It's often recommended that new poultry keepers find a mentor to help them learn the ins and outs of good poultry keeping. However, rarely does anyone talk about how to be a good mentor. In this episode, Mandelyn, John, and Rip tackle that subject. They help you learn what goes into being the sort of person who can help others succeed with their birds.
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It's often recommended that new poultry keepers find a mentor to help them learn the ins and outs of good poultry keeping. However, rarely does anyone talk about how to be a good mentor. In this episode, Mandelyn, John, and Rip tackle that subject. They help you learn what goes into being the sort of person who can help others succeed with their birds.
You can email us at - poultrykeeperspodcast@gmail.com
Join our Facebook Groups:
Poultry Keepers Podcast -
https://www.facebook.com/groups/907679597724837
Poultry Keepers 360 - - https://www.facebook.com/groups/354973752688125
Poultry Breeders Nutrition - https://www.facebook.com/groups/4908798409211973
Check out the Poultry Kepers Podcast YouTube Channel -
https://www.youtube.com/@PoultryKeepersPodcast/featured
Hi, I'm Mandelyn Royal, and I would like to welcome you to another episode of the Poultry Keepers podcast. Joining me in the studio are John Gunterman and Rip Stalvey, the rest of our podcast team, and we're looking forward to visiting with you and talking poultry from feathers to function.
Rip Stalvey:How many times have you seen someone told to find themselves a mentor? Now, how many times have you seen an explanation on how to be a good mentor? I don't think I've ever seen that. So coming up, we're going to share our thoughts on how you can be a good mentor and make an impact for those in need of help. Hey, before we get started on today's episode, there's something I want to talk about. That I think is pretty cool. This episode actually marks the beginning of the second year of the Poultry Keepers Podcast. We started in June of 2023 and this is airing in June of 2024. We've covered a lot of topics in our first year. When we stop and think about it though, we've really only scratched the surface. There's a lot more to keep sharing with you folks. And Mandelyn and John and I are looking forward to the next 12 months. And we hope you'll come along with us for the ride because it's going to be fun, it's going to be educational, and you're going to enjoy it. Without further ado, let's get started on our second year right now. I guess we probably should start with some definitions. I think there's a bit of a misconception out there of what a mentor is. A lot of folks think of a mentor as a coach, which is part of it. Coach is a person who trains or instructs an individual or team. And then I've also heard a mentor described as a teacher, someone who helps others to acquire knowledge. So yeah that's part of it. But I think it goes a little more in depth than that. I think a mentor is really an experienced person that you can trust who gives you advice and help over a long period of time. It's a long term relationship. My mentor when I was getting started in Reds, He worked with me for probably 10 or 12 years, and up until just before his health deteriorated so bad, he wasn't able to do it, but I still didn't feel like I had tapped into all of his knowledge, so be in it for the long term.
Mandelyn Royal:I have a little tiny side note. Yes. Cause I realized the value of having a mentor a long time ago in a lot of different topics. Poultry obviously were a main one. And when you start developing that relationship with someone who is willing to coach you and teach you and be your mentor, as the mentee, you almost have to run with them as long as you can and really keep that relationship going, but also learn to recognize if you've maybe outgrown them and maybe you need to find a new one. And it doesn't have to be a single person. As you advance through the hobby and as you acquire your knowledge. You might have to trade up on mentors, too. Just something to keep in mind if you ever feel like you've outgrown them.
Rip Stalvey:That's a really good point.
John Gunterman:And different people have different areas of expertise.
Mandelyn Royal:Exactly.
John Gunterman:If you're looking for sustainability perspective, you'd come to me. If you're looking for meat production and stuff like that, you go to Mandy. If you're going to be showing, you talk to Rip. That's how I see us as a resource pool. I don't know anything about showing that's why I'm here is to pick Rip's brain on that. It takes a village. Nobody knows everything, but together we know a lot.
Rip Stalvey:Yes. Yes.
Mandelyn Royal:Yes. So don't feel like you have to pick just one.
Rip Stalvey:And John, you mentioned something the other day that's so important. Oh, is that my teaching is learning twice? Yes, share that with the folks
John Gunterman:listening. If you would, please. The whole concept, and my sensei, when I did martial arts, would make his senior students instruct classes, and he'd say, because teaching is learning twice. It's going to really going to highlight what you thought you knew, and didn't really know especially when the younger students or pupils are asking you, Okay, yeah, but why? Can you explain it to me in a different way? I don't quite get it. And then you've got to go back and question your own assumptions and beliefs and ways. And it's just an amazing learning process. It really is.
Mandelyn Royal:I find a lot of fun in it, personally.
