&FRIENDS - Creating Art With Passion and Purpose

Next round of the Headliner Mindset coaching group and community starts July 22! 

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This week’s episode of the Headliner Mindset podcast features a truly magical artist and human, &friends.

After leaving music behind and taking a 7 year hiatus, going on a deep journey of personal and spiritual development, Sean Thomas returned to his passion to create an amazing collaborative artist project that has sent him touring all over the world.

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Transcript

Sean: 0:00

And I think that's the biggest thing that you really need to have in order to make it for an artist. You have to have a purpose. Pure passion and a pure purpose, or else when you hit those low points, you're just gonna want to hit the eject button. And that goes for everything in life. That's just not music that goes to building any business that goes to building anything, which is why I think a lot of people kind of quit too early is because they didn't actually have a pure purpose and a mission behind what they were actually doing

Nik: 0:38

What's up everybody. Welcome to the Headliner Mindset Podcast. Today's guest is truly a magical human with an incredible story and soul. After pursuing the artist's path in his early twenties, he took a long break from music, going on a deep personal development journey and building a successful business in the process. When music started calling him again, he not only had a clear vision of what he wanted to create, but he was also clear on his purpose for pursuing this path again. Years since launching his project, he has toured all over the world, collaborated with incredible artists from across the globe, and has reached millions of people with his heartfelt and soul lifting music. This is Sean Thomas from Friends.

Sean: 1:18

my bro Nick, you're way too kind. You're making me blush already, bro. Come on.

Nik: 1:25

Welcome to the show, dude. I am super, super pumped that we get to connect. We've been talking about having this conversation for a while. You've just been too damn busy flying around the world, playing shows and being an incredible DJ and artist. So, uh, I'm glad we could finally create the time and space to sit down and do this.

Sean: 1:44

Likewise, you know, I think everything is always in divine timing. That's, uh, what I've really realized, whether that be anything in life, timing is always everything. And certainly enough, finally the stars aligned and here we are.

Nik: 1:57

Yeah, a hundred percent. A hundred percent. Now, speaking of timing. I always love to think about how I know my artists. You're one of the artists, the guests I should say, that I've known for a very long time. And we were catching up the other day. You said you didn't remember the first time that we met. So I want to remind you, because there's a really cool story. There's a really cool story tied up in this. This was, man, it must have been 2012 probably. I had just started. My first management job, which was working with Ryan Jaso and helping manage Chris White, who now runs the Cult Creatives, Ryan Jaso, I just had on my podcast the other day, he runs the Super Evil Genius Corp, uh, agency, amazing guys, but that, this was my first time managing and, uh, They sent me down to Tijuana, Mexico, for a show at, what was it called or no, was it in TJ or Rosa? Maybe it was Rosarito. Papas in Beer. I think it was Rosarito. Yeah, Papas in Beer and fucking Rosarito. It was Chris White. It was you back when you had your DJ duo. And I think there was this guy paparazzi. I don't know if he's still out there in the game, but some OG shit. Anyways, what

Sean: 3:17

Do you know who was also there?

Nik: 3:19

Who?

Sean: 3:20

That now is known as one of the biggest artists in the world. He was in a duo at the time. Fisher.

Nik: 3:26

Fisher was there also.

Sean: 3:29

at the time. And I remember who's this crazy Australian. No one really knew who they were, but he's just a crazy Australian. And then like five years later, I'm like, Oh my God, that was that guy from that duo.

Nik: 3:38

So my favorite part about that, you know, this is my first time ever, sort of like, you know, tour managing super pumped to go down to Mexico. We go to Papa's and beer. There are fucking zero people there. There were more DJs than there were people at the show. There was nobody there. But what I loved about it was we literally took. like the speakers and there was like a little table, you know, like a VIP kind of table behind the booth. We just turned the speakers around and just DJ for ourselves and everybody just, we just like had our own little party there. Uh, I will always remember my first time. Tour managing somebody and you were there. So that was, I'm glad I could bring that memory back. Cause that was so fun.

Sean: 4:23

Forgot about that one,

Nik: 4:24

and now okay, so Where yeah, that was a long time ago. You're in a very very different place and I would love to Share with the listeners a bit about your story Because yeah, that was back in 2012. You told me that you you know at that time obviously were pursuing music grinding producing DJing chasing that dream But then at some point you decided to stop and you took like I think you said six years off from making music so tell me what was happening at that time and What made you decide to? Take that break. I think that's really important for people to hear because It's okay to take a break if you feel like you need to but what was going on at that time that made you decide? you wanted to stop

