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Test Those Breasts ™️
This podcast by Jamie Vaughn is a deep-dive discussion on a myriad of breast cancer topics, such as early detection, the initial shock of diagnosis, testing/scans, treatment, loss of hair, caregiving, surgery, emotional support, and advocacy.
These episodes will include breast cancer survivors, thrivers, caregivers, surgeons, oncologists, therapists, and other specialists who can speak to many different topics.
Disclaimer: I am not a doctor and not all information in this podcast comes from qualified health care providers, therefore does not constitute medical advice. For personalized medical advice, you should reach out to one of the qualified healthcare providers interviewed on this podcast and/or seek medical advice from your own providers.
Test Those Breasts ™️
Episode 53: Empowering Healing and Reclamation Through Medical Tattooing w/ Miroslava DeLeon
As the sun sets on another day, we elate in the beauty of transformation and the quiet strength it embodies—qualities that breast cancer survivors know all too well. Today, I'm thrilled to share a space w/ Miroslava De Leon- Conceal Touch - Instagram, whose artistry in medical tattooing lights a path to healing for many. Delving into areola and nipple restoration, we uncover the layers of emotional rejuvenation that bloom from Miroslava's work, offering a unique perspective on the art of recovery. Her journey, interwoven with the personal stories of those she's helped, paints a picture of resilience and the quiet triumph of regaining one's self-image after breast cancer.
Each brushstroke on the canvas of survivorship contributes to a larger masterpiece of hope and wholeness. This episode peels back the curtain on the delicate dance of nipple and areola tattooing—how it's not just about the ink, but the shared decisions and personal touches that form the final touches of breast reconstruction. We unravel the technical threads that tie together the art of tattooing with the science of healing, from selecting the perfect pigment to understanding the complexities of reconstructed skin. It's a narrative of reclaiming identity, where every hue mixed and every line drawn underscores a step toward completeness.
Website: www.concealtouch.com - Located in Houston, TX
Phone: (832)433-2191
Email: info@concealtouch.com or miroslava@concealtouch.com
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I am not a doctor and not all information in this podcast comes from qualified healthcare providers, therefore may not constitute medical advice. For personalized medical advice, you should reach out to one of the qualified healthcare providers interviewed on this podcast and/or seek medical advice from your own providers .
Welcome to Season 2 of Test those Breasts podcast. I am your host, jamie Vaughn. I am really excited to continue this journey and mission into 2024 to help shorten the overwhelming learning curve for those who are newly diagnosed, or yet to be diagnosed, with breast cancer. It has been such an honor and a privilege to be able to connect and interview many survivors, thrivers, caregivers, oncologists, surgeons, nurses, therapists, advocates and more, in order to provide much needed holistic guidance for our breast cancer community. Breast cancer has become such an epidemic, so the more empowered we are, the better. By listening, rating, reviewing and sharing this podcast, it truly does help bring in more listeners from all over the world. I appreciate your help in spreading this knowledge. My episodes are released weekly on Apple, spotify and other platforms. Now let's listen to this next episode of Test those Breasts. Now let's listen to this next episode of Test those Breasts. Before we get started on the next episode, I want to remind people, in case you don't remember or you just don't know about it, but the 37th Annual National Cancer Survivors Day Celebration of Life will be held on Sunday, june 2nd 2024. And on this day, people across the globe will come together to acknowledge cancer survivors, raise awareness of ongoing challenges cancer survivors face because of their disease and, most importantly, celebrate life. National Cancer Survivors Day is more than just a party. It is a day for everyone who is living with the history of cancer to connect with other cancer survivors, celebrate milestones, share their stories and thank those who have supported them along the way. It is also a day to draw attention to the ongoing challenges of cancer survivorship, with the aim of promoting more resources, research and legislation to improve cancer survivors' quality of life. So mark your calendars and make plans to celebrate National Cancer Survivors Day with cancer survivors in your community. If you are in the Reno area, we are holding an event at the Reno Elks Lodge at 597 Cumley Lane in Reno and it is from 1 to 3 pm and it is put on by Cancer Community Clubhouse and there are all kinds of people who've come together to make this a successful event and we hope that you can come and join us. It is free and it is an 80s theme. The theme is bold, bright and brave survivorship, and we will have a great band called New Wave Crave and we'll have fun gifts and we will have a raffle and a silent auction, and so we hope that you make it Again. It's from 1 to 3 pm Sunday, june 2nd, at the Reno Elks Lodge and we just hope to see you there. Hey, friends, welcome back to this episode of Tess those Breasts. I am your host, jamie Vaughn, and I am so excited.
