important than what I was doing but I didn't really talk about anything.
Charlie Cline:Well, but you needed me, I always need you because I need all my brothers.
Tim Artibee:I need all my brothers, but let's, let's go let's go to the county tomorrow quit licking the fucking, let's go to the county tomorrow, get your guys's marriage license you wouldn't have come up here when I said I'm not doing lunch if you didn't need something, wasn't? Going on. Yeah, I had some stuff.
Charlie Cline:So the fact that you said I'm not I said I'm not doing lunch, I got stuff to do. I was gonna stop up and see you that means that you've got something even though I didn't say anything.
Tim Artibee:I mean, but I get it tomorrow. Tomorrow we'll probably do lunch again and I'll probably show him. I probably show him what, what this show tricks what the program was, because he's right, sometimes it just I get you. Sometimes it's just nice to be in the company of somebody that's not gonna judge you, not gonna fucking I'm not here judge you. You can just sit there and you guys and you guys can both play on your phone and then say, hey, what are you like about the lions?
Charlie Cline:yep, the pistons suck this year, right, I don't know about it a donkey showing tea water yes, yes, so that's that's where the mad judgment comes from, because you wouldn't have stopped up here if you thought I was gonna look at you sideways or anything else. Yeah, and you brought it up. So that's why we're talking about it. But I know, when somebody needs something, I'm there, man. That's that's what the brotherhood, the sisterhood, all of it's supposed to be about. That's right when, when someone needs something, you should try to be there. If you could be there. I'm fortunate up here at work where my brother will cover my slack yeah, he tried to lock me out, but but,
Charlie Cline:I'm so answered my phone. I'm still taking my work stuff you still doing your stuff. I'm just doing half capacity, right, but we're supposed to be there for each other, so anybody out there listening doesn't matter if they're a VFW or American Legion and vets or just a veteran that you know in your community be there for them, be the ear, be the body that sits with them, and if you're each on your own phone and you're just watching the movie, doesn't matter, just having somebody with you.
Brent Holbrook:You don't have to be a counselor, you don't have to be a superhero, just keep just be, the guy that's there, so that you're not one of the 22 listen they're not alone just need to be there and listen, that's it.
Charlie Cline:I get it. So I want to talk about a couple things that we got coming up the VFW because we're yeah, we're running late, so we're gonna just a couple hours in, but we got some important things coming up. The Department of Michigan we got the VOD, which is the voice of the Microsoft. We got Patriot Penn coming up here in a week. We got we got our big mid-winter conference here. Department of Michigan coming up down to Kalamazoo yeah, and the jeweler and the.
Tim Artibee:If you know, if you know the, if you know that this the gig be with my name is the jeweler for the writers group. Let's not talk about how you got we're not gonna talk about how you, if you know, you know. But as the jeweler, yeah, yeah, baby, yeah, yeah, right now I'm so excited about this man so so, for those that it may be just tuning in, we have the holy shit, that wasn't me that time, so two episodes ago, yeah ten went one go right at the end.
Charlie Cline:Just we have the. We have the voice democracy, which is high school age students. They submit essays, they have to read them, they get voted on the post-level, the district level, which would be a regional more or less in the state. And then they have us. We have a state competition where we have winners. They earn scholarship money for colleges yep and and if you win the state level, department level you move on to national yep and they can earn up to $30,000 yep and then we have a Patriot span, which would be, for the younger kids, more or less like fourth grade through sixth grade seventh grade, something like eighth grade something
Charlie Cline:not high school kids, and they do the same thing right, so they earn money moving forward, scholarship stuff or whatever. This year, once again, we're down in Kalamazoo, the Radisson hotel, which is awesome. Love that hotel, mm-hmm it's. It's a great weekend. My wife and I, lady Jen and I love to go down to this. It's black tie affair, you know. It's beautiful dresses and nice suits and the kids come in with their guardians, our parents. It's a big dinner. They take the kids, all the kids, out, regardless of their their voice of democracy, their Patriots pens. They go out for the day they do all sorts of shit and it's, it's.
