#17 Growing Up Together: Personal Growth and Parenting in Midlife with Keri Cooper

In this episode, I am honored to have Keri Cooper on the show. Keri is a licensed clinical social worker with a passion for holistic psychotherapy for children and adolescents. During our discussion Keri shares her insights on the unique challenges faced by midlife parents of adolescents and emerging adults, and how a holistic approach can be beneficial in meeting these challenges. We also discuss the importance of helping children develop coping skills and emotional well-being and how parents can navigate situations where their children might resist holistic approaches. Keri also discusses the balance between personal growth and parenting responsibilities during midlife. Next, we discuss the role of nutrition in the emotional health of ourselves and our family members. Keri provides practical advice on simple nutritional changes that can positively impact the emotional well-being of our adolescent emerging adult children. We also explore the importance of communication and connection between parents and their adolescent and emerging adult children, with Keri offering strategies to maintain strong relationships during this transitional phase. It is a great conversation for us midlfers seeking to support our children’s emotional health and foster a strong parent-child connection during the challenging phase of adolescence and emerging adulthood.

Resources from this episode:

Keri's Website: kericooperholistictherapy.com

Mental Health Uncensored, Book By Keri Cooper

Mental Health Uncensored Teen Workbook By Keri Cooper

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

No, and we'll get going. So joining us today is Cary Cooper, a licensed clinical social worker specializing in holistic psychotherapy for adolescents and children. With extensive experience in helping teens navigate stress, anxiety, depression and ADHD, cary takes an integrated, solution-focused approach to empower young individuals with the tools they need for a well-rounded and resilient life. I love it, cary. Does that sound accurate to you?

Speaker 2: 0:26

Yes, thank you.

Speaker 1: 0:27

Well then, welcome to the show, Cary. So glad you're here.

Speaker 2: 0:30

So glad to be here. Thank you for having me.

Speaker 1: 0:32

Awesome. So could you give us a little background, personal background, and tell us how you get interested in today's topics?

Speaker 2: 0:39

Sure. So I always loved talking to people from a very young age and I actually always knew pretty early on that I wanted to be a therapist, so I pursued it. Very traditional approach I got my master's from UPenn dove right in, always was working with children and adolescents. But when I was working with them I was in all different settings, huge clinical teams and I was like they're getting better, but not 100%. What are we missing here? And it wasn't until I had my own children. I have four kids, but one of my kids really taught me everything. Her behavior as a toddler was just really extreme and we didn't realize until later on that she has a dairy intolerance.

Speaker 2: 1:25

And when she eats dairy, she's not okay. And it made me start thinking like, wait a second, what's going on with food and mental health? And I actually went back to school to get certified as a health coach and I really started learning how much what we're eating is impacting how we're feeling, not just from a food intolerance perspective even though that is a whole conversation but really just we need nutrients. Our gut health is so important and now now we're starting to see a lot of research actually in gut health and now we're starting to see it slowly get incorporated into the mental health world. But when I started off doing this 10 years ago with the holistic approach, nobody else was doing it. So I take a very holistic approach and that's why I wrote my book as well, because I really need people to see it's not just the mental aspect, it's the physical aspect as well.

Speaker 1: 2:19

Yeah, that's a really cool angle on it. Like you said, the holistic perspective is just a great way to look at it. That you know, kind of outside of the box, but really based on our science that we're getting to know, isn't it? So can you talk a little bit about some of the primary challenges you see midlife parents have with adolescents and and emerging adults even?

Speaker 2: 2:39

Yeah, I mean there's so many. Yeah, there is.

Speaker 1: 2:42

This could be, you know, a mini series, but you know, what do you see as some of the primary ones in your practice?

Speaker 2: 2:50

Parenting is not easy. No, it just isn't, and everybody needs to realize that all parents are struggling because we're trying to do the right thing. It is hard, it's just hard. So I, I one, want parents to realize that nobody has it figured out not me, not nobody. We're all trying our best and this is just, you know, guidance on how you can try to do even better. But I think one of the things that parents don't always look at is just coming back to the basics.

