Epsiode 034: Mentoring Novice Teachers in the Craft of Simplicity with Nicole Dissinger

Ever wondered how a seasoned mentor guides fresh educators through the labyrinth of their first year? Join us as Nicole Dissinger, a beacon of wisdom in the teaching community, returns to our show to illuminate the path for new teachers navigating the crucial first steps of their career journey. With Nicole's expertise, we delve into the art of building relationships and setting clear objectives, steering clear of the allure of complex activities that can often sidetrack well-meaning educators.

The conversation takes a deeper turn when we explore the delicate dance of confidence and self-representation, especially when teachers engage with school administration. New educators face a mountain of tasks, from curriculum mastery to classroom management, and we're here to dissect the strategies and support systems that can make or break their professional longevity. Nicole shares her experiences and insights into mentoring's vital role, laying out the welcome mat for teachers to step into a profession that not only challenges but also rewards in equal measure.

Finally, we wrap this episode with a rally call for all educators to embrace a minimalist mindset. Shift away from the shackles of rigid lesson plans and embrace the freedom to tailor education to the heartbeat of each unique classroom. We, Tammy and Christine, are advocates for a teaching philosophy that champions autonomy, creativity, and impactful learning experiences. Share your minimalism-in-education stories with us on social media and join the movement towards a teaching practice that is as enriching as it is efficient.

This episode is sponsored by Plan Z Professional Learning Services. 

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:19

Welcome to the Minimalist Educator Podcast, a podcast about paring down to refocus on the purpose and priorities in our roles with co-hosts and co-authors of the Minimalist Teacher Book, Tammy Musiowsky-Borniman and Christine Arnold.

Speaker 2: 0:36

In today's episode we welcome back to the podcast Nicole Dysinger. Our conversation today is around brand new teachers. Nicole Dysinger is a mental teacher, professional learning facilitator and curriculum developer. She has experienced teaching and learning globally for 15 years. Nicole holds a Bachelor of Science in Elementary Education with an emphasis in psychology and a Master's Degree in Early Childhood Education with an endorsement in bilingual, multicultural education. She has experienced with a range of curriculums from multi-age state standards and the International Baccalaureate Primary Years Program.

Speaker 3: 1:18

Hello everyone and welcome to this week's episode of the Minimalist Educator Podcast. We are excited to have a returning guest with us, Nicole Dysinger. Thank you again for being with us. Again, Nicole, Thanks for having me. How are you today?

Speaker 2: 1:35

Christine, I am doing well. I'm slightly jealous of Nicole with a cup of tea, then it looks quite warm and comforting. How are you guys going Good?

Speaker 4: 1:47

Going good. It's the season for tea, so yeah, embrace it.

Speaker 2: 1:53

Warm drinks and lots of darkness, for sure. So we're going to have a chat today, Nicole, about working with new teachers and build on some of your experience in that area.

Speaker 4: 2:07

Yeah, so I've recently started mentoring some first-year teachers for an organization here in Arizona and they're a range from special ed to middle school elementary. They're a range of, you know, first career versus second or third career teachers. It's quite a big range of where they're coming from and what their story is and how they got there.

Speaker 2: 2:37

Yeah, very interesting stuff. I was very briefly working with the university and went to visit a lot of education students while they were out at schools doing their practical units and I have to say, sometimes I would get a little bit scared about you know, they'd be teaching one lesson a day or two lessons a day, but the amount of time that they were putting into one or two lessons a day, I was like, well, this is not going to be sustainable for you, you know. So do you come across that sort of thing with first-year teachers as well?

Speaker 4: 3:11

Yeah, I think it's more, maybe less, of like the amount of time spent on one lesson, but more just the like well, I have this really great activity, but it doesn't actually address the objective that they're trying to meet in that moment.

Speaker 4: 3:29

So there still is a lot of focus on like making a really great activity or lesson, which you know is important to a certain extent, but I think it's more of the does the activity unless it actually addressed the objective that they're supposed to be meeting at that point.

