White Italian Wines: Exploring Lesser-Known Varieties with Chris Keel

In this exciting episode of Somm Women Talk Wine, we are honored to have Chris Keel, the owner of Put A Cork In It, a favorite Fort Worth wine shop, and a Vinitaly Ambassador, as our guest. Join us as we deep dive the world of lesser-known white Italian wines, revealing the hidden gems that make Italy the "go to" location for wine enthusiasts.

While Pinot Grigio and Sauvignon Blanc often steal the spotlight, Italy's diverse wine regions offer a plethora of unique white wines that deserve way more attention than they receive. Chris Keel, with his deep expertise in Italian wines, takes us through a curated selection from regions from the north in Piedmont,  Alto Adige, and Venezia Giulia, south to  La Marche and Campagnia.

Chris kicks off our exploration with Gavi from Piedmont made with the Cortese grape, and we deep dive into the aromatic Soave from Veneto crafted from Garganega.  While we don't specifically cover it, we highly recommend your  wine exploration can continue into Venezia Giulia, discovering the unique characteristics of grapes that thrive in this picturesque region.

Our journey continues in the northern region of Alto Adige, known for its crisp, citrusy wines. Here, wines include the vibrant flavors of Trebbiano and the fresh, light notes of local Pinot Bianco wines. 

We travel a bit south to explore the versatility of Vermentino from Liguria and Sardinia, and the rich, complex flavors of wines from Campania such as Greco, Fiano, and Falanghina.

Moving further south to Lazio, near Rome, Chris educates on how the region's unique terroir influences its distinctive white wines including Grechetto and Trebbiano. This region is increasing its focus on natural wine, a growing movement that emphasizes organic and sustainable winemaking practices, offering wine lovers an authentic and unadulterated tasting experience.

While we don't touch on them, we cannot forget the classic red wines like Chianti (Sangiovese), Cabernet Sauvignon and Pinot Noir, as well as the effervescent joy of sparkling wine. But stop in and visit Chris. He'll provide valuable tips on selecting great wines at an affordable price, making the world of Italian wines accessible to everyone.

Whether you are a seasoned wine connoisseur or a curious novice, this episode is packed with recommendations to enhance your wine journey. 

So, pour yourself a glass of your favorite Italian white wine, sit back, and join us on Somm Women Talk Wine as we uncover the rich tapestry of Italy's lesser-known white wines. Let Chris Keel's passion and expertise guide you through this delightful exploration, and get ready to discover new favorites that will elevate your wine-tasting experience. Cheers to the vibrant world of Italian white wines!

Join Put A Cork In It's Monthly Italian Wine Club today!

Tune in now and read on for a deep dive into the captivating stories and flavors that make Italy's white wines truly exceptional.

Transcript

Speaker 1  0:01  
Hey Charisse Hi Kristi, how's it going? It's going great because we're on a road trip. Just a little one exactly.

Unknown Speaker  0:11  
Up the hill for me down the hill for you.

Speaker 1  0:13  
Exactly. Well, we are actually for everyone who's wondering where the heck we are. We're at Put a cork in it in Fort Worth, Texas. And we have the pleasure of being with Chris keel. I know you're gonna learn so much from him. But our topic today

Speaker 2  0:27  
is Italian white varietals. We are super excited about this, because this is just basically an extension of the other summer whites. These are some varietals, you probably haven't heard of some lines that are great for this kind of weather, we are already spiking 100 degree here in Texas. So this is just the time of year that we start to look at some different options other than your, your standard, you know, staples that you usually have in the fridge.

Speaker 1  0:55  
Exactly. And what's so unique about Italy to me is you know, there are so many varietals in in a lot of them are very regional, so you don't really find them outside of that specific region. And that's why it's great to have Chris because he is a Italian wine specialist. He's going to tell us a little bit about that. But really, you know, when you think about the sense of place, you think about things like terroir, and I know that's a buzzword that either people love or hate. But these wines really do reflect so much of what's going on, you know, chromatically or with the soil or with the environment but also with the food and the people. And you know, you think about Italian What wine what comes to mind. Pinot Grigio, Pinot Grigio. So you know, we're going to go beyond your simple porch pounder white Pinot Grigio and we're going to talk about some lesser known varieties that actually, in my personal opinion, deserve a centerstage because what is my favorite white wine? A funky white wine?

