Flatlines to J-Curves: Product-Market Fit in Brazilian FinTech

This episode dives into Ana Zucato’s bold journey with Noh, Brazil’s first joint account platform. From breaking cultural barriers to cracking the code on product-market fit, Ana brings the highs, lows, and hard-won lessons of turning flatlines into J-curves in a dynamic and challenging startup landscape.

You can follow Ana’s journey on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/anazucato/

Follow us on Tik Tok @shesambitiousaf for more content and episode teasers!

Transcript

[00:00:00] Welcome to She's Ambitious AF, the bold and empowering podcast that turns up the volume on female entrepreneurship. Join us as we dive headfirst into the wild world of boss babes, where we spill the tea on all things ambition, success, and the occasional hilarious disaster. 

Angelica Maestas (Host): Welcome back to another episode of She's Ambitious AF. Today I'm joined by guest Ana Zucato. Ana, why don't you introduce yourself to our listeners?

Ana Zucato: Of course. Thanks for having me Angelica. Super excited to be here. So I'm a Brazilian founder and entrepreneur. I love technology. I love yoga and I love my bulldogs, my bulldog and all bulldogs out there. As you can see I've been the founder of Null for the past three years. Null is Brazil's first joint account.

Ana Zucato: Believe it or not, We don't have joint accounts in Brazil,

Angelica Maestas (Host): Wow.

Ana Zucato: we're creating them [00:01:00] from scratch, basically. and I have a 15 old career in tech and startups in general. So yeah, I

Angelica Maestas (Host): Okay.

Ana Zucato: it about me.

Angelica Maestas (Host): All right. So 15 years in tech, were you a business owner yourself in the startup or you just worked with startups?

Ana Zucato: So the, how I explain this is always founding team and now the founder. So I started working in startups in a moment in which believe it or not, this wasn't even a word in Brazil, like the first time I was in college and I saw this announcement for a spot, an open role in a startup, and I was like, what is a startup

Angelica Maestas (Host): Oh my gosh.

Ana Zucato: common for you guys here in the U S but for us. It's a 12 to 15-year-old industry.

Angelica Maestas (Host): Wow.

Ana Zucato: you to have an idea, I was part of one of Brazil's first e-commerce [00:02:00] for women's fashion in a moment when women weren't even paying online. the whole point of an e-commerce is for you to pay online.

Ana Zucato: so they were walking into our office and trying to pay in person 'cause people just couldn't understand.

Ana Zucato: literally like 12 years ago, so not that long.

Angelica Maestas (Host): Oh my goodness. That's wild to me. So I imagine then schools probably aren't teaching entrepreneurial tracks or degrees or anything like that. Oh,

Ana Zucato: Not at all, I'm a business grad, the only two possible careers in my time were consultancies and banks. And it was fun because when I joined college, I was like, I don't want to work for any of these two. Like literally, I don't want to wear a suit my whole

Angelica Maestas (Host): Yeah.

Ana Zucato: So I was one of like the only person in my 100. class that was like, okay, I want [00:03:00] to work with something that I love, a product that makes me interested in not a bank and not giving advice on other people's business because I'm an 18 year old and I don't know nothing.

Angelica Maestas (Host): Yeah.

Ana Zucato: This is how I ended up in the fashion industry

Angelica Maestas (Host): but it was super new.

Ana Zucato: Like I remember traveling to Boston to do a summer course in Babson.

Angelica Maestas (Host): Mm-Hmm.

Ana Zucato: and how they are the first entrepreneurship, university. And I was like, okay I need this. I want this. Why don't we have this in Brazil? Right now in 2024, we have. We, it was just launched the first university focus on entrepreneurship.

Angelica Maestas (Host): Oh,

Ana Zucato: exciting. But in bed, somebody like 2024.

Angelica Maestas (Host): wow. That's fascinating. Is, is the US startup ecosystem the model then for, for how they're, they're getting going and

Ana Zucato: Yeah,

Angelica Maestas (Host): better or for worse,

Ana Zucato: I would say

Angelica Maestas (Host): Mm-Hmm.

