Episode 2: Indefatigable

In this episode we interview Bron Lowe, the force behind Ability Advocators. 

Get some raw insight into her back story, as we discuss the importance of names, sexism in the workplace, single parenting, and her unlikely love story. 

This is part one, of a two-part feature with Bron. 

Join us for part two as we discuss Bron's experience with toxic relationships, and the unexpected impact that this had on Bron's mental health. 

Read the transcript here:

https://enabled.buzzsprout.com/2191914/12941656-episode-2-indefatigable

Transcripts available for each episode on the website: https://enabled.buzzsprout.com

Let us know what you think!

Get in touch with us through Facebook:
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Or email us on:
podcast@advocators.com.au

This episode is brought to you by Ability Advocators:
https://www.advocators.com.au/
(02)65 824 946

Transcript

Episode2: Indefatigable

Kirsty: [00:00:00] All right. 

Hi everyone and welcome back to Enabled, the podcast where we talk about, normalize and celebrate disability and mental health. And we are here today on the podcast with the one and only, the indefatigable Bron Lowe. 

Bron: What is that word? 

Kirsty: Yeah. Did you like that one? So as I was preparing for this podcast, I thought to myself, what is one word that I would use to describe Bron? And that was the one. 

Bron: Oh my goodness. And what does that mean? 

Kirsty: Yeah, well, it means persevering or working tirelessly for those playing along at home and I just, I think that's you. It's, it's for me, I just, I feel like you get things done and you make choices and take risks seemingly fearlessly. For those of us lesser mortals who maybe [00:01:00] procrastinate or struggle to get beyond the ‘talking about things’ stage.

I just think it's so impressive to watch you get things done. 

Bron: Right, right. 

Kirsty: So that's our word for the day. 

Bron: Okay. Say it again. 

Kirsty: Indefatigable 

Bron: Indefatigable. 

Colin: I was just going to Google that just to make sure it's a word, but it is an old ship's name as well. HMS indefatigable. Yeah. 

Kirsty: Colin, what is the one word that you would use to describe Bron? 

Colin: Oh, that's difficult one, only one word, 

Bron: particularly on Valentine's Day. That's very... 

Kirsty: Exactly right? It's Valentine's Day as we record. 

Colin: It's a loaded question. It is. Maybe I'll refuse to answer that on the grounds it may incriminate me at a future date. 

Kirsty: Well, it leads us into the elephant in the room that I feel like we should mention, which is that Bron, you are in fact my boss and you are married to my lovely co-host, Colin, and you are my boss. And Colin's, but I feel like those two things should kind of make us a little bit nervous about this episode? [00:02:00] 

Bron: Right, right, yes.

Kirsty: I don't know-

Bron: Well actually Colin is just as equal a boss as I am. 

Kirsty: Hang on a second. Are you my boss, Colin?

Colin: Yeah.

Kirsty: Mm-hmm. Okay. That has changed all of the power dynamics in this room. I what could go wrong people? Let's find out. Alright! 

Bron: Nothing at all. 

Kirsty: Anyway Bron, so I want to establish something about you from the outset, which is something that I find super interesting about you and that is that even though- so your full name is Bronwyn. You actually hate being called Bronwyn.

Bron: Absolutely hate that name. 

Kirsty: You would prefer that we call you Bron, and that's- that's what you want to go by. 

Bron: Yes. Actually, I would change my name completely, but I just don't think people would actually stop calling me Bron and call me whatever else that I fantasize. Yeah. I even thought maybe Bronte. 

Kirsty: Oh, I like that name. Yeah. I considered that for my kids. Bronte. Yeah. Bronte. Hmm. Does your mother call you Bronwyn? 

Bron: Yes.

Kirsty: Does [00:03:00] your husband call you Bronwyn? 

Bron: He doesn't really call me anything. 

He just goes, okay, ‘Wife dearest’. If he's, you know, done something wrong or he'll- what did you say to me the other day?

He actually went, ‘Hey’, I went Did you just, ‘Hey’ me? 

Kirsty: it's funny actually in relationships how little you use... 

Bron: Yeah. And we've never had pet names either. You know how some people have like little pet names, you know, smooch Bear or some, something very nauseating like that. But- 

Kirsty: Smoochy Bear, there's one for all the lovers out there on Valentine's Day.

Bron: Mm-hmm. Yeah, no, we've never even had pet names, so interesting. I don't know. 