Speaker 2  1:54  
We all know, we all know, the more obscure the more you

Speaker 1  1:58  
like. Exactly. So here we go, the more obscure the better. I guess that goes with the Christie winery. All right, so without further ado, let's invite Chris to introduce himself and tell us a little bit about Put a cork in it and also your Vinitaly certification

Unknown Speaker  2:22  
Welcome to some women

Unknown Speaker  2:24  
chalk line.

Speaker 1  2:25  
I'm Christie your resident whiner, educator and blogger.

Speaker 2  2:28  
And I'm sure he's your street smarts service guru.

Speaker 1  2:31  
Join us each episode as we translate nerdy wine tips into

Speaker 2  2:35  
savvy wine tricks, real talk with all the fruits and fluff because some women salt brine

Speaker 3  2:48  
thanks for having me. My name is Chris keel, Put a cork in it wine and spirits on Park Hill and University in Fort Worth. We opened in January of oh six so whoa,

Speaker 2  2:59  
wow. 20 years?

Speaker 3  3:02  
Oh no. It seems like it. No, yeah. We're a family owned. It's just me and my wife. We have one employee Kate has worked for us for a handful of years. So maybe she's the bubble specialist.

Unknown Speaker  3:17  
She's the finance specialist.

Speaker 3  3:20  
So I do all the work so that's usually tastes all the wine and but no, a definitely a California is a hotspot and in North Texas, but I've a dove into the Italian ones. Back in 2021. I mean, always love to tie in one and then I just dove in to the venom Vinitaly one Academy has a one ambassadorship that they you take a test, you study for months, and then take a test and I think it's about a 15 20% pass rate. Oh, wow. The master Psalm level of just the Italian one. So crazy. There's about 350 of us now in the world.

Speaker 2  4:04  
So he's one of 350 you talking about the elite? We have the elite right here in Fort Worth, y'all didn't know exactly. And

Speaker 1  4:12  
that's exactly why he's going to talk about the wines and we're just going to prod him along with magic questions.

Speaker 2  4:18  
But so I really wanted the big intros to Italian wine for me. Was Vermentino. And I think that Vermentino was easy for me because I love Sauvignon Blanc. Yeah. So I think that a lot of people like to compare something new to what they know. Yeah. And so I think, you know, with Italian varietals, it's not real hard to do that I found. I think our first variety that we're going to talk about is one that I could not remember on my W set to until I like, shut off my computer. I was like GAVI GAVI I was like it's already Cortez Hey, I was like, oh my god, what is it? So with Italian varietals, some of them are named based on the region. Yeah. But some of them do have a variety name correct. Feel

Speaker 3  5:12  
like Pinot Grigio is most aware in the Northeast or can grow in Tuscany, but you get up in the Piedmont, you're like your GAVI is Cortese are suave here, and those are regions. But yeah,

Speaker 1  5:26  
it gets a little confusing. So it's kind of part like French where it's more regionally specified and part like new world where it's varietally. Yeah, it's

Speaker 3  5:33  
Italian. There's no yeah, there's no regional towns name something and they don't.

Speaker 1  5:41  
For ws that too, I remember that as Gabby Cortez A is kind of like a beautiful French woman's name. So that's how I remembered it. So silly. So let's talk about it. Because I mean, I think you know, I think Cortes or let's just talk about the region of GAVI is a super fun way to start. We're starting up at North and we're going to move our way down down the boot of Italy down south. So Chris, I mean, tell us how you would describe to someone walking in and saying, Hey, what is this and why should I try it?

Speaker 3  6:11  
GAVI specifically the Cortese grape to me, is more kind of lime zest and more Zippy than Pinot Grigio. I mean, you can get some really good Pinot Grigio as we'll probably talk about that a minute but more minerality just that zippy, lime zest, good acidity, just a little bit more flavor than your your everyday Pinot Grigio.

