Episode 46: Championing the Fight for Early Detection & Survivorship with Melissa & Alli

Imagine receiving a life-altering diagnosis when you least expect it. That's exactly what happened to school teacher Melissa Pruyn & outdoor enthusiast Alli Nagel, our courageous guests this season on Test Those Breasts. Together, we traverse their emotional and physical journeys, shedding light on the unpredictable nature of breast cancer & the critical role of early detection. These powerful narratives defy the myths & emphasize the reality: health-conscious living is no guaranteed shield against this disease. We open up about our personal battles and & moments that define our survivorship, fostering a space where knowledge & vigilance become the cornerstones of our collective health.

As we peel back the layers of breast cancer awareness and education, we're reminded by Melissa's story of the jarring collision between everyday life and the advent of cancer. From the scramble to manage surgery and work to the silent toll it takes on one's spirit, these stories serve as a beacon for the unacquainted, stressing the importance of preparedness and the empowering effects of shared experiences. We're not just recounting tales of survival but crafting a roadmap of resilience and hope, where every listener is called to become an advocate for their well-being and the early detection that can save lives.

Contact Alli Nagel:

Email: E-Mail Alli Nagel 

Instagram:Alli Nagel on Instagram 

Resources:

Cancer Community Clubhouse

Mountain Pose Yoga 

Mom's On The Run 

Are you loving the Test Those Breasts! Podcast? You can show your support by donating to the Test Those Breasts Nonprofit @ https://testthosebreasts.org/donate/

Where to find Jamie:
Instagram LinkedIn TikTok Test Those Breasts Facebook Group LinkTree
Jamie Vaughn in the News!

Thanks for listening!
I would appreciate your rating and review where you listen to podcasts!

I am not a doctor and not all information in this podcast comes from qualified healthcare providers, therefore may not constitute medical advice. For personalized medical advice, you should reach out to one of the qualified healthcare providers interviewed on this podcast and/or seek medical advice from your own providers .

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:01

Welcome to season two of Test those Breasts podcast. I am your host, jamie Vaughan. I am really excited to continue this journey and mission into 2024 to help shorten the overwhelming learning curve for those who are newly diagnosed, or yet to be diagnosed, with breast cancer. It has been such an honor and a privilege to be able to connect and interview many survivors, caregivers, oncologists, surgeons, nurses, therapists, advocates and more, in order to provide much needed holistic guidance for our breast cancer community. Breast cancer has become such an epidemic, so the more empowered we are, the better. By listening, rating, reviewing and sharing this podcast, it truly does help bring in more listeners from all over the world. I appreciate your help in spreading this knowledge. My episodes are released weekly on Apple, spotify and other platforms. Now let's listen to this next episode of Test those Breasts. Hello friends, hey, welcome back to this episode of Test those Breasts. I am your host, jamie Vaughan, and again, this is season two. I'm so excited to have some amazing guests on this season.

Speaker 1: 1:19

I've actually been trying to get to interview my two guests that I have today. We've had to postpone a couple of times, but we are finally getting on with this, and so my first guest is a friend of mine that I've had because I worked with her. She is a school teacher and she is Melissa Prine, and Melissa was diagnosed with invasive ductal carcinoma breast cancer in 2018 in the left breast. This was found through a routine mammogram and follow-up ultrasound and biopsy. Because of early detection, it was stage 1A and required only surgery and radiation. And my next guest is Allie Nagel, and she is a breast cancer survivor. I actually met her. She reached out to me. We go to the same yoga studio and so does Melissa, so we all go to the same yoga studio together. And Allie reached out to me. She had caught wind of my podcast at the yoga studio and I got to know her at Coffey and I was so happy to meet her. She is a native Nevadan and lives in Reno, nevada, and she enjoys spending time outdoors and is passionate about trail running, nordic skiing and cycling. And she is a tax accountant and has worked in public accounting for 15 years.

Speaker 1: 2:34

Well, melissa and Allie, I just appreciate your being here. You know to tell your story. I've had such a pleasure meeting so many different survivors and everyone's story. You know we can all agree that we have a lot in common, obviously, but we also have very different stories in A how we found out we had breast cancer and sort of where that has taken us today into survivorship. So welcome, welcome, welcome.

