EPISODE 50!! Special Episode with Tommy Zaferes talking all things Triathlon and Olympics as we celebrate 50 episodes!

We are celebrating 50 Episodes of @anothertriathlonpodcast with hosts Jenna-Caer, Fede and Josh

What does it take to transition from being an elite athlete to nurturing the next generation of triathlon stars? Join us as we celebrate our 50th episode with Tommy Zaferes ( @tzaferes) , a former professional triathlete now making waves as a talent scout for USA Triathlon. Tommy opens up about his exhilarating journey from competing at the highest levels to identifying and developing future champions. He goes behind the scenes of the collegiate recruitment program, offering a unique glimpse into the strategic decisions that shape the sport's future. Plus, his dual role as a World Triathlon photographer brings an artistic perspective to the fast-paced world of triathlon.

As we gear up for the Olympics, the episode delves into the complexities of Olympic selection criteria and the intense pressure faced by federations. Tommy offers an insider's perspective on the strategic decisions surrounding athlete selection and the dynamics that influence these choices. We also explore the anticipation and excitement leading up to the Olympic races, analyzing top contenders and potential race strategies. To wrap up, we share a fun segment on a local race bet, giving a light-hearted yet competitive twist to this episode rich with insights and stories that every triathlon enthusiast will relish.

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:03

Welcome to another triathlon podcast, the podcast that brings the electrifying world of triathlons right into your headphones. Journey into captivating conversations, share the excitement of race recaps, enjoy the humor only a triathlete would understand, and join us as we debunk myths and bring you the bare, thrilling truths of the triathlon world. So feel your heart pound, breathe in anticipation and get ready to dive into the world of triathlon. This is another triathlon podcast. Enjoy the ride.

Speaker 2: 0:40

Here we go, episode 50 of another triathlon podcast brought to you by Mana Apparel. I can't believe it's been 50 episodes already just over a year of geeking out on triathlon every week, and we are so excited to continue to do so, but joined, as always, with Josh. How are you doing today?

Speaker 3: 0:59

Doing great. I'm excited for our guest to show up for our 50th episode. And the man's been traveling all over the world and found time to show up for our 50th episode. And the man's been traveling all over the world and found time to to join us for episode 50 and, yeah, what a year it's been. And, uh, we just recorded another awesome episode and, uh, now we've got our 50th and off and running. Never, uh, we didn't think we'd get it to five to ten and it just kept going. It's like we we couldn't go a week without talking to each other first off, and that's what makes it the best absolutely, and I still.

Speaker 2: 1:29

It was funny. Just a little while ago, the instagram reminder of a year ago, the first episode, went out and I just recorded a little you know one or two minute teaser of what was going to come up and had no idea what would be ahead. This was was pre-Josh, but it's been great to have you join us, myself and Fede, and make this a lot of fun. Just the conversations we've all been able to have, just giving different perspectives on the races and the events out there has been so much fun.

Speaker 3: 1:57

Yeah, we still have my one year coming up in a couple of weeks.

Speaker 2: 2:00

There we go Counting down, but to celebrate, we wanted to do something a little bit different with. We have our pro series where we interview pros, and this one's a little bit different. We have someone who was a pro but who is now very involved in the development of other pro athletes. But, josh, you put in the work, you got them on the episode. Why don't you tell us who we're talking to here?

Speaker 3: 2:23

yeah, so we've got uh world triathlon photographer and usa triathlon um for the, the development team, uh talent scout um tommy's affairs joining us for episode 50, and what a career he had. Um obviously ended a little bit early than he had hoped, but he's been around the sport for a long time and knows everyone, knows everything about it and and as you're here in this episode, he is a huge fan of the sport and it just oozes out of him how much he loves being around it, talking about it, helping others come up through the sport.

Speaker 3: 3:04

as an elite swimmer who turned into a triathlete, he's now trying to do the same for elite swimmers and elite runners and getting them into the USA triathlon world and traveling the world and giving us some of the coolest shots that there are out there in the world of pictures and triathlon sports. And he's a super Sherpa for his his wife, katie Severus. So, um, really cool interview. You guys are going to love it and you enjoy as much as you do.

Speaker 2: 3:32

Absolutely. If you geek out at all on triathlon, he will have some great insight into the Olympic distance, what's going on with team USA and, of course, like Josh mentioned, with his wife, katie Zafiras. So take a listen, enjoy. He has some really great insight into the Olympics and the sport and the selections especially, which we are all counting down until we see who will make some of these big name teams. But stay tuned and we hope you enjoy. As we mentioned, we're here with Tommy Zafiras and we're going to have some fun talking all things triathlon and, I'm sure, a few discussions around the Olympics here, because that is definitely the topic on everyone's mind these days, just having the recent race in Cagliari. But first we'll jump in and say hi, tommy, how are you doing? Welcome to the podcast.

Speaker 4: 4:17

Hey guys, thanks for having me. This is awesome. I always like to talk about triathlon, since it basically encompasses my entire life and my entire existence. So, yeah, always happy to join a podcast and meet some new faces. So thanks for having me.

Speaker 2: 4:35

Sounds like us as well, and, as always, joined by Josh, and we're going to have Fede jumping on here in a minute. But let's get rolling. Kind of tell us. What are you up to these days? I know you've been involved in triathlon for a long time as an athlete yourself, but what's going on in your world?

