What if turning your personal struggles into art could change lives? On this episode of "Test Those Breasts," we welcome the extraordinary Keisha Brown, an advocate, playwright, and inspirational speaker who shares her journey as a breast cancer “previvor” and survivor of domestic violence. Keisha opens up about how her early experiences fueled her sense of purpose, transforming challenges into a powerful narrative of empowerment through her off-Broadway productions and advocacy work. Discover the Healing Exchange, her online platform where individuals share their stories and find healing through connection.
Continuing our conversation, we dive into the essential resources and advocacy efforts available for navigating breast cancer. From firsthand post-surgery experiences to the emotional complexities of genetic testing within families, this episode covers a range of vital topics. Learn about personal insights from the book "Facing the Unknown," detailing the physical and emotional recovery journey.
Are you loving the Test Those Breasts! Podcast? You can show your support by donating to the Test Those Breasts Nonprofit @ https://testthosebreasts.org/donate/
Thanks for listening! I would appreciate your rating and review where you listen to podcasts!
I am not a doctor and not all information in this podcast comes from qualified healthcare providers, therefore may not constitute medical advice. For personalized medical advice, you should reach out to one of the qualified healthcare providers interviewed on this podcast and/or seek medical advice from your own providers .
What if turning your personal struggles into art could change lives? On this episode of "Test Those Breasts," we welcome the extraordinary Keisha Brown, an advocate, playwright, and inspirational speaker who shares her journey as a breast cancer “previvor” and survivor of domestic violence. Keisha opens up about how her early experiences fueled her sense of purpose, transforming challenges into a powerful narrative of empowerment through her off-Broadway productions and advocacy work. Discover the Healing Exchange, her online platform where individuals share their stories and find healing through connection.
Continuing our conversation, we dive into the essential resources and advocacy efforts available for navigating breast cancer. From firsthand post-surgery experiences to the emotional complexities of genetic testing within families, this episode covers a range of vital topics. Learn about personal insights from the book "Facing the Unknown," detailing the physical and emotional recovery journey.
Are you loving the Test Those Breasts! Podcast? You can show your support by donating to the Test Those Breasts Nonprofit @ https://testthosebreasts.org/donate/
Thanks for listening! I would appreciate your rating and review where you listen to podcasts!
I am not a doctor and not all information in this podcast comes from qualified healthcare providers, therefore may not constitute medical advice. For personalized medical advice, you should reach out to one of the qualified healthcare providers interviewed on this podcast and/or seek medical advice from your own providers .
Speaker 1:
Hello friends, welcome back to the Test those Breasts podcast. I am your host, jamie Vaughn. I'm a retired teacher of 20 years and a breast cancer thriver turned staunch, unapologetic, loud supporter and advocate for others, bringing education and awareness through a myriad of medical experts, therapists, caregivers and other survivors. A breast cancer diagnosis is incredibly overwhelming, with the mounds of information out there, and other survivors A breast cancer diagnosis is incredibly overwhelming, with the mounds of information out there, especially on Dr Google. I get it. I'm not a doctor and I know how important it is to uncover accurate information, which is my ongoing mission through my nonprofit. The podcast includes personal stories and opinions from breast cancer survivors and professional physicians, providing the most up-to-date information. At the time of recording Evidence, research and practices are always changing, so please check the date of the recording and always refer to your medical professionals for the most up-to-date information. I hope you find this podcast a source of inspiration and support from my guests. Their contact information is in the show notes, so please feel free to reach out to them. We have an enormous breast cancer community ready to support you in so many ways. Now let's listen to the next episode of Test those Breasts. Hey friends, welcome back to this episode of Test those Breasts. I am your host, jamie Vaughn, and today I am so excited to have my new friend, keisha Brown, on my show. So Keisha is a multifaceted advocate, playwright and inspirational speaker whose life's work is dedicated to empowering others through her experiences as a previvor.
Speaker 1:
Growing up in a home marked by domestic violence, keisha's early years were fraught with challenges. Yet it was from this crucible of adversity that she emerged with profound sense of purpose. Keisha's journey as an advocate began with her own proactive steps to reduce her risk of developing cancer, a decision born out of the deeply personal understanding of the toll that illness can take on individuals and families. Through her off-Broadway productions such as Hear my Cry, a poignant exploration of the plight of HIV and AIDS orphans, keisha demonstrated her commitment to using art as a tool for social change, with all proceeds directed towards supporting those in need. Her plays, including Stolen Dreams and the Well, further showcased her talent for crafting narratives that resonate with audiences on a profound level.