Speaker 1:Today I have my new friend, miroslava DeLeon on my show. With over five years of dedicated expertise, miroslava stands out at the forefront of medical tattooing, specializing in areola, nipple restoration tattoos for breast cancer survivors and scar and stretch mark camouflage. Renowned for a profound commitment to empowering women through art, miroslava combines this meticulous skill with a compassionate approach, transforming the lives and restoring confidence with every masterpiece created. Well, hello, miroslava. It's so good to see you and hear you finally. It's so good to connect finally.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, I know you and I've had conversation in the past, but we have had to cancel a couple times our interview and we're finally here.
Speaker 1:You know, sometimes life gets in the way and I'm just so thrilled to have you here because, as my audience knows and as we've talked about before, tess those Breasts is now a nonprofit and I am super dedicated on bringing awareness and education to people number one, who've never had breast cancer, or, number two, people who have just been diagnosed or just going into their surgeries, and I want people to know, number one, where all the good surgeons are and, hello, where all the good nipple tattoo artists are. And you are one of those nipple tattoo artists that I have seen on Instagram and I've seen all of your work and your presence online is amazing and I really encourage people to take a look at what you have, and we have all of your information in the show notes. But hi, thank you for being here. I just want to hear more about Miroslava, and so I would love to know number one. This is so fascinating to me, like what inspired you to actually start nipple tattoo restoration for breast cancer patients in particular.
Speaker 2:Well, first of all, thank you for having me. I'm so excited to finally get the chance to connect and, more than anything, raise awareness for, like you mentioned, for women who are not familiar with breast cancer or women who have been newly diagnosed, I think it's amazing what you're doing with your podcast to raise awareness and really give women options, which I believe is truly important for women to have options. I have been doing medical tattooing for over five years and it started with a personal interest. I wanted to get a surgery that was medically needed, but I was afraid of the scars. This was a few years back and the surgeons were like well, I hope you're aware that it's going to be scars.
Speaker 1:That are very large.
Speaker 2:That completely frightened me. I didn't really know what this was back then. It really wasn't as popular as it is now. I think we're doing a better job at raising awareness and really showing what can be done with medical tattooing. As far as you know, areola tattooing and scar camouflage. So for me it came from a personal interest and I kind of just started researching and I didn't really find much about camouflage. It was more lasers or different treatments that they were being offered.
Speaker 2:I truly believe it was God that he knew I was really unhappy at the time working corporate. So I come from petrochemical. So I worked petrochemical for six years and within my first year of working there I felt like I wasn't doing anything. It wasn't gratifying. So I would go to work every day. I just felt like, well, I'm sitting behind a desk and I'm not really helping anyone.
Speaker 2:In a sense, I always liked working with people and working with my hands. So that for me was kind of a wake up call that I wanted to be able to do something different and I knew that God had a bigger purpose for me. So when I just started doing research, I found out about, you know, the camouflage and the aerial tattooing and I instantly knew that's what I wanted to do. So, for me, it gave me hope. After seeing what was being done with camouflage, I felt like I was going to be able to go through with my surgery and be able to conceal the scars. So, for me, it gave me hope. And then, after seeing what was done for cancer survivors, it was automatically a no-brainer.
Speaker 1:I'm like I want to do this.
Speaker 2:I want to help women. I want to empower women.
Speaker 2:At the time, my aunt. She had already been diagnosed with breast cancer, so I understand the emotional aspect of how it impacts the entire family when someone has been diagnosed with breast cancer. So for me it just I felt like it was an instant calling. I wanted to help women and I have not looked back ever since then. I get to do what I truly love. For me, it's more of passion. Every tattoo that I do, I do it with passion and I do it with so much love because I know the meaning behind it and I know the impact that it's going to have on the lives of breast cancer survivors. It's been truly a blessing for me.
Speaker 1:I love that. So tell me about some of your breast cancer patients, people who have gone through mastectomy and reconstruction that has come to you. Tell me about some of those relationships. We kind of talked about it in our last conversation but I would love to know, I guess, the relationship that you have cultivated because of these women.
Speaker 2:Every patient holds such a special place in my heart For them to open up and share their story.
