HISHAM DAHUD (Rizik) - From "Shadow Artist" To Playing Coachella In Just A Few Short Years

Join The Cult Creatives "Build A Brand Workshop" - June 27-30 in Los Angeles
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Hisham Dahud is a music producer and multi-instrumentalist who's artist project Rizik explores a wide variety of genres and adamantly refuses to be put in a box.

After supporting artists for years through his digital marketing agency, teaching Music Business at ICON Collective and running a coaching program of his own, he decided he was sick of watching from the sidelines and started to pursue the artist path himself.

His Rizik project quickly racked up millions of streams on Spotify for his neoclassical piano compositions and he was also recently invited to play drums for Saint Levant in front of tens of thousands of people at Coachella this year.

Follow Hisham/Risik here:
https://www.instagram.com/rizikmusic
https://www.instagram.com/hishamdahud

Follow Nik Cherwink here:
https://www.instagram.com/nikcherwink

And visit my site to join the mailing list or book a free coaching call:
https://www.nikcherwink.com

Transcript

Hisham Dahud (RIZIK): 0:00

I believe it's okay to disappear for a while, to get off social media, to not be influenced by everyone who's doing everything better than you and just dive deep on your compositions and then bank, just bank, create a body of work, a catalog, if you will, of songs that you can feel that, you know what? I took those as far as they could go, man. And then of course, create all the supplemental stuff, the videos, the promotional stuff, have those in the bank. So when it does come time to pull the trigger, you can start releasing because everything was already made in advance. But you have that eight to ten track with videos. If you were just to use the two week, release strategy, that's sixteen weeks. Of stuff that's just rolling you're just rolling and then you get to disappear again and make music again

Nik: 0:53

What's up, everybody. Welcome to the Headliner Mindset Podcast. Before we dive into today's episode, I want to share about a really awesome event and opportunity that's coming up. You know, if you have been a listener of the podcast, you definitely hear us talk about branding. You hear us talk about how it's important to figure out. Who you are and how to portray yourself, how to create something that is going to cut through the noise when everyone else is out there scrambling for attention. You get to come through and do something really unique and different. And that's through your brand. That's what people are going to be following you for beyond just the music, right? But you really got to take the time to figure that out and to build something cool. And you've also probably heard me talk about. An incredible branding and marketing agency that I've been involved with for a long time. That's exactly what we do. We build cool shit for cool artists. And we are having a very cool event, June 27th through the 30th. In Los Angeles. This is our second annual build a brand workshop, three full days of panels and exercises, workshops, working with the actual cult creatives team to figure out your brand, to build your brand every day. We have a guest speaker this year, which is super exciting. We have Henry Fong, Flostradamus and Valentino Khan coming through to talk to you guys and hang out. And on the fourth day is our photo shoot day. You guys are all walking away with. High level photo shoots with really amazing photographers that we use for all of our biggest clients. if you guys want to come through, if you need help getting your brand figured out, this is the place to do it. Send me a dm. I'd love to talk to you about it You can also go to our website at the cult creatives dot com slash workshop to get more info there. I'll put that link in the show notes, but I hope to see you there. now, as far as today's guests, this is a really, really exciting one. He is an old friend and colleague of mine. We used to teach music business at icon collective together. So he's an incredibly smart music business professional. He's run a digital marketing agency for a long time, working with a lot of top artists, but I'm having him on today. Because he got sick of just working with artists and decided that he wanted to get back into making music himself. And I'm so inspired by him, I'm so inspired by his journey. This was a few years ago that he made that pivot, started making music, got back into playing all the instruments that he grew up playing, producing, and just recently played one of the biggest music festivals in the world. This is

Hisham Dahud (RIZIK): 3:21

what up Nick?

Nik: 3:23

What up brother? Welcome. Welcome. Welcome. This is Such an exciting episode, and I hope everybody's as pumped as I am, because I'm sitting with somebody very special right now. Somebody who used to teach music business with me at Icon Collective. Someone who Knows so much about not only the business side of things, but also so much about the artist side of things. Cause you've been diving deep back into that side of it. And I'm very, very excited to, uh, to hear about how that journey has been going. Um, but I'm going to be honest, we are jumping into this episode. Full raw dog. Freestyle. I have no questions prepared. This is just me catching up with one of my fucking brothers right now. And, uh, it's gonna be a really fun episode, so I'm happy to have you here, dude. I'm so excited to catch up with you, because it's been way too long.

Hisham Dahud (RIZIK): 4:17

It has been way too long and, you know, like our, our paths did cross in like that academic, you know, environment to help artists and whatnot, but like we've always kind of been on our own paths. And like Icon was its own incubator of sorts, you know, I mean, like allow me to take this time, Nick, uh, just to say like how proud I am of you and seeing how you took that stab. I remember you told me like, dude, like I'm leaving Icon. I got some things on my mind, things I want to work out. And I saw you get, you know, from certain your certification to your own education, to your community building in LA and in Austin. And you've kind of built something around your own personal philosophies that people seem to really resonate with. And, uh, whatever you do, it's working. So I just want to say congratulations for that.

Nik: 4:57

Thanks, man. Thanks, dude. And, you know, it's It's really interesting beyond my end. You know, we have so much in common. Um, one you're a skateboarder. We both come from a background in skateboarding. We both come from a background in also playing drums as like our, our main core instrument, right. And I definitely have found. My purpose and my calling in terms of, you know, coaching, right? I'm so called to do this life coaching thing to do this artist coaching thing. You know, I used to have dreams of being like a motivational speaker like Tony Robbins, but I found my little way to do that. and at the same time, deep down, like I also still am an artist, you know, I still pick up the guitar. I still know how to play the drums, right? It's it's all still in there. And it also is something I still wrestle with to a certain extent where I'm like, Oh, like, Should I start making music again? Like there is this part of me that I'm like, okay, at some point I feel like I do need to sit down and actually create. And this is what I love about you and what I respect about you so much is, you know, you were really working in the business, working in the industry, also working in that education space. But you said, Hey, you know what? I'm sick of being on the sidelines and helping all of the artists and I'm ready to get back in the arena and be an artist again myself. And so I just, I love that. I respect that. And I, and I really want us to start the conversation there of like, what was pulling you to get back into being an artist and what really inspired you to, to, to go for it again? Cause I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna spoil the, uh, the rest of it, but you've done some fucking cool stuff since then.

Hisham Dahud (RIZIK): 6:35

yeah yeah well before I dive into that, like, the notion of like I feel like an artist inside therefore I want to make music, I mean this does relate to your question but like, I just I don't think anymore about like The, the artist identity is inherently tied to like the creative act necessarily. Like the way I would argue, the way you've lived your life, Nick is very much one of an artist having gone through continuous progressions, evolutions, seeing the world a certain way, creating things that reflect that certain way. I mean, I feel like just the instrumentation, I see you, you know, you posted videos of you playing guitar where you're shredding. I'm like, well, of course, like he's a musician, obviously. Like, but that's, I would argue that just one arm of your artistry.

Nik: 7:15

yeah, yeah. I mean, the podcast has been such a good example of that, where it's like, it is just creative energy. Where are you pointing your creative energy? Right? I've, I've poured my creative energy into, you know, one now really creating a business for myself, but like pouring my creative energy and my love into my clients, into helping other people. But the, the podcast has been a very tangible, Piece of art that, you know, 56, 57 episodes later, it's like, Hey, we've, we've created a really cool thing here. So I, I definitely, I think everybody is an artist, you know, I think life is the canvas. Life is your greatest masterpiece of art that you are creating. And are you creating it consciously and with passion and energy and love, or are you creating it? Unconsciously out of like fear, right? And I think both of us are, we're intentionally creating our lives, right? And so I, I totally resonate with that. It's just, yeah. What's, what's the form. I know for me though, I got some fucking metal riffs that need to be recorded and some shit that needs to come out. So that's, it's coming. It's coming sooner than

Hisham Dahud (RIZIK): 8:16

Well, side note, send me those riffs, dude, because I'm always hungry for riffs. I mean, I have a second studio with a drum set with 11 microphones on it.

Nik: 8:22

Let's go here.