Speaker 1  6:32  
Yeah. And when you talk about lines, that's, I mean, that always takes me to Australian Riesling. It doesn't have the petrol enotes. But it's got it's kind of in that same fresh and crisp style, right? Yes,

Speaker 3  6:43  
without the sugar like, most people think of Riesling. It's just that easy drinking. Smooth, just, um, you can get some awesome guppies with some texture that they do use some neutral oak and almost like burgundy. Yeah, no Chardonnay style, but most of them are that crisp, clean. Yeah,

Speaker 1  7:04  
yeah, I've had a couple that have gone through malolactic fermentation take a little bit of the edge off of that, you know, really high acidity, but they're still really crisp. They're still you mentioned dry, they're definitely very dry, but it gives them a little bit more of that apple and peachy kind of makes them a little bit if they're in that a little bit more. Right. But I think lime is probably the best. I definitely think you're gonna get a little bit of that zesty mineral, et cetera. But I love I love this and what would you pair it with? Anything glass? I think I mean,

Speaker 3  7:41  
I mean, you could do Forster's, your grilled fish or just curry. I mean, but it's meant to be just the simple. The entry level ones are just crisp, clean.

Unknown Speaker  7:51  
Just meant to drink.

Speaker 3  7:54  
Do whatever you think you can do with Pinot Grigio, you could definitely be making a comeback because kind of got saturated back in the 80s, early 90s. They were just gallon jugs of GAVI. Now they're trying to focus. A definitely kind of like Kiante did a couple of years ago with their, their whole focusing in one region specific instead of just bulk county

Unknown Speaker  8:21  
fish shape or basket.

Speaker 2  8:23  
So what is so I know this, I think, I'm gonna ask you. So there's GAVI and then there's Gabi to Gabi. What's the difference? Just

Speaker 3  8:36  
this specific a commune within Gobi Okay.

Speaker 1  8:40  
classico for for Kiante

Speaker 2  8:44  
so if you're looking for something a little more focused a little more

Speaker 3  8:48  
true to the to the parietal to the to Cortese definitely okay. Yeah, just a little bit more.

Speaker 1  8:56  
Yeah. So it perfect so sticking with Piedmont are there other grapes, other white wines that people should give a whirl?

Unknown Speaker  9:06  
Actually some really good reasonings from Piedmont

Unknown Speaker  9:09  
nice speaking her language

Speaker 3  9:13  
Marcelino makes a really good and so does I'm gonna second What about Gonio? Sorry, oh, yeah, they do a really good one. Sorry, back. So, uh, definitely RNAs from a river arrow across from other river from Barolo and Barbaresco known for our NACE and Nebbiolo.

Speaker 2  9:43  
So our nays I had for the first time at Ellerby. Really,

Speaker 1  9:47  
I'm sitting here as we're talking about it, I'm like, have I actually ever tried or nice and I mean, maybe I I

Speaker 2  9:55  
had it for the first time at Ellerby paired with Like, I think it was like a like it was a, it was like a summer salad. And then I never go there in the summer and I have fried okra with buttermilk dressing. I'm sorry, this is not an allergy advertisement. But we do love our we do love LRB. And so that was the first time I really got to venture out into this variety. So, you know, it's easy for me to go there and trust the Psalms and say, Bring me a bottle. Or if Richards there, you know, just bring me a bottle. And someone decided with our menu selections to bring me a bottle of our an ace. And I was, I mean, it was beautiful. And I had no idea what it was. You know, of course, I wasn't into, you know, blinding wine or trying to figure it out. I was just drinking. Yeah, but it was you know, but it was absolutely. Yeah, right, exactly. But it was absolutely beautiful. And this was years and years ago before I really even wanted to study wine. But that gave me a little Italian white wine bug. Right.

