#9 Jerusha Mather: Dating, The Bachelorette, and Medicine

Jerusha Mather is a Neuroscientist and disability advocate with cerebral palsy.

In this episode we talk to Jerusha about her campaign to be the first disabled Australian Bachelorette, why the producers turned her down, as well as the work that she is doing with dating apps like Tinder to make them more safe and inclusive spaces for people with disability.

We also discuss Jerusha's long-held dream to become a Doctor, and the barriers that she faces in that quest that have resulted in a David and Goliath legal battle.

Resources:
To sign Jerusha's petition to make dating apps more inclusive for people with disability, click on this link: Petition · Bumble, Tinder, e-Harmony: Make your platforms more inclusive of people with disabilities · Change.org

Transcripts available for each episode on the website: https://enabled.buzzsprout.com

Let us know what you think!

Get in touch with us through Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/EnabledPodcast/


Or email us on:
podcast@advocators.com.au

This episode is brought to you by Ability Advocators:
https://www.advocators.com.au/
(02)65 824 946

Transcript

Kirsty: [00:00:00] Hello and welcome to Enabled, the podcast where we talk about, normalise and celebrate disability and mental health. So today it's kind of a full circle moment for Enabled, actually. It's kind of a milestone moment because if you look back to the very first episode of Enabled, our pilot episode that we recorded, we talked about our dream guests and today's guest..

Now I've got you… 

Colin: I've got it. I've got it. I understand.

Kirsty: Oh dear. The wonderful Jerusha Mather. She is one of the guests that we spoke about in our pilot episode of, like, in our wildest dreams, we would love to have these people on the show. 

Colin: And she was so interesting.

Kirsty: She was so great. Yeah. It was actually, I was thinking about whether or not it was a bit of a surreal moment to interview her, but actually the actual interview, I don't think it was, because she was so easy to talk to.

Colin: Just like talking to you across the desk. 

Kirsty: I think for me, the surreal moment actually was when she said, yes. You weren't in the office, I remember. And I got the email and I freaked out and I immediately took a screenshot of it and sent it to you with some, you know, fairly contained words of exclamation, because I was so excited.

That was my surreal moment.

Colin: I can remember that. Yes. It was surreal. Yeah. 

Kirsty: Yeah. But she was wonderful. So we've got that episode coming to you now. We talk about The Bachelor, Colin's favourite subject. We talk about dating apps. We talk about David and Goliath court battles. It's really good. Really worth listening to.

Also though, our first remote interview. So the sound is potentially a little bit different than what you're used to.

Colin: You may need to tweak your little volume control thing a little bit, but hey, I think it's pretty good. 

Kirsty: Worthwhile. Worth it. All right, well, here we go. Let's hear it. 

Kirsty: [00:00:00] So Jerusha, thank you so much for being with us today. I'm a little bit nervous actually, because I'm, I'm such a fan. So I'm kind of -  

Colin: You've made her day.

Kirsty: You have!

Jerusha: Aww, thank you so much!

Kirsty: I want to talk to you about the way that I sort of found out about you, which is because you are campaigning to be Australia's first disabled bachelorette. Which is super, I think it's the coolest thing ever. I would love for that to happen. I would 100% watch your season. What was it that inspired you to start that campaign?

Jerusha: There's not a lot of people like me in the media and on shows like The Bachelorette. And you feel a little bit left [00:01:00] out and a little bit secluded. So, I thought, why not? Because people with disabilities... We have a lot to offer in a relationship. And sometimes producers get a little bit scared and a little bit worried about what people think.

Jerusha: Yeah, but people are very open to this. And they really want to see it. 

Colin: Yeah. I've got to ask you. What did your parents and your friends think about it when you said, Oh, I'm going, I'm going to go on the Bachelorette?

Kirsty: Were they supportive or were they like, this is a bad idea? 

Jerusha: My mum and dad were really supportive. But some of my friends said, Oh, um, that show is revolting, or that's so like, bad. But yeah, I, I can understand where they're coming from. Even I felt a little bit [00:03:00] hesitant. But you know, somebody needs to stand up first.

Kirsty: From an outsider's perspective, it seems like you are really motivated by making a difference and want to stand up against obstacles and barriers. You've got a whole bunch of petitions on change.org. You are happy to sort of step out and be a, a pioneer basically and a trailblazer.

Kirsty: Why do you think you have that motivation and what has given you the tenacity, I guess, to just keep going when you come up against those sorts of obstacles? 

Jerusha: Well, I think my life experiences as someone living with CP,  [00:04:00] I think that really motivated me to stand up for myself and for, like, people with disabilities and try and share some truth, you know, because I think we live in a world where people tell us all kinds of things about what some things should be like, you know?