Speaker 1:
Beyond the stage, keisha's advocacy extends to her role as a domestic violence and patient advocate, providing a voice for survivors and pre-vivors alike. Drawing from her own experiences, she offers guidance, support and a beacon of hope to those navigating similar challenges. Through her online platform, the Healing Exchange, keisha creates a space for individuals to share their stories, fostering connection and healing in a digital landscape. That is so really, really awesome. Keisha, I just welcome you to my show. It's so great to see you and hear you. How are you doing today? I am blessed.
Speaker 2:
I am coming off of a little cold, but other than that I am blessed and thank you for having me on your show.
Speaker 1:
I'm so excited I've been excited all day I am too, because you really have taken your story. So I was talking to somebody the other day. They're like you know, I'm just an ordinary person. I go, you know what Most of us are ordinary people with extraordinary stories and what you've done with your life challenges is just extraordinary and I think that we need to talk about this and I love the fact that you are sharing about being a pre-vivor, and we're going to get to that in just a minute. But first I want to tell my audience when this episode comes out. You should go to YouTube and watch the episode, because Keisha has the neatest vibe. She is such a beautiful woman. You've got to see what she looks like. Really, truly, I think you're just absolutely beautiful and I you and I talked before and I know you know I always like to see if there is a connection and a vibe, so I appreciate your being here.
Speaker 2:
Oh, absolutely.
Speaker 1:
I have met several pre-vibers and we're going to talk about what that means and what that means to you and your life in just a few minutes, but I really would like you to share with our audience who Keisha Brown is Like. I just read some things, but who are you?
Speaker 2:
I ask myself that same question every day who is this chick? As you read, I am a woman of. I wear many hats. Sometimes it's a blessing and a curse to be gifted, but nevertheless, I am blessed in who I am. I am a mother, I am a yaya I don't like the word grandma and I have two grown men. I have an eight-year-old grandson and I have a dog named Simba. I am a woman who loves to empower, loves to encourage other women to move past their pain and to confront their pain so that they can be a better version of themselves. And that's just who I am in a nutshell.
Speaker 2:
I am your average woman who loves to cook sometimes, who can multitask and I'm an author on top of all the other things. I like to be creative. I like to have fun. I am a family girl. I love to spend time with my family. I am a mama's girl. I like to date my mom.
Speaker 1:
You know, I'm just a cool cat as they say, you can tell you're a cool cat and I was a mama's girl too. My mom passed away in 2019, and I was super duper close with my mom, so I understand that connection very, very well and, to be honest with you, she's always been with me, even since she died. So she was with me throughout my whole cancer journey. I don't know if I shared this with you before, but she's in an urn and this really beautiful looking urn, and I had her in my healing room. I would put my turbans on her and her, beat my beanies on her and say, oh, mom, that looks really good on you.
Speaker 1:
That's such a cute beanie, that's such a cute term. Oh, you know, I just kind of incorporated her in my whole journey. So, yeah, it was with moms, absolutely. So at some point in time you decided to take action to try to prevent getting breast cancer. Where did that all start and where did that lead you to?
Speaker 2:
Well, it started. I was one of those women who had multiple cysts that would come back year after year and I would go get checked, go to my doctor. They would do the mammogram or ultrasound and I will see the breast surgeon. Then they will remove it, test it, biopsy it, and then it just got to a point where I noticed it was happening a little bit more than what I would like and because of my predisposition, of my family history of breast cancer my grandmother, who I love dearly, she passed away from breast cancer at an early age, I think she was around 60. My mom, who is a breast cancer survivor and still with us so I had all of those things going on in the back of my head was, oh my God, maybe one day it would be me.
Speaker 2:
And with the cysts coming back as often as it was, I decided to go get genetic testing done. And once I got my genetic test done, I came back with they call it the ATM gene, which is a very invasive gene, that if I was to get cancer, that the likelihood it would spread throughout my body would be very fast. So, taking that information, I had to say, okay, what are you going to do about it? Keish, I am a very proactive person. I don't like to sit around and wait to see what's going to happen. If I could do anything about it, if I could change the narrative, if I could stay here a little bit longer for my family, then that's what I'm going to do. So, with that being said, I spoke to my genetic counselor and she gave me all the options. We could choose to monitor you every six months. You could come in, we would do the testing, or you could choose to do nothing, or you could choose to have a bilateral double mastectomy. And I was like whoa, okay, hold up, it was a lot to take in at that time. It was a lot to take in at that time.