Speaker 4: 4:47

Yeah, so currently I work for USA Triathlon and the high performance team as a talent recruit is the easiest way to say that basically one of their most successful programs in the past the CRP or the collegiate recruitment program. So the program that found Gwen Jorgensen, katie my wife, disappears Summer Rappaport, taylor Spivey, kirsten Kasper, renee Tomlin the names go on like all these national team level athletes that were vying for Olympic spots, who are some of still the best US performers right now on the circuit that program that was started back in 2011 or whatever. I'm now in charge of the program, so it basically started with a certain format and then kind of fell away from that and then I was brought on to kind of bring it back to its original form with a little bit of tweaks. So that's encompassing a lot of my time. I also work with like the entire development side of the sport, with USA Triathlon and developing the next generation of athletes, and I'm in charge of what's called the Talent ID program.

Speaker 4: 5:52

So it's not just CRP anymore, it's now we do it for high school athletes.

Speaker 4: 5:53

So the same kind of you look for world class runners who have a swim background, and that was the collegiate recruitment program.

Speaker 4: 5:59

Teach them how to ride a bike, bring them to camps and stuff. Now we're doing it at the high school level and then I also do it for para triathlon. So there's three different programs that are part of the talent ID program and then I work closely with the high performance development team with our U23 athletes and what we call the Olympic pipeline athletes, so athletes who are triathletes from youth, junior, u23, kind of developing themselves in that stage. So my role specifically is looking for athletes who have never heard of the sport, who are world class swimmers and runners, and getting them to try the sport and participate. And then the other you know, 10% of it is the athletes who are already triathletes, like helping them, mentor them and guide them through everything. So that's like the main part of what I do on the daily. And then I work for World Triathlon as a content producer and photographer at all the World Triathlon Championship Series races, as well as train with my wife, katie Zabiris, who is currently a professional triathlete.

Speaker 4: 6:56

Yeah, and we have an almost two-year-old running around as well, so it keeps you quite busy.

Speaker 3: 7:03

So you're the one who has 26 hours in a day. Yes, that's amazing. So what do you find are some of the biggest hurdles? Turning the single sport athletes into triathletes, because I would imagine they've had so much success at swimming or so much success at running. How hard is it for you to convince them to try triathlon?

Speaker 4: 7:26

So I've had pretty much a 100% success rate of reaching out, having like reaching out to the schools, having the schools pass the information along to the athlete, the athletes getting in touch, setting up the zoom calls, inviting them to a camp, bringing them to a camp, and we have a vetting process now. So basically they need to provide a like a video swim time trial of them doing a specific time in the pool, based on whatever their run times are, and then that gets them an invite to the camp. So if they're able to make it to the camp, that's like the first stage. The next stage is at the camp. We see how quickly they pick up bike skills, their confidence levels, their commitment to the sport, how quickly they pick up bike skills, their confidence levels, their commitment to the sport, how excited they are about it, whether or not they would pursue the sport, regardless if there's funding involved from USA triathlon or not. It's kind of like a bunch of different factors that we kind of see over the week or the course of the week at the camp and then after that, every single athlete, we come up with a unique next step plan for those athletes. So the athletes who didn't quite make it to like the top tier of being accepted in the program. We still work with them to set them up with a coach or a training environment, or help them decide which races to go to, what equipment to get, where to start, and then they can earn their way into the program based on their results. And then the athletes who straight out the gates were like these athletes are, you know, the cream of the crop, their future Olympic medal potential. We have kind of different tiered support and that comes in the form of finances, and so then we have an individual conversation with each athlete and then they each get an individual agreement based on what they showed at camp, and then they are able to build off of that support as we help them guide them through their race strategy slash, like earning their elite license, learning how to ride a bike, learning how to train as a professional athlete and then everything that is involved with that.

Speaker 4: 9:16

So basically my goal is to try to get at least 10 athletes like five men, five women to a camp that have Olympic medal potential and then from those 10 athletes maybe two, maybe three are selected for the program at like the highest level, and then after that everybody else we try to get like I'm not good at my job unless they're performing. So it's in my best interest to help them as much as possible to perform. So it's not like it's a gray or it's not like black and white, or it's not like black and white where you're like you're out or you're in. It's like we have this gray area where we help you as best as we can with the resources that we have to get you to the next stage in their career. And so back to your original question of how hard is it?

Speaker 4: 9:58

So far it's been 100% success rate, whether or not that's going to pay off. It's a long term. You know, we're looking at la, we're looking at brisbane 2032 even, and future olympics. So it's going to be, you know, four or five years down the road when we see any benefits or fruits of all this. Um, so yeah, it's so far, so good, uh, but we will see if that, you know, turns a new leaf with results and our development team.

Speaker 2: 10:26

Yeah, absolutely Now, before we go too far down the Olympic line with the upcoming games. I wanted to ask you've got kind of a unique story with, I guess, your transition from being an athlete to being in a position with USAT. So do you mind telling us a little bit about kind of your past history as an athlete and athlete and what happened and how you came to work with USAT?

Speaker 4: 10:50

The short version is I earned my elite license in 2010. I started racing as a professional full-time in 2012. I did the whole move to Europe and was racing French Grand Prix and started working my way up to try to qualify for the national team. Um, I ended up qualifying for like the lowest tier of national team based on results, and so I was getting funded. But then at that same time, I ended up having a heat stroke and seizures at a race in Texas in 2014. And that put me in a coma for 19 hours and luckily I came out of it and but that kind of like put a stop to my my racing career. I came out of it and but that kind of like put a stop to my racing career. I still raced professionally for until 2020. And I would just do like kind of the lower tier world triathlon races, the ones that work with my schedule. But at that stage in 2014, I just started training with my wife full time. I was having more fun doing that, it was a lot less pressure, and so it's just enjoying racing triathlon and training for fun and felt valuable to our training squad being able to help the guys in the swim and then help my wife on the bike and the run and, of course, all the women's squad, and I would jump in with the guys every once in a while here or there. So I considered myself a professional training partner. I never raced at the top level again, only at the bottom level, and at those races I would jump in the race with up and coming usat athletes, which is really fun because I'd be in a breakaway with them and I'd be talking to them like hey, this is what we need to do for these races, like you want to make it to the next level, like this is what we got to do and like. So it was really fun to kind of like be be there mixing it up with the next generation who they're now racing the world triathlon championship series, and so it's kind of fun to have that relationship background. But yeah, that's kind of the quick idea that how I got to work for USAT was.

