Bullets 2 Bedpans
EP:9 Tough Plus Love: Maintaining your wellbeing with Firefighter Scott Hewlett
How does one maintain mental and physical health while working in high-stress environments?
Joining Dee Tox and Leslie today is Scott Hewlett, a veteran firefighter from Canada with 25 years of emergency experience. We navigate the challenging balance of toughness and empathy essential for an emergency responder and the importance of being able to perform when it counts.
Check out Scott's website at multiplecallspodcast.squarespace.com.
Nurses and Medics: This is your platform! We want to hear your stories of the good, the bad and the ugly. Send us an email at cominghomewell@gmail.com
Do you know a health worker that needs a laugh?
B2B N.F.L.T.G. Certificate click here
Get the ammo you need to seize your day at Soldier Girl Coffee Use Code CHW10 for a 10% off at checkout!
Special Thanks to
Artwork: Joe Weber @joeweber_tattoos
Intro/Outro/Disclaimer Credits:
Pam Barragan Host of 2200TAPS Podcast
"Racer" by Infraction https://bit.ly/41HlWTk
Music promoted by Inaudio: ...
How does one maintain mental and physical health while working in high-stress environments?
Joining Dee Tox and Leslie today is Scott Hewlett, a veteran firefighter from Canada with 25 years of emergency experience. We navigate the challenging balance of toughness and empathy essential for an emergency responder and the importance of being able to perform when it counts.
Check out Scott's website at multiplecallspodcast.squarespace.com.
Nurses and Medics: This is your platform! We want to hear your stories of the good, the bad and the ugly. Send us an email at cominghomewell@gmail.com
Do you know a health worker that needs a laugh?
B2B N.F.L.T.G. Certificate click here
Get the ammo you need to seize your day at Soldier Girl Coffee Use Code CHW10 for a 10% off at checkout!
Special Thanks to
Artwork: Joe Weber @joeweber_tattoos
Intro/Outro/Disclaimer Credits:
Pam Barragan Host of 2200TAPS Podcast
"Racer" by Infraction https://bit.ly/41HlWTk
Music promoted by Inaudio: ...
If you want to be the best version of an emergency responder or first responder, whatever that is, in whatever industry, I think you being able to master and figure out how to apply that ratio and recognize what that takes and what that's done for you and how it's affected you I think that's the key. It's not choosing one or the other.
Speaker 2:So first I'm going to start off with just what prompted you to get into firefighting in the first place. You kind of went into the medic world first, like you were going to do EMT and that first responder level.
Speaker 1:My goal was to get on the fire department. I really enjoyed the medical side of things too, so I really have always wanted to do both and I really think I know that during the time I worked as a medic and I worked kind of in the same area. So being a medic and a firefighter helped me see the whole side of helping people in that area of emergency response from multiple different angles. So when I'm a medic and I was helping people, I knew what the firefighters were doing. I knew what they wanted, what they needed to discuss for their work and vice versa. When I was a firefighter I was running med calls, I was almost acting like a third medic or fourth medic on scene because I knew what they were doing. So it kind of gave me this overall picture of helping people in that way. So I think it's made me better at both jobs and I've definitely carried that forward. I think it makes me a more well-rounded firefighter.
Speaker 3:Just so that we understand. So you guys don't run medics and firefighters. You're not in the same station.
Speaker 1:It's been tried. I don't know if again I've sort of gotten away from really looking into what places are doing it, but I think Winnipeg and Manitoba they tried it for a while, so I don't know if there are areas in Canada that do both. They run fire medics. It was talked about where I'm at. We have a regional paramedic service, so three different cities are amalgamated and that's the region paramedic service, but each city has its own fire department. There was talk about them coming under the same umbrella as the fire department, but there is obviously just politics around that they have a different movement than we do and you'd have to cut a lot of cheese from the top and who runs what? I think a lot of that killed it.
Speaker 1:We were trying to really push way back when, because there was about 20 of us, I think, at the time that were medics on the side, I worked at a technical rescue hall so it really made sense to me realizing oh my god, there's these high-angle or confined space for, I guess those two in particular where there's going to be times where the medics can't get into view with the patient and they're long calls. You may be in a trench and it takes us a couple hours to get you out. Well, that's all well and good if you do a great job of getting the person out, but if they die while they're dead, while you haven't done the patient care, then you've just. What's the point, even in car accidents. So there was a push from our side to like well, maybe we don't have fire medics, but maybe the people that we have in our department are also medics. Maybe that a protective rescue call is what would be like a tech rescue medic Right.
Speaker 1:Right, so you would be able to be in the hole with this patient and actually keep them viable and really help them while the other work was being done. So we kind of approach it from that angle and again, politics, I think, and everything got in the way and you need to miss the mask, so it never really came to fruition.
Speaker 2:But imagine that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so it might be done in other areas of the country, but I'm not quite aware of that. But I'm fully aware of the American model of yeah, that's standard.
Speaker 2:I mean, am I right, leslie saying that we have medics in the fire fire station? I mean paramedics are in with the fire.
Speaker 3:It just depends on the hospital system that's there in the area. Sometimes the medics run out of the under the umbrella of the hospital systems and then you know there are some stations that run medics. Again, it's probably just politics, probably follow the money to see who controls those.
Speaker 1:Or they're in the same station in your detail to the ambulance for a shift and then you detail to the Indian per shift and you detailed the patrol. So there's all different models out there that that people work with. Yeah.
Speaker 2:All right. So probably people are wondering, like what the hell are we talking about? Right now we have firefighters and this is bullets to bedpans, and why the hell are we here? So let me kind of catch up, because we're all just having a good conversation. Scott doesn't even know why he's here. I just showed up.
Speaker 2:So we have Scott Hewlett with us. He's a Canadian firefighter. Now I am going to say he's the other Canadian, because my family is from Quebec, that's like the real Canada, and then there's the rest of Canada. So so he's been a firefighter for 25 years. That's what we were talking about. Like how did he start in all the six years? He started off as a paramedic and then he decided full force, let's go firefighting.
Speaker 2:And what we're going to talk about today really is his journey, because he's also a podcaster. It's called Multiple Calls Podcast, been doing it for five years and explores the journey of firefighters through storytelling. And you know, our executive director, cindy, actually said hey, have you seen this before? I said, no, let me check it out. And I thought it was really cool. And so I reached out to Scott. I was like hey, do you want to do this? And he's like yeah, what are we talking about? And like that's a good question, but I think what we need to talk about is firefighters. I'm going to say I'm going to umbrella this firefighters are way more healthier than medical people in general. Y'all get your own calendar. I mean, come on, are you on a calendar? That's what Leslie and I want to know. Like are you? Are you Marge? Like what month are you? I?
Speaker 1:mean I may or may not have early in my career.
Speaker 2:We're going to have to do some research. They have archives.
Speaker 1:But they were it and they were all for charity, it was for fundraising.
Speaker 2:Were you holding a puppy dog.