Speaker 1  11:06  
And it was, I mean, it's obviously obviously memorable if you still talking about it, right. So from a perspective, even if you were to compare Cortes and compare that to an RNase, Cortes and are nice, they were rhyming. What, how would you describe the difference? I mean, it's it is quite a bit of a different style.

Speaker 3  11:25  
Yes, it's tends to take on more tropical and it gets a little bit of target a sweetness, but more riper fruit sweetness. It's

Unknown Speaker  11:33  
not Yeah, it's still dry. Yeah, it's dry, but

Speaker 3  11:35  
you get more of it. And usually it's my go to when I'm when we're having sushi. There's a little bit of that from the fish and just the touch of that sweetness from the RNase. I

Speaker 1  11:47  
love that. So when you think about it, you're describing that I'm thinking about, you know, other wines that may have kind of that similar body, which you mentioned Vrba you know, is it it's not quite as is rich and creamy, but it's somewhere in between like a I don't know, again, I

Speaker 3  12:05  
wish I had to think to compare it to a normal grape.

Speaker 1  12:14  
Let's just say it's unique and stands on its own. Okay, it's

Speaker 2  12:17  
because it's not nearly as aromatic as VSBA not nearly as aromatic and it's not Yes, right. Okay.

Speaker 3  12:26  
It's more layers than a normal Pinot Grigio, right? It's just

Unknown Speaker  12:31  
It's somewhere in the middle it's

Speaker 3  12:32  
medium bodied to for white wine, it's got some weight but

Speaker 1  12:36  
yeah, some waxy you know, so what gives us a little bit more of a mouthfeel it's not

Speaker 3  12:44  
like waxy like semi right? Yeah, no, I know. It's just like most Italian wines are crisp clean with flavors of that region. So it takes on the kind of herbal notes to other other ones with a little bit of age you get that kind of sage basil telling you I'd have to

Unknown Speaker  13:06  
bottler definitely the walk out with Okay,

Speaker 1  13:09  
and so for our audience, we will put this in the notes but it's a r n e i s so it's definitely look for it on your local shelf or come seekers and grab a bottle. Cool. Well, we've talked so much about Pinot Grigio whether we you know, you take that as love it or leave it there are some amazing Pinot regios But moving over to for Uli Trentino. Alto adda J, there is a nother variety that is regionally typically, it's regionally suave. But what is a suave because there's two different ways to say it. I want to hear the right way from you before I say the wrong. No, no great Garganega Gargan, Sal on your Garganega or Garganega. And again, I don't, I'm not Italian. It

Unknown Speaker  14:01  
looks like Garganega

Speaker 3  14:05  
Swaby on one side of Legarda. And then lugana is another really fun region. It's got its own Derby, ona.

Speaker 1  14:14  
So I will tell you, when I was studying, mature EES, when we were doing our Debbie set to I went and picked, you know, like every varietals a bottle of every bridle, and I was so excited about the suave, but when I popped the cork, apparently I just probably picked it by price. And it was really, it was just dope, flabby and uninteresting. So fast forward a couple of years. And Jeremy got a suave epithet tear squirrel and was like, Hey, have you tried the suave and I'm like, Hey, I don't know last time didn't really kind of excite me. But since then, I think there's kind of this rebirth, of suave and I think there's a lot more focus on instead of the bulk on quality would tell us what your thoughts are on that. is definitely

Speaker 3  15:00  
similar to the GAVI we're talking about, like, just like art, grandparents or parents if you have older parents, and that's what they people like Shibley right, like, what can I get for the best value?

Speaker 1  15:17  
Yeah, Carlos Rossi Jong Oh, that was me. Oh,

Speaker 3  15:20  
but definitely they've been making swabbing for years and they were just sending what the market wants. So now we're getting like one of our top three selling white ones is

Speaker 1  15:31  
suave. Wow, that's so it's that's fantastic. Easy

Speaker 3  15:35  
to drink. You come in it's $17 a bottle it mean it's right there. We're south of where all the Pinot Grigio is from right. But it just closer to the lake and you take on more a better terroir. Yeah, it's

Speaker 1  15:51  
so describe it. Some?

