Soulful Chats with Psychologist Tricia Woods

In this month's instalment of 'Soulful Chats', I am joined by Psychologist and Spiritual Coach, Tricia Woods.

Join us as we explore Tricia's journey away from psychological practice and back again, how motherhood sparked the beginning of her spiritual journey and the process she used to develop and strengthen her intuition.

It's a conversation that is full of heart and soul and that you won't want to miss!

The book recommendation by Tricia is 'Belonging' by Toko-Pa Turner:

https://toko-pa.com/product/belonging-remembering-ourselves-home/

You can find the beautiful Tricia on Instagram @tricia_woods
https://www.instagram.com/tricia_woods/
 
and on TikTok under Tricia Woods : https://www.tiktok.com/discover/Tricia-Woods?lang=en

Be sure to SHARE this episode to anyone you feel may be interested or benefit from this content.

And please don't forget to hit SUBSCRIBE to keep up to date with our episodes and give us a RATING below. ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️

Intro and Outro music: Inspiring Morning by Playsound

You can also find me on Instagram @integrated_wisdom

Disclaimer: This podcast is intended for educational purposes only. It is not intended to be treated as psychological treatment or to replace the need for psychological treatment.

Transcript

Tatiana: 0:00

Welcome to the Integrated Wisdom Podcast. I am your host, Tatiana Da Silva. Join me as we discuss what it means to live an integrated life, explore ways for you to create a life filled with greater meaning, peace, and connection by integrating the wisdom of spirituality, psychology, neuro for science, epigenetics, and energy psychology. I hope to empower you to create deeper and more loving connections for to yourself and others whilst also paving the way for humanity at large to be reimagined and inspired to become the very best version of it. In 2024, I have decided to run. A separate series of soulful chats with other psychologists. And therapists. Who are spiritually inclined. And have already incorporated some spiritual concepts and practices into their life and work. This series will run once monthly. And I'm excited to share with you all the wisdom of my colleagues. Colleagues who are willing to share very openly and vulnerably the insights that they have gained from their spiritual journey. The challenges that they've experienced in reconciling. Their scientists, practitioners selves. And their spiritual selves. And the transformative gains that they've made by integrating these perspectives to empower themselves and their clients. I hope that you'll find it as illuminating and exciting as I do. As these conversations are part of the movement taking place. I lay the path. For the inevitable transformation that will overtake the mental health in the street. And the world at large. As more and more people begin to embrace and integrate their spiritual essences. I am so excited for you to share in this next installment of soulful chats. I have the beautiful, soulful Trisha woods joining me today. Tricia is a spiritually minded psychologist and coach. Who's passionate about supporting women to connect with their inner wisdom. So they can lead more heartfelt and meaningful lives. She's been on her own journey of tapping into and developing your intuition. And it has created a life, the support side of your happy. Uh, healthy and inspired. Trisha's on a mission that helps mothers to take the transformative energy of motherhood and use it as a catalyst to connect with their higher path. And creative gifts. I hope you enjoy. My chat with Tricia, as much as I did. So thank you so much, Trisha, for joining me today. I've been really excited to have this conversation with you. As you know, I've been following you along on Instagram. I love the content that you put out, the energy that you emanate with everything that you do, her, and I can't wait to get started talking about our mutual love of spirituality and the different ways in which you've how you've harnessed it in in your life and in what you do. So why don't you start by telling our listeners a little bit about yourself and your part of the world and what you're doing? Having Thanks, Tatiana. Thanks for having me, and I'm looking forward to our chat as well. I am a psychologist and a spiritual coach, and I live in Fremantle, Western Australia. I've just come back from living for 11 years in the beautiful southwest of WA, a little town called Dunsbury, which is right on the ocean. And our kids got to grow up in that beautiful environment. They're now both at uni, and we decided to make the move back to the city. I I'm a very passionate meditator, yogi, bushwalker, swimmer, um, now in my postmenopausal years in my early fifties having. And feeling really grateful that I did embrace my spirituality and my interest in natural healing At a pretty young age, which has made me feel like I'm in a pretty good space in my physical health as well as my having Emotional and mental health at this stage of life. Oh, how beautiful. And what about your spiritual side? Tell me