Speaker 1:It was for the children.
Speaker 2:What do you quantify as a child?
Speaker 1:I mean raising money for them. Everybody's a child at heart Scott. There's no ego involved.
Speaker 2:It was all for fun raising I'm sure there was no ego Were you holding a puppy or a kitten.
Speaker 1:At no point did, no, at no point did I hold a puppy or kitten. But but let's say okay, let's decide our here. For the first time in my career after all these years, just a couple of ships ago, I legitimately saved a cat out of a tree. The bingo stamp. I have the picture.
Speaker 2:You are an official firefighter. Yeah, it took this long but it finally happened. You have the calendar and you saved the kit and you're official. We're good now. Now Leslie and I are going to go try to find the calendar. Wait, what month were you? Now? I want to know that. What month were you?
Speaker 1:Well, yeah, there was a few different ones, but different time and different time and place, different department, different culture. I think we should have another charity event. Okay, okay, okay, I digress, it was all good, it was all good fun and actually, on all honesty, it raised quite a bit of money for local charities. So it was a. It was a fun thing that also did some great business.
Speaker 2:I'm sure it raised a lot of money. I have no doubt that the people are were simple. They say men are simple, Women can be just as simple, or other guys. I mean other guys, whatever, but yes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I didn't quite answer your question. You were saying about that. You feel that firefighters in general here then in the medical so?
Speaker 2:I think so.
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, I wouldn't say it was necessary. That would necessarily be driven by the type of people that get into the job are healthier or more unhealthy. I think it's the setup in the culture, like just the how the job is done, and so I we talked earlier on about, you know fire medics and fire patients, so maybe they need, maybe their lifestyles are a bit closer to you know what the actual firefighters work culture is. But I just hope from my experience and now it's, it's even even more so now you spent a lot of time just in the ambulance, sitting upright, you know, and then driving around a lot of patient lifting a lot of weight, times of hospitals, a lot of just. If you weren't a type of person that would like prep food and, you know, have food with you. You're just grabbing what you can right.
Speaker 1:You know you, you as a firefighter depends on the department you work in, and sure it's regional, with medics too, but you know how much sleep you would get at night, overnight, if you get a chance, if you run off your feet. So I think a lot of things are stacked against paramedics. You know, and I would say, even more so with police, that the deck is kind of stacked against you to maintain a healthy lifestyle. And so even if you are doing, quote, unquote, all the right things, I think you know you could probably suffer more so in a number of areas with those two jobs versus the firefighting, just because of the setup of the work in and of itself, so I wouldn't say it's the type of people that get in a job are healthier or unhealthier, because we all have examples of different personalities in all careers.
Speaker 1:I think it's more of the style of work and the expectations.
Speaker 2:Well then go one step further and go into the hospital. You know where. You know I was a flight nurse and then I also worked in a hospital and it was vastly different. I mean we had our own gym. We, you know, we had a little more. I mean it was crazy hours still, but I mean we had a little more focus on the health and you go in the hospital. I mean Leslie, you worked in the hospital, I worked in the hospital. And geez, louise, I mean some days peeing is a luxury. I'm all like, okay, I can just hold it for 20 more seconds here. And food, you know, the running joke always is like every manager is just like you can't have food at the nurse's station, you can't have drinks at the nurse station. Like what do you want us to do? Right? So I agree, by design, we're not setting ourselves up for success.
Speaker 1:And what really highlighted that, I think, was COVID, right, I mean.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah.
Speaker 1:It was hard for everybody in the emergency services but really in medics and the hospitals. I mean, I go with what they're saying but it's that really showed the stark difference of work and the demand and how hard it is and the relentlessness of it. I think of the differences in the careers. So they're very similar and, like I was talking about before, there were similarities on calls where I was beneficial in a number of ways, knowing that both jobs operationally but definitely functionally as a career, we can see there's really big differences yeah.
Speaker 3:I think as a team though, Scott, when you're going on a call, you kind of hold each other, your brothers, to a little bit of a higher standard than I'd say that we do in the hospital settings as far as their physical expectation, because you're dependent on that person to be physically fit when the time comes and you need them in that situation, Whereas in the hospital setting that's not necessarily a focus.
Speaker 1:I would like to believe that overall, that is true in the majority. I don't think it's definitely not weird. Just the same. Differences in lifestyles and personal self-care are pretty much the same across most industries, and I think we're no different. I know from the outside. I think that's something I'd really like people to know too. Let me just say it this way when I first came on at 23, I had this, even though my dad was in it, and I had some sort of sense of what it was really like. I really didn't know what it was like. When I finally got on at 23 in the Kirtmas pullback, I had this idea that everyone's going to be this certain way Not exactly the same, but this certain way. There was going to be this common art.
Speaker 2:They all look like they should be on the calendar.
Speaker 1:I kind of got disillusioned and disenchanted, like the Kirtmas pullback and you just find out what the Kootha Wizard really is. Then I just chose to align myself with the people that I wanted to emulate and be like I've had my own journey and my own path along the way too. I'm not saying that I've been all in all the time. Throughout my entire career I've had my path. I feel like there's been this movement upward and progressing and improving and trying to do my best through my career. But as I got older, I just realized, well, this is just every industry. There's pilots that you would think pilots are like this and nurses are like this and you think doctors are like this and psychologists are like this. You really do understand. It's just people. It's people and they're the same in every industry. And you're going to have the way I've read about it and heard it said is that you have your A, b and C players. You have your A players. You never, ever have to push, you never have to try and inspire and motivate. They're the ones that are inspiring and motivating. They're pushing the envelope. They're the ones that are challenging administrations and training and trying to move the needle. Then you get your C players. That are basically their presence. They show up. They may be in uniform and they're around. They're not necessarily keen on being there.
Speaker 1:Then you get your B players, which is the majority of whatever your service is, even as an instructor. The way I was reading it was teach to the Bs. You should always teach to the Bs. Just focus on that. You'll never change the Cs. You don't have to motivate the A's, just teach to the Bs. That's the 85 or 90 more percent of your department. Is that You've got your small percentage of Cs and A's? I think that would probably be true. I would hazard a guess, across all industries, such as the way people are. Then obviously people can move from C to B to A. You're not just stuck here to see your whole career. That's not what I'm saying. If you had to take a snapshot today of an industry, you probably have those three categories. I don't know what you think of that, but that's been my experience.
Speaker 2:I don't disagree, I completely agree. Actually, I think one of the big compounding factor is when the stress happens. How do we cope with it? When you take A, b or C and you split that down and add stress to it and some of those A's, they're going to be coping with alcohol, they're going to be coping with drugs, they're going to be coping with sex, whatever Other A's are going to be coping with healthy eating, fitness, that kind of thing. Same with the Bs and same with the Cs. If I had to, it would be an interesting study to see how many, the percentage of each in each category. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:I would theoretically like to think Cs would have more people that are running to alcohol, but I don't know about that. There's a lot of silent copers out there, high functioning, that can hide it for a long time, oh no.