Kirsty: Yeah. So I have a question. It- This is kind of a weird question, so stay with me on this one. I'm going to ask you the question and then I'll give you, I guess, the reasoning behind why I'm asking the question so you can think about your answer.

Alright, here's my question. Do you feel like not liking or not identifying with your name [00:04:00] has had any kind of deeper or subconscious impact on you? And here's why I'm- here's why I'm asking. I love names. I just think they're really cool and I feel like. They really connect you to a person on a deeper level, and that, who was it?

Dale Carnegie, who wrote ‘How To Win Friends and Influence People’. He said a person's name is to that person, the sweetest and most important sound in any language. So they're, they're significant. And I relate to that. I mean, I don't know, this maybe makes me sound ridiculous, so we might edit this out, but I clearly remember in high school, give me a pass. I was in high school, I was about fifteen and I clearly remember basically falling in love with a guy because I liked how he said my name. I remember the first time I heard him say it out loud and I was like, whoa. We are in trouble, 

Bron: Right, The way that he said your name? 

Kirsty: Yes, it was…

Bron: Yeah. I must admit, [00:05:00] I do like it when- particularly I find it’s older men tend to call me Bronny and I love it. Yeah, I love it. I just, yeah, it just, it sounds so much nicer. And I, yeah, I, I'm always getting sort of- You know that I'm strong and I'm firm and I'm, you know, this person and I kind of, and I guess I think that of the name Bronwyn as well. It's very kind of political or, you know, it's strong and its firm and its Bronwyn and it means chicken breast and it's just not a prac- it's not a nice name.

Kirsty: What? 

Bron: Yes, yes. It does mean that. 

Kirsty: No, it doesn't.

Bron: No, it means white. White breast. White breast. Yeah. Thank you, dad, Thank you.

Kirsty: Bronwyn means white breast? Like of a bird? or just... 

Bron: I did not explore it that far, but it is true. I do only like Chicken breast. 

Kirsty: I thought you were going to say something else!

Bron: No. 

Kirsty: What's in a name, [00:06:00] folks? 

Bron: So when, when I, when people call me Bronny, I sound, I really like it actually. Not many people do. And I feel like it's not the name that you can ask people to call you as an adult. 

Kirsty: So, okay. Would you like us to call you Bronny? 

Bron: You can call me Bronny if you like. It makes me sound sweeter. 

Kirsty: Okay. I'll try to remember that. What do you reckon, Colin? What do you think? 

Colin: I'm just being quiet. 

Bron: Good move. 

Colin: Yeah.

Kirsty: This is what happens when you interview your wife. Alright, so this is a podcast about disability and mental health. So I'm going to ask you from the outset, do you have a disability?

Bron: That's a big question. Really. I am living in chronic pain, tend to downplay Mm. It as a disability. But yes, I do have a disability. 

Kirsty: And you obviously you work in the, in the disability field. How did that come about? 

Bron: Well, that was very organic actually. I was literally planning on I had [00:07:00] come out of a season of chronic pain surgery drug addiction to, you know, pain medication, you know, being in bed and I'd come out of that stage.

I forced myself to continue to work because I'm. Indefatigab- or whatever, 

Kirsty: Indefatigable. 

Bron: That's right. And so I had forced myself to keep going and I had sort of gotten to the stage where I actually was fairly recovered. And as long as I was careful and had sort of regular exercise and, and massages, I would be okay.

So I started considering going back into the corporate realm. Where my, where, you know, my degrees indicate, but a friend of mine needed some help and begged me to be her NDIS provider. And I said, I have no idea about NDIS, but when I saw her state, I could not leave her in that state. So I said, well, look, between you and me, we will work it out.[00:08:00] And that started my journey. 

Kirsty: Amazing. So it's not a, an industry then that you had in any way anticipated finding yourself in?

Bron: No, not, not at all. Actually, it had been suggested to me once before and I dismissed it, but probably because my original career was a nurse. Yeah. So it's sort of been in that world. My father was in special education, so I'd grown up going to, you know, activities and things with my father with disabled children. So it wasn't an unusual, it wasn't a, a scary environment to me. But no, I hadn't actually planned it. However, when I was considering going back into the corporate world, I was considering doing a non-profit.

Kirsty: Right? Mm. Yeah, interesting.

Bron: Rather than a corporate, because I didn't like the competition level. I didn't like that money hungry- I have no love for money, [00:09:00] so I wanted to do something more worthwhile. Use my skills, but in maybe, you know, a large non-profit. 