a little bit more about that. Like, what's first sparked your interest Inspirituality. Yeah. Um, I think I've always been a really sensitive person, and I was a really emotionally sensitive child well, um, and always had a lot of, well, um, and always had a lot of compassion very naturally as a kid. I got to grow up having in a very natural environment with a national park right over the road from our house up in the hills in Perth and had a really strong connection to nature from a really young age. So I think it was actually my nature connection that was always really consistent and I always return to nature and bushwalking and being on the earth and craving that alone time as well because having I needed that to recharge. So my spirituality probably came out of wanting to be quiet and alone to to recover from some of these experiences that I would have with being perhaps super or highly sensitive having Um, to the world around me. I, um, I was always interested in yoga even as a teenager, always interested in natural therapies. Went to my first kinesiology session as an 18 year old. Got hold of Louise Hay's books, The power is within you, and you can heal your life in the late eighties. Um, went to a meditation course when I was 25. Having but it was really having my kids, my first child in particular, that took me on my more intense a spiritual quest. Wow. And that came out of a difficult birth which showed me that even though I was very Strong mentally and because I was sensitive, I'd learned how to control my environment quite well and be quite smart about how I designed my life to make myself feel comfortable. Even though I could be quite smart and control some things, I couldn't control how my baby was gonna be born. Having And it really threw me because it was a difficult, long labor ending in a cesarean section that I wasn't expecting. And it shook me up in a way that was necessary. It was a spiritual catalyst for me. It took me on a whole new journey into appreciating that what I understood mentally could not prepare me for some things that were gonna happen to me in life. Having you. And definitely couldn't prepare me for motherhood. Um, so I feel like it was when after my second child was born and I was finding the intensity of mothering quite a lot that I began meditating regularly when they were both having their afternoon sleeps when probably by the time my daughter was about 9 or 10 months, second child. And it was through that discipline of deciding I had to meditate for 30 minutes a day when they were asleep that my true spiritual growth began. That was in my mid thirties. Wow. Um, it was then that I went and studied kinesiology. I'd I'd sort of letting my registration as a psychologist go in those early years of motherhood, not feeling I could cope with motherhood and psychology as a job. And then I went and started kinesiology and did a year long program, started working as a kinesiologist, seeing clients just from home very part time, and that was when my intuition started developing. I started understanding that I was sensing and having And knowing information before I would use the muscle testing technique that we learn in kinesiology, I didn't have to do it as much. I was just knew beforehand. I was like, I already knew that. Um, I also learned things like homeopathy to treat treat my kids with homeopathy instead of Western medicine when they were young, which, you know, had its highs and its lows, but they lived through it. Having Um, I definitely had an emphasis in the natural therapies as a mother and that just, um, I guess it helped to build my confidence in trusting my gut feeling as a mom, as a individual for my own well-being, and then with my clients, just knowing that I kind of having new things. Yeah. How wonderful. And so you you you credit the meditation with opening up that or the kinesiology rather with opening up that channel for you. In, uh, in No. But I think the meditation was key. I think the meditation was key as well. I think that kinesiology gave me the, Um, the physical tool of muscle testing gave me an experience of knowing how the body communicates to us through itself, her through its own responses to something like a muscle test, um, which if people don't know much about muscle testing. It's what chiropractors use. If you ever go to a chiropractic appointment, they will get you to hold your arm up at different times and they'll push it down and they'll and they'll be able to test the effectiveness of the nerve communication coming from your spinal cord by different limb have tools being able to be activated or switched off. So it's a very technical thing that comes from practic and the person who developed kinesiology was a chiropractor. So he took he took her that muscle testing technique and applied it with Chinese medicine having And combine the 2, Chinese tradition listen, and that's what kinesiology essentially is. It's using the tools to check energy flow in the body meridians. Mhmm. And it it it takes it from kinesiology, so it takes it from chiropractic. So it was It was learning a technique that