Ep. 9 - From 'Under the Sea' to Riding the Wave: A ParrotHead with 'Boats to Build'

This week, we explore the ebbs and flows of life with our guest, Ben Roorda, a husband, father, engineer, entrepreneur, and saltwater addict. How being brought up in a conservative evangelical home limited his exposure to music outside the church. How watching 'Under the Sea' from The Little Mermaid ignited his saltwater addiction and the realization that he could leave the life he knew, like Ariel did, 'Brown Eyed Girl' reminds him of his wife, and 'Three Little Birds' by Bob Marley serves as a life preserver during difficult times. We ride the waves of Ben's thrilling entrepreneurial and surfing adventures, with Jimmy Buffett and Alan Jackson’s ‘Boats to Build’ and Dick Dale’s iconic ‘Misirlou’. Ben's story is a testament to the power of pursuing one's passions. You don’t want to miss this one! Pull up a folding chair, grab a drink, find a spot around the fire, and enjoy the conversation and community.  

Follow your hosts David, Raza, and Carolina every week as they embark on an epic adventure to find the songs that are stuck to us like audible tattoos to tell the story of who we are and where we’ve been. It’s a life story told through 6 songs.

WHO WE ARE

DAVID: Creator & Host @ALifeinSixSongs
Drummer | Educator | Philosopher | Combat Veteran | PTSD Advocate 

CAROLINA: Co-Host @ALifeinSixSongs
Storyteller | Head of Learning & Development Services @ReadySet

RAZA: Co-Host @ALifeinSixSongs
Guitarist | Lawyer | Solo Project @Solamente.Band

RESOURCES & LINKS

Check out A Life in Six Songs playlist on Apple Music and Spotify
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Subscribe to our YouTube channel 

Are you a veteran who is struggling?  Get help here:

• Call the Veterans Crisis Line: Dial 988, then press 1.
• Text the Veterans Crisis Line: Send your message to 838255 
• Visit the Veterans Crisis Line website to chat virtually
• PTSD Online Questionnaire
• National Center for PTSD

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

When I put it on because I need it, not that I want to hear it it's like I'm literally in a place where, like I'm so beat down, like Right do I have left but a song, yeah, you know, yeah feel like the waves are on me and there's no air, right?

Speaker 2: 0:23

right like a life preserver or something.

Speaker 1: 0:25

Yeah, that's the grass. Right, that Bob Marley song is the grass To get to the surface.

Speaker 2: 1:00

You. Hey, everybody, welcome to another episode of a life in six songs. I am your host, david Reese, and I'm joined by my co-host, carolina and Raza.

Speaker 3: 1:19

Hey, hey.

Speaker 2: 1:20

Hey there, for any of you that are new to the podcast and this is the first one you're checking out Each week, we embark on an epic adventure to find the songs that are stuck to us like audible tattoos, that tell the story of who we are and where we've been, in order to help us figure out where we're going. It's a life story told through six songs, so let's go have a listen together.

Speaker 4: 1:46

All right. So our guest today is Ben Rorda he. Ben is a father, a husband and engineer, and an entrepreneur with an unshakable saltwater addiction. As an aerospace engineer, he participated in the development of gas turbine engines. As an entrepreneur, he's launched both a solar energy company and a rapid manufacturing venture. Currently, ben leads an AI based data analysis company as the VP of data science and engineering. Nevertheless, he's in. His enduring love remains his family and the ocean. So, ben welcome.

Speaker 1: 2:23

Thank you, raza. I appreciate that. That's, yeah, that that I Identify with everything you said there.

Speaker 2: 2:32

That's who you are. You've been busy I yeah.

Speaker 1: 2:37

Yeah, it's a busy life, but you know, I think Most people have that yeah thank you for that kind introduction.

Speaker 4: 2:46

Yeah, so I'm gonna turn it over to David to kick things off for us.

Speaker 2: 2:49

Yeah, welcome Ben. I'm so glad to have you on and be be chatting before we dive into your six songs, Just to get us going and and fill out a little bit more of you know Raza gave you know what you do for work and jobs and some of that. Now we'll get into some of just you know the the music side of things and so, just to start, you know what you know. How do you view music in your life? How does it fit into your life? How does it function in your life?

Speaker 1: 3:18

All right, that's a great question, david. Yeah, no, it's. It's really interesting how ubiquitous music is in our in our culture, in our lives, in our society. It just seems to always be there.

Speaker 1: 3:30

You know, you hop in the car in the car and I hit the radio or you know whatever the button and just music pops out. Or like I go home and just making dinner and turn on some music, right, and music is just, it's always there, which, crazy enough, probably a hundred years ago and forever beyond that, was unheard of, right. So music, I think, is this interesting thing that as humans, in this day and age, we have this ubiquity of sound and music around us that Most folks haven't had in society, in civilization. But for me in particular I'd sounds cliche because I've heard so many people say it, but it's the soundtrack of my life, right, it's just those interstitial moments that exists where you're driving, or you're making dinner, like I said, or or you know working, you know I'm playing music all the time when I'm working, you know, and being so saturated music around us, music to me is kind of a quest, it's kind of a journey.

Speaker 1: 4:42

I Latch onto a genre, listen to it, about five years Burnout like I was searching for another genre. So for me in particular, it's this lifelong Exploration of interesting musical concepts. So, yeah, it's, it's. I mean, I'm not a musician, you know. So I'm not huge into music, but I do like it and I enjoy it and I appreciate. So, yeah, yeah, I'm trying to the background song track, soundtrack of my life.

Speaker 1: 5:23

Yeah, no thank you for that.

Speaker 4: 5:25

Maybe that.

Speaker 2: 5:26

I like the the first part of it. You said in that I think we might take some of that and use it for the podcast itself, because I think you did a great description. I'm sort of like how music is just kind of all around us now in a way that Maybe hasn't been that way through throughout history. Right, you had to go see people perform. That was the only way to do it. Right, I couldn't pull out some thing in my hand and pull up whatever song I want, and so that's. That's interesting. Yeah, I like that. I'm gonna pass it to Carolina. Who's gonna kick us off and get into your six?

Speaker 3: 6:00

Yeah, Thanks, ben, for coming on. I love your, your description of music that, like, follows you throughout a journey, throughout your life, and so we like to kick off at, like, the beginning of that journey, and and so, for your first song, I'll ask you know what's your earliest music memory.

Speaker 1: 6:20

Yeah, so for me, where I grew up, when growing up, my family was very religious, very evangelical Christian. So my first earliest music, always in the church, it was acapella singing at church. I grew up very conservative evangelical group of Christians, mm-hmm. They stuck very literally to what the New Testament says about how the church should be run, and so there's no pianos mentioned in the New Testament or Organs or anything like this. So it was all just acapella singing out of a book that's Over a hundred years old. The latest provision of him book was over a hundred years ago. So these songs were definitely not something you could hear on the radio or even Christian radio or anything like that. So, yeah, so my first Memories of music and for the first decade plus of my life, this church singing, which was Slow and very like systematic, and it never changed, yeah, so let's take a quick listen to a sample.

Speaker 1: 8:12

This let's be right back in church.

Speaker 3: 8:23

Yeah, how does it feel listening to it now again?

Speaker 1: 8:30

so it put me on a little bit of a journey, trying to find this thought or this music, because it's not common, not out there, you know there's no Spotify channel for it or anything like that and but listening to it it definitely puts me right back. The child in that uncomfortable metal seat, you know, for hours, almost one day, yeah, no, it was just that was growing up. That's what we had, that's what it was. No, we didn't have a TV, we didn't listen to the radio.

Speaker 3: 9:12

We this was it.

Speaker 1: 9:18

Anity.

Speaker 2: 9:20

That's so Interesting. When you mentioned about, it was acapella. You know, when we talked and you were sharing the songs, you mentioned acapella and I was like, okay, I didn't know it was because of, well, there's no pianos and stuff, so if it's not stated we're not gonna use it. And I I've I haven't heard of that before. I've heard of lots of other things that people don't use, don't do, don't, you know, whatever it might be based on their religious, you know beliefs, but that's that's. That's really interesting.

Speaker 1: 9:54

Yeah, growing up we thought the southern Baptists were wild and crazy. Right, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3: 10:02

No, I agree, super interesting for me too. I grew up Catholic and so pretty much the standard was just like an organ, like that was it. But I found that more acapella kind of think, like more Gregorian monk chant kind of thing, felt more for like special occasions or you know, something like really really serious. So to hear From the evangelical perspective that like no, this was, that was the standard of music for you know, every day just Worship, super cool and interesting.

Speaker 1: 10:35

I did not know that.

Speaker 3: 10:36

That's for my particular upbringing religious sure sure, sure, sure, sure, sure, sure, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4: 10:44

No drama, I did not call Christian. No drama. Yeah, definitely no drums I. So I did not grow up. You know Christian, I think you know Ben, and pretty much anyone who's watched to show at this point knows you know I grew up in in Pakistan, which is which is Technically an Islamic Republic, but but I mean, you know there are.