Speaker 2:
But I went home and the first thing was I need to talk to my family. You know my immediate family, of course my mom, my kids and my spouse and I had to get a feel of what they thought about the whole situation and allow them to express themselves. Whether I agreed with them or not, and you know some of the responses was why would you want to do that? You don't have cancer, Aren't you being a little bit dramatic? It was a combination of responses that I got, and then I sat with that for maybe a couple of weeks and then I said I'm going to do it, I'm going to take matters in my own hands, I'm going to do my part and I'm going to just have the surgery.
Speaker 2:
At first it was just do it, Don't think too much about it. But then, as time went on, the depression set in the oh my God, what is that going to look like? Am I going to be sexy as a woman? How are my clothes going to fit? Am I going to be suicidal? You know, it was so many things coming through my mind at that time and I had to really, I guess, power myself up, fuel myself with affirmations You're beautiful, your family is going to love you just the way you are, your breasts don't make you. It was those conversations that I had with myself that I believe I was able to navigate the muddy borders.
Speaker 1:
As I say, yeah, it's interesting all of the judgments that you had to really kind of process and think about, Because I mean, from their perspective it makes like sense that they would ask those questions Like, why would you do that, Especially the information that they don't have? So the genetic testing, your mom, your grandma, but I mean that would be a normal question that anyone would ask. Why would you do that?
Speaker 2:
You don't even have cancer, Right that's usually the question that people, even outside of my family, would ask. The average person will say why would you even want to do that to yourself when you don't have cancer? But when science and when you know your genetic makeup and because I've had multiple cysts show up in my breast multiple times, it was more of a do it before it gets me, get it before it gets me, type of thing. And then who's to say, I still could get cancer, it could come in a different form, it could go throughout a different part of my body, it could come in a different form, it could go throughout a different part of my body. So it's not 100% proof, but it kind of gives you that percentage of okay, I'm okay, I'm safe, along with healthy eating and dieting and taking care of myself. All of that plays a part in my survival. So I like to be proactive instead of sitting around, and I want to share this.
Speaker 2:
One of the things that kind of drove home for me was I had a friend, actually a co-worker, and I recall during that time up until I decided to make the decision to have the surgery, I was confiding in her about what I wanted to do and she was going through something similar. She was actually diagnosed with breast cancer. Every day she would come to work and say well, did you do it? Did you talk to your counselor, did you schedule the surgery? And every day I was saying no, I'll do it next week, I'll do it next week. And this one particular day she came in and she said I need you to follow through. And she said promise me, you're going to do it. No-transcript.
Speaker 1:
Oh.
Speaker 2:
Keisha. She was the same age as me and she had two beautiful young girls. When they came and told me she was on the floor I worked at in the same hospital I worked, she was there, but she didn't want to see. She wasn't having any visitors, just her family. And every day I would come to work with this weight in my stomach of like I know she's there and I just said, okay, all right, keish, you have to live because she can't live.
Speaker 2:
And so after the surgery I never forget I was home, I was recovering, I was in my recliner, I was in a lot of pain and I get this card. And it was around Christmas time and I get this card and I'm like where is this coming from? And I opened it up and it was a picture of two beautiful girls and it said Merry Christmas. And it was her daughter's. It was her daughter sending me a Christmas card. At that moment I knew I made the best decision. It was like her spirit was with me at that very moment. It was like you did it, keish. I knew then I did the right thing. I kept the car, because it's a memory that I treasure and I thank God for her, because had I not did it, I don't know if I would be here, and I did it because she wasn't able to do it.
Speaker 1:
So it's kind of sounds like she knew that she was not going to live. Yeah, and she was really trying to get you to make that decision. Yes, and you were strong enough to make that decision, despite the other people saying whatever they were saying on the side Right, right, and you made that decision, yeah. Well, I'm really sorry to hear about your friend, that is. She definitely plays an enormous role in what's going on with you and your life, and so I'm glad that you were able to cherish that. What's your life like in your survivorship now, as far as how you advocate for others and support others, what does that look like?