Speaker 4: 12:31

I was actually working for ROCA for seven years and I started working for them when I had my right after I had my accident. Because it's like I need to make some income on the side of like just training full-time with my wife, so I need to be something. So I started working with them when they only had five employees and then worked with them all the way through 2020. They started moving from triathlon into eyewear, like super heavily into eyewear, and I don't know much about eyewear, so it was really hard for me and like kind of challenging in a way that I wasn't enjoying. So I kind of got burnt out on that.

Speaker 4: 13:03

And at that same time we went on a run in here and we moved to North Carolina and Summer Rappaport lived like 20 minutes from us and so we went on a run and she happened to mention on that run oh yeah, like this person's hiring somebody for the high performance team, and I had no idea what the job was and I was like, oh, I'm going to gonna apply for that. I don't know what it is, but surely it's in triathlon, so I'm gonna like it. When I found out what it was, I was like this is even more perfect, like, um, I have access to somebody who is super successful through this program. Uh, I'm like dialed in at the top level of sport and I know like what it's taking because I've done it myself, like going through the development channels and like I wasn't recruited when I found triathlon. I just found triathlon randomly, and so I had to kind of make my way through the professional ranks with no help whatsoever from USAT, and so I've done that aspect.

Speaker 4: 13:53

And then Katie had the total opposite story, where she came through and she never had to pay for anything. She had everything covered from USAT. Yeah, she had like the cream of the crop of all equipment and travel and living, stipends, coaching, everything. So we kind of had those two ends of the spectrum. And then, of course, like I'm friends with all these other athletes who have had different development paths, so like talking with them and finding out what they did. And then we're friends with international athletes and we know what their countries are doing in development, we know what kind of support they got and how their trajectory was.

Speaker 4: 14:24

So, just taking all of that information and then putting it into this role, I was like this is perfect for me. I can't wait to utilize this, because we go on bike rides all the time and we just discuss stuff like oh, how can we make the sport better? What would I do differently If I work for this federation? What would I do, or whatever. Now I'm in a position where I can actually do that and I believe over the last couple of years.

Speaker 4: 14:44

It was really challenging starting because everything kind of like was set and so you had to break everything down and then build everything back up and that's taken a couple of years, which is really difficult. But now we're in a place that everything already has a setup and so now we can start executing on everything that we've been kind of like building towards. So I was super excited when Summer had told me about that very randomly. I never would have known because I wasn't looking for a job at the time, I wasn't like searching the Internet for opportunities and it just happened that we went on one run with Summer that one day and she happened to mention that it just like everything fell into place perfectly, yeah. So that was pretty incredible.

Speaker 3: 15:24

And on top of it, I mean that's amazing that that all came to about on a run, which is pretty cool in itself. I mean it's natural for a triathlete to be on a run and find something cool out. But your background was also as an elite swimmer too, right. So you've got that whole aspect of having that as your background and now helping these kids who are coming with elite swimming backgrounds or running backgrounds. So you've gone through that same development process, really on your own, to make yourself a triathlete yeah, big time.

Speaker 4: 15:54

Um, yeah, coming from a swimming background was definitely helpful on the draft legal side of things, but the hard part was the running, because that's where the race is won, so so I would always have the race set up very nicely and always be in great position, but then executing, you know, the final cherry on top was always my struggle, and so, having gone through that myself, knowing what I'm looking for and which athletes are have been the most successful over the last 10 or 12 years. We found that, like, world class runners who have a significant swim background are the most successful, and any swimmers with somewhat of a run background or like whatever, it takes them over twice as long to develop through the pathway to the top as other athletes. So, and a percentage of athletes who are swimmers, who then ran is so small compared to the runners who are swimmers. From a federation standpoint, when you have limited resources, we're going to put our money towards runners of the swim background rather than swimmers.

Speaker 4: 16:52

So I actually have not been looking for any athletes like myself because I'm like well, I never made it to the top. Um, I don't really want another me that if they're going to, if I'm going to find another athlete, they need to be a lot better than what I was. So that's kind of how I use myself in terms of helping me recruit. But yeah, that whole dynamic is a little bit different because I am a different athlete than the athletes that I'm recruiting. But yeah, as you said, I've gone through the process, so that's all the same. Once you start, racing is figuring out travel and how to train properly through multiple events and yeah, that just fitness, balance and stuff like that. So I can speak to that.

Speaker 2: 17:31

Yeah, definitely, and you know I have to say I very much enjoyed the pictures and images that you get from some of these races. I've done a lot traveling with like Super League and all of those fun events, but you always got some really great perspectives and shots in there. So it was fun to almost follow Katie's journey with having you take, like showing it in images. At the same time it definitely helped me connect her a little bit more as an athlete and it's just fun when you can get those attention grabbing images that bring people into the sport or have them curious about it. So it's been cool to see what you've done on that side as well.

Speaker 4: 18:04

Yeah, thanks, I appreciate that. And I was working with a new photographer for World Triathlon and he doesn't have a triathlon background. He shot cycling for a long time and we were in Cagliari. But Cagliari and he was like man, this course is so boring, like what do you do? Like when the course is so boring and I'm like well, that's where my background in the sport comes in handy, because I'm like these are the areas that I know things are going to happen. So being able to anticipate moments, being able to like there's a group of 20 or 30 athletes, knowing which athletes you kind of want to focus on in certain places that you're going to be able to get a shot that changes things. So I think having that background is super helpful with being able to tell the story of the race in you know different parts, even if it's a boring course and not very exciting for photography no, that's fantastic.