Hisham Dahud (RIZIK): 8:24

means, send me

Nik: 8:24

This is actually the vision that's been coming up where, and I think this is also good for artists to really think about. I've been having a bigger conversation about, you know, being a producer, especially like, I think there's a difference between being a bedroom producer. And having sort of a bedroom producer mindset, which is like, I have to do everything by myself because I have this laptop that I can make all the sounds and everyone's trying to do it by themselves. But the reality is, you know, what I would call more like the headliner mindset. When you look at some of these guys that are guys and girls that are the biggest artists in the world. They're more like managing teams of people that are helping them make stuff. You know, I have a, I have a vocal producer, I have a, maybe a finisher that's finishing the tracks, a mixing and mastering engineer. I got like seven people that are helping me make the songs. And so I've been toying with that idea a lot of. Of really it being more about collaboration. I'm like, you know, I don't want to sit there and like engineer and really learn Ableton, but I'm down to write riffs all day. Right. So I've been thinking about that. I'm like, Hey, what would actually be really fulfilling for me. And I'll throw this out there. If anyone needs guitar riffs, hit me up and I'll just, I'll just write guitar riffs for people all day and just send them over. You guys can engineer them. I don't really have a desire to do

Hisham Dahud (RIZIK): 9:34

Yeah, dude. Well, again, we're all driven by different things. So, to kind of go back to your question of what drove me, to kind of go back to making the music more of a focal point, I mean, if anyone, you know, listening out there, I'm Like doesn't quite know the trajectory it had. I grew up playing instruments. I mean, I'm sure you talk a lot about this by the way in your, in your coaching. Cause I know you and I have wrapped about this of like So, much of what I do is part of healing the wounded child within me. And to that, I mean, growing up in, in the States coming from, you know, a Palestinian background and whatnot, like I was picked on a lot and like music was the only thing that people couldn't take away from me. So, I, I was able to identify through deep reflection and journaling, like, why music is so paramount besides the feel goodness of it. It's because it was the first thing that really gave me a sense of worth in my identity. And, to kind of take that to another scale, I've always had this, like, I'll show them attitude, which I know is completely ego driven, I know it's not sustainable, but it's still here at 36 years old, dude, I'm not gonna lie, I still have that.

Nik: 10:32

and it's so common, bro. Like almost every fucking artist I coach, once we start peeling away the layers a little bit, it's like, what's that driving force? There's a lot of that there. Like, I'll, I'll show my parents or I'll show the bullies. I'll show the world, right? It's there.

Hisham Dahud (RIZIK): 10:45

cliche, but it's, but it is there, but something else has kind of driven, driven me now because I, I kind of looked at the, what I did in the, on the marketing side. So again, like I was always in bands, always playing music. And then I kind of fell into the marketing space by managing my space pages for artists in San Francisco, which led to the formation of a digital marketing agency. And I think I kind of used what could be described as a shadow career. If anyone doesn't really know what that term means, it's this notion of like, You're adjacent to the thing you want. You're kind of close to the thing you want, but for whatever reason, from fear, a lack of willpower, like a discipline, whatever it might be, you're content. I shouldn't say cool. You're content with just, you know, being on the periphery. So literally being close to the thing, a friend of mine told me something that really stuck with me. Sometimes you gotta be really close to the thing to realize just how far you are from it. So from me going on tour with all these artists, frankly, getting some of the status that would satisfy the whole, I'll show them thing. At a certain point that did satisfy me a little bit, but I started to realize that like, there was two things. One, that's not what I initially set out to do. That's not what I wanted to show people, frankly, at all. And the more I started working with the creative types, the more I began to just more resonate deeply with, with what drove them. Therefore realizing I've kind of abandoned that a little bit and also a true belief in oneself of like, actually, I do have the aptitude to get. proficient and speak fluently creatively. Now, I also learned recently as a difference between the believing in yourself and believing yourself, you know, I've always kind of had that, like, I know I can do it. I'm starting to make things that I really like, but why aren't things happening? And that would kind of propel one to be like, well, do you even believe me? Like, is, why is anything really happening in this space? But until again, like music is just any kind of creative pursuits is so weird because it's not linear. And it, there's no barometers. There's no like, now you're this title, and now you have this salary, like a progressive, you know, uh, progression. But like, at my lowest point, did I receive the call to get one of my highest career accolades, which was to play at Coachella. And it was the day I got that call, I swear to you, dude, I was at my lowest when I was like, I'm posting these videos of me drumming, no one seems to care. No one seems to like, they love when I post the piano stuff, they love when I post other stuff. When it comes to the drumming, my first love, if you will, no one seems to care. So should I abandon this thing? Like, I love playing it, but it's not resonating with people. That was the day. I got the call like, hey, I just recommend you do it for Coachella. So, I

Nik: 13:13

Interesting. Interesting. Tell me more about what was going on at that lowest point you were starting. Sounds like you were starting to doubt yourself, even putting stuff out. Like what was that? What I call the saboteur, the inner gremlin, the little doubting voice inside of our brain that tells us, you know, we're too old. Nobody cares. There's like, what was that narrative that was going on in that moment?

Hisham Dahud (RIZIK): 13:36

have to really dive deep on that, but the first thing that comes to mind, which is something that is still feeling the way I'm making music today, is I'm not special enough. It's not that I'm not good enough, or I'm not proficient enough, what I'm doing is not unique enough. And that's kind of, I think, Nick, like the residual, like the residue left over from my marketing brain. Of like, how, how can I package this thing, you know? And I've thankfully got to a point now where I've pushed through that a little bit. As opposed to saying, like, how do I get more unique? It's just like, how do I almost entertain myself? It's, it's a similar question, actually, right? Cause like, like right now, actually, I, I just put this little glockenspiel on my acoustic piano over here, and I'm experimenting with some different effects on it, and my right hand, what would normally be my right hand on some of these piano compositions, I'm literally holding like the mallet in my mouth and swapping between the mallet in my right hand while adding different effects And I'm just like I'm entertained by this I'm amused by this because I've never really heard done like this before and I'm sure maybe someone else out there has because of social Media everything is exposed and it's easy to compare yourself, but I'm like I never did it like this I've never done it like this, and I've been doing it long enough now where I know, like, I used to have this foolish mentality of just like, this is it, whether, and I'm sure a lot of people listening to this can relate to this, I'm like, uh, this song is gonna be it, uh, this is the track that's gonna get me out there, or this way of making music, uh, this is it. Not realizing that they're all just little milestones that lead to the 5th thing beyond that. And you can't look at it as any kind of final arrival. Just more like, Oh! I broke some new ground. Great. It's nice to know that the hole continues to go just a little bit deeper.

Nik: 15:16

yeah, yeah, and I think we're also really touching on the driving force underneath it, which when it's coming from ego, right, then it's about. How is this going to make me special? Like you said, kind of my marketing brain is like, all right, well, how is this going to be, make me special, make me unique, because then I'll have more success. I'll get more attention. I'll get more followers, right? Like that's like really where it's coming from. How am I back to that piece of like, I'm going to prove that I am worthy enough or important enough or just different or unique. It's very different than when you're coming from what's fun. What feels good, you know, like that's why I love playing riffs It's like there's a feeling that when I get when I figure out that right riff i'm like Like my guiding force is what's fun to play? Right. It's like this just feels hella fun to play this fucking brings me joy, right? And uh easy easier said than done for me. I'm not putting shit out. I'm not trying to build a career So it's like it's very personal Pure in that sense and, uh, not that it's one or the other. I think it's good to, we still have to have our marketing brain, right? You know, I, I talk a lot about duality where it's like, yeah, you're an artist, but you're also a business owner, but when it comes to being in the creative process, it's good to leave that business owner mentality behind, leave the marketing behind, leave the fucking ego behind, like find that little pocket where it's like, Ooh, yeah, this is hella fun. And Follow that trail of crumbs, and it'll probably lead you somewhere pretty cool.