Sean: 5:11

Wow. Yeah. Interesting to think about. Um, I think there was just so much happening in my own personal life. And, you know, I think when you're also working with somebody and as like a duo, I think also a lot can change. Personalities can change. Um, you know, music tastes can change what your vision is, can change. And I think that there was just so much of that happening while also, I think we were also experiencing, you know, We have these record labels that were promising things fell through. We were having like management things that were talking about fell through and everything that seemed like It was going to be that next step of evolution just ended up falling through. And then, you know, I went through some really deep personal loss. I lost my little brother and you know, my little brother was also a kind of a gateway of connection with music. And I think when he passed away, I think part of me really had passed away. And I think I had, I had a lot to grow as a human being. And at the same time, I think I think in the music industry can be a really grueling one. So if you're not very grounded emotionally, mentally, physically, spiritually, you don't have broad perspective. You can't really take a lot of hits on the chin and on the shoulders. It's it's going to be challenging and I just I just wasn't ready. And you know, I kind of went through this process of what's my next step going to be, you know, I'd always kind of been a creative in a sense. And that's when I kind of got into the marketing world and got into kind of digital marketing, got into paid acquisition, got into the creative side of paid acquisition. And Yeah, I put all the music to a side and I was just didn't want to be this starving artist that's trying to make it because I just didn't think I was ready for it. I didn't know if it was ever going to come back. To be completely frank, I had no clue. It was more. I just became back to the music enthusiast because I love music. That's how I got into starting as I was going to shows. Um, you know, I started writing music. I started writing hip hop because I'm a writer. I love to write. I love to flow. And that was also my connection with my brother. He loved hip hop. Yeah, I think I just needed some time to figure out my own life and to figure out what my pure direction was. And I don't think I was in that position just to continue to keep pursuing it because I didn't know what I wanted as a human being. I didn't have a pure purpose or a pure mission. And I think that's the biggest thing that you really need to have in order to make it for an artist. You have to have a purpose. Pure passion and a pure purpose, or else when you hit those low points, you're just gonna want to hit the eject button. And that goes for everything in life. That's just not music that goes to building any business that goes to building anything, which is why I think a lot of people kind of quit too early is because they didn't actually have a pure purpose and a mission behind what they were actually doing anything. Right. So that's kind of why I left. And, um, you know, I moved to New York, in about 2015. I got an opportunity that I couldn't refuse to come work with these incredible guys who were kind of the wolf of Wall Street of paid acquisition, got an offer. I couldn't refused. I, uh, You know, packed all my bags in two weeks, took two suitcases and moved to New York. We grew the company from five people to about 70 people by 2021, but it was in 2018, which, yeah, it was about six, about six years. When I hadn't touched Ableton, I hadn't DJ'ed at all. Nothing. Cold Turkey. It was like, uh, a cigarette smoker. Just, that's it. I'm done. And I remember a club in New York open called Gospel, and we went in opening weekend and we walked down the stairs, and for those people who have never been in Gospel, there's some type of energy in there that is pretty magical. And come to find out, Jimi Hendrix used to record in the basement at the same spot. So, it has a lot of music energy. And I remember opening weekend, we walked down the stairs and the music hit, and I thought to myself, I need to play here. I need to play again. I need this fixed back in my life. And even if it was just a hobby. And sure enough, six months later I, you know, got connected with one of the bookers there, met the creative director there and they offered me a show, you know, we hopped on a call and, uh, they asked me to send a mix. So I was like, can I just tell you my story? Uh, cause I don't have a mix, but, uh, let me tell you my story. And sure enough, they gave me a Thursday night. And I always get a little goosebumps telling this story because that Thursday night I played, it fell on December 6, 2018, which was my brother's birthday. Um, and it was about, yeah, about three and a half years after he had passed away.

Nik: 9:46

Talk about divine, timing.

Sean: 9:48

Yes, exactly. That was what I was just about to say. Kind of the message of how we started this conversation. And from there, the music I played. I became best friends with Kevin, who is still a best brother of mine, who still runs Gospel, all the bookings and A& R there. And he's like, our home is your home. And I told him, I work 100 hours a week, but I'd love to play once a month. And, you know, once a month, once a month for about, you know, two years until kind of COVID hit. And when COVID hit, I'm sure everybody kind of had that realization of, What is it that I really love doing? And that was making music and you know, I reconnected with a really good friend of mine who is an incredible producer That is my partner in the whole entire project of end friends. Mikey and Yeah, him and I just started kind of writing music together I basically kind of painted a vision of what I want to build and how I want to build it and And we just wrote music just for fun, still, you know, I was still working full time, but a year, about a year and a half later, we had written about eight records, 10 records. And, things just started accelerating at a very rapid rate. And that's when I left my company in October of 2021. But I think the big thing is where I found my passion and purpose was when I found my crew, the four singers from Nigeria who are like my family. that's where I got my passion. That's where I defined like purpose and that's where I found it in was how can I help artists, who have so much talent that don't have, you know, the necessary resources or the connections or anything. And how can I collaborate with people that I really believe in and build something really special? And that was kind of how everything really started to unfold. It was when Dami, Mikey and I, we started working on a couple of records. And then he brought Fina, the female vocalist. And we started working on a couple of records. And then again, we worked on records with them for about nine months until. I thought it's time, it's ready. And then that's when Mikey and I went to Nigeria and that trip changed everything.

Nik: 11:49

All right. So we're gonna pause there because, uh, I find it really fascinating and interesting and also very important that you talked about the necessity of really finding yourself and actually really being ready. Cause like in that, we can call it just that first stage of when we met and you pursuing the artist's path and your music career. You weren't really ready on a deep, grounded level, like your, mindset, and your emotional state, and just who you are as a person, you know, you're also still very young, so I just think it's such a cool story that you tell. You had to kind of go find yourself and you had to develop, you had to develop some parts of yourself to actually really be ready because it seemed like what you have since then created in what, like, yeah, a year and a half, two years. It was like, oh, you were actually ready. It's actually working. You're doing it very, very quickly, right? There's a different energy. There's a different passion. There's a different business strategy. Like, You're like a real adult now, you know, and like you're able to just make it work differently. There's so many ingredients that are there now that weren't there before when you were really young. And, you know, I always talk about how like, yeah, it is about more than the music. It's about more than the branding. It's about more than just the business and the strategy. It's like after coaching hundreds of people and, you know, working with literally thousands of artists, it's That's the big missing link that I've found is like, are you actually ready as a person, right? Do you have the discipline, the drive, the work ethic, as you also said, purpose, the actual deeper driving force that's going to keep you going when things get hard, right? So I just, I really want to highlight that part of your story. I think it's, um, you know, Yeah, I think it's just so important for people to be looking at that. Now, I know one thing that you mentioned to me, you know, cause this is like, this is why I got into life coaching where I was like, yeah, I was a business guy for the longest time. I was like, you know, I was a manager. I was the music business teacher at icon collective. And then I kind of lost passion for that. And I was much more interested in who are these people that are chasing the stream? What is their driving force and what are the actual blocks in their life, whether consciously or unconsciously that are getting in the way. So that's what drove me towards life coaching. What's up, everybody. This is Nick. And as we dive into this conversation about coaching, I just want to announce that I'm about to launch the next round of the headliner mindset group coaching program and community. This is something that I am so proud of. And I believe in so wholeheartedly because really, we're diving into some of the deeper stuff that is actually going to make you successful your mindset, your energy, your time management, Your drive and your work ethic and also your ability to break through creative blocks and find your own lane find your own sound Know what your purpose is. Have a clear idea of who you are and what you're all about and what you're trying to say. You know what actually is going to make you unique and different. This is all the stuff that is so important before you get to really building your brand and your marketing and all the external stuff. That you need to be working on. You really got to work on that internal stuff as well. And it's important to also not do that work alone. So that's why I'm really excited about this community and what it is growing into how it's been evolving. Uh, it's honestly, it's been so much fun So I put together this program that has eight weeks of video lessons and exercises, all the best stuff that I've taught to my clients over the years. And we have not one, but two different coaching calls every week. And the best part is that even when those eight weeks are up, you still are a member of this community. And that's really important to me. It's been so rad to see. How this community is growing and how everybody has just been supporting each other and loving each other and really going deep with each other. So you have access not only to those coaching calls, but we also have a private discord. We have monthly guests that come through and, uh, it's just been such a blast. So if you're interested in being a part of this next round, send me a DM on Instagram and you can also get more information at nickcherwink. com slash headliner mindset. I'll put that link in the show notes, and like I said, I only take on 10 people at a time for this. I already have a couple of slots filled, but if this is resonating with you and you're ready to level up, definitely hit me up and I'd love to have you be a part of it. And I know you mentioned to me that you did have a coach, of some kind, as well. I would love to hear about, the coach that you found and the role that that person played in your life. Cause it sounds like there was a lot of personal development that happened, over those years.

