#11 Navigating Mid-Life Transitions with Purpose and Intention: Insights from Dr. Dorian Minzer

 With us today, we have Dr. Dorian Minzer, a renowned speaker, author, therapist, and coach, who will guide us in embracing our mid-life transitions with intentionality and purpose. She illuminates the path to crafting our midlife years into a vibrant mosaic, not merely of existence, but of purpose and fulfillment. Dr. Minzer enlightens us on the significance of a growth mindset and how it fosters connection, engagement, and gives life a deeper meaning. She also shares her unique perspective on leaving a legacy, assuring us it doesn't need to be monumental, but memorable.

Dorian Mintzer Books on Amazon

https://revolutionizeretirement.com/

In midlife it's critical to understand the core values and priorities that shape our individual perspectives. This episode unpacks how to transform these insights into a purpose-driven existence. We learn how to nurture positive psychology, practice forgiveness, and cultivate a resilience that can weather life's storms. It's about living a life designed around your purpose and values, and we share practical steps to achieve this. 

Finally, we address the practical side of midlife, focusing on finances, health, and relationships. Financial literacy is a must, and we discuss how to navigate money conversations within relationships and confront money messages from our past. Dr. Minzer provides valuable insights into maintaining health and wellness in mid-life, striking a balance between physical and emotional wellbeing. As a bonus, she touches on the power of mindfulness and meditation in creating meaningful connections with ourselves. So, tune in and let's journey together, equipping ourselves with the tools to navigate life's transitions with purpose and intention.

Transcript

Kyle: 0:00

I'm just going to read this. I'll probably re-record this because I know I'll mess it up in front of you, but I'll just read it to make sure that it sounds good to you, and then we'll just get into it. Okay, so today we're honored to have Dr Dorian Minzer Minzer, yes you're right, dr.

Dorian: 0:15

Dorian.

Kyle: 0:15

Minzer, thank you. A distinguished speaker, author, therapist and coach who has devoted her career to helping individuals shape their bonus years into a vibrant mosaic of purpose and fulfillment, with a profound belief in the uniqueness of each individual, dorian's journey has been a testament to embracing life's opportunities and challenges with intention. She's the co-author of the couple's retirement puzzle 10 Must have Conversations for creating an amazing new life together and the host of Revolutionize your Retirement Radio Podcast. Welcome to the show, dorian, so glad you are here.

Dorian: 0:49

Thank you, Kyle. Thanks for inviting me.

Kyle: 0:52

You are welcome. Could you start by just giving our listeners some insight into your background and how you became interested in our topics today?

Dorian: 0:59

Sure, you know I've always been interested in people, in life transitions, because, when you think about it, we have transitions throughout our life, yeah, probably from the moment we're born, although we may not be as conscious of those. And with my interest in transitions, I had gotten my very first therapy, a master's and social work degree back in 1970, and was really interested in working with individuals and groups. And then began, you know, working more with people, just in different life stages then, and they seemed to have paralleled my own life stages. And then I ended up in the mid-70s getting my PhD and doing more work with individuals and with couples and got a coaching degree and I'm one of what's called the leading edge boomers.

Dorian: 1:49

So back in 2006, you know, everybody was turning 60. And there was this whole hype about, you know, 10,000 people a day were turning 60. And so, you know, around that time or in preparation for it, I realized that being 60 was different from like in my parents' generation when 60 was really old. Yes, and you know, really studying in preparation for my own being 60, learning as much as I could about adult development, about life planning, about positive psychology, and so it sort of morphed into working with people second half of life. But I still love working with younger people too, because I think each life transition informs how we're going to approach this one, you know, and some people have more trouble with endings, you know, with the letting go, with the making space for something new. Some have more trouble with the in-between, the neutral, unknown, the messy middle it's often called, and some with the new beginning. And so you know, I just love working with people in life transitions. So that's how I got to helping people navigate the second half of life.

Kyle: 3:04

Oh yes, your approach really resonates with me. I found your approach to well-being and being intentional, you know, to be really helpful and really to be inspiring, really. So this might be a grand question, but how would you describe the ideal mindset for approaching midlife? And, you know, contributing that, contributing to our overall well-being.