Kirsty: And what was the learning curve like for you when you did? Start working in the disability industry and with NDIS? 

Bron: Well, because I've probably studied a lot and I've done my degrees, I did all by correspondence on my own, sitting in a room. And learning something like computer programming by yourself is really, really, literally, you can feel your brain stretch.

So I am used to the fact that when you're learning something, it gets, every single time it gets to the point where you just about to throw in the towel. It is so overwhelming that you just go, you know what? I can't do this anymore. And then if you push yourself just that little bit further, from that point, it starts to go downhill. It's like it hits. And then it's, ah, now it's starting to make sense. Yeah. So yeah, NDIS was no different. 

Kirsty: [00:10:00] And so you started out as a nurse? And was it after that, that you sort of swung in the completely opposite direction and then did IT? 

Bron: Yes. So I thought I'd sort of probably just be a computer programmer at home. And that's why I chose IT. But then Colin took over while I studied. Mr Mum, and he was so good at it that I went, well, why don't you keep doing that and I'll do the career thing. And so yeah, that's what we did. 

Kirsty: Yeah. Great. That's cool. And that worked. That worked for you guys, worked for you, Colin? 

Colin: Seemed to work pretty good.

Yeah. 

Kirsty: Yeah. Yeah. Did you find Colin, any, because it shouldn't necessarily have to be, but the sort of paradigm that we have in society of, childcare and roles, I suppose, in a family that kind of reverses that paradigm, doesn't it? What was that like for you? 

Colin: Didn't worry me at all. 

Kirsty: Just cruising.

Colin: No, there was a there was a couple of other guys that I would run [00:11:00] into at different things that were doing similar things. But no, yeah, it didn't worry me. 

Kirsty: Yeah. Cool. That's great. That's excellent.

Bron: Mind you, there's not a lot that does worry Colin. Just putting that in there. But he was so good at it. Like he just was very natural for it, you know, the presumption is that the women are, are, are geared that way, but I totally am not. Yeah. And Colin totally is. So why disadvantage the kids. 

Kirsty: Exactly. 

So great that you guys were able to flow with your skillsets and say, well, what's my strength? What's your strength? Let's go with that. Yeah. So you then Bron, so you are working and you've worked as a nurse. You've worked in IT and I would anticipate, especially at the times that you were doing them nursing, pretty female dominant profession. Its probably fairly male dominant. 

Bron: Massively male dominant.

Kirsty: What was that experience of being a woman in the workplace Like?

Bron: I made a concerted effort to never wear dresses. Never wear skirts. I always wore trousers. I always found oddly enough that if I [00:12:00] wore dresses and pretty things, I was taken less seriously. And you very much had to prove your capabilities. You were always proving yourself, and I just found that competitive. I don't particularly like reminding everybody how wonderful and intelligent I am. Like, oh  yeah, yuck. 

Kirsty: Were there any moments. That sort of come to mind immediately of sort of blatant sexism or wear this- 

Bron: Oh, absolutely, absolutely. I had one person that He, he actually knew my qualifications and I think it bothered him because he was less qualified. He'd been there longer, but he didn't have pieces of paper like I did. So he would- I remember sitting in this meeting and we're all gathered around. I'm the project manager. I'm trying to understand what things need to happen in the process to get the… whatever, up and running that we were working on, and another female technician was explaining the process of what she would need to do, [00:13:00] and this guy turned to me and said, would you like me to explain that to you, Bron? It looks like it's all dribbling out one ear. And I just sort of looked at him like and then I just completely acted like he didn't speak and I turned back to the female and said, sorry, keep going, What were you saying? And then I pulled him aside and I said, what was that? What is your problem? Why are you always trying to spar with me? But it was his insecurity. I don't know what it was 

Kirsty: Good for you for calling him out because my experience of that sort of thing is that, it took me so much by surprise when something like that did happen. And I guess so I had one moment that I clearly remember. There was lots of that sort of casual stuff, but this one moment that I clearly remember, I was at the Supreme Court so we're talking like lots of money in this case, right? [00:14:00] We had a junior barrister and a senior barrister. So I'm there representing a client, quite an older gentleman, and he at one point said to me, and it was me and I think the junior barrister there, and he said something along the lines of, I would quite like to put you across my lap and spank you. 

Bron: Okay.