Speaker 1: 3:03

How are you guys doing? How are you doing, allie? Allie, great Good. You went skiing today. You went cross-country skiing and so I do hope you guys know that and you look great. By the way, I do video these and they do go on YouTube, and so people seem to really be liking that so they can listen or watch. So that's really cool. And, melissa, how are you doing? Friend? Doing good. It's great to see you, jamie, thank you. We all look pretty healthy and happy. We have a wonderful sunny day here in Reno today, which is finally. So I want to talk about number one. I'm going to start with Melissa and I started working with each other in 2018. 17. And I think it was 2018. 17. And then the following year, 2018, before kids even started coming back to school. We were at school at some trainings. Melissa got a phone call and it was breast cancer. But before we get into that diagnosis, melissa, can you explain to our audience who were you before breast cancer?

Speaker 2: 4:09

Well, I'm still trying to be this person, but I'm super active outdoorsy and had great energy and was very positive. I ate healthy. I had none of the like. Oh, that's why I got breast cancer. I was completely questioning why would I get breast cancer? I exercise, I eat healthy, I don't drink very much, you know all of those things. There's no genetic makeup, I found out later. So really a pretty positive person and had no fear of those type of long-term illnesses whatsoever. Right?

Speaker 1: 4:50

You're also, and still are, very hardworking. You know, we worked really hard as teachers and there was just so much on our plate. And I do remember, when I finally came out with my diagnosis, one of the comments several comments were like oh my God, jamie, but you were so healthy, and it just confused me because I was like I am healthy. So we found out a lot about that afterwards. Ali, how about you? Who were you before breast cancer? Before breast cancer?

Speaker 3: 5:19

I knew nothing about cancer of any form, let alone breast cancer, and I had very little experience with the medical system and how that even worked. I was incredibly active and had been working on strength training and running and just pursuing my athletic endeavors and also really focused on my nutrition even before.

Speaker 1: 5:50

So we were all healthy, yeah, really healthy. Yeah, mind, body and soul. We were active, we ate right and all the things. Yeah, so I'm 56 years old. I was 54 when I was diagnosed. Melissa, how old were you?

Speaker 2: 6:03

I am 56. You and I are the same age, so I was 51 when I was diagnosed.

Speaker 3: 6:10

Okay, and how about you, Ali? I was diagnosed when I was 49.

Speaker 1: 6:14

Okay, all right. Yeah, so kind of in the same sort of five-year span of time from each other. Okay, ali, what was your diagnosis, how did you find out and what were your treatments like?

Speaker 3: 6:30

Sure. So I was diagnosed in May of 2023 with stage 1a invasive ductal carcinoma, was estrogen and progesterone positive and her two negative, and, and I did genetic testing and I don't have any of the Breca one or two genes. So my treatment was first, initially, was surgery to remove the tumors and some lymph nodes, and then I proceeded with radiation and Then the next step is an estrogen blocker for five years to keep that from Hopefully keep it from coming back.

Speaker 1: 7:11

Okay, you found out in a very strange way. You're looking back, you're like holy moly, how did?

Speaker 3: 7:16

that happen, yeah. So, as I mentioned, I knew very little about cancer, let alone breast cancer, so this was completely off my radar.

Speaker 3: 7:26

The plan was that I was doing annual, or I was doing a mammogram every two years, kind of starting at age 40 and then when I turn 50, that I would, you know, change to every year and so Then, if we think about it, when I was 49, it was an odd year I happened to have a mammogram because I Just got really overzealous with scheduling medical appointments and didn't really realize that this was kind of my off year.

Speaker 3: 7:57

But I went ahead and scheduled it and went through with it. Wow was really fortunate because this did not show up on a mammogram in 2022 and boom, 2023. It, you know, spirals into sort of the callback Wow, we need to look at this one more time to make sure that x-ray was right. Then, okay, now we need to do a biopsy because we think we found something. And then you get that phone call that we all know, yeah, and so, yeah, so I mean, wow, what an incredible thing and so it's not even that you felt something, it's not even that you had any inkling, any kind of intuition about something.