Charlie Cline:It's a free weekend for all so what ends up happening is at the post-level they get. You have winners first, second, thirds. They all earn money, whatever. They move up to the district level, which would be the regional in Michigan, and once again, they're judged on their essays and the way that they read their essays and presentation.
Charlie Cline:Yes, yep, they got to be able to read their essay if the district level people when they move on to the department, which would be the state of Michigan, the whole state, and we have how many, how many districts in Michigan?
Tim Artibee:14 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 12, so we have 12 12 and I don't know why they didn't start from district 1 to district 12, but you know that's way back to the day, way back in the day.
Charlie Cline:So we have. We have 12 districts. So all those winners for both programs. So 24 students, patriot pen and VOD yep, they all get to come down with their parents or guardians, put up in the hotel for free yep dinners, free yep.
Charlie Cline:They take the students out or the kids out and they do all sorts of different museums, they do all kinds of stuff throughout the day and then they come to this dinner. They'll get their separate tables and then they go from 12 to basically first place and they all earn money throughout the whole thing yeah, everybody, everybody walks away with something yeah, and it's such a great program and when I first became a post member I was at large with the national VFW and then they became a poster to 33 when you first became active.
Charlie Cline:Yeah, so I really became active with poster in 308. I transferred from national over to over to the post level. I went to it last year and we have Colin Laney at the post level was the VOD Patriot and representative for the post membership, and then we have an auxiliary membership, which is a fantastic job.
Tim Artibee:And now she's the department, she's the department girl, she does outstanding.
Charlie Cline:Yeah, I had never been to it. My wife and I went to a last year first time. I love going to conferences because we get to meet people, shake the hands, kiss the babies, do the things you love me. I do, I love, I can't wait to bring kids.
Charlie Cline:They're gonna be spoiled as a motherfucker, as minor we went, we went, we went down to this program and out of the three, we have conference fall, like convention, which we elect, your leadership, the VFW. We have fall conference. We have this field, the Patriots, been mid-winter conference they call it. If I were to ever go to just one it would be the mid-winter. It is absolutely the best time ever period. It's a major point, I suppose, boy. That's why it's point. It is so cool to see the ceremony for the dinner where the district commanders and the district presidents for their auxiliary walk the students in. They see them at the table. I mean it's literally a black tie affair. It is unreal. And to see the appreciation these kids have that actually support military members veterans their spouses, their children, all that stuff.
Charlie Cline:And to hear their patriotism out of a senior in high school to a sixth grader right kids that just love America, and to hear their speeches and all their different things is amazing, amazing in. I stood up at the post meeting we had the February meeting we had last January and wife and I are going this year again.
Charlie Cline:I stood up and I looked at Colin and I said, man, I've been here like four years and I thought this was a bunch of BS. It was just another box of check and I told the membership if you haven't been there, you need to go Hooker. You're missing out this. If you're gonna go to one of those three conferences at the Department of Michigan, this is the one that you need to go to.
Brent Holbrook:Midwinter.
Introduction:I mean, I was blown away.
Charlie Cline:How far out do you have to sign off for it? What's your question?
Joe Gates:Say how far out do you have to sign off for it?
Tim Artibee:Basically in fall, in fall, what happens at fall conference? They'll get ready for midwinter. Fall conference is the end of September, okay, and then it's usually two weeks. They have a housing for the district commanders and all the officers of the post so they can get people, and then it's a free-for-all. So let's say October, second week of October. You got from the second week of October until the last week of January.
Charlie Cline:It was like last week, yeah, it was like last week, yeah.
Tim Artibee:So you got a little bit of time, but it's gotta be put out as a post commander level. It's gotta be put out, and I don't know if a lot of them do it, but like Charlie's what do you do? I do all the time because Constantly talking about it.