Ana Zucato: weird that the ecosystem [00:04:00] wasn't there yet, but we've been able to innovate in some other areas such as the finance area. the finance area, for example, in Brazil is like 10 times more evolved than the finance, like the digital finances here in the US. the startup ecosystem, and by this, I mean the people working on it, the way to do like the craft of creating a startup and the investments. even like, not even close to where the U. S. is right now. So we're still in embryo into knowing how to build a startup. However, we do have some amazing innovations on the other side, which makes, which puts Brazil in the center of financial innovation, but, and then these two things have to coexist,

Angelica Maestas (Host): Yeah. Yeah.

Ana Zucato: People are learning to build startups, learning to build technology and already creating like technologies that are way more advanced than anywhere else I've ever seen. [00:05:00] So it's fun. also scary. It's crazy, but it's

Angelica Maestas (Host): Well, what was the experience? Working for the startup team. So prior to being the founder yourself, what was it like working for a startup in Brazil?

Ana Zucato: amazing. I mean that's where I learned that no one had no idea what they were doing, everyone was super conscious that we could try everything.

Angelica Maestas (Host): Oh, wow. Mm hmm. Mm hmm.

Ana Zucato: very specific upgrown, like, race, and my school was very specific. It was a constructivist school that basically teaches you how to think versus teaches you things. So, I loved it, like, working in a startup for me is the equivalent of thinking, of creating, of experimenting. So I think it was obvious that my career would have to be something like this, and apart from all the [00:06:00] traditional things. But on the other hand, kind of scary as well, and I think the word is scary, because softwares basically, they can go anywhere. You can you can make them do whatever you want them to do. And it's scary to the point that maybe if you're going to the wrong direction, hard to know versus other more stable industries or careers. Like, I remember all my friends in college, they were like, okay, she's crazy. She's lost. Like that's the one, you know, the one crazy person

Angelica Maestas (Host): Yeah.

Ana Zucato: in your flat. It was me. Well, now everybody's working in startups. Everybody's working in tech.

Angelica Maestas (Host): You set a trend. That's awesome.

Ana Zucato: Yeah. I think Brazil set the trend, 

Angelica Maestas (Host): what is it like to, to fundraise? Cause you, you raised capital for no, right. Was it, did you start in Brazil then went outside or, or what was that process like?

Ana Zucato: It was super hard. I think the hardest thing I've done so far, although people [00:07:00] make it seem easy because all you see in a cover of a magazine is like this startup raised

Angelica Maestas (Host): Mm hmm.

Ana Zucato: and the process behind is it's brutal. Actually, it's not even hard. It's something different than I've ever experienced. You know, although people say it's hard.

Ana Zucato: No, it's not. It kills you day by day,

Angelica Maestas (Host): Mm hmm.

Ana Zucato: because you're talking to all of these experienced VCs, angel investors, entrepreneurs, and people in the ecosystem, and nine out of 10 times, you hear that your idea sucks, that you suck, that this is never going to work. That everything you put your heart, blood, sweat, and tears into doesn't make any sense that you're completely nuts. So, it's, it's a process that teaches you to keep going,

Angelica Maestas (Host): Yeah.

Ana Zucato: brutal until you get one yes, and that's all that really matters.

Angelica Maestas (Host): Mm hmm. Yeah. The, the emotional [00:08:00] involvement and pouring your heart into that when you get all those no's, it feels like they're rejecting you personally and they're rejecting your baby, which is your business. And you're pouring your heart and soul into that. But I, but you're right about.

Angelica Maestas (Host): We don't hear about the brutality of it. We see founders winning when they're on the cover of a magazine or in the news. Oh, so and so raised X million. But yeah, it's, it's a lonely journey and it's a painful one for sure.

Ana Zucato: yeah,

Angelica Maestas (Host): I was gonna say that when I started the company, the only thing that I wanted to do was tell my story as it progresses. So instead of being the cover of the magazine, I wanted to tell the backgrounds, the behind the scenes,

Angelica Maestas (Host): Hmm.

Ana Zucato: really happening. So, because I think working for startups for so long in Brazil, at least where all you see are the magazine covers.

Ana Zucato: And I think here in the U S it's pretty much the same.

Angelica Maestas (Host): Yeah.

Ana Zucato: get this idea that it's all glamour, [00:09:00] all money, a lot of money, a lot of tech and it's all amazing, but it really isn't. So. I guess being the founding team gave me the experience to be able to tell people, Hey, this is nothing like you have no idea what it took, what it took me or us and my team to get there. And it literally means nothing because you're seeing it and then you're going back to work. So it's not as if I'm getting clients because of it.