John Gunterman:I love it when somebody asks me, why? And I go, I don't know. But you know what? I'm going to hit the books and we're going to find out together. We'll figure this out. To me that's mutual learning and I love that aspect of it.
Rip Stalvey:Oh I agree with you, John. I thought I knew poultry pretty good until I started Poultry Keepers 360 Facebook group and I was getting questions from people that I thought let me get back to you on that.
John Gunterman:Different environment, different part of the country, different breed, different situations. It makes you stop and think, and you really become a better poultry keeper, I think. So you can be a mentor and a mentee. You could be in the middle, and that's fine too. Sometimes, you're taking what's coming down, and you're absorbing it, and processing it, and then, I don't want to say regurgitating that, but you're applying it and then showing others. And, at each stage of this, things are going to change slightly, because everybody does things a little different. What you tell and show me, and then I go to my farm and implement may not be the exact same way because I have different challenges and different infrastructure. Exactly. But we all learn a little bit from each other, and I've noticed that around my farm. I look at things and I'm like, when did I start doing this that way? And then I think back and I'm like, oh yeah, when I saw or heard so and so tell me try this, and I did. And it mostly worked, but then I had to do this as well, and then it became my thing.
Mandelyn Royal:My favorite thing about it is. Learning something, applying it, but then learning how to make that thing work for our specific flock and our specific situation, because that's how the knowledge can grow. And then you learn those little tweaks.
John Gunterman:It's the application of the knowledge that sets it, I believe.
Mandelyn Royal:Yeah.
John Gunterman:The thinking is great, but the doing is what cements it in place.
Rip Stalvey:That's where the rubber meets the road.
John Gunterman:And whether it's going to work or not. And then you reassess and you go that didn't work out as planned. Let's noodle on this a little more.
Rip Stalvey:Mandelyn, what are some of the qualities you think a good mentor should have?
Mandelyn Royal:I've done a lot of, educating and training professionally and within hobbies and especially in chickens. And I think the main thing is the respect for diverse perspectives and being a really good people, person, and. Being really patient. And learning how to ask those qualifying questions to figure out where they already are, where they've already been, and where they're hoping to go.
Rip Stalvey:Very important. What about I know one thing that I've learned mentoring people over the years is, as a mentor, you need to be flexible because, and this is something we've touched on, but, you need to really work at understanding what that person's going through that you're helping. What their experiences are. You, you have to be flexible and not try to make them conform to exactly the way you do it.
Mandelyn Royal:Yeah, if you have that expectation, you're going to be very disappointed.
John Gunterman:Absolutely.
Rip Stalvey:John this one's for you. What about experience? How high does that rank for you in looking for a mentor?
John Gunterman:I, to me, that's pretty critical. I've in the corporate world, I've met people who are incredibly intelligent, like engineers who design products. I did customer service in between. They weren't competent to talk to customers, but they could design products. It's that translation gets lost. If you're not, and
Mandelyn Royal:having that ability to break things down into easily digestible, manageable tidbits. Yeah,
John Gunterman:yeah. Manageable chunks. Yeah. And I don't wanna say, dumb it down, but slow it down. Not everybody can hit the ground running. Is a process and it takes time. And as the birds grow the tender grows and, it's a mutually beneficial situation, hopefully.
Rip Stalvey:I think it's easy for a mentor, I know it was for me at first, to forget that my experience is certainly not the same as somebody I'm mentoring. So you, it's much easier for you to get down on their level and bring someone up than it is to expect them to start on your level. Definitely. Because that's just going to lose them big time.
John Gunterman:Managing the expectations, I think is really important. Unfortunately, I didn't have a mentor, per se, available. I went to an ag college that specialized in sustainable ag, and I learned in the field on a flock that fed the campus. That was an interesting experience and got me really hooked into poultry and the need for, sustainable foods and a food system. But it also highlighted. A lot of the failings of our industry and even in our knowledge base, what passes for knowledge on the internet, some of it's downright dangerous.
Mandelyn Royal:Yeah, I had big hopes for the internet back in 1995.
John Gunterman:Oh, yeah. But anyways. Yeah. I think a lot of it is downright dangerous. When I was in the military and we were in our senior enlisted continuum, which basically teaches you how to be a good role model to the junior enlisted, they were always stressing, know your people. Don't just know them physically, get to know them. Bring her in the office, sit down and say, no, not just how you doing, but how you doing? How's your wife? How's your kids? What's happening on the outside? Cause that's going to affect their inside performance. And same thing, know your birds. If you don't sit there and, can at least pick out five or six visually within 30 seconds and go, okay, that's this bird, I know them. It's a level of involvement and a level of intimacy that you need to have. Otherwise, I don't think you should be in the fancy.