Speaker 4: 3:50

And there's still a little bit of a disconnect there with a lot of new teachers, which I also can understand, because you know you're thinking about how do you design a lesson? How is it going to be engaging? What's going to be exciting about it? Are the kids going to respond, especially if you're teaching a whole group? Right? And then on top of that, like, is it going to be fun for me as the teacher? Rather than you know, as you become more experienced you realize, oh, I can just do this really short, quick thing that addresses the objective, and then they can go on and practice by themselves or in a small group or however else you decide to do it. But there's a lot less of all that fluff and pinterest-y stuff. You know, as you learn how to teach and what's actually important and how to address those objectives that you're required to teach.

Speaker 3: 4:44

You've had some interesting conversations with your teachers and so how do you with because they're coming from different classrooms and different schools and different experiences, so how do you do they come to you with, like this is what I really need help in, or do you like what's your process to help them kind of focus their energy on, like what they really need to focus on?

Speaker 4: 5:08

Good question. It kind of depends. Each one's a little bit different At the beginning. The nice thing about this organization that I'm working with my role as a mentor is purely a support role, so I don't have to do any sort of evaluating, there's no pressure for me to make sure they do any particular thing, which is really nice, because then I can just be there as a support for them. I found it. They trusted me very quickly, which was really nice, and I was actually quite surprised by, but very appreciative that they received me well in that regard.

Speaker 4: 5:56

But the very beginning, my job, my role, my purpose was just to get to know them and just build that relationship Same thing that we do with our students in the classroom. Right, like there really was no focus on changing things, there's no focus on, you know, goals, nothing like that. It was really just relationship building, which was really nice. But, as you know, I've gotten to know them. I've got to know their personalities a little bit better, their different teaching styles, their comfort level in terms of trying new things, how they are in terms of receiving feedback or, you know, critical feedback, things like that. And so for each one, I just tried to make sure that, like I check in with them how are you doing, how are things going, you know what's going well.

Speaker 4: 6:52

Like, let's focus on some things that you feel are going really well, and then maybe, what are some things that you think are maybe not going as well? And then, within that, I try to, you know, use my professional judgment to decide are one of those things something that we should be steering towards in terms of a goal, or is it kind of just them venting and, you know, processing all of the trials and tribulations of being a teacher on top of being a first year teacher? And so within that, we kind of, you know, figure out, sometimes it's a goal that comes from them, sometimes it's something I try to guide them to but never really push them. If it's something that they're not really receiving or it feels like maybe that's not the right you know goal at the time for them, or direction, then I, you know, steer a different direction. But I also come back to teaching and what are the main things you need?

Speaker 4: 7:55

And that's routines and procedures. So do they have them? Are they efficient? Are they effective? If not, okay, let's address those, which one is probably the highest priority at the time. And then also, from there, what's your classroom management like? How consistent are you? You know, whatever system you want to develop is totally fine. I will support them in that. But are they following through? Is there consistency? Are they sticking to one thing or is they changing every week or two weeks, you know? Because if that's the case, then we need to find something, even if it doesn't work forever. Let's pick one thing and just try it for a little while, and then now we're getting into more planning and designing learning engagements that are not only effective but also students want to do and be part of.

Speaker 4: 8:57

And it's not more work for the teacher, it's teaching them those ways to make it actually less work for them and more work for the students, which is hard to understand. So that's kind of I kind of fall back on those main principles, right, Because you have to have those things in order to have a successful classroom, no matter what grade you're teaching or subject or what your environment looks like, things like that.

Speaker 2: 9:25

It sounds very much like a coaching sort of role. Do you feel like you use a lot of elements of instructional coaching in your work?