Speaker 4: 11:06

There are churches and and and Hindu temples and Sikh temples and, despite, you know, contrary to maybe popular belief, my know, you know they're minority religions, but they're still there, but anyway. But I've always found especially Catholic imagery and and and hymns and and and sort of the musical references To, to scripture and things like that. I've always thought it was like it was beautiful. It was the, the voices. I mean, you know people, people call them angelic voices and things like that and I really kind of gravitated toward that and and even listening to this right now I was, I was curious because I've heard acapella, like modern versions of acapella, then I've heard you know choirs and things like that, and this was really it was really cool to listen to.

Speaker 4: 11:54

You could, you could hear distinct voices. There was like a bassier Voice, there was more sort of I guess childlike, and I heard, I guess, female voices as well. And so, yeah, no, it is, and it's really cool to hear the explanation why it's acapella thing, like what Dave pointed out. Right, like there's there's no references to musical instruments, so people to to to to show their their, I guess, appreciation, they're using their voices as instruments and I mean there's, I think there's, there's a lot of, there's a lot of beauty in that. So, yeah, it's really cool to hear.

Speaker 1: 12:31

Yeah, absolutely, but growing up is that's the only music I had I did on the school bus and kids would be singing like pop songs, right, and I'm like Got no reference. I'm sorry, I'm just gonna hide over here in the corner and hopefully don't ask me to sing along, but it was a very interesting way to grow up. Hmm, and.

Speaker 1: 12:53

I will say like Good, oh, isn't it were you in the choir or anything like that, or there's no choir, it's just everybody in the entire congregation singing along simultaneously and to the point that was previously raised, like, you can literally hear everybody's voice, right, because you know the lady that's like Trying to show a little bit, and then you can also hear the like, the guy that's, you know, just barely keeping up and and and you know. I was good and watermelons watermelons I Don't know the word a little flat there, yeah.

Speaker 1: 13:38

Everybody in charge singing, you know, and and it's not at a upbeat pace either, right like it is. I grew up in a retirement area, palm Beach County, so there were probably County Florida.

Speaker 3: 13:51

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1: 13:51

So full of retirees our church was almost dominant retired People. So a little bit you know. You know they're not the spunky 20, 30 year olds, but you know they're enjoying their days. And so the pace of the music was, I would say, what was played here was an up Rendition.

Speaker 2: 14:16

This was the.

Speaker 2: 14:20

Yeah, yeah oh, wow you know from from a musical standpoint and also the sort of Piety standpoint, right, it's like we're like oh, there's no piano, there's no choir, choir, there's no, it's just you all in the I don't know if you called it a congregation or not but you all in the church singing it, and we're sort of like, oh, wow, you got to deal with people that have no pitch and everything Like that, and it's sort of like that's not the the point. Right, the point is not to Create a great musical rendition that'll go to the top of Spotify charts. Right, it, the singing of it is the piety, right it is the Worship, right, right, lifting your voice to the Lord.

Speaker 1: 15:04

Yeah it was the whole point, yeah, and I will say like I definitely didn't appreciate this at the time but hindsight being 20, 20 there is, like it definitely fell to that equivalence of like Gregorian chant where it almost became like this the meditative oh expression, right, but like the pace was very low and it was kind of lower registers and so you could have the men and the women singing the same song. And it was interesting, like when I go back and I go to church with my parents, it's, you know, it's interesting to like re-experience music from your childhood again after you've listened to so much others, like I can have a little bit more appreciation now how, how it functions in a, in a group and in a situation.

Speaker 1: 16:02

So it was an interesting start to the life of music, for sure.

Speaker 3: 16:10

Yeah, You've had a long journey, just like you know, based on your intro, you've done a lot of things, which means you've, you know, kind of moved away from from in Palm Beach area, like your life has has grown and you've done a lot of transitions and probably picked up some new perspectives, and so that that cues up our next song, which is what's a song that that really did kind of open. You know, you you share this early memory which is like a very close knit musical experience. Right, that's all you had. So what's a song that opened you up to like just an entirely new perspective.

Speaker 1: 16:46

Yeah, so. So, coming from from the church music envelope, well, there were a few openings for other music to sneak into my life and I think it was like every Sunday or so every so often, we would go over to my grandparents house and they had a TV and we were allowed to watch Disney cartoons. And there was one Disney cartoon in particular that had a musical number that fricking knocked my socks off. That is the Little Mermaid Under the Sea. That song, just like that, that really opened my eyes and blew my mind.

Speaker 4: 18:05

Well, I love that song.

Speaker 3: 18:07

It's a happy good song, but like when we just came off, the song you just had and you're talking about, like that was on the little more upbeat side, like things were much, much slower. No wonder this blew your mind. Yes, it's catchy, it's cheeky, there's jokes in it, like what a colorful music video baked into a.

Speaker 1: 18:28

Disney movie. I mean, it's not the love, right.

Speaker 4: 18:31

Yeah, yeah, when this came out this was before Disney's known for their sort of adaptations and stuff and I remember when this thing came out, it was just like the animation was out of control and I had this art background that used to be really into like comic book art and like hand animation and stuff like that. And remember when this thing came out, I watched it, we got the home video at home and just like the ocean sequences them animating, you know, ocean waves crashing and things like that I did the detail. That was my reference point for this, for this movie. I loved it, watch it over and over again. But then, yeah, by the way, it had some amazing songs in there that I'll never forget, and this was one of them with Sebastian the crabs, you know, caribbean accent and everything. And yeah, yeah, it was great.

Speaker 1: 19:28

Yeah, now this, this movie, like when I thought I don't know if, I mean, there's causation and the correlation, right, like I don't know if this is the correlating thing or a causating thing, but like I love the ocean right, as we already discussed in the intro, and like my heart's in the sea right All the time, like, and I don't know if it's because of this song, like this just sort of opened my eyes. I mean, we lived, we lived by the water, so we, you know, in Jupiter, florida, so we went to the beach a lot and swimming and fishing, but so, but this really like this song was really incredible because it showed me what music bringing it back around to music, right, like it really showed me what music could be, what was possible. I don't know who's who can't be attracted to that Caribbean vibe, you know like so infectious and upbeat, positive and happy.

Speaker 4: 20:31

Yeah, was it this song in particular? Was it the movie or, I guess, a mix of both?

Speaker 1: 20:38

I mean, I thought the movie was good, but you know it's about a redheaded mermaid. I didn't exactly. You know I was. I don't think I was the target audience for that. I did marry a redhead later on in life. So I don't know. I'm sensing causation. Yeah there might be causation.

Speaker 2: 21:03

Yeah, I think the little mermaid's doing a lot of work in your life, yeah.

Speaker 3: 21:09

Did it did listening to something like this because you were like out of the house, you know, and as parents, like I think I don't know about you, rosa, but David and I have experienced with like grandparents, just like kind of spoiling kids or something. So you know, sometimes you go to grandparents and you get like to like just indulge. You have all the ice cream and all that stuff. Did it feel like this, like guilty pleasure of like listening to this?

Speaker 1: 21:30

whole different music, like my parents had. My grandparents had a television, right, we didn't have a TV, or no, we didn't watch TV over there. We watched VHS movies, sure, but they also had a Nintendo and, yes, so, like you know, super Mario Brothers and all this Right. So, yeah, definitely, going over to grandma and grandpa house was this somewhat guilty pleasure thing of you know. So there definitely could be an aspect of something, something out of the ordinary, something a little you know more better than typical experience that had an aspect in the attraction to it.

Speaker 3: 22:13

Sure, yeah, yeah, and in opening to just new music, but with that can come just new perspectives, right, you're like what else don't I know about, or what else haven't I seen or thought of or been exposed to? I feel like a lot of times, when you're exposed to new music in that way whether it's just a new song or a new genre you didn't know about like it really is kind of like life changing.

Speaker 1: 22:39

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 22:41

Yeah, you just see what, like all the possibilities that are out there, right I?

Speaker 1: 22:46

think for me like what I wanted to do after that song was go jump in the ocean and fish, you know like I wanted to go hang out with the crabs, you know, go see a wreck and hang out with a shark.

Speaker 4: 22:58

That's awesome, but I get to do that. Go find that redheaded mermaid right.

Speaker 2: 23:06

I got her to get like Speaking of the redheaded mermaid and Raza, when you were talking about the animation in that movie, with the waves crashing, there's that epic sort of moment scene where you know Ariel leans up, you know sits up on the rock and the wave hits the epic scene.

Speaker 4: 23:29

There's a iconic. Yeah, yeah, oh, my god, there's a.

