How One Colorado Winery is Navigating Challenges and Crafting Boutique Wines

Ep 37

What’s it like owning a winery in Colorado and growing grapes at 6,000 feet above sea?

For Jayme and Steve it’s been fraught with surprising challenges and extravagant wins!

Today I’m talking with Colorado winemakers and founders of The Storm Cellar, Jayme Henderson and Steve Steese.

The Storm Cellar is a boutique winery, located in Hotchkiss, Colorado, specializing in high-quality, aromatic White and Rosé wines. 

They are a husband-and-wife team with a shared goal of showcasing the attributes of their unique, alpine-desert terroir, bringing the West Elks AVA into the national wine spotlight, and becoming a premier destination for an elevated Colorado wine experience.

But they’ve certainly run into a couple challenges. When Jayme and Steve purchased their winery they had no way of knowing that 4 months later a Phylloxera infestation would have them replanting their vineyard.

Or that two bears would invade their vineyard in 2022 and eat their grapes! But Jayme and Steve managed to turn this into a positive thing because they were able to harvest the remaining grapes early to create a sparkling wine!

And of course, they also have to deal with the unique microclimate of Colorado that involves both desert and below freezing temperatures which present unique challenges all on its own!

Are you ready to dive in and discover the world of winemaking with Jayme and Steve, and explore the unique characteristics of Colorado wines, their passion for blending and their vision for a thriving wine industry?

And if you would like to try the unique wines from The Storm Cellar head to https://stormcellarwine.com and use the discount code STORMLOVE10 for 10% off any three or more bottles!

Episode Highlights:

• Colorado’s unique microclimate and narrow growing window which influences grape varieties
• Challenges faced due to the region’s vulnerability at 6,000 feet above sea level
• How they dealt with Phylloxera 4 months after purchasing the winery
• Why they only produce white and Rosé wines
• The one grape they will never blend
• Challenges of working with high acid content in hybrid grape varieties
• How they blend hybrid wines with other varietals to enhance aromatics and texture