Speaker 1:When I talk with the A, Bs and Cs, I mean more of like engagement in the job.
Speaker 2:No, no, I understand that I was just making that like when stress comes on top of it, how do they all cope with that?
Speaker 1:Just because someone's an A and they're fully engaged in the job is mean they're not struggling and that they have great self-care. Then you add on the thing. You add on that saying that, I believe, is kind of true that 20% of the people do 80% of the work. High performers just get more work. They get stuff done. That's true in offices. Again, this is true across. We're talking about people. We're just talking about people.
Speaker 1:So you're right, there are people that are looking like they're doing great and they drive hard, but then in five years maybe they were an A player and then they slide. Or maybe a C player gets their act together in their personal work life and they gradually improve for a number of years so they could end up being an A player at the end of their career. It's not stuck Again, it's just that snapshot. I think it's a way to frame engagement in the job. It's a way to frame like, maybe where am I at right now in my career, reflecting on where their time is, where I was a C player, where the time is where I was a B player. What can I celebrate? Where their time is where I was an A player. Other times I can celebrate when I was a C player and I survived and I made it long enough to make it through my career Again. I think reflection and perspective is everything.
Speaker 2:When you're younger. I remember when I was a young nurse I worked on the step down cardiac unit and actually I wasn't even a nurse, I was in nursing school and I worked on this floor. I would go in and have to prep people for cardiac cast, so I would have to go shave and do the toxin and all that. Then, when they came back from surgery whether it was their cath or whether they had open heart or whatever they had I would have to go in and help do some of the education. As I was learning, I would go in with other nurses. Let me tell you, we had a very robust figured group of women mostly women that worked up there and I would be jaw dropped to watch them walk in there and tell them don't eat this, you need to get moving.
Speaker 1:You can see how they do All this stuff.
Speaker 2:Then they come out, grab their cigarette, grab their donut and go on a smoke break. I looked at that at 20 years old and I'm like how the hell can you do that? This still part of me that still thinks that. But now, a little couple of many decades older, I look at that now and I think, gosh, what kind of stress have they put under that they're not able to take care of themselves. That amount of stress on them that is causing them to eat their emotions, smoke their emotions who knows? Drink their emotions, whatever's going on. As we're older, we're wiser. I look at that same person and then my heart breaks versus what the hell's your problem? Which was my thought at 20, right?
Speaker 1:We know more than we ever have now, although it has lack of sleep effects and then hormone levels.
Speaker 2:Yeah, cortisol levels.
Speaker 1:All of that, how that affects weight gain. I think this is a great opportunity to frame this as, and this is how I've come now to frame the job that I do. This is where the tough plus love idea comes from, and I've heard it said a number of ways. The way I frame it is tough plus love. You can have this, well, suck it up. This is what the job calls for You're called, this is what the community expects of you. Catch jobs, not feelings. There's all these things out there.
Speaker 1:Then you could have the other side, which would be classified as a snowflake idea of, well, your emotions matter and you're not expected to have grits. It's on the other end of the spectrum I always tend to think of. Okay, very much in culture. There's always divisiveness and there's a spectrum of one end and the other. For me it's like I believe you can be both. I believe you can. Yeah, like you said, I can hold myself and understand the reality of what's expected of me and then do everything I am expected to live up to that. But it doesn't mean I can't also understand my emotions, understand how to process them, understand how to regulate my nervous system, speak to family and friends, speak to counselors, address myself as a whole human being.
Speaker 1:We are now, I think, with way more information than we ever were when I got on. I think it's probably different in the nursing. Now too, you'll see that people have it at their fingertips. But even though you have the information, do you have the time? Do you have the energy? Because of the sleep? What is the stress doing to you? Do you have the support? How long do you stay in the career?
Speaker 2:Do you have the support? Actually, this came up in the podcast that Lesnina talked about. The title of our podcast is Bullets to Bedpans. I was a military nurse for 21 years and the military is trying to figure that out right now, like how to go from grit to grace. Right, that was a tagline on you, leslie, that's her Instagram and so how to go from that tough.
Speaker 2:We're deployed, we are nothing, we're an asset. We have got to get a mission done and the only thing that matters is that we get that mission done. End of story. We'll deal with ourselves later, right, and when I say later, retirement and the military is learning, it doesn't work so well because we're burning them out, we're putting money into them, they're leaving early or they're worse and they're coming out with less quality of life. How do we do this better? And it's very hard. It's hard when we're like we have a mission, you sign on the bottom line, get your shit done, and then we're like oh, but if you're really struggling, you can go see mental health, but will you be ready in time to deploy? I mean, that's the energy. You know what I mean, right?
Speaker 1:And then the police pretty much deal with that as well because obviously they have a gun right. Right, you're like still in the military, but I mean the police are within our society and they have guns among the people. So the minute you say mental health, it's like okay, give us some time, right. So I'm just making an assumption from an outside perspective, but I believe that's probably pretty fair that people are reluctant to trust themselves because of that.
Speaker 1:And just because you are dealing with some things, it doesn't mean you can't do your job all the time. So when I talk with this spectrum, when I talk about this tough-class love, like the way I also sort of framed it as like the idea of like a connected warrior so yes, I'm a warrior, but yes, I'm connected to myself and other people and empathy, compassion, I think you can be both. So like I see it situationally. So if I go to a certain type of incident or call, this incident or call requires a ratio of top and a ratio of love. Maybe it's 80, 20, right, and then another one might require 80, 20 the other way, or maybe this one's 50, 50. There's things in my life and at work that require 100% grit right.
Speaker 1:It's just 100% grit, get it done. There's also those moments I've had in my career that require 100%, no vulnerability and emotion and empathy and connection. So what I'm saying is I think if you want to be the best version of an emergency responder or first responder, whatever that is and whatever industry, I think you being able to master and figure out how to apply that ratio and recognize what that takes and what that's done for you and how it's affected you, I think that's the key. It's not choosing one or the other, so both, both like it doesn't excuse you from having to like. You know, this job is blue collar, it is dirty and it is. You know, it's fucking hard.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:They call it firefighting, not fire easy.
Speaker 2:Not fire, loving Right.
Speaker 1:But but you are there for people and I've had, I've helped, I've also helped a large number of people by emotionally connecting with them on scenes, and especially people that are dying or have just died, and then we could also talk about the. You know, I've framed it before. As you know, it's an opportunity given to me to be there for people and care for them and love them, maybe in moments where their loved ones are not there to love them.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 1:So I need to be the type of person that if that person's loved ones can't be there for them, I need to be there in their seed to love that person and be with them, whether they survive or not, in the way that that person would love them. So that's how far I kind of take it, and that kind of stuff gives me chills, but that's what I would. I'm not saying I'm perfect at it, but that's what I'm trying to get to.