could directly communicate with the body in a physical way and then realizing that I had an inner sense or an inner knowing that was coming to me Simultaneously or sometimes before, I gave the physical test. I was and I was noticing it. This took me years. The embracing of my intuition took a good 3 or 4 years for me to Keep questioning it. Keep asking questions. Keep being skeptical about it. I didn't just jump straight into it with with no care. I think my training as a psychologist actually helped me with that because in in the West, we get trained as scientists as psychologists And we get we get trained to check things multiple times, and that's what I was doing. I was combining my intuition with a muscle test. So I would use my little finger and my thumb together and use that as a circuit and say that is the yes. And I would try and separate the 2. That is the yes, and then I'd say this is the no. And you're instructing the body to give you the no through the muscles, and that's the no. Yeah, It was quite a gentle, gradual process. I also had a spiritual mentor at the time who was a healer in my local area, and I used to go to her and she used to reflect back to me what my guides were telling her. So she would say, they're saying that you're on the right track. And I would say, oh my gosh. Really? Having I'm not feeling it. I'm, like, going I even went and studied building design at TAFE Me too. The middle of all of that, it's like, I just wanna go and do something totally different. I'm gonna become a drafts person and design buildings because I've got a passion for architecture. It wasn't like it was an easy journey of just embracing these abilities. It was a really hard 1 process and it probably wasn't until I hit about 40 or 41 and we have an astrological turning point at 41 which I won't go into. We have an we have an astrological turning point at 41 that we all experience around that age, which really set me on my path properly. Having interesting. Uh, I'd love to know more about that. But would you say that, like, have can you in hindsight identify any inklings that some of that intuitiveness was there, even predating some of these experiences? Because I I've had a I think yeah. Yeah. I think in my twenties, um, I had a couple of key moments where I'd made decisions, and I knew I knew at the moment, and I can still remember 1 thing in particular, I knew that the decision I'd made was the right 1 for me, and my inner voice was speaking to me. And this is probably about the age of 22. Um, I ended a relationship and I felt so liberated, so free, so right. Relationship, um, married that person. Having So but I can still remember that moment of going, yes. This is it. This is what you need to be doing. And I still overrode it at that age. And so it's it's totally normal to do that. It's having Totally part of the journey, particularly while we're still young to have those as yes moments, those inner moments of, Oh, this is my path. My inner voice is speaking to me really strongly. I know what I need to do and yet the ego self, The conditioned self that's come from childhood, the beliefs we have about what we deserve, what we're ready for, what we want to achieve that's been laid down mentally years earlier. They can override the intuition really easily. And for me, it was about getting married young, having children young, wanting to be a mother, that overrode my intuition. Mhmm. Because on my wedding day, I knew at having At 23, I got married. I knew that it wasn't right, and my body was telling me I had a really upset stomach. Every part of my fiber of my physical intuitive being was saying no. But this strong mind of mine, having It's really strong, and I know how strong it is. It got me through 2 university degrees. Depressing in the class. And the postgraduate a diploma. Um, it does not let go of it does not easily let go of what was previously decided. And I'm also a neurodivergent person, and they can be identified with the autistic traits. And there is often some very a lot of difficulty with the flexibility of mind, having Um, my spirituality has been even more important to me because I have quite an attachment to previously made decisions, and I find it hard to change my mind. So I'm getting much better at that now. That's all shifted since my forties, but I still see it pop up regularly because it's the way my new neurological cell functions. It's not having choose, something I have to respond to with kindness and softness having and, um, give it space so that it can understand that part of me can understand. Just because you've decided this is your path doesn't mean it's it's in in stone. You can actually having introduced flexibility after the fact, and I'm much better at that now. And that's where, I guess, for me, Tatiana, intuitive self has been the only way that I've been able to thrive because if I'd stay stuck in my head having And living from that limited capacity that we can survive in as humans from the mental rational logical self, how we can survive in that mode. Um, I doubt that I would have ended up being a very good