Angelica Maestas (Host): Yeah.

Ana Zucato: company is not growing because we're in the cover of my magazine announcing a big launch. So this is not where the focus should be.

Angelica Maestas (Host): Yeah.

Ana Zucato: this is something that also started happening in Brazil, super recently, which is like the building in public side of things, I'm super fond of, cause I think we have to start speaking more and this is why podcasts like you are making the difference.

Angelica Maestas (Host): Yeah. Well, it. Even just the process of starting to raise capital where venture is, is not the norm. What [00:10:00] was, what was that process like? Did you raise from Latin American investors or?

Ana Zucato: So, yeah, we have like two big investors country. No, I'm kidding. Like the big ones, like growth stage, it's literally two. And then now they're starting to exist some other early stage funds. then again, funds that have, they are not mature enough to be able to make those decisions, but the people working there are super smart intelligence, they have amazing track records, but it's just a matter of time.

Angelica Maestas (Host): Mm hmm. Yeah.

Ana Zucato: haven't, they haven't gotten returns yet.

Ana Zucato: So my first move was to find angel investors. I'm grateful for being in the ecosystem for so long that I knew a bunch of people. I knew a bunch of all the other unicorn founders. So this was my first strategy. Let's get money from them and see if I have their support at least see what happens from there.

Ana Zucato: And then one of them, [00:11:00] two of them started introducing me to funds in the US, UK, China, India, like from all over. And that was when my brain exploded. up until then, I was like, okay, I'm left with two VCs. So if they don't like me, I'm literally out of business. And we ended up raising with two funds from the U S and two funds from the UK, which it was a new thing for me

Angelica Maestas (Host): Mm hmm.

Ana Zucato: amazing because these funds, they know what they're doing.

Angelica Maestas (Host): Yeah.

Ana Zucato: I'm not saying the Brazilians ones don't, but this one's have track record.

Angelica Maestas (Host): Yeah.

Ana Zucato: Know what it is to build a company from scratch. They know how to help you when you're trying to find market fit, when you think your company is going broke, you have problem with your co founders. So it's been like a blessing.

Angelica Maestas (Host): Yeah. Well, the LATAM ecosystem and, and, and venture is still about developing comfort with risk because their tolerance isn't [00:12:00] very high. I met with a family office in Mexico and they said their checks are 50, 000 and. That's, you know, it's going to take time. It is going to take time for them to get comfortable with the level of risk that is required for venture funds to really hit it big and to really make a difference in the founders and the startups that they're investing in.

Ana Zucato: Yeah, which is weird, right? Because the region is huge. So the opportunities are huge.

Angelica Maestas (Host): Yeah.

Ana Zucato: Like, for example, the biggest, the biggest neobank in the world is Nubank, and it's Brazilian. It was born there, like, 15 years ago, and it's literally the biggest in the world right now.

Angelica Maestas (Host): Wow.

Ana Zucato: So we have this power to execute, to build, and the innovation on finances is there.

Angelica Maestas (Host): Yeah.

Ana Zucato: venture money to start seeing us with a more optimistic

Angelica Maestas (Host): Well, I would love to talk a little bit about the the VCs that did invest in you because you've gotten some pretty high profile [00:13:00] VCs in your network. What was the experience like meeting with some of the big guys? I know Kindred invested. Yeah.

Ana Zucato: Future Positive Propel. It was amazing. Like, when I was talking to those guys, I was like, Thank you for just taking 12 minutes to talk to me. I think this is the first thing. the second thing you realize, Okay, I might be about to make a lot of money for these guys. So, it's a relationship, it's more like a partnership than anything. I remember the first time I met Connie from Kindred, he had a an art on his wall. It was the first thing that I saw, just like you saw my dog, when I entered, and I was like, oh, is this is this, I don't remember the name of the painter, and he was like, yes, do you like it? And I'm like, huh. So we started talking about art.

Angelica Maestas (Host): Oh, yeah.

Ana Zucato: This is where it started and I'm pretty [00:14:00] confident that he remembers this up until this day because the end we're all people

Angelica Maestas (Host): Yeah.

Ana Zucato: I'm a truly believer that this partnership is only as good as these two people are willing to make it good.

Angelica Maestas (Host): Mm hmm. Mm

Ana Zucato: So, it's gonna be a long run, there are lots of hassles, it's hard work, but in the end, if you like the people, I think it's exciting,

Angelica Maestas (Host): hmm.

