S2: Ep 8: "We Were All Shocked, You Didn't Know How to Tell Me..." - with Kerry Kayes

When life throws you a curveball, sometimes all you have is your strength and resilience to see you through. Welcome, genealogy enthusiasts, to another episode of "Unearth the Past." 

Today, we have the privilege of delving into the life of Kerry Kayes – a former bodybuilding champion, award-winning business owner, accomplished strength and conditioning coach, and renowned nutritionist. This is the story of a man whose life embodies the sheer power of the human spirit, from his early days grappling with undiagnosed dyslexia to his ascent as a British champion bodybuilder and founder of CMP Professional. Kerry's candidness about his personal battles and the losses that have shaped him will move you as much as it did me.

As if his life journey weren't compelling enough, Kerry's family tree brings secrets and surprises from Toronto to the Isle of Man. We discuss the emotional discovery of his half-sisters and how the nomadic past of his ancestors has left a legacy of wanderlust in him. Join us for an episode that is not just about the intricacies of family history but also about Kerry's tenacious spirit, inspiring you to look at your challenges with a renewed sense of hope and courage. It's a story of loss, love, and legacy that will stay with you long after you've listened.

To watch the podcast on YouTube, click here.

To contact Michala, you can do so via her website, www.michalahulme.com
A huge thank you to this week's sponsor, Witney Antiques

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

This week's podcast is sponsored by Whitney Antiques, an antique shop in the heart of Oxfordshire specialising in historic needlework. If you'd like to know more about Whitney Antiques, check out their website at wwwwitneyantiquescom. Hello and welcome back to another the Past, a family history and genealogy podcast presented by me, dr McKayleigh Hume. So joining me today is Kerry Kayes. If I start to list all of this man's achievements, let me tell you, folks, there will be no time for the rest of this podcast.

Speaker 1: 0:48

In a career spanning decades, kerry Kayes has reached the very pinnacle of every industry he's ever been involved with. In his younger days, he was a British champion bodybuilder, which led him to opening the world famous better bodies gym in Manchester. Kerry then used all of his sporting expertise and experience to found the hugely successful Sports Nutrition Company CMP Professional, a brand that is now recognised all across the world on every sporting platform, from boxing to cycling to football you name it. In between all this, he has also managed to offer his knowledge and support as a world-class strength and conditioning coach, along with being a nutritional expert, to some of the world's best boxes, from world champions such as Ricky Hatton to Tony Belew. Kerry was the go-to guy for athletes at the very peak of their sports. And if that wasn't enough, I know as if there could be more. As if that wasn't enough, he now takes a more hands-on approach as a much in-demand cup man for an array of superstar professional fighters.

Speaker 1: 2:01

Kerry regularly delivers lectures on sports nutrition to audiences from many industries and backgrounds. He has lectured and advised around the world, from yacht racing teams to Premier League football teams. Even Ronny O'Sullivan and the SAFs have benefited from his guidance. So today it is with enormous pleasure that I welcome Kerry Kays onto my podcast. Thank you very much, kerry.

Speaker 2: 2:29

That's a nice lead-in. Thank you, Was that a good intro? It was a very good intro, but embarrassed, to be honest. You don't mean the cat. I don't Well, thank you very much.

Speaker 1: 2:40

So not many people may know this, or they may, but about what would you say? About 10 years ago I looked into your family tree. Yes, you did, do you remember?

Speaker 2: 2:50

Yes, you did. I remember asking you to do it. It was in Better Bodies Gymnasium where we had a little cafe, that was right. We were sat down I don't know we'd been training Gav or Brian Rose or whoever and we just sat down and had a cup of tea and I asked you to do it.

Speaker 1: 3:09

Before we go into the family tree. How did you get involved, then, in that world of nutrition and fitness? How did that start for you?

Speaker 2: 3:19

Well, I was born in 1950 and I went to a Roman Catholic school, st Francis. My mother was a devout Roman Catholic and you might not know this and other people might not know this, but Catholic schools did not get the same funding as Church of England schools in those days. They really didn't, and that reflected, I guess, in the education and a lot of the emphasis on education was religion. It really was, and my school, st Francis, was the monastery as well. It was tied onto the church. So and in those days you left school depending on how old you was. In the month of the year you could leave school at 14.