Dorian: 3:26

Well, a few things. That's a really, really good question. A couple of things when you think about it. Work and also active parenting provides some connection, engagement, purpose and meaning, some structure to life, a reason to get out of bed in the morning, usually, self-esteem, sense of community, meaningful relationships, a sense of kind of agency that you matter, and so I think it's helpful, at whatever your age, to begin to think about what's the structure, what are the roles that work well for you, whether it be parenting, whether it be working, and to think about as you anticipate maybe working in a different way or not working, or kids are launched. If you have them, what, what? How will you build connection, engagement and purpose and meaning into your life?

Dorian: 4:27

I think, that that's a really important aspect to think about and I think advice I would give to listeners who are probably in not the second half of life yet would be to try throughout life to have what's called a growth mindset. A growth mindset is really wanting to learn, you know, wanting to be the best we can be. You know, without you know, denying reality, that we all age. Some of us age better than other people, some have genetic aspects, but generally there are a lot of parts of life we can have some control over, like exercising our body and brain, good nutrition, meaningful relationships, spirituality, connection, engagement, purpose and meaning. I can't stress that you know enough.

Dorian: 5:16

And a growth mindset is being open to yourself and your own possibilities, rather than what's called a fixed mindset, where you maybe believe the stereotypes that society has for you. Regardless, it could be gender based, it could be age based. We live in a society where there's a lot of ageism. I mean, there are a lot of isms, but we have a lot of ageism which is really a prejudice against being older, which is actually a prejudice against our future self.

Kyle: 5:47

That's right, if we're lucky, we're going to get older. Yeah.

Dorian: 5:51

You know, and sometimes we internalize that, so it's so easy. You know, for example, when you're 40 or 50 or 60 thinking oh my gosh, I am so old now it's all downhill and you believe that it will be. So it becomes important to have this growth mindset, to know it's not a chronological age. It's how we learn. You know what our ideas are about ourself and how, what our relationship is to other people, to the planet, to the world, and how do we want to engage in it, how do we want to be remembered too. You know we all want to be remembered, in tiny or bigger ways. Now is the time, with that growth mindset at whatever age you are, you know to think more positively that you matter, that you can make a difference. If you believe that and if you don't, there's a slippery slope of kind of going downhill that unfortunately people can go into at whatever age.

Kyle: 6:56

Yes, so well said. I mean, as you say, that it makes me think of you know, our bodies and brains are different than when we were younger and you know, like you said, we think we're on an incline in a certain stage of life and then maybe we're on a decline. But really it's accepting that and I, when I listen to your work and read your works, it's taking small steps towards A more purposeful steps, I guess I would say towards what you really want, and to recognize that we are not a decline. We take small steps each day towards what you really want. But the trick can be kind of what do we really want? You know, and that's a really open in the question, and I really like some of you, like what you write or your kind of framework For making some of those decisions. Could you talk a little bit more about that?

Dorian: 7:44

yeah, I think. I think it really is important to think about what is important to you, what are your values, what are your dreams, what are your strengths. I think that it's I like the framework of puzzle. It's part of why the book that I co-authored has the title couples retirement puzzle and I do want to mention to readers it's Although it's written for couples, it's really for anybody, and the person who wrote the forward actually said he thought it should be given to newlyweds Not that newlyweds are thinking about retirement, but it's all about how to communicate about important issues right.

Dorian: 8:21

I like puzzle because it's a verb and a noun and it's a framework that I use. So there are many things we need to puzzle out For ourself, and if you're in a relationship or friends or whoever's important in your life, it's good if they could puzzle it out so you each can create your own vision of what's important. You know what's not important, what you'd like to do, if possible, some things you definitely don't want to do, and have whoever's part of your life journey do a similar vision creation and then you figure out and try to create a shared journey and talk about where are their similarities, where are they aligned, where are they different, what are some things to do together or separately? So that's the verb part, the puzzling it out.

Dorian: 9:08

The other part that I like is that there are many aspects of our life that are like puzzle pieces. You know they're not going to fit together perfectly like a jigsaw puzzle, but they do impact each other. So, for example, things like finances, things like health and wellness those are two big ones that I think impact many other lifestyle choices and I'm a believer, no matter how much or how little money you have, it's helpful to talk with a life planner, and particularly one who's what's called a holistic life planner that isn't as interested in just the number but really wants to help you think about money as a tool and how you want it to help you have the kind of lifestyle you want and health and wellness.