Speaker 2:
Well, I've always been an advocate for women and I wanted to do something after my surgery, after I healed, to give back to other women that may have questions like I had questions. So I signed up with FORCE, which is an organization geared for previvors that have a genetic disposition for cancer, and they do a lot of outreach education. So I signed up to be a patient advocate and thus far I'm loving it because I'm meeting other providers who are embarking on surgery. They're about to either have surgery or they had surgery, and so they have a lot of questions. They want to know how was my experience, how was the recovery? And sometimes they need to hear from somebody that lived it so that they can get their mind wrapped around. Ok, what to expect, I know.
Speaker 2:
For me, I watched a lot of YouTube videos before my surgery, but it wasn't nothing like talking to someone who actually lived it went to the hospital, went to this and what? Ok, how are the drains? How did you deal with the pain? How was your pain level? How did you sleep? Those little questions that we don't think about. So I decided to just give myself back to those who may need help, and so that's what I do now. I just try to be an advocate, be a voice for those who have questions, who may not know where to turn, may not know the resources that are out there, because there are a lot of resources out there, we just don't know they exist. So just pointing them in the right direction.
Speaker 1:
Right. My audience most of them know, and everyone I interview knows, that Test those Breasts is now a nonprofit, and so I'm excited about that. It was a decision that I made for a few different reasons, but on the website that will be launching soon I mean you can see it, it's out there but it's just not quite finished I am going to have a resource page that I'm working on that is going to be able to you know, people at their fingertips can get information about having genetics in their family and making the decision to do what you did. So I am excited to put whatever resources you have on my resource page so that people can. You know there's a wider audience. Absolutely, I would definitely get it. And also there is going to be a page where people can tell their stories, and I want pre-vivors to tell their stories, People who have just been diagnosed, people who are just curious about what they can do leading up to possibility of getting breast cancer.
Speaker 1:
I mean, it's such an epidemic, right, it's one in eight women. And then we have this whole side of so many people out there don't have the access to even get mammograms and the proper screening for dense breast tissue or whatever it is, Maybe their insurance doesn't cover it. So I would assume that some of the information that you have for people is helping them navigate insurance and what they need to be advocating for themselves with as far as the insurance and the healthcare providers, because healthcare providers out there do not have enough information about doing something like what you did. So I'm hoping that that's probably part of your mission is to get that information out to people.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, absolutely Wow.
Speaker 1:
Wow. So you said, you do have daughters.
Speaker 2:
I have two sons and a grandson.
Speaker 1:
Perfect. What about them? Did you have them do some genetic testing? You know?
Speaker 2:
I would love for them to get tested, but I'm kind of scared. It's one of those things for me I didn't mind finding out, but for my kids I'm more like do I really want to know? Is it going to worry me as a mother? Because I tend to be very protective over my kids protective over my kids and so I'm not sure if me knowing would help me. And it may sound selfish.
Speaker 1:
Let me ask you another question what about them? And the only reason I ask is because I interviewed a couple, a sister and a brother, Harvey and Vicki. Harvey is a breast cancer survivor.
Speaker 1:
Vicki had breast cancer four times and it is in her family and she had her twin sons tested and they both have the gene and her brother ended up getting breast cancer. The other brother, if I remember correctly, he has not gotten tested and doesn't want to know. Yeah, I mean, that must be a really hard decision for you being a mother, and what that might do to you as far as your mental state and worrying about them. Right, have you asked them?
Speaker 2:
The crazy thing is I haven't. I think it's always been in the back of my mind because with the ATM gene, it puts me at risk. I think when the genetic counselors told me because I have boys men they may be subjected higher risk for prostate cancer, and so that's always playing in the back of my mind and I think I was just trying to get through my own healing that it was just like, okay, I can't think about that right now, but that is a conversation I think I really need to have with them, because they are getting older, I'm getting older and they need to know what the risks are and what to look out for, and I think sometimes we don't like to have those hard conversations, but it's necessary.
Speaker 1:
Right and you know, not a lot of people know that men can get breast cancer. Yeah they sure can. I certainly never knew that before I had breast cancer. I mean, I knew a lot of things about breast cancer. I too went in and got multiple lumpectomies and I was always really good at taking care of my breast health and all that. I was very diligent about going in every year for my mammogram and asking for an ultrasound as well because of my dense breasts.
Speaker 1:
But, never did. I know that men could get breast cancer, but it makes sense they have breasts and they don't look the same as ours, but nevertheless they still have them. Yeah, that's just something to ponder. That question sort of came up organically right then. I love it. I told you that's how my, my podcasts are right. All right, so you have a book. Let's talk about your book. It's called facing the unknown. Can you tell us about the title of that number one and how that has to do with your life?