Speaker 2:I truly believe it's not easy to be reminded of everything you went through and, I think, just talking about your journey it kind of just brings back all those memories, but the relationship that I built with all my patients is truly unique with every patient. They all hold such a special place in my heart and you know, I hear stories that I think that's the side that I wasn't prepared for, the emotional aspect of the stories that I hear on a day-to-day basis. Women who've gone through 10 surgeries, women who've had so many rounds of chemo and radiation and you know they were diagnosed on one breast and then that breast got infected and then it came back on the other breast, and I mean, if it's not motivational and it's not inspiring to hear these stories, I mean I don't know what the definition of a powerful woman?
Speaker 1:is.
Speaker 2:It truly is just hearing the stories. I had one patient that her story was so powerful and she didn't know about areola tattooing. It was a unilateral, so she had one breast and the other breast she didn't have an areola. She wasn't able to save the areola and she didn't know about it until 15 years later. So she had lived without a nipple and areola for 15 years and she's like I wish I would have known about this sooner. So for her, as soon as her surgeon told her about what could be done with tattooing, she came to me and I was truly surprised that, you know, she didn't know about it for so long and I asked myself how can we do a better job at raising awareness? Because that truly broke my heart, that someone she said she didn't want to date, she didn't want to look at herself in the mirror, and that's truly heartbreaking. It's truly heartbreaking to hear those words. So to me it really it's a wake up call.
Speaker 1:And you know, I'm just trying to figure out. What can we do as a community to raise awareness and to prevent this from happening? Yeah, so this is what we're doing right now we're raising awareness. I think your podcast is absolutely amazing.
Speaker 2:That's why I'm so excited to finally get the chance to talk and to be on your podcast, because what you're doing it's giving women hope, it's raising awareness and, more than anything, like I've said before, it's giving women options. Giving them options and just letting them know the different types of treatments, different ways to go about it, and knowing that they're not stuck with one, they're not stuck with one decision or just the fact that there's options out there, right, and I mean you and I talked about this before.
Speaker 1:You know I have tried to uncover where the nipple tattoo artists are around the country and I've talked to a few of them and I love the fact that I get to help people figure out what's best for them. Like you're in Houston, perky is in San Antonio. I know that there's a couple that some of my friends have gone to in California. I know there's Vinny in Baltimore. I think he's in Baltimore and he usually comes to the Center for Restorative Breast Surgery and originally I was going to go to him but then I had met perky girls and I do this with surgeons too. We are all in this together. We do this for a living, but we also need to know that people need options, and they need to know that people need options and they need to figure out who they resonate with the most, what the cost is, what insurance can do for them and which we're going to talk about in a second here, and then they can make an informed decision. People who are in the Houston area may not even know you're there and so knowing that you're there or people who are in the next state over might think, okay, you know what. I've got family in Houston and Miroslava is there and I can kind of combine my trip with that or whatever. But bringing awareness to people because and even again, to people who don't even have breast cancer, like haven't even had breast cancer and I have a lot of people, not a lot of people, really people get it when I explain it to them, when I say that this podcast is also geared towards awareness for people who've never even had breast cancer. Why? Because, number one, they might get breast cancer. I mean, it's a really good chance that people are going to get breast cancer. We know that one in eight women, right, and we also know that men get breast cancer. And if they never get breast cancer, we know that one in eight women, right, and we also know that men get breast cancer. And if they never get breast cancer, please never get breast cancer. But if you never get it, fantastic, you're going to know someone who did or does.
Speaker 1:For me, when I got breast cancer, I was in a world of overwhelm and there were so many things I did not know. And one of my friends so many things I did not know and one of my friends I spoke to her early on who went to Arizona to get her nipple tattoos. At first she says, jamie, just don't Google anything. Don't Google anything, you'll go down a rabbit hole. And then we started talking about her nipple tattoos. She did not even know this even existed for like six or seven years. She found out about it, went and got them done. She goes just kidding Google. That it's fascinating.
Speaker 1:She says it is a game changer and so I want people to know, like when they do get breast cancer, it's like, okay, you know what, I know so many things that I can do what I'm going to do for my surgery, where I can get surgery, what kinds of surgery I can get. And then if I have to get nipple tattoos, if I choose to do that, then I know where to go. So we are doing that right now and I highly recommend getting on as many podcasts as you possibly can to spread even more awareness. Okay, so let's get into your services. What kind of services do you offer? I know the areola, but what does that entail?
Speaker 2:So I only specialize in medical tattooing. So what that entails is just the areola tattooing really for anyone that's looking for the service or that can benefit from the service, primarily breast cancer survivors so this can be done to recreate the nipple and areola.