Speaker 4: 9:33

Yeah, I think it's similar to that. So we've done quote unquote coaching cycles, I guess, but maybe not in like a formalized fashion, in a sense right where it's just more organic or natural in terms of how it happens. So you know, I'm keeping tabs, I'm keeping track, but they might not necessarily be aware of like where we're at in the cycle. You know I get to work with them next semester as well, so it's the whole first school year they have, which is really nice. So I think next semester I'll be more explicit with them about things in terms of like why we're analyzing this evidence, you know, based on a lesson that you taught, or what part of this you know goal are we now in and how do we move on to the next stage, that type of thing.

Speaker 4: 10:27

But I think, just for getting them started, they don't really need any other information in their brain because they already have, like learning their new school, learning their team, learning their grade, learning all the new programs they have to teach. Plus, you know we have all these new requirements of science, of readings. So if that's on your you know to-do list, that's also something as well. So there's just lots of things. Plus they're just trying to, you know, manage and maintain their immune system, which we know.

Speaker 3: 10:59

The first few years it takes a toll and Chodas are you finding that these new teachers have ways to, or strategies, I guess tools whatever to help them focus their attention, like coming from a program then coming into teaching? Like, do you feel like they have some kind they're somewhat equipped with, like a way to navigate all the stuff? Or and I guess that could be individual, but is there like even somebody that stands out like, yes, this person definitely has these skills already and this one you can, you know? Yeah, I think.

Speaker 4: 11:47

One teacher that I'm mentoring. She definitely is able to navigate her classroom environment quite well in terms of like I think she feels fairly confident in herself and how she's going about. Does that mean she's doing everything to the best that it could be? Probably not. But who is in the first year teaching right, so many things we've learned, that I look back and I'm like, what was I doing? Why did I do that? But that's also, I think, just part of it, like it's just part of this like process and journey of being a teacher and you know you find whatever ideas you can and you think that makes sense to you and you try them and you give them a go and then, as you develop your skills and yourself as a you know person, then you learn what works for you and what doesn't and yeah, but I feel like she she's able to, yeah, like navigate her classroom environment quite confidently. She's also able to navigate the professional setting quite confidently and really very adult, like very perfectly, which is quite impressive to me.

Speaker 4: 13:08

You know she has to deal with paraprofessionals on a regular basis and she has to deal with admin on a regular basis and she has to.

Speaker 4: 13:18

You know she has lots of other people who come in and out of her classroom and she's able to manage all of these relationships. She's able to advocate for herself, she's advocating for her students, she advocates for her classroom and how she wants things done. And you know there's been some conversations that the other person involved doesn't agree with what she said or how she's doing it, but she is sticking to what she feels is right for her and for her students and for her classroom and I commend that because I feel like that is one thing that a lot of people don't have, especially, you know, when you first start teaching, because you don't know you, you don't know really what works or what you should say or what you can say or what you shouldn't, that type of thing. I feel like she already has that, which is quite remarkable and very cool to see. I think the other ones, in terms of skills that they have, I think overall they're navigating the curriculum as well as they can.

Speaker 4: 14:27

I think they don't necessarily understand their curriculum right, they're just going through the standards or whatever program their school has for them, rather than you know making those connections that you do as you get more fluent with what you're teaching and the grade you're teaching and the content you're teaching. But to me that's kind of a skill that you do have to learn as you go.

Speaker 4: 14:53

It's not something that you necessarily just have right away. You know, some people have a little bit more awareness of it, but I think overall they're doing pretty great, juggling all of the different things that they're having to manage and also trying to just enjoy being a teacher, because that's what they just finished four years of university to do, so they're excited about it, but then you also have the realities of what that job entails.

Speaker 2: 15:27

They for sure, and we know that across the world, a huge percentage of teachers leave within the first five years of getting into the profession. That's not just in some countries, that's all around the world. We have this mass exodus in the first few years. So, knowing the people that you're working with now, what sorts of things do you think could help our new teachers to stick around for a bit longer and stay in the profession, or what are the obstacles that you're seeing that might stop people from staying?