Speaker 1: 8:41

For me I did, you know. I felt burning sensations and stinging sensations. Throughout the few months prior in my mind I was like huh, what's that? And then I actually did end up feeling a lump, but my breasts were always lumpy because I have dense breast tissue. But this one felt different. And so for me, I knew I was gonna get a mammogram and I was reminded, but you didn't have any inkling and it's just like it was like the stars aligned for you and Sort of led you to that, to just saying, okay, I'll just go anyway. Right, that is insane, melissa. How about you? What were your circumstances?

Speaker 2: 9:21

You know I know this is why you're interviewing us together as well but Ali and I have very similar stories. I Was old enough and I have been doing mammograms since I was about 35. After I finished breastfeeding my twins, I had my first lump, so at 35, and so I've been having mammograms yearly since then and I've had multiple biopsies. But in 2017, which is when we started working together had my normal mammogram Everything's fine. The next year, and I had had many ultrasounds and all that kind of stuff the next year, just like Ali, they're like oh, some things on here on just a regular mammogram screening. They did the ultrasound right then and there because they always prepare that for me, because I've had so many, like you, jamie, I've got that dense breast tissue. They might not be a lot of them, but they're dense. So you know it's like so we've got that dense breast tissue. Ultrasounds are the best way to really check things out. Well, my lump I never felt, even when I was diagnosed, because it was way down by my chest wall, but a regular screening mammogram found it. Like Ali, I had to go back in and get the biopsy. I was still in complete denial and being like no, I'm fine, I've had a, done a biopsies, I'm gonna be totally fine. And Then I wasn't. And, as you said, jamie, you and I read our training.

Speaker 2: 10:45

It was the first day of school for teachers and I got the phone call. I didn't take it, I stepped back out during a break, called him back because I'm like, oh, he's just gonna tell me no worries. He was like I'm really sorry to tell you, but it's invasive ductile carcinoma. I'm like what? Wait a minute, I've got to go write this down. And ran to my classroom, sat down, did the whole thing, and then, as you know, jamie, you and my teaching team were some of the first people I told because I'm like I have to leave, I have to go home, I need to go talk to my husband and my kids, to my girls, and so then I told them that evening. But that was how I found out. So my big push on this is get those yearly mammograms. They're not gonna hurt you, they are going to potentially save your life. They did for Ali, they did for me, and they can find even small tumors with them.

Speaker 1: 11:39

Right. I often think to myself. You know, I had a mammogram a little bit less than a year prior to when I found out about the breast cancer. I wasn't supposed to get a mammogram until three weeks after my retirement party, Mila, says you know, I had a huge retirement party.

Speaker 1: 11:55

I was so excited, and about two days prior to that I think it was is when I got a little ping on my phone that says, hey, time to schedule your mammogram. I'm like okay. So I was sitting right out front of our house having a beer with my husband and I picked up the phone and I made an appointment and they asked, just like they always do do you feel anything different? Do you feel any lumps, any sensations or whatever? I'm like nah, nah, I just said no because I Thought to myself in my mind. Number one I was excited about the party, and so I had so many other things on my mind, but at the same time I also knew that I was going to be coming in in three weeks to get my mammogram, and if they found something, then they would find something right. And so I hung up the phone and my husband said that's not true. You do have a lump, and you had me feel it. And you did say that you had sensations. And I'm like, right, how stupid of me. So I picked up the phone and I said, yeah, apparently that's not true. And so they actually moved my mammogram up by three weeks and I went in and got that mammogram.

Speaker 1: 13:02

I think it was two or three days after my big retirement party and that is when I found out that it was 95% chance or more that it was breast cancer and then by that Friday I had a biopsy and by that Saturday I found out. So I often wonder they didn't appear to see anything the year before. I often wonder because by the time they found it it was five centimeters and so I was stage two. Ultimately I found out I was stage two because it hadn't gone to my lymph nodes and things like that. But we're all.

Speaker 1: 13:33

This big message is early detection, right, ali, you're a pretty quiet person. You are not really out there talking a lot like I'm a big mouth about it. So, as you know, I've got a podcast and it's all about test those breasts. You know Early detection and you found out about the podcast through Mountain Pose Yoga. I'm just wondering I know this isn't really one of the questions, but we've talked about this before what went through your mind when you heard some of the episodes and then you reached out to me. Just explain why you reached out to me and what is it that resonated with you?