Speaker 2: 23:32

There's an artist on Instagram or you know, tiktok, whatever or something like that, that recreates those scenes to look realistic. And so it's Ariel, drawn like Ariel, but because of the waves hitting her hair is all wet, there's like seaweed hanging, like if this was to really happen, this is how it would look. And so it's just. It's funny, because when you were, we've all been saying how sort of that movie, and especially when you were young and saw it, it was just like, oh my god, this is amazing and amazing. And so it just made me think of that scene of like well, that's not how it would really happen in real life, right?

Speaker 3: 24:08

That way would probably knock her over and like who knows, who knows.

Speaker 1: 24:11

Bash your face on the particle, it wouldn't be pretty.

Speaker 2: 24:17

Beyond some fail video somewhere. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 24:21

You'd have to go through a few mermaids to get it to work out, take 75, and you got it right Way to ruin it, david.

Speaker 3: 24:32

No, no, no. We were in the cartoon universe and now we're dealing with barnacles and seaweed. But I find some of those are super funny, like some of those that social media stuff is really funny when they like parody things that feel like perfect in the moment with how they would really be. I laugh super hard when I watch that stuff.

Speaker 1: 24:54

So I mean TV and movies and even, I guess, music. To some point it's like suspended reality, right, like you want to believe in something different, so you let your mind go there, and that's what makes it work. Yeah, yeah, my thinking. Yeah, don't tell me the matrix is a real.

Speaker 2: 25:16

Oh it's real, we're in it.

Speaker 1: 25:19

About 10 years out. Oh my God, there's an element to suspended reality. What is it? I'm thinking of Mexico work where you want to believe it, so you put down your suspended disbelief yeah. Suspension of disbelief yeah. Yes, yeah, and that very much exist in movies. Music to some extent as well. I mean otherwise, why would we like white strike videos?

Speaker 2: 25:50

Right, it's yeah.

Speaker 3: 25:52

It could be me.

Speaker 1: 25:53

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 25:54

If it was just real, like if Ariel is drawn of what it really happened and she's getting out and see we'd hanging down and her you know bikini top is, she's got to adjust and stuff it would be like, well, this isn't like what I want to see. And that's what's funny, like when I know I'm the one that took us down this way with by bringing up the drawing idea, but the drawing, seeing it, actually had the opposite effect. It wasn't like, oh, little mermaid lied to me, because I know they lied to me, like not lied to me, but you know it's a story.

Speaker 2: 26:23

It's like we said suspension of disbelief and stuff like that, and so the the the realistic drawing kind of made it like yeah, we want little mermaid to be like it is, we don't want it like this, that wouldn't, it wouldn't work, yeah Right.

Speaker 3: 26:41

Yeah, it kind of exemplifies what the magic really is in in that movie and the music and everything else.

Speaker 1: 26:49

When, if you bring it to music right, like rap videos or rap songs are catchy because like you put yourself in that like, oh yeah, I have the car and the money. Right, right or or, or, or, like you know, Jimmy Buffett. Okay, you know I love Jimmy Buffett. He's my musical hero. Rest in peace, you know he's got to be on a boat somewhere, but like when I listen to him, like I'm on the water right Like he puts me at the beach.

Speaker 1: 27:19

He puts me in the water and and I realize I'm not at the water when I'm listening to the song, but like I want it so badly that it just sort of brings a flavor of that into my life in the moment, yeah, yeah, totally. Yeah, I think that's a really interesting aspect of music that maybe is similar to what we're talking about with video here. The movie like bring down your reality guard to let some something interesting, unique in, even if it's non realistic, because it provides some value. Yeah, sure.

Speaker 4: 27:52

Yeah.

Speaker 4: 27:52

There was a lot of real themes in that, in that story too, though. I think that's that and then that's why it became such an epic. I mean you have like the teenage sort of angst built in there. You know the Ariel, I think she's like she's a teenager in the in the story and she's trying to get her dad's permission, king Triton's permission, to go up to the surface, and things like that. A lot of that stuff definitely resonated with me. It's like, you know, it's like no, no, no, it's to stay down here where it's safe and where your path has been set for you type thing.

Speaker 4: 28:27

Those themes and then her sort of escaping and then getting in trouble for it by way of the villain Ursula, and then that whole fiasco, ursula stealing her boys to get the dude that she fell in love. I mean it's like a proper Bollywood movie is what I'm trying to say it was. It was just epic. You know Bollywood, tell the novellas. I mean it's it's, you know, just epic, epic stuff going on in that. And we, we I know us myself, my cousins, all of us growing up we loved that movie and the song just brought up literally all of those, all those cool memories. Well, it's interesting.

Speaker 1: 29:07

You should bring that up, rosa, because, like, the irony literally dawned on me when I filled out the questionnaire for this for this podcast right, like, I went back to re listen to the song, really listen to the song, really, look at the words, right, yeah, and the song is telling Ariel not to leave the ocean, everything's better downwards, wetter under the sea.

Speaker 1: 29:35

Right, like the whole song is like don't leave, it's better here. Yeah, safe here, you're protected here, your love here, right, don't leave. I was safe, protected in my religious circle, and that song was like I could leave, right, and so it's kind of like this exact lip which struck me is quite odd because you know, my parents were trying to protect me, keep me safe. You know, physically, virtually, mentally, all these things, right, they're absolute lovely parents and I love them and they've done wonderfully. But like they were trying to protect me in their own way, right, trying to keep me safe in the religious bubble, and I was wanting to leave and the song was saying, hey, stay safe down here under the sea, don't leave. So I, literally it's only been a couple of weeks since that thought popped into my head, but how ironic.

Speaker 4: 30:43

So you probably resonated more with the Ariel song, right? So this was the under the sea song. I remember she had one which was the opposite, which was Ariel's perspective of trying to leave, trying to go to the surface and see all the wonders that are up, you know, up above up above forgetting what the name of that song is.

Speaker 1: 31:02

But yeah, she did her little back. She's in her museum full of like interesting things and she's spinning around and like you know, showing off all her little treasures. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4: 31:14

Yeah, um, oh my gosh, how did it go?

Speaker 3: 31:18

Are you going to sing it? For us Sing it?

Speaker 2: 31:20

Raza. Raza, you probably killed it.

Speaker 4: 31:24

There you go. We should all do it on the Pella, guys, come on.

Speaker 1: 31:29

Yes, you don't want to hear me sing.

Speaker 3: 31:32

Yeah, oh, my mic is like oh, I'm losing you. Oh, just went out, oh yeah. Oh my goodness, so sort of moving us ahead with this theme of, like, new perspectives and things that open up your world in really good ways. We'll kind of keep that.

Speaker 4: 31:53

Part of your world. I'm so sorry. The song was called Part of your World. That was it, and she was singing to her love right above water. I want to be part of your world. I'm so sorry.

Speaker 2: 32:05

I knew that was coming. I knew it was going to pop into your mind or you were going to look it up and find it. And it's going to come out because yeah, I'm impressed, raza, I'm impressed and a little neuro fired off in the back.

Speaker 1: 32:18

there I'm 100%.

Speaker 3: 32:20

Do you feel better?

Speaker 1: 32:21

about that.

Speaker 2: 32:22

Yeah, it's out, I remember what that song was.

Speaker 3: 32:24

It would bother you the whole day. It would bother me the whole day.

Speaker 4: 32:27

Yeah, the whole chorus and her going through her museum of crap was in my head and then I'm like what was the punchline? And then it's museum of treasures. It's not crap.

Speaker 2: 32:41

Remember she had the floor and she thought it was that the whole message there was that we look at it as garbage and crap, but she's like and we need to. There's a consumerism aspect to it.

Speaker 1: 32:54

I remember she she finds a floor and she this is where it's going to happen. We're not even going to get to any more songs.

Speaker 2: 33:00

We're just going to. We're going to do.

Speaker 4: 33:04

Oh my goodness, I'm sorry.

Speaker 2: 33:07

It's a music podcast, not a movie podcast. People that's coming next.

Speaker 4: 33:13

Oh, my goodness, oh life in six movies. We need to reactivate the Patreon page for that. Write that down.

Speaker 2: 33:20

All right. Goodbye little mermaid. Goodbye little mermaid, we're going to transition.

Speaker 3: 33:26

We're going to transition back to land and and life's, life's, perfect moments. So for your next question, what's a song that was part of a perfect moment where everything just just felt right for you?

Speaker 1: 33:41

Well, there's only one song possible for me, and it's Van Morrison's Brown Eyed Girl. That takes me to, like late college years. I kind of come to the you know, come to the realization that this engineering thing might actually work out. I could possibly graduate, so that was good. I had found a girl that was took my breath away and like she was is everything. She's not my wife, but back then she was my girlfriend and then my fiance. But this song, van Morrison Brown Eyed Girl, takes me right back there when, like, the world was so full of hope and optimism and everything was working out Like, had someone who loved me and I love them. And you know the future, the career looked right and you know, the car was a piece of crap but that wasn't going to last forever. You know, like everything just seemed like it was on the right trajectory. And Van Morrison's Brown Eyed Girl and for the record, my wife is not Brown Eyed Girl, she's Love that.