Speaker 4: 16:02

Yeah, I think not feeling like they have enough support is probably the biggest thing. I really appreciate this organization, because that is the role of me essentially is just support in order to retain teachers in those first few years, because a lot of schools have instructional coaches now or they have reading specialists or math specialists or whatever they have, but that doesn't necessarily always equate to support. Yeah, it's someone they're keeping you accountable for implementing the programs that the school has bought and wants you to implement, kind of not always, but a lot of the time. You know we. It's really great when school districts are like look, we have this person we're going to bring on to help us with instruction, but that's one person for an entire school and if it's K through fifth grade or K through sixth grade, that's a lot of teachers they have to support and help, you know, with instruction. And so I think that's probably the biggest obstacle is just support and like not necessarily knowing who they can go to to ask for help, even simple things like I remember my first year teaching. It was like two or three days before school started and I remember this so vividly. I asked my friend Gina at the time and I'm like I think there's a really weird question that, like, I don't even know how to take attendance no, no, I just love that, and we were like that just well, school, we did it literally in a paper book, so it's not like I had to learn an online program or anything like that, and so we just always had a giggle about that, because it's just little stuff, right, like it's all of those things that just pile up and you don't really know how to prioritize. What should I be spending most of my time on? Right now versus you know how does that shift happen once school starts, versus once you start doing groups, versus once you start doing, you know, getting into your curriculum a bit more intensely?

Speaker 4: 18:08

So I think support non evaluative support for teachers is really what they need, especially at in the first few years, because I mean, I think this is really great that I get to be their mentor for the first year, but then, but then you're on your own. So what about your second year? What about your third year? Like, yes, your first year is your hardest, but you also don't really know what's going on, right, yeah, right. So you're in your second year, you know that fog is kind of lifted a little bit and you're like, oh, that's what that person was talking about, but then you still need help refining and implementing things right. So yeah, I think my first you know suggestion would be for all schools that there's just support in some capacity that, like, is a person that a teacher can just go to and ask those weird questions or those things that they're like I don't know, Like I found this really a great lesson, but you know how do I adapt it?

Speaker 4: 19:12

or is this actually a good lesson, kind? Of thing, yeah, and I think I've really tried to stress to all of the teachers I've been mentoring that they should ask for help. So ask another teacher. It doesn't matter if they're on your teaching team, it doesn't matter if they are also another brand new teacher. You know like get whatever ideas you can from wherever. You never know which one's going to work for you.

Speaker 4: 19:40

I never know which one's going to be like oh hey like that's so much better. I'm going to just do that Like yes, even now, you know, I'm teaching for over 16 years. I'm like if someone has a better idea than mine, I'm happy to take it, like I don't need to be the idea generator.

Speaker 4: 19:59

Absolutely not no, if you have something that works better, I want it, because I'm all about making this job as fun. You know which is what it's supposed to be. It really should be fun because it's such a great career, especially if you love kids. But it's all the other stuff that just gets overwhelming and then it's hard to stay focused on that. You know reason why you went into it in the first place? Yeah, for sure.

Speaker 3: 20:31

You had mentioned to and kind of alluded to this before. But we were talking about how you were kind of coaching one teacher to let go of some of the you know, because there's so much packed into a program you can't do everything, and I think just that like permission for someone to say, like just let go of that, Like you don't have, it's not possible or reasonable to think that you can do all of those things Right, I think teachers really need to hear that.

Speaker 4: 21:01

Yeah, I think you know, especially in the US over the past so many years, is this big? You know a new buzzword of fidelity. We're going to do everything to fidelity.

Speaker 3: 21:13

Right.

Speaker 4: 21:15

Right, which no, something great, right, Some things that works. But that also takes away any teacher autonomy, any teacher creativity, any flexibility, right. And we know that we can't just teach a scripted program. We know that our students are different from year to year. Today, my students might be completely different from Tammy's, whose classroom is right next door. To mind Right, like absolutely, and not just assume that every student at that grade level at that school is at the same place at the same time, yeah.