Speaker 3:And I think that you were able to put that into words perfectly that that's something that the general public doesn't understand. That we have to do. Number one we have to be very good at our jobs, very skilled, very trained, but, like you said, it oftentimes takes us out of that realm and we have to be emotional support for people and we have to love on people and that's not necessarily in our job description. So that's asking more of us emotionally. That I think the general public doesn't understand. That that's something that we do every day.
Speaker 1:That's a really great point. So I think I would pull it two things on. That is that we don't. I don't think we necessarily have to do it. I think when you're doing the technical parts of the job, the job appears to get done and people don't notice. If you are empathetic or emotional, right, maybe the person does, maybe a bystander, if anyone might. But I'm just saying in general, if the fire went out and the person got cut out of the car, no one's going to notice. If I was emotionally, you know, either overtly or internally there for that person. So I don't necessarily think you you have to do it. I think it's a it's a choice, right. And then again, just saying that we say that our goal would be to do it daily, but I don't necessarily have it in me every single day. So I have that desire to do it, but given what you were just saying earlier about stress and what's going on in your personal life, so if you're, you're not going to be doing it perfectly every day.
Speaker 1:but I think it's what you're looking for is to always have this guide, this guide post that you can look to. Okay, like this is what's going on in my life. I'm not I wasn't the best person on that call. I was maybe, you know, 50% good and then and then trying to recalibrate, to get back, to be able to be that person that can be emotionally there for somebody. So it's not like you get to a place and it's like I do both perfectly all the time now for the rest of my career. That's not what I'm saying. It's important to have these conversations so you have this frame of reference and perspective that you're always kind of recalibrating and trying to get back to that place again.
Speaker 2:You know what I think of. I think of Jiu Jitsu or martial arts general. My kids did it for a short time and and my cousin's husband does do Jiu Jitsu he's it's. It's really awesome to have him try it.
Speaker 2:And some of the best teachers I had ever seen that whole thing, tough plus love versus tough love, right, and that's what they were. They set really solid boundaries. They made them give their all when they're in their training. As soon as they either choke somebody out or arm bar them or whatever they did and they tapped out, they immediately had them shake hands. Everybody okay. And then we're back. If there was any discipline that needed to happen, which usually resulted in pushups or something, there was no screaming at them, it was like hey, give me 10. Like there, it was just such a positive environment for such a you know what you're doing, you're, you're kicking each other's ass, you know, and you're throwing each other on the ground and you're rolling and this and that and it. It's kind of like that. You know that whole tough plus love. I love that concept Like that.
Speaker 1:I think it's what you're speaking to. Is is a, and I just I've said this recently in a clip. I posted that it's a. It's a growth opportunity.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So those kinds of people that are in that community see what they're doing as a growth opportunity. It's an opportunity for them to grow as a person. It's an opportunity for them to grow as a mentor of other people. It's just always about learning and growing and accepting and understanding and, yeah, being able to to improve as a person and imperfectly.
Speaker 2:You said something, leslie, that kind of made me go back a little bit. Is that we're saying like it's not in our job description, right, like we're there to treat the patient to. You know, save the patient, right? Whether we're doing as a firefighter, paramedic, whether we're a nurse or T whoever it is, we have a specific skill set that we have to perform in order for that person to hopefully come out healthy and recover. Right? But I will contend that maybe it's not necessarily in our heart skill set. It would be who of us to work on it, like you were saying, scott, to always work on this tough plus love.
Speaker 2:Because unless you've seen it, somebody's freaking out. It's not the patient, but it's a family member and if we're just negating them, we're going to have a bigger problem on our hand. I mean, we have somebody that's like freaking out and nobody is addressing that. We could have a whole different situation going on and and it takes sometimes a lot less than what we realize Like, I understand you're scared, it is okay to be afraid, but I need to have my attention here. Boom, right, people get that stuff. When I've seen big problems happen is when we don't take those 10 seconds to say I see you, I hear you, I understand. I need to give my attention here. I will be back with you in a minute, go ahead.
Speaker 3:So in regards to that? So I actually asked a question on my social media and something that was brought up was that the, the, the biggest issue in healthcare. I'd asked it pertaining to healthcare, was that what we do to each other? So, in regards to that, we're doing that, saying that we should be fostering that type of relationship with our patients, with the, you know, the people that are on scene. How well are we doing that amongst each other?
Speaker 2:What Scott, let me ask I'm going to throw that at you, because what to me from the outside when I look at firefighters? And it's only usually when I nearly set a fire.
Speaker 1:So forgive me, but we're looking through your calendars.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so we're looking at our calendars. One of those two, I'm going to get one.
Speaker 1:I'm going to hang it right up there when I've understood very early on.
Speaker 2:Do not underestimate, leslie, sorry, go ahead, we got to address.
Speaker 2:We're digressing again. But what like? Yeah, when I see a firefighter, I see them, you know KUCOM Collective coming into the scene, you know handling what they need, and I personally think they're always very friendly because they have to be out in a community. You know they're kind of like the police, right, you know they got to be out there and they're engaging and stuff like that. What is it inside behind the curtain? What is it that Aussies see and like? What is it really like?
Speaker 1:Because nurses we already know that whole eat their own culture.
Speaker 2:What is it with firefighters?
Speaker 1:Yeah, this touches back to what I was saying earlier and, yeah, for sure we can expand that. I think the different types of people that you see in other industries you see in firefighting as well. So if you look around and you know, there's people in the job where I'm like why are you here? You don't even like people, you don't want to help people. Or there's people in the job for the money, for the benefits, for the schedule, like you name it. There's people in it for the wrong. There are people in it for the wrong reasons. That doesn't paint the brush as, like everybody is right.
Speaker 1:But I also can't paint you. I can't paint you to say that everybody is, you know, living up to this and pastical, you know, romantic movie ideal that you have of them as well. So if the curtains pull back it's like, well, you're just looking at people, right? That's just, in general, how people are. So one thing I've come to learn too over the years, and I've come up with the saying that it's another thing, this quote that sort of touches you know me in a deep way, is don't expect everyone to like you because you don't like everybody. So just because we're in this brotherhood, sisterhood, family of the fire service doesn't mean that everybody likes me and I like everybody and we get along Like you. Don't hang it with everybody in your neighborhood, you don't like everybody in your neighborhood.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Like we have different perspectives. We're not all friends, but we would hope again, I would hope that when we do go to with a job that we're all you know, none of us even think about any of that other stuff, and we do our job, and then that's where the tough-less love comes in of it, like the understanding and the love part of like. Well, I may not, you know, we may not want to hang out and have coffee, but I'm not going to think twice if I have to help you on a call or if you're in a bad spot. But the tough part of it would be not everybody is meant for the job and if you don't care about it and you're not, you know, trying to be the best you can, that not only affects you personally, but it affects me as your coworker and it affects the people that are going to help.