Hisham Dahud (RIZIK): 16:42

Yeah, and more importantly, like, what's really helped me lately is like, I'm an instrumental producer for the most part. Lately I've been collaborating with singers. so like, rather than finding my voice through literally my voice and the lyrical content, you know, I have to pull from other things. So, what's been interesting for me lately is that I've noticed that when you pull in so many aspects Of your life and frankly, sometimes you just need more life to live dude Like if you're relatively young 16 17 18 You're gonna be pulling from your influences and the people you listen to but that's just you're just pulling from sonic stuff from audio and at 36 having gone through all the shit I've gone through, dude, from having worked with film composers for the last like 12 years. Well, no shit. My music tends to be more cinematic. You know, having like pull, having only recently the last three, four years been really tapping back into my middle Eastern roots. Well, of course, like, and now I'm having more of a middle Eastern influence into the stuff. So the more life you live and I feel like the more you process it, And the more you put it back into the music, people will sense that authenticity. And I think that's going to get a lot further than any, like, proficiency. You know, I like drawing parallels from other worlds. Like this morning, I watched a 10 minute YouTube documentary on Jon Favreau and his rise. But it was specifically talking about his very first film, Swingers. If you've not seen that film, it is an amazing movie. It's

Nik: 18:07

Classic. So

Hisham Dahud (RIZIK): 18:08

It's also very low budget. And what I did not know about this film is that he was a struggling, it literally was reflecting just his life. He wrote about himself, all the characters were his friends, and he insisted that his friends play those characters. Like, everything was just mirrored perfectly from his actual life. And you can sense it. I mean, the guy got offers to like, hey, you can be a producer, but we'll take it from here, kid. And he's like, no, I really insist on getting my buddies in this because when we act, we'll know what we're doing. Cause we, we really did these things. Sure. The lighting is fucked up. Sure. There's certain things that just don't look high quality, but you know what? You can sense the charm and you can, and you can sense that like, this feels real. It feels like it's really coming from someone's experience. And if you reduce the music equivalent, it's like, all right, maybe the track isn't mixed perfectly. Maybe some of the instrumentation isn't played perfectly, but what I'm sensing is someone's like. Honest expression, that's the hardest thing to do.

Nik: 19:02

Yeah, 100%. You know, I talk about that a lot with, with my clients is encouraging them to get out of the studio, right? Because there is this sense of, well, one, you got to be in the studio, you got to master your craft, you got to put in your 10, 000 hours, you got to fucking grind. But a lot of people are, they're doing that. But there is a difference. Tipping point. There is a diminishing rate of return where it's like what's actually going to benefit you is to go take a weekend off and go fucking party somewhere. Go on a trip to Joshua Tree. Go take a little fucking road trip. Go, you know, go get your heart broken. Go live your fucking life. Right? So that you actually have something to talk about, not just, you know, you can get really good at clicking buttons, but what the fuck are you saying? Right? What are you actually expressing from your soul? You need to go fill up your soul and you don't really do that in the studio, especially as a producer, just staring at a fucking computer all day. You got to go live your life.

Hisham Dahud (RIZIK): 19:54

if you were to use like just breathing as a very basic elementary analogy, you need to inhale to exhale. If all you're doing is exhaling, you're gonna be out of breath,

Nik: 20:03

Ooh, I love that. That is such a good metaphor, dude. That's so good. the brakes for a second. We just glossed over something really massive, which is that you just played Coachella a couple fucking weeks ago. And so, this is so exciting. Like, this, to me, when I saw that, I was just like, fuck yeah. Cause I, I haven't really talked to you that much since, you know, You know, we both left icon I think right around the same time. I think I yeah, I was like right around the same time. We both left icon. We kind of went our on our separate journeys. We were even coaching together a little bit. You had a coaching platform that you were doing as well. And I've just been kind of from the sidelines seeing you go further into your artist journey. And so, uh, I would love to hear about what that journey has looked like really, like since you left Icon, since you started getting back into making music and then how the fuck did you end up playing Coachella? So like, tell me the story. Like what's gone down for the last, was that like maybe Four years? five years? yeah,

Hisham Dahud (RIZIK): 21:05

I mean, I, I turned, I turned back music on around, Yeah. around that 2019 era. And at the time, again, I was still in what I call the tracing phase of just like, I like certain sounds. I'm just going to emulate them because I'm a musician, but I wasn't really an artist mode, I would say yet. So I was making a lot of neoclassical music because I had discovered that through the Berlin scene that I spent a lot of time in and I just started putting music out under the alias Rizic, which is my, actually my mother's maiden name. But also in Arabic, it loosely translates to the word blessing. And I think like, how perfect is that actually? Like, cause I'm a self taught person and all of this music stuff is just like, I don't know, it's just there. And I've just been able to, I've been given the creative runway to develop it. And it did really well in that I got on a lot of editorial playlists and I think it was like 60 million streams my first year,

Nik: 21:54

How did you get on those playlists? Did you have a pitching strategy that you were implementing behind the scenes? Were you working with a distributor? Like, cause that's a big question everyone wants to figure out,

Hisham Dahud (RIZIK): 22:02

Both. Both. Some of them were from pitching, some were from distributing through a record label. Which, by the way, isn't always the guarantee. Like, it has to, like, be of a certain, I wouldn't say quality, but it has to fit. I happen to be fitting really in with, really in well with these dreamy piano, uh, uh, playlists and whatnot. And, and people, I, I mean, I can see from, like, my ASCAP reports and whatnot, people still, you know, Play a lot of that music even though I stopped releasing and i'll get to in a second why but It was just very functional music nick to be honest with you It wasn't like people some people for sure were like, oh who is this guy? Like they hear the music and they'll click the profile and again my marketing background paid off and that I had all the links ready to go. I had the whole funnel I had the whole ecosystem ready to go and I was building a fan base But dude, like 89 of these people I was just a passive listen to like they didn't really care about me

Nik: 22:49

Well, here's kind of a cool point about that because I, I remember another graduate from, from icon actually, who had his artist project that he was pursuing. And it's like, this is my, you know, house music, like DJing shows, like I'm chasing that path and that dream. But then on the side, he just started making like a lo fi music and had a little side project. He started putting that out and it was getting like millions of plays on it. Cause it was this, this sort of like. Easy listening, put it on Spotify, listen to it while you're studying. And that started generating some royalties as well. You know, you start getting millions of plays. It's like, Hey, that's putting a little bit of money in the bank. So just to plant the seed, you might be pursuing your. Main bread and butter artist path. That's like under this brand, but if you feel inspired and maybe you have some other side shit that you're making, like fucking put it out, see what happens. Right? Like, like you never know when things kind of pop off and just putting it out there. Like there's little, there's streams to be had. There's licensing stuff that can happen that that can just be putting some money in your pocket while you're continuing to pursue your main artist

Hisham Dahud (RIZIK): 23:53

Yeah, and there's therein lies kind of the irony of that like in retrospect I should have maybe put all of that music under a different brand because as I started to branch out because i'm not I don't want to be known as like the piano guy like because i've always dude I mean, this is also like the good and bad thing i'd argue about like my musical tastes and therefore creative pursuits. Is that like? I have such a wide range of tastes and emotions. I like to go to dude I cannot make verse chorus verse chorus bridge chorus music, dude Like I do with other artists because I but I bring what I bring to the those collaborations But my personal music like the last song I did that I just spent the last three and a half weeks on Is like a four and a half minute electronic I don't know Journey to lack a better term. It's the kind of shit that it's almost like how I love like progressive metal You And how it goes from like extreme heaviness and darkness to extreme beauty. And then extreme darkness again. I think I'm like emulating the, the arrangements of those kinds of compositions by also bringing a cinematic, but also like hip hop sample based flair to, I don't fucking know, dude. Like I'm just, I'm just kind of doing my thing at this point, but I want to ensure that I always, you know, I'm providing valuable information for your listeners here. Cause I want to go back to. The idea of like, how did you get all those millions of streams? Well, you know, like that, that distributor that I met, I met through the real world dude. And I met also specifically because around that time, and I was looking to kind of get closer to my, my origins, my, my ethnicity, you know? So I, I had met him because he put on a conference in Palestine, which was helping artists in that area delegates. Little did I know, he also ran our record label. Right? So, over the course of time, after meeting people in real life, by getting more in tune with your specific values, you might meet some people who could be critical allies for you, but it's not so transactional. You know? It's more like, not only do I like you as a person, but like, you and I have like a similar mission in life, and, you know, like, I'm happy to help you and vice versa. so that's why it's so important. to get the hell out of the studio, man, because those relationships that everyone talks about, and some people even complain about, Oh, it's because they know someone, so they know someone. Of course! That's, that's, that's the whole point. Like, we all got, I got into music especially because I just love the people I was hanging out with. You know, I don't have to hang out with Janet and accounting, you know, if I don't want to. Like, that's perks of the job, you know what I mean? So go out there and get those perks.