Connect with Jayme and Steve

The Storm Cellar - https://stormcellarwine.com

Instagram - @stormcellarwine

Holly and Flora blog - https://hollyandflora.com/

Transcript

0:00

Hello. It's nice to finally see you even if just virtually after chatting so much. I'm so excited to have you here. It's nice to meet you, Hayley. Thank you. Nice to be here. Yeah. Super excited to have you here. I always like to kinda just start off. I do a little intro for you, but I think you guys say your story the best. If you wanna say a little bit about who you are and what you do. Sure. Yeah. I'm Jamie. This is my husband, Steve Steve's. The 2 of us own and operate a winery out here in Colorado, and we it's called the storm cellar. That's the name of our project. And we both farm Almost. Well, we've managed 23 acres that are fenced in, but we have 8 acres of new of producing vines and 8 acres of riesling here too. So Specialize in white and rose wine making, and that's what we love. I'll let Steve talk too. Yeah. We're we're we're all of it. Whatever the storm seller is, it's the 2 of us. So Yeah. We do farming, winemaking, label designs, social media, tastings, deliveries. It's not necessarily gonna stay like that forever, but it's where we are right now. Where you gotta start. Right? And then this it's you know? Then now that you know how everything works, Right? It's easier to then tell people how to do the how to do the work afterwards. That's a big part. You know? How do you train somebody if you've never done it yourself? Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. And it's so so impressive. So I think it's always fun to find out you know, wine, I feel like always, like, brings people in in unique ways. And so I'd love know for each of you, what sparked your interest in wine? You can go first on that one. You have a Colorful story, I'll I'll admit. Sure. It was Italy for me that really was the first spark for me. I was living in, Fortona, sort of eastern Tuscany area, if you ever saw the movie under the Tuscan sun. Literally filmed while I was living there. Pretty cool. Gives you a perspective. Not fall in love with wine in that moment. And that was the spark, but, I mean, it was it was really restaurant Life and high end restaurants that really fueled long term my love of wine. That's where We really cut our teeth was in restaurants for sure. Yeah. For me, gosh. I I was I worked at a restaurant when I was in college. And the 1st wine that I ever had, like, when I went out to dinner, I remember it was Gaviano Chianti Classico. It was Top level fancy for me, and I I never discount where a person starts, be it with, like, Black Box, Yellowtail. Not that Gabiano was anything like that, but, like, that was what really got me started. And I moved out here to Colorado and Was kind of in between jobs and worked at a restaurant. That's where Steve and I met. And and we that's where we got to know that we could work well together. You know? And a lot of people can't do that. A lot of people say don't work with your partner. It it can work. But, yeah, I just we decided to sign up for in 2009, and both of us went separate directions in the same city in Denver with our Saum certification, eventually writing wine lists And curating beverage lists, and that was that was so much fun. It was definitely it started us on our journey toward what we do now even though it's a complete 180 From what we do now. Yeah. The same industry, different life. Yeah. Yeah. Did you always know you would be in wine? Did you have any career before wine? We did not. I mean, I grew up, like, in a household that did not drink. My dad did and my mom didn't. Neither of us had a taste of alcohol until we were 21. And then we definitely, like, caught up quickly. Yeah. It was honestly, like, I was in the teaching profession, and I was Which I still, you know, utilize those that skill set today, but I was looking toward being a psychologist. I wanted to work with children, And then I bounced around and studied pattern design and then took the LSAT. I was all over the place. Oh my gosh. I decided to work in the restaurant industry to kinda find myself and inadvertently and happily found my my life with wine. Just out of curiosity, I was kinda pursuing Family wanted me to be what I thought I was supposed to be. And, like, I always admire people that just jump in, and they know right away in their early twenties. I did not. But I love the journey that I had. If I didn't have that, maybe I wouldn't be, you know, in the position that I am today or the profession I'm in today. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. I find I mean, I find it's very common. There are very few people I find that, like, you know, go straight from schooling and then into the wine world. Right. It's like it's generally like you were almost, like, just in a waiting zone and wine came to you, and you were like, oh, okay. Yeah. This is cool. Let's let's try this. No. That that's well said. It's it's the waiting room analogy is, like, is perfect. Yeah. Alright. So it sounds like a lot of some restaurant Experience is kinda maybe where the wine started. Can you take us through kind of the story from there to then buying the vineyard and starting the storm cellar? I know I just answered the question, but I I have to say this because, ultimately, it's both of our fault, but it was definitely, like, My fault. Sometimes I really say I regret doing what I did. So back in 2016, when we were still buying wine for the restaurant that we worked at, we went on a wine buying trip to Sonoma. And we were at Peter Michael Winery, and we had worked on some wine dinners with their wines, loved their pinots and chards. And, Actually, sir Peter Michael of Peter Michael Winery asked me at a table in front of a lot of other beverage professionals, like, What's happening in the Colorado wine scene? And embarrassingly, neither of us really knew what was happening. We curated a wine list of over 750 bottles, And the 3 Colorado wines that we had on the list, we didn't even put on the list. So it was our mission to go back and Kind of discover what is in our backyard. And how it started, succinctly, is that I went home while Steve was working one night. We were working at that same restaurant. And I did an Internet search about Colorado wine and then had a hair brained idea to look at Colorado Vineyards for sale And said we should buy this. I sent Steve a link to this Vineyard site that we ended up not buying. Long story short, we Made a trip out here. We booked an Airbnb. 2 weeks later, went to this wine region, the West South Xavier, that we have never never been to before. And It was we can elaborate on that later, but that's how it happened. It started with just, like, we should buy this. We were not financially ready to do it. It was a Crazy idea, but we were ready for a life change. And I think when you're desperate for a life change, you can really make allowances to make it happen, and things will line up. Yeah. It was It was fortuitous timing. It came together so fast. And literally, when we Under a year. We bought the property in March, and the vines were already breaking bud that 1st year. So it was literally, like, rolled right into this. It was a I'm not prepared. Frantic transition for sure. So, yeah, you you transitioned to that. So you bought it. The, you know, the vines are already budding. And so did you do the whole process that 1st year, like, you know, growing the grapes, making the wine, creating the storm cellar, or where did it start? We did a piece of what you just said there. So when we bought this property, it was only a farm. Mhmm. There was only a vineyard. There was 0 winemaking going on here. It was actually owned by another winery in Colorado's other AVA, which is a little over an hour away from here. This was Like an external vineyard of theirs. So they would farm here, tote the grapes back. All the processing was done there. So the 1st year, all we did was farm. It was too fast for us To make the transition into farming and winemaking. It was a big enough transition just to transition into farming. We didn't have any equipment for winemaking. But then the 2nd year Yeah. We were here, that was our 1st vintage of That's even like I think that sounds fast, like, fact that you did hear 2nd. No, Zach. Our our equipment was literally showing up on trucks. Like, it