Speaker 1:So there is this matter of fact thing that even if there are people that you do like as a person, like I may think you're a great human being, but you're not fit for the job, Like that's okay. Like I'm not meant to be a, I'm not meant to be a surgeon, I'm not meant to be a police officer. I'm not good at you know, I'm not meant to be. Whatever job you want to be, there's a lot of stuff I'm I'm either crappy at right.
Speaker 1:Or I don't have the intellectual capacity to do. That doesn't mean I'm a bad person. It doesn't mean that I should just automatically get the job that I just choose to get because I want it and I want whatever it comes with it. There is that hard fact of like this job requires ABC and D. It's not debatable, and if you're not going to live up to that, then you know, then we're going to. We should be able to question that. I don't think we're able to necessarily question that as much as we probably were in the past but, that's a whole other rabbit hole.
Speaker 1:Anyways, I hope that paints a picture of like this as as human as the people are in your you know your areas, it's exactly the same with us.
Speaker 2:I get that concept. I taught the most when I was a flight nurse, like we had to and we were fixed wing so and we were in Europe and buying all over the place. And there are people there that I'm sure didn't care for me and and I didn't necessarily care for them, personality wise, we didn't resonate probably the easier way to say it but when shit was hitting the fan and we all had to go do a mission, we all came together. There was no argument. I mean, then we debrief afterwards if there was an issue or whatnot, and then we go up and do our own thing again. We could come together as the one thing I could say in that unit. I didn't necessarily resonate with everybody, and I'm sure likewise, but when it was all going down, we were all jumping on board together, there was no question, and we trusted each other to get the job done.
Speaker 1:So yeah, and there's. There's a level of performance that's required, and I think we also need to overlay that. There's another quote that sticks with me is that you know, I'm I'm made up of, I make it some I'm made up of flaws stitched together with good intentions.
Speaker 3:I'm.
Speaker 1:I'm I'm fully made up of laws.
Speaker 3:That's a good one.
Speaker 1:So I think, as long as we have now, okay, let's add to that you can be flawed and have good intentions but not be able to perform. So I should be, except on the love end of things, that I'm flawed and stitched together with good intentions, but good intentions also don't get the job done, so you should also be able to perform. So, again, I would hope that everybody would be able to come together and like just make the the incident go perfectly. But if you do have people that are, you know they're flawed, they're human, just like us, and we're not perfect. We're doing it imperfectly, but as best we can. But we are able to perform and reflect on our mistakes and try and get better. But I think there are, like I said, I think there are people that just aren't able to perform under stress. Maybe they can perform in training that they can't perform under stress. So I could. That's, that's real talk.
Speaker 2:I think it's what you're driving at is like what's the reality as opposed to?
Speaker 1:just making a blanket statement of those you know how people are within certain industries.
Speaker 3:And I think to speak that I think there's a lot of people who get into these lines of work and then just mentally aren't able to process the situations that they are in. And when I do my trauma work I tell people maybe the job is still going to be there and if, unfortunately, if we're not able to maintain our wellness and do the job, perhaps we should find another job. And that's kind of that tough, tough plus love, I guess that we can say, because a lot of people want to blame the job for their lack of mental wellness. And your mental wellness needs to be your number one priority.
Speaker 1:That's a good point yeah, you need to have a long term. I want to say you want to, you need to have a long term perspective on the career. But I think another thing I've come to realize recently is that perhaps I only have this because fire fighting and maybe police, maybe it would be seen as these are few careers where you think about it as a career. It's 30 years.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 1:A lot of other jobs out. There is like you do something for five years and I think for five years and they're 10 years, you're kind of bouncing around even CEOs and chiefs, like they're kind of like they're moving around right.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:There's a very few jobs where we now think you get into it and you do it and you retire and you get your plaque and you and you ride off to the sunset. So I think I've come to realize that maybe it's okay for you to okay A realize that when you try to get into the job and you get the job, that's not for you.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 1:I think you should be an adult enough to realize that and then leave the job and find something else. But now you're in the job, now you got the benefits, now you got the schedule, now you got the person. You don't want to let it go Right. So that's not good, or B? You know you are able to perform and you are meant to do the job. But maybe you have five years in you, Maybe you've got 10 years in you, Maybe you've got 15, maybe you've got 30, but it's okay if you reach a limit at 15 and it's not seen as a failure. Now the job itself, the support's around that. If we want to, just, you know, put this theoretical thing for conversation's sake in, like this perfect world, If we're all giving what we need, we're all giving ourselves and we're giving what we need for this. You know, thought experiment. Maybe you still only have five, 10, 15, 20 years in you. That's what you have to give. And then maybe you would be best for you and everyone else if you were doing another job.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 1:Obviously the job itself and the lack of support and all these things could shorten that time period for even someone that was meant to do 30 years, and we don't all make it through.
Speaker 2:That's true.
Speaker 1:And that, like, open up that conversation of like it's okay to only have 15 years in you and try to find something else for you and everyone else. I'm saying it's not seen as a failure and I don't think less of you as a person if you can't do the 30. That's what I'm trying to say.
Speaker 2:It's an important concept because that's one thing I've said in the past the military, where I notice the people that hold the tightest to that military culture, like after they gather military, the people that don't finish their careers. So you know, I just went to like a veteran breakfast and I'm sitting there talking with people and these people are wearing the hat, they've got the pins and it's great, I am fine with all of it, right, I am usually incognito. Most people kind of raise an eyebrow and I said I was a 21 year retired nurse. They're just like really it's all good. So what I noticed out of that, there's a large portion of them that did four years, that did six years, eight years. They didn't finish the career and they have, they still have.
Speaker 2:I don't know and I'm not speaking for anybody, I don't know if it's a fear, I'm not fear. But if it's fear of failure or their shame, their guilt, I didn't finish Like kind of what you were getting at. And one guy, it was a Navy guy and he said I was in for four years, I deployed three times. It was during Vietnam and he goes I deployed three times and they were sent going to send me out for a fourth and I couldn't do it. Well, shindu, you just had a whole military career in four freaking years. That's what happened. This is where okay, a couple of things.
Speaker 1:This is where I see people very often want to say how long have you been on, how long have you been doing the job? And I get it. It's a conversation piece, maybe, perhaps it frames something. But I've heard some great instructors say and it's something with me, and I've had to reflect on it myself too that years on the job does not mean anything. It doesn't mean that it okay, it means something. But what they're trying to frame it as and trying to put you in this hierarchy of like, oh, you've been on 25, but I've been on five. Where have you been on five?
Speaker 1:Right, exactly what have you done in five years? What have you done in 25? If you've done the first year 30 times and your first year was crap, how is that compared to someone that works in a different city and they run jobs. They run like three fires, you know a shift for 30 years, like that's vastly different. So what have I done in my career? How has that affected me? And I think, if you've, we should be grateful to people and still be proud of them and hold them up if they've been in whatever job they're in and they've done it to the best of their ability, and I think they should be able to be proud of that. The other thing that I think of when you're talking about this, too, is that a great thing that the emergency services and military and all that do is, if you know and you want to have real talk, so let's have real talk is that if you have no self-esteem and no identity, they'll give you one. They'll tell you who you are and all of a sudden, if you've never had self-esteem.