Jerusha: Our world is really changing, and people's perceptions are changing, and even people's perceptions on beauty are changing, and people's perceptions on relationships are changing. So I think [00:05:00] what these producers really need to start listening to the people. 

Kirsty: Yeah. Yeah, definitely. So speaking of producers, you actually had a meeting set up with Warner Brothers to talk about the possibility of you being the Bachelorette.

Kirsty: How did that go? Is it, will we maybe see you on our screens in the near future? 

Jerusha: Well, um, that meeting… Basically, they said that because the previous season of The Bachelor didn't go too well, because of, they put, like, a woman of colour and a bisexual women on, and the ratings went down or something. Um, they were concerned about the ratings.

Jerusha: So, [00:06:00] they said that until they increase their ratings, they wouldn't be able to consider a person with a disability. And that was really disheartening. 

Kirsty: Yeah, so they, they equated that, that drop in ratings to the fact that they had somebody from a diverse background, 

They thought that that was the reason that they had had a drop in ratings. 

Jerusha: Yep. Exactly. That was really disappointing. 

Jerusha: I was even shocked at that. Like I was like, whoa. Oh my God. Yeah. That's shocking. Yeah, it's really disheartening as well. 

Kirsty: I feel like it's been a while since, since the Bachelor has [00:07:00] been exciting and authentic.

Kirsty: I feel like the problem is in authenticity, because you have a lot of people coming on the show who want to be influencers or, you know, that classic not here for the right reasons. Not because they're now including more diverse people, that's mind blowing. 

Jerusha: Exactly, and I think they always have the similar type of people on there.

Jerusha: The slim bodied people with very little diversity on there. If I was ever the Bachelorette, I would have changed that, you know, because, you know, I would have wanted, like, people with disabilities on my [00:08:00] one. And people with different sizes and shapes, and, you know. There's a variety of different beautiful people out there, and you know, there's not just one type of beautiful, you know?

Kirsty: Yeah, yeah, I 100% agree. 

I feel like intellectually, most people understand that representation is important and it's powerful and that a lack of representation can be damaging, but at the same time, I think most, if not many people, maybe we don't actually get it on a personal level. I feel like I don't actually know what it feels like to not see myself reflected in the media, and it might not be maybe to the standard that I would like it to be, but especially these days, I can turn on the TV.

Kirsty: I can open a magazine, I can watch a [00:09:00] movie and I can see myself reflected back to me or even an aspirational version of who I might like to be. Can you explain to us the impact that it has on a personal level when you don't have that? 

Jerusha: Exactly, um, it is very like, bad for your confidence, for your self esteem, to not see people like you on, like, popular TV shows, like, you know, The Bachelors, or Home and Away, or, all those really cool TV shows, and you, you don't see yourself.

Jerusha: And you're like, hang on a minute. There should be more people with disabilities on these shows. Why not [00:10:00] include them because it's kind of like, better for society to see more people like myself. And then they can get some understanding of what my life is like, and that I have feelings and emotions, and I can, you know, do stuff, despite my disability.

Kirsty: Yeah, absolutely. Well, let's talk about then dating apps and dating generally because you also have been very vocal about changes that you think need to be made with dating apps. Can you tell us what you think needs to change to make them better for people with disability? 

Jerusha: Yeah. I have a friend who does some work with [00:11:00] Tinder and she's been helping me trying to, you know, speak with them and try and create changes in the space.

Jerusha: So, she's been really helpful. I think, overall, with the dating apps, there needs to be, like, a more safe place for people with disabilities, because people on there, they don't always think about what they say before they say it. Whether you have a disability or not. Yeah. Some are just quite nasty on the there. And you know, people actually, they get really hurt, and you know. That's why I'm really scared to put my stuff on there, because 

Jerusha: It's really scary. That's why I would prefer to work with a match maker, because you know, you have that person to mediate. It's not like, going to be like a dating app, where you're overwhelmed. 

Kirsty: What do you mean by a matchmaker? Does that still happen? How do you find matchmakers? 

Jerusha: Well, you just google matchmakers! You just email them. 

But there's not many good matchmakers in Australia though. We, we need more. Better matchmakers in Australia. 

Kirsty: Yeah. Let's campaign for that. 

Colin: There's an opportunity for you. 

Kirsty: Yeah. Well I couldn't do it. I'm too, no, I'm super awkward in [00:13:00] dating scenarios. So I would be a terrible matchmaker. Also a terrible date.