Speaker 2  15:54  
Well, I, I've experienced suave to have a little salinity to it, typically, and then I think it's a little more interesting than Pinot Grigio. Not that it's more complex. I just think the flavor profile a lot of times is not as

Unknown Speaker  16:15  
single noted, single note,

Speaker 2  16:17  
that's a good it's not linear, you know, so I feel, I feel like it does have that it has a definite, you know, fragmented and, and, you know, bad palette, I feel like there, there is a simple complexity, I guess, to the wine, like, I feel like there are some notes, some layers to the notes in the wine, but not much. It's easy to drink, it goes with anything. And

Unknown Speaker  16:43  
people like to say swamp, and people like that.

Speaker 1  16:46  
Because Oh, hey, you go I could not really figure out Garganega I mean, other than men, we're gonna

Speaker 2  16:55  
we're gonna practice that you know, are good naked men are their swag and Nagant.

Speaker 1  17:04  
You guys did not know you were gonna get popularity lesson today. But yeah, I've been really super excited about what I'm seeing in that area. And like I said, I had to move away from my own my initial. This is really dull and boring. And I'm not going to go back and visit it.

Speaker 2  17:19  
Well, I think that's true with a lot of varietals, though I feel like for I feel like for most wine drinkers, we need to try wine. Yeah. At least two or three times. Like, I think that there's no reason that you should have your total opinion of a variety based on one bottle of wine, right? Because there's so many different styles, so many different ways that wines are different varietals are produced. It's all up to the winemaker. I mean, from you know, vineyard to bottle. There's so many different things that can be done to a single varietals in the same place that I think it's important that you kind of get out and figure out, Is it really the varietals that you don't like? Or was it died? That intention to that bottle?

Speaker 1  18:02  
Well, and I would throw that at Chris, because I think you know why I come down here and buy a lot of wine is because I trust that Chris, you know, he said, I taste a lot of wine. Well, in tasting a lot of wine, you've got to be you're curating your collection that represents your store your brand, your vision, for sure. So you know, if you have a suave on the shelf, I I'm pretty darn sure I'm gonna like it because you've probably tasted a few bad ones to find the one that you wanted to put and if

Unknown Speaker  18:31  
you don't like it probably means you don't like suave well

Speaker 3  18:35  
over 5000 ones in a year, so it's more of finding a classic, like you're saying that that one represents suave, or Vermentino from Tuscany or wherever it's classic. It's not going to be off the wall or a buttered on clothes out and like you said, you try to suave and bro you gotta or agave or whichever one got a cheaper one. And it could have been three years old, which right most classic Italian regions. The wines do age really well. So if you're a wine buyer, like for retail store or restaurant, you get some really good deals when those vintage new vintages come out they're trying to get rid of the older vintages because there's

Unknown Speaker  19:19  
nothing wrong with the wine. No, no.

Speaker 3  19:21  
We drink up suave, classic classical 2018 A couple of weeks ago really it was thing needed food took on so much texture. Okay. starts getting that really good almond paste that on? Yes. I love that. That's a tie and true a tie and the other great ones.

Speaker 2  19:45  
Oh, I love it. I love that. And so that's another thing that I feel like the layperson may or may not know that you're kind of keen on is when it's a deal. And when it's just cheap. So, you know, so I think I think that's super important when you're looking at those different price points. If you see, I had somebody send me a friend of mine sent me. He wasn't, he was in a store in a Kroger. He was in a Kroger in Burlington. And he started sending me these pictures of all these wine bottles these Cabernets that were half price and I'm like, buy everything they have. Well buy it all because first of all, it was cab, so it's not going bad. And number two, like they're just trying to make room on their shelves they're trying to get they are they have been told these needs to sell. So let's get rid of it. And it was all marked down. 50% after a 25% mark, mark off to begin with. I was like buy it off. So that's below retail. Yeah. Oh, wow. And it has age on it now.

