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Test Those Breasts ™️
This podcast by Jamie Vaughn is a deep-dive discussion on a myriad of breast cancer topics, such as early detection, the initial shock of diagnosis, testing/scans, treatment, loss of hair, caregiving, surgery, emotional support, and advocacy.
These episodes will include breast cancer survivors, thrivers, caregivers, surgeons, oncologists, therapists, and other specialists who can speak to many different topics.
Disclaimer: I am not a doctor and not all information in this podcast comes from qualified health care providers, therefore does not constitute medical advice. For personalized medical advice, you should reach out to one of the qualified healthcare providers interviewed on this podcast and/or seek medical advice from your own providers.
Test Those Breasts ™️
Episode 65: Empowered by Knowledge: Jennifer Burgoyne's Cancer Battle
Have you ever felt completely lost and overwhelmed by a sudden medical diagnosis? Join us as we sit down with Jennifer Toth Burgoyne , a mother of four and breast cancer survivor, who shares her deeply personal journey from diagnosis to reconstruction surgery. Jennifer recounts how the "Test Those Breasts" podcast provided her with the crucial information and support needed to make informed decisions about her health. We also explore Jennifer's life before cancer, her love for an active lifestyle in Hoboken, New Jersey, and the emotional challenges she faced following her diagnosis. Her story highlights the monumental role that community and accurate information play during such tough times.
Additionally, we dive into the world of breast reconstruction options, featuring personal experiences with different procedures such as the PAP flap and the DIEP flap technique. We discuss the necessity of skilled microsurgeons, the support provided by hospital staff, and the emotional challenges that accompany reconstruction. We also touch on societal stigmas and the impact of well-meaning, yet sometimes hurtful comments. By emphasizing the significance of early detection and education, especially for younger women, this episode serves as a beacon of strength and resilience for breast cancer survivors, offering practical advice and support for those navigating their own journeys.
Contact Jennifer:
Jenburgoyne66@gmail.com
Jennifer Toth Burgoyne on Instagram
Jennifer Toth Burgoyne on Facebook
Are you loving the Test Those Breasts! Podcast? You can show your support by donating to the Test Those Breasts Nonprofit @ https://testthosebreasts.org/donate/
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Jamie Vaughn in the News!
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I am not a doctor and not all information in this podcast comes from qualified healthcare providers, therefore may not constitute medical advice. For personalized medical advice, you should reach out to one of the qualified healthcare providers interviewed on this podcast and/or seek medical advice from your own providers .
Hello friends, welcome back to the Test those Breasts podcast. I am your host, jamie Vaughn. I'm a retired teacher of 20 years and a breast cancer thriver turned staunch, unapologetic, loud supporter and advocate for others, bringing education and awareness through a myriad of medical experts, therapists, caregivers and other survivors. A breast cancer diagnosis is incredibly overwhelming, with the mounds of information out there, and other survivors A breast cancer diagnosis is incredibly overwhelming, with the mounds of information out there, especially on Dr Google. I get it. I'm not a doctor and I know how important it is to uncover accurate information, which is my ongoing mission through my nonprofit. The podcast includes personal stories and opinions from breast cancer survivors and professional physicians, providing the most up-to-date information. At the time of recording Evidence, research and practices are always changing, so please check the date of the recording and always refer to your medical professionals for the most up-to-date information. I hope you find this podcast a source of inspiration and support from my guests. Their contact information is in the show notes, so please feel free to reach out to them. We have an enormous breast cancer community ready to support you in so many ways. Now let's listen to the next episode of Test those Breasts. Hey friends, welcome back to this episode of Test those Breasts. I'm your host, jamie Vaughn, and I am super excited to have my new pink sister that I've met. She ran across my podcast and we'll talk about that in just a few minutes.
Speaker 1:Her name is Jennifer Burgoyne, and Jennifer is the mother of four adult children and wife to John. She and her husband raised their children in the New Jersey suburbs and during COVID they impulsively decided to sell it all and move back to where it began for them 35 years earlier. To what is it? Hoboken, new Jersey, hoboken. They swapped their suburban spread for an apartment, got rid of the extra cars and furniture and now thoroughly enjoy their downsized, empty nest lives in the exurbs of New York City. She works part-time as a sales associate at Anthropologie and when not walking her dog Belle, you can find her at Yoga, pilates, riding city bike or city bike around town oh, it's called city bike nice. I want to do that. She and john love to travel and enjoy spending time with their large extended families. Hi, jennifer, what a fun life you have. I'm excited for your life. I love it. Feel great. How are you doing today?
Speaker 2:I'm doing great, thank you. I'm almost six weeks out from my reconstruction surgery and each week that goes by, my body is healing better and better.
Speaker 1:Awesome, so good to hear. Well, you know, you and I were having this conversation. You and I texted back and forth, emailed messaged on Facebook. Can you tell our audience how you ran across me?