Rip Stalvey:I agree.
John Gunterman:Because then it's just livestock and you're treating them like a commodity meat and that's not my thing at all.
Mandelyn Royal:That's not mine either because I've realized that each and every bird brings certain things to the table. And there's discrepancies within the same breed, same hatch there's just little tiny differences in there. And that's what you have to learn to recognize to figure out who you're going to breed forward from or not. And I've been in the position a couple of times now where. People reach out to me with some very lofty flop goals and they're gonna make so much money on this new business. And then that's where honesty comes into play, where you have to explain whoa, these aren't cookie cutter stamped manufactured products. Each one is different than the next and you have to go through each one and figure out if they're gonna help you out or not. In your program, because you can ruin the work of a good breeder in as little as one generation, three generations. If you stray off and do things very differently away from the norms, you might not find the success that you were after, and then your enthusiasm is just going to fall apart. You're going to drop out and not be a part of it anymore.
John Gunterman:Well, a lot of that falls back on what I call building rapport with your customer, with your mentee, whoever it is, the trust and, being an active listener and, being is encouraging. Without being too rigid as you can.
Rip Stalvey:I was thinking, go ahead, John. Yeah,
John Gunterman:Just really listening to the people and you touched on identifying their goals and their plans and keeping them grounded and in the real moment.
Rip Stalvey:Another aspect of honesty is you need to be willing to tell your mentor or your mentee what they need to hear, not what they want to hear. We've, and we've all seen this on the Facebook groups, somebody posts a picture of a bird and what do you think? Nobody seems to want to hurt somebody's feelings, especially newcomers. So they say, oh nice bird, he's pretty. Always something positive, when in reality, the bird is not really all that good, but nobody will speak up and tell someone that. And that's why you as a mentor have to be willing to tell someone that, and you have to know that you may make them completely mad with you, but you're not doing them any service and you're not doing the breed they're working with any service, if they have a poor looking bird, then tell them, oh, that's a great bird, yeah, I'd use him, yeah,
John Gunterman:but part of that comes with Handling the bird and having that person handle the bird and having a copy of the standard of perfection or whatever the standard for that bird is, and having them understand why that bird's not a quality candidate for breeding.
Mandelyn Royal:Yeah, because I've seen people who will rip a bird apart based off of a picture and they don't explain why. Why is that trait not desirable? They just rip it apart and leave that sit there in all of its negativity without any kind of positive anything to it.
John Gunterman:If there's, you gotta be honest. Some people are too honest.
Rip Stalvey:But, if you're gonna tell somebody, This is not right with your bird. Don't go on to something else, tell them why it's not right. Tell them what they can do to try to improve on that.
Mandelyn Royal:Because sometimes breeding work and finding the appropriate mate for that bird can fix what's wrong in the offspring, and they'll come out better. Because I've used some birds that some people were giving me some grief about, like, why are you using that one? And I'm like I need this trait, and this trait, and I have this other bird over here that doesn't have those same problems. And then I sort through the offspring, and then I find the better ones. It's not going to be all of them by any means, but I only need one good one, technically.
Rip Stalvey:Birds like you're talking about using there Mandelyn. My mentor used to call his parts birds.
Mandelyn Royal:Yeah, parts birds.
Rip Stalvey:He kept a pen of birds, a pen of females and a pen of males that you look at them, you say, why in the world did he keep that bird? And I ask him that sometimes. He said that female over there has got a nice long back. Yeah, her legs are too short and color's not quite right, but she'll put good backs on the birds, on her chicks, or that bird's got a really nice tail. It's not too long. It's not too short, nice curve on the sickles. So you got to know when you need a parts bird and hopefully you've got a parts bird to go to that'll be able to help you out.
John Gunterman:And that's, I think that falls into line with that providing corrective feedback aspect of evaluating a bird and saying this bird is lacking in these characteristics, but this bird has them. So perhaps they're close enough to compensate for each other. We did touch on compensation mating. You, Just to reiterate, don't, two traits that are widely different. You want them close enough to gradually make changes. And that, that could be inspiring to the mentee, get them involved. Say, okay you know what, let's do a test hatch. We'll put this rooster with this hen and see what they throw. See if the problem gets better or worse. And you touch on
Mandelyn Royal:that one. That's just right. Off you go into the next generation and now they're even better than they were.
Rip Stalvey:That's right. But John, you touched on something and I could even hear it in your voice. And that's the importance of enthusiasm and a positive attitude. If you've got a mentor that's Not enthusiastic, and he's a woe is me type person. I don't think I could ask someone like that to mentor me. I don't want them to be so positive that they gloss over things. That's not what I'm talking about. But if their just attitude in general is a negative attitude, that's not the person you want working with you.