Speaker 2: 4:09

In them days, and there was in the old years there was one A, b and C, two A, b and C, three A, b and C and four A, b and C, and the other ones went to the A class and I was in one C, two C, three C and they didn't even bother with me. In four C I ended up helping the caretaker do all the work. So now I now know, I now know that I suffer. Well, I don't suffer because it doesn't bother me I've got terrible dyslexia. It's terrible dyslexia. I can't even read road signs. So in them days, dyslexia as a label, it didn't exist. You were a dunce, so I was a dunce, so I in them days, again, you left school and it was more labor intensive. There was building sites, you know. There was more work and you either, if you was in the A class, you went to work in an office. If you was in the B class, you had a choice. If you were in the C class, you worked on a building site. That was the end of it. That was just the end of it.

Speaker 2: 5:25

And I remember going, and in Denton, where I was, I was in Orton Green, but at Crown Point, denton, they had a youth employment office and that youth employment office you could just walk in. And this, is honest to God, I can remember it like it was yesterday. I walked in, I know I left school at 14, living in a council house, and she said, I said I said I left school. I said what would you like to be? And I went, you know I don't know. So I said I think I'd like to be a motor mechanic. That's how easy it was. I feel sorry for the kids today. And she said you don't want to be a motor mechanic. She said you'd be under a boot, under a car, greasy, working in the same place for the rest of your life. She said why don't you be electrician? And I went, yeah go on then.

Speaker 2: 6:14

And she went, there's a company down there, old fair brothers that have asked me to get them under pre-existing electrician. And she sent me down and I had an interview. I'll tell you these names Tommy Skolls, god rest his soul. And he said to me in the interview, don't forget, I can't read or write, so I've got no qualifications. And he said to me, if you always wanted to be electrician, I'm like no, I wanted to be a mechanic. You know that's how stupid it was. And he went oh well, he said it is your lucky day and he just gave me a job and I became an electrician, just like that.

Speaker 2: 6:43

And then, you know, I worked on building sites all over the country and that was the start of my career, if you like. So then, to get into the fitness world, I worked in Piccadilly, piccadilly Gardens and it was 7th Avenue Fashions and it was a new clothes shop from a gentleman from Liverpool and we were doing all the lights and there was two electricians. I was 14, stroke 15 maybe, and my job was to clean up 10 o'clock go and get butties, 12 o'clock go up the chip shop. You know, just a laborer really. But I was an apprentice electrician and there was a kid called Brian Harrison and Ted Fowler, and they were bodybuilders.

Speaker 1: 7:30

Right.

Speaker 2: 7:31

And you gotta remember there was no. There was only BBC One and ITV. There was no internet, there was no magazines. And there was these two bodybuilders. To be honest, I've probably looked at them today. They probably wouldn't impress me.

Speaker 1: 7:47

Right.

Speaker 2: 7:48

But at 14, stroke 15,. We'd never seen them. I couldn't believe it. They were like supermen and obviously I was asking questions and I was getting the food at 10 o'clock, 12 o'clock, three o'clock, and they trained at a gymnasium in Leavensum called Sunfis. And they won't come along with us. So I started going to the gym with them at 14. And that's how I started my career in the fitness industry. That's how it went.

Speaker 1: 8:14

Were your parents or were they into fitness? Kerry? Was this completely new? Did it just start with you? Nobody was into fitness.

Speaker 2: 8:21

Nobody was into fitness.

Speaker 1: 8:22

So were they rare and did them too bloat there was two gyms in Manchester. There was the.

Speaker 2: 8:27

YMCA, which I'm sure you know of the wrestling, and there was this little shop called Sunfis and it was above a cake shop and to my knowledge that was the two gyms in Manchester. So nobody was into fitness, Nobody.

Speaker 1: 8:48

Now being into fitness, especially at the level you were. It takes dedication. What sacrifice? You know you can't be having the same foods that maybe inmates are having because you know you're competing or whatever. So all those characteristics that you need, like perseverance, dedication, sacrifice, were they already? Were those traits? I know, like you said, you suffered with dyslexia, but were those traits already in you then, kerry, like to keep it going for the and to achieve what you achieved in that.

Speaker 2: 9:20

That's a real good question and you've actually made me do a bit of soul searching because you're right, you've got to be dedicated, disciplined, and most athletes love a routine. Most athletes love a routine and they talk about when they retire, they go to part, they go to pieces.