Speaker 2:Sure, so I was diagnosed with breast cancer back in September and I just started listening, like finding breast cancer podcasts. I walk my dog a lot. I love listening cancer podcasts. I walk my dog a lot, I love listening to podcasts. So just by chance, I stumbled upon your podcast and I started with your first season listening and then you had an episode where you were interviewing your deep flap surgeon and at that point I was on the fence about what type of reconstruction surgery I was going to do and I listened to that podcast and it changed my mind. I was so grateful for the clarity because I'd been going back and forth and I came home and I found your information. I sent you a text, I think I sent you a message on Facebook or I found your Facebook and I just said thank you, thank you so much. I needed to hear this and ever since then I've been your number one fan.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh, you have no idea how much I appreciate your sharing that, because I remember when I was first diagnosed. As you know, we're like in a world of what the F is going on here. I don't even know up from down and I was confused. I didn't even have surgery on my radar at that time. But luckily I was led to the kind of surgery that the autologous surgery, where they use the tissue from your body to reconstruct your breasts I was heading down my audience knows that I've been I was heading down the implant road and which I have nothing against. I just personally didn't want them.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And so when I started this podcast last year, one of my biggest goals missions was to reach people like you and to help people make the decision and understand where the really awesome surgeons and, of course, my Dr Cabling is amazing and so I'm just thrilled that this podcast reached you and you were able to make the decision that you did, and we're going to talk about your surgery that you ended up having. So I want to start off with who was Jennifer before breast cancer, because we all know that things change, and for a lot of times for the better, and because we have a lot of silver linings. But I always love to ask the question who the person was before breast cancer. So who was Jennifer?
Speaker 2:Well, I like my bio. We, my husband and I we. Our youngest child is finishing up her senior year in college. Our youngest child is finishing up her senior year in college. We're so enjoying our empty nest life. I mean, you know, after all the hard work of raising four children and my husband has his own business and being a partner and a sister daughter, I sound like a just life and relationships and we were just enjoying being with each other. I got a part-time job at Anthropologie I'm the second oldest person in my store that works there but I loved it. I was around all these young people that weren't my kids and I mean I love my kids, but that's who I was and we were traveling more, just kind of enjoying our lives. So that's who I was and you know now I'm a lot different, but yeah.
Speaker 1:And then breast cancer hitches, kind of like when I retired. I was so excited to have the retired life. I found out one week after I retired and my husband and I had all kinds of plans and that changed very quickly. Yeah, it's. It kind of just smacks you right upside the head and reality sets in, right, yes, and hopefully you are getting back to the things that you wanted to do, and it just takes a little while. So what was your breast cancer diagnosis and what were your treatments like?
Speaker 2:Okay. So I was diagnosed with invasive ductal carcinoma. I had two tumors on my right breast, stage one, grade two, so they were relatively small. But the problem that was explained to me, the normal course of treatment for what I have would be a lumpectomy plus radiation. But where my two tumors were located and the size of my breast, my surgeon felt that it would just of my breast. My surgeon felt that it would just. She said I would have to take too much out of your breast, including the margins with the two spots. You're not going to be left with anything. And she said my recommendation is to do a partial, a nipple-sparing mastectomy. And so that's what I did and I chose. And with that comes reconstruction. So she works with two plastic surgeons that are micro surgeons and they offered me, when I went for my consultation, autologous reconstruction. So that's what they mainly do, that's their sort of thing.
Speaker 2:And then after that was implant-based reconstruction. So we talked about the pros and cons of both of those, but I was so emotionally vulnerable I guess I don't even know how to describe it from getting the diagnosis and then the next thing I know a mastectomy and reconstruction and expanders and all this stuff that I shut down. I said I can't make this decision right now and thankfully my doctors were very patient with me and they said you know what? You don't have to do anything now. Me, and they said you know what? You don't have to do anything now. We can put an expander in. You can have the expander for a year. Just take your time and come to the decision that fits you the best. And I was grateful for that, because I think my fear-based reaction was to take it all out and then put it all back in. Right, I mean, I just wanted me to be whole. I didn't want to lose my breast, and I didn't really ever kind of think about my breasts that much. I mean, it wasn't until I had the reality that I'm going to have it removed, that I was like, oh my gosh, I don't want this to happen. My breasts have served me well. I breastfed all four of my children. I didn't care that they were small. I mean, that's really what I wanted.
Speaker 2:And, as I said, it took me a while to figure out what type of surgery would work the best for me and for what resonated most with who I was, and so I had a partial nipple, sparing mastectomy in November. So I had a partial nipple sparing mastectomy in November and they also took out my lymph nodes and everything came back clear. It was incredible because, you know, I went back to the surgeon, they took off my bandages and I don't know what I was expecting, but I started to cry because my breast looked the same. I mean, it was flattened out a little but it still was there and I remember just being so happy, like so grateful that it wasn't mutilated and it was still there.