parent, and I had to learn as I went along with my kids. I wasn't Exactly. Great. When they were first born, as we all do, we all evolve with with having children. But and I don't think that, um, the marriage that I ended up having my in in that I'm in now, that I've been in for almost 25 years. Uh, I don't think I would have been out of staying that if I hadn't had the ability and intuition and spiritual awareness because it would have been all too easy to call that quits at points in time as well because being in a long term relationship in our culture is really hard. It's a really, really hard thing to maintain. Um, so I think my intuitive wisdom has Saved me from having, um, more ironically, because people kind of think intuition is unstable. For me, it's the most stable thing that I have because I Like, are we meant to be together, and my intuition unfailingly says yes Yes. Even in the rocky times. And I'm like, okay. I I trust you. Having you. It's never been an unhealthy relationship. It's just had the, you know, the ups and downs that we all go through, and you have to go through growth having us together. You have to and you don't always grow in the same pace as each other. In your your individual spiritual journeys too. Right? Having Yeah. Totally. And his is not mine. Yeah. Exactly. I had to let go of mine him. I'm needing to be similar to him in our forties because we're the same age. Uh-huh. Um, I had to let go of needing to take him with me and everything. I had to, like, leave him to having it. I went to a particular workshop where I was doing some art, a beautiful, um, like a mandala for the year artwork with a beautiful artist, Um, based in Perth. He sadly passed away at a young age at the end of this year, uh, at the end of 20 23. And the message I kept getting, she combined meditation and dance and movement with art creation. And the message I kept giving getting was leave him Not leave him, but leave him alone. Let him to lead him to his arm process. Having So that was good. That was the perfect timing. I was probably in my mid forties by then, um, and I needed to just get in my own lane. Having you. And, um, and he's I mean, he's a he's a, um, he's a Pisces sun. I'm a Virgo sun. We're at the opposite sides of the Pisces Virgo axis. Pisces people often don't need to go through the same practical journey that a Virgo might because Virgos come into the world with a very big attachment to the real things, to practical things, to things being tangible and visible And, um, Pisces are already detached. They're already on a different pathway, so I've had to learn that. Having To love it all. Oh, that's wonderful. And you know what? Like, I I'm a firm believer, and I imagine you are too, having that. A lot of our spiritual journey is actually about relationships. Right? And it's in these interactions that we we we grow, we evolve. We we release the things that no longer serve us. So it's interesting to hear even in the contrast between the 2 a relationship. Absolutely. And, you know, we're we're in a stage of life now. We're in this semi empty nester stage where we only have 1 child living at home and she's 19. Um, it's a it's a dangerous stage for couples our culture to separate because it can seem like that role of parenting together is complete even though it's not. It can seem like the practical elements having a bit of it, and it can be really easy to have, um, lost 1 another along the way and not seeing what you still have in common. And so It's a really important time for for couples in their late 40s, early 50s, if they've had children in their early 30s or late 20s to nurture that relationship, um, very mindfully because it could be easy to, um, want to escape it at this a point and just do something totally different. Oh, how wonderful. And so in terms of your your own spiritual journey then. What would you say or what do you believe has been the biggest positive benefit to incorporating spirituality into your life on a personal level. Sounds like there's been many, but what would you say? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like making me more, having Bringing in a sense of being philosophical about the the troubling things that happen in the world And it happened to me. Um, I feel like it's allowed me to see Developed a con developed a concept being a bigger picture at play. So believing that this isn't all there is. So this existence in these human forms isn't all there is, and I've had direct experience through my through meditation and just Through inner awareness, inner knowing, through guided meditations led by other spiritual teachers, um, where I've been having shown other realities. I've been shown that we are from, um, our energetic makeup. Our spiritual makeup is from potentially different galaxies, different, um, realities, having these different dimensions even and that this is only 1 reality. That's been the main thing that I've really loved about it is is allowing me to see that This is an important reality that we have to put energy and attention into, and we need to stay grounded in these bodies and