Dr. Heather Gessling – A New Era of Wellness: Private Memberships, Nutrition's Triumph Over Pharma, and the Launch of Healing United

Embark with us on a transformative journey as Dr. Heather Gessling and I reunite to unravel the intricacies of a healthcare system ripe for renewal. Witness the birth of Healing United, a holistic alliance that promises to reshape how we approach wellness, and learn about the incredible power held within the Spike Shield supplement, specifically crafted for those affected by covid injections. With our upcoming Pharma Free Living series teasing the horizon, we're poised to guide you through a medical renaissance, where informed autonomy and alternative therapies take center stage.

Step into the world of medicine where the once sidelined hero, nutrition, is now front and center, challenging the pharmaceutical narrative that has long dominated our approach to chronic illness. Dr. Gessling's awakening to the profound potential of dietary wisdom, sparked by the pandemic's spotlight on nutrient-related conditions, will inspire you to reconsider how we've been addressing health. Together with Dr. Gessling, we share a heartfelt discussion on the necessity of integrating traditional and alternative practices to foster a deeper, more compassionate connection with our patients.

In this episode, we transcend the traditional bounds of medicine, embracing a collaborative spirit that unites doctors and holistic practitioners alike. As we introduce the innovative concept of a Private Membership Association, we invite you to join a community dedicated to the 'Whole Person Approach to Healing.' Here, we are more than physicians; we are educators, coaches, and unwavering advocates for your health autonomy, and we're on a mission to empower you with the knowledge and tools to spark personal breakthroughs for a vibrant, pharmaceutical-free life.

RESOURCES MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE

• Previous interview with Dr. Gessling
• Deconstructing Conventional Medicine Podcast episode
• Spike Shield supplement
• DetoxU Workshop
• Healing United PMA

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:33

Hello and welcome to episode number 31. I have a special treat for you today. My guest is once again Dr Heather Gessling. You may remember my first interview with her about dissolving medical illusions and in that previous episode we talked about her journey of awakening to really the ugly, history and weaponization of her profession. We talked about what it was like being fired from a major hospital for having the audacity to treat patients during the height of the COVID hysteria, and so if you want to know more about her background, you can go check out that previous interview and I'll link that in the show notes for you.

Speaker 1: 1:05

But this episode was especially fun for me because I got to tell the story of the first time I met her and the giant pattern interrupt moment I had in doing so and I didn't really have a category for a practicing doctor like her she just would not fit in any of my stereotypical boxes. So if you're familiar with my work then you know I'm not shy about throwing the medical system under the bus or pointing out the illogical underpinnings of cut, burn and poison and how the system often harms people instead of helping them. And, by the way, if what I just said feels like hyperbole and you think I'm a crazy man. You might check out episode number two, where I deconstruct the history of what we have come to call conventional medicine, given up on them or is only offering the pharmaceutical escalation ladder or the kind of the body part removal service. And it's usually right before or after that point that people who become clients finally hit the place of awakening where they realize they need a different approach. And in getting to know Dr Gisling, she had been through her own similar awakening. Despite her and I coming from very different backgrounds. We had this instant bond of like oh, you get it, we were speaking the same language from our first conversation. So to me she sets the standards for what a medical doctor should be or could be. And if you're someone who feels like you kind of have to engage the medical system, or especially if you feel that way and you've become disillusioned with it and you just crave some perspective on how to navigate it or disentangle from it, I think hearing from Dr Gessling will give you a new set of lenses to know that really what you're looking for from that profession and when to just walk away from it because it doesn't have the capacity to see you or serve you.

Speaker 1: 2:51

We also talked in this episode about where she fit into the process of what I was working on creating a program to help people detox and heal from the COVID injections and how her graciousness with my incessant questions really turned into extended conversations and a budding collaboration between her and I and other doctors and we all just realized that we had something to learn from each other. And really I guess the short version of that divine appointment of meeting her, it led to a vision of a kind of a rebirth and redefinition of the word healthcare and we've had so much fun and found so much mutual benefit collaborating across these typically siloed disciplines of the medical world and the alternative world and the health coaching world and we've actually formed a holistic partnership that we're calling Healing United and we think it's something the world sorely needs. So you get a little peek into a whole different way to find help for your health in this episode. But we also talked about her background in building supplements for specific conditions and how that led to a new supplement we announced right here on the podcast called Spike Shield. She came to me with the idea of building our own supplement as an upgrade to a previous product she had created to help people who were either injured by the COVID injections or maybe they were reluctantly forced to take it and they're nervous about the long-term effects. So we talked about also what we had to do to figure out a way to create a multi-discipline approach to healthcare and why we had to establish something called a private membership association. And, fun fact, we set up Healing United as a ministry, which opens up even more ways we can speak freely and help people.