Speaker 2:And then, as the weeks went on and I started healing from the mastectomy, I started to kind of come around in my thinking. And that's when I listened to your podcast with Dr Cabling and I thought to myself you know what I am really, first of all, very fortunate that I live in an area where this is offered and, secondly, that my doctors do it and I'm a candidate for it. I just needed the time to come to that decision. And when I spoke to my family my husband and my sisters, and you know everybody was like wow, that's incredible, very supportive of it. So that's really what happened to me. So I had the mastectomy with the reconstruction, or the first phase, in November and then on February 29th on leap day I had my reconstruction surgery. The autologous path flap. So that's my story. So I'm almost six weeks out from that and I'm still recovering. But other than that, I'm you know, I'm feeling good.
Speaker 1:I love that and you look really good too. You have a glow about you and just shining through and I just am so happy that it worked out that way, even though you had to go through all of that fear and anxiety and all of that. I want to walk back a little bit.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:What were you like taking care of your breast health before? How did you find that breast cancer? What happened there?
Speaker 2:It was funny I had actually missed my yearly gynecological. I missed my gynecological.
Speaker 1:Gynecological. I know it's hard to say Oncological, gynecological, oncologist.
Speaker 2:Many big words here. I missed my exam. It was supposed to be in May. And then, as I mentioned before, my youngest daughter was going back to college and she turned 21. So we go to the same. I have three daughters, we all go to the same gynecologist. And she said to me mom, dr Kim wants to give me a pap, a pap whatever, a pap smear or whatever. And she was really nervous about it. And I thought you know what? I missed my exam back in May. Why don't we go together and I can? I'm not going to be in there in the room with you, but at least I'll get my exam and we can drive there together. So we did. And so my doctor gave me the script for the mammo and I thought I don't know, I was in doctor mode. So I just called and made an appointment. I got in.
Speaker 2:It was the end of the summer, a lot of people were on vacation. I got in right away and I think it was like the day maybe two days later. I'm having breakfast with my husband. It's early and my phone rings and I pick it up and it was the radiologist and they said you know what? We found something on your right breast. We'd like you to come back and we're going to do a more in-depth mammogram and a sonogram. So I was like, okay, now I do have dense breasts and a sonogram. So I was like, okay, now I do have dense breasts, so this has happened to me in the past. I didn't really think anything of it. So I went back in and I did the sonogram and the other mammogram and they told me to go wait, you know, in the waiting room and you know, for a little bit so the radiologist can review. And I sat there, you know, in 20 minutes, half an hour, and I'm just sitting there, you know, on my phone, and finally they come out and they bring me into the little room and the radiologist is there and I knew, I just knew that it wasn't good news. And so she said we don't know for sure, but it looks like you have breast cancer, but we'd like to do a core biopsy and find out for sure. And I was like okay. And then she's like can you come back tomorrow? And I was like, okay, so I go back, and they did the core biopsy in the two areas.
Speaker 2:My husband and I were actually leaving for a vacation a few days later and we were going to Europe and I've never had a breast biopsy or anything and I was kind of freaking out. I mean I was like, oh my gosh, the big needle. And then you're shooting I don't know zinc or I don't know the titanium in my breast. And the girl and one of the nurses, like don't worry, you'll be able to get through the security at the airport. And I'm like, oh my gosh, what the hell is going on?
Speaker 2:I go home and I remember I said to my husband I'm like this isn't good. I said there was nothing, like no one was laughing in that room. No one was like, oh, it's just a cyst that we found and it looks benign. I mean, there was none of that. So then my gynecologist called me and she said I'm so sorry, jen, that you're going through this. And I said me too, but I'm going on vacation. Like what should we do? And she's like just go on vacation and whatever it is, we'll deal with it when you get home.
Speaker 2:So of course we're away for almost two weeks and the night before we were due to come back, my phone just starts blowing up and it was all these weird numbers from like Romania. I'm like what is this? And I clicked on my messages and I saw it was the radiologist and they had put the report in my patient portal and of course I clicked on it. I mean I knew that I couldn't do any. You know, obviously I couldn't do anything about it. And we were on our. You know, we had a long journey home and I read it and I saw carcinoma and I had stage one, grade two, two spots. So I knew it wasn't a shock. I mean it wasn't a shock in the sense that I knew, I suspected that it was cancer and they were pretty upfront with me about it. But the shock was yet to come. I guess that's the reality hadn't set in. I mean, considering that I'm 57 years old, I've got three sisters, my mom's still alive. I have friends that have had breast cancer.
Speaker 2:I knew nothing about breast cancer. I thought when you had breast cancer they were in both the breasts. I thought you had to have a mastectomy or chemotherapy or I knew nothing. I knew absolutely nothing about breast cancer. So when I went to the breast surgeon for a consultation, I mean it was like learning a new language. I mean she basically had a chart and was like this is what you have ER positive, pr positive, her2 negative little picture of the plus, plus and minus. I mean all these things that I was like what Hormonal receptive? I mean all these things that I was like what Hormonal receptive? I mean I really knew absolutely nothing. It was a huge shock and a big learning curve and I don't think I really woke up, I don't think it really sunk in my diagnosis until I had the mastectomy. I was just completely in this like alternative universe of breast cancer. I kind of went through my day and I did what I had to do but I was completely like sucked in to breast cancer land and, as I talked about this before, like learning a new language, literally had to learn a new language. It was funny.