Speaker 2: 3:20

You know, we're so concerned about the bigger picture and, oh, do they have a college counselor and you know tutors for this class and that class. But let's get back and say are they hydrated? Mm, hmm.

Speaker 2: 3:32

Are your kids drinking water? Which? Is so important in terms of their focus and, you know, detoxing and keeping cells healthy. So I think that it's the basics that the parents are really forgetting at this point, because they're just so overwhelmed with everything else they need to do, and it's your constant feeling of having to keep up with the Joneses you know, and I think that's making a lot of stress come off to these kids.

Speaker 2: 3:59

They're so busy and the schedules are so busy and the parents are trying to keep up with these busy schedules and I think that's the biggest thing I'm seeing right now with parents. They're trying to do everything they possibly can to help their kids and really they're doing too much in harming their kids.

Speaker 1: 4:14

Yeah, yeah, right, like you said, it's so challenging Sounds like you're talking about kind of stacking the deck in their favor in terms of having those fundamentals. You know the nutrition and some of the holistic aspects in place. So can you talk a little bit here about how a holistic approach, especially with midlife, those us midlife parents, that's kind of our niche here can kind of meet these challenges that you're talking about.

Speaker 2: 4:40

Yeah Well, I always encourage parents to be doing the same thing that they're preaching to their kids.

Speaker 1: 4:46

Okay, good point. You know, as you say, it is just like, well, yeah, but we need to hear it over and over, don't we?

Speaker 2: 4:53

But we're not.

Speaker 1: 4:54

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 4:55

You know, and as parents, as midlife parents, we are so stressed ourselves. We need to be engaging in self care, which is exactly what I really talk to kids about. But the kids can't do it on their own. It really needs to be a family effort, and the parents, again, they need this. So, when we talk about the physical elements of self care and what that looks like, are the parents hydrated? Like are you walking around with your water bottle Because you need to be and your kid needs to be too? Right.

Speaker 2: 5:27

You know, are you eating well? And that's a huge topic of what do family dinners look like? Are there family dinners? Are you eating well, or are you standing up at the counter shoving food into your mouth as you're running to another activity with one of your kids? They're seeing everything. You're doing so to make sure that you're incorporating healthy food on a daily basis family dinners when you can. And the biggest thing I'm noticing, with midlife parents especially. I was out to dinner recently a bunch of us and I realized that all of my friends that I was out to dinner with, all these moms have group chats at like two in the morning and I was like wait a second, do none of you sleep? And they were like no, what? Nobody is sleeping and our kids need to sleep and we need to sleep.

Speaker 1: 6:18

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 6:19

And it's unbelievable how many parents aren't sleeping.

Speaker 1: 6:24

Yeah, it seems crazy. What you're saying seems crazy, but it's also as it rings true. This is kind of off our script, carrie, but like, how did we get to this point? I mean, where did this come from? I heard you say keeping up with the Joneses and trying to keep people, or having kids in activities. It sounds like, in some ways, good intentions, in some ways socialization, but how can we have a little bit more awareness of why it's this way?

Speaker 2: 6:53

We've swung too much on the other side. It's what's happened. And it's interesting because when people talk about COVID and the shutdown of COVID, one of the more positive things that came- All right, so we've swung too far.

Speaker 2: 7:06

We have definitely swung too far. We have tried to do too much and we've become too overly involved, too overly scheduled and we're not allowing our kids to problem solve on their own. We're not allowing them to develop their own self-confidence that they could problem solve on their own. And, unfortunately, when we are too involved when they're younger, where does it stop? So if they're texting you during high school that they failed a test, what do you think is gonna happen at college? And I do. I have many college students that I work with that are texting their parents, being like I'm gonna argue with my roommate. What do I say? You need to let them problem solve some of this.

Speaker 1: 7:48

Yeah, that's really interesting because as a youngster we didn't have that. It's just a matter of today. We can't blame the children for wanting help from their kids and we can't blame the parents for wanting to respond and be helpful. But there's a balance there. Like you say, how do kids develop good emotional well-being? Well, they solve some of their own problems, right?

Speaker 2: 8:08

Yes.

Speaker 1: 8:09

And so.