Dorian: 9:51

I mean, we can't totally control it there's a Some interesting literature that in research that says by the time we're sixty five, thirty percent is genetics. Seventy percent are things we can have some control over. I mean, if you've got the thirty percent genetics, you need to deal with that. But attitude still can make a big difference in how you deal with whatever. You know. You know card, you draw in the luck of genetics. But the seventy percent are things I just mentioned before the healthy eating Exercise in your mind and brain meaningful relationship, self esteem, connection, engagement, purpose and meaning giving back. So they're all these puzzle pieces. So again, health and wellness and finances are two big ones. But other ones are Expectations of yourself or whoever's important in your life time together, time apart. Even in the best relationships it's better not to just be joined at the hip. I think covid sort of forced that someone. But you know, I think it really is good to know that we need time together and time apart. You know, if you're in a relationship, expectations kind of the role, relationships, relationship and obligation to family.

Dorian: 11:15

We live in such a changing demographic world. There's some people who are partnered and not married. There are many people who are just deciding to grow older alone, called solo ages. There are people in long term relationships. They're newly married couples. You know my family, your family, blended family, children, no children. You know same sex, heterosexual, it's all you know. There's so many variations. But within that you know, really needing to figure out you know how do we want to live our life in the best of relationships, we still need other friends, we need a social life and community. It's important to think about what ways to get back at, whatever age, I mean we live on this shared planet and trying to feel, you know, part of it, you know where we want to protect it for future generations. And one of you know, in small ways, bigger ways, you know, try to be part of that.

Dorian: 12:14

Thinking about end of life issues, wishes a lot of people don't want to think about mortality. I think knowing that, as far as we know, we all have the same and that we're going to at some point die, I think actually that makes life even more precious. You don't want to necessarily dwell on, you know, kind of the end point, but I think the end point can inform you to. You know, to make sure you've got things in order, no matter what your age, have a will, have your documents and documents in order, have a Health care proxy. It's like liberating and it's an act of love for whoever the survivors are to be able to do it. And once you've done it, you know you can put it away but then revisit it periodically, like a financial portfolio, you know. So you let yourself sort of see what's changed in your values or priorities along the way.

Dorian: 13:07

Spirituality is an important thing, and I don't necessarily mean religion when I say spirituality. For some people it may be that, for others it just may be a sense of how, how am I in this universe? You know how? How am I interconnected to nature, to everything around me? And often, as we get older, there are shifts to really trying to figure out what it's. What is it all about? So if you are a spiritual person mindfulness, different ways of wanting to cultivate that, that's great. It's never too late to develop that part.

Dorian: 13:46

An attitude makes such a difference. There's another study that says that a positive attitude about aging and growing older actually can give us seven and a half more years of life. And that doesn't mean a Pollyanna attitude, I mean no matter how well we take care of ourselves, we're going to age. It's always. I think it's always important to still have dreams and hopes and goals. You may have to shift them. You know your body doesn't want you to be high altitudes or you know as much hiking then find places to walk.

Dorian: 14:18

You know intergenerational connections, I think, are so, so important and sort of tied into what I mentioned before. You know there really are studies that people who have multiple chronic illnesses or terminal illnesses still can have a very positive attitude About life. We may not be able to change events that have happened to us, but we can have some impact on how we respond to it. And you know we always have our story to keep telling and we can change our story. We don't have to be a victim. You know just things that happened in our past that were hard. We can, you know, kind of work it through in a transformative way to grow and be resilient and you know, and hold on to gratefulness and forgiving ourselves and others. It's all the positive psychology part that I think is so, so important, you know, oh yes, and well researched and just a healthy way of living and being.

Dorian: 15:18

I believe you know and just to reiterate what you said, for me it's really helpful to have that framework, that puzzle like these are four main priorities. It's freezing a little bit here.

Kyle: 15:29

Oh sorry, dorian, I'll just pause.

Dorian: 15:34

I think you froze and it may look like I froze.

Kyle: 15:37

I still see you. How are we now? Are we better? Are we better? Dorian Shoot, I'm still here. How are you?

Dorian: 16:32

I'm not hearing you now, Kyle.

Kyle: 16:37

Okay, I'm.

Dorian: 16:39

Oh, now I am Good.

Kyle: 16:40

Great.