care for these bodies and respect the Earth, the planet connect to mother Earth energy. We have to be, um, dedicated to these lifetimes that we're in, But that we've also potentially had other lifetimes in human bodies. We've potentially had other existences in other galaxies, in other forms. Having I have a personal connection to the Pleiades constellation and feel very like, I just found Pleiades in the Skydarn new home, and I didn't think I was ever gonna be able to see it. But I saw it when I was visiting some friends having in the country last week, and it it connected me back into it visually. I'm like, oh, there it is. Okay. I see it now. And then the day we got home, I took the dog out for an evening wee. And I looked up and above our building, which is a 2 story home, I could see it in the sky, and I was like, there it is. I knew I knew it was in the north for us in this part of the world, and I could just make it out. We have a lot of light pollution because we're in a more today. I could just make it out. And now that I've reconnected with it, I feel like it's reconnected with me. Having Um, but I haven't had it in my life for about a year because I couldn't find it in the sky. Yes. So and it's quite a faint, cluster of stars unless you're in a a very low light area, and it's quite low to the horizon, which may makes it even harder to see in light light I don't wanna say light pollution but, um, because it's not a very nice thing to say, but, yeah, very well-lit skies, hide the Pleiades. Having Yeah and in Australian Aboriginal culture they're known as the 7 Sisters, um they have a really, um, important role in that culture, which means they're in the culture of this land that we live on. Having So, by the way, I'm on Whadjuk Noongar land. I haven't even mentioned that. Um, I used to be on Wadandinoongar land in the west of WA, and I'm still getting used to the Whadjuk, um, nation that that we're on now. And The Noong the Whadjuk group on the Noongar nation, the Noongar nation takes up basically the lower half of Western Australia, which is a really large area of land. So the peoples from that from that nation traveled really quite quite far and wide, um, and having met with 1 another, um, in different meeting places in the in the lower half of Western Australia, Which is if you look at a map of Australia, it's actually a really big part of the country. That's a good Um, so I wanted to pay my respects to the ancestors from that culture and and the people who currently, um, function as elders and have teachers in that culture on this land as well. So, yeah, I feel like it's connected me in my spirituality has connected me into the universe to the concept of past lives, to the concept of we go on beyond this particular lifetime into a different realm, auras. I don't see spirit beings in my through my eyes physically in the room. Um, I do have visions that present themselves to me within my inner awareness. And I do get shown past life, um, characters and and scenarios for my clients. So we do I do work on past life, um, healings and integrations through the work that I do with clients. And it happens spontaneously, me. So we don't generally order it up. We just I we're we're speaking and then suddenly, I'm like, oh, I feel like we're going to I feel like someone's presenting in my awareness for us to work with. And And if they are mostly are who come to me, um, and then we if if they're not, we can treat it as an archetypal energy. We don't have treated as a past life. We can say where there is an archetype of this person who's presenting with this, um, a particular job role or a particular station in in society, um, with these characteristics and this message to share, and we can just think of it as an a type of energy if we don't think of it as a past life existence. So I really enjoy that work, and I've had a couple of clients go back and find the person in history. That's really not. Really? Yeah. And they're you. They're not famous usually. They're not famous. Not like, oh, you were clear. Yeah. You get those stereotypes. Yeah. They're obscure, uh, but, yeah, I had a couple of people I think this was the person that we were talking about because there's there's information about them. Having you. So yeah. That's fun. Yeah. I mean, I'm I'd love for you to come back and actually for us to talk more openly, like, more deeply about some of those experiences with your clients. Um, and I I always say that there's so many misconceptions about the way spiritual information comes in. Right? Like, we can't just like you you said we can't just call it on demand. It presents itself to us when and if we need that information. Having, um, so that I think your example illustrates that so beautifully. But just to be clear, you're talking about your spiritual coaching work in in that. Right? Having Yeah. Um, and so I think that leads really nicely about the challenges that we experience as psychologists and the way that we're trained and the way that we're monitored in the work that we do. Um, I know we've had a conversation about this separately about some