Tim Artibee:Because, I'm the district commander and I'll tell you what I'm so proud. Okay, I'm clapping for the students, not for me. I'm so proud to walk them, young people, down, because I have the VOD people on my arm, man or woman, doesn't matter who it is. And then the auxiliary president, district president, has the patriot pen. So it's district commander, student, student, auxiliary president, district auxiliary president. And we walk in with these little I was gonna say critters, students, these students. We walk in with these students and they take a picture and we set them free and then we go over and then we got like a score sheet. It's not a score sheet.
Introduction:It's a program.
Tim Artibee:It's a program kind of thing that tells you who gets this this, this, this, this this, and it starts at like 300 and then it goes to like 5,000 or whatever it is, and you check it off and every time your Person is not called.
Charlie Cline:Person is not called, you're like woo. So what they'll do is they'll start with the. We have 12 districts. They'll start with the 12th place. Person gets $300.
Joe Gates:And they'll say it's from district you know 19.
Charlie Cline:Whatever, whatever, so that means we're district 11. So that means our person at least moved up a level. So as it goes up in your person's, your student is still in. It Means they're making more money.
Joe Gates:Yeah.
Charlie Cline:Right, so their scholarship money goes up. So you're like our person's still in it, you know like, you're like-.
Tim Artibee:Yeah you're all like You're like crazy yeah.
Charlie Cline:And you know when your person gets called up. We all stand up at our tables and we're cheering and going crazy for them.
Tim Artibee:Well, last year district 11 was third, third, yeah, I think she was third yeah.
Charlie Cline:Third I think three years ago Come from Ross Common.
Tim Artibee:Ross Common.
Introduction:Ross Common wanted two years in a row.
Tim Artibee:Yeah, and then I think four years ago, the girl from our post won it and Luella and Denise and the auxiliary were like that shit crazy so they lost their fucking mind.
Charlie Cline:So what's so fun about this? The VOD bidger pen the winners from the department. The winners will go to national, so then they're competing against students from all across the country. Yeah right, so you're talking, they win five grand here they could win up to 15,000 or 25,000 at national for scholarships for college.
Tim Artibee:I think it's 30 or whatever it is, and they get to go to the turn, the White House. Oh yeah, they get to do all kinds of things.
Charlie Cline:But what I love about these things and I don't care if you go to convention in May or April, april and then you go to fall in September or you go to midwinter in January- that we have hospitality rules that department puts on or districts might put on or something.
Charlie Cline:I think there's been some changes over the years, but it's a great way to network. So if you're gonna be an up and coming person in the VFW, that's gonna even mean you have to be even at your post, but maybe five years from now, 10 years from now, you might strive for district level, you might strive for department level. You come there and you get to meet people from all over the place and shake hands and form friendships.
Charlie Cline:So we've Lady Jen and I Jen and I have been going down for three years to various different things and we have friends that we meet every year only at these conferences, right, and I might be saying there tends to be a lot of people from our post will go. We kind of hold up kind of in the corner. But I'm social butterfly, so I'm walking around right and I'm like, hey, man, how's it going, you know Jim, hey, Tom, great to see you, you know. And hey, how's Jane and the kids? And you know, you just get to meet a lot of cool people. So it's one, it's good exposure for you. But two, I always like to bounce the questions off, right.
Charlie Cline:So a guy from Detroit hey, what are you guys doing to raise money for your post? Or what do you guys have going on? Because something in Detroit might work in Mount Pleasant it might not. And I might talk to some guy from the UP. You know what's working at your post. Hey, we have darts or we do bingo, or we do this or we do that.
Charlie Cline:So it's good feedback to what we might be able to try at our post that we might think could work. And we're talking post and Claire, they never had darts. Now they do, they're in their killing it, but they never probably would have thought about it. They're 20 miles north If they didn't come down and see how ours works and then try it and actually give it a real shot to try it. And it's growing and growing, and growing and growing, and now that's successful for their post. So for me, a lot of it is thinking outside the box, like what are you guys doing that's working and what are you guys doing that's not working? Because maybe what's not working down there might work for us, or what's working for them might work for us, or maybe doesn't, but it's a good feel for the way things are. You know what I mean.