Kirsty: And I was totally gobsmacked. I was not in any way anticipating something like that to come from him. We're in a courtroom, I'm a solicitor, he's the client, but also he's the client in like a million dollar case or whatever it was. What do you say? And I, if I could do it again, I probably would have said something, but even the junior barrister later said to me, are you like, that wasn't okay. How are you feeling?

Do we need to address it? And I feel like so many times you feel like as a woman in the workforce, I don't want to make a fuss, [00:15:00] right? I don't want to make a big deal out of things. I don't want to be a cause of drama. I don't want to be high maintenance because that's the worst thing you can be as a woman, isn't it? So I did nothing. But good for you. 

Bron: Well, I think I too grew up my original work environment was- it was far more sexist than it is today. Yeah. And it was very common for men to make sexist comments and stuff like that, particularly, you know, as a nurse and all of that sort of stuff. So you learn to laugh at it. Yeah. And just roll with it. And, and I was conditioned to Have my own way at getting them back. Ah, yeah. So not be a victim in any way, shape, or form. 

Kirsty: How? Because I feel like I, I feel like women so much are conditioned. To be polite at all costs and not to make a fuss and to appease other [00:16:00] people, even if it means putting ourselves into uncomfortable situations. That's how I feel like women are conditioned at young girls especially who, who grow up into women. How is it that you were conditioned not to be that way? 

Bron: I don't have any idea. I mean, I still say that when, from the, from the moment I was in kindergarten, I was treated equally to the boys. We didn't, there was not a lot of distinction. Boys and girls sat the same tests and did the same sometimes once you got to high school, the boys would do woodwork, which I wanted to do, and the girls would do sewing, which I didn't want to do. Yes. And that bothered me, but that was about the extent of it. So in every other shape or form, we were treated as equal. So I didn't have the belief. That I was less than equal and I never have. And I think my parents said we were all created equally. Yeah. Do [00:17:00] you know what I mean? So I, I never had the understanding that they were better than me. 

Kirsty: That is fascinating to me. Okay. Alright. Well, let's move on from that. I think maybe we could come back to that in another episode, but you guys are married.

Bron: Mm-hmm. 

Kirsty: Let's talk about that.

Bron: So we, so we believe- 

Colin: So we think 

Kirsty: hopefully. How, I mean, tell us the story. How did you meet? 

Colin: There's awful silence there. 

Kirsty: Do you remember?

Bron: I've done enough talking. 

Colin: She was my tenant, for a while. Yeah.

Kirsty: I did not know that. 

Colin: When I was in a previous life as a real estate agent.

Bron: Honestly, do you think that's the first time that we met? 

Colin: No, I You didn't say that. 

Bron: Oh, okay.

Kirsty: Strap in folks. 

Bron: She actually said, where did you meet? 

Kirsty: I said, how did you meet?

Bron: How did you meet?

Kirsty: How did you meet.

Colin: At church? 

Bron: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I actually went in town. I actually went, said she was church hopping to find I was church hopping. Yeah.

Colin: To [00:18:00] find a boyfriend. 

Bron: Yep. Oh, I decided to find a boyfriend. Yes. Yes. I figured that. You know, I'd, I'd done the nightclub scene and that the result of that was quite dismal. So I might go look for a man somewhere that, where that man doesn't think that he's all it. Yeah. So I thought, well, I'll go around and see who's at the churches.

Kirsty: And you found what-

Bron: I did. Well, I wasn't immediately attracted, shall we say, 

Kirsty: but,

Bron: but, 

Kirsty: You've said to me something about the first time you saw Colin. 

Bron: Yes. When I, when I first saw him, I knew that he would be the one, and I kind of went, oh, he's not really my type. Yeah,

Colin: I don't know what type I was.

Bron: No, you just, well, you were, you were dressed quite uncoordinated.

Colin: Well, well, I thought so.  

Kirsty: You just have, you have a unique and quirky. [00:19:00] And very self-assured way of dressing. Colin, you do not- You dress, when people say dance, like nobody is watching you dress like nobody is watching and I admire you for that. 

Bron: I love that. 

Colin: That's, yeah, okay. I can handle that. 

Kirsty: That's a good thing. It's a great thing. 

Bron: That's a good thing. 

Colin: Yeah. 

Kirsty: So bold. That's a bold realization. You meet someone best time ever. This is, this is my guy, Colin. Did you have a similar- 

Colin: No, it only took me six years to catch up. 