Sean: 16:41

Yeah. I think this is something. That is a big topic for artists that needs to be talked about more, which is why, you know, I admire the work that you're doing with artists because it allows them to purposely Drive forward with what they want to build and create and even if they don't know that Those are things that really they need to like have a guide that uncovers the doors, right? So I always think about coaches, you know I think there's it's that space just like music and just like a lot of industries gets Oversaturated with a lot of people and I think you know coaching music. There's so much noise happening but I think When you find the right person, the way that I always kind of, um, give the analogy of what my executive coach did for me was basically I feel as if we are human beings and we need to go down a hundred flights of stairs in a pitch black building, and we have no idea where the doors are or where the stairways are. Right? And we have so many layers to this being. because we've all been through our own traumas. We've all gone through so much loss. We've all gone through insecurities, whatever it may be. We all have a story to tell and we've all gone through a lot of crap in our lives that, you know, sometimes we allow that to kind of block our perspective and those things get shorter and shorter and shorter. So the way my coach helped me, I always say my coach was the flashlight. So we need to get to this door. We need to get the floor 99. Okay, well, here's the door. Let's go and open it. Okay. Now let's start diving into the stairways. Okay. Here's the next step. Here's the flashlight. Here's the flashlight. And I think if you can find a coach who is a beautiful flashlight that really widens the perspective. So you don't have to point fingers elsewhere. You can point fingers inward because that's the biggest thing. And I think the thing with what I've seen traveling so much is, especially in the States, most people were always pointing elsewhere. Yeah. we want to make an excuse of why this isn't happening and that's not happening and this isn't happening because of this person or that or this happened to me. This where if you start to kind of curve that finger and okay, what can I actually do? What am I not seeing? What am I missing? And I think I was missing so much man. I was a good person, but I was still living in so much self insecurity. Why me? Poor me. How come I went through this? How come I lost my little brother? How come when this happened, how come this happened? And it was hindering a lot of my ability to see straight. And I think especially with growing a business and growing a business very rapidly and in New York and a high paced environment, Ooh, I mean. You know what New York is, you either get swallowed up or you become, you become a new version of yourself that you didn't know you could become. And I think combined with, what I was doing here in New York and how much it was forcing me to grow because it was so uncomfortable, and then kind of combine that with my executive coach who. I just felt like I could talk about everything and anything where I probably never did talk about too many of these things with people. It just started to kind of broaden my perspective of so much and realize that this is an inward journey of the work that I can do. Stop looking elsewhere, stop pointing fingers of why X, Y, and Z isn't happening. And I think once you find that right person who you really can trust and who is a good guide of opening perspective. And again, it's a saturated market. It is really hard to find people that you can really trust like that. Wow. That's when I started really unlocking a lot of growth in myself. Yep.

Nik: 20:22

being willing to do that work because a lot of us are just looking at like, okay Well, how do I scale the business? How do I be more efficient with my time management? How do I get more money to hire a team? You know, how do I scale or whatever and it's like no the answers are not outside. The answers are inside How do you become a different kind of person? How do you tap into your potential and have a, you know, deeper connection with yourself? And like you said, let go a big theme I from you is letting go of a victim mindset and actually taking full ownership of not only your life, but like your power and your potential, right? The truth is, as a coach, all I can do is hold the flashlight. You also have to be coachable. You also have to be what I call. I'm like, I like, I want to work with all star athletes. I can't drag anybody up the fucking field. I'm on the sidelines so I can hold the flashlight. I can show you where the handle is, but you got to be the one that realizes that you have the key and you got to be the one that reaches out and grabs it and actually has the courage to walk through that door. So it's a, it's a two way street. You can have a great coach, but you also have to be a great client. And so that's when. Results really pop off. So to also shine some of that light back on you and really acknowledge you as well. It sounds like you were a very coachable person that was actually ready to do the fucking work, which not everybody is. And this is the hard thing with coaching. Sometimes it's people are like, All right, I'm ready for a coach. And I think that, like, This person is going to change my life. I'm like, no, I'm not going to change your life. I can't change your life. You have to change your fucking life. And that's about putting your boots on the ground and doing the work, you know? So, um, sounds like you found the right person. You guys had a beautiful relationship and experience. And, you know, as someone that, does really believe in the power of coaching someone that, you know, my life revolves around doing this work. It makes me really, really happy to see that you found that, you know, and, and now obviously It's done some wonders because you are now out there just doing some incredible stuff, you know, obviously not only Building a awesome, digital marketing business like that's huge One dude have the I'd say the courage like I love hearing that like the spark for music came back You know that little thing inside of you started to wake up again And then you also have the courage to actually go follow it Another part of your story I want to pick up on that you mentioned, you know, and friends is a collaborative project. And this is something that I've been having conversations about a lot more as well. Had a really good conversation with bright lights and the bright lights episode where we talked about the truth that like most really great artists and most really great songs are not being made by one person by themselves in their bedroom. And that's what I call like. the bedroom producer mindset as opposed to like the headliner mindset. I think the headliner mindset is when you realize like, yo, one plus one equals three. There's more that I can do when I'm working with other people. So Mikey, who's a shout out, Mikey fucking love that guy. He's an icon collective graduate have known him forever. He's the one like, I know he's got a, like a wife and kids and he's like, I want to stay home and I'm going to help and work on the music and Sean gets to be the guy that goes out and tours the world and gets to, be the sort of face of it. But this idea of collaboration, you're also collaborating with, um, you know, these other artists. So let's just talk about that a little bit. Cause it just seems like collaboration is such a big part of this project. It's really not, it's like definitely not just one person doing it.