Nik: 26:12

It's so huge man You know, I've developed a bit of a I guess basic framework really after having all of these conversations on the podcast I'm like, you know what? There's really like these five main pillars to artistic success and for me I put mindset at the beginning Right, just like you gotta have the right mindset But there's music, branding, marketing and networking. I think there's also a sixth really, which is performing if you're going to be actually getting out there. But that networking piece is so huge. I mean, it literally is. A thousand percent why I have a career in this business whatsoever. Uh, I mean, my entire role at icon was just because of, I had a network and I started plugging in a network and I started growing a network and connecting icon with more people and just being that kind of dot connector. also I, that word networking is, I don't know. It's not even really the right word because it really, it's right, it's like, like, networking has a little bit of a connotation of I'm going to go out and meet people that can help me build my career. And it's like, no, go make friends, go build relationships, right? Like people, people, people help me because they fuck with me because we're homies because we're friends. Like, that's why not because like, I have this transactional value. I'm just like, yo, you're, you're You're my homie and I love you and we have a relationship and I want to help you. You know what I mean? And, and whether that's even, whether that's helping you in the business or me driving to your house to help you move your fucking bed up, up the stairs, which I literally just did for someone the other day, it was just like, you know, just being, being friends, man. It's so important and it's, it's different than, you know, I mean, we, we spent enough time in LA. To know how to sniff out people that are just there to get something and they just want that sort of business relationship versus actually being a

Hisham Dahud (RIZIK): 27:51

Yeah, I mean, sadly, networking can have a parasitic connotation to it. But networking done right is no different than making friends. And you already have a great common How are friendships made, right? Even as many complain in their 30s, Oh, it's hard to make friends. But how are friendships made? Like, through common bonds. And, oh, you like making music? Me too! That's a pretty fucking strong one, especially when you've dedicated your life to it. You know what I mean? It's not hard to build from there, but

Nik: 28:16

I like to remind artists, you know, sometimes, you know, a lot of a lot of artists can be very introverted. That's why we gravitate towards kind of maybe being in the studio or whatever. But, I like to encourage artists to, especially if you want to be playing shows, it's like, go to the club, become a part of the club, become a part of the community, like join the club. Right. And the thing is, when you go there, it's like, Everybody loves the same shit as you. Everyone's there for the same reason. We all love this kind of music and this is why we're here. We all love shows. So you, you automatically have like a bond with people, you know, it's, it's actually a lot more welcoming than, than people might think. So don't be scared. Get out there and go say, what's up? Shake some hands, you

Hisham Dahud (RIZIK): 28:53

Yeah, man. I mean, community is, is critical, you know? And I feel like the more niche down you can get with even your community, like, the more powerful those relationships will be. It's one thing, again, like, oh, you make music? I make music. Cool, cool. But it's like, alright, do we make the similar style? Are we of the same, do we have the same cultural background? Is there, is there, what else? Do we both love pro wrestling? Like, some of my greatest contacts in the industry are my closest friends. And, it's funny, I think I rarely, and now I think about it, I rarely, if ever. Like hit them up for any like any like networking thing

Nik: 29:22

I forgot you're a big wrestling guy. I remember you got, you got your, you got your whole crew over there with all the, That's so

Hisham Dahud (RIZIK): 29:28

Oh, man, we we fucking love it But to give another example like, you know, my homie john 12 planet like I didn't even know he made music for a year I didn't know who he was And now he and I are on zoom sessions because i'm trying to work on my sound design specifically for that last track I did and here he is just like giving me so much advice. he's a someone in my network You But it took me, what, what is this now, 11 years later to actually, like, tap into him as a resource in that regard. But it's like, it's not even transactional. He's like, dude, I love this song, I want to help You You know?

Nik: 29:58

I just had a fun experience with someone. I was at a, at a show here in Austin. And, um, well, I walked into the green room. My other friend was playing and I went into the green room. And this guy, this guy's just like, Hey, what's up, man? Like, you want to take a shot? Like, how you doing? What's your name? And I was like, Oh, we just hit it off. And we're talking for like five minutes or whatever. And, um, I had no idea who he was. And then he's like, Oh yeah, he was like the artist that was playing next, you know, and it was just from that conversation. I'm going to have him on the podcast too, because it was such a fun story. But it was like, we were rapping for a bit. I was like, I have no idea who you are. You're just a cool dude. And we just fucking hit it off. And it was just human to human connection and contact. And it wasn't like, Oh my God, you're this artist. And I need to like, I need to be cool with you to like, you know, get you on the podcast or whatever. Uh, you know, just, I don't know. It's, it's nice to meet. Just genuine people that are, uh, that are cool. And there's a lot of them out there And you know, you get out, you, you you get the energy that you put

Hisham Dahud (RIZIK): 30:50

Absolutely. And, I mean, that's a great point, dude. I mean, like, look, I'm not gonna say there's a direct correlation, because that's part of, like, a spiritual conversation, but, like, Throughout my marketing career, like back to the beginning of this conversation of where you put your creative energy. I was putting it into the careers of other artists, right? I was constantly taking my energy source and pumping it into other people for their marketing plans, branding strategies, late nights, travel tours, etc. Helping other artists, uh, that are already established. Then I had my whole educational team. Period right? at icon and artist pro and I was really helping other again Once again, almost like a shadow career part two, right helping other artists once again And is it any surprise that nick to go back to your question here? Like the same person who helped me get his name is abid the same person that got me All that success or helped get some of that success on spotify is the same person that recommend me for coachella

Nik: 31:40

Mmm.

Hisham Dahud (RIZIK): 31:41

once again, recommended me, he saw me, no one may have cared about my social media posts, but he knows I'm a good drummer. He saw me playing drums on, he'd be jammed a couple of times and whatnot. And he recommended me for the artist St. Levant, who ironically, like I had not, I've heard of, didn't really know his music. And the first day of the rehearsal, I said, hello, Medjuan. I said, hello to Medjuan. And the first thing he said to me, he's like, you don't remember me, dude. And I was like, Oh, what, what do you mean? He's I do not. But what do you mean? He's like, dude, two years ago, I've been the same guy. Put us in touch. I was in my dorm in UC Santa Barbara and you gave me so much marketing advice.

Nik: 32:19

Oh,

Hisham Dahud (RIZIK): 32:19

And this was during Artist Bro. And I was like, dude, I was talking to like six artists a day at the time. I don't

Nik: 32:24

yeah, yeah, yeah,

Hisham Dahud (RIZIK): 32:26

but now I'm playing Jumps for you. It clearly ran with it like, let's do this thing. You know what I mean? So like

Nik: 32:31

And you're coming from that place of let me just help people and serve. Like, I always bring it back to like service, you know, it's like, either Leading from our ego and just trying to get stuff for ourselves, which a lot of people are living in and, and there's, you know, there's nothing wrong with that to a certain extent, but if that's all you're living in and you get so much more when you're giving and you're coming from a place of service and like just that, you know, that one conversation, You know, that's, I don't know, and think about like how many of those conversations you've had, you know, like how many of the people that you've helped along the way and it's all, it's, it is all energy. It is all the law of reciprocity. It's this universal karmic law. Like whatever you put is going to come back to

Hisham Dahud (RIZIK): 33:09

Yeah. And you have to let the timelines play out, man. You know what I mean? Like, that was a two

Nik: 33:14

this is years years

Hisham Dahud (RIZIK): 33:16

I I and I, I remember, I remember like at the time,'cause I, I looked at the email, he wasn't even like an artist pro student. It was just like we just talked. Dude, you know, I was like, I mean, dude, I'm down because my homie says like, you're down. I'm down. Let's talk, you know, like no problem. And that's how it manifested. And back to the whole, like, I'll show them, you know, if I could be completely like real and vulnerable, like I needed that Coachella gig. Uh, well also like I almost lost that Coachella gig because at the time that one, I never played with a live drummer. And after they told me to learn all those songs. I brought my arrangements to them in the first two days. The music director, the whole band was like, Dude, you're killing it! This sounds awesome! And then homie showed up to rehearsal, he's like, It sounds really rock. And everyone's like, Uh, it's just live. It's not rock, it's just live. You're not used to live, you know. So basically, in so many words, the music director was like, We have to figure this out today. I'm like, Oh, today? Does that mean if we don't figure it out today? He's like, Yeah. Like, we're going to go, we're going to go all program beats. I'm like, no. Uh, and thank God the front of house guys got Joey, also a drummer. She pulls me aside. He's like, he needs, he doesn't know what he's I'll help you with this. You know, like, help me like retune

Nik: 34:24

What? Yeah, what was the solution to

Hisham Dahud (RIZIK): 34:27

Deaden the shit out of the drums. Go from this big, open, live, frankly, festival sound to this dead, completely dead sound. Rely more on samples on my SPD SX. Have some backing tracks, play either on top of them or replace them in and out as needed. And I had to learn all the songs over again, basically, and I woke up the next morning because then Marwan's going to come back and now hear the new sound. I woke up like, if I lose this, I lose this, like whatever. I really thought this was going to be my, my breakout, my breakthrough moment, not a breakout because I definitely learned there's a difference, but whatever. If I don't get it, this is my best stab. I played the songs. It was lunchtime. They didn't fire me yet. And after I got through, you know, I turned to the guys, I was like, so should I make plans that weekend? Am I invited to the party? And the MD, the manager and everyone were like, dude, we were so sorry to put you through that. Clearly we didn't know what we wanted and you crushed it. Like, thank you for this. And I remember, dude, I wasn't even happy. Nick, I drove home and just utter silence, just like shaking, just thinking like, I want to go. to bed. I just want to go to sleep. Like that was one of the most intense, stressful things I've ever done in my life. Cause The stakes are so high. The stakes are so high. yeah.