of the fears that we both shared about being a psychologist and embracing our spiritual side more openly. But I'd love to hear a little bit more. I'd love for you to share a little bit more with the listeners some of the fears that you yourself have experienced about reconciling, being a psychologist, and being a spiritually minded person. Um, what that's been like for you. Having Thanks, Tatiana. Yeah. Um, I've I've probably had a unique experience because I, you know, consciously left the profession when my children were young purely from a perspective of emotional mental capacity. Um, but I also, you know, even as a new graduate in my late twenties because I did psychology as a mature age student. I had a sense of there being something missing from psychology when I came out of university and I was seeing clients. I was working in a consulting business where we did a lot of rehabilitation, counselling, and case management. So it was a more business y setting than the average clinical private practice and and I I really had a sense of the the way that that we are trained to work as scientist practitioners where we must only use evidence based therapies, and We need to be very careful with our language, with what we convey to clients around our role with them. Um, we're having so trained to, I suppose, present a fairly professional, uh, almost a facade or a mask as psychologists, as allied health practitioners That didn't sit well with me either because I would prefer to show up as an equal with my clients. I don't want them to have me on a pedestal of any sort. Um, in the beginning, I I already found it a little bit jarring that I had to be in this role that felt separate from my clients. Having So all the 12 years that I had away from psychology was my time of developing my spirituality, working as a kinesiologist, then um, actually moving away from the kinesiology table and having clients sit back down with me in more of a counselling setting, calling myself an intuitive counsellor for many years, working outside the system where I I I could do whatever I wanted, with my own personal ethics and morals in place and my own sense of integrity in place, but But also not fearing, um, an authority coming in and telling me I couldn't do my work. So having come back to psychology in the last 3 and a half to 4 years, It's been an interesting process because I've just had to become very diligent with keeping my psychology work very different to the way that I work with my spiritual, um, counselling clients And knowing that, um, a lot of my psychology clients are actually attracted to me because they know something of the spiritual Tricia. Having Um, so there are spiritually minded people out there wanting a slightly different approach or a different feel to their psychology sessions But I do need, um, in order to comply with the regulations that we work under in Australia, I do need to use evidence based therapies. So In some ways, it's still restricting me, but in other ways, I do bring my whole self to my sessions as a psychologist with my clients. Having And I don't believe, um, that there's anything wrong with that. I feel like I can, um, be an authentic human. And there's a growing even among not so spiritually minded psychologists, there is a growing having awareness that we harm ourselves when we're not bringing authenticity to our work because it's a lot more draining. If you show up with a mask in place And you're acting as a professional psychologist, which is not easy. It's not something that sits well with you. Having Rather than turning up as a whole person, it's really taxing on them. It's very stressful. It it I I think a lot of people are recognizing it leads to burnout more more quickly because you are holding yourself back the whole day long from perhaps smiling, perhaps laughing, perhaps sharing something that you have calling me that person because it's relevant to their story. You're holding back your humanity in in in a in a way, and that is her tiring. Really, really tiring. So I think as you believe, Tatiana, and the mission that you're on with the work that you're doing, having We have to lean into a more human and authentic way of of having therapy, um, with with with people because the clients aren't getting as as real an experience or as compassionate and connected as an experience as they might. And the therapists are burning out from having to be so restrained and false. That's such a great point, um, because, I mean, the work itself is very draining, and I often talk about feeling like I'm working with 1 hand tied behind my back you not being able to bring all of this wisdom into into the therapy room. But it hadn't actually occurred to me about the the toll that it takes as well in the the lack of authenticity until you've just outlined it then. Kirsten, our our friend and colleague Kirsten Bouse talked about this a lot in her podcast. Um, and another beautiful woman assisting business women in their businesses is Hayley Quinn, having Doctor Haley Quinn, I should say, um, who also has a podcast and who is also helping women women