was being pulled off and being put into production, like, Immediately that day. It it was a it was a last minute race to the finish lane. Yep. Oh my gosh. Okay. So, I mean, I have to admit, I've never Fried Colorado wine, and I'm very excited to try yours. It's on its way. I think UPS just told me, like, it's coming tonight. It'll be great. I'll be picking up, but it'll be just in time for us doing the the court crew tasting later this month will be super fun. But I'd love to learn More about this I didn't even realize there were AVAs in Colorado. Like, I kinda just thought it was just, you know, you're making wine. Every state makes wine, right, but not every state has an AVA. And so for those listening, AVA is basically American Viticultural Area. It's essentially like a defined Wine growing region meant to be like the wines from this region have a particular thing about them that is special or this region does something. So Can you talk a little bit more about the West Elks AVA? You know, what it what makes it great for growing wine, and what kind of challenges you face in that area? Yeah. Oh, so we can look across from where we're filming right now. We are at we're in the heart of the West Elk's AVA. Like Steve said a moment ago, 2 AVAs recognized in our state. The larger of the 2 is Grand Valley. So a lot of people know where Grand Junction is. It's on the Western border like you're going to Utah. So if you think about the state of Colorado, you've got the Rocky Mountain, that continental divide, And you've got Denver on the east side, and that's known as the front range. And then you've got the western slope. And the western slope is obviously it's it's less populated, Not very many major cities, Grand Junction being the most major city. And we're about an hour and a half kind of south and east of Grand Junction. We're much smaller AVA. We have 10 active wineries on our wine trail, 2 cideries, And it's a it's an emerging region. We're predominantly driven by summer tourism. So a lot of people come through to go from, like, May through October, And that is the intensity of our season. It's also the growing time of our season. The time where and we're a white and rose winery. It's the time when our wines are very popular because it's a little bit more, You know, it's it's hotter outside. So it's our busy season. This is our slow season, rebuilding, recuperating. But as far as like the and Let Steve kinda weigh in on this too, but we look outside, and we're about 6,000 feet above sea level. So for growing grapes is, like you said, it is rewarding and challenging. The challenge lies with the fact that we're so vulnerable to late spring frosts, Early fall frosts. And I remember reading about zones like that in textbooks or when I was, you know, studying for, you know, any slom certification. You know, it makes sense, but when you're riding the wave of that, it it you can really you can lose your entire vintage, which we we have within the 7 years that we've been out here. The entire AVA lost all of its vines. We had to cut them down to the base and regrow them. So it is a wild ride. I don't wanna offend any other winemaking region, but it is very hard to grow grapes in Colorado. And yeah. Yeah. It's The fringe of where you can pull it off Yep. Really. And our valley, you know, we we reference it for for kind of the wine geeks crowd to Two regions in California. There are, you know, north to south mountain ranges in California that are broken throughout California with East to west valleys. Mhmm. And those are a lot of California's great cool climate, great growing regions because what's happening there is Those valleys are siphoning in cool air from the Pacific Mhmm. To cool off what would normally be hot California. We're we're in an east to west valley, but it is pulling in heat from the desert to the west. So we are warmer than we should be. So it's doing the exact same thing just in a reverse effect as it would in California. Because if we if you look at the, you know, the, Well, the climate map, on any given day around here, our valley is a couple degrees, if not 5 or more degrees warmer than every other place It's around us. It's this cool little microclimate right in this valley here. Oh, that's so cool. The the cool, that word. A lot of people think Colorado. They think Cold. It's a cool climate. We grow pinot noir. We grow chardonnay and riesling. Those are, you know, typically cool climate growing region grapes. And we'll get temperatures in the nineties. We didn't break a 100 this year, but aside from it, it will we're not necessarily a cool climate growing region. It is a packed growing region. So we have this very narrow window to so we're limited by the grape varieties that we can grow because we need to have them Break bud after that frost event, but we need them to start early enough so that they'll ripen in time. Yeah. Absolutely. So it it more has to do with, like so you need grapes that Ripen. Yeah. You only have a a short amount of time to, you know, let the grapes do their thing. And it's so interesting. I because that was my thing. I was like, Colorado. I I think cold. Right? Like Yeah. When you're talking about the vines, I'm curious. So when we when I went out to Walla Walla in here in, Eastern Washington, which is Typically warm, but in the winters can get quite cold. Yes. And it was interesting that I was talking to, one of the winemakers who actually, like, takes care of the vineyard as well, And they've actually come up with a way to save the vines every year because what would happen is they would only bury they bury one Of, like you know, they have the the tea or whatnot for the, vines. Right? And then they take one of those arms and bury it So that in case the rest of the, you know, vine died, they could bring that one up, and then that one would start off They're a new thing. And it's interesting. They actually came up with a new way of doing it because they were sick of always starting with this one arm all the time. They had to do it 3 or 4 times In a span of 10 years. And so they end up coming up with a way of doing the goblets, you know, the tall goblet training, but they brought it down low. So it's low to the ground, these goblets, and then they bury the whole thing over the winter. So I was just curious. Have you guys tried anything with, like, how to, like, help the vine survive over the cold? Yes. It is challenging here. It is. So I'll preface it because we do have so Colorado thought it was absolutely impervious to the destruction Phylloxera. It hadn't visited our states, and, we thought we were scot free because of our soil pH, Because of our cold winters. And that was the downfall to think that anything remains static within the farming aspect. The Loxera was discovered in Colorado in 2016. It was definitely here before then, probably brought in by, like, contaminated nursery plants, you know, during the summer. And we saw the vineyard before we purchased it. We looked at it in 2016. It was thriving. We we saw harvest videos. We saw actual clusters. We watched The entire vineyard. That said, we discovered phylloxera about 4 months after we closed on the property here. And so It does relate to vine protection. We're in the process of completely replanting our vineyard. And so you have 2 options when you have phylloxera in your vineyard. You can plant cold, hearty, French American hybrid grape varieties, which can absolutely withstand temps down to, like, 30 below 0. You can also if you wanna have that vinifera, that, you know, European variety, you have to plan on grafted vines. And so Right right now, half of our vineyard is own rooted, non grafted, completely susceptible to phylloxera. Those are sturdier vines because they don't have a graft line. The graft line is the most, you know, susceptible to cold weather part portion of the plant. So it's like all of those vines that we had, Planted, both the that own rooted and also the grafted in that 2020 frost that put everything down to the ground. The ones that had that deeper root system that weren't grafted, they came up prolifically. So they are a little stronger. As far as protecting them, right now, we have to heal up or cover our graft lines. And so we have about 8,000 that we've Planted by hand, and we don't have a crew out here. It's very multifaceted in Colorado as far as, like, what we