Speaker 3: 14:09

I think I wanted to reach out to you, to you know, first of all, say how thankful I was for just this wealth of knowledge because, as I mentioned, I knew nothing about this and I didn't really know anyone to talk to about or what to expect or how does this all work. So just what's resonated with your podcast is the wealth of education and sort of knowledge from not reading a book or reading online. I really connect with kind of the visual or the sound or these first hand experiences of people talking about well, this is how it worked, yeah. So I think that's a really beautiful way to communicate some really important things about, like getting a mammogram and how does this all work and what does that mean if you find it early, right, what does it mean if you find it five years later?

Speaker 1: 15:09

I felt like I knew a lot about breast cancer because I had friends. Melissa had breast cancer. I learned a lot from her. I knew other people who had had breast cancer but I didn't realize how much I didn't know, and obviously I mean you know more when you've experienced it. But at some point in my journey I got angry a few times because of things that I was not told my options or getting second opinions and things like that and at some point in time I was like, okay, I need to be part of something bigger here. I need to gather as many stories as I possibly can to help other people. So I'm like how do I save the world? Who's my audience going to be when we talk about testing those breasts?

Speaker 1: 15:53

Some of the audience that I'm actually after are people who've never even been diagnosed, like you, ali, not even thinking about anything. You didn't know anything. It wasn't even on your rate, I mean, it wasn't on any of our radars, but they kind of were. We were getting mammograms, but how do I reach people that have never ever even been diagnosed to help them kind of be more prepared when they do get that dreaded call and the importance of early detection? So I'm just really glad that you did reach out to me.

Speaker 1: 16:24

That made my heart very happy that I actually reached someone, and I love getting those phone calls. I love getting text messages and emails from people letting me know that they ran across it, because that is how I know that it's helping, and it has everything to do with people like you telling your story. So I really appreciate you being part of the podcast, because this is your show too. Melissa, I wanted to ask you what was so shocking about your diagnosis as far as timing, because, as you said, it was early detection. But how was it shocking to you, in that what you knew before didn't know before, versus what you know and knew afterwards when you found out?

Speaker 2: 17:10

I think what was shocking is that I actually had cancer. I had had so many mammograms and ultrasounds and biopsies and been fine, I exercise, I eat healthy, I take care of myself. You know not that that means that you can't get cancer, but I kind of felt like that would help me not get cancer. That's kind of my protection, and no one in my family had breast cancer so I felt like things were pretty good. So it was very shocking that I even had cancer and then for it to be the first day of school was awful.

Speaker 2: 17:48

Anyone who's a teacher out there knows the first month of school is the roughest and just the thought of the unknown. Once I finally got my diagnosis I was like, okay, this is not worst case scenario, I can do this. But I had. This was the second week in August. First week in August when teachers are back, I guess was first week in August. I had surgery the last week in August so to get my kids and Jamie and I you know we taught next door to each other middle school gifted students and luckily, some of the kids I'd had the year before because they roll up. But I had three weeks to get organized, to get a month's worth of sub plans in place and get them ready to go, while trying not to be stressed because yeah, you've got cancer. So just all of the timing on it, but also being thankful that they found it and found it so early.

Speaker 1: 18:44

Right, right, is it true that possibly all three of us might have been thinking in our minds that breast cancer is something that happens to other people? Definitely, I mean, that's what I thought, even though I knew people with breast cancer. I even had a friend of mine tell me that her surgeon said that it's not a matter of if you're gonna get breast cancer, it's a matter of when, because we do know that one in eight women get breast cancer sometime in their life and if you live long enough, something's gonna happen. Right, but still in my mind, I thought to myself okay, I have always taken care of my gynecological health and always have gone like clockwork to get mammograms. I've had two lumpctomies. They've both been benign. And so I just thought in my head yeah, that's what happens to other people For some reason, and it is so different in my survivorship, I am like that was completely and utterly wrong.

Speaker 1: 19:45

So, but being healthy too, you know, just really trying to eat right. And I often think to myself what does stress have to do with it? Stress and trauma, because I know that as teachers, we're very, very stressed all the time. I mean, I'm not stressed anymore because I'm retired and you're going to get there, but I was stressful and I think that that plays a huge role sometimes in your body being open to being struck with cancer, and we do know a lot of teachers who have breast cancer it's kind of freaky.