Speaker 2:So sometimes people are like, well, it's just nipple tattooing, right, but it's the nipple, it's a very different part of the breast and the areola. So it's nipple and areola tattooing and it can be done for breast cancer survivors as well as just cosmetic procedures. I'm seeing it a lot more now that you know women. Unfortunately some kind of infection or the areola went necrotic and unfortunately they lost the entire nipple and areola. So there's also a need for nipple and areola tattooing for non-cancer patients.
Speaker 2:I also help with concealing the scars. So sometimes after the mastectomy depending on where the cancer is and what type of surgery is done sometimes you know they're left with surgeries across their breasts or the football flap or the paddle flap or some kind of, where they take the donor skin and place it on the areola. Sometimes it's a different color than the breast. So that also bothers patients the fact that it's still visible even though they've gotten their nipple and areola tattoo, the fact that there's still some you know bread, some tissue around the scar. That's not the same color. They want to get that camouflage. So I do that for them as well. So I do scar camouflage along with the areola and nipple tattooing for patients.
Speaker 1:I love that and you know there's some women who are like I love my scars. I wear them with a badge of honor, and that's fantastic.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so again we're talking about options. Some people opt to go flat. They opt not to ever get reconstruction, and so having that option for people who are kind of self-conscious about those scars fabulous, what an awesome, awesome job that I just. I'm so excited that there are those options out there for people. We talked about how it's impacted your life early on. How soon can people get areola tattoos and nipple tattoos after their reconstruction?
Speaker 2:So we always want to make sure that your doctor gives you the green light and it just depends. Normally it's six months after your breast reconstruction and it depends if women choose to do the nipple reconstruction or not. So if they do, we need to wait an additional three months. So that puts you at nine months after the breast reconstruction. But I always say just check with your doctor, make sure that your doctor gives you the green light, because I want to make sure it's safe for you. I might not see something that the doctor sees or he might want you to wait an additional month or an additional two months, and he has his reasons why. So typically it's six months after breast reconstruction, just to make sure the scars have healed. And we're talking about the areola tattooing. So we want to make sure that the placement they've settled where they need to settle it's usually around six months. But I always tell my patients just to make sure that their surgeon gives them the green light to ensure it's safe for them.
Speaker 1:That's a really good point that you make about making sure that your breasts are settling where they're going to settle, because I do know, like I've had I just had my second phase, which is the revision phase. We know that after these surgeries it takes over the months things change. They don't just stay the way that they are. A year from now, mine may look completely different. So it's a really good point that you make there, because you want to make sure that the placement is right, right, absolutely. So how do you choose the colors for the areola? Where does the patient come in on this and how does that work? What does that look like?
Speaker 2:That's a great question and I get that question all the time. I like my patients to be involved, so this is part of the journey and this is really the last step of the journey. So I like to make sure that my patients are involved with the areola tattooing. I always like to ask what is your preferred color? Is it like a pink, like a nude pink, a pink beige, a brown pink? Sometimes they come in with photos of what their breasts looked like before. So to me that's helpful, but for the most part I usually they tell me you're the expert, you know I trust you, you choose the color right. They come to me, they've seen my work and they trust me.
Speaker 2:So I usually like to choose the color based on skin tone color For someone who's very fair. I'm not going to give them a very dark areola, because normally women who are lighter tend to have lighter areolas. Vice versa, a woman who has more melanin in her skin tone. I'm going to gravitate towards a nipple and areola color that's a little bit darker.
Speaker 2:I use the patient's skin tone color to guide me and determine the color, but at the same time I like to ask them do you want to go a little bit darker than what you had before, or a little bit lighter, and women love that because they're like oh, my areolas before were so dark. I definitely want them lighter this time. Or vice versa I have no color in my areolas, I want them to have color. So I always like to ask questions because it helps me choose a color. Ultimately, they trust me and they let me choose the colors. But I also like to ask questions like that because it helps me determine what color I'm going to use and ultimately, it's going to be on their breasts. So I want to make sure that they're happy with the results afterwards. So I take their skin tone into consideration, but at the same time, I let them help me choose the colors according to each patient.
Speaker 1:I love that. It's kind of like lipstick color, like I'm looking at your lipstick and my lipstick.
Speaker 2:And I'll show them the color sometime right, they'll look a little bit different on the bottle, but I always like to make them feel like they're involved. Well, I think a beige pink will look pretty for you or, you know, will complement your skin tone, and I kind of show them and sometimes I do like little swatches on the skin where they can actually see the color and how it's going to look on their breast, and that also helps them too with kind of choosing the color. But ultimately they're like you're the expert, you choose, but I always like to make sure that I am giving them what they actually want.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. One really good thing probably would be to do is like I have a before picture before my phase one surgery. You can clearly see the tone that my nipples were. Yeah, that's very helpful to be able to visually see? Yeah for sure. So how customizable is the tattoo in terms of size and shape and detail?