Speaker 2: 9:37

Because they've lost the routine. It's as simple as that. And if they can keep a routine up in retirement, they'll do a lot better. But looking back on it now, I remember as a kid, on a building site, I wanted I probably wanted to please, you know, and do a really good job. I wanted to get, if they ask for a certain thing, I wanted to make sure I got it. I wanted to make sure.

Speaker 2: 10:01

And I remember once as an apprentice electrician and don't forget, it's a labor intensive in those days, I remember and everyone smoked in them days, didn't they? Everyone smoked. And he was an electrician I can't remember his name and he was screwing stuff on the wall and because he was up a ladder, I had a box of screws and I had to do that with a screw. So he reached out, picked the screw up, screwed it and then he put his hand down. I had to do it again and I was daydreaming, so I just put my hand on the step ladder, I was looking at it and he just stubbed his finger out on my hand.

Speaker 2: 10:36

In other words, wake up. You wouldn't get away with that now, would you? You wouldn't get away with that, but I remember. So it was like that they'll got taught me a lesson. So I wanted to please. I wanted to do things. I wanted to. I'll pick the ladder up, I'll carry it, I'll go up there, I'll go up there. So, yeah, I think I had a good discipline and a good, a good worth work ethic, and I think if you've got a good work ethic, you'll be a good worker on a building site, but you'll also be a good worker in a gymnasium, won't you?

Speaker 1: 11:08

So in terms of the fitness, then in the bodybuilding, obviously you do very well in that. You become I think is it British champion. You become a bodybuilding. How did that then transition to maybe seeing a gap in the market or seeing an opportunity for supplements that would aid the athlete?

Speaker 2: 11:26

My bodybuilding days. I went to the gym at 14, 15 with Ted Fowler, brian Harrison, met good friends, alf Werman, Frank Ogden good good people. I still see him now. But I slipped off the discipline of training when I ended up. In those days men like my dad were very strong, hard men and corporal punishment was just absolute normal. You know, a backhander was normal non-stop and it was expected. You know what I mean.

Speaker 2: 12:07

And I ended up falling out with my dad when I was 16, 17, 18, I was homeless. So I went, I got a train down to Newquay in Cornwall and ended up washing dishes in hotels and I did that for about six years and there was no gymnasiums at all in Newquay. There was not a single gymnasium in Newquay. So the training side of me ended up on the wayside because it just wasn't a gymnasium. It was not a gymnasium. I used to do a bit of running on the beach and stuff like that, so the discipline of that just went out the window. So I came, I met a lady in Newquay, sue, who I married. Now you're looking at me funny because you think my wife's called Jan.

Speaker 2: 13:02

I know, jan, it's a tragic story, to be honest it's a tragic story because I'm the most happily married man on the planet, as you know.

Speaker 2: 13:11

But Sue got killed by a drunken driver. Wow, me first wife. We'd only been married nine months. We'd only been married nine months. So, sue, we was washing dishes in Newquay, living together, and Sue said my mum's not happy that I'm living with a man. And I said she says because we're not married. So I said, well, let's get married then.

Speaker 2: 13:32

So we went up to Manchester and got married. Sue's mum the dad was there. My mum the dad was there, because I'd made up with my dad but we couldn't live under the same roof that's the best way to put it. And we bought a house in Cheedle and I went back to the building site routine as electrician. I'm a tradesman by now. So, even though I was working in Newquay washing dishes in them days, all you had to be was an apprentice for five years and you got your Sparks card. So I told them I fiddled it, ever being honest with you. So I. So we got married. And then one day we were going to a party, a friend of mine, an old woman's house, and we never made the party.

Speaker 2: 14:16

An Iranian man had been in the country four days. He admitted in court that he drank a bottle of whiskey before he left the house and he was driving an American car and he was driving. He was at Lane West and I was on a left hand bend on the correct side of the road in a Morris minor and the police estimated he hit me at 60 miles an hour head on. So and it killed Sue outright and we we had the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the had to cut me out the car and all sorts of terrible things and I really badly, it damaged my back. I really badly, badly damaged my back, which I've had to live with ever since. I've had three major surgeries over the years and so I had a lot of damage with me back, so that then I struggled with training then but in them days when Sue was alive for that nine months, I ended up doing karate as opposed to bodybuilding.

Speaker 1: 15:22

Right.

Speaker 2: 15:22

Okay, and when Sue died, I kept me disciplined in karate.