Speaker 2:There are kind of funny things that come out of this journey but I had an old friend that was diagnosed around the same time I was. People had put us together and so we kind of rekindled our friendship over this. We would talk on the phone and we would laugh so hard and she'd say to me, how do we pronounce this AI thing, like aromatose inhibitor, like AI? And we were like, oh my gosh, there should be like a breast cancer for dummies podcast. How do you pronounce all these new words that we are learning and all these symbols and what they mean?
Speaker 2:And she says is it her too negative or is it she's like, I can see the? I can see it, but how do we say that there have been little bright spots in this journey? And that was one of them? But yeah, so that's really my story. And then once I decided to do the autologous reconstruction. So I was not a candidate for the deep flap because of my abdominal tissue. So I had to go and get the MRA, that special MRI, and from that they determined that they could do the pap flap, and from that they determined that they could do the pap flap. And that's what I did. So they took the skin and the tissue from my inner thigh and then they recreated my breast with that.
Speaker 1:It's amazing what they can do. You talked about how you had missed your mammogram or it was delayed, or whatever. One of the reasons I started this podcast last year was because early detection is incredibly important. You didn't have to go through chemotherapy. You caught it real early. Is that Well?
Speaker 2:they tested. So my oncotype yeah, we did an oncotype and my one tumor was. So the cutoff was 25. So if it was 25 and over, chemotherapy would help me. I came in right under it was 23 on one tumor and 16 on the other tumor. So that negated the chemotherapy. They weren't sure about if there was a lymph node involvement. So there was a possibility after the mastectomy that I would have had to have radiation with my lymph nodes. They didn't think I would have to for my MRI but they're not a hundred percent until they actually go in there, take them out, send them out. So those came back. I was fortunate, I was very fortunate.
Speaker 1:So those came back clear, so those came back. I was fortunate. I was very fortunate, so those came back clear. That's pretty similar to mine. They didn't know if I would have had to have radiation until after the surgery Turned out I didn't. All my lymph nodes and margins were all clear, which was nice. Had you waited to get your mammogram, it would have been a different story.
Speaker 2:I think so. Had I skipped a year? Because I mean, that's really where the direction that I was going, you know, I was like, oh, I'll just do it next year. I mean, and I've had years in the past. I mean, I think during COVID, I think, I skipped a year. As I said, I never, intellectually, ever believed that I would ever get breast cancer, which is so ridiculous.
Speaker 1:I always thought other people got breast cancer. Me too, and I was like well, even though I knew I had had lumpectomies in the past that were benign, even though I knew that the statistics, I knew what my friend's doctor said about it's not a matter of if you're going to get breast cancer, it's when right. Even though I knew that in the back of my mind it was like you know, I go in every year, I check them. It's it's what happens to other people.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, I know me too, I mean, and I was a little. I mean I was, I was like a breastfed all those little fuckers Like four kids for like at least a year and I thought I'm protected Because I used to go to, you know, la Leche Lake meetings and they always used to say like, oh, breastfeeding I mean, if you breastfeed it protects you from breast cancer. So that like stuck in my head and I'm very arrogant, but I just kind of believe that.
Speaker 1:I really do. Well, there's a lot of misinformation out there. There's a lot of myths like soy gives you breast cancer. It does not. That is like a total myth and I believed it for years. I stopped eating any soy. Then I was on this weight loss program a year prior. That has some soy not a ton of soy, but some in there and I had someone insinuate that I gave it to myself because of the soy and come to find out that was a bunch of bullshit. So anyway, but that early detection piece you I am sure that you are hopefully pretty vocal to other people about the importance of not skipping your mammogram, making sure that you're taking care of your breath health and making sure that you're listening to your body, because one in eight women get breast cancer and women are getting younger, so I would imagine you are helping to educate your daughters about this. And on top of that, did you say you had it in your family?
Speaker 2:I have two first cousins that have breast cancer on both sides, but they did the genetic testing on me and I don't have BRCA or the mutations.
Speaker 1:So that's the same for me. No one in my family that I know of had breast cancer and they did the genetic test on me. Nothing came out for me and then I found out that more people who don't have it in their family get breast cancer. There's people out there who think, oh well, I don't know, I don't have it in my family, so I'm not going to get it. That is just not the proper information.
Speaker 1:People need to understand that if you are a woman or a man, you need to take care of your breast health. You need to be aware of any changes that are going on visually and feeling your breasts and your armpits and all of that, and just being aware and listening to your intuition and things like that. So early detection is where it's at, because it's going to suck. It doesn't no matter what way you look at it, it sucks to get breast cancer. But you know, if it's caught early enough, it's a whole heck of a lot better and your chances of survival are just so much better. Let's talk about the pap flap. You're the first person I've heard that has had the pap flap. So what is your experience? How are your healing, how's your healing going and all of that.