Speaker 3: 34:56

Let's take a quick Of the song, but that's right.

Speaker 2: 34:59

It's metaphorical Brown eyes. Yeah, let's take a listen. Are we used to saying.

Speaker 1: 35:43

And that's not really spelled by face every time.

Speaker 3: 35:45

Yeah, how do you do listening to it again now?

Speaker 1: 35:50

Yeah, it's just such a happy, positive life is good. You know song that really reflects my attitude and feelings back.

Speaker 3: 36:04

Yeah, particularly when you can like I don't know, there's something about like songs that that fit the soundtrack, when you're like falling in love, that, just like I don't know, they give you like all the warm butterflies and like they really stick with you over time.

Speaker 1: 36:23

Yeah, that's really true. I mean I don't have an exact moment of this song playing and my, you know, being with my wife, but like I knew early on that this song Reflected my, my feelings, for my wife, girlfriend, and just said everything I wanted to say, right, like, or maybe to say everything, but felt everything. I felt, yeah, we played the song, I insisted on the song, at our wedding. This was played at our wedding.

Speaker 2: 36:58

Oh. I love that.

Speaker 3: 36:59

That's sweet. Does she?

Speaker 1: 37:01

know, this reminds you of your time. Oh yeah, she got.

Speaker 2: 37:04

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 37:06

I like to talk.

Speaker 2: 37:10

I just have this image of the wedding and the song comes on. It's like, yeah, this is being played before, Ben, but you know. And then all your guests going oh, remember her having brown eyes. Does she have brown eyes? I?

Speaker 1: 37:24

don't know.

Speaker 2: 37:24

Let's pull up pictures, right yeah.

Speaker 1: 37:27

Yeah, I don't remember the big intro at the wedding. It was just in the playlist. But it was it, was it had to be there, mm hmm.

Speaker 4: 37:35

You love that this song is like like a standard requirement for every every live band that's ever played in Gainesville Florida. Anytime you go out to any dive, bar, any local you know, hangout, brewery, whatever you know it's. I've heard this song every single time there and it's in it and it's as part. It's like you know, it's like playing out of a sweet home, alabama. You know, in Alabama it's this, is this is required listening for any party in Gainesville Florida.

Speaker 1: 38:08

Yeah, it just moved the room, Raza Like, so I went to University of.

Speaker 3: 38:11

Florida as well.

Speaker 1: 38:12

And it just moved the room like they start playing Brown Eyed Girl and literally every couple like gets up and just starts moving a group. You know it's like the room parting the sea, but the opposite. They come back together like everybody get up and dance.

Speaker 3: 38:32

It's so funny like college towns and just colleges in general that like have those songs.

Speaker 1: 38:38

Yeah, mm hmm, in. Gainesville, Florida, where you F is like Brand Eyed Girls is strong with, but then literally every Tom Petty song right, Because Tom Petty right. Tom Petty is from Gainesville.

Speaker 2: 38:48

Yeah yeah, tom Petty house. I went to UF as well, so right on, go Gators, go Gators. Carolina did, but for her graduate degree, so she doesn't really.

Speaker 1: 39:03

I count that, I count, that, I count on the rare, I'm glad.

Speaker 3: 39:06

Well then, you won't hold my undergraduate from the University of Miami against me.

Speaker 1: 39:12

No, I'm kidding. I got accepted to two University of Miami, university of Florida. There you go.

Speaker 4: 39:22

So you went to UF University of Florida.

Speaker 3: 39:24

Got it they were fair, fair, fair, fair. But I still paying that off till the end of time. I wanted to go to UF.

Speaker 1: 39:34

So everybody on the East Coast of Florida, you know growing up like UM is, u1 was a great football team back then too. So it's right, yeah, yeah, big Gainesville, it's a beautiful place and you know, miami is a great town, a great city. So what's not to love about?

Speaker 3: 39:55

UM, nothing. I love my time there 100%. I can't fall down.

Speaker 2: 40:02

Yeah, and it's so funny. It's so funny too, raza, when you set, when you brought that up, about it being played in Gainesville and it's like the cover song and and it's so true and I'm sure it's that way in other places. But, yeah, when you said that it, yeah, this song reminds me of Gainesville and being out at just the random bar and yeah, it's going to come on and everyone, like you said it's going to go nuts like the reverse Moses, and it's like everyone's just up and going yeah, yeah, it's got that power. Yeah, it's just one of those songs.

Speaker 4: 40:35

Short sandals, happy, empty yeah With white shirts or Hawaii shirts or UF shirts, and this song.

Speaker 2: 40:44

Yeah, yes, very different style choices in Gainesville and UF compared to Miami and the university.

Speaker 3: 40:55

Yes, yes. So thinking while we're sitting here kind of in in in happy and perfect moments, it's, it's important to know like life at steps and downs, right, it's, it's not always sunshine's, rainbows and waves in the sea, but life has, it's really difficult, challenging moments as well. So, to pivot us a little bit from from the joy, what's a song that reminds you or has helped you through a difficult time or situation?

Speaker 1: 41:29

Yeah, I can't escape this water vibes. But Bob Marley's Three Little Birds is, it's been like a constant companion for me, as you know, when I'm feeling really down and there's been some times of real struggle, you know, bearing in on a situation, or like life pushed you over, pushed me over. And Three Little Birds is definitely a song that I go to over and over again when I just need to be like recollected and lifted up, like it has this amazing effect of helping me understand the bigger picture, right, like cause. You know, life happens, we get busy in the weeds, I get stuck on a on a situation or a problem, you know, whether it's work or family or whatever. And and I go to Three Little Birds probably a couple of times a year because it's not because I like it but because I need it.

Speaker 1: 42:40

And it just reminds me that you know what? There's more to life, right, there's still birds out singing, the sun's still going to come up, and that's okay, I'm still alive. There's more to do, there's more to give, there's more to enjoy. It's the feasible past, right. So to me, I mean I just love Bob Marley, but like this song in particular is is really, really striking and supportive to me when I I mean there was well, I guess we'll play and then elaborate.

Speaker 2: 43:16

Yeah, let's go back there one more time.

Speaker 1: 44:03

Oh yeah, I just lifted up already. You know like it's just such truth. You know the sun's going to come up again and the birds will sing again. Yeah, no matter what struggles got me down those truths remain and and that makes it okay, right, like, as long as I can just keep walking, keep moving forward, it'll be all right. It'll be all right, I'll see the sun again. I'll hear some birds. Everything's going to be all right.

Speaker 2: 44:39

Totally I. I love how you said in the lead up to it of I would. I listened to it a couple of times a year, not simply because I like it, but because I need it.

Speaker 2: 44:53

I think that is you know. I think that sums up so well what we're talking about here and everything we're doing of just like you know it's. It's not music isn't just there as a nice to have, it's it's needed at times, or or the, the expression that comes out of it right Of some kind, and I think that's just so, so on point and said so succinctly, of just no, it's not just because I liked it, it's because I needed it. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 45:28

Yeah, further, like take that a little bit further. And it's not like when I put it on because I need it, I'm not that I want to hear it, it's like I'm literally in a place where, like I'm so beat down, like what do I have left? But a song, you know? Yeah, feel like the waves are on me and there's no air.

Speaker 2: 45:55

Right, right Like a life preserver or something.

Speaker 1: 45:57

Yeah, that's the grass, right, that Bob Marley song is the grass to get to the surface.

Speaker 2: 46:03

Yeah, thank you, bob yeah.

Speaker 4: 46:07

Yeah, that's powerful, right, that's super powerful in itself. That a song has this ability to to lift you up out of that. That. You know that that that headspace and it's a song, it's. It could be just a song, you know, air quotes just a song, but it's like that's that's. You know it has the power to do that for you, and I think that's that. That that's that's important. It should be, it should be recognized.

Speaker 3: 46:37

Yeah, and over time, like Bob Marley's been gone a really long time, right, his music, this song in particular, like it's really timeless, like it feels just as relevant, happy, uplifting today than you know it did when we were kids. I don't even know when it came out, but but he's, he's been, he's, he passed away really a long time ago at this point and his music continues to like, strongly, live on, oh there's something about what he put out in the world.

Speaker 1: 47:14

It was just, I mean, at least this is my perception of Bob Marley but it was pure positivity. You know, like optimism, hope, I mean the guy speaks of some really horrific experiences and circumstances and yet you know, bob Marley can find hope in it, right, like I mean, maybe he had some help. But if he can find hope in it, you know, like I should be able to as well. And it's not a complicated song, right, not like a some big, elaborate story and like journey of redemption or hope. You know, it's just like just putting simple truths out there melodically, with a nice calming beat or rhythm or you know, melody, and I don't know if that's the trick for me. I mean it doesn't fix my problems but it helps me like, kind of like step out of that headspace for a couple of minutes and maybe find some footage.