business owners to, um, create more sustainable businesses. And then I cannot leave that having Rebecca Black who is also helping therapists Yeah. Uh, in Australia and beyond to have more sustainable businesses, and she would be on having the same page as as you and I in this moment if she were here. That's okay. And and so with that in mind, what value do you personally see for psychologists and therapists in general to embrace their spiritual selves and be more or even be more curious about spirituality for those that maybe are a little bit hesitant to open that door. But my they're a little curious, but a little hesitant for the reasons we're just describing. Yeah. I think that, um, I guess there's there's power in numbers. The more of us more of us that are willing to, uh, I mean, it's not everybody's cup of tea, but if people have Curiosity then. I think that it's beautiful for them to know that there are other like minded psychologists out there, um, like yourself and other women that I mentioned who are breaking the mould, um, who are prepared to show up with their own belief systems, um, just enough that they it's like a softening, I feel. I feel like it's a softening that can occur in how we relate to our clients. Um, it can it it it can open doors for you to access your own nourishment as well because if it wasn't for meditation and the practice of yoga, having, uh, and the belief that that time in nature is a spiritual, spiritually enriching therapy. Having Then I don't think I could do the work that I do. I feel like having spirituality is part of our, um, Philosophy of life and our practical existence. It supports us. It brings in support, and it it It sort of reminds me of what I said earlier about it brings in a more philosophical approach to life where we can bear the pain that we witnessed because if I didn't have a spiritual framework, if I didn't believe there was something beyond this physical human existence. I think I would find it really overwhelming to sit down day after day after day and and hear people's stories where there's been significant trauma, where there's been abuse in their background, where there's been a really bad string of bad luck over a number of years when you think hard, you know, why? Why is this happening to this person all the time and other people seem to have luckier lives? You know, I wouldn't have any wouldn't have any framework to put any of that into, um, but but my spiritual beliefs allow me to sort of to have contain all of that and go, well, it's all a mystery. Like, I don't know anything about it. I don't know why. All I know is that it's a mystery and that sometimes life is really hard. Yeah. And that We don't know what's beyond this and I and I believe it's better. But that together together we can make it easier for 1 another by caring for 1 another and showing compassion and kindness. Um, yeah, and I find it hearing that people are allowed to have religious beliefs, that they're allowed to have Christian belief or be a church goer and believe in Jesus or believe in Mary or believe in the saints, um, but they're not really allowed to have beliefs outside of that framework. So I find that tricky because That is no more believable than what I believe. You look at it in stark light of day. Having me. It's so true. And it's funny because, like, there is a growing body of evidence that has started to to illustrate having how having a belief in something else or having a faith. And I think the studies tend to favor the more traditional faiths, but they do take into account the fact that we're wired for believing in something outside of ourselves. Right? And that that gives us a great sense, a greater sense of happiness of being able to navigate life even in terms of health outcomes. There's a lot of positives that have been able to be shown scientifically even. And that's just scratching the surface. Right? They haven't even done more of a deeper dive into some of these other things that we're talking about. So, yeah, I agree with you. I think it's something that we can only benefit from. And so with 1 final reflection, and and you've alluded to so many. So I'd be curious to hear if you can pick 1. What's 1 what would be 1 transformative aspect how that you feel embracing, um, spirituality more fully would have for for somebody. Have or what what aspect would that be for you even? Yeah. I think the greater inner peace. Inner peace. Capacity to just to just be in there. So with my intuitive awareness Mhmm. I can function from that have Heart awareness at at will now, and the heart awareness has great peace sitting in it. Mhmm. So when I'm working with clients. When I'm sitting here talking to you, uh, I'm coming from my heart space. I'm not much as possible, I'm not coming from the head. Mhmm. And once you cultivate the awareness of what's there, having And that would be through meditation for me, through seated meditation and some yoga as well, but I think seated meditation is the the the 1 discipline that has led me into that solid connection to that inner peace. Mhmm. Having That that that's the