Nik: 35:34

what was it like to play Coachella?

Hisham Dahud (RIZIK): 35:36

Well, let me be real. So it's two weekends. The first weekend, we were plagued with technical difficulties up the ass. And it sounds like a lot of people were. We were not alone in this.

Nik: 35:46

Well, and you guys had a big, there were a lot of people on stage. That was a big band. Like, how many people were involved in that band and production? It wasn't, it wasn't a fucking DJ up there just plugging in some CDJs. You guys had a real, a real live show.

Hisham Dahud (RIZIK): 35:59

no, it was nine people, I think up there. And then from there we had like dancers and stuff for like the second half of the arrangement. But the first, I will say this, this is a matter, this is a totally a matter, dude, of like experience and like the whole notion of stay ready. So you don't have to get ready thing. Like by the time I got on that stage, dude, like I remember feeling oddly calm of like, I'm prepared, because I worked my ass off for this shit, And I know what I'm doing. Like, all these parts are memorized.

Nik: 36:29

and, how many people were in the crowd?

Hisham Dahud (RIZIK): 36:30

know, a lot. I never, I never, I never seen that many people before. Put it this way, I've never, I've never heard a roar through my microphones like that. Like that was kind of just actually kind of distracting because we had a lot of technical issues We couldn't hear each other at one point out We were given like the wrong metronome like the wrong click for some at one point I had two metronomes at two different tempos at one of one of the most important parts of the song of the set, too Uh, so the first week I have to I have to be honest I was We were all in survival mode. We were all just like, Oh my God. And you can kind of see it a little bit on all our faces. So sadly, you know, Nick, like I was trying to actually kind of quiet down that crowd and trying to ignore them a little bit because I couldn't physically hear my musicians. I just, I could not, but we got through it. And I watched the live stream there a couple of times. I'm like, that's, that's. An act of God, like how, how, how, how did we stay on time for that part? You know what I mean? But weekend two we were assured that they would have their stuff together and weekend two was by far the most like special one Like that one It was flawless. There was no technical issues and I got to really soak in the crowd man and Seeing just all those people just so stoked but more importantly just that roar. I've never experienced a roar But at the same time, I remember, like, not being scared, intimidated, I think, because, number one, I've done this enough times now where it got me ready for that stage, even though I kind of went from, like, small little clubs to Coachella, but it was just more confidence in my, in what I prepared, and just more confidence, just, you have to have this feeling, man, of just like, I fucking belong here, let's go, next song, please, next song, let's go, you

Nik: 38:08

for sure. And that was, you know, I think first off, man, just celebrating you massively celebrating you for saying yes to the calling for what I call getting back in the arena, pursuing the artist's path, pursuing the artist stream. And of course, of course you're up there on stage at Coachella cause that is where you fucking belong because that's the kind of reward you get when you pursue a courageous lifestyle and you pursue your calling and you give your gifts. So. Wasn't surprised at all to see you up there. I was like fuck. Yeah, let's go and Yeah, man, it's uh, I don't know. It's just really really cool to see so I'm pumped for you,

Hisham Dahud (RIZIK): 38:44

Thank you, dude And there was also, again, I know this is kind of ego driven, but like, someone like me, the wounded child, like, I needed that breakthrough, because so many people, I think, still have this notion of Hesham's the marketing guy, who, oh, he dabbles in music, that's cool. That's cool. And I purposely did not tell anyone about this Coachella thing for a couple of reasons. One, I know how this shit works, man. Like these, anything can happen the last minute. I know. I know how this shit goes. I've been around this shit long enough. So that number one. Number two, my marketing strategy, if you will, was shock and awe, old school shock and awe. Just like, just post the photo, dude. Just post the photo and then of course the comments will come in because there's no, there's no anticipation, there's no hype and at that point you let, you let the audience kind of internalize like, have I been sleeping on this dude the whole

Nik: 39:32

Yeah, yeah. It's the opposite. It's the opposite of what most people are doing, which is like, I'm announcing that I'm going to make an announcement.

Hisham Dahud (RIZIK): 39:39

Yeah.

Nik: 39:40

I'm going to make an announcement very soon. Get ready for the announcement. That's announcing the announcement.

Hisham Dahud (RIZIK): 39:45

The teaser for the teaser

Nik: 39:46

no, bro. Yeah, bro. Like, here you go. Just fucking

Hisham Dahud (RIZIK): 39:49

Yep. So that, I feel like, you know, there was a breakthrough that I feel like I, I really, I personally fucking needed because now at this point, like even I can't, whenever my imposter syndrome kicks in, like now I have a drum head sign from all the bands and I have my, my artist wristband and Coachella that I'm about to like frame on my wall. Not as a matter of showing off, but as a matter of just like, Hey, next time you're doubting yourself. I have that for like, I have a record on my wall here. that I did a remix contest that I won for an artist that I really dig. And the only reason it's here is because it was the grand prize, a signed vinyl. But it's right there because if I'm ever just like, I suck, wait, it can't be that bad. You know what I mean? It's like, Oh, I, I don't know if I'll ever get to a stage like that. Well, that, that over there says, says differently, you know, so that I, I personally need those kinds of things. But the next step I have now I've laid out is there's a breakthrough. And then the next thing I'm working toward now is, is the, is the classic breakout. And that would be either a song, an album, a video, something that people are resonating with, that they're, it's starting to strike the demand because I feel like so many of us are just constantly just putting shit out there that we like to do. That's again, the breadcrumbs like you talked about, but until like you have some kind of breakout moment where people are like, yo, more of that, or just like, we like you now, which by the way, another thing I want to tell people listening to this is like, You know, just to not get so discouraged from like the low views or the lack of engagement on something that you're really excited about. If you're like, I love that piece of music I did or I love that video I just made, but it only gets like a couple of views, not a lot of streams, whatever it might be. It's the classic case of like, people don't give a shit until they do. Until they do! And then once they do, you realize, am I doing anything different? Am I doing anything different? It's just a matter of positioning, and now people just framed me a little differently. I'm still doing my thing. The quality is still the same. So people don't give a shit until they do.

Nik: 41:44

Yeah. Yeah. So you were doing the neoclassical piano kind of stuff before that, that really popped off, but then it sounds like you got just kind of over that kind of bored, didn't wanted to pursue some other creative directions.