Speaker 2: 48:15

Yeah, hey, honey, I listened to the Barb Marley song. All the bills are taken care of now, right? Yes, nobody's true.

Speaker 3: 48:24

When you feel like you're almost drowning in, like overwhelm, like how do you step out of that for a minute to kind of catch your breath? And if a song like this can do that for you, that speaks powerfully. And I think with a couple of songs it was like this one and the last one like it was a very clear response. You were like there is but one song, right, like I don't have to think about this too hard, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 48:50

Yeah, it's interesting. When I was approached about doing the podcast, first I thought, wow, that's a really big ass. How am I going to spoil my life down to six songs? Sounds like a really hard problem. And so you know it's not committal about everything. And I just walked away. You know that thought percolating in the back and within 20 minutes I had six songs, like they just kept popping right Like I'd just be, you know, walking through the house and was like what about this one? Like yeah, of course, got it, yeah, of course that song, you know. And then, like 10 minutes later it'd be another song would pop into my head Like yeah, that's it, that has to be the song, right, and it just revealed itself to me so clearly in a short amount of time. I thought that was rather interesting. So the six songs prompt you guys have here is powerful stuff. It's really powerful and I appreciate the opportunity to participate in this lovely experience.

Speaker 2: 50:04

Yeah, yeah, we appreciate you coming on and do it and sharing that aspect. I find it it's so, so interesting with that too. I mean, we've been doing this podcast, you know, for you know a couple months now maybe, like with prep time, getting ready to launch or whatever. And, as people in my world have just heard about it from you know, sharing it and stuff, and people will message me and just checking in like, hey, how's it going, how are you doing, or whatever. And they're like, oh, I'm loving the podcast, or whatever.

Speaker 2: 50:32

And they're like I've got my six and it's blah, blah, blah and they rattle it off and I'm like, I'm so surprised by that because I did not expect it, I didn't expect people to just be offering that, and so I was like, oh, my goodness, is this like the workplace issue that's gonna be here? Like you know, people have it like famous actors that did that one movie. You know that every and every time they see them on the street, it's like, hey, what's up? You know, costanza, you know, I know who you are. And I'm like, oh God, if this gets any bigger and people start to know, are people gonna come up to us and be like, oh, I wanna tell you my six.

Speaker 1: 51:07

I wanna tell you, my six. And I'm like I'm just trying to eat my salad here at the restaurant.

Speaker 2: 51:13

Yeah, yeah. And then I'm like hold on, we have a questionnaire, Don't worry. I'll send you the link yeah.

Speaker 3: 51:20

I think. Well, I think sometimes we go through life the good times, the bad times, the transitions is where we'll go to next. And we but we're I don't know. Our memories sometimes are in real time, things that were said to us or how we were feeling, or whatever the event was, asking folks through this way, what we're doing, of translating it to music. I don't know that you always connect, that there was music connected to that time in your life but, when you start to think about it, like you like it just like bubbled to the surface.

Speaker 3: 51:56

Those memories came like right back.

Speaker 2: 52:00

Yeah, and you can tell it now, as you're telling the stories and we're playing the songs, You're not just like no, no, this was the song, even though you're not really sure, but you're like I'm gonna go with this one and I'll stand behind it, Like it's clear. You know that there's stuff there. Connection.

Speaker 1: 52:19

And to the enduring theme of this podcast I love punk rock. Punk rock, like you know, these aren't. This isn't okay. I'd be lying if I said beach music is not my favorite genre, but like what I listened to on a regular basis. You know these, you know fan more than I don't listen to all the time. Great, sure, yeah, church hymns not so much lately. You know the little mermaid. I watched the reboot but you know it's not like I've got these songs on on loop in my life, right, but these momentous songs you know to Carolina's point, they were there in the moment, you know, and some of them caused the moment, you know, like the little mermaid song you know to me like that pushed the evolutionary adaptation, I guess, along.

Speaker 1: 53:19

So yeah.

Speaker 3: 53:21

Yeah, I think that's been one of the most surprising things for me from all of our guests and just this process as a whole. You know I did my own episode, so I had to like think about these things too, and it's that it's not our favorite music to rock out or listen to. It's this music that presents itself in our life unexpectedly, without prompting, that just gets seared into a memory.

Speaker 1: 53:47

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3: 53:48

Yeah, not a psychologist, but I have found this to be like just really interesting how that plays out.

Speaker 1: 53:53

Yeah, I think you guys found a vein of gold here with this. Yeah, oh, thank you.

Speaker 2: 54:00

Yeah, we've enjoyed the you know handful we've done so far and it's just been so great it's, it's. It's been a really great way to get to know someone too In this, in this way of like, you know, every guess we've had on, I'm now like connected to them in a way that I wouldn't have been before. And the songs they brought up right. I'm never going to hear Brown Eyed Girl the same way again, because not only do I have my own history with that music and I remember my parents playing the Van Morrison, that record you know down in the basement, but now I've got a new one right, and so now when it comes on I'll be like, oh, I remember in the basement, oh, and this was Ben's song, you know, like it's just, it's just great in that way. So, yeah, yeah, and it's funny too. You said about the, you know, you kind of want to say like, hey, just so everyone knows out there, I'm not like rocking out to the little mermaid soundtrack every day in my car. You're nuts. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 54:54

You're nuts, Although, although full disclosure, in college I would put Lion King or Little Mermaid on every night to go to sleep. It was just a peaceful way to kind of fall asleep. So hey, there you go.

Speaker 1: 55:11

The Lion King is another movie with a great soundtrack.

Speaker 2: 55:15

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 55:16

And just in that way too Right.

Speaker 2: 55:18

The animation, it was this sort of epic scale. Anyway, not a movie podcast. Where was I going with that? Oh yeah, the like I had. Some people say, oh, I've got my six and it's, it's, it's more of their six favorite songs. And I'm always quick to say, like this is not Desert Island songs, it's not the six that you would listen to if you could only have six. If anything, it's not the opposite of that, but it's songs that you may not even realize are important in your life. But then, like you said, going through the questionnaire and this, you know all three of us did it too, which I'm so glad we did now because we're aware of the experience that everybody's having, because it's that same way, like once, you know that Britney Spears with me, of Britney Spears is toxic in when I was deployed to Iraq and I, I was like no, that can't be one of my songs I'm going to talk about, but I'm like, no, this is exactly it, it's the epitome it's the one that it gave the idea for this right.

Speaker 2: 56:13

Like other people have to have these connections to music that is is just there at parts of their life and so, yeah, so thank you for sharing everything so far and what we have more to go.

Speaker 3: 56:27

That's right, got a couple more. So, in thinking about just the journey you've been on between new perspectives and, you know, just based on your intro, you've been pretty busy, which means you've had, you know, probably a lot of transitions in your life as you try new things, as you pivot, as things work, as they fail, as you know, life does what life does. For your next song, I'll ask what's the song that you associate with a weighty transition in your life? What's the song and what was that transition?

Speaker 1: 56:58

Yeah. So you know, as you get, as it's been noted, I've done. I've done quite a few things, and not just like all in a small little zone, but like I've reinvented my career a couple of times here. So I'm out of necessity, others out of desire, but song that to me kind of inspires me to keep going. You know, when a door closes, like crawl through that window right, like what's the song that does that? The song that does that for me is Jimmy Buffett. With Alan Jackson, I've got boats to build.

Speaker 1: 57:36

Everybody who goes through Gainesville gets a little bit of a country experience. You know, going to Gainesville, florida, and the first thing that I do is I end up listening to a little bit of country. And I like Alan Jackson, but I love Jimmy Buffett and to me this song like, really like, brings two amazing artists together and it's so inspirational to me that you know, life throws transitions, life throws Beat bumps and hiccups and you know what, like let's get through them, let's, let's overcome them. And this boat, this boat Got boats to build this song.

Speaker 2: 58:12

That was a great Freudian slip.

Speaker 1: 58:14

That was perfect. This new boat, this boat I'm about to build, will get me there. So, Alan Jackson, jimmy Buffett, I've got boats to build.

Speaker 5: 58:51

From a normal plane. Let the ships fall where they will, cause I've got boats to build.

Speaker 3: 59:06

How does it feel listening to it now?

Speaker 1: 59:08

I love that song, right, it tells me that you know what I'm still here, I'm still kicking. If you know, anytime a transition comes like and it's not that I'm going to build a boat, it's, you know, allegory for transitions and the work it takes to make a transition, cause anytime you do anything new it's a lot of work. Right, you got to go back to school or you got to. You know, you guys, in this podcast, like nobody just puts on a podcast, to wake up one morning and it's recording you got to like put all the pieces together. Right, you had a boat to build. This is a boat. Right, like your podcast is a boat.