Speaker 2: 8:11

Yeah, it's so crucial that they're able to problem solve and as adults we've become way too involved in every aspect of their life, especially socially. They don't really have a lot of free play anymore that doesn't have an adult supervising it. So it's so important when they're young especially, to be able to have them like free play, without it being in a structured environment, so they can problem solve on their own. But this also goes into as they get older. I see more and more parents getting involved in social situations and social arguments between kids that they should not be involved in. If nobody's life is in danger, if nothing is massively extreme, if there's no severe bullying, if there's an argument, you have to let them figure that out on their own. And they will, and it's gonna be messy, but that's how they're learning.

Speaker 1: 9:34

Yeah, again, it's a long-term view that. It is. You know we, when we're as parents, we want the best. When we see our kids upset, we wanna help. That's natural.

Speaker 2: 9:44

Well, that's what it is. When you see your child upset because maybe they weren't invited somewhere, it is very easy to want to call that other parent and be like why wasn't my kid invited? And she's upset and this is wrong, and you can't do that. And the reality is your child will not always be invited somewhere and they need to be able to learn to deal with those feelings and that's okay.

Speaker 1: 10:07

Yeah, again, I'm recognizing the technology here. Like back in the day, it was a lot difficult for parents to either write each other a letter or recall each other on the landline to discuss these things. Sometimes we just parents didn't have the availability or to do that, and so as kids we dealt with it a little bit more, and I think for me it's helpful to remember yeah, I felt that way. I felt that way when I was a kid.

Speaker 2: 10:29

Yeah, we all felt that way, even as adults, like you're gonna be left out.

Speaker 1: 10:33

Yep, and it's unrealistic for our kids to be spared from that. And so, like you said, if we think about that as a natural part of human growth and that it is a part of growth, it might be easier to kind of step back from that and let them solve that, which it sounds like you're advocating, which makes sense, that helps kids develop their emotional well-being and their coping skills. So that sounds like one strategy. What else would you say to parents that are wanting to build coping skills and emotional well-being in their kids?

Speaker 2: 11:03

Yeah, besides being able to problem solve on their own and develop their own self-esteem and self-confidence with that, they have to be able to deal with disappointment. They also need to be able to handle other negative emotions and just natural life consequences. As parents we've kind of scooped in and stopped a lot of consequences from happening in their lives. And listen if they don't study for a test and they fail, they fail. They should not then have their parents saying, oh but they had a rough night or we didn't have time, Just let them fail the test. It's not the end of the world and they're going to recover and they're going to learn for next time that they need to be more engaged in their schoolwork. But when we're not allowing these kids to receive any type of consequences, it's a problem, because at some point in life they're going to receive consequences.

Speaker 1: 11:55

And that really is a win-win for everybody. Even like the parents when they take on every problem that the kids have. That's kind of making the problem worse for themselves, isn't it? It leaves less headspace and energy for the things that they need to accomplish.

Speaker 2: 12:13

Absolutely. You get so stressed out by what's going on with your child and listen. As parents, we're always going to feel upset when something is negative going on with our children, but we also need to take a step back and realize that so often they could solve it on their own or they could just handle these feelings of being disappointed and I think also kind of as a society, we've gotten away from that and we don't want anyone's feelings hurt, and the reality is people's feelings are going to be hurt.

Speaker 1: 12:42

That's unavoidable, isn't it?

Speaker 2: 12:44

Completely. We need to be mindful of that, it's okay.

Speaker 1: 12:48

It really is. It really is. We are dealing with adolescents and emerging adults that we all love, but we know that they're in a unique stage of their lives in terms of their social, emotional development and maturity. So sometimes I think kids can be resistant to some of these things that we're talking about from a holistic perspective, like sleep eating. Well, how can parents kind of navigate those situations when kids are resistant to those approaches?