Jerusha: Somebody needs to do it. Like it could be really successful. Because people don’t like those dating apps, so they will come to you.

Kirsty: Yes, I love that idea. But no, listen, I, because I was talking about you to a lady who we're going to have on the show in a couple of weeks. She'll be a guest that we have on. And she told me her experience of being on dating apps. And that she... There's this whole sort of big decision at the start about do you put your disability on your profile so that it's up there and immediately obvious and people know, or do you not do that because you don't necessarily want to be defined by your disability and you get to know somebody first.

Kirsty: And then let them know about your disability as one of the many sort of interesting and important things about you. And so she, she decided to go that second route and she was [00:14:00] talking to a man for a decent amount of time. Everything's going really well. They really connected. It seemed really promising and she felt safe enough to let him know about her disability.

Kirsty: And then she just never heard from him again. He completely ghosted her as soon as she said, Oh, by the way… I just kind of, I can only imagine that that has such a terrible impact on self worth. How do we stop that from, what would your message be to people with disability and people without disability who are using dating apps?

Kirsty: What, what should people be doing? 

Jerusha: You have to be strong in yourself. And just put yourself out there and see what comes, you know? Because some people are really nice and open minded and non judgmental. So, I think it's really important to be open minded. And [00:15:00] most of the people that are rude on there, or mean on there are mean to everyone. They are not supposed to be on there. So, we can knock them out. 

Kirsty: Yeah, I like it. Very good. So, in addition to, you know, everything that you've got going on with like, you know, you're working on dating apps, you've got this campaign about The Bachelorette. Arguably much cooler than that is that you're a neuroscientist.

Kirsty: And, tell me if I get this right, you're studying the impact of non-invasive brain stimulation on strength training in patients with cerebral palsy. Is that right? 

Jerusha: Yep, that's right.

Kirsty: How's that going? Like, when do you think you'll sort of publish your findings and is it going well? 

Jerusha: It'll be in about a year or so.

Jerusha: We still have quite a bit of work to do on the lab. [00:16:00] Due to the pandemic, it got delayed, a lot, a lot of my research got delayed. So, um, it was a really horrible time to do a PhD and there were so many problems coming my way that I had to tackle that in like a normal world, that wouldn't have happened.

Kirsty: Yeah, well speaking of the barriers that you've experienced as a woman of science… Your dream for some time now has been to study medicine and to become a doctor, but you've come up against a brick wall there. And I mean, you know, medicine is, I suppose, by design, a hard to reach profession. And I think most people would agree that that's a good thing and that you want the best and the [00:17:00] brightest sort of minds to be studying it and to become doctors because it is such a critical profession.

Kirsty: But what you have said is that the entrance requirements to a medical degree actually preclude a lot of our best and brightest minds who also have a disability and is actually discriminatory to, to people with disability. Can you tell us what that is. That's the discriminatory factor?

Jerusha: It's really tough becausethe common barrier is probably the biggest barrier would be the test that you have to do.

Kirsty: That's the GAMSAT, the graduate medical admission test. It's like more than five hours or something like that, isn't it? 

Jerusha: Yeah, it's really, really tough. Like, I did it twice, and it's really, really tough. But, what is most [00:18:00] challenging, is when you can't write quickly, or you can't read quickly. The people that run it...

Jerusha: are not very flexible. They have all thesepolicy documents that tell us what they're looking for. Or what, you know, they think in their mind is what contains a medical student. I think that's ridiculous because I think you can still have a disability, and still become a doctor.

Kirsty: Yeah, absolutely. 

Jerusha: I think a five hour test is full on for anyone. It's really hard. And I think [00:19:00] they, they have pathways for indigenous students. Where they don't need to do the test. So why can’t you have one for people with disabilities? 

Kirsty: Yeah, so there's a pathway for indigenous students to get into study medicine without having to sit the GAMSAT.

Kirsty: But that's not available to people with disability. 

Jerusha: No, that's why I said, look, you need to consider people with disabilities, because we are the most not represented in the medical field. 

Kirsty: Right, the most underrepresented group. Which is crazy because people with disability make up 20% of the population.

Kirsty: So, you would anticipate that they should make [00:20:00] up a larger percentage of doctors. 

Jerusha: Exactly, and we have so many willing people like myself, that are willing to give it a go and genuinely want to study medicine. You know? Because they love the body. They love helping people. And let's just give them a go, man.

Jerusha: Now, there's lots of ways we can do things in medicine. I don't know the true intention when they say they want to include students, but they haven't made these pathways. 

Colin: Yeah, I think it's a very Australian thing to like, give people a go, that's the Australian ethic, and to [00:21:00] treat everyone the same and fairly, so probably just needs to, yeah be one of those things. 