Ana Zucato: like, if I thrive, and if they grow, if their fund grows, if he gets money to put his kids into college, then I'm, amazed.

Angelica Maestas (Host): Yeah. Mm. Mm

Ana Zucato: me so much. Because they have such a diverse portfolio that this was something that I was looking for as well. Like, their portfolio is diverse enough to the point that he can give me relevant knowledge, like relevant experience. And I'm not saying that I follow everything that my investors tell me, but I listen to it carefully.

Angelica Maestas (Host): hmm.

Ana Zucato: there are some patterns there [00:15:00] that I could benefit from.

Angelica Maestas (Host): so what I'm hearing is the non transactional nature of the relationship with your investors and a lot of founders don't get that. They're so hell bent on the check. We need the capital. We need, you know, we need runway, all of that, but the The relationship is so much more than that.

Angelica Maestas (Host): And we talk about that a lot on the podcast. And I think I even know the art that you're talking about with Kanye. That's always in his background. But you, you started the conversation based on something completely unrelated to the purpose of the meeting. And. It's, it highlights the relationship that should exist, that it should not just be about dollars.

Angelica Maestas (Host): It is about a human being on the other side of the table, a human that you're committing to being in a long relationship with. And so you should have other things to talk about besides dollars.

Ana Zucato: exactly. And the same thing happened with Harry from 20VC. So, when we first met, it was just like [00:16:00] you. Like it's, you, it's funny to see the person that you're often listening

Angelica Maestas (Host): Yeah, I bet. Yeah. Yeah. Wow.

Ana Zucato: to your podcast for over a year and a half now. I remember like weird thing, but my husband was cutting my dog's nails on the background. same thing. And then Harry was like, what is happening there? And I'm like, I'm sorry, we're moving. There's a lot going on. And these types of connections is like a human connection. This is where it all starts.

Ana Zucato: And for these past three years, there is not a single time that I text even Connie or Harry or any one of the others that don't, they don't reply me like right away. And I think it's because it's humans first and then business second.

Angelica Maestas (Host): Do you think because you, you were not In the US startup ecosystem, that it was maybe less intimidating to talk to talking to folks like that, because they're [00:17:00] top tier BCs. They're what founders aspire to get in front of. And then here you are in front of them. I mean, you, you appear perfectly confident and that you.

Angelica Maestas (Host): Maybe because you took a different approach to to being relationship focused.

Ana Zucato: Yeah, it's possible. I never thought of it that way, but like, I tend to look at every person that I meet as a person first. Like it doesn't matter who, and I'm also looking for what can this person teach me? even though I might appear confident and this is you saying,

Angelica Maestas (Host): Yeah.

Ana Zucato: like, okay, I'm every connection is an opportunity to learn something.

Angelica Maestas (Host): Yeah,

Ana Zucato: I might as well do it. Of course I had stopped them and Google them and

Angelica Maestas (Host): of course.

Ana Zucato: who they were, but I was there pitching my startup the same way that I'm pitching it every single day for the past three years.

Angelica Maestas (Host): Yeah.

Ana Zucato: and I was just overwhelmed that I could talk to them.

Angelica Maestas (Host): Mm hmm.

Ana Zucato: had no idea where this was going to end, but [00:18:00] for me, the whole point was. Just that conversation like

Angelica Maestas (Host): Yeah.

Ana Zucato: it has a means it's not an end

Angelica Maestas (Host): Yeah.

Ana Zucato: the end not the

Angelica Maestas (Host): Yeah.

Ana Zucato: something

Angelica Maestas (Host): Yep.

Ana Zucato: it.

Angelica Maestas (Host): Yeah. No, I get it. I think that's well, first, what I heard is you, you did the leg work. You did research, of course, and we all linked in stock, the, the people that we're going to meet with, but Yeah. I think that was a good approach that you took and that maybe a lot of founders, it's hard for them to get past that.

Angelica Maestas (Host): And they get kind of hung up on what this could be and all that's riding on it. Even if nothing materializes, you had a conversation with an investor that has learned a lot that has track record. There's going to be some gift that you get from that conversation. Any nugget, any pearl of wisdom.

Ana Zucato: Totally. Exactly. And this is what I try to get from every single Encounter that I have in my life because I think we're here for it

Angelica Maestas (Host): Yeah. Well, I would [00:19:00] love to hear what it was like being the founder and no longer just part of the founding team. What were some of maybe the unexpected lessons from that journey?