Speaker 1: 20:15

Is there anything shocking that you thought Allie when you were diagnosed?

Speaker 3: 20:22

I mean I just think the most shocking thing was just that this was just not anything I'd even thought about. The whole thing was shocking. Yeah, the whole thing. I wasn't something I'd ever like paid very much attention to or knew very much about, and so it was just like wow. And I think the other thing that kind of like I continued to hear the I always felt like in the background associated with breast cancer diagnosis it has to do with, like this family history. Oh well, do you have a family history? And so like I have no family history, so, oh, I must be good, but that isn't true. Yeah, the family history is really only like one in eight women have a family history, so that's a pretty low ratio, and so I think we should take that out of the dialogue. I mean, yes, if you have a family history, you have higher risk and you need to do other things, but I think that sort of removes like our cognizance of what the issue is here.

Speaker 1: 21:27

So I completely agree with you because we do know that more people get breast cancer that don't even have it in their family. When we have that as part of the conversation, if you do know that you have it in your family, obviously there are things that you can do to. I have a few pre-viver friends of what we call them. I've had friends get mastectomies and reconstruction just to sort of remove that part of it, but I was under the same impression that I didn't have it in my family, so I just didn't think anything of it. And unfortunately, some of the people that I have interviewed have been very young late 20s into their 30s and they had a hard time getting their provider and they didn't have a family history. But they had a hard time getting their provider to allow them to get a mammogram or an ultrasound, even though they felt that something was wrong, like they had an inverted nipple or something was going on that they felt in their intuition kicked in. But they had a hard time getting approved, and so we need to change the narrative on that. As far as allowing younger people to get those mammograms, I mean my own philosophy. I feel like anyone should be able to go in and get a scan at any given time if they're feeling something. But that's such a good point because that is shocking. It was shocking to me because I didn't have it in my family and I did not know before cancer that what the statistics were, that so many more people get it when they don't even have it in their family. So thank you for bringing that up.

Speaker 1: 22:57

So let's talk a bit about survivorship. We've talked a little bit about how our perspective has changed in our survivorship. You know we all agree that early detection for me, listen to your body. I should have listened to my body three months prior when I started feeling burning sensations and things like that in my breasts, and I should have gone directly to the doctor when I felt that lump that didn't feel Like the other lumps I had felt. So I really kind of beat myself up a bit about that. It is what it is. So I always try to encourage people to listen to the body, not be a hypochondriac or anything like that, but go in and get it checked and question right, Are there any different perspectives? Do you talk to other Survivors or other people who have just been diagnosed? You talked to your friends, Ali, you know that have never been diagnosed yet.

Speaker 3: 23:54

Yeah, I think that that's been one of the things that, in the event that I have shared with friends or acquaintances about my diagnosis and treatment in less than this past year is that's the first thing you know. That I'm kind of saying is like Are you getting your annual mammograms and are you doing it every year? Because, yes, I did end up having breast cancer, but we found it early. And big picture, what does that mean for my life? Okay, well, yeah, the had not advanced into a stage that was more advanced or bad situation, and so that just means that my Life expectancy and treatment was just easier. Yeah, yeah, and so that's my big message.

Speaker 1: 24:48

And had you waited for another year, that would have been a totally different story, right? I mean who?

Speaker 3: 24:54

knows what it could have progressed in a year. How much worse treatment could have been.

Speaker 1: 25:00

Right, right, yeah, I mean I had to go bald and everything I mean, and I was thinking that I was taking care of myself pretty well and that if anyone, I would have been One to catch it really early. And in retrospect I did. It wasn't three and four wasn't in my lymph nodes or anything like that. Had I waited three weeks more To go into the original appointment, that might have looked like a different story because apparently mine was pretty rapid growing. And so, yeah, melissa, how about you? What do you do in your survivorship? To kind of keep people educated, keep yourself educated and to keep your wits about you. I know that you went through B2B and you can explain that as well. What is it that your survivorship looks like?