Speaker 2: 18:56

It definitely makes it a lot more fun to watch. Now I guess we should talk a little bit about the olympic race, and we got a race coming up here in the next little while it sounds like. Correct me if I'm wrong, but all of the olympic ranking points are locked in at this point, I believe yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4: 19:11

Yeah, so may 31st is the official end date, but there aren't any races from after kagliari, so um, yeah that was the final one.

Speaker 2: 19:20

Everyone says that event differently. Like Cagliari, calgary, yeah, cagliari.

Speaker 4: 19:29

Yeah, if most of your viewers are from North America or Europe, we'll just call it Cagliari. If they're not from Italy, there we go.

Speaker 2: 19:41

So were you over at that event? You said you're over there um supporting taking pictures.

Speaker 4: 19:44

You're a part of it yeah, so I was working for world triathlon there and as a content producer, and and what content producer means is I'll work with the videographers and come up with ideas and then have them kind of execute on those ideas and then come up with, yeah, the content plan and like I'll coordinate with the athletes when we want to do a certain video of some kind and like we make a meeting point and it's just like more logistical things. Of like lots of time on whatsapp, of like all right, where are you going to be at this time for training? Like are you going to be at the pool? Are you going to be at the beach? Are you doing the course familiarizations? Are you going to be at race briefing before or after? Like is it better for an interview here or there? So kind of like navigating all that stuff and then, as well as doing like pre-race uh galleries and then race galleries as well, no, I feel you there.

Speaker 2: 20:31

It's always like uh, herding cats. I do the same for cycling canada up here in canada and it's definitely interesting trying to get everyone together, especially the athletes. They've got the race nerves going on, but you still need to get content with them, still need to get them organized, get them up to all their training sessions, and it's definitely not a boring job in there. So we have the racing done for this Olympic season. It's going to be down to a lot of it seems like a lot of discretionary slots this year. Have you found our federations making it more challenging? As a general, I know they all have different standards, but do you feel that federations are making it more challenging to get those automatic qualifiers so that they have more discretionary options, or do you have a sense of that at all?

Speaker 4: 21:16

I actually don't have a sense. A lot of criteria is built on past results of athletes and knowing. All right, if the athletes are able to achieve this, which they've done in the past, then it's easy. We can wipe our hands of the situation like it's all good, and if they're not able to get that, then we can take into account injuries or crash or race dynamics, quality of field and all that other stuff. So it's really tough to say, because you have to set this criteria years in advance and so you don't know what athletes are going to be performing, how many they're going to be, and really the discretionary stuff is only coming down to kind of like gb and um, the us, um, and then france, so the french men, gb women, gb men, and then, yeah, us men and women, because germany, they have all their slots allocated from everybody auto qualified, and those are like the powerhouse countries, you know, and everybody else who, from the smaller countries, have their criteria is typically like if you're top on the points list or if you are part of the team relay, that qualified the relay, then you're going. So you can like look down the list and you're seeing all these countries of athletes that they're finishing maybe 25th or like 30th at every single race and you would never have known that they're there and they qualified themselves for the Olympics. And you're like, oh, I didn't even think about that or wasn't following that because we're all focused on, you know, the athletes that have four, who only have three spots, and sort of thing.

Speaker 4: 22:48

So, yeah, whether the federations are making it hard so that they can have discretion, I think like that's the worst thing for federations is having to decide. Like it's's not a good thing, like we'd rather have everybody auto-qualified and not have to deal with committees and like votes and going back through years of this and athletes fighting for, like they're saying their piece about why they deserve it over others, or like if somebody else gets selected over another, there potentially could be a lawsuit, and then it extends the process. Like it's just money and time and nobody wants that. So they're not making it so difficult so that they can go through all this, because it's terrible, like nobody likes that, um, and so they just make it based on previous results, athletes that they believe can win medals because that's where funding comes from and then doing their best to have criteria that if the athletes achieve that they're showing medal potential and then after that, yeah, it's just up to them deciding what is our best case scenario for winning a medal at future games and getting our funding, you know, extended for the next four years, because that everybody's jobs kind of rely on that.

Speaker 4: 23:55

So, yeah it. Yeah, it's a difficult, difficult situation. I don't know if I answered that at all.

Speaker 3: 24:01

I mean how far back? I mean you talked about going back and past results and all that. I mean this is a unique year where there's only one auto qualifier on the female side and I believe even on the male side in the US team. So the discretion is there. It's not what they wanted. So how far back do you go and is the committee going to look at what do you think is going to be determining factors?

Speaker 4: 24:32

We've got a couple of athletes that's lives could change in the next few days and weeks. I honestly have no idea. I'm not allowed to be part of any of that and I don't even know who's on any of the committees or whatever. Um, I think I had heard something about it's. This olympic cycle, like the last two years, is like what the main focus would be. But there might be a clause in there that would take into account previous medal earners, or like podium performances in the past and like consistency, like people who haven't been injured I don't know, um and haven't been injured, I don't know.

Speaker 4: 25:00

And same thing for different countries. I don't know what they have in theirs if they have specific years like blocks. But also you could consider World Cups. They put that in there just because, like COVID years, they got rid of championship series races, so all you had to go off of was World Cups. Because, like COVID years, they got rid of championship series races, so all you had to go off of was like World Cups. Or if they had a race kind of like GB is putting their athletes head to head. They're like you can go to this race even though it's a Conti Cup, or like a European Cup, we're still going to use it to help consider a selection spot. So that's all written in the criteria, but I believe it just is like the main focus is the last two years, just the Olympic cycle. But yeah, I honestly don't know.