Ana Zucato: I think well, always wanted this my whole life. My dad has a business. He's always been like this Sample of what I wanted to be in life You I had no idea that, then, then, like, I'm three years into this right now. One thing that really drastically changed is like, I got very confused. For me, I'm a very decisive person.

Ana Zucato: I have my opinions and when I was working for others, I always shared them in a very structured way with arguments and so on and so forth. This was the first thing that I started noticed changing when I became the founder and I became like vulnerable in a way that the decisions that I was so [00:20:00] pragmatic and practical do before now I was maybe taking them with an extra caution. don't know if it was

Angelica Maestas (Host): Mm.

Ana Zucato: super scared to ruin the business super scared that I had to make it perfect. Or just because insecure, because now it's all on me,

Angelica Maestas (Host): Yeah. Mm-Hmm?

Ana Zucato: on me. So it's easy for you to give opinions and to make decisions when it's not all on you. And then this was the first thing that changed. But with that, also a second thing came, which was like, I don't fear nobody, Because I was at this point right now in which I felt what founders feel, which is questions, criticism, doubts all the time, fear of death all the time. But we didn't die yet. We're here. It's all going good. So there is no person that's better than the other, or there's

Angelica Maestas (Host): [00:21:00] Mm-Hmm.

Ana Zucato: one that knows best. It's just accumulation of good decisions being made, some luck, some opportunity, privileges. It is what it is, but it made me less, like, it made me understand that we're all the same.

Angelica Maestas (Host): Yeah.

Ana Zucato: Like, me as a founder, I'm no better than anyone. no one's better than me. Like, this is not how it

Angelica Maestas (Host): Mm-Hmm. . Yeah. Mm-Hmm.

Ana Zucato: of learned how to have fun the role and how to take advantage out of it.

Ana Zucato: Like, what am I going to be when this experience is over? I don't think, I don't hope it to be over, but maybe it eventually will be somehow. Like, what is the person that I want to

Angelica Maestas (Host): Yeah.

Ana Zucato: that happens? Like, what is the takeaways from this experience?

Angelica Maestas (Host): Mm hmm. Because no matter the outcome, you still come out evolved on the other side, you're different and better in some way, whether it's wisdom, experience, whatever it was and [00:22:00] something someone else just. Said to me the other day, or I heard she, she said, I've survived a hundred percent of my worst days.

Angelica Maestas (Host): And so is everyone in front of you, like, we've all experienced the worst, but we're still here. And so failure is not as fatal as sometimes it feels when you're a founder, it's like, Oh, it'll just be that most worst thing. If this doesn't succeed, it's going to suck, but there's, there's still a positive outcome on the other side of that.

Angelica Maestas (Host): Right. Oh,

Ana Zucato: changes is when you're an employee and you're working for someone else, you know, they have 10, 000 or a hundred other employees. It's not all on you. you're the founder, it kind of seems like it's all on you. And I have a co founder and this is a conversation we have all the time. Me and him, we like, it feels like it's just us, like all of their all alone. I, I love my team. And I love how they are [00:23:00] involved in the company. And I learned not to feel as alone by sharing a lot with them

Angelica Maestas (Host): yeah.

Ana Zucato: version and vulnerable and a hundred percent transparency to the point that we all know in our company right now, that know what we don't know.

Angelica Maestas (Host): Yeah.

Ana Zucato: And those are the funniest conversations that we have. Like we have fun assuming that we don't know this and we're going to have to figure it out.

Angelica Maestas (Host): I love that. Is it was all of your team built in Brazil or now that you're in the U. S., do you have a mix going on?

Ana Zucato: No, we're only 12 people all based in Brazil, all Brazilians. Except for me, I'm living here now, but I'm also Brazilian.

Angelica Maestas (Host): Okay. How has culture influenced, if you think at all, and how you, how you run a business?

Ana Zucato: A hundred percent. I've worked for Brazilian startups and I worked for the US's biggest FinTech, which is [00:24:00] Intuit. I learned a lot about how Americans work and what is the culture. And I think I've been able to extract what I see the best in the American corporate culture

Angelica Maestas (Host): Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Mm 

Ana Zucato: we are an underdeveloped country. We're poor. We have 10, 000 problems and like how to manage your finances. One of them, but like, we can be robbed just by walking on the street. So there are kind of other bigger problems there. And I think this has given the Brazilian culture a more of a hassle creative way to work. We work a lot. We work very hard.