thing that I can return to at will. I can do it in any situation. Obviously, very stressful situations, it's harder to do it. Uh, and we have our we have our mind responses to things that we need to be compassionate about. But, yeah, feel like it's an enduring sense that everything's actually okay, and I don't have to have strong reactions to things that are going on in the world side of me. I can come back into that sense of peace. And, yeah, and surrender a little bit more. Right? Like, not feel like you need to Yeah. Yeah. Acceptance, surrender, letting go, humility as well. I feel like the the journey that I took with both my early marriage and divorce and then having my first child and that being not what I expected. Living from her head and so we can get very, um, cocky. We can become very overconfident about, oh, I've got this life thing. I just, you know, control everything. Yeah. Just behave like a perfectionist and control everything, and it's all great. And then another good happens, and you go, ah, shit. I can't control that. Having Nope. So, yeah, humility was also which is a very spiritual, uh, a beautiful spiritual quality to have is humility and it's something that that, You know, in in all the stories and, um, of Jesus, um, he embodied the quality of humidity above many others. So, have Yeah. It's nice. Yeah. Oh, this has been such a wonderful conversation. Uh, I guess the only last thing I would love for you to share with our listeners is a recommendation, a personal recommendation for a spiritual book or resource that you would like to offer for anyone who's at the very beginning of their journey, um, and who may be curious about exploring this these concepts a little bit more. Cool. Yeah. I'd love to recommend a book called Belonging by a beautiful psychotherapist, um, dream analyst, Jungian dream analyst her named Toko Pa Turner. Her name is spelled t o k o dash p a, Toko-Pa, and her surname's Turner, and the book belonging and I've only discovered it recently. It came out quite a while ago, but for me, I've read a lot of self help books and spiritual books along the way. It's a beautiful combination of practical self help and spiritual awakening and, Yeah. It's got all the good elements of being useful and also enlightening. So that's that would be my pick at the moment. Uh, and it's a beautiful, humble, quiet life. She's not She's not on social she is on social media, but in a really quiet way. She gets a very natural, connected to nature, um, humble life, And I love her for that. That's the kind of life I aspire to. Beautiful. Thank you so much for that. I will add a link to the your notes to to the book and and her profile. Um, and your own is now if you wanna just tell listeners a little bit more about they can where they can find you and Hey. I'm in Instagram and recently in TikTok under Trisha Woods. My Instagram handle is trisha underscore woods having And I share astrology of the week and the month. I'm now sharing channeled messages for each month of the year. At the beginning of the month, my January share is coming out, um, shortly, uh, today. And I particularly love working with mums, um, with sort of preschool age kids into early primary called is the age group that I love working with and, um, love helping women to develop their intuition, leading more spiritually informed life and identify their passions, um, so that they can have more fulfillment. How fantastic. I will add, um, some links to your profiles on Instagram and TikTok as well for, um, any listeners who wanna take a look. There's some fabulous content. I I haven't looked at your TikTok yet. I don't have TikTok. I mean I knew. I've been avoiding TikTok for as long as I possibly can, her, but I do want you on Instagram. So I know that the content that you share is so beautiful and and very insightful and enlightening many ways. A lot of the time a lot of the things you posted have resonated with me so deeply, and it was exactly what I needed to hear in that moment. So I'll be adding that to the show notes as well. And so I just guess I just want to thank you so much for your time today, and I know that the I'm sure the the listeners will have found some great insights into some of the things that you shared from your experience. And, here. Any final thoughts that you'd like to share? No. It's been great. Thanks so much, Tatiana. I really enjoyed chatting with you. A wonderful thank you so much, and we'll talk to you all soon. Thank you for tuning in to this episode of integrated wisdom. It is my sincere wish that today's ends. New episodes are published every Wednesday, and I hope you'll continue to join us as we dive deeper into what it means to live an integrated life. So if it feels aligned to you, I invite you to hit subscribe and share it with others who you feel may benefit too. You may also find me on Instagram at integrated underscore wisdom. Remember, each moment is an opportunity to embrace your divine potential and create a world that is more frequently inspired. So for now, stay connected, stay inspired, and keep shining your light into the world.