Sean: 23:51

for sure. And I always make sure that people always know that, right? I do find it very challenging when, you know, there are so many producers who don't give enough credit to the teams that they have, especially from a production standpoint behind them. And I know it gets harder when you're touring and when so many things, which is why it is essential to have a good team. And I think for me, you know, You know, Mikey's not just a part of team. He's my business partner, right? We started this together. And that's where for me, I know, I know my strengths, right? My strengths rely on ideation and sound and Mikey strengths rely on technical and engineering. And there's just, I think when you put When they have no egos from a musicality perspective, you know, I think that's why there's so many beautiful duos out there because they're both the same, right? I think they, they push each other to grow and they push each other from a production standpoint and hopefully as a friendship standpoint. when you take a look at our vocalists, you know, with all the one Danvick, Fina, uh, LJ and Dotton. Wow. I mean, I mean, when I knew I wanted to get back into music. I knew I never wanted this to be just myself And you know, I think for me Going through that process of really building a business and what it takes to build a business I also found so much a pain inside of that too because What happened was, yes, I started making really good money, but I also knew that my body was telling me something that wasn't right, that I was supposed to be doing something else. And, you know, I think our body always knows something way before our brain does. Always, right? Intuition, you know, even with relationships here, a lot of people were like, Oh, yeah, my relationship, well, your body was telling you something way before you even knew it, or your job or whatever it may be. And so when we started really building this project, I knew I wanted this to be something more than just myself. I knew this was going to be something more than just DJ sets. Like I already had the vision. I already had what I want to build. And especially for me, I always had a deep liking to, for, you know, and hip hop I started with, you know, right? Like that was my, my first passion. Common, Nas, Dre, those guys were the poets. And also when you think about Dre or when you think about, uh, Nas what do they believe in? Look at all the guys they were collaborating with. You know, why do you think they push so hard and push so fast? Because they were doing it with others. I love the quote. If you want to go far or I'm gonna butcher the quote now What is it again?

Nik: 26:28

Yeah, if you want to go fast go

Sean: 26:30

go alone if you want to

Nik: 26:31

far

Sean: 26:32

go together. Yeah go together Yeah, so And right when I had that first call with Demi, Olawa Dambic we talked on the phone for two hours. He told me a story whole story. We dove deep on life We dove deep on so many things, you know when we had first met it's crazy When we had first met he had just gotten denied his u. s visa because he's trying to come to the u. s for school and in nigeria Man, it's it's challenging. It's a beautiful country with such beautiful people that have life But there's a whole dark side of it where it's very challenging to even you know, make a living there And so I told him, look, let's start with a couple of records. Let's see how things go. But I, here's my whole vision. And I could tell you just thought I was nuts. But it started, it started there and I just knew it. I knew that these were the crew that I wanted to build with. This is what feels good from a heart to heart and a soul to soul connection. And it's funny, I get goosebumps as I'm saying this, but Demi also just had, wow. Dami had something about him that reminded me of my brother, and it was really interesting. Um, oh, yeah, oof.

Nik: 27:43

Yeah, yes feel that, dude,

Sean: 27:47

that, that was, and I was talking to so many vocalists at the time, but just something never felt right. And when I talked to Damien, I said, this feels right. And yeah, the first track that he even wrote was right after he had gotten denied his student visa and he was back home with his mom and he was going through a bit of a challenging time. And it was the first record we ended up releasing too, which is called Gagbe'e, which means let go. And, you know, and then the second record that we released was Odeirete, which everyone knows is Odele, but that record means hunters of hope in Yoruba. So I think there was a certain frequency and there was a certain intention of everybody who I wanted to start collaborating with, starting from Mikey to Dami, to Fina, to LJ, to Dawton. And, you know, that's now what we've really created is this incredible family. And that's why I can't wait, you know, the big vision of what we start soon in August 14th is going to be our second live show with the four of them singing with some live instrumentalists. And that's what I want to do. Yeah, it's gonna be incredible. So even, you know, the first live show that we did last, uh, August in Egypt, that was the first time they'd ever have a stamp on a passport. And first time I took a plane and I want to help artists and people and creatives, especially I want to help them have the first, that's like what my passion and purpose really is.

Nik: 29:10

Yeah. I hear how the energetic alignment is such a theme here as well of, of energy. It was like you're in Mikey's energy. You were just in alignment. Like, Hey, we, we get to along as people. We have similar tastes like this feels good. And. I feel like the deeper I go into the work that I'm doing, and even just the work on myself, I keep coming back to this truth that it's just, like, everything is energy. And it's all about following the energy, getting in alignment with yourself first, but then getting in alignment with the energy. You're art, like what feels good to make, like what really feels fun and brings you joy and excitement or whatever that feeling is. And then also like when it comes to working with people, you know, whether that's working with people on your music, whether that's working with people in your business, whether that's, Working with a romantic partner. And so it's just all about alignment, right? Does my energy align with yours and to not try to force yourself into anything? Cause also it's easy to look at, well, this is what's happening in the industry. So let me try to, let me try to put myself into that energy rather than being super tuned into where is my energy naturally and authentically, and then build everything from there, which, you know, it really sounds like you've been able to do. Now I'm really interested. How did you end up collaborating with all of these Africans and you went to like Nigeria it's not like you were just collaborating with like some dudes in New York or California, like literally other side of the world, whole different, you know, and musical background, a whole different culture, like what drew you to that? And how did you end up really making that connection into that world in that lane?