Speaker 2:Well, that's why I wrote to you, because I thought it's the second most popular form of autologous reconstruction, after the deep, and I thought we should talk about it, because there are women that aren't eligible for the deep flap for scar tissue, or they don't have enough tissue on their stomach or whatever it is, and so the pap is the second donor site. So when I realized that I wanted to do the reconstruction, that I didn't want to have an implant that's really the only choice, that I had to do the pap my doctors showed me pictures of patients that he had and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and I went online and I did research, blah, but I hadn't talked to anyone that had ever had a pap flap. Everyone had the deep flap. The people that I knew or I heard from so-and-so and so-and-so's cousins, mothers, sisters had the deep flap. I kind of knew what to expect, but I kind of went in cold and I knew that I wasn't going to change my mind. I knew that this is what I wanted to do and so, anyway, I didn't realize all the nitty gritty stuff, but I'm glad I didn't because, as I said, I didn't want to change my mind. I didn't want anything to sort of cloud my kind of determination.
Speaker 2:It was a six hour surgery, two doctors work at the same time. They cut open my inner thigh, like very close to the groin area, like your bikini line, and they take the skin and the fat and the tissue from that area and then they put it into my breast. So I already had the nipple sparing mastectomy. So I guess they just have to kind of put it in there and reattach all the blood vessels and the nerves and this and that and then sew me up down here, sew me up here. I was in the hospital for three nights and four days. I did have a blood transfusion. The second day my hemoglobin levels dropped. So that was really the only complication, if you could call it that. They said you know, you have the Doppler on your breast to make sure that the tissue is doing what it's supposed to do the nerves and the cells and whatnot.
Speaker 2:I felt, you know, I had the drains. I had two drains coming out of my breast, one coming out of my thigh. I hit that big vacuum suction thing right there. It was pleasant, great nurses. I have to say I was actually happy that I was in the hospital. I know it sounds crazy, but they were emptying the drains and taking care of everything when I had my mastectomy. It was a same-day procedure, so they sent me home with the drains. I mean, my husband and I were like what the hell? It was worse. It's almost like when we had our first child and they're like here you go and you're like, bye, see ya. You know that learning curve and cleaning out drains and honestly, even though I had four kids, I was not that mom that was into first aid or anything. I mean, I was, I wasn't I was like you know.
Speaker 1:it's really interesting. I would love to know number one, the hospital that you were got your surgery and your doctor's names. Who were your doctors?
Speaker 2:I had the surgery at Valley Hospital in Ridgewood, new Jersey, and my doctors were Dr Breslow and Dr Greening.
Speaker 1:They're both microsurgeons.
Speaker 2:They're microsurgeons.
Speaker 1:And they work as a team.
Speaker 2:They work as a team, love that, and they work with my breast surgeon, so she was the one that recommended them.
Speaker 1:Love that you really left out. I left out, you really did, because there are a lot of situations where that is not the case, where the breast surgeon is working with the or at least recommending different kinds of surgery. So where I live that I'm there's no one that I know who does the autologous surgeries. Here. I think there's one doctor who has something on his menu, but he's not one to do hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of these things, and nor is he a microsurgeon. So to find a plastic microsurgeon in our country is really one of my missions. I'm trying to uncover where all the good ones are, because I want people to know where their options are Like. For me, I went to New Orleans just because that was recommended to me, and then I've been very successful on uncovering where other ones are, like a Dr Elizabeth Potter, dr Garza, dr Crisopolo, dr Gassman and Dr Sharuna Basa in LA. So I want people to know geographically where all these great surgeons are, so that they know that they don't have to travel too far away. If they're, some are closer to them, but on the other hand, I also want people to know what their options are as far as what kind of like, what their philosophies are Do they work as a team? Do they not work as a team? Do they take your insurance? Do they do deep flap? Do they do pat flap, do they? You know what I mean? Stack flap. And so because when we're interviewing surgeons, it's really important to know the questions to ask, which is one of the reasons you know, I started a nonprofit and I'm waiting for the status. I'm super excited about that and I'm going and I'm website is being built under test those breastsorg where I'm going to be housing a lot of resources, free resources for breast cancer patients and people who've never been diagnosed, so that they know what questions to ask surgeons, what these terms mean with insurance, if you get denied, how do you appeal, and things like that.
Speaker 1:So that's why I wanted to ask where you went and who your surgeons were, and also I love the fact that they kept you in the hospital for a few nights. Because I don't understand I literally do not understand Well, I do. I think it has everything to do with money how people can do these kinds of surgeries and literally send them home that same day. It's really hard for me to wrap my mind around. When I went to New Orleans. I was in the hospital for three nights, for that first phase and then for phase two. I was in the hospital for one night, but if I needed to stay another night I could do that. So kudos to them for having you in that hospital, because it is a lot. You have drains and they're teaching your caregiver how to drain so that when you go home they know how to do it. So it's a lot.