have to work with. So we'll cover up By whatever means that we find each year, we're more and more efficient. But you have to cover up that that graph line. But you're right. You could totally lose that Trellising system, that tee, that portion where it has, you know, the trunk and then those cordons. And you would have to cut back to just above that draft line and wait for something to come up. We do save a couple of those long, you know, shoots that are canes in case the plant doesn't make it, And then we have something to work with the next year. So Okay. We're constantly learning. Yeah. Yeah. Questions asked of this. No. I love it. I And just for the the phylloxera, I think, anybody who's listened to me know I talk about phylloxera all the time, you know, because it it's it's so important. And, I mean, it it's had such an impact on but for anybody who hasn't heard, phylloxera is, like, it's this tiny little, like, aphid like insect that basically destroys the grapevines. It it started here in America, and It was brought over to Europe and destroyed their vines, but our American rootstock, which is not what you make most wine out of, Is you know, that's not susceptible to it so that you can protect against. But the problem is that you have American grapes that don't necessarily make Always the best wine, though I'm excited to talk about the hybrids in a little bit here so we can hear more about those. So you can graft a French vine On it and make your tip or any type of vine, I should say, any European vine on it and make a regular European grape, or you can do the hybrid, which we'll talk about in a little bit. But before we get into that, I just had 1 other question kind of with respect to the AVA. Did you ever consider making wine anywhere else other than in the West Elk's AVA. Yeah? Yeah. Was it always was it always Colorado, or was it No. It was It was never Colorado until that question was asked in 2016, and we started taking a deep dive. But Yeah. Jamie had done a bunch of harvest in Willamette, And we had eyes on a a really cool piece of property there that wasn't a vineyard. It was more like a wine shop Kind of thing. We we didn't, honest so Jamie has an online presence where she does a lot of cocktail development. I honestly thought it was gonna be more of like a wine and cocktail Hillbourn in Denver for a long time. I thought that was gonna be, the next thing. I didn't see vineyard owner coming. I didn't. No. We both gardened, and then that's where we're like, okay. We can scale this up. I was like, you have to have some experience. Right? Like, that'd be, like, Terrifying walking into, like, a big earbud. Like, I do not have a green thumb at all. I'd know nothing about Thank you. Experience. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Oh, fun. I love it. No. It is it is always fun where you end up, and you never know. You might end up, you know, doing trying, you know, those other things as well or as you go, and it's always fun. Just the wine is never ending, I think. There's always so many opportunities. That's the exciting part about I am. Fascinated for sure. Yep. Yeah. Okay. So we talked about, your wines. You mentioned earlier that you make white and rose wines. I think you've kind of already talked with us a little bit, but I I just wanted to ask why no red, I guess, or why focus on the white and the rose? Yeah. Couple reasons. We get that question. Yeah. There were there were some funny moments where, you know, we had said something to some guests in a tasting room, and it it came back to us from another winery. Like, we heard you say that that this place wasn't good for making red wines. I'm like, no. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. That's not what we said. That's not what we said. Well, it's funny how things get around. Oh, yes. At the core, I would say, it's because that's what we like to drink More than any other reason. And and the core that this particular vineyard was planted to white varieties. Was also planted to Pinot Gris, a little bit of Pinot Noir. So I have to say that too. It's a combination. Yeah. Yeah. But as far as this this region and what it does, We were talking about it earlier being at basically 6,000 feet compact growing season. Like Jim was saying, it does get plenty hot here during the day. Mhmm. But what is the saving grace is that elevation means it always cools down at night. It's the diurnal shift. The same thing that happens. That's how you preserve finesse and most importantly acidity in the wine. So the wines growing at this kind of elevation will almost always have a pronounced natural acidity. Mhmm. Well, what kind of wines do people tend to, like, pronounce natural acidity in? You know, it's not very often where people say, like, that was a delicious Acidic Cabernet. Like, that phrase doesn't, like, roll off of people's tongues. But, you know, Pinot Noir, of course. You know? If you could get it right, the grape black Nebbiolo. There's a vineyard, a couple anyway, vineyard here that has Nebbiolo planted that will never get ripe. The third season is Too short for Nebbiolo, unfortunately. It wasn't your It's trial and error. It's the wild west. Yeah. But it is being more directed at this point too. So Yeah. So, you know, other things you can harvest to your grapes earlier, for whites and roses, than you could for necessarily getting them, which can save you if Cold temperatures are coming, which is a lot of the reason why we're nudging towards sparkling because sparkling, you've harvest even weeks earlier than you would for A dry a normal dry That was honestly one of my questions. I could I can kinda see, like yeah. Like, as you talk about the AVA and why, like, White and rose just kinda fit that area a little bit better and, like, the red, but then that made me curious. I was like, so is sparkling going to happen? Is that something that is Yeah. Yes. I'm super excited about that. It's, both of us, it's our favorite wine Style. And, even, like, right when we went out here, we're like, we wanna make sparkling wine. Of course, we were saying that without knowing the labor, the cost, the storage, the equipment that You'd need to do, like, a traditional method, and that's the method that we wanted to do. So finally, in 2022, we decided or nature decided For us to make the sparkling wine, we had a a bear in Vadar Vineyard. 2 bears. They were prolific in the valley, And they're the sweetest, like I mean, obviously, they're they can be territorial and rough, but they're just you know, they're part of nature, but they don't really reside in our valley. They're up in the high country. That particular year, their food source was depleted because of a fall frost. So they came down And you kind of think, like, they're never gonna eat these highly acidic riesling grapes. Well, they did. So we looked, and they were decimating the vineyard. And so we sent like, took a Brix measurement, and it was perfectly timed for sparkling wine. So it we brought in the grapes the very next day, And so a bear a bear was the catalyst. So this name is gonna be named the the bear is gonna somehow fit into the name of this wine. Right? We we did think about that. You live in Washington until, like, you know, Kyle MacLachlan, the actor, his project is, like, Pursued by Bear, and I was like, man, he nailed it. But I'm like, it really did happen to us. Zoey, I didn't wanna step on his toes or his bear's toes. No. That's Fair. Well, that is something like when you think of all the things you need to protect your vineyard against, I mean, animals is one of them, but a bear? We did not see that coming. So it definitely, like, whipped us into shape in, and we we, you know, ended up taking the plunge and making it that year. No regrets. My gosh. So cool. Okay. So fun. I'm really excited to see that one when it comes out. Let's dive into talking a little bit about the hybrid grape. So I kinda started to give a little, intro to that. For those that aren't familiar, so most wine, we make out of this, species of grape from Europe, except there are lots of different species of grapes. And then there are some specifically here in America like our that make the concord grape juice. Right? That's our Venus labrusca versus Venus Binafera. And so a hybrid is where it's an offspring of 2 different vines, usually, fetus vinifera and then something else. Here in