Speaker 1: 15:28

So was that hard? Was that difficult, Obviously after losing your wife, to keep that discipline? Or was it a kind of it's, it's.

Speaker 2: 15:35

It's very, very strange and and I've been, I've done podcasts where Jan, my wife, has been sat there and I'm talking about Sue, but Jan doesn't mind at all, for obvious reasons. And of course it's hard, it's still hard. But you know and I know, I'm the most happily married man on the planet to Jan, and yet I had to lose a wife to get that, which is a strange scenario, isn't it? You know what I mean. And Sue, jan being Jan, yeah, because you know Jan, inside out, she's the most beautiful woman on the planet. When me and Jan got together and we had our first baby, debbie, within four days, we drove to Sue's mum's house and shoulder the baby filling up. So so it's always been. We've all stuck together in. You know what I mean. So, so that was it.

Speaker 2: 16:34

But I was doing karate in them days. I'd moved from lifting weights to karate and I ended up getting the black belt at Shotokan karate. But I also knew that I couldn't carry on because, as you know, because you've been around fighters all your life in karate, it's the twist of the hips, it's the kicking and all that, and I just couldn't do it with Milo back. Milo back was killing me, and if you've got a black belt around your waist you can't say to the sensor I can't do that it hurts. You know what I mean. So I had to stop doing karate and then I went back to the weightlifting gym, because in the weightlifting gym there are certain exercises that you should do, but you can get away with not doing them if you know what you're doing, because you can do exercise that they don't aggravate you back. So in many ways my bodybuilding career was secondary to my karate career.

Speaker 1: 17:34

Did you enjoy competing either in karate or in weightlifting?

Speaker 2: 17:42

You know, yes, I enjoyed the end product. I enjoy the journey just as much as getting there. So if you're lifting weights or you're doing karate and you've got an end goal of competing, it makes the journey a lot easier, doesn't it? If you go in any you know I work closer with boxes If you go in any boxing gym and a boxer's got a date, you'll see that they trade a lot harder than if they haven't got a date. So the journey's a lot easier if you've got a date to compete.

Speaker 1: 18:16

Now should we delve into your family tree.

Speaker 2: 18:20

Yeah, kerry laughs.

Speaker 1: 18:24

Stanley, your dad was born in 1916. The reason that I was able to trace him and, by the way, on this tree folks, if you tune in every week we did not use DNA right, so this was before DNA was a thing. I know a lot of people now take ancestry DNA tests. I talk about DNA all the time and how we trace people. We didn't use it, we just relied on paper records. But the good thing was with your dad even though his name was Stanley, he had a rather unusual middle name, which was Kitchener Kitchener.

Speaker 2: 18:59

And apparently that was named after Lord Kitchener.

Speaker 1: 19:03

I was going to ask that where did that come?

Speaker 2: 19:04

from Apparently.

Speaker 1: 19:05

Right, ok, so he was born in 1916 in Canada. So that was the first shocker for me, because I was like Canada. What was he doing in Canada? Now, when I looked into his life and I've got his birth certificate I brought it with me and I don't think I showed you this, but I've got a picture of where they lived. Do you want to see it? Yes, please, let's have a look. So this is Rodan Place in Canada and this is where your grandparents lived when your dad was born. How did it look like?

Speaker 2: 19:39

Garten.

Speaker 1: 19:39

Yeah, how would you describe it, kerry?

Speaker 2: 19:44

Rotary stouses like Garten.

Speaker 1: 19:46

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 19:47

Rotary stouses like Garten.

Speaker 1: 19:50

For our American listeners. If you guys listen, or, sorry, if you guys watch Coronation Street, it looks like the back of Coronation Street, doesn't it? A row of terraces with the yard at the back and you've got some washing line up. If you're watching it on YouTube, I'll put this picture on YouTube. So when he was born, they lived in Rodan Place in Canada.

Speaker 2: 20:14

Sorry to be aware. Where was Rodan Place?

Speaker 1: 20:16

He was actually born in the county of York, which is in Toronto Toronto, so he was born in Toronto. Then the next record that I found your dad on was coming back over to the UK and that's his ownership and he's coming back over with his mom. They come into Liverpool in 1919, but they don't stay in Liverpool, they go onto the Isle of man. Do you remember that? Did you know you had an Isle of man connection?

Speaker 2: 20:44

No no.