Speaker 2:
Facing the Unknown. Well, the title. I came up with the title during my recovery. I feel like everything. I don't want to say bad, but any trial that I've ever went through I've always tried to turn it into something positive. So, yeah, I was home and I was thinking I'm going to write a book about this and I was thinking where are you going to call it?
Speaker 2:
And facing the unknown, I said because you don't know. You just don't know. You don't know if you're going to get diagnosed later. You don't know what the outcome is going to be. You don't know how surgery is going to be. There are so many unknowns in the factor of navigating the muddy waters that you just don't know.
Speaker 2:
So I decided facing the unknown a provider's path to wellness. Let's take what we don't know, match it for what we do know, put it in a book. What we do know, put it in a book and then help those who are coming behind me that so that they can know what's actually what to expect. So what I did was I took my story and I put it in the book. And then I've also shared some resources, some diet tips, some organizations to partner with, some organizations to partner with to look into. I've also wrote about Memorial Sloan Kettering, who did my surgery, and how my grandmother was also treated at Memorial Sloan Kettering, but by the time she found out she had cancer it was too late, and how history repeats itself. And now here I am. I was able to go to the same hospital, but my outcome was different. So you just don't know what you don't know, and that's how I came up with the story and here's my cover. I just want to show them my cover. It's a small book.
Speaker 1:
That's really cool. That's very beautiful.
Speaker 2:
I created it small because I wanted cancer survivors and pre-virus who may be in the hospital and you could just stick it in your pocketbook. And I'm coming out with a journal to go with it, as well as affirmation cards, because the one thing that helped me was, like I said, affirmation. So I'm coming up with healing cards to go with that, so it'd be a whole package thing.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, that will be a really cool gift to give to someone when they are diagnosed. And you know you mentioned that your grandmother was too far along by the time she found out. And so this is really so fitting because my podcast you know you talked about your title my podcast is called Test those Breasts because, when it all comes down to it, early detection is key, right, the sooner you can get in and have something taking a look at it, if you notice something visually different, if you feel something different, you go in. And then, of course, learning how to advocate for ourselves, right. So I was 54 when I was diagnosed and I have always been good with advocating for myself.
Speaker 1:
But there are people who are younger, who you know they go into the doctor and say, hey, this doesn't feel right, and doctors might turn you around and say, hey, you're too young to have cancer, breast cancer and we know now this is just not true. You know you can't be too young, can't be too healthy or whatever, right? Well, I'm excited that your book. Do you have a couple of other books that?
Speaker 2:
Yes, I have a book called a girl get your power back. Do you want to be healed? That's about my childhood trauma, growing up in a domestic violence home, and so I wrote about that.
Speaker 1:
Let's talk about that, because one of the things that you and I talked about before was this idea of stress and trauma in the family and how that leads to illnesses. Yeah, I'm a very, very firm believer in that because I believe I really, truly. I can't prove it and of course, you don't want to go way down that rabbit hole, but I really believe that stress and trauma played a huge role in my diagnosis.
Speaker 2:
Yes, I believe that too, because as a kid growing up in that environment, I seen my mom really go through it and I seen her get breast cancer and then I seen her just work through it. She just powered through it and it was just so amazing to see this strong woman who's still to this day. She's just a rock. I look at her in amazement of the strength that she has. I also think about okay, could it have been the stress of the environment that she was in that may have gotten her to the point where she was sick and then the diabetes and all of those things that we are predispositioned to in my family showed up.
Speaker 2:
So for me, I also had Crohn's disease before having the surgery, and so I realized that trauma it wasn't until I dealt with my trauma and went to therapy is when my body is when my gut really healed. Honestly, I can say that the connection between the two is definitely a connection there. It wasn't until I was able to pull back those layers and deal with that childhood trauma and talk about it and heal from it is when my Crohn's disease actually went into submission. So you're on to something there.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, I've learned a lot about gut health and what stress and trauma does, and inflammation in the body. I've always learned about that from a lot younger of an age, and so I've always been really careful about what I put in my body, and I barely even drink alcohol anymore. I know that alcohol causes a lot of inflammation, so I'm kind of a every so often drinker, and even when I do, I don't like overdue or anything like that, but learning how to eat foods that are anti-inflammatory. And then I also am in therapy. I've been in therapy for quite some time and I am a firm believer that people need to do something to address the trauma in their lives.