Speaker 2:Oh, it's absolutely 100% customizable. So if it's a unilateral, I use the unilateral breast to help guide me in terms of size and placement and color. For the other breast I always ask them, you know, if do you want to go a little bit bigger, if we have the opportunity to go bigger? So I like to work with what the surgeon has done. You know, surgeons are so talented nowadays that they're doing an absolutely beautiful job with reconstruction and I know sometimes, you know, they do their true best to make them as symmetrical as possible, but sometimes things happen along the way. I always like to make the surgeon's work stand out more. So what I do is I, if I'm seeing a little bit of asymmetry, I'll play around with the placement of the areolas where the work now looks symmetrical. So it's 100% customizable in terms of size, color, placement.
Speaker 2:I always like to look at the breasts. If the breasts tend to be a bit smaller, I'm going to go with a smaller areola because that's what naturally we have. The breasts tend to be a little bit larger, I'm going to choose a larger areola size because it looks better on the breasts. I always draw it on and let the patient look in the mirror. You know, I say well, you know, I have a circle template and I always show it to them.
Speaker 2:I'm like what does your eye gravitate to in terms of, like, areola size, what are you thinking? You know, and they'll choose one and they're like well, what do you think? I'm like I'm going to draw on the one that you chose and I'm going to draw the one that I think looks good. That way we have options, that way you get to see in the mirror and they're like okay, that's a good idea. So I'll put, if it's a bilateral, I'll choose one size and then the size they chose and kind of let them determine what they want to go with, cause that's ultimately, like I said, it's their breasts. So I want to make sure that they're happy with what we're doing and for the most part, you know, we're kind of along the same page what they choose and what I think looks best. Usually we're on the same page and then, based on the areola size, I'll choose the nipple size.
Speaker 2:I'll draw the areola and then I'll choose the nipple that complements the areola because we don't want a super large nipple if the areola is small, or vice versa.
Speaker 1:I have an interesting question for you. I'm curious what you would say. There was a post the other day that said something to the effect of how much should a woman's partner man or whatever be part of the decision making? Do you ever have women come in with their boyfriends or husbands and what does that look like in your office? Like, do you, I mean, do you empower the woman? And if you see a man that's kind of making some decisions or say, you know, bringing in his, yeah, I have had husbands that come in with their wife and they kind of well, what do you think?
Speaker 2:You know, what do you think? But ultimately I focus on the patient. I want to make sure that the last say is the patient. I think it's important and it's a beautiful thing when they bring in their husband and they have that supportive partner. I absolutely love to see that. But ultimately I want the patient to make the last decision. So when they look at their husband and their back and forth, I was like what do you think or what do you want? I always remind them that it's about them. They're here for them. It's absolutely beautiful that they have a supportive partner, but ultimately I always want to make sure that my focus is on the patient. So I always ask them what do you think, what do you want? Making it about them, because it's truly about the patient ultimately Right it is.
Speaker 1:There was a point in time where I had to explain to my husband that my breast surgery, the type of breast surgery I was having, was my decision ultimately, because it's my body, and so I feel like that was such an interesting question to put out there. I think it was Perky who put it out there that said should a man be involved in the decision making? Anyway, lots of women are like a hard no.
Speaker 2:I mean, I do think it's beautiful to have men's support, but ultimately the decisions should be the passion, it's your body. So I think you have the last say as to the placement, the color, everything. I am a true book Like. I love empowering women. So when I see that, I love the husband's support, but I always remind them like, what do you want? Like, don't lose focus on you, you're doing this for yourself, it's about you. This really is a life changing service that empowers women. When they look in the mirror, I see their reaction To me. That's truly. There's no words to describe what I feel after seeing that. So I want to remind them that this is for you, do this for you.
Speaker 1:I love the fact that they want to make sure that their husbands or their partners are okay with it, but don't lose focus on you, right, and there are some women who have a very difficult time understanding that their husbands are not the boss of their body or anything like that, and I know that there's some cultures that that's just how it is, and so I'm like I just want to tell people no, this is your decision, ultimately, your body, I mean. Anyway, we talked about asymmetry and how you can help with creating that illusion also.
Speaker 1:And then tattooing over surgical reconstructed nipple mounds. Is that possible?