Speaker 1: 20:46

When your dad is coming back over to this country and he's with his mom and his siblings, your granddad isn't there and your granddad, joseph, isn't on that record and that's because he's in the Canadian Army and I'm presuming at that point in time I know it's 1919, he's probably still. First World War. Yeah, first World War. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 21:11

Was the Canadians involved in the First World War?

Speaker 1: 21:13

So he was part of the Canadian Overseas Expedition Reforce.

Speaker 2: 21:18

Right. Well, so they lost in something.

Speaker 1: 21:21

Your dad comes back into this country and I found the family on the 1920, 1921 census and they are living in the Isle of man. But your dad's mum, rose, is missing and that's because she passed away. And how old was your dad then? Four.

Speaker 2: 21:40

Wow Four.

Speaker 1: 21:43

Now I don't know why, but then your dad and his dad, your granddad, moved to Manchester and I don't know why they moved to Manchester. I don't know whether they ever said but at the beginning of the 1920s they moved to Manchester. Does that seem to fit with what you knew?

Speaker 2: 21:57

I knew nothing On my children's life. Maybe they did, by the way sorry, maybe they did and I've forgotten, but I doubt it. There was no talk in my household, my mum and dad's household, of the past. There never was. I'm guessing one of the reasons I found out when you dropped the bombshell, but I don't ever remember any talk of the past on my dad's side. I remember my mum's side because the school holidays we used to go back to Go-away, which everyone did, and stay at my grandma's house. You know what I mean, and it was. You couldn't fit in.

Speaker 2: 22:42

You couldn't fit in.

Speaker 1: 22:43

Yeah, yeah. So I know that in the 1920s, for whatever reason, your dad and your granddad and the siblings moved to Manchester. I know that because in 1927, your granddad passes away and his occupation at the time is a motor car mechanic Really Something that I think you wanted to be at one point, god, and guess what he died of.

Speaker 2: 23:08

God.

Speaker 1: 23:08

A bad back.

Speaker 2: 23:10

Stop it.

Speaker 1: 23:12

Wow. So he died of an injury to the spine that he received during the war.

Speaker 2: 23:19

My God.

Speaker 1: 23:20

I can see some parallels. I'm sure you're not, he is a motor mechanic. He's also getting an army pension from Canada and at the time of his death they're living on Greengate, which is in Salford. What threw me when I looked at his death certificate of your granddad was that there was an Alice case and then, when I did a bit of digging, that was his second wife. So after his first wife died, he then went on and married an Alice case in Manchester.

Speaker 2: 23:51

Right.

Speaker 1: 23:52

So your dad in theory had like a stepmom.

Speaker 2: 23:54

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 23:56

Which made sense to me, because by the time your dad's 11, he's lost his mom and his dad.

Speaker 2: 24:03

Wow.

Speaker 1: 24:04

And I couldn't figure out who else in Manchester he was living with you know, because at 11, who were you gonna live with? So I'm presuming that the kid stayed with the stepmom, which was Alice, obviously. Then I wanted to know a bit more about your dad. When he got to you know, past his teenage years and in 1939, I found your dad, just before World War II, and he's living on Clarion Street and he's working as a railway porter, but he's not married to your mom at this point, and this is kind of what threw me, because we didn't know this, did we? We had no idea that he'd been married before and, more importantly, kerry, you had no idea that you had two half sisters.

Speaker 2: 24:56

None.

Speaker 1: 24:57

What was that like when I told you that?

Speaker 2: 25:00

Well, I think we were all shot. You didn't know how to tell me, did you? You were, you were. You didn't know how to. But for your viewers I don't know whether you, but some of your viewers my mum, bridey, was a devout Roman Catholic. In the Catholic phase, you've got to go to church every Sunday. My mum went every day. Now, in the Roman Catholic faith, you cannot get married if you've been divorced. So clearly my dad knew that and didn't tell me mum. So that's why none of us knew. So it must have been a very, very dark secret. So none of us knew. My sister didn't know. Thank God, my mum never found out. Thank God, my mum never found out. God rest her soul. Because he wouldn't have been allowed to. My mum would not have married him.

Speaker 1: 26:00

No, and you wouldn't have been here.

Speaker 2: 26:03

Never thought of me that way, that God is a good liar. Oh God, so your?