Speaker 1: 4:23

So anyway, this episode is I guess it's almost the classic a doctor and a coach logged into a Zoom meeting and this is what happened next. So really neither of us could have guessed what would unfold in getting to meet each other. But welcome to a fresh vision of what healthcare could be, welcome to a window into a new and growing network of doctors and coaches who actually work together and share the same value. So I'll have links in the show notes to what we're up to in case you want to check it out. And one last thing I'll say is stay tuned in the future for some fascinating conversations. We're calling Pharma Free Living, where we will discuss specific medications and help you have awareness of what they're doing in your body and how you might wean yourself off of them. And, by the way, this was her idea. Like I told you, where do you find a medical doctor who does that publicly? But if you want to ensure that you don't miss out on those conversations, just make sure you are subscribed to our mailing list. You can opt in at truewholehumancom or you can go to healingunitedtoday and opt in there. You can find the form to opt in on the footer of either site.

Speaker 1: 5:22

Okay, without further ado, enjoy my conversation with Dr Heather Gessling. All right, hello everyone. Welcome to today's episode. We have a unique one for you today, dr Gessling, and I thought we'd do a little just how we got here, summary kind of story of what we've been up to and some of the almost like lets you in on some of our conversations of how we got to do the work we do and the collaboration that we are now a part of. So anyway, welcome back, dr Gessling. Nice to have you with us again today.

Speaker 1: 5:55

Thanks for having me back to have you with us again today. Thanks for having me back. Yeah, buddy, okay, so we met I don't know, it's closing in on a year ago now, something like that where I was just introduced to you because I was working on a project to try to do my best as a coach with a sacred duty to help people heal, to make a statement about my best understanding of how to help people heal from the COVID injections, and that turned into a monstrous research project beyond anything I imagined because of the still the things we don't know about what's in them or the mechanisms of harm or long-term effects and the breadth of adverse events people are experiencing. There's just so much there, and so I got introduced to you as someone who could help me get my head around more of the physiology of the spike protein and what it was doing in the body or how it might be able to be neutralized or blunted or help people heal from it. And so you were just gracious enough to let me in on all that you had studied and researched and speed up my learning process, which was super helpful, and I remember our first conversation. I just went straight to the bottom of the rabbit hole with you like okay, so are these things? Do we agree about these? And we just went. If you guys have listened to any of our other podcasts or the episodes I've done, you know I like to deconstruct, I like to rewind history, I like to look at how in the world did we get here, how did they pull off this op? And so I just went through. So we've got kind of an ugly malice agenda going on. We've got weaponized medicine. I went just through the breadth of how this whole COVID op happened and you're like yep, yep, yep, just check mark all the way through, which for me was so comforting. I'm like wait a minute, hang on. And then, as I got to know you and I got to hear your perspectives on things, not only were we in agreement with so many of the elements of what happened in world events, but then philosophically which for me I have to admit, was a gigantic pattern, interrupt.

Speaker 1: 7:52

I wasn't used to I don't know if I've ever met a medical doctor. I have. I've kind of had this jaded look at them and like, yeah, approach everything with an MD with skepticism, just because of what I've learned about the profession. And I meet you and it's like hang on. I didn't have a category to put you in. You think holistically. You have you incorporate healing modalities into your practice. It's not just here, I'm not just a drug dispenser or refer you to a specialist who can operate on you.

Speaker 1: 8:19

You read research and you do it with discernment and you look for it Like there might be agendas here. You do research to build supplements. I'm like what doctor does that? You talk about diet and lifestyle with people which, for those who don't know, doctors don't really get any nutritional training. But yet you've dove into that and you understand that. You help people deprescribe or get off medications. You actually have a copy of it. I found this out not the first conversation, but later. You have a copy of the Drug-Induced Nutrient Depletion Handbook in both your clinics and refer to it and actually help people understand what medications are doing in their body. You're someone who openly questions vaccines, not like in the closet private conversation like but you'll openly say there's some stuff here that just doesn't make sense. You're not afraid to talk about fax injury and you help people have confidence to take agency and, if need be, have hard conversations with their other doctors or stand up for themselves.

Speaker 1: 9:12

Who is this woman? And then you, let me challenge you. But somehow there's this you didn't let your education get in the way of learning. There's no defensiveness with you, there's just an eagerness to learn and a humble. You'll spar with me, but not in a combative sense, just a iron sharpens iron.

Speaker 1: 9:29

And the more I got to know you, the more I just became wowed by who is this person and so gracious to just sit and tolerate or help me with my technical questions and come to understand other things.

Speaker 1: 9:43

So I just, I guess for I wanted the listeners of the people who start to see what we're up to to know what a unicorn Dr Gessling is, how helpful she is and how holistically she thinks and how much she actually takes seriously the do no harm element of her profession, and not only that. We share values from faith and from family and so on. And it just became special really quickly the type of rapport and relationship we had. So that was my take on getting to know you and how some of the just the graciousness you lend. We'll talk about the story a little more in a second, but flip the script for a second for us and tell people what it was like to find like this. What's your perspective on finding some obscure health coach tucked away on the internet somewhere? And how in the world did we become fast friends? What was it about collaborating with me that became interesting to you?