Speaker 2:Absolutely. That's a really common question that I get if women are like well, what if I choose to go through with the nipple mounds? Is that possible? Absolutely, that's a really common question that I get if women are like well, what if I choose to go through with the nipple reconstruction? Can it still be tattooed over, since technically it's going to be scar tissue? And the answer is yes, absolutely, it can be tattooed over.
Speaker 2:And there's a need for it because for the most part it's not going to have color, so it's going to be like a skin tone color, depending on where they that Like. They usually take it from like cartilage from the ear. That's a very popular way of doing the nipple reconstruction, at least here in Houston. They take cartilage from the ear, so they use that to reconstruct the nipple. So for the most part it needs the color. So it just adds. It makes it more realistic. In my opinion, when we add the color and we start really playing with all the details and the contrasting color and the highlight colors, it just creates a truly realistic 3D areola and nipple. So yes, absolutely it can be tattooed over, surgically reconstructed nipples Gosh fascinating.
Speaker 1:I had no idea how they did that. I was wondering where they take that from.
Speaker 2:I mean, I've heard of multiple like they. Also I've had one patient who they were able to I think it's called like splitting or something where they took half of her. She had a unilateral, so they took her existing nipple and they cut it in half and they use that as donor for the other side. It's amazing. I mean, I learned so much every day because there's so many different techniques and different ways of doing it and there's the skills are constantly advancing and it's beautiful to see what they're doing and it's so realistic. So I've heard of multiple ways of doing the nipple reconstruction and it's truly fascinated to learn and to be more aware of what can be done.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's really cool. I'm blown away and I tell people this all the time. It's like I don't know everything about everything at all, and so I learn so much every single episode that I do. It's like, oh my God, I closed the computer. I'm like, babe, I just learned the coolest thing. Okay, so how long does the tattoo last and will it fade over time?
Speaker 2:It's meant to be permanent. So when you think of tattooing, you know tattooing is permanent If the correct technique is used. If we reach the correct depth, we should be tattooing in the second layer of the skin, where it's trapped in the dermal layer. It's meant to be permanent. It usually around a five year is like the recommended touch up. It's going to fade a little bit over time, just like tattoos do.
Speaker 2:It's not gonna go away, but the color might not be as vibrant and some women like that because they think it looks more natural. When it starts fading they think it looks a little bit more natural and it mimics more of how an areola looks. And some women really like the vibrancy. They're used to seeing the color. So when it starts fading they want to come back in for a touch-up and they really want to get the colors packed back in. So we usually recommend every five to seven years for a touch-up. So it's not something that requires maintenance on a yearly basis. It shouldn't for the most part, because we were dealing with compromised tissue. We don't want to be tattooing every year. So it's important to go to someone who understands the correct depth and how to do it correctly from the beginning, because we don't want to cause more trauma than needed.
Speaker 1:So those are part of questions that I would like to actually include on the website is what questions should you ask a nipple tattoo artist when you're consulting with them? Right, so right. I mean, and part of that is what is your technique, what is your shared decision-making philosophy, things like that, and how do you deal with it? To make them more symmetrical, I would just say a list of questions would be really cool if you could send those to me. Yeah absolutely.
Speaker 2:I'm more than happy to do that. Okay, I think it's important for women to. Sometimes we don't know what questions to ask. We're not an expert in the field, so you want to make sure that when you're choosing a tattoo artist, especially for something so personal you want to make sure that you know what to ask, if you're asking the right questions or the wrong questions. I think that's super important.
Speaker 2:It is a growing field and I love that that more artists are getting involved, but it doesn't necessarily mean that they know what they're doing right, so it's extremely important that it's something that I take it very seriously. I don't think it's fair for a woman to go to someone who doesn't have the experience or you know who's just starting off. I truly believe that if you're going to get this done, you should be going to someone that specializes in it, that truly understands how the skin reacts, um, how it should be looking, how to tattoo correctly. Also, how is the color going to age over time? So, understanding the color theory behind it and how it's going to heal with your skin tone over the years, that's absolutely important as well.
Speaker 1:The kind of surgery, the autologous surgery, that I had. That was where they take the tissue. I had the deep flap surgery. They don't have that where I live. That is why I had to go out of town. And then I learned later on that I think there's one surgeon here who has one of the flap surgeries on his menu, but I wouldn't go to that person. That person is not a microsurgeon. They do not do hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of these kinds of surgeries. So it's the same type of thing you want to ask are you a microsurgeon? They do not do hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of these kinds of surgeries. So it's the same type of thing you want to ask Are you a microsurgeon?