Ana Zucato: Like we are a country that knows how to work. So when building our company, I think we've been able to extract two sides of both, so our companies are pragmatic, it's very direct. It's very transparent, and this is what I've learned [00:25:00] in Intuit. Like, be specific, write what you need, write In Brazil, we talk a lot. So Brazil, like, meetings in Brazil, it's like, Jesus Christ, we're gonna talk forever, we're gonna ask how your holiday was, how's your mom, how's your dog. takes, like, I'm not kidding, like, 12 minutes, 15 minutes out of a half hour meeting, just talking.

Angelica Maestas (Host): hmm.

Ana Zucato: So, I think culture influences a lot on how the business operates, you know, on how the business is agile or not, and do we have specific times to talk about specific subjects, you

Angelica Maestas (Host): hmm. Yeah. Yeah.

Ana Zucato: their own. of nowhere, because I like you because I like your, the color of your headphones because you're my friend's friend, you know, and Americans are like, what is the best thing for my business? Where can we reduce costs? Like, what is the stretch here?

Angelica Maestas (Host): Yeah.

Ana Zucato: I think it's [00:26:00] like super different. 

Angelica Maestas (Host): What a blessing, though, to be exposed to both cultures to be able to take the good that you see. I'm curious to what were some of the, you said you took some of the good of what you saw from American corporate culture. What, what was that?

Ana Zucato: I mean, I summarize it to direct communication, to structured thinking, and one thing that amazes me in the U S so much is how Americans are native sellers and in the storytelling and narrative, I don't know. It's very different from Brazil. I cannot define exactly how it is in the U S, but it seems like it's You guys can quickly form a narrative, form a story and sell and pitch really well. And you can ask investors in the next episodes, like the difference of a Brazilian pitching versus an American

Angelica Maestas (Host): Mm hmm.

Ana Zucato: We don't know how to pitch. We don't know how to sell. We don't [00:27:00] know how to expose our ideas because we're stuck on the day to day, solving things.

Angelica Maestas (Host): Mm

Ana Zucato: And I also think Brazil has a culture of. is bad,

Angelica Maestas (Host): hmm. Mm hmm.

Ana Zucato: rich is bad, because we're an underdeveloped country, like making money is shameful.

Angelica Maestas (Host): Mm hmm.

Ana Zucato: the corporate culture down there is kind of weird, as I was saying.

Angelica Maestas (Host): Yeah.

Ana Zucato: But I think this main, the main three things I've learned about the US, I value this so much. And I see the impact on my day to day business, and how it makes us a different startup than the rest.

Angelica Maestas (Host): Yeah. I love that. I'm so glad that you shared that. It's sparked all sorts of other thoughts as I just, I'm fascinated by venture, just period. I've spent the last year immersed in it raising my own fund now, and it's fascinating for a lot of different reasons. But. I love it. Yeah. I'm learning all about USBC and I'm very curious about how it [00:28:00] emerges in other countries and how maybe they can take the good from what we've got going in venture, but not developing some of the bad habits.

Angelica Maestas (Host): So I'm, I'm very curious about that.

Ana Zucato: Amazing. There's lots for you to explore

Angelica Maestas (Host): Yeah. Well, I'd like to hear a little bit about what's next for you, what's next for the team. And then we'll dive into some rapid fire questions.

Ana Zucato: Of course. Yeah, so, our trajectory was not a straightforward one. We found MarketFit a year ago. So this means it's been three years of hustle, of experimenting, of changing a lot, the product on waiting for the central bank of Brazil to create some features while we had to take detours of our, from our longterm vision. it's been crazy, now we found market fit and it's just this amazing thing

Angelica Maestas (Host): Yeah,

Ana Zucato: all your flat [00:29:00] lines starting into like. J curves and hockey stick lines. And you were like, it's happening like here we were onto something and this finally works and We built our business in a way that we wanted to find market fit first and then create the business before scaling.

Ana Zucato: When I think about product market fit, it's not just product market, it's product market business fit.

Angelica Maestas (Host): Hmm. Okay.

Ana Zucato: that is B2C. Charges for your account on a subscription model. had to reinvent it because we're using this new technology that allows us to live on top of the banks versus being another bank. the way we're creating our joint account is by joining two existing accounts into another layer, which is our account, right?