Sean: 30:58

Yeah, it's, uh, I mean, we could go on for that for hours, but I would say the short version of that is kind of going back to what got me into music and what I, why I became like a music fanatic in the first place was hip hop, right? I've always had such a deep, uh, curiosity towards hip hop and African culture. For me, that's where I felt soul. That's where I felt pure storytelling. And I think the same thing why I loved a lot of Afro funk and you think about like Fela Kuti and hearing his documentary and listening to his music. There's a certain, going back to what you were saying, energy and frequency. There's a certain energy and frequency that I just felt so aligned to. Right, that it made me feel really good. And I like that feeling. So I want to work in something in that realm. And when I started DJing and back in 2018, this is even before Afro house was even a thing. I love that style of music, Latin Afro, just the rhythms, the soul, right? The energy that it emitted in me was really palpable, like it felt good. That's what felt good for me. And so when I started kind of diving deeper into, you know, when I was like, Oh, I want to create this project. I also really wanted to, I think from a musicality perspective, I mean, you vocalists, there's so much purity. And when you look at when I started diving deeper with Damian, Fina and LJ and Dotton, they all were singing in churches when they were like five, six years old. And that's where it came from. So again, going back to soul, going back to energy and frequency. That's what felt good for me. So I wanted to go find something that felt good. And I wasn't just looking for African vocalist period. I was like on this company, a site's called sound better, which was acquired by Spotify. I think they sold it back, but anyways, it's kind of like a talent pool for session players, vocalists, mixing, mastering, everything. Any, you want to find a trumpet player and who somewhere you can find them. And Nick, it was probably a month where I was just. Going through vocalists. What feels good? What feels good? What feels good? What feels good? And that's when I came across Dami and he made just more like afro beats but I heard the tonality of his voice and I just said Who, who is this human being? There's something so rich and something so beautiful that I've never heard in a vocalist before. I've never heard a tone like that before. And you know, I think that's kind of what kickstarted all. I wasn't necessarily just trying to find an African vocalist. I was more of looking to find what feels good for me and going back to our energy and frequency alignment. What is a frequency that's hitting that hits my tuning fork that feels so good? And that's where I came across Dami and just the rest is kind of history from there.

Nik: 33:45

I like that, metaphor of like, your tuning fork, you know, I talk about that a lot when I'm diving into the art of flow and creativity, where it's like, we all have our own natural energetic frequency. matter of like, tuning into that, figuring out like what that tuning is and what that frequency is, you know, that you really, uh, is that natural frequency, that natural alignment. So, yeah, talking about frequency, I'm about to blow your fucking mind right now, actually. Um, so. My mom taught African dance for 40 years and was a really big, like really, really deep in that culture. Like she moved to Oakland when she was right out of high school, I think, or she was like 20 or something, moved to Oakland Bay area. She was kind of like a, like a legendary, you know, total fucking white woman, but like super in the African dance scene and community and culture and, um, was a big part of that scene for a long time. So. Literally, my mom's water broke while she was teaching African dance class, like I was born into that world. And I grew up having tribes of African people come and stay at our house and dance troops and like, just totally grew up in that scene. It was a really interesting upbringing. my middle name actually even is African. My middle name is Nkisi Ashe. Most people would not know it. You know, know that seeing, uh, this, this fucking, you know, jock looking white dude. But like, really grew up around live African drumming. My mom held a drum class in our living room every Wednesday night growing up, like a bunch of people banging on drums. And so, you know, naturally I think I, You know, at a young age was my first love, my first instrument being connected to the rhythm. And then, um, also not surprisingly, you know, ended up, uh, I remember having like a breakthrough at like a rave one night, just like dancing. And I had never danced until I discovered the rave scene and the rave culture. And I'm just breaking it down and I'm like, Oh, I'm like, my mom would be so proud of me right now. There's like letting loose and dancing. So, um, yeah. Yeah, it was cool because like I, have like a connection to that culture and to that frequency and to that energy and to the sounds as well. And just like, it's just such a cool world. There's cool stuff coming out of there. So yeah, most people don't know that about me. Yeah,

Sean: 36:09

thing, especially being a white male in America because we're not really told those types of stories, I'm sure those experiences from a young age. broadens your perspective in such a way and you know, I think you like I said kind of similar to yours going to Nigeria for me for the first time and experiencing that culture and Seeing how people lived with such little but had more life than I'd ever seen in in my whole entire life You know, I watched kids the happiest I've ever seen the world, joyful smiles that ear to ear playing with sticks and tires. And then you come to America and you have zombie kids glued to their phone that just look miserable. so I think again, it's just, it goes back to frequency. It's what, what are we surrounding ourselves with? Who are we surrounding ourselves with? And yeah.

Nik: 37:03

yeah.

Sean: 37:03

Dami has a special human being that I tell him this all the time You've given me more life and more passion and purpose than I could have ever asked for it I'm just so glad that we're about to start doing some really cool things. So Yeah

Nik: 37:19

I think that's one of the coolest parts about your project and what I've seen from you, you know, cause you're one of the friends and, and artists that I opened up my phone on Instagram one day and I'm like, Oh, I haven't seen this dude in years. And, but he's like crushing it at this huge show, DJing in front of thousands of people, but where you're playing, you know, I've seen, you know, playing some, some shows in New York and stuff, but then it's like, yeah. You're in the Middle East and you're in Egypt and you're in these other countries that, are also not on maybe, uh, a lot of people's, like, touring, agenda. I think it's so rad that you've been able to break into some of these other markets, really because of seeing how that's exposing you. To the world and to these other cultures. You know, a lot of people haven't left their state or haven't left the country. You're getting to experience these other cultures. You're getting to go to Africa. You're getting to go to these other places. And so I'm really curious about how that's expanded your perspective on life and humanity in general.