Speaker 2: 10:36

Well, there is so many things along the way of your words just now that I feel like I want to touch on, I don't want to forget each of those aspects and that was such a kind summary of you know, your impressions about who I am, who I am as a doctor, who I am as a person, as a Christian, as somebody who cares about humanity, and I feel like all of that, all of the aspects, are really just because the Lord has led me down that path, path and I've been humble enough to be open to what he's showing me, instead of just relying on my training or MD or, you know, heal.

Speaker 2: 11:39

The concept of healing is was a mind blowing concept to me, because I thought I healed and then, when I realized I didn't heal, then I had to figure out how I, how I had to heal my patients instead of just treat them. The concept of nutrition in medical school, as you mentioned, is non-existent. It's non-existent. And in fact it's even belittled or you know sort of degraded as a concept.

Speaker 1: 12:14

Yeah, it's almost like it's that's for people who aren't smart enough to get into medical school is kind of yeah, I get sometimes.

Speaker 2: 12:22

Or that our food is so awesome that really nobody needs to worry about nutrition, because, I mean, it's you know the 21st century. Our food is great and it's not. Of course, it's depleted and even the fortification of it can be harmful to individuals, especially if you have, like, a MTHFR mutation. And so whenever I started realizing back in 2020, about who was most susceptible to morbidity or mortality from the COVID infection, and realizing it was those with chronic illnesses, and then realizing those chronic illnesses were tied to nutrient deficiencies, and then realized one of the reasons why hydroxychloroquine works is because of being able to help bring zinc into the cell, and that zinc nutrition or zinc deficiency was related to diabetes, all of it was just like fireworks in my brain. I thought I'm missing something. I have been missing something for a long time about nutrition and how to fight infection or heal or reverse bit.

Speaker 2: 13:38

Back in 2021, I met Dr Jana Schmidt. She's a really, really amazing and good friend of mine. She's a naturopathic doctor. I remember sitting at a table at a conference we were at together, her and her husband, and I told her that I was envious of her degree, I was envious of her naturopathic training, I was envious of her understanding of nutrition and really healing modalities that I wasn't taught in medical school and that was a big step for me because, MDs have a chip on their shoulder.

Speaker 2: 14:16

Really, I mean, they have this like we know more, we're smarter, we have it all figured out, we're the scientific ones. And so whenever I said that to her, I remember feeling sort of freed or humbled from my degree. My, from my degree, like this is this is not where it's at. I mean I can use my degree to help people and use my knowledge with. We were talking about this, you and I yesterday about the knowledge required, knowledge of like biochemistry, pathophysiology, anatomy, all of that. I can use all of that but at the same time, recognize that my training of using pharmaceuticals and medications to treat, instead of realizing what's needed to heal there's good aspects and bad aspects of that education and use the good, use my reputation, use my degree to help people in a trust aspect where you know they kind of want that MD.

Speaker 2: 15:17

Some patients kind of want that MD, kind of want that background, but at the same time they know that I'm not going to be using pharmaceuticals unnecessarily and in fact, like you said, getting patients off of medication, deprescribing those medications, the complexity of medications and what they do to as a harmful thing to you and not just treating a certain condition, but as an overall systemic harm, is a fascinating line of interest or attention that we should, we should understand, which is that pharmaceuticals harm us in general.

Speaker 2: 15:58

Most pharmaceuticals have very detrimental effects to the efficiency of our cells nutrient absorption, affecting other body systems, and that concept is not well discussed or understood and I think it should be pursued.

Speaker 2: 16:18

Discussed or understood, and I think it should be pursued. I think patients should understand that taking a pill does not only convey some sort of single benefit, but it can also cause harm in so many other ways to their body. Whenever I met you, there was such a appreciation of your ability to understand health and wellness without a formal degree or education and opening up the concept of somebody that doesn't necessarily have a medical license or degree, or even in any type of license in the healthcare field, can do more benefit, can help a patient, help a client or a person more than a medical professional that gets. That got me very excited, because not only were our conversations deep and complex and the ability to hash out things in order to get to the bottom of what's necessary to heal a patient, but also your understanding was extensive enough that I trusted your ability to be a match with me in in learning, researching and educating those around us to to make, to do good and to be a blessing.