Bron: Ah, yep, yep. Yes it did. Yes, but I was actually helping him at that stage then in his business, so at the real estate business. And his father had a heart attack and Colin needed some extra support, and so he asked me to help him. Yes, because the only reason I became a tenant was to get his attention, and frankly, it failed. So, and he still owes me $10. I'm just saying Right. 

Kirsty: Dock his pay 

Bron: Right? I overpaid him one week so that- [00:20:00] To give him an excuse to come and, and give me the money back.

Colin: I would go there. 

Bron: I was making all the moves.

Colin: I would go there to cla- and she wouldn't talk to me.

Bron: I, I, I was shy.

Kirsty: No, I'm with you. I have zero game.

Colin: I am way outnumbered. 

Bron: Yes. 

Kirsty: This is amazing. But you really, like, you strategized this. 

Bron: Oh mate, I was, I, I was terrible 

Kirsty: But it worked. There you go. And so, but you were. You were a single mom when you met Colin?

Bron: Yes.

Kirsty: Let's talk about single parenting for a minute. How old were you when you became a mom? 

Bron: I was 20 when Jerome was born, and I turned twenty one three months later. And that's when I left his father. 

Kirsty: Right. So you were so young. 

Bron: Yeah, but I thought I knew everything at that age. You do think that you know everything. So, and I'd been outta home for, since I was 17. [00:21:00] So I'd, I'd lived in nurses quarters, I'd nursed all over Sydney. I'd lived with lots of friends. You know, I was a big experienced woman of the world. In my mind. 

Kirsty: I came across a podcast the other day called The Single Mom Podcast, and she had an episode that was called Single Moms Should Fund the World. And we've talked about your work ethic. Do you feel like single parenting gave that to you in a way? Or what- What do you think the impact of single parenting was for you? 

Bron: I think I already had a good work ethic. Mm-hmm. I was always somebody who wanted to do the very best that I could, and I was always fast and efficient. I think it was the, the kick up the bum I needed. Right. Because when before that I was the sort of person that just went with. The current. So I didn't bother whether, I didn't care whether I was in a boat. I didn't care which way you know, the river was going. I didn't care if there was a giant big waterfall. So what? We'll, we'll fall down it. Whatever [00:22:00] I had, I gave no real thought to things. I gave no long-term thought, so I just went with the flow, which was really. Immature, I suppose, or just dangerous really some of the people that I hung out with. So it made me be responsible because I had somebody else's life that I was responsible for. So I grew up and it was exactly what I needed actually. Yeah. 

Kirsty: And were you keen before you met Colin, were you keen to re-partner or did you sort of wanted to avoid relationships for a while. 

Bron: Oh, sadly, I was obsessed with re-partnering. I don't know why. I should have just enjoyed the time with my son.

Why didn't I focus on that time that I have with Jerome and just enjoy that. But no I was, I was looking to get married. I was kind of counting on my fingers how long? Okay. It'll be a year. We'll get to know one another or then we'll be like, you know, engaged for a year and yeah, like I was counting it and I.[00:23:00] I focused on the future and not the present, and I, I regret that.

Kirsty: And do you feel like that was because you felt like as a single parent, there was something missing in your family unit? Did you feel like you had to solve a problem? Or what do you think was driving you to. To that need in you to Re-partner.

Bron: I think I had created the problem in my own little mind because in fact, Jerome had a really fantastic father figure in my father, and we lived with them except for the six months that I was in Collins unit. I I lived in a downstairs apartment from them. So Jerome had that role model. But I had invented in my mind that we should be married and, you know, have the same picture of a family that I grew up with.

Yeah. Otherwise that's wrong. But also, I didn't fit in to anybody's group, so I didn't fit in with the mothers and, and [00:24:00] all Jerome's friend and their parents. And I didn't fit in with my friends who were single, so I had no place. Mm-hmm. So I, I presume that would be the solution. 

Kirsty: Yeah. What was dating like for you as a single mom? Did you have any disaster stories? Was it- 

Bron: yeah, so I think I was it was, it was kind of helpful to have Jerome because he was a bit of a buffer, so, you know, you could tell those guys that were being really artificial. I just, I didn't want artificial, you know, the sort of guy that will just throw roses at you and all of that sort of stuff.

I, to me, is very fake, and so when they deliberately just, You know, fell all over my son and, and, you know, kind of really butted him up. I didn't like that. Yeah. I thought that was a bit invasive. Colin did the opposite. He just let Jerome come to him, which was Yeah, just more respectful I thought. And, and Colin sort of had no fake-ness about him.