Speaker 4: 21:58

So yeah, one of my mentees was she was given a reading program, which is great, especially when you're just learning how to teach reading. Awesome. It's a great resource, right. But keyword is a resource. So you know she's having to do science of reading on top of this reading program, which is, you know, the science of reading. Lessons that they're doing are grammar and you know spelling, all of that stuff, which is also great, wonderful. But then to do a reading program that just doubles up on some of that same stuff, you know she's like I don't know how I'm going to fit all this in and I need to do a whole group because I can't, I don't have enough time to do a small group if I do this and this and this. And I kind of just told her well, let's look at one of the lessons, let's go through and look at all the parts and what is it covering? And is that something you're already doing in another setting, you know another context, or is that something that you should piece in because it's not covered somewhere else?

Speaker 4: 23:09

So, basically, we read through it and I'm like well, this little chunk over here is really all you need to teach, because everything else is already covering in some other capacity. And she was just really you know, I could tell she was really hesitant about that and kind of like I don't know if I trust your advice right now it's okay, I always tell them I'm happy for you to question me or, you know, not take my feedback.

Speaker 4: 23:37

I think that's good if they don't, because then they're starting to think for themselves and like really analyze what's you know coming at them. But I just like, I just don't know. My instructional coach said blah, blah, blah, you know. And so I just looked at her and I said I don't really think I need to do this. I said, but I'm going to, I'm going to give you permission to not teach this entire lesson and just teach the part that you think is going to be most beneficial to your students. And she just kind of looked at me like oh my gosh, like and you can just see this like relief of like, oh, wow, you know. And I think I've had a similar experience with other ones where I've just said like yeah, look, you know, your principal said they're already coming at you, coming to you at a deficit, so whatever you do is great. I'm like there's your ticket right there.

Speaker 4: 24:37

You know, like you don't have to teach this program every single day at the pace that it's telling you to, because you're already way ahead of where they are anyways. That's your permission. That is your permission to slow down if you need to. That's your permission to do a lesson over again if they didn't get it. So it was too hard, you know. So it's just been interesting to have those conversations that they're looking for that like validation or that quote unquote permission to not do everything.

Speaker 2: 25:17

Mm, hmm, yeah, wow, that's a good message, I think, for all of us. Really, nicole, I feel like time always runs away from us, doesn't it, tammy? But I feel like we should ask you for a pare down pointer, if you can. I'm sure there are so many things that you could advise for our new teachers, but do you have a pare down pointer you can think of today? That's a good question.

Speaker 4: 25:45

I think and I say this to myself as well like in Tammy and I've talked about it before. I think we've talked about it like just keep it simple, like it doesn't have to be fancy, it doesn't have to be over the top. It can be as simple as like reading a story to your students and having a discussion. It can be as simple as putting a box of books in the middle of the room and having them find facts in them and then sharing them with each other. You know like, yeah, it's, it just doesn't have to be complex, it doesn't have to be showy, it doesn't have to be this big ordeal to be effective learning experiences. And if it meets your objective, then perfect.

Speaker 1: 26:35

Yeah.

Speaker 4: 26:35

Right, like we don't have to make it this big thing when it doesn't need to be.

Speaker 3: 26:41

Yes, yes.

Speaker 2: 26:43

Yes, another good reminder for us.

Speaker 3: 26:47

Yeah, thank you so much, nicole, for being with us. Again, thanks for having me.

Speaker 2: 26:54

Today's episode was brought to you by Plan Z Professional Learning Services Forward Thinking Educator Support. Find out more at PlanZPLServicescom.

Speaker 1: 27:07

Be sure to join Tammy and Christine and guests for more episodes of the Minimalist Educator Podcast. They would love to hear about your journey with minimalism Back with them at PlanZPLS on Twitter or Instagram. Your music for the podcast has been written and performed by Gaya Moretti.