Speaker 3  20:56  
All those wine groups there? Yeah. People rolling those grocery stores. Yeah, their mouths are set. They don't Yeah, yeah. Not they're gonna make money. They want to

Unknown Speaker  21:06  
put some they need to put something

Unknown Speaker  21:09  
a little tricks at the tray.

Unknown Speaker  21:12  
2018 Rosae for five bucks. Don't do

Speaker 2  21:15  
it. Unless you're trying to make frozen. If you're trying to make frozen It's okay. It's trust me. I've done it.

Speaker 1  21:22  
Welcome to wine wise, are you ready to transform your business engagements with the power of wine knowledge as the founder and wine educator at Wine wise, I'm dedicated to helping business professionals like yourself, create memorable client engagements where wine can be a powerful tool to forge stronger relationships and create memorable moments. We're also here to help build entertainment as a power skill for your team so they can confidently navigate wine lists and host impressive events. Are you ready to elevate your business skills through the world of wine, visit our website, W I N E dash Wi z.com Set up a discovery call today and learn how wine wise can help your team make memorable client engagements one step at a time. So So bottom line from you know, the ones we've we've talked about, you can put a few years on them and they will start getting those more honeyed and tropical not necessarily tropical, but that those honey globe

Speaker 2  22:21  
depth notes with probably depending on the producer.

Speaker 3  22:25  
Yeah, well, because I mean, we're not gonna do it to a $10 Pinot Grigio, right? Well, it's oxidized in terms of you know,

Speaker 1  22:35  
we were at, we did a conference event, kind of clear with a seller event talking about clearing sellers last week and one of the wines that was presented there was only one bottle was a 2015 Pinot Grigio and I was like, Oh, really curious to see how this tastes so shakeups and set up I took a sip and I'm like don't bother I'm like this is well past its prime. I can't even find flavor. I can't find fruit. I can't find acidity. So again, it's it's not 100% in who knows how that one was taken care of between 2015 and today but so not not all wines are meant to age it's a fine line, I would say.

Speaker 2  23:13  
Okay, so we are moving to a different variety. Let's

Speaker 1  23:17  
see Let's move around to the East Coast don't

Unknown Speaker  23:21  
ask me anything about geography that's for them

Speaker 1  23:23  
that's so we're we've moved to LA marchais and I absolutely love the length the pronunciation of the main region for this for Isles so no, you get it? Yeah. I just remembered in Jesus's Castle there's Verdicchio

Speaker 2  23:45  
see this is daily This is why she passed with distinction

Unknown Speaker  23:50  
as I my brain comes up with

Speaker 3  23:59  
cluttering your head with all these names and others Exactly. Well

Speaker 1  24:02  
this one I mean literally Verdicchio dei Castelli DNZ I mean, come on. Let's just go up call it Verdicchio move on.

Unknown Speaker  24:09  
That's what I'm gonna call Yeah, tell

Speaker 1  24:11  
us because because this one is actually a probably coming to one of my favorites of the Italian wines. Yeah, to me

Speaker 3  24:19  
closer to stylistic to Cortese to me it's got that zip Enos Minar, but definitely more minerality and kind of salty because it's really close to the sea, right there in the marquee. So you've just got fresh. We drink a bottle Saturday night, out at the lake, just sitting on the porch, watching waves and so yeah, just crisp, clean. good acidity. Just and it was one it was 2022 No. 2020 so add some of that. Not necessary nuttiness yet, but it wasn't turning but it was still Well in a really good spot, and it's there 20 twos and 20 threes that are on the market right now. So yeah, it definitely has some age to

Speaker 1  25:08  
it. It was. It was funny the other day because I was talking to someone who could not. We were talking about Italian why it's because I basically pulled that bottle of Pinot Grigio and said, Don't, don't anybody try this, we just need to move it off. And they said, You know, I love Italian white wines, but there's one that has more of an anise or licorice flavor, and I was like white wine with anise or licorice flavor. And then as I was, you know, was we were talking about what wines we wanted to cover today. I'm like, oh, Verdicchio and so I said does it for DQ? She's like, yes, yes, yes. But it's really more in that kind of herbal fennel in my in my opinion, then it's not in all of them either. It's I don't find it in every every Verdicchio I try.