Kirsty: Colin [00:25:00] let's weigh you in here. What was the experience for you of dating a single mom? Did that give you pause? Knowing that Bron had a child, Bronny had a child, 

Colin: I suppose again, at the time I didn't really think much about it. I mean it did. How I did not comp- complicate, it's not the right word. 

Bron: I remember you saying that you didn't know quite what to do. Like, so at one stage my mother got upset that, you know, this Colin guy hasn't even taken you out for dinner. But he didn't know whether that was Okay because I had Jerome. So he didn't, he didn't know what was appropriate. 

Colin: Yeah. It was difficult in that way. 

Kirsty: You were trying to cater it to, to respect her life situation. 

Colin: So do I include, Jerome as well, and yeah, it was difficult for me to figure out exactly where to go. 

Kirsty: Yeah. Did it- was the [00:26:00] fact that Bron was a single mum moment of truth, is that why it took you six years? No. 

Colin: No. That was my own what? Insecurities or Yeah, whatever. That stopped me. 

Kirsty: Yeah. Cool. Okay. Well, and now you guys are married and so. Blended families. I think they're no longer the exception to the rule. It's just part of the fabric of life. But I think also they would have their own unique set of challenges and your primary relationships are so, and the, the health of those relationships are so crucial to our mental health. How did you guys navigate that? Did you do anything intentionally? Would you do anything differently? Looking back? 

Bron: We had a, a crisis. And that's what kept us together. So actually there was two in a sense. There was the death of a cat. I was, we, Colin and I were fighting. This was before we were married. We were fighting about something and [00:27:00] I was, we were on our way. I was dropping him home. I think, I don't know why I was driving, but I was dropping him home and I fully, in my mind, was never going to see him again. 

Kirsty: But this is your one.

Bron: This is no. No, this was it. The line that was way over this, the line, the line was drawn in the sand at this point, and then I hit a cat.

Kirsty: Oh no. 

Bron: A cat ran across the road and I hit this cat and it was literally the, the pet of a vet and out the front of the vet, out front of the vet, the cats ran into the, to, to the vets and under the stairs and basically died. And we've rang the vet. He was. Not at all forgiving and I was bawling my eyes out and Colin just beautifully comforted me and that actually brought us back together. I was literally done. Amazing. Yeah. And so it was the death of a cat. 

Kirsty: So the cat was your cupid and the cat sacrificed its life. For your love. This is a beautiful, 

Bron: this is an [00:28:00] amazing story. Yes. 

Kirsty: Of a cat. And a couple 

Bron: and the sacrifice that that cat made and had that cat not ran in front of our car, at that point in time, we might not be here today. 

Kirsty: Amazing. 

Bron: It is. It is. 

Kirsty: There's a movie in this. You guys need to like start shipping the rights somewhere. Wow. 

Colin: Animated. Yes, yes. Animated. 

Bron: Animated, yes. Yes. So that no animals are hurt during the production of this. 

Colin: That's right. 

Bron: Right. Yes. So the second one was actually not at all funny.

Our daughter aged three, just turned three, nearly died, and she went into keto acidosis, which basically means that she had become an insulin independent diabetic. Oh, nice. I had been to the doctors, they had dismissed me as a, as a ridiculous overprotective mother. And e eventually went to a second doctor who gave me the benefit of the doubt and ran tests.

And finally she was caught in a, in a really [00:29:00] serious state of keto acidosis and could have died. Wow. And y we were at a point in our marriage where it was either going to break us or make us mm-hmm. And we just started to work together as a team. Yeah. Prior to that, probably we did not at all. It was just me being. Being the single mother, the Copa, the do everything, the get it done person. 

Kirsty: Hard transition to go from you do everything. Yep. To suddenly we're a team. Yep. Yeah. 

Bron: Yep. And it had to happen. One person cannot be responsible and Colin totally stood up. He totally took the, the mantle, like even over and above it was the catalyst and it was just what brought us together as a team. It was amazing. Yeah. 

Kirsty: Yeah. There you go. Yeah. It's. Interesting, isn't it? How crisis can Mm. You know, can be I don't know, what's the word? Like it can be strengthening, it can be the thing that moves you in the direction that you need to go in. [00:30:00] 

Bron: Yeah. Well, I, I would take it a step further. I believe that every crisis has a treasure, every single crisis.

So you need to find it. Some are harder to find than others. I think there's a treasure in every, every single situation. Yeah. Yeah.