America, it might be any of the ones that exist here. And so you guys make wine out of both some of the European varietals, but then also the hybrids. So what is your approach to these hybrid grapes? Do you do anything different, like, in the winemaking process versus the European grapes? Yes. And I will say different. They are different to work with. They are. And and honestly, they they do different things to our wine making It's we're we really you know, like so many winemakers, really try to make wines that reflects what's happening in the vintage, what's happening in that particular grape. And I'm Looking across because we have a bottle of it right here. As far as working with hybrid varieties, a lot of times, they cannot have a lot of complexity, city. And that's mainly I don't wanna say mainly. Sometimes it's because maybe that they lack tannic structure, that they're just a little bit more foot forward. They can have Different characteristics. I think you alluded to that a little earlier. That might not be for the traditional palates. Some can flat out be a little weird and funky. I think that we're really embracing as a a winemaking palette or a wine enjoying palette kind of the differences that these grapes can Can yield. However, I don't know. We're not we've tasted a lot of high quality, low quality hybrid wines, seen some great expressions, enough for us to say let's give it a try. We've narrowed it down to where we like working with, Saint Vincent Chamberson. We're working with Atosca. But There are usually a little bit higher not a little a lot higher in acid. And so when you're, like, making the wine, you're waiting for this acid To drop because it's almost too high. It'd be like a tart lemon and it would be an imbalance wine. But at the same time, your sugar levels are getting high. So normally, you have this Balance, like sugar levels are rising, acid levels are falling, and so you get this perfectly timed portion to of time to pick this grape and to make a wine that's balanced. And you really don't get that with hybrids very often. It's it's it's a bumpy ride, and you really are battling those high acid. Yeah. Yeah. Screaming screaming natural acidity. A lot of these grape varieties, they can stand like Jamie was saying temperature is down to 30 below 0. So They're great with their grapes that'll be grown in a place like, you know, Minnesota. Mhmm. And they can stand it there, but they get even less ripe than they do here. So The acid, you know, numbers in those kind of places at harvest is so high that the only way to balance it out is to leave residual sugar. So a lot of people's introductions to hybrid wines are off dry or semi sweet versions of wines because if you've got 15 or 20 grams of TA. Mhmm. You can't drink that in a dry wine. You just can't drink that. Sure. It's interesting. There are different numbers to work with as far as the chemistry, for sure. Very different numbers. Yeah. They get some weird aromas, and you were asking how how do we And they also get some great aromas. So we work with 22 red hybrid Fridays like Jamie said, Saint Vincent and Chambourcin. And extended maceration on either of those 2 wines with the skins can lead to some Kind of funky things. We've tried some kind of funky versions of both those. So we basically hold cluster press, both of those. So we skip skin contact Almost altogether. Maybe it gets an hour. Sometimes we'll do a tiny little bit for complexity, but not enough to really pull that out. So we use them in rose production is what we're using them or, because they have amazing natural color and super intense flavors. Yeah. That color is beautiful. I mean, it's so bright. Yeah. Yeah. So to get that color, like, say with, like, Pinot Noir, really thin skin, but even, like, soar or something like that, you would have to take a a long, you know, time of maceration To get that color, this was direct to press. Like Steve said, we just full cluster pressed it, and the juice that comes out when you press it is just bright magenta. Is the juice inside that color or is that just from that little bit of skin contact? That's a great question. It is the juice inside. So it's I'm sure you've heard the classification of a grape. It's those that particular grape falls in, like, 1% of all red wines or winemaking where the juice is actually Always. It's the exception to that rule when I tell everybody when I'm always like, okay. When you make a red wine and you press the grapes and you get the juice, it looks like a white wine. It doesn't get red until you put the skin in contact with it. But this one, it's like one of those where, like, anything you say in wine, there is always an exception. Oh, yes. This is the exception. Yeah. It's a tiny it's a tiny number though. I mean, like 2 dozen varieties out of what 3 or 4000 red varieties. And a handful of those are The hybrid varieties, Marquette, Chambourcin Mhmm. Saint Vincent's. Yep. Mhmm. Stout. Interesting. Okay. Cool. I always love it. And I think, like, In my mind, I feel like the best hybrid wines are those that are treated differently. Like, you really just have to, like, accept That, like, this is not the same thing. We're not gonna make it exactly the same way that we would a European variety. You have to kind of learn what it Wants to do. There's a great, I I'm from Wisconsin originally, and just literally the town over. It wasn't there when I was growing up, but when I went back home to visit family, There is a winery that was started by this woman that grew up in Wisconsin as well that does all hybrid grapes. And those are definitely some of the best that I've tried as well because she Focuses in on and hones in on the hybrid and learns what to do with it. So it's really fun hearing you guys talk and say, like, how different it ends up being Working with a hybrid versus, you know, the European style. Definitely. Yeah. We're we're also unabashed blenders too. Yeah. I was just gonna go there. We have never released, I mean, of all the hybrid variety wines, the it's never been a 100% of that. We're open with that. And and, of course, we varietally label. It says Rose of Saint Vincent, But we we do disclose, like, some years, maybe the aromatics in that particular wine from that vintage, which it's been different every single year. Very many reasons. But we'll add a little say Gewurztraminer to add a floral left or if it's lacking texture, if we have a great Viognier to give it just a little roundness on the palate. Not to take away its varietal characteristics, but to enhance it. I always like to liking it as building a cocktail or, you know, getting that perfect dish where you need that Squeeze of lemon, that pinch of salt, that savory note, that touch of, like, hot honey or whatever it is when you're trying to bring balance. You think about why making that way where you're you're working with the grape, but you're also working with a palette of balance. Yeah. It's an ongoing experiment year after year. And it's a great way to to adjust for those sorts of, if you wanna I call them issues with the grape. You know, you take a wine that's super acidic and blend in whatever 8 or 10% gewurztraminer that's not very acidic at all, and you've brought the acidity of the wine back down to a place that's more palatable, and we tend to blend out our Concerns. But we also have the complexity too. Yeah. A lot of Rather than adding anything artificial or anything like that. We work with white grape like, Roussanne, like Viognier, Pinot Gris. A lot of those grapes, once they get the phenolic ripeness that you want have lost a lot of their natural acidity, then can fall totally flat on the end. Just give him a little bit of dry Riesling, and then it sings. Yeah. You'll wrap it thing. Yeah. Oh my gosh. It's so cool. I think, like yeah. I feel like blending got a bad I don't know when blending got a bad rep, but it feels like it's just, like because wine making is So many different things. Right? It is very much farming. You need to farm well. You need to have good grapes, but you can have like you said, you can farm the grapes perfectly, And it's still just like there's something that's a little missing, and that's where, like, you bring in, like, almost like like, the way that you talk about it, Jamie. Like, it's like the art Of blending. Right? You're kinda, like, thinking about all these things and, like, what