Speaker 1: 59:45

Like my you know, my solar and my solar installation company. It took two years of preparation before I was able to even like hang a shingle. They, hey, let me put up solar panels on your roof. And you know, just as that company started to catch it. Right, just as there was the wind in that sale, the great recession, and so who's gonna put $15,000 to $20,000 worth of solar panels on their roof when their house just dropped $20,000 in value last year? Right, like that was the last.

Speaker 1: 1:00:25

So that sunk that, if you will. Then there's a whole emotional experience when something goes south like that and eventually I listened to three little birds enough times and I'm like, okay, what's the next thing? Right? There's a lot of other things that occurred in the meantime, but I decided to start a rapid manufacturing company. I really saw some need for that. There's a lot of preparation for that, to build out a company in partnerships, to get everything in place.

Speaker 1: 1:01:05

It was a boat to build and then COVID just like a year, two years into that, covid happens and rework everything and through that whole process of building a boat, it's sinking building another boat, starting to sound like the guy in Monty Python, right, I built a castle and fell into the swamp and then I built another town. But that's how I find myself now doing the artificial intelligence work, right. So through the rapid manufacturing work got into projects, we were doing things, building out complete systems, and we started integrating artificial intelligence capacity into our offerings, into our systems that we were selling, and the artificial intelligence side of thing was really valuable and took off. So that's how I find myself doing what I'm doing now. But over and over again, it's got boats to build. You got an idea, you got a concept and you gotta go for it. But it's not just like a one and done. You have to plan, you have to prepare, you have to build the boat before anything. But the whole process is very optimistic.

Speaker 1: 1:02:29

This song is that optimistic to me, so it's gonna be, worth it, but we're on the water. It'll be great.

Speaker 3: 1:02:40

I love that. Jimmy Buffett is kind of that soundtrack for you and I'm gonna say like failing forward. But as someone has had to pivot a lot too, it's hard. It can be hard to continuously pick yourself back up, dust yourself off and I loved your reference to a door closing and not that life opens a window or whatever. But you said something like you gotta crawl yourself through a window and it really does feel like that. Right, it doesn't necessarily feel like the other opportunity is just like poof, right there. It feels like this crawling to get back up and find whatever that sliver of a window or other door or doggy door or whatever it is that you gotta crawl through to get there. And I just I don't know. I love Jimmy Buffett, so the fact that he kind of sat in that journey with you is probably, I don't know.

Speaker 1: 1:03:37

I'm just wondering. He might not be here, but he's still on the journey.

Speaker 2: 1:03:41

Yeah, he's building more boats, yeah, no, I really appreciate this song and your story behind it and your stories here in the songs are just like inspiring in this way of just like there's such like I'm seeing so much of your story in it. Right, and what you've done, like in this sort of the songs, are all different, right, from Disney movies to whatever, but there's these, like you see you in all of them, right? Oh, I realized I just made a wave signal with my hands, perfect, but yeah, I just oh, I love it. And as someone who I grew up with Jimmy Buffett all the time playing, my dad was a huge fisherman and boater and Jimmy Buffett was on all the time.

Speaker 2: 1:04:34

We had every album and it was what was interesting. When I was getting your songs ready and saw this song, I was like, oh, this is one I'm not as familiar with, and so that was a nice surprise. And you know cause I'm like I've had to have heard all of Jimmy Buffett's songs, right? No, I mean, it's like, nope, there's always, there's always one more out there, it seems.

Speaker 1: 1:04:55

Yeah, no, this isn't, is definitely not one of, like, the fan favorite Jimmy Buffett song, you know. But yeah, there's probably very few people that actually have heard this song. But yeah, I don't know how I came across it, but when I did come across it it just spoke to me, you know. It was like, yeah, this song it's how I keep going forward. This song explains the process of reinvention invention in the first place, you know. So, that's why, I love it. Yeah, I feel like his songs.

Speaker 3: 1:05:34

Yeah, have a lot of those good, just sort of metaphors in ways that, like when you're thinking about like boating or being out on the sea, you know things like the weather or things like you know lots just goes wrong. And so how do you find purpose, how do you keep going, how do you navigate the squalls and storms of life? And he does just a beautiful job at like articulating that through song.

Speaker 4: 1:05:59

It's. So when he's singing boats to build, I'm in my mind, I'm hearing stuff to do, like it's about taking action. Keep going, but keep doing. You have, you know, I got boats to build. I have stuff to do, I have stuff to get done. When, if one door closes, well, you know to move forward, but you know it's the action. But I was just thinking.

Speaker 4: 1:06:23

Also, another great analogy is that I think you were saying something about, you know, if a venture failed, it was kind of like a boat sinking, and so the boat that you're trying to build has to be like sea worthy, right, I mean, it has to. You can't just put a bunch of planks together and watch it sink. You have to plan and you have to, yeah, and you have to execute. Now, thinking since, so if there's stuff to do and there's stuff to build, whether it's building a career or building a venture or building a business, whatever it might be, I think that boat analogy works on many different you know fronts because in order to have something succeed, you gotta, you have to.

Speaker 4: 1:07:08

You know, draft it, plan it, kind of. Do your trial and error, maybe do a test, run a test, you know, trip down Potomac River, I don't know, you know, and again in air quotes, but yeah, that boats analogy and to build boats and stuff to do and I love that application. Maybe I don't know, maybe Jim Jimmie Buffett was on to something when he used, when he used that reference, because it can go. You know multiple different ways and I know I know literally nothing about boats or water or things being seaworthy.

Speaker 1: 1:07:46

I'm not gonna change that, Rafa.

Speaker 4: 1:07:48

Yeah yeah, yeah, nice, but yeah no, it's great, great song and great message too.

Speaker 1: 1:07:54

Yeah, and I think what it does for me the song is it takes a little bit of the fear and a little bit of the trepidation of preparation and hard work required to make to achieve a goal. If you can put something in a song, it doesn't seem so scary, right. And so, like, thinking about boats to build, oh yeah, it takes work to build a boat. Oh, you got a plan. You got to like do the work. You got to like make the boards. You got to put it together. Right Like, got to test sail and all this, right, putting it in a song makes it less terrifying, it makes it less stressful, you know, and just like, and if, really, in the last couple of years, I've identified the value of abstraction, right Like, if I can abstract an idea into a corollary concept, like I'm starting a company, but no, it's just a boat, right that really helps over here, because I stopped looking at that thing I'm trying to build as this big scary thing it's just a boat.

Speaker 1: 1:09:05

Right, it's just a boat. Okay, so there's clanks to build, there's, you know, things to do over here with the boat. There's also things to do over here with starting this company and, you know, starting to develop. So, best, right, like abstracting that terrifying idea through song into you know something less scary, it's a really powerful way I've found in my life to keep moving forward, right With the terrifying idea and with the big mountain decline. It is a big boat. Yeah, I don't know, it just massively helps in my mind. Yeah, and I do want to give one funny allegory the name of sorry side story, the name of my first boat.

Speaker 1: 1:09:50

Eight sunk, yet I named my boat eight sunk. Yet you want to know why? Because I wanted to go scuba dive that thing so bad, I thought it would be the best thing in the world to go scuba dive a boat where on the side it says eight sunk. Yet Right, right, yeah, can you imagine going down and be?

Speaker 2: 1:10:14

like we're going to go see the wreck and it's like eight sunk, yet yeah, I see what you did there oh my.

Speaker 3: 1:10:22

God, that is funny.

Speaker 1: 1:10:24

Ron, it's the.

Speaker 4: 1:10:24

Titanic man.

Speaker 1: 1:10:26

In the backyard somewhere South Florida.

Speaker 4: 1:10:32

It reminds me of the Titanic. Remember it was called the unsinkable Like literally that was.

Speaker 3: 1:10:36

That was totally, but I think you were planning on sinking it to make it like a wreck.

Speaker 1: 1:10:44

I hope to sink it to it. I'm going to go scuba dive a place later.

Speaker 3: 1:10:47

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:10:49

And it almost got a couple.

Speaker 3: 1:10:53

Like it's today, the day I think it's sunk, yet I guess we're going back.

Speaker 2: 1:10:57

Yeah, no, I appreciate your flushing out of like the connections and how you saw it and the boat and things like that Cause just one more to throw out there, in that way of like when you were describing the real life boats you were building and what was happening to them. Those boats didn't sink because you did a bad job on building the boat. It was these things out in the world, yes, and it just. I think the boat metaphor just works so well for that, because you're an engineer, right, you could do all the math, get everything and build like the perfect boat, but it doesn't mean shit until you put it on the water and see if it floats right. That's what boats do.

Speaker 2: 1:11:45

If the boat doesn't float right, doesn't matter what else is going on, and that's kind of out of your control, in a sense right, because that's dependent on the ocean, like you said, row, waves and all those types of things. And so I think it's like what I was also hearing in that way too, of like you can put all of your effort into building the boat, it doesn't guarantee it's not going to sink, and just cause it does doesn't mean you're a bad boat builder, it just means go back and do it again. Yeah.