Speaker 3  25:52  
Yeah, just more like fresh cut. Not like licorice. Yeah, not overpowering. You just get kind of that. Just that hint of it? Yeah, it's not like so

Speaker 1  26:01  
Amaro. Exactly. Or black licorice. So okay, cool. So now let's continue if you don't mind we're gonna go south a little bit further, but we're gonna go on back over to the Arabian Sea and to the Campania region, both Campania and I guess you know, Sicily, some of the varietals kind of crossover since they're just right across a little body of water. And Fiano Fiano my love for Fiano

Speaker 3  26:36  
Yeah, definitely the main grip and compania so you're talking south and Naples, volcanic influence specially in the, on the Fiano and Greco di tufo to there also also has in Fallon Gaina you can get, but it's mostly closer to the coast like Amalfi Coast and but up in the mountains there you get more Fiano and a Greco di tufo. So more texture and those can age for. I've had 10 to 20 year olds, and they're just still fresh and crisp. I mean, it's yeah. So that is definitely one of the regions or two groups that can, yeah, have age. And

Speaker 1  27:22  
so when you talk about that, I mean, that is it. We all we all know Pompeii, we all know the story of the volcano, I mean, that that area is when we talked about the soil, there's a tremendous amount of volcanic soil. So is that in your opinion, kind of what is driving some of these really great flavors, keeping the freshness and the acidity and you also get

Speaker 3  27:45  
that it's different than like Chablis, where you get that chalky from the limestone. It's just the texture. Just a different texture. And it's not like, at night you can on the red you really do. Yeah. This is layers down below. You've got topsole pair, right. So it influences the wine, but it's not like Aetna. So because it's so fresh, they're the top top layers. Yeah, so it's just

Speaker 2  28:13  
I like Fionna Fionna is one of its it's definitely a cheese line for me. Oh, see that. It's definitely a cheese wine for me. So like all I need is I need a couple of hard cheeses and maybe it's important to loot and I am a happy camper the bottle Fiano I don't need anything else. Maybe maybe some I mean any

Speaker 3  28:35  
kind of pasta with a little bit of that cream sauce does really well Fiona too. Yeah, I can say that zucchini yeah name of the reef rather zucchini and then put it in with like, God, Pepe. Oh

Speaker 3  28:53  
he made it when he was in company. Okay,

Speaker 1  28:57  
that sounds eerily but I'm hungry. I know if my zucchini would ever start to grow and produce fruit. Maybe I could try that. But yeah, we're not. We're not there yet. Um, cool. So real quick, Chris. I mean, we've gone from the, you know, kind of the foothills of the Alps up in Piedmont, where obviously it's going to be cooler. But you know, when you get down to compania, and you get down in the southern Italy, and then you're talking about Sicily, Sardinia, the islands. I mean, that's hot. So, I mean, the first thing I usually think of when it's like too hot is white wines are going to be really, really right, but really, really flabby. But none of the Italian whites are overly ripe or overly flabby. So what's going on that keeps them from being that

Speaker 3  29:42  
picking earlier where it's fresher? I mean, it's all I mean, they've been doing it for hundreds of years. And climate change too. So they're picking a little bit earlier and they're picking for freshness. Usually not picking for bricks. Those guys know what they want and and so yeah, But you've got those like words, said Fiano. Greco. And those go all the way over, even up into a POJO on the East Coast, like the hill of the boot. You see Fiano over there. And kinda you also have on northeast of Rome. Oh, yeah. Piano. Yeah, that does really well there. You got another region? Or we lepto. Yeah. Which is a great chat, though. So just freshness. That's what they're all going for. Because you I mean, Chardonnay is grown. You see it in Tuscany or open out the water, Jay, but it's usually not the big fatty. There are a couple in Tuscany that make that California Chardonnay style. But most of it is, is light and creamy, fresh, because I mean, they sit there. They start their meal with us. They drink one of the white lines when they cook when they will maybe move to red with dinner. But yeah, it's just

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