Dorian: 16:41

Just one of those glitches of the world there we can edit out, right you know all about that. Oh good, I do. So that's good.

Kyle: 16:49

Okay, I just wanted to. I'll go back and just want to say that it's so well said. As I entered that section with you, you know it's kind of vague. What are my priorities, what areas are really important? And that gives a really nice framework for areas to really focus on and apply your purpose and values to. Could you talk a little bit more, give some examples, about how people apply purpose and values to the puzzle pieces? You know how they use their purpose and values to design those areas of their life.

Dorian: 17:21

Sure. So, sort of thinking back to an earlier question tied into this one, kyle, you know, sometimes people sort of say I don't know what gives me purpose. And it Purpose doesn't have to be with a big capital P, it can be a little P. So regardless of your age, it may be helpful to kind of think about as you're growing up, were there things that really you did, things that became hobbies, people you admired that did things. What were they? You know, as you're kind of going through life, have there been things that interest you that you've had to put aside Because there's just not time for it. So it's helpful, at different stages of a life, to resurrect some of those ideas you know and to think about, you know, what are things that kind of make my juices flow, what are things that excite me, that you know where I feel connected and let yourself think about. What is it that makes me come alive, what is it that the world needs? And sometimes that helps you begin to think about what the purpose is. It can be nurturing in a relationship. It can be, you know, dealing with parents, siblings, nieces, nephews. It can be volunteering. It can be being engaged in a cause that's important to you. It could be political, it could be a societal. You know, the planet, climate change, there's no right way. But what I do find is that the more we feel like we matter, you know that we can make a difference for ourselves and others. Even a smile and kindness, you know, goes a long way and can help you feel a sense of purpose.

Dorian: 19:11

So you know, and there has actually been some research saying that you know, people often will talk about maybe when they're not working, or not working in the same way that they're going to volunteer. Studies show that some people can start new things later and many do start now. You know, oftentimes it can be so rewarding at whatever phase of life you are now. But to think about you know what are things I really believe in a lot, what might be little, tiny ways that I can give back at whatever age I am now. Maybe volunteering, you know, might be sending a check. You know there's no right way, but take that with you, develop it now.

Dorian: 19:55

And I always say to people retirement is changing. It's not so much a destination, it's more a transition and a journey, and it's helpful to think about what you're retiring to and what you're going to take with you, what retires with you or doesn't retire in the sense of needing to stop, but maybe there's, you know, causes or things that you want to get involved with now that you'll have more time for later. So you know, I do think, and I've often found that you know people who aren't working, or aren't working in the same way, may have the initial honeymoon period, but then it can be a few months later, or years or whatever. Oftentimes people say something's missing and I think what I discover is that what's missing is that connection, engagement and purpose and meaning. So don't be frightened by the term purpose. It doesn't have to be a big, big P. Just what makes you come alive, what's a way that you know, what's a part of you you want to develop, maybe a way to get back.

Kyle: 21:00

Yeah, that's a great way to say it, and it feels like, as we talk about it, it puts you on solid footing for some of your planning and problem solving. You know, taking advantage of those areas where you feel strong in, and then you know it all goes together in terms of then building up some of those areas that you're not feeling as on solid footing about. For example, people might not in midlife, may not be feeling as on solid footing about finances, and so I'd kind of like to speak to some of these areas, to people who might be feeling that way about finances. What are some guidelines or examples that people in mid-age should consider if they're not feeling great about where their finances are at this time in their life?

Dorian: 21:46

So again, a really good question. I think it's never too early and never too late to think about finances. It's often helpful and again it can be with you know, a friend, a partner, a sibling or and or a financial planner. It's helpful to think about what were the money messages that you had in the past. How was money handled growing up? You know, sometimes in good ways, sometimes not. So it's helpful to think about what are the money messages that you carry with you that might be helpful and might be getting in your way. So how was money talked about? How was it spent? Was there any emphasis on saving, on investing? It may help you kind of look at what areas you want to develop.

Dorian: 22:37

Sometimes people can also benefit from having what's called a money dialogue. This may seem sort of strange but you know it's based on what's called the style approach, which is externalizing a kind of a part of ourselves. So you can put money on a chair, for example, have a pillow that's money and have a dialogue with your money you know to be able to talk about. You know so money kind of. You know how come you are so difficult for me to deal with and money might come back and say well, look at what you do, you crumple me up and you stick me in your purse and you don't respect me at all. You spend me as though you know I'm growing on trees and I'm not, and Just using that as an example. I mean, I do my money up and put it in my purse, but but have a dialogue with money, and freely I mean I, and this is at whatever age. I think it could be helpful To talk to a financial person.