Speaker 1: 17:54

Yeah, well, well, thank you, and that's the first time I've heard this too, so I appreciate you just laying out what what stood out and that there's. I guess one of the things I appreciate so much about spending time with you is just the. I guess I hope it's true that people would say the mutual humility that we both have, that neither of us knows everything. We're smarter together than we are separate. And there's that neither of us knows everything. We're smarter together than we are separate, and there's so much upside to challenging each other. I kind of imagine this is what healthcare could have been all along. This is what it's meant to be. The scientific method is supposed to say what's your best idea and let me see if I can poke holes in it, and we go both ways on that and it's helped me be a better coach and see things with more clarity and I feel like it goes both ways and I think that's been some of what was fun. Is that somehow your reputation, your, your practice got your patient base, got benefit from some of these more holistic concepts and zooming out and not missing the plot or getting down the weeds of biochemistry and realizing this person's lonely or thirsty or needs a hug or their diet's terrible or they haven't moved in a week and and all the things that are so oh yeah, duh, there's that too, and and they're more top of mind and um. So I guess where we went with that is, over time, enough of these conversations where we both feel like we're growing, having this recognition that, geez, this is, this is more fun and the collaboration is um helpful. And to your point about both of us have a network of people you know the naturopath that you mentioned and I've got a whole host of friends in the, I guess, what could be broadly termed the alternative health space or the coaching health space and people who have different abilities for different types of situations and pooling those resources and connecting. And so we ended up having conversations with three or four of us or multiple people on the calls at once and being able to collaborate at even more depth and watch people's eyebrows raise and light up and see the possibilities of what could be.

Speaker 1: 19:49

And I came I don't know who had the idea where we came of it first, but the idea of like, what if we formed another entity? What if we did something? And so the short version of that story is. We came up with a new entity we call Healing United, which is basically it's doctors and coaches in collaboration and doctors is expanded to be more than just medical. It's medical and alternative and coaching combined.

Speaker 1: 20:09

It's almost this fun three-stranded cord that adds such a wealth or breadth of ability to help somebody and to say here's the angle I would come at this with and how would you help? And even just to know, I've got a phone call I can make if I'm stuck on a particular issue, what would you do? How would you help this person reframe this mentally? Or how would you help this person know what to say to their doctor? What other healing modality have we not thought of? And to see other people who have a specialization come together and compare notes has been so much fun. I've never enjoyed my work as much as I have since you entered the picture. So anything you want to add about the element of Healing United and what we're up to or things I didn't cover in that short story there.

Speaker 2: 20:55

I think that Healing United is a paradigm shift for the good as far as understanding what it takes to to have the scope necessary to really heal. I mean, we're in such a complex state of the world and of medicine and of health right now because of harm, because of intentional harm done to us that through the, through the injections, through the man-made viruses, that I don't think that there's really a box that we can fit everything perfectly in to get to the bottom of things. And so this is the, I feel like as good as we can get to try and figure out how to approach our current situation, which is kind of scary it's. It's been in my practice over the last. I remember sitting in a in a patient, in an exam room with a patient, in May of 2021, and having this epiphany, this moment that, whoa, everything I thought I knew on how to treat patients because of this injection, because of the introduction of this injection to a patient's system, everything I thought I knew on how to approach things is is it seemed worthless, like I had this moment where I truly felt like what I knew was worthless and so being able to come together with with your skills and with skills of other healthcare professionals or alternative medicine professionals and with the arm of that you know three-legged stool, or leg of that three-legged stool being a medical degree.

Speaker 2: 23:12

Mainstream medical education, I feel like, is as complete as we're going to get, but at the same time having the humbleness, like you said, to listen to each other and not be closed off about the concepts.

Speaker 2: 23:30

I mean, you and I have had some, I feel like, some really good conversations that can sometimes get a little bit like we're like no, I'm right, no, you're right, no, I'm not, or we go back and forth and but still, you know there, but, but at the but, at the end, I think we're both then saying, oh wait, I now see what you're saying. It sometimes takes some intensity for those, those thought patterns to really be disrupted, because we, because it for survival in our careers we have to know what we're talking about, we have to know how to proceed. And so when you get challenged by some of the other thought patterns, you have to be willing to look at it, look at it from that angle, look at it from that light and say, oh, I get it now. Yeah, and when you do, that's where I feel like clarity, breakthroughs, true transformation can happen where we can help the patient or the customer.

Speaker 1: 24:44

Yeah, yeah, I remember years ago I read a book. It was so affirming to me when I read it. It's called Range. I think they may have changed the subtitle, but the one I had when I read it was why Generalists Thrive in a Specialized World, and the title of the book Range being able to see with range.

Speaker 1: 25:02

One of the things that came home to me in that was how much it helps to have minds outside of the particular discipline.

Speaker 1: 25:10

Look at the same problem with you, because they just bring a completely different frame of reference to help you see something that to them was obvious but that it never occurred to you before.

Speaker 1: 25:19

And I think that's we've both had several of those episodes where, like now that I can see it through that lens, there's something else I was missing and it's that made me just more interested in expanding the range and having more opinions and and the humility to say, or just the welcomed gosh, what else do I not know? Like I want to hear somebody else challenge me here, Like find a hole in this thing, rather than having that be an assault on my intelligence, or put me in box and talk me down and tell me that I can't think that way or that I'm just wrong to have somebody like yourself or others we've talked to say here's the perspective I bring and here's maybe something that you hadn't thought of has been. I guess it takes a level of being difficult to offend and being able to set your ego aside and be like okay, hang on, I don't know everything, let me see. And but to to also find somebody else who is can play defense without being defensive or can play offense without being offensive, that is so good statement.

Speaker 2: 26:20

I love that.