Speaker 3: 1:12:15

Right life.

Speaker 2: 1:12:16

Climb through a window.

Speaker 3: 1:12:18

That's right. Climb through a window. Yeah, it's impossible to predict like a massive recession or a pandemic, or like how often does life say hold my beer, let me throw this at you.

Speaker 1: 1:12:32

And every couple of years. In my experience it's.

Speaker 3: 1:12:37

I guess more often than we think. But we got to persevere and figure out our purpose and lived like find another day.

Speaker 3: 1:12:48

So I'm gonna we're almost there I'm gonna transition us to your last song here, and we've talked a lot about like career and love and life, but I think there's probably more. Just you time, right, personal things that you like to do, what kind of describes what makes you happy. And so for your last song, it's what's? A song that's intimately connected to another activity, location, a trip, a book, a sport, something that you just love.

Speaker 1: 1:13:17

All right. So I said I had a song about a desert. Would you believe me? Probably not, probably not. So the song that takes me somewhere it has to be Mr Lou by Dick Dick. That song drops right back Juneau Beach Pier, got a head high, swell drops well coming in, and I couldn't be happier.

Speaker 3: 1:13:40

Oh, dear, okay.

Speaker 2: 1:13:42

Let's take a listen. B fucked up.

Speaker 1: 1:14:19

So I hope it's not too cliche, but like this song I mean, for whatever reason this song like puts me in the water. Every I mean. To me that song is the experience of surfing music, although you take a two minute song and you have to push it down to about 20 seconds for South Florida surfing.

Speaker 4: 1:14:39

Not all you get.

Speaker 1: 1:14:42

Yeah, this, is it right here? This puts me back in the ocean, out in the water, with my best buddies, and got horrible chops well coming in, because it's South Florida. It's not nice clean lines, it's, you know, maybe a hurricane's well blowing. It's a washing machine right, put your out here having fun. The weather's nice, water's warm, looking for waves and rolling your brains out. Yeah, blinking all the salt water out of your eyes and hoping for more, you know.

Speaker 4: 1:15:22

Yeah, yeah, nice. I mean, we know this song was immortalized by Pulp Fiction, yeah, but, and yeah, I think, as someone who has, you know, very little connection to water, this will always, always remind me of you know the like, the diner scene, and you know guns of blazing, and you know jewels and Vincent Vega, which was also, you know, a huge part of, like, south Florida culture and high school and stuff like that. Yeah, no, this is great. I love this song.

Speaker 1: 1:16:01

Yeah, I don't know where I came across it, but I mean I went down a whole like classic rock Rock, rabbit Hole, back in high school. I think it started with the Beach Boys and these guys. They never even got in the water. I'm like, okay, let's find an artist that actually got in the water, like you know, like Buddy Holly and like Dick Dale was right there beside Buddy Holly for me, but Dick Dale was just like you know that like screaming surf guitar is like the experience of not necessarily riding away particularly, but like falling down the face of the wave, like dropping into a wave, is this? It's this physical, emotional adrenaline packed literally one to two seconds.

Speaker 1: 1:16:59

Right, I started surfing because I was skateboarding. I just got so sick and tired of getting hurt. Like skateboarding there was always something sweet, or you know, you like crash. You're like break my arm, is my shoulder in? You know, tired being injured. All the time I wonder about surfing, right? So me and my buddy battled out for the first time didn't have a clue what we were doing. You know middle school and you know he was my best buddy then. He's my best buddy now, like, and we still go surf together. You know years and years. Your decades later, we're still searching together, less often, but still chasing those waves.

Speaker 2: 1:17:39

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:17:40

But like it puts me not necessarily in the water but like falling down the face of a wave, right that driving motion of the surf, of the speed guitar riff. You know that's the best way I could explain falling down the face of water and like just the spray in your face and the wind from the wave and just the overall experience. So that's where that comes from.

Speaker 2: 1:18:15

I really like that because you know surfing and surfers you know as a group, you know the vibe of it is very like, you know, one with the water and one with the earth and it's supposed to be this reconnection with the wave and you know it's a very spiritual experience for a lot of surfers, right? But what you're talking about is that momentary part of surfing where it could go. Either way, I'm either going to have a good ride or I'm not going to make it down, and you know I don't know all the terms, I'm not a surfer.

Speaker 1: 1:18:53

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:18:56

And I just really like that because it's sort of that thing of like no, it's it. Being peaceful and being connected doesn't mean like.

Speaker 1: 1:19:04

Oh, that's absolutely fair. Can't be exciting, yeah, and you're like you need that.

Speaker 1: 1:19:08

Yeah, yeah. You need those moments of panic and sheer exhilaration when you're like you feel the back of your board tip up right and either you've got it or you've either caught the wave, you've paddled hard enough, you've put yourself in the right position, you've done all that. The wave picks you up and pushes you down the face and it's like it's like hitting on, it's like stepping on the accelerator. All right, like kind of get pushed back to the sea. But imagine if you didn't have a windshield. Right Like you just feel the wind in your face, right?

Speaker 1: 1:19:42

And then imagine if there was a bucket of water while that's happening and he throws it in your face, right. That's the experience, you know. And then in South Florida I mean the California people they got it so lucky, although they're cold, they're in a big old wet, wet suits.

Speaker 1: 1:19:56

Yeah, south Florida water was almost always warm, but at least they had like really nice lines down in South Florida. I mean, it was like drop in bottom turn. Maybe you got like one or two seconds of a line and then it's just another wall of water in your face and you know, all right, right over, go out and do it again.

Speaker 3: 1:20:18

And then do it again.

Speaker 1: 1:20:20

Yeah, oh, you're pumped at that point you cannot.

Speaker 2: 1:20:24

What's your dream location to surf? Money's no object. No, anything's any object, just pie in the sky.

Speaker 1: 1:20:32

I love Costa Rica. I love Costa Rica. I'll probably be back down there in a month or two, but yeah, no, Costa Rica's just got the warm water, it's got the long lines right. My joke about the 22nd ride right. Like I've never had a two minute ride like the length of Miserloo from the scale right. So that can be a complete, accurate reflection of all of my surfing. Has never surfed for that long, but that is the possibility down in Costa Rica, so I know I'm going to try and pull that off. Nice.

Speaker 3: 1:21:14

Nice.

Speaker 2: 1:21:15

Love it.

Speaker 3: 1:21:15

I don't surf, but I think like the visual you're describing is resonating, like I can sort of like visualize it. What I love about the connection to this song Is that like super fast guitar, like I don't surf, but it gives me like an adrenaline rush to hear the song, like something about the way the music plays and so like connecting those two activities and like this really intense nature of like those seconds where you're like this is either going to be good or this is going to hurt real bad.

Speaker 1: 1:21:46

Winners or fail, we're going to have fun.

Speaker 3: 1:21:48

That's right. We're on it now Like I love that. I love that, yeah, all right. So, ben, we have gone through your six songs. How, hey, how does it, yeah, how does it feel to like hear your life reflected through through music and these six songs.

Speaker 1: 1:22:12

Really really fascinating way to consider one's life, isn't it Like I can't? You know, I've heard a few of the podcasts and everybody's like, wow, I never expected it this way, right, but for me it's. It's been a really interesting way to look at life in a non emotional way, right, if you, anytime you can take a motion out of, out of analysis, it's definitely beneficial. And the ability to abstract, going back to abstract thinking here, abstract your life into a few songs.

Speaker 1: 1:22:46

I found it's really amazing experience, really illuminating, and honestly, it's put me on a little bit of an introspective play to like kind of like figure out why, you know, why am I some ways, and it was interesting to kind of connect the dots on how I got here. Right, yeah, maybe it's not because of messed up, because of my journey, the path, you know it's been fascinating. I appreciate the opportunity. I really, like I said earlier, I think you guys have a great subject matter here. Really it helped people. I appreciate the opportunity to be on because it's been helpful for me, I'll admit, just the process.

Speaker 3: 1:23:30

Nice.

Speaker 1: 1:23:32

I'm glad you guys awesome.

Speaker 4: 1:23:34

Yeah, it's really cool to hear that. Yeah, all right.

Speaker 2: 1:23:38

What I love is in your you did it in your answer to that. I've seen your engineer come out at times and you're like anytime you can separate emotion from your analysis and stuff, you're on point and I'm like, okay, that's engineer bed.

Speaker 2: 1:23:54

But then other times you've you've been that more artistic, metaphorical, I'll say emotional side of of, of really just deep analysis, of getting he kind of human experiences across. So I just I just find that interesting because it's like I think a lot of times we get pigeonholed and you're like, you know, someone could talk to you, ben, and hear your couple phrases that is like oh, that's an engineer phrase, right, and be like that, that's just how you are, and it's like, no, there's, there's a whole range of different aspects to us and so it was cool seeing those come out from you.