Speaker 1:And all of a sudden, this is the thing you've never had much self-esteem or self-identity. And you get the job. You put the uniform and everyone's like, oh my God, thanks for your service, and you're so amazing. Boom, your ego goes off like an airbag. Well, I must be great. Everyone's telling me I'm great.
Speaker 2:Yes, right.
Speaker 1:And you've done. You've been here for a cup of coffee and you've done nothing. And you all might think you're great because you're wearing a uniform. So, I want to have the real talk of like, let's tear it all down to reality.
Speaker 2:That's why we have stolen Valor. People, I mean they want that look, you know.
Speaker 1:You need to have self-awareness, self-perspective, self-perspective, understand why you're in it, reflect right, question that, challenge it, flip it around and just always be checking in with yourself as you're growing Like am I in this for the right reasons? Who do I think I am when I don't have the uniform on? What am I when I leave this job? What am I? I think that will keep you honest. But if you're some people lock on to like every time I walk at the door I've got something fire related on my head or my body. I want people to know when I'm going to get a coffee, that I'm a firefighter, so that they see me a certain way.
Speaker 3:It's on paper and vehicle, everyone, everybody.
Speaker 1:So I mean, I have a fire sticker on, I have one on the front, one on the back.
Speaker 2:I was just going to ask, yeah.
Speaker 1:And I'll speak to you because I'm saying this. So I've got one on the front and on the back and I it's. For me it's almost like that community thing, like when I'm, when I'm driving around and I see another vehicle again, it doesn't mean that I'm I'm a hundred percent going to like align with that person, but it's like, oh, I know they're part of my community.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 1:Right, or they stop at an accident and they pull up and I'm already at the accident and I'm off duty. I know that at least there's a possibility that they're a firefighter and I know what. I kind of have an idea what they're about.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 1:I think I I have those two stickers on my vehicle. I do, I will wear a hat or represent. You know, I wear a shirt. It's like I'll never put it on. I don't want people to know what I do. And there's that whole thing about how do you know you're talking to a firefighter at a party and it's like, well, they told you 12 times.
Speaker 1:Right, right I don't want to mistake pride in yourself and in the job and pride in trying to represent this, this calling, properly with trying to pump up your ego. Those are two different things.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And I think as long as you have that in your mind, your perspective, and you're aware of that, then you're probably doing what you're doing for the right reasons, versus not thinking you've learned it at all. And and you're probably doing it for the wrong reasons. You're probably wearing the shirt for the wrong reasons, to probably bring it up for the wrong reason, and you can play with that right, and you can play with it, like you said, going incognito, and I don't drive in to work with my uniform on anymore.
Speaker 1:And even though I have the sticker on my car, I don't drive in uniform and I drive home in my civilian clothes too, because it's almost like you know, now you're at work and now you're not. But the other thread we can pull on with that is I honestly feel like this job, this lets me be who I am and I get paid for it. Like I feel like I had it in me to before I was a firefighter and now, when I'm off duty and when I leave the job, if I come across something, I'm going to stop and I'm going to help. Like if I got fired tomorrow, it doesn't stop me being who I am. That's what I'm trying to drive out here.
Speaker 1:Like I really, in my heart of hearts, feel like this job is not an identity that I've taken, that other people have earned, and I've just taken it and now I'm just going to use it. I feel at this point I realize that it is in my core. It doesn't mean I'm perfect, but you get what I'm saying. Like the calling is within my core. So I don't mind representing that identity because it's who.
Speaker 3:I am. It's a camaraderie and I say this, I do public speaking and I always say that there's a camaraderie within these groups that, again, the general public doesn't understand because we are in situations together that we may never speak of again. But to your point, you form these friendships and just you share something with these individuals that people working normal desk jobs just don't understand, they don't understand. So it is. It's like you can walk up to anyone that works in a hospital setting, that works in fire service, and you automatically have a camaraderie with them that you know. That is just, it's not understandable to people outside of those fields of work. So I totally agree.
Speaker 1:It's kind of like an icebreaker conversation starter. It's that nod, it's like what's the motorcycle wave as you drive them by. It's like this week, community and tribe. You know Sebastian Unger, I believe it is the wrote book truck wrote, sorry, he wrote book. Tribe speaks to that tribe. Community importance, yeah, but I believe if I was a police officer I would align with people in the as a police officer. If I were, and when I worked as a medic I made the same kind of friendships as I made with people I have in the fire service. So it's not a fire fighter thing, it's not a cop thing, it's not a medic things to people.
Speaker 2:Let me ask this Let me turn it a little bit is so we in in the military we're getting better with mental health care. Military medical, we're trying to be better, and I say try because it's not overly successful. And when I say military mental health, I'm talking specific, like medical people getting mental health care Right, and Leslie and I have talked about this in the past. That in the civilian world is it's not, it's sort of encouraged, but it's not highly encouraged. So I'm wondering in the firefighter world, because everybody's trying to work towards normalizing it and I'll say it's better than it used to be, but there's still a ways to go. So in the firefighter community, how are they doing that? Is it more normalized? Is it you?
Speaker 1:know it's funny, because the the first thought I thought of when you were speaking of this is that the bigger the mountain get, bigger the mountain gets, the more cracks there are to fall through. That's a good one.
Speaker 1:I hadn't really framed it that way before. Yeah, I'll use that at some point again. That, I think, is as departments and conglomerates or corporations. The military is like the biggest of the big. When you really pan out, there's a lot of cracks of people to fall through. So it gets harder and harder for jobs, industries, you know, businesses, the military to give everybody what they need.
Speaker 1:I also think that we can't always pin it on the job. That you, we have to realize as human beings. You come into the job at 23 or 30 or 40, you bring a lot. There's no one comes in as a blank slate. If I have mental health issues, if I have self-care issues or I've got all that, I'm showing up day at one with all of that. I'm not a blank slate. I was perfect and if I hadn't got this job, you know, I never would have been damaged.
Speaker 1:What I'm saying is that I think you come in with the stuff you come in with and then the job can exacerbate that and the job definitely can just drive you into the ground. That's 100% true. I think it's funny because you know, in Canada the this what is it? What's a program is called road to mental readiness. It's now called the working mind. I believe that actually started with the military and then it was brought to the police service and adapted for them and then it was brought to the fire service. Mine department, specifically, has had a peer support team since 1994. So I think we're like we're really ahead of the game of like pushing.
Speaker 2:What does that look like? When you say peer support, I'm just curious what that setup looks like.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean it's, it's. It's changed as over the years as education and training and awareness and all that have, but always with the intent of it's. It's non divisional. So it's not like, well, it's only for suppression. It's not for fire prevention. It's non.