Speaker 2:I mean that whole the oxygen. And you know they told me they said you are going to take it up front. This is a big surgery. It's complicated. I mean much more complicated than the mastectomy. I mean you're just taking something off, but the upside is that once you heal, it's all you. It's no more swapping out the implants or any sort of issues. And that's what appealed to me. I thought you know what I got through the mastectomy, which, incidentally, it's like a walk in the park compared to the T-flap. I'm not going to lie.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's no joke. Yeah, those surgeries. No matter how you look at it, it's no joke. But I will say that your breasts probably feel nice and natural. I mean, you do lose sensation. There are some people like Dr Crisopolo. He does the sensation sparing and it works differently on all kinds of people. But you do lose some feeling. But they're natural. They're not like hard.
Speaker 2:It's getting warm, like it's warm, it's a warm breath I touch my boob all the time. I know, and you probably flash everyone if they time, yeah me too, I know, and you probably flash everyone if they ask.
Speaker 1:I'll show you. No problem, everyone's seen my breasts. Yeah, you know, when I was younger my friends, I was kind of an edgy gal when I was younger and you know I was kind of a flasher and I look back I'm like what were you thinking?
Speaker 1:But you thinking but you know, it was just who I was and I had little breasts. But now it's kind of funny because people I I'll look at them and say, did you want to? I mean, men I don't do, but did you want to see them? We're like, yeah, I want to see them, like you know educating people to like with the expander.
Speaker 2:When they put the expander in, I could show them like oh, this is where it's sticking out, blah, blah, blah, you can touch it. People are like can I touch it? That's education too. Like showing people like this is what happens. You have to get the cancer out of your body and there's no easy way of doing this. There's no easy way.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that's one of the reasons. I also do not love it when people say, oh, you've got a nice boob job. It's like no, this is not a boob job, this was not. If I could do it all over again, I wouldn't do it. I mean, I wouldn't want to do this. But it's nice to know that there are surgeons out there who are compassionate and they understand that you just went through something crazy traumatic and we need to figure out a way to rebuild and make that person whole again and feel good about themselves.
Speaker 1:And the extra added bonus to it is like for me, with the deep flap they were able to kind of give me a little tummy tuck, and not that I really needed it, I didn't have enough tissue for my surgery. So Dr Cabling actually did have to take a hybrid implant and he had to talk me. He sort of had to talk me through off the ledge on that one because I was like wait a minute, no, and he says hear me out. He says you're not going to need to switch them out like all the time or anything like that, but he says it's going to be so far behind your muscle that you're never even going to know it's there and what it's going to do is it's going to provide that little projection, because otherwise, because I ended up deciding to do both and I only needed to do one, but I ended up doing both he said that will provide that little projection, and he's right.
Speaker 1:I don't even know they're there, I don't feel them, they're all natural. I've got that surgery. They connect all your veins. It's a big surgery, so I feel whole, I feel good, I feel good in my skin and that is what we want for people. We don't talk about this like oh my God, it was so cool, I got breast cancer and then I got to have a boob job and a tummy tuck. That is just so different than if we just made the decision to do that without breast cancer.
Speaker 2:Well, I wouldn't. No, I found I mean I think the downside of breast cancer being so common is that people tend to minimize it, and I think that that was kind of the biggest shock that I lived through, yeah, and just some of the things that people say, and I don't like to dwell on hurt feelings, but I was really like hurt and kind of surprised by certain people. You know like just comments and I think because I was in such a vulnerable spot, it kind of seared into my brain and I do think that unless you're going through something, you don't really understand what the person is going through.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you don't know until you know. Yes, yeah, that's a really interesting thing that you brought up. I've had these conversations with people on this podcast before and I think that for people who are listening to this podcast and maybe people who know you, people who are listening to this podcast and maybe people who know you it's not that we want to make people feel bad, because I know that before I got breast cancer or before my mom died and other friends' moms died, I probably said things that were not real helpful, and mainly because in our society we have all these cliche things to say like oh my God, you're so strong, wow, I could never go through, like I would never be able to do with what you're doing right now, and you kind of think about it's like huh, so if you got breast cancer, you wouldn't be able to do what I'm doing right now. That just sounds so weird, right, because what's the alternative? So we do learn a lot about what we may have said in the past based on what people have said to us.
Speaker 1:And like I had people say things like but Jamie, you were so healthy. Like what happened is like oh my God. I had people say things like but Jamie, you were so healthy, like. What happened is like oh my God, I gave myself breast cancer.
Speaker 1:That really confused me, because I am healthy and apparently healthy people can get breast cancer. Go figure, I think people in general they mean well, I think that they do. In general, they mean well, I think that they do. And I think that's where we find the strength to just understand. We understand what they're saying and we understand that they mean well. We also learn a lot about what we can say to people when they get breast cancer or when their mom dies or their dad dies or whatever.
Speaker 1:And I think people like to talk. I think people get uncomfortable. They don't know really what to talk. I think people get uncomfortable. They don't know really what to say, so they say something that might not be helpful. And I always tell people if you don't know what to say, just be flat out, honest. Jennifer, I am so sorry You're going through this that this totally sucks. I don't even know what to say. I'm just really sorry and I'm thinking about you, and that is not saying anything that's hurtful or anything. You're just thinking about you. I wish I knew what to say.