Dorian: 23:32

There also are some really great financial literacy programs for men and women. What I have found, and maybe shifting the little cause, more and more women are working in the financial world. But in my generation often the men were more in charge of the money, many even admitting that they didn't really know what they were necessarily doing, but it was just expected that they be in charge and the women deferred. And it is important to understand that. My, my interest in the money situation really developed when my dad had died and my mother Just really was so dependent on him financially and didn't even really kind of want to learn about it, and this was like thirty, five, forty, almost forty years ago now. That got me really interested in women and money and couples and money. There's some good literary programs. It's empowering for men and women to learn what you can about it. Don't be afraid to say you don't understand it. You know there are so many online courses, as I said there, these literacy programs. None of us are born knowing it all and you know, I do think it's helpful at whatever age to just admit that maybe you had some complicated money messages from the past.

Dorian: 24:51

We also develop what are called money personality types. You know some people are savers, some are spenders. You know it can be combinations. Some you know our monks. You know I don't want to spend anything, you know kind of very frugal. And what can happen in a relationship is, you know, you may have a very different personality, money personality type and your partner and that can create conflicts. So Money often people avoid conversations about it. They avoid puzzling it out for themselves and talking together. I really encourage people to do it. Don't be so afraid of it. Often I say when I give talks, money, sex and death are sort of tapering me. I'm saying you can talk about all of them. Yeah, avoiding it doesn't change what's actually there underneath and you'll never regret having a handle and a plan on that.

Kyle: 25:41

Easy for me to say, but it's a great reminder to hear it from you. What about health? I know in midlife, you know it's stressful, there's a lot of responsibilities. Our bodies are aging. What about those people that aren't feeling Good where they're at with their health at this point but they want to have a longer, healthy life? What words of wisdom would you share to them? Or how do you counsel your clients In that situation.

Dorian: 26:09

Yeah, the first is noticing that and being aware of it and mindful of first step might be actually talking to your primary care doctor or nurse practitioners or you know whoever is available to you. You know, if you're not at a feeling at a good place in terms of your body and exercising, first of all, therapy, coaching, senior PCP, nutrition can be helpful. You don't want to suddenly start exercising if you haven't done it, as though you've been doing it forever. Ties into the kind of the small steps. You know it's, you know, maybe A little bit of money in there to get a personal trainer, you know, for, you know, an initial consultation at least, and maybe, you know, at the beginning, on a more regular basis to it becomes sort of part of your repertoire. You don't want to overdo it to start with. You want to build up slowly, but no, you can build up again.

Dorian: 27:09

There's studies showing that even in their 90s, people who start being able to do some you know, small amounts of exercise can really help themselves. And if, in fact, you know, people talk about wanting to age well and all, exercise is such an important part. And what you eat, and you don't have to do it alone, get a buddy. You know sometimes it's hard, but get a walking buddy or get a buddy to go to the gym with. Again, I think during COVID it was harder, people were staying inside. I think walking maybe was one of the few things you know people could do. But don't feel like if you haven't been doing it it's too late, it's not, it's never too late. I usually don't like to say always and never, but it's never too late to you know. I mean, I do think no matter what age you are, you can benefit from starting to take care of yourself. But it's developing a new habit, and developing new habits take time. You might have to unlearn some old messages. Some studies say it takes 21 days to develop a new habit. Others say it takes 90 days, maybe it's somewhere in between. It takes time, no, and they're going to be. You know, a few steps forward and back and forward and back. So when you know, say you've exercised for a while and you're starting to feel good and then you're at a plateau, it's easy to give up and you might feel like it's back, but it's not all the way back. View the few steps back is just retuning, refueling and then move forward again, I think asking for help is often hard for people.

Dorian: 28:41

So I want to encourage your listeners. It's not a weakness to ask for help, whether it be for a therapist or coach, your medical practitioner, nutritionist, you know, personal trainer. We live in an interdependent world and you know, I think the idea of having to be so super independent can work. As a person, I mean, yes, we want to have autonomy, we want to be as able and capable as we can, but you know, I think it helps to think about, the world is sort of interconnected and we help each other. Well said, that goes right into the next area of relationships, you know.