Speaker 1:It's not like, it's only for union and not for administration, Like the peer support team was was a mixture of all of these different people just helping people within the job, you know, to you know, with the education and awareness and whatever support they could offer, and maybe directing them to more robust services if they needed, if it was out of their wheelhouse. So it's just about people with, like we talked about community, trying to help each other. I think we're better at it than we've ever been. I mean, there's more information with them than there ever has been. I think people are more and more people are working out and being healthy, more people are eating better, people are speaking about it and I think we need to take more and more ownership of, of our own wellness. And that's not because, well, I don't think we can have this attitude. Well, the job should do it for me.
Speaker 1:Right, the job should give me the job should give me everything I need, and if they don't, my, my, my life problems are their fault.
Speaker 2:The job should have resources that they can get to. I mean, that's the, that's the one thing, like the military itself when, as I was leaving well, it's, this has been around for a while, but they're getting more into it the, the Air Force specifically, was embedding for years they've embedded like therapists in with the special forces, and then they started going, well, can we do more of that? And I'm like, yeah, how about embedding them in the damn hospitals, like where are those therapists that are for the doctors and the nurses and all that that we can just kind of sneak off to and go like, hey, you got 10 minutes, kind of thing, where's that stuff? Right, and so I I don't know if you guys do any of that up in Canada or.
Speaker 1:There may be departments that do do that and then have psychologists paid like as an employee of the department there are, you know, third party. We call them employee employee assistance, employee family assistance plans.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 1:It's a third party that's contracted for a number of years provide the services for the member and also for the family members, so not just for the member themselves.
Speaker 2:If you get them in immediately, right, and you get that, so you have a bad fire. Shit went downhill. Maybe there was a child involved, whatever it was right. You know, the next day, the day after, three days later, whatever it is, if the therapist comes in like, hey, I heard there was a bad day, or the boss says, hey, that was a bad event, you need to at least go process it with the therapist, take 30 minutes, whatever it is, don't you think that there would start being better outcomes, like we would be able to last longer? Maybe the five year career would go 10 years.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so, yeah, I just like let the I can now fully form, I think, the thought and just make sure that I'm what I started to say about.
Speaker 1:Well, you know you can't point the finger at the, your employer. So we've had to go through a number of hard times over the past number of years of losing members for various reasons, and I do find it it pulls all the walls down and we all and we're all in it together experiencing these tragedies of losing people that we love and are worked with and respected, and it makes us take a look at ourselves and take a look at each other. What I've had to come to realize as a peer support team member for a number of years, you know, and still doing the work for people. Now it's because you don't have a title and just when you're not doing the work that I just kind of seen my life and everyone else's life as like a puzzle, right, so your employer is one piece of that puzzle. So how I had to come to this is like I'm sitting at the funeral and very often I think we would all feel the responsibility of the loss of that person like it was all our fault.
Speaker 1:If we could have done all these things, they would not have. This would not have happened. What I'm trying to, what I'm saying here, is that there's another, a bunch of different puzzle pieces touching that or holding that person together. There's their family, there's their social, outside of work community, there's themselves to hold themselves together. There's all these pieces. So what I needed to do to have peace of mind in these tragedies is realize are we as an employer, as like, is the employer as an employer, doing everything that is actually possible for that person? Are we as a community of firefighters or police or medics? Are we actually doing everything that we can? But there's a limit to that. There's a limit to what you can do, but are you doing it? But are you doing it?
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 1:So if you're not doing it, then you better fucking own it and learn how to do that stuff If the employer is not doing it and there are a lot of employers that have like disrespected or discarded their employees and have need to own that shit.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:But, but I'm saying like to sit there as a thing as a firefighter out of funeral and carry the full weight of like this. This death is my responsibility. I think that's fine. That's not real Right.
Speaker 1:It's not fair and I think we could, like we can, spiral ourselves. So I would need to be able to be to know when I'm sitting there, that I as a person, and then us as a group, and then us as a department and as a service, did everything we could and everything was available and we still lost somebody. So at least I can just mourn the loss and the tragedy and the sadness without wearing the shame and guilt because I didn't do what I could have done. I hope that makes, I hope that clears that up.
Speaker 2:No, it does, Because I think the bottom lines are accountability on both ends of it. I think that's what you detailed out is that we have an accountability as leadership, as you know peer support, you know administration, to make sure all these resources are available and attainable, and we're encouraging and normalizing that. This is a good thing to do. Step one right and and showing no like oh yeah, you should go kind of making a face thing right, it really needs to be held sacred and honored. But the other part of it is, if you, you can only bring the horse to water.
Speaker 1:Even at your deepest, darkest, most horrible moments, there is some part that you hold accountability and responsibility for yourself.
Speaker 1:Yes and then maybe that's a very small portion of that more, and then everyone else around you can help you expand that. And then, when you're at your, when you're at your utmost best, you know that's when you own the maximum amount of your own accountability and responsibility and that's when you should also then be trying to then help other people with when you're in that particular place. So I'm just saying that that accountability never goes away. It may change in ratio, but you always also have that personal responsibility and ownership. Look at yourself going what can I still do in this moment, even though I feel like I have nothing, what? What can I do? I still have some ownership here.
Speaker 1:So I think I think it's about personal ownership and I think it's about empowering, like and the goal of peer support and all these, all this personal work, not just personal work, so the peer support and supports outside of the person. The job is to slowly build them back up so they're empowered to take control of their life again. Scalability, within, within, within reason, within reason, and then. But if the person themselves is doing all these detrimental things to themselves, no amount of resources from the employer are going to help. So I just want to look at it holistically like what's reality right? And then who can we point fingers at and where does the responsibility lie? And I know they're like I said. I know there were cases where employers and industries probably they probably still are not giving their people what they need and they and they should own that and I really feel deeply for those people. But I think in an ideal world we would see where are, where are the percentages of responsibility lie and we would be trying to maximize those.
Speaker 2:So I want to. So I'm looking at the time here and and we could talk all day about this and I will- so you just have to kind of put it off.
Speaker 2:I know I'm bad too, leslie's bad too. We're all like, oh yeah, it's right up in our wheelhouse because scalability is a big thing to me. Like I had a service member tell me one time he says, ma'am, sometimes he goes. You know the saying that him and I had was you know there's peaks and troughs and you're going to land in the trough. Sometimes you just can't unpack your bags there. And he would say at the worst he said, sometimes he goes.
Speaker 2:If you can imagine I would, I could be curled up in a ball and he's like, and there could be 50 hands around me reaching out and I can't even raise a pinky and I'm like, and then at that point we all put our hands in to get you upright and we hold you till you can put a foot down. And it's exactly what you said, that I think that's where leadership doesn't necessarily always understand, that right, that I'm sure they're, they're learning and whatnot. But our peers don't necessarily understand that until they get in the middle of that is that there is a scalability, that you can raise the pinky, you can put a hand down to push yourself up. In the meantime, those resources have to be there to support and your goal always is to get a little better. It's like mental rehab, right. It's like slowly getting better and better, so that that is a huge huge, and it's not just one person's job.