Speaker 1:Are you a tattoo artist? Are you specifically a areola and nipple tattoo artist? So yeah, such powerful questions to ask, you do not want to just go to any old tattoo artist down the street, right? Okay, Absolutely not. I have a question for you. I'm curious. What other women have said is that when we get our breasts done, we lose sensation in our breasts, and so I am curious is the procedure painful?
Speaker 2:You know that's a great question. I would say about 98% of my patients don't feel it and if they do, it's very minimal for the same reason that the nerve endings have been cut during surgery. So they don't really feel much. Usually six months they're still kind of numb. What I've noticed is that women who are maybe three years out.
Speaker 2:Four years out five years out have much more sensation than when it's something that's more recent because you know they've allowed time to go on. Maybe the nerves have reconnected, but for the most part it's very tolerable. It's not painful and if it is, I use secondary numbing to make it the patient comfortable. So I want this to be a comfortable experience, something that is not extremely painful, but I would say 98 of my patients. They are really comfortable throughout the procedure. We're having a conversation, so it's not very painful.
Speaker 1:Time frame, so like, if you're getting both of yours done, approximately how long does the procedure take? Just the procedure alone? Maybe 40 minutes? Okay, not bad, not bad. So you do the mapping, kind of like when we do surgery stuff they mark you up. Okay, yeah, not bad. Insurance Do you have paperwork that you give, because I know that some insurance companies you can't just get an order to go get a nipple tattoo necessarily. Do you have paperwork that you give to your patients?
Speaker 2:Yes, so usually what we do I work with a third party insurance company and we get it pre-authorized for the patient. Oh, They'll go through and they touch base with the insurance because a lot goes in with insurance. Have they met their deductible? You know there's a lot of things that insurance they want you to ask before you get it done. So we all ask for a pre-authorization and then they'll let us know. Like you know, insurance covers it or insurance will cover up to this amount, or whatever it is. If the patients have insurance, we'll do that for them and we'll let them know what the answer is from their specific insurance carrier.
Speaker 1:That's really cool, really good to know, okay, and I mean I know that everyone's situation is different, maybe I don't know. I mean, I know that is true, but cost what are we expecting in cost for two nipple tattoos?
Speaker 2:It depends if you're paying out of pocket or if you're using insurance. With insurance we don't get to set the price Insurance does. We never know what insurance is going to bill the patient for. Sometimes it depends If it's Blue Cross, they have a set amount already. It just really depends on patient per patient. For patients that maybe their deductible is too high, they don't want to go through insurance, they want to do cash pay. I always do a discount for breast cancer survivors. So my cash prize for cancer survivors for both areolas it's $500. So it's $250 per side and that includes all touch-ups necessary. Nice, so there's no additional cost. I like to do a touch-up six weeks after, just to make sure that all the details stayed, if we need to go over another area a little bit more color. So all the sessions that are needed are included in the cost For insurance. It varies. We don't put a price on the insurance. The insurance does. But for cash pay I do a discounted price for cancer survivors.
Speaker 1:Good, well, thank you for doing that. That's really. That is your way of giving back to the community and that's really amazing. You also are bilingual, yes, so you Spanish speaking patients and. English can come in, and that's awesome.
Speaker 2:Yes, 100% Spanish. My native tongue is Spanish, so I love it. Love it.
Speaker 1:Gracias De nada. My husband is actually pretty fluent. He'll tell you straight up. He's like my Spanish sucks, but he's actually really good. He helps us a lot when we're in Mexico, and same with my brother, so it's kind of funny. I love that. To wrap this up, what advice do you have for people considering to get nipple tattoos after mastectomy and reconstruction? What's like one big piece of advice.
Speaker 2:You have my biggest piece of advice is to really do this for you. Don't let anyone talk you into it, whether it's family members, or whether it's your significant other, your partner. Ultimately, it's just a decision that you should make for yourself, something that's when you look in the mirror, you're proud to have on your breasts, and it's something that you chose to do it for yourself and for no one else.
Speaker 1:Cool. Well, I do find that a lot of women who have nipple tattoos they like to show each other, so it's like I have never flashed so many people in my life but I don't have them yet. But I mean just the reconstruction because, seriously, you know, when you get breast cancer you really feel like you're never going to be whole again, and I was devastated when I found out I had to have mastectomy and I'm like that is an amputation of your breasts and women in general love their breasts. I know I did. I really had a hard time being able to believe that I was actually going to feel good about myself again and Dr Cabling at Center for Restorative Breast Surgery did that for me. For that I am so grateful and I'm super excited to do nipple tattoos.