Speaker 2: 25:45

So I Was done treatment in the fall of 2018 and 2019. That's when I did B2B, which is breast cancer, to bikini and Met an amazing group of women. We work out through a voc gym. The B2B program died out kind of during COVID and our trainer, mena, kind of broke apart from the B2B Program and created her own program called warriors, and Ali and I both work out at evoke. She hasn't done this program, but I did the precursor to warriors. Warriors is very similar and I highly recommend it, but it's for men and women with all types of cancer. But what was unique about B2B is that we 20 women trained together, got to be very close and Everyone went up on stage in a bikini. Some of us competed and I was one of those that competed. I Think the new warrior program is even healthier because people just they still go up on stage, but they go up on stage and an outfit they pick for themselves and it's more about a healthy lifestyle Afterwards and healthy life overall. Bikini competitions are tough. You remember all the food I did and all that they're still doing food, but it's not quite as intense. It was a great experience and a couple of the women that I still work out with to this day at evoke and have done a competition again and my friend Amber's training for a competition coming up in May, so they having fun with it. I just looked at it as a way to take my life back and and become fit and healthy again.

Speaker 2: 27:25

Many people don't have any problems with radiation. I don't know how it was for you, ali, but I got very sick. I worked through almost the entire treatment. I had to take a few sick days here and there, but I was just physically Exhausted and drawn and so once I was done treatment and recovered, I thought this would be a great way to do it, and it was. And I have a group of women that we can talk about anything, because Breast cancer leads to so many different things. So you're like, okay, well, let's talk sex after breast cancer, let's talk, right, all that, how your body changes. Oh, are you on this drug or this drug or you know? So we talk about the different types of things that we're taking, different types of things we're doing for our bodies, and Sometimes we get yelled at during workouts because we're chatting a lot, but it's a great surprise, surprise.

Speaker 1: 28:18

That brings me to something else. I really try to help any cancer patient, no matter what is, to plug yourself in to the community. Plug yourself into, even if it's a small group of women or whoever, so that you can talk about these things and you bring up a really interesting topic about Intimacy after breast cancer. That is a huge topic and I'm actually going to be interviewing someone about that in A couple of weeks. We had a conversation yesterday and it's gonna be a good one because before breast cancer my husband and I have always been intimate and it's always been a huge part of our lives.

Speaker 1: 28:57

I remember before I was diagnosed one day it really really hurt bad and I wonder if that was because I may have been going through menopause and Breast cancer may have pushed me into menopause, but I was so shocked at the pain. And After I got finished with the whole treatment and my breast surgery and all of that, I went to a new gynecologist and she said that you know, things can change, especially when you're our age and it is menopause season. I guess it's the season of our lives, right, but it's really important to see a gynecologist who understands that Gynecological health for and that spills over into intimacy in your personal life. She cured me, she was able to help me, and so I thank her and I'm definitely gonna have her Interview on here too, because that is a topic that is, you know, sometimes hush hush. I don't hush hush it, I'm pretty open about talking about that. So hopefully everybody is okay with that. But so plugging yourself into a community, even like cancer community clubhouse here in Reno, has been very helpful for a lot of people, just getting together for coffees or sound baths and bingo night, just to be around those people, because those are the people that understand what we've gone through.

Speaker 1: 30:18

Sometimes people out like Ali, you probably have friends who are like okay, yeah, yeah, and they don't really necessarily understand what you've gone through. And same with you, melissa, I definitely have friends who I don't really talk about it unless they ask, but talking to those people who have gone through it has helped me tremendously for sure. What about your survivorship? What are you doing now to keep yourself? I mean, obviously you went skiing today, you went cross-country skiing. You keep yourself healthy. You're still active, you go to yoga. Is there anything that you want to share that you do differently, maybe in your survivorship, or is it all the same?

Speaker 3: 30:55

Well, I still have those big goals and so I think that maybe a little bit Different in my survivorship is that I've just found that it's the process has been pretty transformative transformative in terms of learning that I I still want to go for those big goals and I'm gonna set bigger goals and I'm not gonna Let this stop me. I'm gonna actually Use it to push me forward.