Speaker 3:No like you know, what you know, scott said there's going to be days when your strongest person can't lift that pinky. So you know. So we have to watch everyone. We have to be a team and you know it is the responsibility of you know, the employer to have resources, but then as a team, we need to be watching out for each other.
Speaker 1:I mean this with the, with the deepest empathy and understanding and compassion of like understanding what it feels like at my core. Is that that feeling that you can't move and that it's that is not going to end and it will always be that way? I understand that. Yeah, yeah, Just yeah. So I just like I think this. Lastly, I would just say that it's really hard to go and see a therapist when you can't get up to brush your teeth. That's really hard to do. You can, somehow you can get there, so hopefully yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, that's what I want to segue into and we're going to go over the hour, but the conversation is too good and I really don't want to miss it. So I know that your podcast is wildly successful. I've listened to it really good. If you all get a chance, listen to the multiple calls podcast, and it's pretty much on any platform that you listen to podcast on what got you there? Because this is what I want to know. None of this stuff starts because there's a good idea, fairy going hey, you know I'm going to start both subbed pans. Well, no, I mean, I had a lot of experience and I realized that we attack this like we're giving out CEUs to people and I'm like, fuck that, we've got to do it in a way that people understand. So what led to you starting multiple podcasts?
Speaker 1:Yeah. So, like you said, I think a lot of things come together. So I started listening to a number of podcasts and I really love you know how articulate they were and how well produced they were and how much I was learning and where I moved to school. Friends from you know way, way back. They live in the same area and one of them has a studio in his basement, so the universe was kind of like saying hey, by the way, you know all this is.
Speaker 1:Nudge nudge. Maybe you should give this a try. I'll start with friends and people that I know and make sure I ask questions and approach it with you, know, as a genuine, authentic person and not from my ego and try to tell their story. So yeah, we do about two episodes a month on average. I'm grateful for the people that listen. I'm grateful for the team that puts this together. We're really proud of it and I appreciate your kind words.
Speaker 2:It's a good podcast and why I like your approach is that there's room for everybody at the table right and everybody's going to resonate. Two different things at different times. And I like your approach because, again back to the tough plus love, you're talking about firefighter world, you're talking about post traumatic growth, post traumatic stress. You're and you're and you're talking about vulnerability and you're showing that through the podcast. And that is a big deal for a guy. So you put us in these high adrenaline. You know fields and we go, go, go, go for 10, 20, 30 years and then we come out the backside of it and we're just like, damn, what happened? Where did that all go?
Speaker 2:So, I think, like you know my whole intention, I really thought. I really thought that this podcast was going to be like oh yeah, firefighters do better because, like they're eating salad more often, they're lifting weights in there and we're over here with a donut and a coffee and the cigarettes and the hospital we're sucking it. You know, and you know right in the first like 20 minutes, I'm like shit, he just mystified the whole thing. We're all humans and we're all doing the best we can and really on levels, we're similar. You know, some people are rocking it out at times and some people are just sucking it at times and in between all that, all of us need to help each other be the best we can be Right.
Speaker 1:And this is just to Jeff, quickly, you know, and him and his wife, jessica and their team. You know the documentary coming out called the Dark Knight of our Soul. That's about post post-traumatic growth. They're doing their part of an endeavor called Citizen Green. So it does focus on military veterans and the use of cannabis as medicinal, helping them heal and manage. So definitely check that out Special forces experience. So just to shout out to all the amazing work there's a lot of great people that do it. They're doing great work and I think that's what I'm trying to do is kind of highlight this great work that's out there. Marie Bodine is another one with the cold therapy and cold exposure. You know she's working with cold culture tubs and then, you know, we've got New Breath. There's a number of you know, cold immersion companies out there doing great work and realizing how impactful that is. So yeah, I'm just I'm doing my best to highlight these great people and these great teams doing great work and, like you said, providing resources, options, perspective.
Speaker 2:Are all your guests. Do you keep them in Canada or do you cross borders or no, no, they've been all across.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they've been all across, north actually, ricky Nuttles from the UK, so I have just the one that comes to mind. I have. I'll talk to anybody from anywhere, really.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and this is what's great, right Like we've never met, and we can just like how amazing of a time this is, that we never would have been connected before. So our community just continues to grow and we can just call each other and say, hey, let's sit down and have a talk. And you know, my day is better now because of having done this with both of you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, just for the audience, just so you guys know, like this, you know there is some level of preparation, but I'm going to tell you straight up my level. I keep it minimal for reasons, right. I don't want to hear the story, I don't want to check out anywhere. I have a squirrel brain, so if I already like know what's going to be said, then my little brain's like grocery list or something stupid, and so I don't. I'm showing you. You guys can't see this. That's my notes, right there. It's on a little like three by five card. That's my notes and I know that if I haven't heard it, I'm going to listen close and it's all just going to happen and I can talk to anybody.
Speaker 1:I love it Like that's a great dynamic to have both of those approaches. Oh, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2:All right. So, leslie, what do you got? Do you have anything here? We'll wind it down.
Speaker 3:No, just thank you so much, scott, for sharing with us your information, and I think that that's just how we we do this as a team is we just share the resources that we have. We're all in it together, so thank you so much for joining us today.
Speaker 1:You're lovely people and I'm really glad we got connected.
Speaker 2:Awesome, Any last thoughts. Scott quotes You're a quote guy. I like it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, I mean they could check out the Instagram page if they want. Right, that would be a great way. If anybody wants to reach me, that would be a great way to connect with me on there. Quite a bit on there regularly and I share a lot of content, so it's not just like me and what I think should be out there. I love sharing other people's content and great work, so just please check that out. The podcast has a website multiple calls dot squarespacecom. They can check that out. There's resources page with everything hyperlinked. Yeah, just go and investigate. I wrote a couple lists with some help, like if you're rules to the senior firefighter and the 25 rules for the fire service instructor, and I also do a program called the connected I mentioned it before, but the connected warrior. So it's really about.
Speaker 1:It's really about talking about what we've been talking about, that yin gang, tough plus love, like that's where that all sort of came, but so I I'll do webinars now and then about what's called the connected warriors. So if you're interested in that, I can always do it. You know, from anywhere we can just do it over zoom, just like that. So if anybody's interested, they can please hit me up. I love, I love talking shop. I love connecting with people. I love feedback good and bad. I can take professional criticism, but they're taking it personally. So yeah, please are please reach out and connect in any ways you see fit.
Speaker 2:All right, All right, everybody. I think this was an awesome conversation. I think that we just keep making awareness and and we put a little sass in it because you know what's life without a little bit of laughter? We all get a laugh a little. So from everybody over here and all you guys, we hope you had a great day. The rest of the week is awesome for you. If you can like and share and get this out to everybody, we totally appreciate it. Have a great, great week, Peace out.