Kyle: 29:30

I know personally as a gen X or somebody in my late, late, late late forties, I have such a mix of relationships. I have some relationships where I was selfish and I hurt somebody and there's regret over that. I have Long term relationships that are really important to me. I have work relationships, I have parent relationships with other generations and it's it's a mix, and so I guess I throw that to you in terms of what would you say to people that may not be feeling a strong this area? They have some regret they're having, they're not satisfied with their relationships, or how can they in building with, building on other relationships that are positive, and I'm kind of throwing that wide open edge.

Dorian: 30:18

Sure, I think relationships are so important I mean, again, I keep referring to studies, but there really have been important studies about the importance of relationships. Many different levels of them is actually a more recent study about. You know, people in the last decade of life, say in their 90s, late 90s, hundreds even and many reflect on more than anything meaningful relationships is what's important. What I think is important is, you know, if you get into this fixed mindset of beating yourself up, that is not helpful. So, again, I think the growth mindset becomes important here.

Dorian: 30:57

We all have a number of different relationships and we all do make mistakes. None of us are perfect and it often is important, you know, to let yourself reflect on some of the relationships, the good, bad and the ugly and to think about and maybe work with yourself or with the help of a therapist or a coach or a new partner or friend, you know, try to take stock of what you bring to the relationship, people that bring things, and sometimes people can bring out kind of the worst in each other and sometimes people can bring out the best in each other and you know it's helpful to think about what you bring to a relationship.

Dorian: 31:41

Are there any patterns to it, you know? Are there ways, you know that Maybe it's hard for you to listen or really appreciate differences and you know kind of get get stuck in your own way if somebody disagrees with you. I mean, what are the issues at work? I think self awareness reflecting on it I mentioned before. I mean I think I think self forgiveness as well as sometimes, forgiveness of others, is really very helpful and important. None of us are perfect. We all make mistakes. The important thing is to learn from the mistakes, also trying to be grateful. We could focus and maximize all the negative things about people and life and all of that. That's a choice, or we can try to not deny it, be aware of the negatives but not magnify it so much that we lose sight of what are some positive learnings I can have from it.

Dorian: 32:44

I can't change it. But what can I learn from it? There's a question that I like that I pose to clients. That's from George Kinder, who is still a financial life planner. He has three questions.

Dorian: 33:00

I love the last one and I modified it a little and added one little part that he thought was helpful for it too, and this may seem morbid to some of your listeners, but I think it's very powerful. It's not morbid. Imagine that you went to your doctor who said you only have 24 or 48 hours to live. At whatever age you are, what would you regret not having done? And then I've added or said Because I think the relationship part is so important too, and I think it's a really important and profound question, I encourage your listeners to think about it because it can bring you back to whatever age you are now to say what are some of the things that are relationships that I want to repair while I can, so I don't have regrets at the end and some of them, the people may not be alive anymore.

Dorian: 33:57

I'm a believer that you can do some repairing, even by writing a letter to somebody who's no longer here, because the being able to write and reflect and look at the part you bring and being able to own your truth or your perception of it, which may be different from others, can be really helpful If the person is still alive and there is a wish to try to repair that relationship. Don't keep putting it off, and it may be hard. There's things called gratitude letters, where you can write a letter thanking somebody for the impact and importance that they had in your life. There also can be forgiveness letters where maybe you feel like you've wronged somebody.

Dorian: 34:44

There's so many different ways if you think about it that it's not like it has to be static. I mean, if you know relationships, that area is not one that you do well in get some help. Certainly there's so many self-help books and programs and also helpful both therapists and coaches out there, but it does mean admitting that none of us are perfect. We all have strengths. We all have limitations. Sometimes strengths can even be limitations. But if you want to live your best life, try to make it that way by owning your own part in what you bring to relationships. Maybe, if you're in a new relationship and it's problematic, maybe it's important for them to get go to get some help for it.

Kyle: 35:35

Yeah.

Dorian: 35:36

Yeah. And not be afraid to do that.