is supposed to shine in this and what is supposed to, you know, be saying here. And I think that's fine. I think, You know, there is a little bit of a push for, like, oh, let's only let the let the grapes do the talking. It's like, you're still doing that. You're just helping you know, Adding a few extra things, you know, I say extra things, extra grapes. They're always, you know, these different grapes in to kind of just, like you said, Add complexity or kinda work with the grapes. So it's an enjoyable experience, and that's your role as the winemaker. Yes. There are places in France like Burgundy and Alsace that are just based around single varietals, but then there's the Rhone Valley and there's Bordeaux, and it's based around blends. I mean, it's not like you don't like Bordeaux. Nobody doesn't say, I don't want that I'm sorry. Thirteen varieties is too much in my Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I I only barely drink single varietal around here. Okay. Well, we're talking about a lot of the wines. I'm gonna it's probably the hardest question that I have, but if people want to try your wines, I always like to kinda give them idea. Like, which 3 would you recommend? You can each do a different 3 if you'd like as well, but which 3. If they're looking on your website and they're choosing between and this is their 1st time, you know, coming into Colorado wine, what should they try? Well, we honestly agreed on the same 3 wines. That happens a lot. We I I could leave for a month, And Steve would make the same wine that I would make. So we we chose the same 3 wines, and it's the same 3 that we will be tasting with your club members. So that said, We wanted to talk about blending. We wanted to talk about the volatility of Colorado's climate, but how it can yield something beautiful and also where winemaking comes into play where you're not, you know, adding any false additives, but you're really working with the the grapes that you have at hand With respect to the season at hand. And so one that we love is all the flowers. It's, you know, it's a it's a Proprietary name, it's a blend that shifts from year to year. We've made all the flowers. This will be our 3rd vintage making it. It is absolutely named because it consists, between 4 5 very aromatic varieties. So you really get to taste What a winemaker can do with different grapes and a different season. And this particular one that we'll be tasting and that's live on our website right now is Gewurztraminer based, And, you know, it has, white muscat, orange muscat, and sauvignon blanc. But this year that we're making in tank is Viognier based, And then it's accentuated by those other varieties as well. So that's 1. I love a wine that changes in when you just get to do those blends because then it's just like an adventure every time. You keep trying it every year and be like, what does it bring this year? What what did they do this time? I'm glad that you have that philosophy and imbue that with people because people that live that wanna A recipe that tastes the same year after year. I mean, not only is it it's just unattainable in so many places. Like, There's no way that we could replicate. It's certainly sustainable here. Yeah. Joking aside, looks a perfect lead into this. Well, I was gonna talk about the 202020 Estate dry riesling. Mhmm. 100% riesling harvested from our vineyard just a few weeks before that crushing frost that basically destroyed Colorado's vinifera For the 2021 vintage. Mhmm. So Riesling is always kind of the core of what we're working on up here. We've worked with Our vineyard, we manage, or sort of manage half manage a vineyard about an hour away from here, an old vine riesling vineyard. We've worked with other vineyards all over the state of Colorado riesling. Yeah. We can just go on forever about riesling. I'm curious. So you said, you said old vine riesling. How old are the vines that are there? The vines in this bottle are 20 years old. 20 years old? Yeah. And it'll and this one's great because it's It's already been in bottle for for 3 years. And so almost 3 years. And so it's it's starting to show a little more complexity in it. And the other unique thing that I'll add is that the this particular wine we farmed personally. So we've done all of the pruning, all of the harvesting, all of the, vineyard maintenance. So it's Super special. That's that's our that's my favorite out of the 3, I'd say today. Yeah. And then we were talking just about this a moment ago, blending versus not Blending. We we've never blended a riesling ever. It hasn't needed this. It's the one grape that it feels like it's Sort of like the holy grail almost. It's sort of untouchable in our mind. I think We've done all sorts of iterations. Like Jamie said, our sparkling wine that we're gonna release this spring is estate riesling. We we've done medium sweet, full sweet, But dry riesling's is definitely our focus here. And it's it's an interesting category, dry riesling, because it's It's not what people think. It's it's very rarely totally dry, Riesling. Yes. I learned that when, there was an Oregon wine maker that I absolutely love. He's not making wine anymore. I think it's, what was it? Something like Patras, but that's my Mother my mother in law's made a name, so it's not that, but it's something like that. But he, yeah, he had a super dry riesling, and I taste it. And and I was glad I got to do the tasting with him because he said, This has, like, 10 grams of residual sugar, and I was like, no. It doesn't. This has no sugar. I can't taste any sugar. Have no. It's like people are shocked when they See what's allowed in a Brut champagne at the same time. There's just so much acid you have to balance. It's just like we were talking about with the hybrid wines. We We ran this fermentation in this wine totally dry just because you wanna know, but it's too dry. It feels like it's tearing the enamel off your teeth. It's super aggressive. But we had an off dry riesling and tank at the same time, which then people ask often say, how do you get sweetness in a wine? Well, Blending for us is usually the way we're gonna that gives us, like, precise control about exactly how sweet we want the wine to be. We didn't have we in in Hank, right now, we only have 1 riesling. So for the very 1st year, we had to stop the fermentation at the exact Perfect moment. It was And it was like testing it a couple times a day trying to and, then we've we've we've stopped it, and we caught it just right, which is great. Which is about the exact same as we have here, which is about 3 grams of, residual sugar, about 7 and a half grams of acidity, which is Right about where we like to hit for a dryer. Sweet spot. I always can't say sweet spot because it's the dry spot. But, otherwise, I'll kinda hit on this succinctly since we talked about, you know, hybrid, but the rose of Saint Vincent is the only wine that we do differently on our label. Our our labels are very identical across the board. We did that because this was the 1st hybrid variety we worked with. We wanted the label to stand out. We also wanted to not hide behind Any perceived stigma of hybrid wine, we wanted to variety label it. And so we the 1st time we worked with this grape was twenty Team, I think this is a wonderful wine to, to learn about. Its parents are thought to be Pinot Noir and Chambourcin. And so it it has Immense complexity. The the acid is just bright. The the fruit profile, you're just getting, like, that tart pomegranates, you know, a little bit of cherry plum, And this beautiful herbaceous note. And it's just it's delicious on its own, but because of that acid profile, it's it's wonderful with food pairing options. Cool. They sound sound wonderful. So for anybody that wants to try them, you sell them online on your website. That's storm cellarwine.com. Correct? Perfect. K. Wanna make sure I had that. And then you do have a discount going on, so you can use the code storm love 10. So the number 10 at the end. It is 10% off Any 3 or more bottles and a $20 flat rate shipping, which is very nice. Shipping wine is so expensive, so it's good to just have the the flat rate to know right off the bat. So, yeah, people can head to storm cellarwine.com and use that code storm love 10 to get 10% off and $20 flat rate shipping to try the wines. I'm very excited. I'm like, they're they're on their