Speaker 2:I'm excited for you. I really am. I'm excited for you. I always get just as excited as a patient because I know the emotional and physical aspect that goes behind it.
Speaker 1:So every time I have someone that reaches out, I'm always so excited to meet them and have them come in and just to be part of their journey, because I know what it's going to do for them, right, and I will say that just the mere fact that you do this and you focus on breast cancer patients you know a lot about breast cancer probably more than a lot of other people, because of the stories that you hear. So I feel like you are one of those people. If that ever did happen to you God forbid that it ever does, but if it did, you would have so much information and you would just have that much more knowledge than a lot of other people do when they get diagnosed that you're like okay. So like I'm like you know that if that ever happened to you, you probably know who you would go to to get your surgery or to get your nipple tattoos and things like that. If it came to that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I do. I truly do feel like I learn something every day. I learn something every day and I love, you know, when women open up and they tell me how they found out they had breast cancer. You know it's so different for everyone. Either it was their screening, or they felt a lump, or they were pregnant and something wasn't looking right with the pregnancy. So it's just there's a different way that they have discovered that they have breast cancer and to me it is important to share that with others because it's more than anything, raising awareness and being an advocate for yourself. If you feel something, say something yeah, no matter what age is?
Speaker 2:because now I've had patients who are young. I think the youngest patient I had in my chair she was diagnosed when she was 19 years old. So you know, with with diagrams they deny it because of our age and because you're young. But if you feel something, please say something, advocate for yourself and go to a different doctor and someone that's going to listen to you because you're advocating for your life.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. And again, this is one of the reasons that part of my audience that I want to reach are people who've never been diagnosed, and I did have a friend saying but it's not on their radar, and my response to that is it needs to be on their radar, absolutely. If you have boobs, it should be on your radar. That's what I would say.
Speaker 2:Definitely you need to start performing self exams. You know when you're taking a shower or something, because it's so important to what we call it auto explore Taking a shower or something, because it's so important to what we call it auto-explore, right.
Speaker 1:Auto-explore and really you know if something wasn't there that you realized it wasn't there and now it is, and visually not just feeling, but visually if you have discharge, if you have an inverted nipple, if you have a dent somewhere on one side that you've never seen before, go and get it checked out and thank you, Advocate for yourself, Put your foot down. Absolutely. We are women. Hear us roar.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, I love that it kind of goes along with my little shirt. All right, this has been such a pleasure talking to you and I'm just really grateful for what you do. I would love for my audience to know how to get in touch with you. I have your website. I've got your Instagram handle on the show notes. I have your phone number, your email address, and is there anything you'd like to leave us with before we wrap up?
Speaker 2:I would just say that each and every one of you is amazing, especially us as women. I think we're here to empower one another and I absolutely love what you're doing for the community. I think you're building a community for women to feel safe, to feel safe, to feel like they have a group where you know they might remember well, I remember hearing this on Jamie's podcast, so I'm going to go back and what you're creating for the community is absolutely beautiful, it's amazing, it's empowering women and I would I have to say anything is we need more women like you.
Speaker 2:We need more women like you, who are really you're taking this under your wing, you're building awareness and I think you're touching many lives for women who are not familiar with what breast cancer is. So, if God forbid, something were to happen, I think they have such a beautiful resource to come back to.
Speaker 1:That's my ultimate goal and I've had a lot of help with that with my guests, such as you and the surgeons and other survivors. I have people who are encouraging me and I just would love for people to listen to all of the episodes so that they are just have such a well-rounded education on all of this and go to the website or go to the podcast platform that you listen to, and I would love for people to like and share and leave a comment, because it really does truly make a difference. So, thank you, miroslava, and to my audience, thank you again for joining us on this episode of Test those Breasts and again, please go to your platform that you love the most, that you listen to and rate this podcast, leave a message if you can like, leave a. I know Apple can, but I know Spotify. You can't leave a review, but all of that helps and I just appreciate everyone being on this episode again and have a wonderful day. I'll see you next time, on the next episode of Test those Breasts.
Speaker 1:Friends, thank you so much for listening to this episode of Test those Breasts. I hope you got some great, much needed information that will help you with your journey. As always, I am open to guests to add value to my show and I'm also open to being a guest on other podcasts where I can add value. So please reach out if you'd like to collaborate. My contact information is in the show notes and, as a reminder, rating reviewing and sharing this podcast will truly help build a bigger audience all over the world. I thank you for your efforts. I look forward to sharing my next episode of Test those Breasts. Thank you,