Sean: 38:25

You know, what's actually funny is I was also speaking with Jay so on Monday We actually had a good nice catch up after a while and he said the average or do you know how far the average American travels? You

Nik: 38:36

How far,

Sean: 38:39

The average American in their lifetime travels 250 miles.

Nik: 38:43

wow.

Sean: 38:44

That blew me away. I didn't fact check that yet, so Jason, I hope you're right on that one.

Nik: 38:50

Yeah. But like I, you know, you hear stories about that of like kids from like inner city LA that have never been to the beach before and that shit's 10 miles away, right?

Sean: 39:02

Yeah, so I think going back to that point, the Middle East is my favorite part of the world. Hands down. And it's so wild to me how we are so programmed, especially in the States to have this idea of what Middle East is. Right. And Lebanon, best country in the world. Best. Beirut is, I get goosebumps even talking about it, because Beirut is the most special city. There's an energy there that will never be able to translate into the words I can ever share until you step foot in that city and you feel the people, You feel their culture. You feel the warm and the welcome ness. And, Egypt. Unbelievable. Unbelievable. And, also, to that point, the best crowds in the world. And why? Everyone asks, why do you think that is? Because they're really intentional with the things that they do. and their music has always been what, you know, music was made for was cathartic release. Going back to your mom of teaching dance, like these cultures, they use that as community and communion and collaboration. Like they use dance and music to bring people together. And that's why Middle East for me, is by far my favorite place in the world. It's why I basically moved to Dubai. I'm looking to buy a house in Beirut because that place just feels so present. there's presence there. You know, it's just, it's, it's hard to describe the way that these places and these people make me feel. And again, I, I think it just goes back to culture and it goes back to community. They're so rooted in community. They're so rooted in family. And I think Western world has really just kind of been separated. And, And just we're all in our own worlds and what's good for me, what's good for me, it's a lot of selfishness. And I think the Middle East is very selfless. That part is just the world has been my favorite place and if you would have asked me two years ago Once we released our first record started touring if you told me a Middle East is gonna be your biggest market I would have known what are you talking about? Look at me. How is the Middle East gonna be my biggest market? but I Feel like it honestly that I get the most love from Lebanon from Egypt even Morocco Arab culture, Middle Eastern culture is so freaking beautiful. And yeah, there's, not more incredible things I have to say. There's not one negative thing that I can say.

Nik: 41:40

yeah, dude, that's just it's so cool that you've been able to have that experience and been able to to to not only just to see it but to actually really be in it to really feel it to the point that you're even gonna yeah move out there and that's so rad, you know, I mean even it's so funny even like being born and raised in california You're a california guy as well, right? It's like You kind of grow up in this bubble and I always thought I would just stay there for the rest of my life. And so even moving to Texas was a little bit of like, Oh, like there is a bigger world out here, you know, and I'm not even that far away, let alone being like, yo, it actually is a really big world and you don't have to stay where you are. And maybe where you were planted, maybe where the stork dropped you off isn't actually. best energetic alignment for you either, you know, because I think about that as well. I remember when I first went to San Diego for college, even just being from Northern California, I remember getting off the plane and feeling the energetic frequency of that place of that region of that city and feeling I'm like, Ooh, this feels different. I actually feel like my natural My natural frequency back to sort of being the tuning fork, that certain frequency that I'm tuned to felt way more in alignment with San Diego. I was like, Ooh, this feels like home. This feels like me. And I, I don't know about you. I can always feel that though. It's like. When I go to a different place, it's like there's the culture, which also then is connected to sort of the collective consciousness, the collective frequency, like in New York. I love New York. I love the buzz and the energy of like you get off the subway and you're like, Oh, my God, I can. I can palpably feel the energy of this location. For me. That's a fun place to visit. It's not my tuning fork. It's But it's cool. And so I love that you've been able to find a place where you're like, Ooh, this actually feels more me. And so I think moral of the story here is like, yeah, everyone get out there and fucking travel. Check out some places there might be, you know, you might be living in LA because you think that's where you're supposed to be to chase your DJ dream. But you know, maybe, you know, Maybe there's a forest town in Colorado that actually makes you feel better and then makes you create better music and then actually has you, really pursue your path in your life and your dreams in a different way. It's a big world out there, so glad you're getting to experience it.

Sean: 43:59

And I'm very grateful for it. I, I definitely feel, um, one of the luckiest people in the world. alive getting to experience all these different cultures because it's only broadened my perspective And it's also made me so much more creative And just a more well rounded human being especially live after living in new york for you know, six years it's also made me a much more patient person. Interesting enough. I think this whole experience really has, because I think for a lot of artists either makes you a bit more angry because of all the things that you have to do, whether you're traveling, planes, TSA, hotels, X, Y, and Zed. But honestly, it's made me such a more patient person and just, uh, a more lover of life and the people that are in it.

Nik: 44:45

Hmm. That's so cool, man. And the reason that you are able to travel the world now, see all these places, experience all these cultures, is because you've created a really successful music and artist project that has allowed you to do that. And you've done that relatively quickly. So I'd love to talk about that. To you a little bit about the strategy that has allowed you to like, make this thing pop off. It's like, it's, it's happened really fast. I mean, you guys just got it all dialed in, obviously, you know, first and foremost, the music, just getting the music to the right place and, and you got to make great stuff. But, um, yeah. What have you done to help this project? Like scale so fast.

Sean: 45:34

I think there's a lot of pieces that go into that, right? Um, you know, having, uh, good people around you, the right team, somebody that really believes in you. You know, my manager's been incredible at building all the right relationships once the music started to go. But. I always come back to, you know, and I know everyone always says, well, now it's about content. Now it's about this. Now it's about this. Yeah, I get that. I hate content. I hate social media. I wish I never had to use it. I wouldn't use it. So I'm probably a really poor example because there's many different ways that people kind of get their name out there in a certain way. And yes, having your records being played by all big artists and getting the content and the tick to all of these things. I don't really play that game. cause for me, everything is about intention versus attention. And I think there's a really, really big difference that, you know, again, everyone has their own strategy, but my strategy has always been intention and it started with the music. And yeah, I think we had a bit different because we had, one of the biggest. And most viral records of the last, I don't know, two and a half years. And I still, every time, you know, I still get videos every weekend of other big artists playing and they're everyone's screaming, Oh, they lay in the tracks, not even playing. So I. No.