Speaker 4: 25:45

Yeah fair enough. It's certainly not easy.

Speaker 2: 25:49

Well, you guys are kind of in a good position good and bad position where you have so much talent coming through that it's a hard decision to make. That is a privileged place. Like you said, there's only a few federations right now that are right at the top that are battling it out to find out who they'll be sending to the Olympics. So we can't wait to find out what athletes those will be. Do you guys have a set deadline that you'll be making those announcements? Do you know? I know we're all on the edge of our seat to find out who's going to be going. Or I know we're all on the edge of our seat.

Speaker 4: 26:18

Just find out who's going to be going From the US or from World Triathlon. The US, I believe, have two different meetings, one. I don't even know the dates the hardest thing for me is from the US. I just stay out of all of it. I'm like you just tell me when it's all over and I'll find out. Because, yeah, like we find like all these legal, like conflict of interest things, and so I just know what Katie will tell me and I'm not looking into the criteria, I'm not reading documents, I'm just like, all right, I feel like you're covering all the bases, but from what she said, I think they have two different meetings, one on the 31st and another one on the 5th or something or 4th, and so after those two meetings, most likely they'll announce the team. So I would say somewhere in the next two weeks I don't know if they actually have an end date of when they have to nail the team down, but yeah, somewhere in the next two weeks from the US.

Speaker 2: 27:12

And then, from, I guess, the World Triathlon perspective, do you have any thoughts on how kind of racing these selections are changing now that the mixed team relay is really an additional medal that federations can actually earn? Um, have you seen athletes or federations kind of going about that qualification differently with that aspect?

Speaker 4: 27:31

oh yeah, definitely. Um, there's like federations that have a shot at winning a relay medal, but not necessarily individual individual medals. So Netherlands is one example. Who? They just don't have. Their athletes race the individual and then they save everything for the relay to go all in, and then same thing in the in terms of. We'll just use the U? S as an example.

Speaker 4: 27:51

We only have two men's spots, one of them, morgan, has, so the second person has to be in the relay, and because we are a medal contender, whoever races the individual has to do the relay, and so USAT is going to have to decide. Like, hey, do we think that if we select an athlete, they'll have a better chance in the individual at winning a medal, or do we select somebody who is going to help the team win a medal? Um, and so, and and those are two completely different athletes, and so that is going to be a huge topic of conversation at those meetings that they're having, because, um, yeah, same thing with gb. Gb only has two men, and so do they want to pick somebody who's going to be really good in the relay that potentially could be a domestique for alex? Um, do they want to pick somebody who's proven themselves in the past. Do they want to pick somebody who give them a opportunity for this olympics, because they're banking on them making la and they just want to give them one olympics under their belt so that the next time they do it, they they have that experience.

Speaker 4: 28:50

Um well, it's going to be really crazy to find out what everyone does because, yeah, there's so many ways to go about it and it's like you could have a hail mary opportunity or you could have like a safe bet and the hail mary could pay off huge, but then the percentage chance of that happening is so small that it's like, would that be a terrible decision as a federation? And like, would you be better off making a safe bet? But the safe bet might get you fourth? And like, yeah, so uh, everyone's gonna be just rolling dice and crossing fingers, hoping for the best. And, um, yeah, I, I don't know what's what's best, but I'm really thankful I'm not on any of those committees, because it seems like a nightmare to have to make those decisions oh, definitely that would be.

Speaker 2: 29:34

it's so hard to make and yeah, that's a lot of the discussion around, like johnny brownlee and stuff and GB and it's kind of like he knows how to get medals. But yeah, it'd be interesting to see if they throw him into that relay, See if he can do something there. But we can't wait to find out who's going to be actually on the starting line at the Olympics. A lot of athletes have said that the Olympics is you're racing a lot of familiar names and based on people that you're racing with all the time, but the tactics change up because you don't. It's almost weaker of a field in some ways in some races because you don't have all of the top names. You only have that top two or three from each federation. Have you seen, is there like a drastic difference when it comes to race day compared to a regular championship series race?

Speaker 4: 30:26

I actually love this question because we talk about it all the time the Olympics 100% very different dynamic because there's I don't want to call them filler athletes, because it sounds terrible, because they're really world-class athletes, but there's athletes that kind of fill the gaps from the top end to the middle and then to the athletes who are at the back of the field and so without those quote filler athletes, there's bigger gaps in the dynamic of the race. So that's the first thing is that in the Olympics the dynamics are completely different from any other World Triathlon Championship Series race that you'll see, any other World Triathlon Championship Series race that you'll see. The second part is when you have. I lost track of what my second part was.

Speaker 2: 31:07

Yeah, it definitely seems to change up the swim. Especially if you have the gaps kind of without the filler athletes in between, A lot of those gaps open up a lot quicker. It seems like you have the top, top, front-end athletes who are all swimming together and and if you don't have those in between, sometimes they can separate a little bit more as well yeah, oh, I remember the same.

Speaker 4: 31:26

Thank you for filling in the gap while I was completely brain frozen. Yeah, and I forgot again what the heck.

Speaker 3: 31:34

This is why we're professional.

Speaker 4: 31:35

Yeah, all right, somebody talking, so I remember again.

Speaker 3: 31:39

I mean, does it make it even more so of a swim run event, I mean? Or how important is the bike in the Olympics? Is it more important? What are your thoughts there?