John Gunterman:I look at these things as opportunities for improvement.
Mandelyn Royal:It seems to really help that you find someone who not only shares your flock goals, but you can get along as friends too, to some extent. Yeah. Like a temperament match of the people too.
John Gunterman:That brings up something else that's really important is sometimes it may not be a good fit, people, you network with the people in the hobby or fancy, and you'd be a good liaison. If you're not a good mentor or mentee, you can recommend somebody who might fit better.
Rip Stalvey:Exactly right. Sometimes it's not who you know, it's who you know that knows the person.
John Gunterman:If somebody comes asking questions about Rhode Island Reds, I don't know, send them to Rip.
Rip Stalvey:One thing that I place a high value on when looking for a mentor is They don't keep secrets. If they know something, they'll share it with you. And where I'm coming to on this is that so many people who show poultry, and I'll use them as an example, I'll pick on my show, show friends. I know some that would not tell you for a minute how they condition their birds. They don't want you knowing what they know. You can't be like that and help somebody. You just can't.
Mandelyn Royal:And the vibe that newcomers have when they encounter that, it turns them off.
Rip Stalvey:Sure it does.
Mandelyn Royal:And to me, from the show perspective, I don't show much at all. But I used to show dogs and dabbled in some horses and stuff like that. And when you are so rigid and you don't help the new people willing to come in, it's gonna shrink how many people are involved over time. You And when you go and you win, do you want the best bird out of ten, or do you want to be the best bird out of a hundred? But if you block people or otherwise put A negative experience to the beginners, you're very quickly going to have just 10 entries to beat, and not that bigger pull that really helps a good bird shine. It's better for your own if you're after the win, you want the big wins, because that's what really means something. The bigger the pull, the better. And the better they perform, the better that bird is.
John Gunterman:In the show world, do they account for that in the size of the show when they award points to a breeder? I know there's some national ranking system.
Rip Stalvey:It's how many birds you beat to attain the points for that. Like a class champion, how many birds did he have to beat? To become class champion. So yeah, in a sense, the size of the show has an impact. So
John Gunterman:that is weighted in some way on the numbers.
Rip Stalvey:But golly bum I can honestly say, and I know I'm not the most competitive person in the world. I like to win the show. Don't misunderstand me. But it wasn't the all consuming important thing for me about, Showing poultry. What was far more important for me was being able to breed a good bird, to be able to condition a good bird. And I knew if I had bred the best bird, I knew how to, and I conditioned it the best I knew how to. If I won, oh, wonderful, hand me the ribbon. If I didn't win, so what? I wish that person had won well. That just means that he was doing things a little bit better, one way or another, than I was. I can't be mad at him. I can only be upset and mad with me. No secrets, folks.
John Gunterman:What about these people that just put mean birds in a show and sit there and snicker when the judges try to examine them?
Rip Stalvey:Honestly, what I do, or what I did, I'm not judging anymore, but if I had a mean bird, I just wrote mean on the tag, it kept going, he did not get judged. I'm
Mandelyn Royal:That's a good idea.
John Gunterman:We never tolerate aggression. Oh, so why would we show a mean bird?
Rip Stalvey:Oh, some folks, I did, I was judging the show up in South Carolina one time and a guy had some large fowl, old English games. Okay. And I thought, Oh, they just look like they'd like to grab you. And then I looked up on top of the cage. And he had left some gloves, long leather gloves. Very nice. And he, when I started going down to judge that class, he said, Use those gloves if you want to, I won't be upset.
Mandelyn Royal:Now that's a nice consideration. And with
John Gunterman:a game foul, that's not inappropriate. Oh.
Mandelyn Royal:I don't know. When I had games, they were people friendly as all get out. It was just bird against bird where they were a little temperamental and I couldn't just have them running with everybody. But with me, they were great.
John Gunterman:My brief experience was they don't like strangers. They're fine on the farm, but somebody new or something new comes to the farm and they get.
Yeah,
Mandelyn Royal:oh, yeah, they're almost like having guard geese. Yeah, I had one my dad started a chainsaw up at 20 feet away from One of the pullets, and as soon as she heard that noise coming out of nowhere, she shot 40 feet straight up into a tree, and then screamed her head off all afternoon about it.
John Gunterman:And I've seen bantams that would charge a running chainsaw and try and fight it.
Rip Stalvey:Yeah, the bantams have some of the worst attitudes in the world sometimes.