Hisham Dahud (RIZIK): 41:58

Yeah, well, I'll tell you, I mean, I started performing as Rizek playing piano, and I remember being very bored. Being very bored. Being like, uh, especially coming from a drumming background where I just love visceral. performance. Like I need more like physicality, I guess. And also the music I like to listen to is not just this kind of stuff. So the challenge, but also clearly, like the very clear calling, Nick was like, how do I create a body of work that allows me to dance within the spectrums of music? That I love to spend time in creatively and musically and that filled me up And I learned like you can't tell your whole story or you can't express yourself fully in one genre This is me. I can't do it in one genre. I can't do it in one song So what i'm working on now and why I stopped releasing music because I just didn't want to continue to pigeonhole myself That's the piano guy. So of course what you do I went to the extreme opposite, right? I started making like more heavier music, but now even before this call i'm playing the piano here And it's just another one of those, like, Hey, don't hide from your past. Don't hide from your natural talent and ability. Dude, you can play piano. Like you don't have to be the piano guy, but I'm currently on now, and again, I encourage people to follow this if they think they need it. I'm working on an album's worth of material. I'm not going to say it's an album because I haven't decided I'm going to release an album per se yet, but I need a runway of eight to 10 songs, maybe 45 to 60 minutes of music. To allow me to create something where I'm able to flow through all the different kinds of emotions I'm into. So the track I just finished now is like 100 BPM, 3 4 time signature into 4 4 time signature, like heavy electronic music. But already I'm like, track number two of this needs to be gentler. And softer and more performance oriented and maybe track number three should incorporate some live drums now And again, all of this is just me digging my hole a little deeper, dude I'm, just like I I need to keep going here. I'm not going to say this is my definitive sound per se There's a few things that i'm like These are definitely my sounds and sound design things synthesizers of i've made and you know patches that are definitely my sound But like in terms of genre and what I'm doing, I don't know where the fuck I'm going, dude. But all I do know is I'm covering some very important ground and I'm trusting the process here that over the course of time I'm going to get very defined at some point and eventually i'm going to be able to be consistent in my inconsistency And that's the one thing that I used to be very insecure about so that's what i'm working on now It's incorporating neoclassic cinematic Electronic maybe some rock elements Uh, some Middle Eastern influence as well. Not too much because I'm more than just that. You know what I mean? So i'm bringing all these things together and seeing where it leads This speaks to more demographic and psychographics. It's like hey I have the patience and time for this kind of range from an artist I do like the the progressive metal bands like that like i've talked about like All the different kinds of artists that I'm truly into that I invest in and that I really follow, I have noticed they do kind of span a wide range of genres and it's kind of hard to pinpoint specifically what they do. And that used to give me so much insecurity as an artist. I used to be like, well, I need to be definable. I need to put me in the box. Please put me in the box. Right? Almost. But now I've entered this new phase of like, If I don't have patience and the room to allow myself to kind of dive into all these different sounds and bring them together in my own way, then the audience won't either. So once I granted myself this, I'm almost like, I'm not going after the people who are going to skip me after six seconds. Cause I don't, I don't go straight to the chorus. That's not my demographic. I'm going, maybe I'm going after like the heads, like the real deep, deep music And if my, if my smaller 600 capacity room. You know, that. I might play in one day life is full of just those people, but it's smaller than what a larger would have of the more casual. I'm cool with that, man. Cause all those people in the room are like, no, we have time and patience for your song. Please keep going, digger. Please keep going wider.

Nik-1: 45:50

that, man. You know, because it's so true. I think a lot of people do feel the pressure to be like, I got to find my sound. I got to make my one lane of, you know, especially with like a lot of the electronic music stuff and, and yeah, okay, cool. There's that works also, right? There's no one right path, right? But what is the right path for you? If you have more on your heart that you want to express, if you have more Influence and more life experience and more emotions to explore. I do think it is your duty as an artist, uh, to explore all of those things. And there is a space for you. You know, I don't, I don't listen to one style of music. I listen to so many different styles of music, right? So it would be cool to have an artist where it's like, Oh, you kind of keep me on my toes a little bit, right? I'm going to follow your journey. It's not like I only listen to. You know what I mean? Like there's, think, I think that's also changing a bit more too. Um, you know, Coachella is a great example. I love Coachella because of the wide variety is like, you can go there and be like, I'm going to rock all these stages. I'm just going to walk around and find new bands and get introduced to new styles, you know? And I think that, um, there's, there's, we're in a cool era of music where I think that is becoming more possible and more acceptable, you

Hisham Dahud (RIZIK): 47:00

somebody, some would argue that we're even in the era of like the death of genre. I'm not fully. On that one. Yeah. But, but my philosophy is also Nick of like, it's, it's the longer path. It's the, it's definitely the longer tail. And while it may, like, not have as, as a, as quick of a rise, because it's kind of, I think it's maybe harder to find your audience this way, because it's, you have to sift through people who will appreciate that, right, and have that kind of, uh, threshold for that. But I would personally argue it's a longer tail, and it might get easier. deeper than maybe the one that. has a quicker rise, but then might be a little shallower because people will go to the next thing. Like, whatever, this guy's giving me wubs. I'll go to this guy who's giving me all the drops. But this person's like, but there's no one quite like You

Nik-1: 47:45

Yeah. Well, I, I even see that with my, you know, my, I guess, following you could call it, but it's like the people that rock with me, like I got people that have been rocking with me for five years, six years, you know, since the beginning, since I started coaching seven years ago, I had someone hit me up. Facebook, I think where he's like, I never talked to this person in my life and he's like, hey dude randomly just messages me It's like yo, he's been I've been I've been watching you for the last 10 years And I just wanted to say I thank you for all the you know Inspiring posts and the words of encouragement all that. She's he's like he's never said anything to me for 10 fucking years You know, so one. Yeah, you never know who really is Following you, like keep showing up, keep putting stuff out, but it's like, I'd rather have, yeah, 500 people that are with me for 10 years than 10, 000 people that are with me for one year, but they just keep cycling out and leaving and aren't actually really following the journey, you

Hisham Dahud (RIZIK): 48:39

Plus like you have, you have a thing for this. Like this is clearly like one of the main things that you clearly noticed it. Right. Cause you, you like really leaned into it. And that's also kind of why, you know, to be honest with you, Nick, like I kind of paused my own artist educational stuff too, because sure. Like I have lots of insights to share going through this process, but I also recognize that this endeavor. does require my full attention and I cannot half ass this. I can't really half ass, you know, artist education kind of stuff either. But like, there's also a part of me that just like, I think I did that. It served its purpose. Also, like I recognize what it was in many ways, which is the shadow career, right? But like, I also know? that education being the beneficiary of such great mentorship and such gracious people, that's never going anywhere. I think that's going to be a part of me forever.

Nik-1: 49:27

it's part of who you are, for sure.

Hisham Dahud (RIZIK): 49:29

But I do know I have to walk away temporarily because I still do marketing for select clients. I still work with Tom Hulkenborg, Junkie XL. Obviously, I've been with him for like 11 years. Certain other people that come through my radar, but I purposely turn down marketing consultations. To focus strictly on this and that's not something I want to really articulate to the people listening to this Is that like it does require that that deep digging on a very very consistent level. It's almost like exercise I know you're really into fitness of like Like the more consistent you are, like the gains, if you will, but it's almost like you need the gains you get at like, say three works of consistent exercise and lifting to just push through a little harder to get to that new one. You can't take like a time period off and be like, all right, I'm just going to get back up to that PR again. Like you do need that consistency and you need those new muscles to be built at constantly.

Nik-1: 50:19

For sure, dude. Well said. Let's talk about this idea of the shadow artist, because I've heard that term from The Artist's Way. Is that where you get that from? The book, The Artist's Way,

Hisham Dahud (RIZIK): 50:31

I mean, I've read it and I've done the whole exercise of it. I even have the second one, the sequel she did. I haven't completed that one yet. But I've heard The shadow career notion somewhere else. By The Way, you cannot make this shit up, Nick. The first artist I ever worked with that got my marketing career, the shadow career, that got it launched was DJ Shadow. Who was a huge inspiration of mine, but like look, I remember I'll never forget I was actually at Icon during an office hours when that revelation hit me. I'm like, oh you can't write this shit

Nik-1: 51:02

you know, before the call, I was telling you about how, when I moved to Austin, I was actually going more into men's men's coaching and really getting into this men's workspace. And this idea, it was because, you know, I was really wrestling with this idea of the shadow artists. And I think I am still to a certain extent. I think it's still there, you know, but for me, you You know, I started my career working at Capitol Records and managed DJs, worked at icon collective, started coaching. And then I had this moment where I was coaching artists. I'd kind of like the first time I kind of owned that as being like my niche. And as I started walking further down that path, I started to feel a lot of imposter syndrome. I started to feel a lot of being out of integrity because I was like, who am I to coach these artists when I had that dream of being an artist when I was a teenager and I didn't follow that, you know, all of these people are following that. And so I still had that sort of inner artist inside of me that was chirping at me being like, yeah, bro, you're, you're a fucking phony, you know, like you're not qualified to, to, to, to teach these people. And so I actually walked away from it at that point. And I was much more, you know, I was like, well, I am really on the stage. Journey of discovering what it means to be a man and a lot of the clients I was working with. We started working on this, like, men's work, coaching, really diving deep into masculinity and masculine energy and our relationships with our fathers, all this really, really deep stuff. And I was pulled towards that path. But then it all for me, it really all clicked, you know, where I was like, one, yeah. It was it was actually in a breathwork session. I was here in Austin. I was and I was very lost. I don't know what the fuck I was doing. I was like, man, like, do I? I almost quit coaching twice. I was like, I don't even know if I want to keep doing this. I was really healing from a breakup. I was just like, not not in a space to really hold space for others. And I did this breathwork session. And I had this literally lightning bolt of clarity that came through me. And it was like, go back to artists. It was like these are the people that you know, but not only that This is the community that you are like called and destined to serve. There's already 5, 000 men's coaches in Austin We don't need another fucking men's coach. There's not coaching really happening in this space and for me like The story and the narrative that really clicked in my head was like, I had to go through the experience of, you know, being an artist when I was a teenager, not following that path, not having the guidance, not having the support, you know, going down the athlete path instead, crushing it really hard in that space, becoming an all American collegiate, all American rugby player, you know, but then kind of coming full circle, recognizing that that was why I was successful as an athlete was because I had, you know, I had structure. I had teamwork. I had all of these things that I had learned by being like a, you know, championship athlete. and I also had to have that pain of walking away from being an artist and knowing what that feels like. And now that has actually really become the driving force behind the mission is, um, I don't want anyone to feel that pain of walking away from their dream and from their passion. And a lot of times the difference between staying in it and walking away is just having that support in your corner. And a lot of artists don't have that support, right? It's like, it's not part of the sort of normal structure of that system. It's like, you're out there. Hacking away in the forest by yourself with your machete and your flashlight trying to figure things out, you know So it's all kind of come full circle. It really clicked for me, you know about about a year ago And I'm like, all right now I know why I went through that, you know,