way, and I'll be adding the UPS sometime today so I can pick those up. And then I also really quick just wanted you to to give you a chance to talk about you have a Great wine club and then a new wine cocktail club. So you just wanna talk just a little bit about that? Yes. We're both super passionate about winemaking, Obviously, and cocktails, and in in a past life, and in a in a side hustle life right now, I curate the blog Holly and Flora, and it's named after the cross streets that we lived in Denver. And wine cocktails. I a lot of wineries, you know, if we could have a whole bar here and do a creative bar program, that'd be great. Current liquor laws do not allow us to do that. And so finding a way to make cocktails I know. I well, we roll our eyes too. It's, a lot of laws need to be revisited. Yes. They do. Yes. The thing about wine cocktails, a lot of times people think it's like gilding the lily. Like, why would you want to make a cocktail out of this beautiful all rebalanced wine? Well, you do that with beautifully balanced bourbons, whiskeys, even scotches. Call it sacrilege, we fully embrace it. So back to that wine cocktail club, it is, our 1st subscription model. So it'll be released so you can have 4 shipments a year. And we're still in the developmental stages of that, but it'll include 2 bottles of the same wine. It'll have 1 bottle so that you can enjoy A recipe that you can say, like, use 2 ounces of it or, you know, if you have a friend over, you can you're just using 4 ounces of that bottle. You have the ingredients to make that cocktail, and we're working with some local farms and friends to provide, like, say, you know, Organic apple cider to do with, like, a a a Chardonnay cocktail, or we're working with a lavender farmer to do, like, a lavender honey simple syrup and honey from our Ali, so not only is it a way to explore wine mixology to learn more about the wine, it'd be a high educational, component, but really approachable. You're also able to taste our valley, and you're able to taste what's in season and really take away a skill set on how to how to make something creative and gives Give wine, like, another life, another iteration. It's a lot of it's fun in play, but it's also serious deliciousness. That's so fun. It it reminds me too of I I recently interviewed, sommelier and wine author and now importer. But when she was sommelier, she, Actually did. So, like, she did it more so because she couldn't find the exact wine that she wanted. She'd have, like, a wine in mind, but she's like, I need it to be, like the only one She could find I think she was in Nashville, I think, at the time, so not as big of a, you know, list of options. And so she'd you know, she still worked with good wine to but it wasn't exactly what she wanted, and then she changed it slightly by, like, adding in something or, like, she'd rim the glass with something or you know, and started doing these things that, like I think, like you said, like, a lot of the wine will be like, oh my god. That's terrible. What you're ruining the wine, but, like, you're right. When you think about, like, the best cocktails, You don't use, like, the cheap vodka or the cheap you know, you go for the best quality liquor, so why can't you do the same thing with wine? Yeah. I agree. I'm surprised they are a change in Yeah. That's another thing we are at our winery. We love doing wine cocktails and nonalcoholic cocktails. So it's Just, like, let our creativity, you know, appeal to whoever comes your way. It's exciting. Oh, so fun. I'm so excited for that. Okay. So now let's talk a little bit like, looking down the road, I always like to see, like, you know, what do you see for the future of the storm cellar for winemaking in Colorado, you know, going, like, 10, 20, even 30 plus years down the road. I think there's gonna be a lot of attention Focused here over that span of time. And it doesn't matter who you talk to. You talk to winegrowers and climate change is real. It it is. You talk to grape growers, and it's it's undeniable. But the whatever's happening, it's shifting. Things are changing. And There are, just like we're saying, only certain ways to preserve natural acidity in grapes. And people are talking, you know, that Napa Valley will be, You know, Sangiovese or Tempranillo country come 2050, and so you've either gotta go up in latitude or up in elevation. Those are It's really. So a lot of people think that the Rocky Mountains are poised and Mhmm. Water, of course, is always an issue in the in the Desert. That will always be a concern. But just like Eastern Washington, the desert is an amazing place to farm If you can get water to it because your biological threats, your pets are so far reduced. We haven't sprayed for powdery mildew in 2 years here. It's Crazy. And there are vineyards in Napa Valley spraying, like, every week, every other week. And Yeah. So people are gonna try and make it work here because there are wins that can happen. Mhmm. Yeah. As far as as far as our personal project, you know, Steve Steve speaking to that broader wine growing community. I think a lot of hybrids will arise, a lot of experimental styles. I I love the fact that it truly is the wild west wine making out here. It's kinda like that in our own wine making facility too. We're really working with some interesting fruit like Atasca this year. It's very new hybrid to the market And more being hybridized every year and really analyzed for quality wine. So for us, You know, we we work our right behind our house is our is our tasting room. It's all outdoor, tasting room, and we're called the storm seller for a reason. We have a lot of storms that kind of come through, a lot of I wins. There's never a dull moment. In our perfect world, we are ready for a roof and 4 walls. So a tasting room is on the horizon within the next 2 years. It's been on our horizon for a while, but, you know, 2020, 2021 with COVID, it really put a damper on our goals. So we're shifting. We've done some beautification outside, but we really want to have an option to be able to showcase food and wine in this valley. It's through organic Farming capital of the state. And to we work routinely with chefs. We'd love to have, you know, permanent chefs and residents at our tasting room to really Do that food and wine pairing. And we want to we've already expanded our fence line to include a wedding and events venue. And also do, like, 2 or 3, like, casita style places for people to stay. I was just wondering. I'm like, this sounds perfect for, like, a little getaway. Like, People can stay on the property and be right there and have, you know, all of that. Oh, it sounds lovely. I think so too. It really does Tell that whole story of agritourism. You really if you stay at a place, you really get to see how things are interconnected, and it's not just a show. It's not just something that you portray. It's something that you live. And so we're really excited for that. I'm thrilled. Yeah. That's that's a big part of what drew us to this valley. It is it is like untouched farm country. There's there's not a stoplight or a fast food restaurant for 30 minutes From here, literally, barely a 1000 people in the town we live in, and people want just like we want. They want, like, The real They want an experience. Be out in farm country. And when you can get that farm country experience and a world class wine experience at the same time, that's, Then it lifts the whole valley. It grows everything. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, that sounds so fun. Let me know when those because he does are up. I'm definitely gonna gonna make a visit. That'll be Perfect. That's okay. Fun. I always like to end every interview. I call this the speed round mostly because I I ask you not to think too hard. Otherwise, you'll be thinking on these questions. So it's meant to be just top of mind, whatever whatever comes to to mind. So the first one is what is your favorite wine at the moment. This can be a specific bottle or just a style of wine that you're reaching for a lot lately. I get asked that question a lot, and People say, what what's your favorite wine? And I have a hard time choosing a favorite, but the wine I find myself reaching for out of our portfolio the most frequently lately is the Rose of Pinot Noir that we made last year. Yep. It's a super cool wine. 100% Palomar clone from, 7,000 feet elevation vineyard down in Southwest It's Colorado, and I'm fascinated with that wine right now. Mhmm. Since Steve said something about our wine, I could definitely say one too, but I'll I'll keep it separate. There is a winery out of California, and the winery is called Am Viv. And it's a couple, you know, both farm and make the wine. They make beautifully balanced but bright, high acid, elegant, lighter style reds. They make whites too and sparkling, but I love Amviebe's Gamay, and it's the only wine club that we're a member of aside from, like, basically being members of our own club. Right. And yeah. So I'm Where in where in California is it? What region? Oh, goodness. I should know that. Los Olivos. Oh, in Santa Barbara. Central. Yeah. See, it's Santa Barbara broadly, but specific, that's their label. I'll have to try I I I am such a sucker for Santa Barbara wines. That area just makes such beautiful wines. They're they're like that perfect balance. Right? And I'm definitely who likes a little more acidity in my wine, so that that's where I go too. Yep. Okay. So, I mean, speaking about region, this goes into well to our next one. What is the favorite wine region you've ever visited? Are you men Mendoza? Maybe. Oh, Mendoza. Okay. I mean, I the coup de grace. I went to Burgundy. Okay. But, Honestly, I will just blast that out of the park with, the Minuverde region of Portugal. Oh, I've heard really great things about Portugal. Yes. I told Steve. I was like, if we get to retire, this is where we're going, and you have no say in this. I I can't imagine you complain too much, Steve. I mean, gosh. Don't you think we have to go to Portugal? Right. It's yeah. Portugal for sure. Yeah. Okay. Alright. And then on the flip side, what is a wine region that you'd like to visit? I wanna go to I wanna go to South Africa. Like, Stellenbosch. And I I'd also want to go, to Argentina since Steve has been, and it's very similar for high elevation wine. Yeah. Slovenia. I know. I answered 3, so I'm gonna That's okay. Like I said, these these are hard questions. New Zealand. New Zealand. Yeah. Yeah. We're really fascinated with what's going on down in, like, the kind of Baja area of Mexico too. We've had such such crazy things. And we've We've had so many wine geek friends come back there and say, like, you've got to get down there. Yes. Yeah. Okay. That's a that's a new one. I've had I've had 1 or 2 wines From Boba. Yeah. Haven't heard as much about it. South Africa comes up a lot, either it's someone's favorite region or a region they wanna go to. And same with New Zealand. That is a a top one. My friends just went there on a on a honeymoon and brought back a bottle of wine and shared it with us, and, oh my gosh. Like, They are holding out on us. They have such incredible wines that, like, don't make it out of the country. Yes. Yeah. That's that's the complaint. Mhmm. Alright. Last 2 questions. What is your favorite wine and food pairing? And, again, it can kinda be of the moment too. You don't have to go back through all your history. Okay. I appreciate and love off dry riesling. So just that little hint of sweetness balanced with that acid. Maybe I won't have, like, a full bottle or a couple glasses. But If I have a spicy, like, Thai dish or, like, some noodle bowl that's, like, fiery and hot, that quench That I mean, it just brings out the the fruit and the wine. That acid just works so beautiful. That's that's my favorite, I'd say. Nice. Trying to think of most memorable pairing moments of the year. That's a hard question. We had a dinner that some happened here, a big Asado dinner where one of the courses was a Creamed or a cheese filled agnolone and a butter sauce that we serve with our chardonnay that Might have been my most memorable pairing. I'll second that. It was delicious. Just that texture pairing. I I zoned out for a couple moments while I just Kind of got excited. Kind of got excited. Yeah. It was a special moment. Yeah. Those are the best. Okay. And then last Question is kinda just for those I know some people are are working on a budget, right, to to drink wine, but and, like, some wines are better at a lower price with others or, like, where you Trust them. So what do you think is the best bottle of wine under $15? And, again, it doesn't actually have to be, like, a bottle. It can Like, a style. But if you got around $15 to spend, what should you spend it on? Where would I go? I would go All sauce, whites from all sauce. Mhmm. So I think you can get some really killer wines for under $15 still. Please find Willem and, I feel like Hugel isn't Hugel does they they have pretty good wines and usually pretty affordable. Pretty affordable. Mhmm. Yeah. You can get Gruner Feldsliner from Austria. You can get that at a good price point sometimes and really get a good expression. I mean, so many times, like, we we look at top 10 list, top 15, top Twenty lists of wines under a specific price point because contrary to popular belief, we might make a luxury product, but we do not have a luxury pocketbook to And so we're constantly looking for those too. In our area, our small 1,000 town person town area, we don't have a lot of options at that price point. Things are a little more expensive. So we go to the city or buy online, try to support the local economy, but at the same time, it's a balance. That's it. We tend to shop more regionally and, I mean, I'll say it. A lot of times to get that whatever that $15 price point in our area, Our bang for the buck is not really for the wine crowd. It's like, okay. Well, what is the difference? Why why are we now purchasing this bottle of, like, $40 gin? But if you're drinking, you know, for quality, not that Jen isn't quality, but if you're really drinking for quality and you're really taking your time, I would say to go to your local bottle shop and ask that buyer or say, well, I mean, there's no shame in saying I wanna spend $15 or lower. And then a lot of times those bottle shops will offer a 10% case discount. And then you can also do something really fun and ask that buyer. You know, you can't do this in big box shops. Can't do this at Costco or, you know, Total, and you're supporting someone local, but they'll be able to, like, assemble a case for you, And you don't even know what's in it. That's one thing that we love to do. And then it sharpens your palate, and you can do blind tastings by yourself. So yeah. That's a fun idea. I've never done that before, and there's some great small wine shops around here. Pick pick it for you, and it's like a it's just like Presents. Christmas. Birthday. You know? We've been astounded with what we found on, like, clearance shelves on in wine stores too. Like, A white wine that might be 3 years old that's drinking beautifully right now that they've For some it's not so popular that just some person, put it on a discount rack because it did wasn't moving because no one knew about it. We found some gems like that out here in our rural town. And we're like, that is a Steel. We're taking it. We'll we'll also go for pretty much anything sparkling at that price point. You know? Yes. From Cromant to anywhere. Yes. Basically. Yes. Come on just anywhere. Yeah. Or, like, Groet Winery out of New Mexico. You know, they they have some high tier Sparkling wines, but their Saint Vincent label, not to be confused with the grape. Their Saint Vincent sparkling many times can be right around that. Sometimes you've seen it down to 12, $15, and it's traditional method and it's exceptional for that price point. And, obviously, like, Proseccos and stuff, but Saint Vincent. Yeah. Okay. Great answer. And I love that too. I love, like, the idea of just going to wine shop. I even say that for, like, when people are looking for affordable wine. I'm like, they don't only have expensive wine. Like, the almost every wine shop I've been in Has a section that is literally, like, here is your$10 and under or $15 and under, and those are ones you can trust that are also good And, you know, and just, like yeah. It's always a it's a great way to go. Alright. Well, I I know almost don't want this podcast in, but we get to talk later in the court crew, so Chat more there, but it was so great chatting with you guys and learning all about Colorado wine. And, yeah, can't wait to chat more. Yes. Thank you for your time. Cheers. Cheers. Thanks.