Speaker 1: 26:13

dad was obviously married and had these two half sisters yours Then my mission was to try and find out, wasn't it, what happens to these two half sisters. It became pretty clear when I was doing the research that these half sisters were not in Manchester. So I was like it's pretty clear when I was doing the research that these half sisters were not in Manchester, and what I did? I found that their mother is first wife, a lady called Mary Ann Hamilton had remarried, and after she remarried they all moved to Canada.

Speaker 2: 26:49

Again, we've got this Canadian connection, so my sisters were born in England.

Speaker 1: 26:55

So they were born in England but then moved to Canada and they didn't even come down to do you remember them?

Speaker 2: 27:01

Yeah, they remember you were traveling down in Canada, but I didn't know the timeline.

Speaker 1: 27:05

Did it make you think any different of your dad when you found out he'd had this life before your mum?

Speaker 2: 27:13

No, honestly, God, it didn't, because unfortunately, my dad was the distant past. My dad died a long, long time ago. I hate to say we were never that close, but I don't believe families were as close as they are today. It was hard times, hard times. You know, my mum was a beautiful, beautiful, beautiful human being and my dad was just a real hard case and I remember and I shouldn't say this because it sounds like I'm disrespected him, but I'm not, I promise you, I'm not because it was normal. I can remember my dad taking his belts off to beat us and I can't see what possible I'd done wrong. I can't see how I could take my belt off to my son and I can't think what it could possibly do wrong to warrant that. Does that make sense? So, but it was normal.

Speaker 2: 28:14

It was normal. So when you came out with those revelations, I couldn't get it out then it was just well, that's me dad. You know, what I mean. That's me dad. You know what I mean.

Speaker 1: 28:29

Do you think losing his mum and dad at such a young age to lose them both by the time you're 11, do you think that affected maybe the way he was then with you, because maybe you know?

Speaker 2: 28:40

I don't know, I don't really reflected the way he was with me, but the reality is it must have been horrific for him because I can't see there being the support system there is today. Do you understand what I mean? So it must have been almost all of the twist days, wasn't it? If you think about it, it must have been horrific. You know, I always it's only to be rude. I always, I always.

Speaker 2: 29:03

I always remember me dad thinking I was a softy. And you know some very strong men and I think strong men can be very strong and can be very sensitive. They live into emotions, don't they? And I'm very sensitive. I two, three times a week I'll cry, I really do. I'm a very sensitive person and me dad has all men in them days misunderstood that. For you, for you being softy, you know what I mean and you know a lot of strong men are very sensitive. You know what I mean. So I think me dad always. Yeah, I've got to say I think my dad was always disappointed with me. That's the impression my memory gets. That's the impression my memory gets.

Speaker 1: 29:47

I think if he was here now looking at your life, I don't think he'd be disappointed in you.

Speaker 2: 29:52

No, and if there was a time machine, I'd love to show me mum and dad what I've achieved, but I'd love to show the teachers at school what I achieved.

Speaker 1: 30:02

Yeah, your granddad Joseph, your dad's dad, if we just stay with that a minute, he was born in Boston, in Massachusetts, wow.

Speaker 2: 30:12

In 1891. Ricky's first ever fight.

Speaker 1: 30:17

Yeah, ricky Hatton, yeah.

Speaker 2: 30:19

Collapsal.

Speaker 1: 30:19

Were you there then for that one, karen, I was in the corner, were you? I was in the corner Now. During your granddad's lifetime he would live in Boston, London, Glasgow, Barrow, Incombria, the Isle of man and Salford.

Speaker 2: 30:35

Was there a traveler in him? Was there a gypsy in him? Do you think?

Speaker 1: 30:38

I have no idea, but he moved around a lot and when I looked at his military record to what you know for what he did for a job, especially when he lived in Canada, it looks like that he was like a truck driver. When I say trucks I mean that, very loosely speaking, the definition today's trucks. Back then it would have been like carts, you know like horse and cart.

Speaker 2: 31:03

Larissa the Colby yeah, course and cart. Well, either that or he was a villain and he kept having to go on the move.

Speaker 1: 31:08

Well, I wasn't quite sure whether he was on the run.

Speaker 2: 31:11

That's what I mean.