Speaker 2:Well, I found when I reached out to people, my form of doing research, a lot of it was just calling people that I knew. I called my two cousins. We talked about anyone that I knew that had breast cancer was going through it. Whatever I got in touch with and I thought the first thing that a breast cancer survivor says is I'm so sorry. Says is I'm so sorry you're going through this, and it wasn't like, oh, you're so lucky, it's only stage one, you're a fighter, or it's only breast cancer, like everyone got everyone.
Speaker 1:Oh, you got the good kind of cancer.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's awesome. You think you'll stop drinking wine now, like, um not, you get a boob job, not even a boob job.
Speaker 1:I had three people say oh well, you get to have your 20-year-old boobs again. I'm like I don't want my 20-year-old boobs.
Speaker 2:I don't want a boob job.
Speaker 1:If I wanted a boob job, I would have gotten a boob job Like seriously but I it's pretty interesting and this is why it's important for us to talk about this on this podcast, because people need to know, and it's not, again, not to make people feel bad. It's that this is a learning opportunity for people to understand what kind of things are probably not helpful, and so thank you for sharing that. I think that's you know so common with breast cancer survivors. To talk about that. I want to ask you to putting you back in the spot where you were just diagnosed. What would you tell yourself, your newly diagnosed self, given where you are now today?
Speaker 2:Take your time. I think the feeling that you have to rush and you have to make all these decisions because you do have to make a lot of decisions. No, if I had to go back, I would tell myself your circle of trust, keep it small, take your time and you'll be okay, you'll get through this. But it was shocking and I think it took me a while to get out of that shock and I think it was really easy for myself too to minimize what I was going through, like I'm fine, I'm fine, I wasn't fine, I wasn't fine walking around and like and I think I would tell myself I wouldn't be so hard on myself.
Speaker 2:I think that's you know. I'm grateful. I'm grateful for finding the doctors that I did. I'm grateful for my family. My husband was so supportive he still is. I, you know I was around a lot of support, so my children were wonderful my daughters, my son. But I think you know I was around a lot of support, so my children were wonderful my daughters, my son. But I think you know I would tell myself that what I'm going through is a big deal and it's okay to take your time to make up your mind how you want to deal with this, because only me was going to go through it, right, nobody else. You know I'm the one going in that operating room, no one else is.
Speaker 1:It is a big deal, jennifer. It's a big deal and I think that our audience people who have never had breast cancer I think our audience needs to know that it is a big deal and it is not a good kind of cancer and we lose a lot. I mean, I lost my hair, then came back it was short now but we lose our breasts A lot of us do. You really go through some emotions that we've never felt before and I love your advice to yourself. I was an overshare too and I'm just a very open person in that way.
Speaker 1:I put it out there on Facebook and I remember before I went in to get my port installed, my surgeon had to kind of talk me off the ledge a bit, because the night before is when I had someone reach out to me and tell me oh hey, my sister had a friend of a friend who did this weight loss program. I did optivea and it was really good for me. It worked for me very well and I was very healthy and all that she said, and then she lost a bunch of weight and then she got a really aggressive breast cancer. That stuff has a lot of soy in it. Just wanted to tell you, and this was like at 10, 30 at night, the night before my pet scan and my, my, uh, my port install, and that really threw me over the edge. And then I had someone tell me that, oh god, please don't do chemo, it's going to screw your life up, it's going to screw your body up, please don't do chemo. And so before my surgery the next day, when I got the port, my surgeon had to put it off for about 20 minutes to really talk me up the legend. She said look, she says you know, when we get diagnosed, this is like this, and when you put it out there into the public, you're going to have to filter a lot of things out. Some people just go into monk mode and they just keep it real quiet, but we have to understand that people will say things to you that are not going to feel good and we have to filter those. So that was really helpful to me. I'm grateful that she told me that and I was able to move forward after that. So I think that no matter how we choose to share or not share or whatever, that's our own personal journey, and I think that it's really important to look at what you would tell yourself, as the newly diagnosed, where you are now, because we know we come through this and there's some silver linings. I mean, like, look at this, like we have a new friendship.
Speaker 1:There are friends that I have met from all over the country and outside of our country, who we are friends Like. We connect with each other on the podcast, we text each other, we call each other, we FaceTime. I have two friends, three friends of mine, that I'm in touch with all the time. We're going to San Antonio in May to get our nipple tattoos from Perky and I've never met two of them in person. One I've met at the hospital in December, finally in person. But I've known these girls for over a year, right, right, and so the friendships that come out of it. It's the sisterhood of all sisterhoods, right that it is. So I want to wrap up a little bit here. I just really appreciate your sharing such deep messages with our audience today. I do want to ask you this really important question what kind of big piece of advice would you give to someone who has never been diagnosed?
Speaker 2:I will say someone said this to me and I found it to be. I would say don't ever say this to anyone who's been diagnosed with breast cancer. I had someone say to me every time I get my mammogram back and it comes back clear, I consider myself so blessed. I mean I was like well, am I cursed then Like why would you say that to anybody? So I think I don't want to be like you know you're going to get breast cancer or you know that nagging like one in eight. But I do think that we have to prepare ourselves that if it's not you, it could be your sister, your mother, your daughter, your best friend, your neighbor. It's going to be someone. I mean I just found out last week that another cousin of mine was just diagnosed with breast cancer. We're in that age. I mean I'm 57 years old. This is when it happens.