Tim Artibee:So, and I how many people are we sending Right now? Terry Coontz, myself, charlie, terry and Sencio, I think, colenlaini. But then again you have to sign up, like in October you got to sign up for a room because it fills up quick.
Charlie Cline:They can't, they can't, but you have to remember that's the rooms at the Radisson. There's other hotels. There's other hotels. You can get an.
Tim Artibee:Airbnb. But now Denise just got a hold of me.
Charlie Cline:We actually did that years ago we actually stayed down the road and we just drove in every day. So Denise got a hold of me and said are these the tickets?
Tim Artibee:Because you got to order your banquet tickets ahead of time. She's like are these the banquet tickets that we need? And I'm looking at him like, yep, pretty close, but something I'm gonna throw at Joe, the geeky guy. The webmaster that hooked us up tonight did a great job, but he's not really very bright, but that's beside the point. So there's a department webmaster. His name is John Goobin and he's not gonna be the department webmaster for fuck and ever. So I think I'm gonna hit you up with his number and then maybe you can get ahold of him and say hey, dude.
Joe Gates:I think you and I talked already and I was trying to get the username and password stuff for the number. Oh, you, probably did.
Tim Artibee:Yep, yep, and because that would be something that you could do. That would be something that you could do and be involved, because I think it's important for you to be involved, because you got a busy mind.
Charlie Cline:Well, it would just be nice if there was a way to sign up on mine. For what Tickets or anything else.
Charlie Cline:Well there is a way to do it.
Tim Artibee:But what we do here at our post, like for our post, we bought any post member that's gone. We bought their ticket. Auxiliary did the same thing Right, so we did that. So that then all that is is we just pay the girl that bought the tickets. But there is, there is the website and Joe's really good at the website. He's really good. I looked at it. I got to come up with a commander's theme. When you look at the officers, there's that little blurb that says blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
Charlie Cline:Yep, okay, I want to make it mine.
Tim Artibee:And I want to do the same thing for the riders group. I want to make it Charlie's, and next year I'm going to make it Trace. Make it theirs what their vision is, what they see, because I don't want to generate bullshit in there. Yeah Right.
Charlie Cline:Mine's going to be Same thing with the pictures I told you jump on our riders group yeah.
Tim Artibee:The Facebook page Pull pictures yeah, because when you go to the VFW riders I don't want to see anything other than riders group pictures. Now on the post level gallery we can put all the other the horseshoes and the darts and all that other bullshit, but for the riders group I want riders group pictures and that way people when they look at it it's all riders group.
Charlie Cline:So-. That picture from the Beals yeah or.
Tim Artibee:Christmas right now yeah, that was awesome, that was awesome or Halloween or whatever.
Charlie Cline:We all got together and did pictures.
Brent Holbrook:Yeah for sure. Jumping back to conferences for a minute, Do we just have the two of them the fall conference and the mid-winter.
Tim Artibee:We have convention, which is where we elect the leaders For the department, For the department. Then we have fall conference, which is the end of September. Then we have mid-winter, that's the end of January, and then fall conferences or convention is usually the first week of or April. No, convention's first week of June Right around there. Okay so, but it's good to go. So you Wait a minute.
Charlie Cline:Wait a minute. Yep Convention is in April, when we elect leadership.
Tim Artibee:No, that's our post-election. Our actual convention for leadership is June.
Charlie Cline:The department Yep, okay, I'm not gonna doubt you at this point, but yeah, maybe you're right, yeah. Because you can't be instilled at the leadership of the post until after no, I can install you.
Tim Artibee:I can install you, but it doesn't take effect Until Until after the new commander gets installed.
Charlie Cline:Yep, yep, you're right. That gives you like six or eight weeks. Yeah, yep, yep.
Tim Artibee:And here's another thing that we haven't done. It's so weird. Did you take your oath of law obligation, joe? No, I've heard it, bretton. Did you? No, I was instilled. No, I didn't say that. Did you take the oath of obligation when you first got Court?
Charlie Cline:of Master.