Speaker 1: 31:12

I thought this makes an interesting story. I mean I couldn't find that he was on the run, but let me tell you he moved around a lot. Now his parents his dad John was a blacksmith from Northern Ireland and his mum was also from Northern Ireland. She was from Antrim In 1891. When I find your granddad Joseph, he's living with his parents just off the main high street in the Isle of man. So there's definitely this sort of Isle of man connection in your side of the tree. Now, in 1903, your granddad Joseph marries Rosanna Gibbs in London, and the Gibbs side of your tree are all from London, and it's in 1911 that your grandparents leave the UK for Canada to basically start a new life. I've got a picture of where your great grandparents lived in London if you want to see it.

Speaker 2: 32:11

So this is Collingwood Street, which is where they lived God it's the same thing again it terraced houses, except the street was narrower because there was no vehicles.

Speaker 1: 32:20

Now you're looking at them houses I can tell you that your family actually lived. Some of these were three stories, and they just lived on a floor in one of those houses. So there'd been a family in the basement a family. She walked through the door and then a family on the first floor. He was a shoemaker, and if we go back a step further, so that's your great granddad's shoemaker. If we go back even further on that side, he was a provision dealer.

Speaker 1: 32:48

What I always found interesting, though, about your tree is how much they moved and how you're not really from one place yeah, there's the Isle of man in there, but, as I mentioned, you know, your tree stretches far and wide on both sides. We end up back in Ireland, and I know you've spoken about Ireland and the connection you've got with Ireland. Were you surprised, kerry, when we started looking into it, how many different places your family lived, because I'm sat next to you and I know there's probably nowhere or there's very few places that you have not travelled with with your different professions over the years?

Speaker 2: 33:27

Well, yeah, I watched a film. You know I was talking to Jan about I don't know something and I've got some very, very old friends, go back to 13 and 14 in fact. One of them just phoned me up on the way and they've never left where they're from and I went to New Key I've been all over the show and I watched a film the other day and they were talking. They were somebody, was philosophizing in the film and they said there's basically two types of people those that stay around the campfire and those that wander off.

Speaker 2: 34:05

You know they'll remain and I said to Jan, you know you think about that and I mentioned three or four, five, six mates. I said they've stayed around the campfire on the love and we wandered off and I guess my family was the type who wandered away from the campfire.

Speaker 1: 34:20

Kerry, thank you so much for coming on my podcast today. Honestly, I've thoroughly enjoyed it. I know the hour is nearly up, but I could literally I wish I'd have booked two hours, because you tell some of the best stories I've ever heard in my life. Your family tree was honestly brilliant. And to find your two half sisters, who I know that at the time we did reach out to you, didn't we?

Speaker 2: 34:44

we did make contact we reached out to one of their daughters, I think.

Speaker 1: 34:48

I know one of your sisters was unfortunately in a home once at the time and then I think we spoke to the daughter of the other sister. But we did that without DNA, it was just just paper records. If you can't afford a DNA test, I was just going to say you know, and the paper records are there, you can do this kind of research.

Speaker 2: 35:05

I didn't think it would have been healthy to go and visit them, though I never did.

Speaker 1: 35:09

I was going to say did you ever feel that? Having a relationship with it?

Speaker 2: 35:11

No, no, the reason being when you told me I was probably. Well, I'm 74 in April, so I would have been 65, which means they would have been at least 75, and I think I found out about them because it was a past. But it would have been strange for me to walk into their lives. I don't think it was worth it. Plus, I probably would have ended up paying the bill for the phone, for the phone homes.

Speaker 1: 35:37

I was going to say, yeah, paying for the nursing homes. Kerry Kayes, thank you so much, it's been a pleasure, thank you.

Speaker 2: 35:43

Thanks for having me.

Speaker 1: 35:45

So that is it, then, for this week's podcast. A huge thank you to the legend that is Kerry Kayes for coming on and speaking to me about his family tree and, in particular, talking about finding his two half sisters. Thank you so much, as always, for listening. You know I couldn't make this podcast without you I literally couldn't. And a huge thank you to this week's sponsor as well, the lovely Whitney Antiques. Thank you so much for sponsoring this episode of the podcast.

Speaker 1: 36:16

So, as I always say every week, have a really good week researching folks. Keep your comments coming in, keep sending me messages. I must apologize because I've not actually got through last week's messages, but I'm going to try and do it over the next couple of days. So if you've reached out to me, I will get back to you, I promise. Don't forget, I do put these podcasts on YouTube. It's normally a few days after the podcast has been released, so keep checking out my YouTube channel, which is just on earth, the past podcast. So I hope you enjoyed this episode and I shall see you again next week. Take care.