Kirsty: And also, this is especially shocking to me in light of the fact that we're in the midst of a national shortage of doctors. So, you know, they should be very motivated to make pathways available for people who would be great doctors to get in the door and give them a shot at doing it. 

Jerusha: Yeah, I'm not sure if I can say this, but I will say it anyway.

Jerusha: I am taking the medical schools to Court, and it is a really serious matter. I am taking a big risk.

Jerusha: It's like all these big guys. 

Kirsty: Yeah, David and Goliath situation. 

Jerusha: Yeah, [00:22:00] I know. Yeah, it's like David and Goliath. 

Colin: Absolutely. And we know who won that. 

Kirsty: Well, exactly. That's right. 

Kirsty: Based on what I have read about you, my understanding is that you've wanted this for around six years or possibly more than that. You've been trying to get into medical school and the fact that you have not just given up, that you sort of keep pressing, keep trying and saying, you know, I see an injustice here and I'm going to do everything that I can to remedy that.

Kirsty: Gee, that's tough to do. And I so admire that you're doing it. 

Jerusha: Yeah, I think, I hope I can, you know, do something with [00:23:00] my court case and really try and win and, you know, help some students in the medical school because... I really believe that if a student really wants learn, they should be given chance.

Jerusha: Yeah. And there should be no barrier because we're quite intelligent, but in like situation with the GAMSAT, our intelligence

Jerusha: may not be reflected because our needs are different and our ways of thinking are sometimes different and sometimes we may be put at a disadvantage because of our, like, [00:24:00] different way of processing things and doing things. The type of test is really quite gruelling and, you know, I did try very hard with it, but even then I was struggling with the writing, also the reading, because you need to read things, like, in one minute.

Jerusha: Yeah. You need to read a whole paragraph or like a whole page in one minute.

Kirsty: As you say, it's not reflective of intelligence, it's not reflective of capacity, it's just reflective of how quickly you can read and how quickly you can write. 

Colin: That's right. Yeah. 

Kirsty: It’s such an important thing that you're doing to challenge the restrictions that they, they put on it.

Colin: And also to inspire [00:25:00] people with what you've been able to achieve. I was just thinking, we've just done an interview with a young girl who, what's Jas, just 17. She has cerebral palsy and vision impairment. She's in the training squad for the para matildas. And she's a sports freak. She just loves sport, but she's a great soccer player.

Colin: She's really cool. I'm going to make sure that she listens to this podcast when we've got it sorted. Because I think you'll be inspiring for her, but I reckon you should listen to hers 

Kirsty: We’re just plugging ourselves 

Colin: I think, I think she's pretty inspiring and she really wants to be a motivational person, not just for the disabled community, but for everybody.

Jerusha: Oh, wow! Amazing! 

Kirsty: Speaking of Jasmine, actually, there was something that she said that I wanted to talk to you about, which is, [00:26:00] I want to talk to you about disability pride, basically. I feel like... It's not something I really knew much about before we started this podcast, would you agree?

Colin: I agree. 

Kirsty: And I'm really, we're really enjoying learning about it. And Jas, in her interview, she described cerebral palsy as being the best thing that could have ever happened to her. And I've heard you, well, I read an article that you wrote where you described yourself as being proudly disabled. Can you talk to us about what disability pride is and what it means to you?

Jerusha: I think I am proud to be who I am. Because of my disability, I have achieved... I feel motivated in a sense to make change for a lot of people in the community.

Jerusha: I [00:27:00] understand their point of view and where they are coming from, and you know, I really want to, you know, help or see where, where I can help, try and bridge those gaps, because I think my main goal in life is to, like, think about good ideas and really put them to, really try and make them a reality because I think it all starts with a good idea and you know, I think if you have a good idea, you should go for it because why not?

Jerusha: Because people might think you're crazy. Just challenge their [00:28:00] beliefs and keep going and you know. Don't worry about what people think of you. You are a wonderful person and you have so much to offer the world. Good things will come to you. 

Kirsty: Well, you're definitely a change maker, Jerusha. I see all the big ideas that you have and the way that you really take steps to realise them and to put them forward.

Kirsty: I just think it's incredible. I applaud you. Yeah, I think it's amazing. 

Colin: Well, we’ll have to stay in touch with you, Jerusha, to see what's going on. And what other exciting things you've got lined up.

Kirsty: That's right. You will definitely have to keep us in the loop. And you've been so generous with your time, Jerusha.

Kirsty: Thank you so much. 

Jerusha: Thank you. Thank you so much.[00:29:00]