Speaker 4: 31:50

I remember again. Okay, so in the lead up to the races, all the championship series races are all about qualification, and so athletes are racing to qualify, not to win a medal, and that is very different. So as an example, let's just use France. This is not true, but let's just use this as an example. Let's say Leo and Vince are racing each other for a spot on the Olympic team. They are not going all in on the bike together to create a breakaway, because they need to outrun each other, and this is all leading up to the Olympics. So two guys that could be game changers to create a breakaway are now not going a hundred percent on the bike, cause they're like all right, if I go a hundred percent, that's going to affect my run, and if Leo outruns me or if Vince outruns me, then I'm going to lose my Olympic spot. I'm not even going to make it there. So I'm going to be conservative and just kind of watch and then like, even if the groups come together, then I feel more confident running against him for seventh place or eighth place, cause if I beat him then I'm looking better in the eyes of the Federation. So they're not racing for winning, they're not going all in and it's like all or nothing. They're racing just to qualify.

Speaker 4: 32:59

And this is happening for multiple different federations when you're at the Olympic Games. Let's say we have the three French guys. They're all going to go all in to win a medal, no matter what. And it's way better at the Olympic Games to go all in and succeed or just fail massively than finish in seventh or eighth, because finishing seventh or eighth at the Olympics, nobody's racing just to get that spot. You're winning medals or you're finishing in 30th or whatever, and so they're all willing to go super deep, and then that changes the dynamic. So that was the second part that I couldn't remember multiple times for some reason. But OK, sorry. Back to your other question that you had asked when I was, uh, trying to scramble in my brain yeah, no, so I, I think so.

Speaker 3: 33:45

To me, with what you just said, the bike becomes super important in the actual olympic games because they're going to be full sending, trying to do the breakaway and hoping their legs hold up for 10K.

Speaker 4: 33:56

Yeah, so exactly that it's not going to be one of those sit around and wait. Everyone's going to be full on from the gun. As I said, the filler athletes aren't going to be there to kind of close gaps. Because you'll find that in races that you watch, there's athletes who are strong enough to keep gaps closing or to close gaps, but it just annihilates them for the run to keep gaps closing or to close gaps, but it just annihilates them for the run and so they kind of sacrifice their race for other athletes that will benefit from that. At the Olympics that's kind of not going to happen. There's not going to be those athletes who are strong enough to like bridge and close gaps.

Speaker 4: 34:31

So, 100%, I'm a firm believer that there can be a breakaway, even if it's a flat course and everyone's like, oh yeah, it's just going to be a runner's race. There's a 50% chance. It's definitely not a guarantee and I would like to think that everybody in the front is super motivated. It just is going to depend on where certain people, certain athletes, come out of the swim and who they're with and how that dynamic is in the pack. And yeah, I think on both the men and women's side there there can be a breakaway, or at least a small front group that's very motivated to work together. So yeah, time will tell.

Speaker 3: 35:06

You got to also make sure the water's clean too, so make sure they actually are swimming.

Speaker 4: 35:12

Yeah, I mean, that's a. If you look back at every single Olympics that's ever happened, this whole, all the water's dirty, there's not going to be a swim has happened at every single Olympic Games. So it's nothing new, it's just drama. It's a lot of yeah, people, media getting clicks and giving people talking points, but there will be a swim. They're spending billions of dollars on cleaning it up.

Speaker 4: 35:35

They're spending billions of dollars on cleaning it up and the way that the SEND works, you know, like they have in the past, like people are like oh, they had the individual race and then they canceled the relay.

Speaker 4: 35:44

Like how can it fluctuate that much?

Speaker 4: 35:54

It's like there's sewage and stuff that's coming in and they're tracking it miles and miles up the river and it comes in waves.

Speaker 4: 35:58

So there's clean parts and there's dirty parts. So if they track a time like of the race, of like when it's happening, if there's like a half an hour window where it's just disgusting water, then they can't run the race at that time, or it could be, you know, hours long, and then there could be hour long where it is clear and so if it happens to be clear or they're looking and tracking down the river, that it's going to be disgusting and not able to have a swim. Then they would just move the time to be able to have a clean spot. They also now have spent billions creating those extra pools where they're going to have the runoff, the water, to divert all that nasty water, to make sure that the clean water is just coming through. So for open water swimming, for triathlon, so anyway, I'm not worried about it. Nearly the same as, like all media, I would say 99.9% chance there will be a swim well, that's certainly what we hope to see.

Speaker 2: 36:45

You know, as much as I love a duathlon, um, it's more fun to watch the professionals play out. With a full triathlon I'd be stoked. It was a duathlon, yeah, it'd be really good to see. And do you have any, I guess, kind of hot takes on how the race may play out there? Um, let's start kind of with the men's. I don't know. We had christian blumenfeld last time, had an incredible performance but hasn't quite been up there again. Do you think he's got a shot at taking another gold and pulling an Alistair Brownlee?

Speaker 4: 37:16

You never count out Blumen, that guy. He's an animal Like, yeah, if you bet against him, then I would never bet against him, but he hasn't shown in this past year that he's at that level. But that doesn't mean anything. With that guy he's full focused on the day. That matters. He's from a country where he's basically qualified. Yes, he did need to race fairly well or whatever, but he had his slot basically locked in. He knew he was going, so he's able to focus 100% on this one day and that's when he excels like crazy. He's also probably very motivated that Norway earned a relay spot so that he gets multiple opportunities to win a medal. So whether or not the, the gold is coming in the individual or with the relay we'll see. But yeah, the, the, the bloomy effect like having double gold wouldn't put it past him, but he's gonna have his work cut out for him.