Speaker 1: 26:21

It's been fun to be able to do that, and I found that in you and I. I just for humanity's sake, thank you. It's maybe a better coach, but it's. It helps me take concepts to somebody who was going to bring a skepticism to them. And also, when I throw my best arguments at you and you're like, yeah, I can't poke a hole in that, it's like, okay, good, it's affirming that I might be on the right track and have something genuinely helpful to offer here. So, anyway, thank you for that and anything else to add before I switch to another part of the story. No, I think, I think I'm good on that, okay, cool.

Speaker 1: 26:59

So one of the things that was happening in your life when we met was that you were wrapping up your time at the wellness company or TWC, and what came to light is that you had built their supplement line.

Speaker 1: 27:08

You were the one that kind of did the research and figured out what need, what formulations seem to be the most helpful for dealing with a spike protein in particular, or dealing with some of the downstream adverse events from people who took the COVID injection, and so that became a project. As you were leaving there, you had the idea that you brought to me. It's like I think I could, now that I've done more research, I think I could actually make a better supplement than what was there and they're not interested in doing it and would you want to make one? And I was like what? I've never done this before. I have no idea what's going on and it turns out we've had to integrate six different companies into the effort to source and have a simple buy button where people can get this. But rewind the story a little bit. Tell us about where you were in that journey, what it was like making the first supplements and what ideas you had for making the new ones or any other parts of that story you want to tell.

Speaker 2: 28:03

Yeah, yeah, I would love to tell that. So it was summer, spring, late spring, early summer of 2022 that me and Dr Jana Schmidt, dr Jen Vandewater, worked hours and hours throughout that sorry, it got loud throughout that summer to develop the supplement line, the product line. There was one or two that were already formulated by some of the other physicians that were on the board at the time, but the rest were really our brain childs and our hard work and research to put together that, including the spike supplement. They have Um and so, as things change throughout the year of 2023, several of the of the medical board members or the medical support um professionals that were part of the wellness company left that company, including me, and around the time that I was leaving, I had we had I had shared with them that we could update that formula and they weren't really interested.

Speaker 2: 29:25

So it was a perfect time and opportunity to to do that on our own. I think that that was a blessing to be able to say, oh well, let's just get this done on our own. I think that that was a blessing to be able to say, oh well, let's just get this done on our own. Like you said, it hasn't been. It's not taking. That step was not absolutely simple and we're still finished putting the finishing touches on that, but excited to bring that formula, that low cost, that simplicity, to our customers and patients.

Speaker 1: 29:54

Yeah Well, tell them a little bit about what makes that product so special. So the product's called Spike Shield and you ended up narrowing it down to six key ingredients. So tell us a little bit about what's in it and what makes it so potent.

Speaker 2: 30:09

Yeah. So the two I feel like the two most important components of the formula are the proteolytic enzymes, first one being natokinase. And proteolytic enzyme means an enzyme that breaks down protein. Lytic means to break something down, lysate, and so proteolytic enzymes can break down proteins, and so proteolytic enzymes can break down proteins.

Speaker 2: 30:55

What we know is that spike protein although I know we don't have to get you know to a point where we say with absolute certainty that somebody is making spike protein in their body or that the vaccine encodes for spike protein what we know is that there are inflammatory proteins being produced in patients post-vax, potentially long-haul COVID or post-COVID and they're creating and it's causing problems. It's causing inflammatory problems in the vasculature, it's causing clots, clots that are not necessarily just fibrin clots but also these proteinaceous amyloid type clots. We have in vitro preclinical research that shows that natto kinase can break down spike protein, which is most likely indefinitely being made by patients that have had that injection, that mRNA or even DNA injection. And so we want to be able to break down that spike protein because it's pathologic. Pathologic means not good. It's bad for your body, creating that inflammation leading to clots, leading to really your body rejecting those cells that are producing spike and creating autoimmune conditions. So if spike can be broken down which we have a couple of studies that show that it can be broken down, by natokinase In particular, there's some other proteolytic enzymes that will probably do the same, potentially lumbrokinase or some others, but also bromelain, which we put in that formula. There's research that shows that bromelain can have that impact as well. There is also research that shows that dandelion root can help block spike from attaching to the ACE receptors. So we added dandelion root to that and I feel like that. That's a overall very beneficial supplement for many reasons.

Speaker 2: 32:56

When we develop this supplement, when I develop this new supplement, the concept is that with every piece of information that we currently have, this supplement can help. This supplement can help. But even if somehow we find out oh, maybe somebody's not making that protein indefinitely or maybe something else is going on what we, what the attempt was, was to make it beneficial and broad enough that it can, it can still attack all of the bad things that are happening post-vax really, almost no matter what route that they're happening, and that was. I mean, it's kind of magical in that way, and so one of the other things that is beneficial in the supplement is black cumin seed, which has a potent anti-inflammatory effect along with curcumin, and so we know patients are inflamed and so we have that in there.