Speaker 1: 1:24:39

When the selection of songs it helps to that right Like I've got boats to build is almost an engineer song right Like it is an engineer Like he's talking about building boards and a plan. He's got this design and functionally it's an engineering song right, like there'd be Buffett now in Jackson. We're playing engineer that day. But then also you got like Bob Marley, who probably more on the artistic side than and the ability to choose songs, you know, helping Using a part one. So Characteristics in a non-threatening, non-judgmental way.

Speaker 4: 1:25:25

So yeah, pretty cool, pretty Got a Got engineer Ben, and then you've got Zen Ben.

Speaker 2: 1:25:34

Surfer Ben.

Speaker 1: 1:25:37

Just put me on the water and I'll be yeah.

Speaker 4: 1:25:42

No, dude, you got boats to build. My friend Got boats to build, yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:25:47

Looking forward to have you Awesome.

Speaker 2: 1:25:49

Have you designed any surfboards? That's the big question. Is an engineer, have you? Have you merged those two worlds or are they separate?

Speaker 1: 1:25:58

Well, I've definitely looked into it. I mean so I don't surf enough to like really be able to Really do it justice, Sure.

Speaker 2: 1:26:08

Like.

Speaker 1: 1:26:09

I definitely have all the tools and, like you know, I'm an aerospace engineer. We could run a CFD analysis and do structural analysis on the foam and the and, like you know, figure out the proper number of sheets and the orientation. The fiberglass right, Like we could engineer this not out of the surfboard. I just haven't had the opportunity yet.

Speaker 2: 1:26:32

I'm so glad you nerded out with that, because that's what I was. I wasn't hoping for it. I try and not ask questions with a hope for an answer, but I definitely wanted to. You know, yeah, have you go off in the engineering side? Yeah, that would be for that.

Speaker 1: 1:26:45

No, right now I'm just building AI models. That's fun too. I'd really do enjoy Cool, all right.

Speaker 4: 1:26:58

So, ben. So, with all of our interviews, you know, toward the end, as we start to kind of, you know, wind things down, wrap things up, we do what's called a lightning round.

Speaker 3: 1:27:09

So this round.

Speaker 4: 1:27:11

That's right. I hope you can navigate.

Speaker 2: 1:27:16

We hook electrodes up to you and then answer questions under duress.

Speaker 4: 1:27:23

The storms are coming, no kidding. So yeah, so for this lightning round, we'd love to know what is your first, your last and your best concert, or favorite concert First, last and best slash favorite.

Speaker 1: 1:27:39

All right. So my first concert was in middle school. Walt Disney World had once a year this thing called Night of Joy where it was a big Christian music themed night and they bring in various Christian artists, rock and you know, Christian pop, music, black, and they'd have stages. You just ride the ride, listen to Christian music. And so back in sixth or seventh grade the band I was allowed to listen to was playing and they were called the News Boys. They were amazing at the time. You heard my early introduction to music, yeah, and yeah it's catchy stuff. So it was okay. But that was my first concert was Night of Joy. I only remember what year it would have been now. But yeah, listening to the News Boys, that was the first one.

Speaker 1: 1:28:41

My last one was a pirate metal band Absolutely awesome. That was mind blowingly fun. I had some helps from my friends on that one. Definitely got to go see AL Storm again if they come through town. But anything that's water themed for me is all right in my book. I don't mind some metal, I like metal. That was a lot of fun. Water and rubber ducks. Right yeah, what a niche.

Speaker 1: 1:29:19

Pirate metal. Pirate metal. That's amazing.

Speaker 2: 1:29:24

Do you like Jimmy Buffett? But one, it kicked up a notch Pretty much. Pirate metal yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:29:31

Yes, yeah, yeah, you think Jimmy Buffett's got some slightly off topic songs. Yeah, I haven't seen pirate metal.

Speaker 3: 1:29:43

And I had to clarify. When Raza brought it up, he was like you mean pirates Like R, like a hoi.

Speaker 1: 1:29:47

He was like yo yeah, oh yeah, drop some guitars and some good solid drumming in there, some guy screaming his brains out and a giant duck and it's all good.

Speaker 4: 1:30:02

Yeah, oh, my god. No, that was easily the most insane show I've ever seen in my life. And just fun, just plain old fun, loud metal music. The singer also had plays in accordion and, yeah, guitar solos and glass beats and rubber ducks and you know, audience dressed up as pirates. It was great.

Speaker 2: 1:30:26

Oh, I'm sure that the outfits were amazing.

Speaker 3: 1:30:31

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:30:35

Did you dress up? A couple of us did yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:30:38

Nice. I tried to dress Raza. I gave him an eye patch and like a scarf or something.

Speaker 3: 1:30:45

Oh, are there pictures?

Speaker 4: 1:30:47

Dig up some pictures, maybe for the outtakes episode.

Speaker 2: 1:30:51

That's right. That's right. The year in review yeah.

Speaker 3: 1:30:55

Take one for the team. Let's see the iPad.

Speaker 1: 1:30:58

We need it All right. So that was my last concert. I would have to stay my best concert of all time. I've got a buddy who I grew up with. He's the guy in middle school. We paddled out together, not having a clue. We learned how to surf together. We went to university together. We're still best friends, great friends, to this day. And so a few years ago he's like hey, come on back down to South Florida, we should hang out. He doesn't live in the US anymore. So he's like hey, we should hang out, I'll be in South Florida, come down. He's like oh, and there's a Tom Petty concert. Let's go see a Tom Petty concert with you. And at that concert he told me his wife was expecting and that he wanted me to be the godfather of his son. So that concert right there for me is like you know, peak of the mountain experience. You know, tom Petty, best friend from all time, like going to be his son's godfather, like that was a good time.

Speaker 2: 1:32:01

That's a true. That's awesome.

Speaker 3: 1:32:06

And it was fun yeah. Yeah. That's good stuff. That's great, that is like solid life memory that was right there.

Speaker 2: 1:32:13

Yeah, yeah, that's like the perfect wave.

Speaker 1: 1:32:16

That was one of. That was a perfect way, absolutely.

Speaker 3: 1:32:21

Oh, my goodness, oh, that's so good. Thank you so much, ben, for just like trusting us with your story and your and your deeply personal music, because you know it can be intimidating to share these, these parts of ourselves, with folks, so we really love having you on. Thank you so much.

Speaker 1: 1:32:44

It was my pleasure, like absolutely pleasure. I appreciate the opportunity and this has been a lot of fun. It's been a lot of fun.

Speaker 3: 1:32:52

Awesome. That's good to hear. That's good to hear. I'm glad like it wasn't like too nerve-wracking or anything, because you know you are, you're like sharing vulnerable, so like I love that you enjoy the experience.

Speaker 1: 1:33:02

Yeah, I won't lie, there's a few butterflies. You know there was a little bit of a my day one here, like the process that. I don't know if you guys made it super comfortable and easy and it's just a great experience.

Speaker 3: 1:33:16

Wonderful.

Speaker 1: 1:33:17

That's awesome. It's great.

Speaker 3: 1:33:18

In the last few minutes we have left, just as we kind of sign off with you. If you want to, you know, tell folks what you've got going on. I know you've started a new venture, anything that might be going on interesting in your life and how people can maybe get in contact with you if they want.

Speaker 1: 1:33:34

Sure, yeah. So you know I do AI modeling at this point on LinkedIn. You want to find me, but you know, I guess if I'm going to plug anything, plug this podcast. This thing's awesome. You guys are killing it. So I think you guys have a really solid concept here and it's a lot of fun to watch it evolve and grow. I know it's been really influential, really helpful for me in the last like month or so when I've been going through this process to really reflect on my life through music. So, yeah, I guess I'm going to pump anything. I'm going to pump this webcast podcast.

Speaker 3: 1:34:15

Thank you, thank you for that.

Speaker 2: 1:34:18

Put that in the show notes. Everyone says Ben.

Speaker 1: 1:34:21

Ben says You've got to check out the episodes and watch it. I'll spread the word.

Speaker 4: 1:34:28

Oh man, Thank you.

Speaker 2: 1:34:30

Yeah, thank you, ben. Thank you, like Carolina said, this was great. Thank you for trusting us with your story and you know all of that. Yeah, really really good. So, folks out there, you heard it from Ben, it's a good experience, you know. Yes, apprehension beforehand, but, like most good endeavors, if you have that apprehension or nervousness beforehand, it's a sign you're doing something good. So, yeah, definitely come on if we ask, because it's good, like and subscribe, spread the word. You know we want to get to people that you know would enjoy this and would benefit from hearing. So if you know of someone in your life who you think could be, you know could benefit from hearing these stories and maybe thinking about their own life in this way, you know, let them know. We will see you next time.