Speaker 1:So well, and actually I've interviewed quite a few people who had it when they were in their early 30s.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So it's interesting statistics are showing that women are younger and younger now. So when I was in my thirties it wasn't even on my radar, and I want for 20 year olds in their twenties and thirties to have it on their radar With the statistics that we have, we need to have it on their radar and education knowledge is power.
Speaker 2:Yep. One of my doctors said to me your daughters will probably have to start with their baseline at 35. Having more breast cancer in a family, I think, makes you more attuned to what you need to do to keep yourself, just so you know you know that. To keep yourself, just so you can catch it early if it does happen.
Speaker 1:Well, and just being really in tune with their breasts. You know, feeling their breasts.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And looking in the mirror and noticing if anything's different. If they feel something over on the left side, feel yourself over on the right side in the same area to see if there's something there as well, and there's lots of YouTube videos that people can watch.
Speaker 2:You know what I had and I didn't realize this until after I was diagnosed but I had these like little zingers in my breast every night, like I'd be lying down, and it felt like sort of like an electrical current. I was like this is weird. I never put that together because I didn't feel any lumps or anything.
Speaker 1:So that's when I asked you the question before how did that come about? Like, did you feel anything? So for me, I felt a lump, but I had lumpy breasts because they were dense breast tissue and, by the way, the younger you are, they have dense breasts and as we get older, the less dense they get. But I felt a lump and I knew that it felt different, but I sort of ignored it because I was so excited to retire. I was just going about my days just like, ah, so excited. And I'd be like, ah, you know okay, so excited. And I'd be like, ah, you know, okay. And then I did feel those zingers and I'd be like, huh, what's that? If you're feeling those things, don't just ignore those things. Right, don't ignore those things. That's why I'm like what would you tell yourself before you were diagnosed? Don't ignore those things.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Don't ignore the zinger. I didn't know, I didn't know that that was a sign or like I knew. You know, everyone knows lumps, and it wasn't until after that I kind of put it together like oh, nothing, anything in the end.
Speaker 1:This is why we talk about these things on this podcast Test those breasts, test those breasts, test those breasts and talk to people. Talk to people that know you don't need to talk to people that don't know, yep, talk to people that know there's a huge, huge, huge community out there that we can learn from and I'm just glad that test those breasts as part of that community. You're part of that community. I'm just glad that we're there so that we can help educate people. So I just really appreciate so much you're coming on this show and sharing your story and what you went through, how you're feeling about it now.
Speaker 2:You planning or if you're planning to do, going forward to help educate other people, bring awareness. Well, I think so many people know now that I have breast cancer in my everyone that I work with in my world, and I think we just talking about it and taking the mystery out of it. I think that's really where I can see myself. You know, I'm in this local Facebook group. People reach out. I mean I feel like you're right, like we just can talk to each other, give each other advice. What did you do when this happened? You know, yada, yada, yada. I mean I think that that's where I can see myself almost just being a source of information.
Speaker 1:And I love that. And now you're on this podcast, which is going to be out there in the universe and people are going to listen to your story and learn something. I learned something from every guest that I interview and I just find that very healing for me that I interview and I just find that very healing for me. I started this as a healing mechanism because I felt like if I could help even one person, that would be good for my heart. And now it's grown into almost 50 episodes so far and now it's going to be a nonprofit and I'm just going to keep on going forward and I'm just grateful for people like you that are willing to share your story and that have found the podcast to be helpful. You have your email address If anybody wants to reach out, if you want me to put that on the show notes, or, and your Facebook page and your Instagram Yep, yep, okay. Well, I'm going to put that in there, and do you have anything else to say before we wrap up? Well, thank you.
Speaker 2:As I said.
Speaker 1:Oh, you got some, you got some, it's fire.
Speaker 2:Maybe it's a fire, maybe a fire I. Finally, it's a nice day today, so I opened up some of the windows Nice.
Speaker 1:It's a nice day here in Reno as well. Well, I thank you too, and I just am glad that we're breast cancer friends and we would never have met each other had we not had breast cancer. So I consider that to be a major silver lining, and so thank you, jennifer.
Speaker 1:And to my guests. I just appreciate your joining me again and I hope that you can go on and rate this show and whatever platform you're listening on and leave a review, if you can, on the platforms that allow you to do that, and we will see you next time on the next episode of Test those Breasts. Bye for now, friends. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of Test those Breasts. I hope you got some great much needed information that will help you with your journey. As always, I am open to guests to add value to my show, and I'm also open to being a guest on other podcasts where I can add value, so please reach out if you'd like to collaborate. My contact information is in the show notes and, as a reminder, rating, reviewing and sharing this podcast will truly help build a bigger audience all over the world. I thank you for your efforts. I look forward to sharing my next episode of Test those Breasts. Thank you,