Hisham Dahud (RIZIK): 54:30

from what I observed from you to Nick Whenever your imposter syndrome like kicks up again Like try remember maybe this notion is that as I saw you go through that, and I saw you return to artists I, I noticed from the videos I saw and now the results that you're, you're showcasing, you, you did it because you asked yourself, maybe subconsciously, like, where can I make the most impact in people's lives? You weren't like, what's the, where's the market capitalization on this? It was just like, what, where can I actually make an impact? You know what I mean? And for that, I, just respect

Nik-1: 54:58

And I, you know, it hit me too recently, which was pretty cool of realizing. I'm like, man, if I am an artist, if I went down the artist's path and like, let's say I, let's say I sold out a show of 2000 people. Like, cool. Like I'm making an impact on, on these 2000 people. But when I look at it, I'm like, yo, I've coached like, you know, just, just through coaching probably 150 people or more, not to mention everyone from fucking icon and all the past, you know, students or whatever. And I'm like, I got, I got 500 artists out there now playing in front of however X amount of people. And I'm like the ripple effect and the impact that that has now. And that really lights me up where I'm like, all right, let me, go help all, you know, this generation of people go become headliners and like that will affect literally millions of people. So that, that vision really lit me up and I'm like very

Hisham Dahud (RIZIK): 55:45

me throw this at you. Maybe this could be a sample, like, not a coaching moment, but for you, from you to me, actually. Uh, but just something I'd love your point of view on. As, and I've had this conversation at length with people, so, I think that. what I'm doing now, by returning to this whole thing again, and, and, and starting to start to make the progress I'm doing, there's a part of me that goes, this is inherently a selfish endeavor. What I'm doing because it's all about me, me, me, me. It's all about extracting. What's in me extracting my potential You know extracting doing something that I find Interesting and fun in my day and we think I wake up early in the morning like around 4 45 5 a. m Usually one of the ones productivity reasons, but number two, I'm happy to report because I'm just excited I'm excited about what ground I'm going to be breaking today, what new discovery I'm going to be making today, and like, progress is exciting. But I'm also very aware of like, this is still kind of like a selfish thing, and the only thing I can tie, Nick, is. that like, okay, yeah, like, the people who hear my music in the same way that when I hear other people's music, and it really fills me up, inspires me, like, that's a nice benefit. But I would argue that I'm not making music right now to enhance people's lives per se. I would almost argue that I'm making it to enhance my own. So what would you say to that notion of what I'm doing is actually, frankly, a selfish thing? It's a

Nik-1: 57:10

Well, I think on the one hand it is. I also think that it's actually not about the music. It's about your journey and how you're living your life. That you have chosen to go on the hero's journey. That you did choose. To pursue your calling and pursue your passion. And when other people see that, like, I'm watching you do it and I get inspired. I know what my mission is, and I'm committed to that. But if I didn't know what that was, I would, I might just say, fuck it, I'm gonna go be an artist. And so I'm excited for you and this also might help with your marketing. I'm excited for you to share your story and to tell your story because there's someone else out there and you might be listening to this podcast right now where you are working your nine to five job that, you know, isn't really lighting you up that, you know, isn't your actual purpose for why you're here. podcast They hear your story or they hear the story of Freddie Lane or any of my other friends and guests that I have that were in that similar situation and they made the decision to go for it and to cross that threshold, right? And then so seeing you actually succeed at it, seeing you play Coachella, seeing you put out your music and, and, and, and be able to do it. That right there is being in leadership and I guarantee you will inspire countless people when you continue to put yourself first and own that path, but also share it and, and, and really walk the talk, you know, like I'm also showing other people in a way like, Hey, yeah, like I've, I've been able to build my own career and build my own business and follow my pursuit and, and, and my passion. And, and, you know, I, I'm Talking to young coaches all the time being like, yo, you can do this too. it's not one or the other. It's the duality of it. Like, yeah, it's totally selfish, but by you being totally selfish and walking that path, you're all also in service of inspiring people to pursue a similar path and inspiring them into their greatness.

Hisham Dahud (RIZIK): 59:07

reflects like just healthy, if you think about it, like if you were to look at the artist to fan relationship, just healthy relationships in general, right? We're like, it's best to take care of yourself first. So, you know, we're going to take care of others. You know, so it does kind of reflect just like the natural flow of just relationships

Nik-1: 59:24

Yeah, dude, you gotta, you gotta put your own air mask on first, right? Your cup needs to be full in order for you to overflow into others.

Hisham Dahud (RIZIK): 59:31

I'll keep that in mind. If anything at my, my insecurity there is that, like, I, I'm frank, I'm still getting over this. I don't know if I fully am. I, like, I've almost tried to hide or mask the, the industry background I've had because I have this little floating voice in my head that would sprinkle a little dust that would remind me that whatever you're doing now. Your background has created an impurity to the creative stuff that you're doing now because you didn't come from that world. Hence, I'm self taught. Hence, I do all these things myself. But I'm starting to realize a little bit I was working with a singer here and she was doing some harmonies. And again, like, I know, I think I know the basics of like music theory, but like my own kind of version of it. And she was doing some harmonies and I was like, Oh, he, Oh, no, she was doing a line. I was like, can you do a harmony of that? So, she did all the harmonies that are in that particular scale. Right. And then I was like, uh, can you do this note? And she's like, oh, that's, that's not, that's not it. That's not the right one. I'm like, can you just try it? And like, it made for this beautiful, like full chorus y effect that I obviously, I went in and like started sampling and added to the track. And at the end of the session, you know, she, she sat down where she was about to leave. She's like, Hey, just like, I just want to say something to you. Like. I really love your intuition and instinct. And all I said to her was like, good, that's literally all I'm running on. I have no, I have nothing else, dude. I'm just doing my own thing, you know? So all those things I thought were bad are actually the thing that kind of separates me a little bit.

Nik-1: 1:00:59

A thousand percent, dude. A thousand percent. My entire career and life has just been driven by intuition. Like, what feels right? None of this shit is logical. None of this shit makes any fucking sense, you know? Like, there's no, there's no roadmap, but like, trust me. That, that inner voice and that, that inner gut feeling, you know, and yeah, also, again, it's, it's not necessarily one or the other, right? It's good to have the, the, the technical training and the logical side of it, but a lot of people are disconnected from that intuition and that's where the fucking

Hisham Dahud (RIZIK): 1:01:28

Yeah. And again, it all comes to like, it's like, where did you, where did you come from? Right. I mean, I came from a band background where like all of us didn't fucking know? anything about music. We just knew about like vibes and it felt

Nik-1: 1:01:39

we're drummer. We're drummers, bro. We come from feeling, you know what I mean? It was like we're not you're not thinking about what you're doing. You're just like what what does

Hisham Dahud (RIZIK): 1:01:46

That's a great,

Nik-1: 1:01:47

to do? Like that's that's our that's

Hisham Dahud (RIZIK): 1:01:48

a great thing to bring up because my whole musical career has been about responding to music. Like, responding to how music makes me feel.

Nik-1: 1:01:55

Yeah. And it's totally different. Like if you grew up, uh, being classically trained in the piano and you were learning how to sight read, you know, like that's a very intellectual, different style. Right. And so we're all gonna, you know, operate from different places, but, but we're lucky, bro. We grew up as drummers. We got some fucking, We got we got, groove and we got passion and we got fucking insight.

Hisham Dahud (RIZIK): 1:02:17

my friend Thomas in Berlin, he's an amazing piano player, plays Chopin amazingly. Uh, and one time he said to me, he's like, you, you play like a drummer on the piano. I'm like, I know, I know. He's like, no, no. It's good.