Speaker 4: 38:12

Um, there are so many names, like basically the top 15 guys that are going to be at the olympics. Nobody would be surprised if any of them won. You could just go down the list and dorian connick's, vasco Velasca, leo Berger Vince if he makes it either of those guys like Pierre Lacour, matt Hauser, hayden Wilde, alex Yee. All of these guys are all capable. Morgan Pearson like he's coming out of the woodwork, like. And then there's Tim Helwig, who was second in the grand final to Dorian and that sprint finish. And then there's guys like Miguel Hidalgo who, from Brazil, had one of the fastest runs of the day and Yokohama was just caught behind that crash and so he lost like 30 seconds, ran his way back to seven, but would have been on the podium probably at that race. And yeah, I don't know, there's going to be guys that show up that you didn't even think about. That were possibilities for winning a, winning a medal.

Speaker 4: 39:06

Tonger Lehman, from Hungary he's a junior world champion from 2018, u23 world champion from 2021. He was just on the podium in Cagliari, like finished third there. He could make the front group if there's a split, like maybe he's the fastest runner out of those guys, I don't know, like so I yeah, I've looked at a lot of it and I never like making those decisions about what I think could or couldn't happen. But I, because I'm a swimmer, I love the breakaway. I just I want a breakaway to happen every time, just to make it more interesting and exciting and like have the bike guys at the front be full on, have the guys in the back chasing full on. It never, you know, stops. And as much as as fun it is to have a full group and everyone's running for the medals, with six or eight guys, I like a breakaway.

Speaker 4: 39:51

Alex and Hayden. They're strong enough that let's just say the breakaway gets 20 seconds. That might make things crazy interesting. That's the other thing. Hayden's so strong on the bike. Where he comes out of the swim is going to make a huge difference with the rest of the field Incredible strength. Him, alex and Bloomy are both animals. They were only 10-15 seconds off the pack in Cagliari After one lap on the bike. They were basically in the main group. That's why the main group just completely exploded.

Speaker 4: 40:23

Nobody's used to riding with them for the entire 40K. They're used to having them them for the entire 40k. They're used to having them chase 45 minute back on. It takes them four or five laps to get on and then by that time they're like, oh, thank god we're here and the other guys are like, oh yeah, we had like some time to kind of like relax, get our heart rate down and like chill for a bit. So it's not that big a deal. But now they got to experience what it's like chasing, with Hayden and Alex driving the front and Bloomy. And then, yeah, people were just getting popped off the back and, yeah, the rain didn't help a lot of people who are newer to the bike handling stuff. But yeah, in Paris, man, it's going to be on and who the heck knows what's going to happen. But, as I said, I'm rooting for a breakaway.

Speaker 2: 41:08

That was such a great rundown just to get some of the. Like you said, there's so many athletes that it would be not like no surprise if they end up winning a medal, and there are so many men that are just doing incredible right now and we haven't had that domination by any one athlete. Well, okay, if I would see and hayden wilde show up, then they're probably gonna be racing in the front. Like you said, everyone's been racing to qualify and it'll be interesting to see how that changes once they're all racing to get that medal. There's nothing else on the line. This is the day to just go all in and see what you can do. Now let's turn to the women's side. What do you think? Is Taylor Nibb just going to tack off the front of the bike and do a solo 40k, or any?

Speaker 4: 41:45

hot takes.

Speaker 4: 41:49

Man, I would love to see that. Yeah, if Nib has kind of just been playing with people the last couple races which I wouldn't put it past her and she just goes all in because Paris only has one U-turn and it's like a double wide, so it's like a pretty wide U-turn but after that all the corners are like pretty sweeping and she's not the best bike handler so she does lose time in the corners. But corners like these that can kind of like stretch out the field just enough that she's able to maintain speed and use her bike strength, she could create huge gaps. I do think that Flora, and like Taylor Spivey and Katie, like, if she's there, or kirsten, if she's there, they could all go with her. But it's all going to be about positioning um and then whether or not the athletes, after they're able to go with her, are able to run off the bike. So let's say, sophie coldwell's there, um, georgia, taylor brown's there, kate wap is there, whoever um. Or like beth cassandra, like that's going to be really interesting to see how their run legs are after a Taylor Nib, you know, full-on show of time trial prowess.

Speaker 4: 42:55

But yeah, same thing, the swim's going to be very interesting where Taylor Nib comes out of the water and then, yeah, what her tactics actually are, and then what other athletes are there and their positioning and all that stuff. But I really hope same thing as the men's race that I don't want it to just be a random run race. I want the bike to be full on and to be a real, true triathlon where everyone's like talking about how insanely difficult the bike was and like athletes like Lisa Tersh may not make that, leonie may not make that front group may not make that front group. You know, um, I don't know like there's athletes who could be on the podium or be two minutes back, um, and it's all going to be dependent on, kind of, where nib comes out of the water and how committed, yeah, those athletes are. But, uh, if we had three americans in the front group, man, that would be amazing, like all of them just going for it. And, yeah, riding for medals rather than riding for qualification spots, that'd be, that'd be mad, do you?

Speaker 2: 43:56

think.

Speaker 3: 43:56

Taylor's tactics will be different if she's doing all four events that she could potentially be doing.

Speaker 4: 44:04

So word on the street is she's not doing the road race because that's the day before the team relay. So most likely and she also doesn't want to do the road race she's not trained for that and not, uh, yeah, probably comfortable doing that. But, um, most likely she'll be able to do the individual time trial, then three days later she'll do the individual race and then they'll. They don't. They can't add somebody um usa cycling anybody to the olympics to do the road race, but they can take somebody from like track cycling who has already qualified for the olympics and put them in the road race. So most likely something like that will happen. I don't know for sure, um, and then taylor can just full focus on on the team relay yeah, yeah, it's been fun to see her tactics um.