Nik: 46:53

and friends, you gotta go. Like I, I was bumping it in my car the other day, just like getting ready for the interview. And I was just like, I feel so fucking good. I feel so happy. I have the sun is shining. I just like, it just hits this part of your soul that like, if you're having a bad day, this shit will bring the smile and the sunshine back to your life. It. That's, that's my, uh, that's my little blog review for you. I'll, I'll, I'll let you continue though, but it's so fucking good, go check it out.

Sean: 47:23

I appreciate it, man. Yeah, again, I think it always comes back to creating your own lane. a lot of people are, you know, what's your biggest advice? Do it goes back to energy and frequency. Do what makes you feel the best. And sooner or later, other people are going to feel that too. Because I think if you're just trying to chase trends, which I think, you know, a lot of music is becoming, it's like, Oh, we see this doing really well, or we see that doing really well. We want to make something like this, uh, like these people and that people, I just don't think that's really going to work out very long because I think trends definitely have, uh, very shortcoming, but when you're kind of creating your own lane, um, I think that's when things become a little bit different and that's about, it's always about being unique and being innovative. And I think again, going back to having the right manager at the start of the gate that just really believes in the vision that can kind of be that person that's behind the scenes, kind of put it, pulling all the levers for shows and then making sure that you have the music really dialed in. And for me, it's not just about our music, but it's also about the stories that we're telling through the music, right? You know, Dami and LJ and Fina, I mean, they're telling beautiful stories of their own life experience, which is why I think even Odirete, you know, really captured people and they didn't even know why I was capturing people. Yes, there was that one hook that everybody could sing along and that people were really just saying all the time, just for, with their friend groups. But But at the end of the day, the message behind that record was actually why people felt it so much. It was about their stories about what their trials and tribulations of that they go through and hunting for hope and So I think There's a lot of pieces that go into it, you know, yes, I get marketing is a piece of this especially now It's becoming more important but just make intentional stuff and be intentional with all the things that you're posting. That goes with your music. That goes with who you are as a human that goes with who you choose to be on your team. Who are the ones that are really supporting you? Um, yeah, there's so many pieces, but I still, I still, still, still I'm always going to be the first person that says, if you are not making music that is completely aligned with who you are and what makes you feel the best, people aren't going to feel it either.

Nik: 49:39

Yeah. Yeah. And, I'm so glad you're bringing this up and just really hammering it home because, you know, that question where I was coming from was a little bit like, what's the strategy, right? Oh, cool. What did you guys do? X, Y and Z. And that's the question that everybody's asking and that everybody wants to know. Cool. Awesome. But the strategy doesn't fucking matter if the intention and the energy isn't there, that what is the underlying thing that's underneath it? What are you applying the strategy to? Right? Like you said, it was like, yeah, it was that, the core essence and DNA of that song was that it was coming from their heart. It was coming from their soul. The energy that they were putting into that song made that song powerful. And then therefore, okay, now a good marketing strategy. Plan and strategy can actually help move this thing. A lot of people haven't found the heart and the soul for what they're trying to put out in the first place. So that's why your strategy is probably not fucking working that well, applies to content and social media too. You know, music is really, it's one form of content. Obviously that really is the art, but when it comes to, Putting yourself out there, getting yourself out there, building the, the, the, the brand and the story of who you as are as an artist is super important to, and you've got to have that same underlying intention and energy as well. You know, I kind of joke around where I'm like, yo, me and my, Whole, you know, business and vibe is 10 percent strategy. Any sort of knowledge of what the fuck I'm actually doing. And it's 90 percent passion. It's 90 percent me just like doing me and, and, and, and pouring my energy out. I went on a little rant the other night. It was like one in the morning I'd come back from a show I got on Instagram. And I just saw a handful of people in a row. It was just seemed like everybody, anything that I scrolled across, it was just, everybody was just saying the same thing, doing the same thing, obviously following whatever template they think they're supposed to be following for what they're posting. And I was just like, yo, you guys, there is absolutely no. Heart or soul or anything here that is going to grab anybody. Like you can't just follow the strategy without actually having some substance underneath it. You know? So it applies not only to the music, it also applies to how you're putting yourself out there. And, you know, that's something that I loved about, you guys and what you were doing, even with the content that you were putting out. It was like, Really talking about the stories and the artists that you were collaborating with. And it was like, wow, this is cool. This is interesting. There's like, there's a story here. There's love here. This makes me want to follow these guys beyond just the great music that they're making, but you weren't just putting out like bullshit on your content either. You know, there was, there was like intention and love and energy behind even the content.

Sean: 52:23

Yeah, and I think authenticity will always win. will stay for a short amount of time. That's why they're called fads. But authenticity will always win. And I think that's just the ethos that I really live by. You know, it's funny because, you know, even people, You need to post more content. You need more No, I'm not going to. I'm going to post what feels good for me. If there come cool clips that I get from a show, great, I'll post it. But I don't want to be posting after every single show, unless I feel like, you know what, these records are coming out and this, wow, the crowd was just that moment. I remember it was just felt so good. Okay. I'll post that. But. Yeah, I think it just goes back to, you know, telling the right story, telling what story feels really good for you. And not just, you know, being the tick tock person who's posting three times a day, just to push, push, push, push, push, push and push and get it. Look, it works for some people. It's worked for many people. So there's many ways of doing things. I'm not going to say one right, my way is the right way, or that person's the wrong way. That's the last thing that I'm trying to say. All I'm trying to say is have awareness to what feels good for you and follow that because again it goes back to your body always knows. Your body knows when you don't want to do something and when it does. And I get it. There are going to be certain things that you have to sacrifice along the way in order to fulfill the bigger dream. But then it goes back to what is your dream and not even what is your dream. Why is that your dream? And I think so many people are seeing the artist up top on the big stage. I want to be that guy. Well, why? Why? If you get on that stage? What story are you trying to tell? What are you trying to accomplish when you're on that stage? Is it just because of fame? Is it just because you want attention? What is it right? know for me, I'm building a live show. 30 person orchestra with my whole crew. I want a gospel choir background. And why? Why do I want that? Because we're creating something that tells stories from so many different cultures that inspires other people, that makes people feel something that they haven't felt before. The amount of DMS I get after every show of just saying, I've never felt energy like that in a club before. That to me, that's my why. Because it's not just, we're partying, we're, I want to make you think about something to make you curious and I want to make you feel something that you didn't know you needed to feel. That's what music is for me.