Nik-1: 1:02:28

Just like,

Hisham Dahud (RIZIK): 1:02:29

It's good. I can tell you're a percussionist, you know.

Nik-1: 1:02:32

yeah, I love it dude. I can always hear it too. Like I, like one of my, one of my good buddies and clients is a really sick producer too. And like he'll, he'll throw these little like, little grooves and shit. You know like in the, in the, the melodies in the production. I'm like, only a drummer would do that. Only

Hisham Dahud (RIZIK): 1:02:45

And I, before, before my parents got me my first drum set, I had a little Yamaha keyboard and I was playing finger drums. Like I just knew where all the maps were. So I would I'm used to playing tom fills. On my fingers so like this new track i'm working on now, like it's so obvious I'm, just doing like triplets like that. are i'm doing a tom fill For this one little phrase It's so obvious to me, you know, but it's like but that's me That's

Nik-1: 1:03:08

sure, for sure, man. This is something I always like to tell artists as well as like, a lot of people's goal is I want, I want someone to feel something. I want my fans to, I want them to feel my music and I'm like, all right, well, you got to feel your music. You got to make your music from a place of feeling if you want that energy to be transmuted through your music. And I think that's, One of the best ways that you can feel your music is to get out of just clicking fucking buttons in Ableton and like, get your hands on something, get your hands on a controller, get your hands on a keyboard, get your hands on something, like, stand up while you're doing it, like, get your body into it, get your feeling into it, and that energy will go into the music, and it will be felt in a different way than when it's just coming from the mind and you're

Hisham Dahud (RIZIK): 1:03:51

Oh, dude, absolutely like, that that track that i'm working on or that I just finished up rather like I I made like the drum pack. I got the sounds I wanted and I noticed that I was like, all right, cool I guess we're done here. I'm just gonna like program these in But I noticed, I was like, alright, let me pull the sticks out, let me play it on the sampler. And I noticed every time I played it on the sampler, I just kept playing this 3 4 pattern. I'm like, dance music in 3 4? Like, what the fuck? This doesn't make any sense. But the more I kept doing it, I'm like, no, this, this is a naturally feel, this rhythm feels good. It feel, it has life to it. Like, cause it's coming from, I'm moving to this, like, all right, we're just going to record this and just kind of see where it takes us. And that led, that led the rhythmic pace of the, of almost the rest of the song. It does go into 4 4 at the end for the big climax, but, but I just noticed that when I just switched it up, I'm just going to play this part and it comes out so much different.

Nik-1: 1:04:41

and that's, that's the big thing, man. I think in a very simple way to break it down, it's like get in tune with your feeling, get in tune with the gut, visceral, intuitive feeling, identify where that is. Get in tune with it. You need to be able to listen to it. You need to be able to feel it, right? Whether that's like a whisper in your ear, whether that's a feeling inside of your gut, then have the courage. To trust it and to follow it. That's the other part. Cause it might not make any logical sense. Like what? Three, four, wait a minute. This doesn't follow the rules. Your job as an artist is to break the fucking rules, right? Have the courage to break the rules. Have the courage to, to try to do something different. You know, if we look back on. Any of the, you know, artists that came out of ICON that really blew the fuck up, we can identify a way, some way, that they all broke the rules in some way. They all started, you know, adding a different flavor, a different sauce, making a certain genre of music in a way that shouldn't really have been made, you know, and so that's where the breakthrough is, right? Is in taking the

Hisham Dahud (RIZIK): 1:05:42

I, I definitely, I just want to say this to the people I know who are listening to this, I'm just like, I know we all, we all feel it. Right. This, like. This pressure to constantly release, to constantly get stuff out there, which, you know, I always, I just always shun because it takes away, it robs you of, of that discovery process. So again, that's, it took me three and a half weeks for this one song. And like the, that drum part I just described to you, I mean, that, that was two days. That was just two days of just like really diving deep, fucking with sound design and eventually coming to this, like, Six bars of just like, all right, after two days, here's all I got of just like these six bars, but there's so much light that went into it. So what I want to bring up is that like, again, so many people feel this pressure, like I got to release every two weeks, every three weeks, et cetera. I propose a different kind of marriage of the two worlds. If you were of my marketing world, that would demand actually yet do I need content, I need releases from you consistently. If we're going to build your audience base. But now that I have this Thank God. It's just more like creative freedom and I, and, and understanding what it means to go in deep with your creative work and really spend time, spend time on it, treat, treat your tracks as compositions, What I would say, this is what I'm just following my own advice here is like, I believe it's okay to go away for a while. To disappear for a while, to get off social media, to not be influenced by everyone who's doing everything better than you all over, all around, and just dive deep on, on your compositions and then bank, just bank, create a body of work, a catalog, if you will, of songs that you can feel that, you know what? I took those as far as they could go, man. I gave myself two, three weeks, whatever it might be. I brought in, That song, I brought in an oud player, I brought in another singer, I, to fully realize what this vision is. Because dude, you have to sit with the music for periods of time. That's why you have version six, seven, eight. You just have to keep sitting with it. And your ears, naturally, after they've rested, of course, will start to fill in the gaps. They'll start to hear things. And eventually, it is the da Vinci saying, right? Of like, it's never finished, it's only abandoned. When you go like, that's pretty self well realized. Do that over the course of eight to ten songs, and then of course, create all the supplemental stuff, the videos, the promotional stuff, have those in the bank. So when it does come time to pull the trigger, you can start releasing because everything was already made in advance. Meanwhile, you're doing a photo shoot, or maybe you're working on the next batch of material, but you have that eight to ten track with videos. If you were just to use the, the two week, you know? release strategy, that's sixteen weeks. Of stuff that's just rolling you're just rolling and then you get to disappear again and make music again

Nik-1: 1:08:22

dude, I love that you bring that up because I've been having this conversation a lot and floating this idea around a lot about having seasons and it makes me think about a traditional like rock band signed to a major label like you go in the studio for six months and you write music or you go in a cabin and you record your fucking album for months, right? And then like album writing and recording mode is over. And then we go on tour and now we're out playing, and then maybe we take the summer off and we take a few months to see the family and hang out. And that's the, that's the way it's been done, you know? And so, especially in the EDM space where it's like, yeah, put out a track every week, you know, or every month. And there's almost this constant weight and pressure that's on your shoulders. Uh, what we're really talking about here is lifestyle design. It doesn't have to be that way. What if you took three months to just. Completely go in on music and then that was it. And then the rest of your year could be spent, you know, focusing on the marketing or, you know, taking fucking vacations, taking some time off, going out and living your life. Like we were talking about earlier, you know, I, I remember talking to Derek from slander one time and he was like, yeah, he's like, I make pretty much all. The music in January is like we take off January and like maybe like the first six weeks of the year and we make all our music then I don't know if they still operate that way anymore. But he was like when when we're out flying around being in hotels and he's like, I can't produce that way. I need to be in my home studio. And so we just block ourselves in. We make all our music for the year and then we kind of don't have to worry about it. You know, so Again, you know, you gotta find out what works for you, but just to plant that seed, if it's not working for you, producing every day, making content every day, feeling like you're always on a constant hamster wheel, maybe there's a different way that you can do

Hisham Dahud (RIZIK): 1:10:08

Yeah, maybe some people like you said resonate with the way but call me old school nick But like I grew up in the era where like yeah, that's exactly what bands did and frankly that was the lifestyle That I wanted to emulate. Dude, I did not grow up as a little kid teaching himself instruments, saying, Boy, I cannot wait to make my full time occupation making temporary distractions for these phone addicts. No, that's that's why I don't want to be an Instagram musician I don't want to do all these things, like no I'd rather go really deep on shit and find the people who really appreciate that shit And again have a seasonality because like the lifestyle i'm looking to build calls for intense moments of deep creativity I fucking love being in this room. I'm a very social person, but I fucking love being in this room in my home But I also know? there's going to be seasonality here like all right I gotta kind of go out there now and show people it and and bring it around the world But at the same time like it's it's not realistic to be like I made a track people liked it Fuck I gotta go make another one. That's that's just saying it for

Nik-1: 1:11:05

Yeah, yeah, man. Well, I love your perspective. I love your journey. I love you as a person. Thank you to all of the listeners for joining today and listening to me and Hashem catch up for an hour. This was very, very fulfilling for me. It's so great to see you next time. I'm in L. A. I will hit you up and we will hang. I miss you, dude. And thanks for

Hisham Dahud (RIZIK): 1:11:26

man cheers. Well, thank you for having me. It was just good to see your face again