Mandelyn Royal:Chihuahua syndrome.
Rip Stalvey:Okay, we're digressing here. Oh, yeah.
John Gunterman:That's what makes the show interesting.
Rip Stalvey:That's right. John, what are some of the core skills mentors should use? What do you think?
John Gunterman:I don't know. I, to me, it really comes back to getting to know your mentee well and being open to understanding them and their birds in their environment. I've got almost erase, my preconceptions on how to raise. A bird, when I go to somebody else's property, because it completely changes. They're naturally going to do things differently, and I need to be receptive to that.
Rip Stalvey:I think we need to be, as a mentor, we need to practice active listening. Listen to what they're saying, because sometimes what you think you hear them saying is not what they're asking.
John Gunterman:Just, learn what makes them tick. Ask them what their challenges are and what they have been. And getting to know how somebody thinks and how they troubleshoot through problems is a good way to get to know them. So you know, what were your challenges last year? What did you do? And it gives you a good base. Base level, start building from as well.
Mandelyn Royal:And sometimes you have to ask a lot of questions to really get to the things that they never even thought to tell you.
Rip Stalvey:Yes.
Mandelyn Royal:Cause something they consider trivial could actually be what the problem is.
Yeah,
Rip Stalvey:What about we talked about identifying goals and plans with them, but I think as a good mentor, you have to be able to earn their trust and respect because if they don't trust you, they don't respect you. No matter how good the advice you share with somebody, it's going to go in one ear and straight out the other one.
John Gunterman:And ultimately it's going to be frustrating for everybody involved. Again, building rapport and you're empowering your mentee.
Rip Stalvey:I think and, Mandelyn, you got to it, you didn't get to it. You got to this, but you didn't really say it this way. But, when someone asks you a question or shows you a picture, don't just tell them, I don't like this, or that's not right. Tell them why. What you're doing is providing them with corrective. If they understand why a bird is not right, or why this is not right about a bird, why that's not right about a bird, then they can understand, and they're more likely to work towards taking your advice and correcting the problem later on down the road.
Mandelyn Royal:Yeah, and it just gets tricky if it's a bird that they love bunches and
Rip Stalvey:sure it is That's where
Mandelyn Royal:that honesty comes right back at play. Yes
John Gunterman:Yes, you develop an emotional and or a financial attachment to a particular bird or set of birds and you know I've been there. We've all been there.
Mandelyn Royal:Oh that financial attachment can be rude There's been a handful of times where I laid out some serious money on some birds that didn't do Anything for me all the way into nothing hatched over a two year period.
Sure. And I tried
Mandelyn Royal:everything. I tried to force it and there just was no making their eggs hatch at all.
John Gunterman:And that's how a lot of mentees end up, at your doorstep, so to speak, is they've had some frustration and they've read advice on the internet and it's not working out for them. And hopefully, they were at the feed store or the general store getting coffee in the morning and somebody said, Hey, you know what? You should go talk to this person. They've been raising birds for a while in our neighborhood. That's really the best way. Yeah.
Mandelyn Royal:Yeah. And keeping it local helps a lot too. The mentoring remotely, there's more challenges to that because it's. For example, I'm not able to go put my hands on the birds, I'm not able to evaluate their living situation. Having that in person contact is a lot more valuable than relying on pictures and videos and
John Gunterman:For sure. But we live in the modern internet age, and this is our medium of communication, so we'll make the best of it.
Mandelyn Royal:Yeah, we're trying.
Rip Stalvey:I think one thing I would want from a mentor is I would want them to really inspire me. And I was so fortunate working with Mr. Reese is he would inspire me, he would push me, but he did it out of kindness and out of wanting me to succeed and do better. I thought one of the things he did that most inspired me was, I'd known him about seven or eight years at this point. And I saw him at a show in I think it was in Baxley, Georgia. I, that may be wrong, but he called me over to the side. He said, I want to tell you something. And I could tell it was going to be a serious conversation. And he looked me square in the eyes and he said, I don't want to ever beat you again at another show. And I thought, wow. To have him tell me that, it inspired me. It scared the heck out of me, to be honest with you, the first time he said that.
Mandelyn Royal:Yeah, no pressure.
John Gunterman:Yeah, but that's so empowering, because Oh, it was. The person who Meant the most to you at the time said, you're ready. You're better than me. Go.
Mandelyn Royal:This brings us to the close of another Poultry Keepers podcast, and we're very happy you chose to join us. Until next time, we'd appreciate it if you would drop us a note, letting us know your thoughts about our podcast. Please share our podcast with all of your friends that keep poultry, and we hope you'll join us again when we'll be talking poultry from feathers to function.