Nik: 54:52

I also want to point out that at one point to back to your story of like, you just walked into a club in New York after you hadn't made music for six or seven years and something inside of you lit up. Yeah. Yeah. And that was like the first breadcrumb of this trail of breadcrumbs that you just started to listen to is like something in my body. There was some something was there and I and I decided to listen to it, right? And and then that opened up. Oh, wow. Now the vision is really coming to life and presenting itself. But you kind of had to listen to that first breadcrumb in the first place because you also could have just walked in there and maybe felt it and ignored it, right? And so I think so much of that is having. The self awareness of as you say, you know, your body always knows. I think a lot of people don't actually know how to listen to their body. We're oftentimes listening to everything outside of ourselves. We're listening to the voices of our parents, of our peers of what's happening on social media. You got to tune into yourself, listen to your own knowledge, inner knowing, inner feelings, like, like the fee, the feeling is the thing to listen to the most and, and to continue also. Cause I also, I think that that. A lot of people maybe maybe they start there. There also can be a time though where it gets loud And as you become successful, there are more voices and more players and even as an artist, you know in your position now You know you're touring it's like you got to keep listening to that You got to keep listening to the feeling and seeing where it might guide you um It might take you in a new direction and have the courage to do that. because that's what artists Are supposed to do Yep Yep

Sean: 56:39

way of framing it, you know, because we have to listen to what feels good, what doesn't, and have the awareness to understand when it doesn't, that you have to make course corrections of certain things, right? It's why I say no to some collaborations that could be better for me. You know, working with this big guy could have been amazing for me, but it just didn't feel good. Playing three more shows to make X, Y, and Z money would have been good for me financially, but it didn't feel good for me. So I think it just, yeah, it's a, it's a constant course correction, but also a constant tuning, you know, like we keep talking about that pitchfork to understanding when to say yes and when to say no, or when you need to make changes, right. For so many different things. Um, so yeah, it's just about staying really open to that. And it's hard when there is so much noise and there are so many, you know, as things you do get bigger now, there's so many more inputs of people telling you what you let's do this or let's do that. We should do this because of this, or we should do that because of that. And I think it's just, it's hard for an artist, especially when you're, When you are traveling so much, when you are in different time zones, when you aren't in the comfort of your own home, when you literally play in front of a thousand people for two hours, and then you go back to your hotel room and it's quiet. Like there's so many things that. So many, you know, managers, agents, any outside noise is telling you something no one will ever be able to understand those feelings. And that's why it's so important to make sure that you have a good community around you, that you can express yourself and a good coach that you could have conversations with, that you can have an unbiased perspective, because at the end of the day, everyone can say that they understand, but no one ever will. No one ever will.

Nik: 58:31

and anyone that is looking for that support, looking for someone to hold space, to help them really get in tune with their truth and that inner knowledge. Hit me up. to support. I'm also at a cool place now. I really love it. Of really it needing to be a fuck yeah for me as well. Like you said, being okay with, uh, turning things down that don't totally feel right. I'm saying no a lot more. So with that being said, it's like, yeah, my door is open. I love to support stuff when that frequency and that energy, alignment is right. You know, if someone is feeling called intuitively that like, they're ready to go. Take things to the next level. Then there gets to be a, beautiful conversation of, seeing if the alignment is there, you know, but yeah, just had a great experience with myself literally today where I was like, Oh, like this person wants to work with me and they would be down to pay me a lot of money right now. But I was like, is this a fuck? Yeah, for me. Am I, you know, how does this feel in my body? I'm like, you know what? It actually doesn't feel that way. And then the good thing is knowing that when you say no I have full trust in the universe back to divine timing. The right person is going to show up. Me saying no to that person just created space for the right person to show up into my world. Right? And so same thing as an artist. Maybe you say no to that one show. You say no to that one collaboration. Trust your body is telling you something. There's a reason it doesn't totally feel good. It doesn't totally feel like a fuck. Yeah, trust that. And I guarantee you. Better collaboration will come a better show will come that will pay you more money at like a cooler venue Like you just got a you could just got to trust that and believe that so amazing amazing Wisdom and just such a beautiful sea of depth that we can dive into together, man. I coming from playing at Papa's and beer in front of zero people, where you're at now, bro, it is so cool to see, but it's also an, you know, again, like you said, there's no one right way to do it, but just to see how it has worked out for you, how you've navigated it. And, you know, I also really love. This idea that, it really is also about who you become in the process. Like achieving your goals and dreams isn't necessarily about the results you get, but it's about who you become in the process. And just to see who you've become in the process, knowing you for a decade is really fucking cool, man. Really, really proud of you. And it's just, it's awesome to see. And I really, I know you're also still just getting warmed up, bro. You're still just getting started. So excited to see where it goes.

Sean: 1:01:15

Well, thank you, man. Like really, it does mean a lot. Kind words, especially. Yeah. You've seen from where it really began to probably never hearing me from like seven years until, Whoa, what's going on, bro? What's going on over there? So yeah, thank you man. It's um, yeah life is a it's a it's a beautiful process and you can't really skip steps I think that's the big thing and You know people can tell you everything to do but the end of the day You just gotta take ownership for yourself and not worry about pointing a finger anywhere else, but inside Uh, so yeah, thanks for a beautiful call, bro. I'm glad we finally made it happen