Speaker 2: 34:09

Black pepper can potentiate the effects of the curcumin and it also can be beneficial, so we have that. So the point being whether, whether or not we have every single thing perfect, which is one of the one of the time consuming processes that you and I have gone through to try and get it as right as we can, based off of the information that's out there. No matter what, this supplement can be beneficial for those who've taken the vaccine, for those who are worried about shedding and exposure to the vaccine, for those who have long haul COVID symptoms, for those who have current COVID symptoms, for those who have current viral symptoms. All of those ingredients, those herbs, can help, or proteolytic enzymes can help.

Speaker 1: 35:01

Yeah, fantastic, and that's really what was fun about just watching you. Here's another research study and come up with how would we create this? And what I do as a coach is I have to step back and look at how do I support the body? I can't treat anything, I don't prescribe things, I just say what does the body need in order to function optimally and what things are gunking up the engine and getting in the way and keeping it from being able to heal, and we kind of just checked those boxes as we went through that process of it can do all of those.

Speaker 1: 35:31

And so you mentioned people who've taken the shot, people who have experienced, who haven't taken it, but maybe they've experienced symptoms by being around. Those who have. What we now know is something that's called shedding, which the FDA lists as a side effect of all other gene therapies. So some of them are Luxturna, roctavian and Zolgensma. All have shedding on the list of things that are side effects from them. And if you're somebody who's experienced something like that I didn't take it, somebody else did. Now I have symptoms this would be something that could help in that instance.

Speaker 1: 36:01

And then we also thought, okay, if there are other mRNA products that end up creating pathologies or pathologic proteins or give the body an inflammatory burden. If there's other products like that that go mainstream, whether it's food I don't know how many people know how thorough they are in trying to get mrna into everything's food, air, water. I read something yesterday they're trying to vaccinate trees now to help the cocoa plant survive. It's like. Whatever the problem is in society, the answer is a vaccine. It's just this weird. You know, hell-b bent on making sure we use mRNA for everything. So, depending on what they roll out, this would be a way to help them, kind of no matter what that is, but in a more targeted way, the best shot we have to know this would be something that a lot of different boxes or a lot of different uses would be available for. So anything else I missed in that summary there.

Speaker 2: 36:58

No, I mean, that's really what we were thinking of, you know, to try and make it as broad as possible in order to be as helpful as possible and as foundational with the ingredients you know, so that the body could use it to route it in any way it needs. And that's what we want, and that's the foundation of our detox. You is to figure out the basics.

Speaker 2: 37:22

I mean, we, we, we can talk about that and explain that more, but the basics is to develop the foundation, whether or not it's through some basic herbal supplements or basic nutrition, basic modalities to help the body heal, and so I feel like that our Spike Shield product is really a good representative of our philosophy.

Speaker 1: 37:47

Yeah, yeah, it really is. Is there any reason in your mind that someone wouldn't take it Like? What are some indications where it would be maybe contraindicated? Are there any?

Speaker 2: 37:55

Yeah, there are. Actually, I would say, if somebody has a propensity for bleeding, if they're already on three or if they're already on anticoagulants some patients are even on triple therapy If they haveots that are really stubborn or have had recurrent cardiovascular issues despite being on anticoagulation, with thrombus or clots, this is probably not a great idea. It could be. I mean, I know that there hasn't been any evidence of increased bleeding from these supplements. Necessarily, natokinase, as I mentioned earlier, is a proteolytic enzyme. One of the things that can break down is spike, through research that we have. But another thing that it can break down that we've known for years and one of the reasons why we put it in our original formula, is that it breaks down fibrin, and fibrin is what contributes to clot formation. Fibrin aggregation is what contributes to clot formation. Now I think that fibrin aggregation in those that have had the vaccine can be potentially just one of the first steps. But then I think that there is this protein component of developing these long tails, these amyloid type protein clots, which also there's research that shows that natokinase can break down amyloid and that's listed in our aggregation of research. But so I would say, if you have a propensity to bleeding. Not a good idea. I wouldn't take it if you're pregnant. I wouldn't take it if you have an allergy to soy. Technically, natokinase is supposed to be soy free, but we do have anecdotal stories of patients who have soy allergies and they take it and they still have. They know that they're having an allergic reaction. Um, there may be some other things that I'm forgetting, um, but I would you're, you're welcome. I would advise that you're probably going to need to talk to your healthcare professional or doctor before you start it. Good luck.

Speaker 2: 40:12

If they're going to know what those things are, though, and they're're going to and they're probably going to just tell you don't take it because they don't know. I mean, I have patients that the stories that I get, when patients come in and tell me, when they tell them what vitamins that tell us best for us, what vitamins they're taking, very frequently that specialist will just say stop taking those. They won't even look to see what they are or what, what their mechanism of action is or how they can benefit the patient. They just say stop taking them. And then the patient comes back to me and I'm like, yeah, they don't even know what they're doing. They don't even know what those things are doing. So you know you can.