Speaker 1: 31:28

Yeah, maybe more so than before breast cancer, you might go. I have all the time in the world. For me it's like we travel a lot and I'm like I want to live right now. Yeah, I don't want to wait. I don't want to sit there and constantly Say I just want to do things now and I want to go forward. I want to accomplish things mainly because, when it all comes down to it, we had cancer. Cancer tried to kill us, right, and so I want to live, and so I think that's really important for people to know.

Speaker 1: 31:56

Out there is is that, especially if you catch it early and you go through the treatments, you can have a lovely life after cancer and you certainly meet a lot of people. They call it the sisterhood of all sisterhoods. I mean, look at us, we're friends and I've met a ton of people that I've never even met in person. They're across the country or out of the country that I'm in touch with on a regular basis Just because I went through breast cancer and now what I'm doing with the podcast. So I like that. You have big goals and it's probably lit a fire, maybe a little bit, absolutely.

Speaker 2: 32:36

Melissa, I think I just want to add to this that we are being super positive as post breast cancer, but that it does change you and the fact, or it changed me. I can speak for myself of being Trying to be more tuned into my body, though I still don't think I would have recognized that I had cancer Listening to my body. But also I have to say that there is a sense of fear that I never used to have. I don't let it control or run my life, but if I feel a lump now, I'm going it. I'm not going to wait. If I feel something weird going on, I call the doctor, and I don't necessarily think that's a bad thing, but that is driven from. That is a change from pre cancer.

Speaker 1: 33:21

Yeah, a lot of survivors that I've spoken to Well, you know. I mean I've seen survivors get cancer again.

Speaker 1: 33:27

It's not abnormal to have that fear right it's. We know that it can happen to us. So we do have that little bit of fear and we pay attention a lot more and I don't let it run my life. I still go and do the things that I want to do. That's why I want to do things right now. I want to travel. I want to take advantage of what I can take advantage of now.

Speaker 1: 33:49

So advice your biggest piece of advice and I know we've talked about Early detection one of my biggest pieces of advice is to again have people plug in and also Understand that it's really important to be able to educate yourself and understand that it is okay to get second opinions, it's okay to question your doctors you obviously you can do it in a respectful way. But questioning and don't feel like a complete jerk for asking those questions because it's your body and Advocating for yourself that is one thing that I did pretty well Before cancer, but I am a whole heck of a lot better at it now. Just because I was fearful and I wanted to know what my options were like, I mean, I almost went into a breast surgery that I didn't want, and if it wasn't for People reaching out to me to tell me that there were actually other options, it would have been a totally different story for me. So that's my biggest piece of advice to people is to advocate for yourself. Get a second opinion. Yeah, so what about you, ali? Listen to my podcast?

Speaker 3: 35:01

No, my piece of advice is that, especially for the type of stage and type of cancer that Melissa and I had, the treatment process is Pretty clear. So you go through this treatment process and I don't. There weren't a ton of Decisions. It's just sort of like there's the data and the research supports that this is really what you need to do, and so that's treatment. But I also think that my advice is that there's this whole other piece, and that's Recovery. I have a physical therapist, a mental health therapist and a dietician that are helping me get through recovery in the healthiest and most beneficial way, and so treat your recovery as something that's just as important as Treatment.

Speaker 1: 35:52

Right, that's such a good point. That's such a good point. And sometimes I don't know about you guys, but I have people sometimes thinking, oh yeah, jamie, you know you're back to normal and everything's just honky-dory and that's just not how it really works all the time. And so, to honor your feelings about things and your emotions, I love that I'm still seeing a therapist. I started seeing her at the very beginning of cancer and and she has been incredibly helpful, and I even sought out a therapist in Australia that I'm still in touch with, eddie Enever, that I interviewed as well, and Because that recovery is, and your interior survivorship is really sometimes as Important, if not more important, than the treatment. Obviously the treatment saved your life, but you also want to have mental stability going forward. So, yeah, that's such a great point, ali, thank you. How about you, melissa?

Speaker 2: 36:45

advocating for yourself, like you said, jamie, is huge. Avocating for yourself as you continue in your recovery is important as well. I Also wanted to say because the recovery process is huge and how you decide to do that Every single type of cancer breast cancer is different. Ali and I had the same type, but our process would still be a little different of how the team we had, the process we went through and how we are recovering, and so that was why my B2B group is kind of like my recovery group in a sense, I guess, because they understand that and we all pick our own ways and share those.