Kyle: 35:39

Go ahead. I'm sorry, adorene, you need to go to earlier. That is so wonderfully said. Thank you for that. It clicked for me as you were talking about that. As you were talking that growth mindset really facilitates humility in relationships. I know you can be defensive when somebody is open with you or communicate something that may be hard. If you are recognizing that you can change, I think that sets you up for more humility and change rather than an antidote to some of that defensiveness that we might have in relationships. That can really harm relationships, I think.

Dorian: 36:16

And it's so easy to get caught in a relationship and sort of win, lose my way, your way. Try to think of the win. Win, open a space for the relationship, which is sometimes it's your way, sometimes it's my way. Agree to disagree, but appreciate what you're hearing. I think it's helpful.

Kyle: 36:33

Yeah, yeah. One last area I wanted to talk about within your puzzle framework is spirituality. You touched on that earlier, but let's go deeper. For those that maybe struggling in this area, what are some things you would say to those people?

Dorian: 36:50

So again, spirituality doesn't have to be this big S that feels so scary to people. It really is looking inward, in a sense, and letting yourself reflect. It's often helpful to think about what are three to five things I'm proud of. What are some things that were peak experiences? Why? Let yourself be outside in nature and see if you can turn off the devices and stuff and just walk and notice and be mindful and observe. That's the beginning of allowing yourself to open to the spiritual ie, what's inside of you, and it helps us often just realize the interconnection that we all have.

Dorian: 37:37

There are many people talk about mindfulness and meditation. I think those all can be very important things. They're wonderful meditation tapes. Generally, in most community they're insight meditation centers. There's a number of different apps that people talk about. I think Headspace is one. They're a number. One of the benefits of the internet is you can Google any of these topics and be led to something. You can experiment with some meditation tapes and work on letting yourself relax, one part that I recommend to everybody.

Dorian: 38:19

I was trained in the relaxation response like maybe 40 plus years ago. The first part of it is the breathing, which is just knowing. We all breathe, of course, but deep breathing. Your listeners can try it right now. Just take a deep breath in through your nose, hold it for four to five seconds and then exhale through your mouth and take another deep breath and as you exhale, just silently to yourself, just say relax. And it can be any message you want to say to yourself, but as you exhale it can be relax, it can be be present, it can be push away distracting thoughts or feelings, it can be feel your inner strength. Don't react, act. All these messages can be helpful.

Dorian: 39:14

And what I recommend to people, which was recommended to me many years ago, is like once an hour, if you can just and it can be more often if you tend to realize you tend to be a reactive person or you get anxious, or you know you're depressed or whatever, just take a couple of moments for a couple of breaths that just center you. Your eyes can be open if people are around. They can be closed. If the once an hour or every half hour or whatever doesn't work, many people say try it at a time of transition. So when you finished a conversation or before you're going to start one, or when you stand up or when you go into a different room.

Dorian: 39:53

The more that you allow yourself to just still yourself a little, to quiet yourself a little, you center yourself and you can discover huh, you know, you can let yourself, maybe begin to feel some feelings that are in there. I think that's the beginning of opening yourself to yourself and spirituality. So it's a deeper connection both with yourself. But it is humbling, as you said, it can be just realizing we're one little part in this. I mean, I think for me, being out in nature, I mean I find walking and appreciating and really feeling gratitude of well, I'm just looking outside my window right now just how beautiful the world is, and you know that is part of spirituality. So don't be afraid of it. You know for some it has a religious connotation, for others it's just part of like, what's it all about? Why am I here? What's you know? And not that anybody's going to have all the answers, but sometimes it's just soothing and feels so wonderful to just know you're not alone, we're part of this big wide universe.

Kyle: 41:05

I love that perspective. So much the puzzle, the framework, the mosaic, the midlife mosaic as I'd like to call it. It becomes clearer as we think about these things and start to move forward with some of these ideas and find what works for us as we kind of get towards the end here, dorian, what are some practical steps that you would suggest for people seeking to craft this midlife mosaic?

Dorian: 41:31

Well, I think there are a number of things. I think the beginning is to let yourself reflect about yourself and your life. There's a wonderful little exercise you can do which is kind of a life review. You can take a piece of paper and write it, have a line in the middle and put the year you were born and maybe put 100 years at the end and do it in segments of 10 years. You can do it in a number of ways. You can write down what were the life events that were going on around you, what were the family events going on around you, what were meaningful experiences in your life during, say, the first 10 years, next decade, next next. That can be helpful because it can again help you sometimes look and appreciate, sometimes the good, bad and the ugly, but knowing you can't change things, but looking at how you've dealt with them. So I think, taking time to reflect, there really are a lot of helpful books out there.