Tim Artibee:No. When he first got approved to be a member of the post, no. Did you stand up and say this is my oath of obligation? No, you did not. I never did either. You didn't either. I didn't either. Trade didn't either. Okay, so that's something going forward that I'm gonna instill.
Charlie Cline:So it's crazy. It's the fact that trade and I had the conversation a long time ago about when we do patching in new members of the rise group and then we've now expanded that into road captains, secretaries, side of the arms Do the pictures?
Charlie Cline:Right right.
Charlie Cline:Never, ever ever have we done that up until five months ago.
Charlie Cline:We started doing that.
Charlie Cline:Yeah, and I think that's important.
Charlie Cline:Well, yeah, I was gonna say that it is important. I think it's way important.
Tim Artibee:Yes, I think it's fucking way important. I think it's outstanding that you guys did that, rather than just say here, here.
Charlie Cline:Well, that's the way I used to do it a year ago.
Tim Artibee:Yeah.
Charlie Cline:Like new guy would join, just throw patches with the sheet.
Tim Artibee:But now the motherfucker comes up and stands in front of the group and says, hey, they get recognized.
Charlie Cline:Not only they get recognized. Yeah, with the correct numbers. They took correct numbers, yeah.
Charlie Cline:We're gonna put that on Facebook too. Yeah, yeah, gonna go on social media.
Charlie Cline:But you should be able to interrupt guys, but I gotta head home, okay, well, yeah, we're gonna be wrapping up here a minute.
Charlie Cline:This is bad time.
Charlie Cline:All right, man, All right man, you have a good night Be safe.
Brent Holbrook:All right, brother, be safe. Yeah, we'll catch you up. We'll see you tomorrow when we pick that up.
Charlie Cline:Yeah, we're all good. All right, it'll be here. Cool, give me a buzz.
Charlie Cline:Yeah, so I'm gonna have to go the way of brightening here, so it's good.
Joe Gates:Well, you're pussy. Yeah, the wife's about to fall asleep on me.
Charlie Cline:I'm popping the door, so okay.
Tim Artibee:Well, you see that's, that's never mind, I'm not going to. Once again.
Charlie Cline:You know this podcast was up at AJ Skylown.
Tim Artibee:AJ Skylown. Thank you very much for doing this podcast. That's why we do it up here. That's right. I appreciate, tabetha, for your input, because mental health is a big thing for us. Mental health is big you know, and then we got the webmaster that didn't spill a beer or anything tonight, yay. And then we have, like Trey Little Lake, the typewriter was a little late.
Charlie Cline:I was like 10 minutes late, whatever Late is late.
Tim Artibee:If you're not 15 minutes early, you're late bitch, Thank you Listen, I was like I, and then we had the Marine and, and you know what, I don't know how to shut this off and the Marine, I think, wanted him to take a leak. So so, Joe, fix it.
Joe Gates:I'm like I'm about to get this.
Tim Artibee:I'm about to get this, but this is why we got Joe. This is why we got Joe here. You gotta play the outro.
Tim Artibee:But, everybody, thank you for listening. We appreciate you and come back again, because we at Soup, sandwich and VFW, post 3033, welcome you and we appreciate your listening and I'm hoping that some way we can, we can hook it up to where you guys can put comments on our thing, on what you would like to hear. Absolutely, but we're working on that. We'll put Joe, the webmaster, on it and we'll figure it out. But so, for that being said, good night everybody, have a good night and let's drink beer and howl at the moon.
Introduction:Thank you for joining us at Soup Sandwich, a podcast that explores the complex and compelling world of veterans in the United States. Through interviews with veterans themselves, military experts and advocates, we'll dive deep into the issues that matter most to this community, from mental health and employment to the history of the US military, the future of military service and everything in between. Whether you're a veteran yourself, a spouse or family member of a veteran, or simply interested in learning more about this community, this podcast is for you. So come with us on a journey into the heart of the veteran experience and discover the stories, struggles and triumphs that have shaped our nation's brave after they've returned home.