Speaker 2: 37:23

I Think it's really important to advocate for yourself because your body changes after cancer and sometimes it's hard to separate that from menopause because, as you said, like it kind of kicks us into menopause many of us. I Advocated for myself and made the choice not to take the estrogen blockers after a year because I Was having major ligament issues. My ligaments and tendons and stuff just ached and hurt and I still have issues with them getting easily injured. Even after not being on the estrogen blockers. My body has changed like these might be things I had a tendency for, but I expect change and I I kind of finally had to give myself permission to say that's okay, my body has changed, I survived and I'm still super active, and I just have to be careful not to hurt myself Sometimes yeah, and I think aging anyway, and when we age we change, right?

Speaker 1: 38:20

I mean my body definitely has changed and I mean I'm just eight weeks out from my surgery and I finally just got back into yoga this morning and it felt so good because I'm so used to being active and I need to get prepared to backpack this summer sometime. I am not in the shape to do that right now, so I need to definitely practice. Thank you for bringing up the body, because it does change and we feel different inside. I mean my breasts are different because, well, there I'm, I'm.

Speaker 1: 38:52

I mourned losing my breasts.

Speaker 1: 38:54

I loved my breasts before and I am very, very lucky that I had the surgeon that I did because he made me whole again and I never thought I was gonna say that at all and so, recognizing that your body does change and that we need to be okay with that and it's also okay to mourn your body and it's okay to feel bad at sometimes and walk through it, just don't stay there yeah, well, I think that you two are the prime example of Major early detection, but also understanding that your treatments were kind of rough you know it wasn't just a easy peasy.

Speaker 1: 39:35

I watched you the whole time, melissa, and now I can appreciate it so much more Because at that time I didn't have breast cancer, but I appreciate it so much more what you went through in the exhaustion you went through, and, ali, I hope that people that you talk to, your friends and things like that, take that into consideration. And for me, if I can reach one person but I don't want to just reach one person I want to save the world. All right, that's what I want. So is there anything you'd like to leave us with Ali before we wrap up?

Speaker 3: 40:06

Get your annual, get your annual, get your annual man and and if you're okay, you're okay if they find something.

Speaker 1: 40:16

It'll be chaos, but it eventually will be okay, yeah, I would say to know if you have dense breast tissue, because once I found out that I did, I Actually called up and demanded a diagnostics. I didn't realize at the time that there's a difference between I thought that the Diagnostics was the same thing as including an ultrasound, but apparently it isn't. So there's a diagnostics, mammogram and an ultrasound. I didn't even know that until after I knew I got Ultrasounds, but I didn't realize that there was a difference. There were two different things that you were doing, so knowing if you have dense breast tissue and I know right now that that doctors are required to tell women if they have Dense breast tissue, which is nice, melissa. How?

Speaker 2: 41:00

about you. I agree with Ali for sure. You know yearly mammograms. Just do it, it's a minimum of discomfort for just that piece of mind, and Advocate for yourself. Really, try to listen, be as healthy as you can. But in that sense it's not your fault, like, just remember it's not your fault and that you will get through it.

Speaker 1: 41:26

Yeah, I like that you say not your fault, because a lot of people do think what did I do? What did I eat? Mm-hmm, if I could have done this, if I should have done this. You know, and it isn't your fault, and people just get Breast cancer sometimes, and so we know this. It's so well known that we've got to go test those breasts. So, okay, ladies, thank you so much for being on. I really appreciate it. I'm so glad that we finally got to hear your stories and I just really want to tell my audience that these two ladies have such great advice to give. If you can, pass it around to your friends, listen to it yourself and Remember to test those breasts, and I will definitely see you next time on the next episode of test those breasts. Bye for now, friends.

Speaker 1: 42:13

Thank you so much for listening to this episode of test those breasts. I hope you got some great much needed information that will help you with your journey. As always, I am open to guests to add value to my show, and I'm also open to being a guest on other podcasts when I can add value. So please reach out if you'd like to collaborate. My contact information is in the show notes and as a reminder, rating, reviewing and sharing this podcast will truly help build a bigger audience all over the world. I thank you for your efforts. I look forward to sharing my next episode of test those breasts.