Dorian: 42:35

The internet can have good parts and not so good parts, but if you Google any of the things we're talking about meditation, spirituality, financial literacy, money conflicts, money issues, all of those things there's a wealth of resources. I know on my website I have some resources in these different areas, but don't be afraid to just open yourself to say I really do want to live my life as fully as possible. So I want to open to the confusions and the uncertainties and maybe come up and deal with some of the things that really feel like they're maybe still holding you back. There are therapists out there, there's coaches out there, there are different group kind of programs. So I guess what I would encourage someone to do is don't be afraid of taking stock of your life now, at whatever age you are, and really thinking about what would be some steps I can do.

Dorian: 43:39

Another little thing that can be helpful is that you put the different areas it could be the 10 must have conversations I have like finances, health and wellness, spirituality, family connections. Make yourself like a little graph. It can be a circle or it can be pillars, and then so put on the bottom health and wellness, finances, friendships, relationships, family, whatever, and then on the side, do zero to 10. And just sort of see where you are now. Maybe right now, in terms of health and wellness, you're at a two, so then, and then do it for each of those areas and you'll have like a little graph. And so then you might want to think okay, I put it at a two.

Dorian: 44:26

Why is health and wellness at a two? What would make it a two and a half? Not what will make it a 10, because that's expecting you to go from A to Z and you can't. What would make it a two and a half? Maybe just even starting to exercise, maybe calling a trainer? What would make it a two and a half? The same in the finances, what would say you have yourself at a four? What would make it a four and a half or a five? What would be the next step? That is, looking and trying to find some financial literacy. Maybe it is asking friends for suggestions or family members for suggestions of a financial person to talk to. But in each situation, what would be the next little step that could help you move along and then periodically reassess. And again, I do think little steps give you mastery. That gets you another step and another. If you try to do too much, you set yourself up to disappoint yourself and maybe fail. So be realistic.

Kyle: 45:27

Oh, that's such a great way to tie it all together, dorian you know straightforward, visual, small steps and and and just making like I'm bumbling through this. I'll edit this out, but that's. I love how you tied that all together. That was really really wonderful, as we kind of come to a close here. Are there any other resources you would recommend for our listeners seeking to learn more or to create their midlife mosaic? What resources do you recommend out there, and what do you offer as well for people that are interested in learning more?

Dorian: 45:58

So there are a lot of resources. There is what's called the Modern Elder Academy, or MEA, has a location in Baja in Mexico, and they'll be developing one in San Jose. There are programs that are online so people can look at Modern Elder Academy. There are other programs, you know. People can look for coaches, people can look for midlife career transitions.

Dorian: 46:26

In terms of what I can offer, I encourage people to go to my website, revolutionizedretirementcom. It may focus somewhat on the retirement and getting older, but I think it's applicable at whatever age. I offer coaching, therapy, speaking workshops. There's a retirement coaches association. I know your people aren't necessarily interested in retirement, but it is helpful to think about the things ahead. There's so many different programs. I do have some resources on my website. I must admit that it's not totally up to date because there's so many newer things that come.

Dorian: 47:08

I also have a free monthly interview with expert series. Some of it has to do with retirement and aging, some have to do with just living. The sign up always is the week before, so the third week of the month, the sign up on revolutionizedretirementcom it's always Tuesday at noon, Eastern time, except for December because it's too close to the holiday. Once you sign up. It's free and it's open to professionals and the public. Once you sign up, you get a recording link afterwards. In addition, I have a podcast series to celebrate. I'm now in my 11th year of this interview series. To celebrate the 10th year I started putting out on podcasts the earlier interviews. They're all free. I would encourage your listeners. You can scroll through them and see what interests you.

Kyle: 48:01

Incredible. They definitely interest me and I know what I'll be doing tonight. Dory, this has been so helpful, so thoughtful and so insightful. I want to really thank you for taking the time to be with us and thank you so much for being on the show.

Dorian: 48:17

You're welcome. Thank you for inviting me.

Kyle: 48:21

I'll stop us there.