Speaker 1:
There were things that I didn't realize, that were there in my childhood, and moving forward that, I believe, played a big role in it, and I had a pretty good childhood. I will say that I had great parents and we were raised very well, but there were certain things that occurred that I really had to peel back the layers on it and acknowledge that, and so, anyway, no, I think it's very fascinating. Well, as we wrap up, keisha, I really would like for you to share with our audience a big piece of advice that you would give to someone who has not had breast cancer? Maybe they're in the same situation that you were in, grappling with making decisions. Maybe they haven't even thought about it yet, but they know, maybe, that they have it in their family. Or maybe they haven't been genetically tested, but they know that grandma died of breast cancer or had breast cancer. What kind of a piece of advice can you leave our audience with? I?
Speaker 2:
would say, first and foremost, whatever you do, make sure you're doing it for you and make sure you get checked. I think sometimes we may see the red flags or we may feel like something is not quite right, but then we're like, oh, it's nothing. And then it comes back, and then you may feel a little pain here or there. We ignore it. Oh, it's probably something I ate and we do that. But is that small voice that's saying something is not quite right? That's saying something is not quite right?
Speaker 2:
Pay attention to that, because sometimes that could be the voice that will save your life at that moment, if you would just pay attention to your gut and follow through and do it for you. Don't do it, because this is what society says, this is what your family says you should do. Is your body, your health. And I would say, if you're going to do anything, just do it because you want to do it and nobody's forcing you to do it, and that way you'll be able to live with the results and you'll be able to really stand in it and have no regrets.
Speaker 1:
No regrets. That's very powerful advice. By the way, how is your husband with all of this?
Speaker 2:
Well, I don't have a husband, I have a wife. Oh, I'm so sorry, and that's a whole other story.
Speaker 1:
No, no. What I'll do is I will have my editor take that part out and I'm going to ask you another question how is your spouse with this?
Speaker 2:
You don't have to. I'm okay with it, trust me. And the funny thing is, because I have a wife, it was very different as far as my recovery, because a lot of times people would say that, oh, how's your husband and what does he think about all this?
Speaker 1:
And so I'm used to that response, you know like well, and I know we talked about this before and I completely you know, I remember talking about it and then I was like oh, I totally forgot, Don't worry.
Speaker 2:
No worries.
Speaker 1:
That's why I say how is your spouse with this?
Speaker 2:
She is okay, again, having those hard conversations, and because I'm same gender, loving, it was hard to say. Is she going to find me attractive still? Because your breasts are a part of your body, a part of you. I had them all my life. So it was important to me that my spouse would be able to still love me, and love me unconditionally, whether I had boobs or I didn't. And so the moment my spouse was able to say I'm going to love you through this. We're going to get through this together. I knew that I could get through it because I had a support system and 14 years we've been together.
Speaker 1:
That's awesome, and give her a big hug for me, because that makes me really happy. We have a YouTube channel, think Higher Studio, and we also have you on Facebook Speak to Motivate. I'm going to put all of this in the show notes so that people know where to find you, as well as your website, and we also have a couple of resources that you have included in there. I just want to thank you so much, keisha, for joining us today. Thank you, this conversation has been very impactful and I've learned a lot from you, and I just really appreciate it. Do you have anything else to wrap up with before we disconnect?
Speaker 2:
I'm just full, I'm excited. Like I said, if you ever need anything, you need me to help with anything your organization, whatever I can add and bring to the table, I will. I'm just blessed and I'm thank you for the opportunity.
Speaker 1:
I'm just less and I'm. Thank you for the opportunity.
Speaker 1:
I'm going to take you up on that, because I we could always use help and I am a big collaborator, so I love collaborating with other people, and so I will be in touch, all right, tisha. Well, thank you so much again for being here and to my audience. I really appreciate your joining us on this episode of test those breasts and we will see you next time on the next episode. Bye, bye for now, friends. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of test those breasts. I hope you got some great much needed information that will help you with your journey. As always, I am open to guests to add value to my show, and I'm also open to being a guest on other podcasts where I can add value, so please reach out if you'd like to collaborate. My contact information is in the show notes and, as a reminder, rating, reviewing and sharing this podcast will truly help build a bigger audience all over the world. I thank you for your efforts. I look forward to sharing my next episode of Test those Breasts.