Speaker 2: 44:46

a couple times she seems to try it where she'll kind of hang around the back of the group and then go wide and try to attack. I'd love to see her do that, get a breakaway. Get like Flora Duffy jumping on her wheel, maybe Katie Sabiris, get like those strong cyclists and just have them crush a bike together and see what happens. That'd make it so much fun.

Speaker 4: 45:03

Yeah, that's my dream as well.

Speaker 2: 45:06

It was cool to see flora back, for sure yeah, you know it's funny, we haven't had so much racing this last little while because there have been like issues and all that fun stuff. But I feel like we don't have a good sense of the form guide like we typically do. Going into the olympics, it seems like everything is a lot more up in the air than it ever has been in the past, which definitely makes it exciting. Like everything is a lot more up in the air than it ever has been in the past, which definitely makes it exciting. Like you, really same with women's. There hasn't been any domination by anyone. Cassandra just won her first W2CS Olympic distance. Like you just don't know what's going to happen out there, and that makes it so much more fun to watch. But, tommy, was there anything else that you wanted to share?

Speaker 4: 45:49

Any thoughts on the Olympics or what's happening over these next few months with racing. Just I hope everyone tunes in and continues to follow the sport even after the Olympics, because you see a rise in people following kind of niche sports around Olympic qualifications and around the Olympics and then after that kind of like dies out. But hopefully the show that Triathlon is able to put on creates fans that want to continue watching for the rest of the season and yeah, even the different distances to the T100 series, to the Ironman Pro Series, to Super League, all that stuff just becoming fans of triathlon and fans of the athletes that are putting themselves out there to kind of be entertainment for us in terms of racing and putting it all on the line. So, yeah, hopefully that's what we can take away from this Olympics.

Speaker 3: 46:30

Will you be doing Super League stuff again this year after the Olympics?

Speaker 4: 46:34

So Katie will be racing. I actually just messaged them to see I'll be there, but we're deciding whether or not I should work or just be Kimball's daddy daycare, because if I'm working and Katie's racing, then we always have to bring somebody else with us to watch Kimball, which makes things a little bit more difficult and it's expensive. So we'll figure out whether or not working pays off for adding somebody extra to come. But maybe we have a family member that wants to take a vacation to Toulouse or to London and they volunteer their time to come. Come out with us. Maybe I'll work.

Speaker 4: 47:11

But yeah, we have two races with super league in the us, which will be really nice. We'll definitely have family there, so I could work at those races because we'll have people to hang out with kimball there. And then, yeah, I think we have a couple people that have already volunteered to come to europe for those two races and, yeah, just a little vacation. And so, yeah, I'll hear back from them, kind of see what they're offering and see if they need photographer at any of those races, and maybe only a couple. But I also have an opportunity to work with one of the teams as like a team manager, um, so I might do that as well, because then I could still be at the races and watch Kimball and hang out with him. Yeah, do some managing, whatever that means.

Speaker 3: 47:51

Well, if you need any Kimball help in the Boston area, I'm in Boston, so I'll be at that race that day.

Speaker 4: 47:57

Oh nice, Okay, yeah, we'll definitely hit you up. We have people in the area that can help out. Prepare your baby, bjorn.

Speaker 3: 48:02

He's ready to go, that'll be my first Olympic too, so I'm looking forward to that. I've done sprints in 70.3s, but that'll be my first Olympic Awesome.

Speaker 2: 48:13

That's fantastic. Well, thank you so much, Tom. We sure appreciate you taking the time and getting your insight from a little bit more inside the sport and the development team. It's really great to see what the US has got going on from that perspective. Maybe you can come over here and tell Canada how to get a few more athletes to the Olympics, but we appreciate it and we look forward to seeing everything that's going on with the Olympics and some more of the great shots you get and see how it goes with Katie's racing.

Speaker 4: 48:39

Awesome. Well, thank you very much for having me. It's always fun talking about triathlon, even if I do have a brain fart every once in a while.

Speaker 3: 48:49

You can hear how much of a fan of the sport you are, and I think that's what the three of us love about doing what we do and and you brought that passion, which is awesome to hear. And I guess my last question is what about your own? Racing. Like you said. You're doing some of the little stuff and a lot of support, katie, but do you have any other racing goals? You have an Ironman on the list or something that you might do long distance in cooler weather maybe?

Speaker 4: 49:12

That's funny that you bring this up, because I'm still training with Katie, a little bit less than what I used to, but to stay motivated, I didn't renew my elite license starting in 2020, and I wasn't planning on racing anymore. But I now have an age group license and I did one local race as an age grouper a couple of friends. I have a race this weekend actually another local race, a non-track race because one of the athletes that I'm recruiting. He's been winning all of his races that he's doing and he's like, oh, triathlon is easy, the sport's easy, but he hasn't been racing actual professional athletes and so I've actually been training pretty hard, um, and we have a little bet going that.

Speaker 4: 49:51

Um, yeah, so I'll race him this saturday and, uh, it's a non-draft race, but we'll both race on just our road bikes, no aero bars or anything, to kind of keep it fair. And, um, I haven't been swimming since tokyo. I don't swim anymore, ever, so that's going to be interesting as well. Well, but I've been riding and running a lot. So, yeah, hopefully I'll give him a run for his money and show him what true pros do in transition. And yeah, yeah, that's kind of what I'm training for is to to show my athletes what's up what race is this ringer showing up to tommy?

Speaker 4: 50:22

it's called the triangle sprint. It's here in North Carolina, 7 30 AM on Saturday Tune in Please shut down.

Speaker 3: 50:36

We'll have to see how that one goes.

Speaker 4: 50:38

Very cool, I appreciate you taking the time to do this today. Yeah, no worries, thanks for having me.