Speaker 2: 40:53

I were supposed to say you have to talk to your healthcare professional, and the reason why I'm going to say that is because maybe you do have a contraindication and maybe your physician would know that natokinase can break down fibrin and it may not be so good for you. Any of the other components that are in there. Bromelain is just another digestive enzyme, proteolytic enzyme. It doesn't have as much potent effect against fibrin as far as I know, and then dandelion root and bromelain, cumin seed, black pepper. I don't think there's really much contraindication to those other than if you have a known allergy.

Speaker 1: 41:25

Yeah, yep, and so just there you have the caveats or the reason behind. Talk to some other, get other opinions to weigh in on this, but at the end of the day, I think we're both big proponents of you having agency and making your own choices, and we're giving you the best information we have. And so you are really. You take all this information at your own risk, but you don't be shy to exercise your own option to choose what you put in your body, and if you feel like the advice you're being given from anywhere feels off, then just go with that. There's something about your gut instinct that it's either asking you to learn or it's telling you, for a good reason, to stay away from something.

Speaker 2: 42:01

So, yeah, we want to touch on that too, because really that's a growth that patients need.

Speaker 2: 42:08

That's a part of themselves that patients need to build up and exercise and grow, which is the agency and autonomy, because if they don't feel like they have that, then they're not going to be making decisions for the right reasons, they're going to be taking potentially bad advice, they're going to be doing things that go against their gut on what's good for them. They have to feel free to be able to do what is best for them despite a specialist pushing that or their primary pushing something.

Speaker 1: 42:36

Yeah, and one thing I love about you and I do frequently in my own work is just giving people confidence and language and rationale for their perspective and being able to stand in the fire a little bit and realize you're okay with it. Like I can entertain a doctor's perspective and that doesn't mean I have to accept it, I don't dismiss it, but it doesn't. If you get a doctor that makes you feel small or talks down at you or things like that, that's typically where I'm more on like we might want to find a different doctor. You shouldn't be made to feel belittled or ridiculed for having a fair question when you go to talk to a doctor. So yeah, and I know that people don't get that from you- no, they don't get it from me.

Speaker 2: 43:17

But you know, I mean they may have gotten that from me years ago, you know, just because I had such confidence in my views before I really, really questioned my views. And also, we were taught in medical school different approaches to being a doctor. We were even we were taught sort of the different approaches through the decades of how MDs approach their patients and, you know, including like a paternalistic view where you basically you decide what's best for them and you control the data and you control the information, the flow of information to them.

Speaker 2: 43:50

Maybe they you think they can't handle all the information, so you don't tell them all the information. I mean all of these views were discussed and taught not necessarily as right, but discussed in medical school, as when you are a MD, you can hold the cards. You sort of hold control which is not right.

Speaker 2: 44:10

I mean that that's really that concept is wrong. It should be a partnership and I really, as an MD, have always sort of held that view that my treatment of the patient or interaction with the patient should be a partnership. We should discuss all the factors, we should discuss all the information, we should discuss all the possibilities and then come together and make that decision based off of what they feel comfortable with, maybe what they're financially able to do. Also, you know that a lot of times isn't taken into account or what they feel like is a good next step for them, dependent on all of the environmental factors or situational factors or whatever's going on in their life at the time.

Speaker 1: 44:59

Well, I think I had never heard of it till you just said or thought of it, but it's almost like you had this grab bag persuasion course that you were kind of given subtly through the medical training of here's how to handle the objections or here's how to maintain your air of the authority in this arena and almost keep the patient from having that sense of like a peer relationship where you're both trying to solve the same puzzle and bringing your perspectives to it.

Speaker 2: 45:28

Yeah, yeah. And that concept of authority is what has become so damaging to people in almost any area of their life concept, concept of authority within medicine, concept of, really, I think, a wrong concept of authority within religion and churches, a wrong concept of authority within relationships. I think you have to have autonomy and agency of your own self to be healthy, not dysfunctional, not feel controlled, and make good decisions.

Speaker 1: 45:59

Yeah, and now you guys know more about why I like her so much. It's amazing to meet somebody refreshingly interested in people as you are. So all right, well, two other things we'll touch on before we wrap up here. So you had hinted at that we have a course called Detox you, and so it really is meant to be paired with, or be a complement to, the Spike Shield supplement we talked about.

Speaker 1: 46:20

There's so much more to healing than what people can swallow, and we wanna make sure we always bring that to light and that we don't get stuck in the reductionist little tiny sliver, these parallel trenches of everything has a biochemical solution and we can just play biochemical whack-a-mole and somebody will get well, it really is about the whole person and what's going on in their life and the habits they do or don't have, and the recognition that we cannot cheat the biological laws of physics. And when we don't have the basics down water and air and food and exercise and stress management and sleep if we're not doubling down on those, it's probably not going to matter what we swallow. If you're a dehydrated, constipated, pessimistic couch potato, it's probably not going to make much difference what pill you take. And so, recognizing that there's so much more to the healing puzzle and that, at the end of the day, heather and I are not healers. Actually we're just teachers. We help collaborate and think with you and the body's doing the work healing and our job is to just steward what we know and help you find the right questions so you can come up with the right answers for your own health.