Angelica Maestas (Host): Okay. Yeah.

Ana Zucato: they're paying. And so at a subscription model, we had to teach [00:30:00] Brazilians to think more like Netflix than Neobank,

Angelica Maestas (Host): Hmm.

Ana Zucato: for a financial system, it's different. So once we found market fit with the product, we were like, okay, let's plug the business into there. How are we going to make money? Cause I don't want to depend on the rates and the transactions to make me money. Cause I'm building a software. I'm not building a transactional platform. And then we did it. We were able to implement the subscription model in their pay for it. So it's just amazing to see that people, like if you do a product really well, that really solves the problem. A pain in that if you can communicate that super well, and I think this is what I learned from the U. S. Like super transparent and explaining why people pay, I think, as I said, Brazilian culture is kind of scary when it comes to money.

Ana Zucato: So most [00:31:00] of financial products down there are kind of free because we don't know how to charge them. And because residents hate our banks, have the highest interest rates in the world. So this has given us a lot of lack of confidence in the bank's transparency and like authenticity. we've been able to do something that was really hard. now what's next grow? I think, Oh, the hard part. Correct. we already have a user base. We understand how they behave. We have distribution channels in place. And I think it's one of those really exciting moments in our startup where it seems like everything is there and we know how to make it grow.

Ana Zucato: So let's put money onto this onto this motor and this engine and let's see what happens. So

Angelica Maestas (Host): That's exciting.

Ana Zucato: yeah,

Angelica Maestas (Host): Yeah. What are, what are some of the growth targets as [00:32:00] far as volume or

Ana Zucato: Yeah. We want a 10 X. in the next year. So we want to hit a hundred, a hundred thousand users. And yeah, see where that leads us.

Angelica Maestas (Host): wonderful? All right. Well, I'm going to transition us to some rapid fire questions, morning person or night owl?

Ana Zucato: Morning person. Ever since I was like literally two years old, my mom put us in this school, which was like two hours away from my house. I had to wake up in the

Angelica Maestas (Host): Oh gosh.

Ana Zucato: Yes, so, morning person, and now living here and working in Brazilian hours, I continue to be the same person.

Angelica Maestas (Host): Oh, my goodness,

Ana Zucato: Yeah,

Angelica Maestas (Host): best way to celebrate a win 

Ana Zucato: talk about it, together,

Angelica Maestas (Host): teleportation or mind reading.

Ana Zucato: teleportation, I think [00:33:00] living abroad is hard,

Angelica Maestas (Host): Yeah, I would, I would do teleportation to traveling back in time or visiting the future. Yeah, I

Ana Zucato: I don't know, I think back in time, I miss some people that are gone, and I'm not anxious about the future, like, what happens, happens.

Angelica Maestas (Host): kind of don't want to know. I'll be surprised. Yeah.

Ana Zucato: correct.

Angelica Maestas (Host): Most used app.

Ana Zucato: Well, now, besides

Angelica Maestas (Host): no.

Ana Zucato: I think my Whoop,

Angelica Maestas (Host): Whoop.

Ana Zucato: Whoop app, yeah, because I'm like trying to understand some changes in my body currently, so yeah,

Angelica Maestas (Host): Oh,

Ana Zucato: that several times a day.

Angelica Maestas (Host): okay. Favorite productivity hack.

Ana Zucato: task, list,

Angelica Maestas (Host): If no had a theme song, what would it be?

Ana Zucato: I don't know, but [00:34:00] maybe a carnival song in Brazil. I don't know what song that would be, but I love carnival, how happy it is, how exciting and fun.

Angelica Maestas (Host): Yeah.

Ana Zucato: yeah,

Angelica Maestas (Host): And last but not least, what can our listeners do to support you?

Ana Zucato: well, thanks for listening at first and then I am assuming most of your listeners are American so you cannot use my app yet, so follow me on LinkedIn, this is where I post the most and Google Translate my posts, you're interested. But yeah, that's where I'm at.

Angelica Maestas (Host): Wonderful. Well, it was so great having you on.

Ana Zucato: No, thank you so much, thanks for having me. 

And that's a wrap on another episode of She's Ambitious AF. Remember to dream big, hustle harder, and show the world that when it comes to success, we're not just ambitious, we're Ambitious AF.