Speaker 1: 47:21

And so that course detox you is. It's a two day course that we put together. It's just a free gift to say we are here to be helpful, and if you have learned everything you need to know from us, you have our blessing. And if you're interested in more help, we can talk about that too. So it's really figuring out that one. We want it to be able to collaborate. We want it to be able to build a supplement that we could talk about, because there's other things the FDA is really particular about what you can and can't say, and you better not say the wrong thing, because we own the rights to the words cure, treat, prevent, mitigate, ameliorate, so on.

Speaker 1: 47:53

And then you so the linguistic handcuffs they put you in, and then the realization that we want to be able to to put on different hats. We want to put on the, the coach hat, the doctor hat, the alternative hat. We want to. I want to be able to put on my pastor hat. I want to be able to put on my other skill sets as a life coach and as a project management and to help people with emotional and relational skills.

Speaker 1: 48:14

And how in the world do we package that? And it became we had to step back and say what kind of organization can you possibly form in order to be able to do that for people? And where we ended up with was a private membership association which really kind of to be able to say we're going to take this stuff off the record and we're going to have private meetings and we're going to do this as members and be able to just speak freely and help you like we would a friend or family member. So tell people a little bit about what a PMA is or how. We kind of came to that conclusion at any color of something I might've missed.

Speaker 2: 48:47

Yeah, I'm going to speak first to your how we would speak to a friend or family member, which I think is so important, because how we speak to a friend or family member is out of love and that's how I speak to my patients, and I think that's how you speak to your clients, and I feel like this project is a work of love, to be able to utilize the talents and skills that the Lord has given us to help with healing.

Speaker 2: 49:16

The PMA concept is, I feel, like a component that allows us a little bit more freedom, you know, a little bit outside of the constraints of some perceived rules, regulations, whatever within our within, like my medical society, or whatever where we feel limited. Pma allows for more freedom of decision-making, thought and you know, different things that we want to pursue, and I feel like it also is a concept of a group, a unified group that is a body of people that all have the same mission or goal that we want to pursue, which I think also is healing in itself, and so whenever we have this group of people that want to pursue healing and we don't have constraints, then the sky's the limit.

Speaker 1: 50:26

Yeah, it's what it really is is what healthcare could have been, or what some of us never knew we were always looking for. It's that like, oh, this is, yeah. I can just be honest here. I nobody's like. Welcome to a room full of people who don't have an ego, welcome to a room full of people who are trying to help and are open to other ideas, and for those minds to get together and say here's how we'd help humanity heal. And yeah, we're. We have basic criteria of values that we have. We, we have basic criteria of values that we have. We don't just bring anybody onto our team, but we have such a new windfall of excitement and hope and perspective on.

Speaker 1: 51:04

Wow. This could be a statement of a game changer way to approach health for so many people and just ground them in the first principles of health, ground them in the principles of healing and community and in recognizing there's so much more to their whole humanness. You're not just. We don't reduce you to a lab test or a math equation or a printout that we can then tinker with. You're complex, like all of us, and it's okay that there are other things to figure out before you even get to the point where a supplement can finally make the difference. Sometimes there are major things about life that just a question or two can illuminate, where you say, wow, I just had a breakthrough in my thinking and now that I've had that, I can see a believable, hopeful path to the life I've been wanting anyway.

Speaker 2: 51:50

So anyway, that's A breakthrough in thinking, I think is crucial, because if you don't have breakthroughs in thinking, then you're going to have difficulty in changing habits and doing what's good for you, and habits have such an impact on our health. And so, yeah, I think that that concept is that's a concept that I do explore with most of my patients too is, you know, getting to the bottom of their decision-making and their habits.

Speaker 1: 52:16

Yeah, which, find me any of you listening, find me another MD who does that. I challenge you. It's just not many, but it is so important and until you can. You know, essentially I'm picturing you in the office setting your prescription pad on the table and just looking at the person in the eye and and kind of just having a heart like that's what medicine is for the family doctor. You know that we remember from little house on the prairie days, that's, yeah, that's that's how medicine was, because I see the family, I see what you're trying to accomplish, I see the struggles you have and I realize that food is scarce or water's not great, whatever you just you see the whole person in front of you and, um, so we'll see where this goes.

Speaker 1: 52:55

It's been a fun ride for both of us. We have no idea all the upcoming twists and turns or divine appointments that are in our future, but it's a fun way to think about spending our days and doing work that we know contributes to humanity and can be a balm for so many really strongly felt needs. So, heather, thanks for taking the time again today. It's a privilege to be able to call you Heather, not just Dr Gessling, I consider you a friend and love spending time with you.

Speaker 1: 53:22

Same here, cool.

Speaker 2: 53:23

All right?

Speaker 1: 53:24

Well, thanks for listening to you guys. We stay tuned. You can check us out on the internet at healingunitedtoday and learn more about all the different things we're up to, and we will keep rolling out new things and letting you in on some fun collaborations that we have upcoming in.