Speaker 2: 13:19

So much of it is about modeling and educating. You cannot tell a kid at this point you have to go to sleep. At this time I mean it's just not going to happen and you're going to get into battles for no reason at all. You're not going to win. I always tell parents pick your battles very carefully. So what I tell parents is talk to your child, say you know what? I've noticed that I'm not getting good sleep and I don't have patience the next day. And maybe you've noticed I don't have patience the next day. And I'm going to work on that and I'm really going to prioritize my sleep and I'm going to put my phone on June, not disturb, and I'm going to wind down earlier and really work on getting a solid eight hours, because you're modeling the behavior, you're educating them about it and then they kind of can take it or run with it if they want.

Speaker 2: 14:05

You know I do have a rule in my house, you know talk about pick your battles. This is one of my battles. You may not have electronics in your bedroom at night. They have to come out. Nothing good is happening on a phone at two in the morning and it's just disrupting their sleep. So that is one of the battles that I do pick, but it's also about being able to say to your child when they come home saying they have a headache oh, did you drink water? Because I know that could influence a headache. It's about sitting down and having family dinners together. All the research is showing family dinners your child is less likely to be on drugs. Your child is more likely to get better grades.

Speaker 2: 14:47

You need to sit down and connect and have that healthy meal and have your children involved in the prepping of the meal. That's a life skill. They need to know how to cook. Have your child say like what? Maybe they'll try. What will they maybe like?

Speaker 2: 15:04

I know there's a lot of picky eaters out there and I think that's become more common than not picky eaters because we again have been catering too much and saying, oh well, they don't like that. So I'm not gonna ever make them try it or eat it and I'm just gonna change everything. It used to be back in the day like your parents would make, like a meal. That's your meal and I do encourage the one meal, but I do encourage trying to have elements in it that everybody may be okay with eating and then they can kind of like pick apart the meal. I'm not a fan of like finish your plates, because your children really need to be able to listen to their own bodies about when they're full. But I am a big believer in encouraging one bite of a vegetable and explain to them. Sometimes it takes 30 tries before you like a food.

Speaker 1: 15:53

Yeah, yeah, I love the long-term view you have here, carrie. That's exactly right. And speaking of long-term, I think I always need to hear it as often as I can about how nutrition impacts emotional wellbeing and how we can integrate this into our parenting approach. You've hinted at some of that. It's more than hinting, actually, but what else would you like our listeners to know about that?

Speaker 2: 16:16

Yeah, the research that's going on now about gut health and mental health is really showing such a link. And 90% of our chemicals are actually made in our gut. So when we talk about kids not having the right chemicals to feel good and to deal with stress and anxiety, you have to go back to the gut. That's where they're made. And your child is not going to have the right chemicals if they're eating processed food that really has no nutrients.

Speaker 2: 16:42

And the other issue with the processed food is that we're spiking the blood sugar constantly and then we're coming crashing down, and it's not just about the sugar that they're ingesting, it's how this food is being broken down. It is broken down basically into just sugars. So incorporating protein into the diet is really important fruits and vegetables and, as a parent again, like you need to model that and say like I noticed that I'm crashing every afternoon, I need to incorporate protein. I'm going to start having this for breakfast. Or I'm making a smoothie with chia seeds and flax seeds and who wants some? And encouraging it that way. But they have to see you doing it. If all they're seeing you do is eat processed food and living off coffee, that's the example you're setting.

Speaker 2: 17:27

So it's important to come back to yourself.

Speaker 1: 17:29

Yeah, I'm laughing because I'm an imperfect parent. I'm a hard parent, just like everybody listening here that's breathing and has a beating heart. I feel like there's almost, and I try to eat healthy and I feel like my kids kind of have this defense mechanism like, oh that's not cool, dad. So that's just a comment, I'll probably cut out Carrie, but I think it does take some resilience and some perseverance to recognize that it really is being a good parent and being good to yourself to eat well, to sleep well. Even though they may not be fully grasping that just yet, it's part of the process.

Speaker 2: 18:14

Right. And again, they're always seeing what you're doing and you're planting more seeds than you realize. So even the simple stuff like having a bowl of fruit on the table where it's just in their sight, you'll start noticing all of a sudden like they grab for it more. Now, if you told them go eat an orange, they're probably like no Right. But if you just leave the fruit out and that's what I tell parents a lot with books I have a workbook for teens and I say just get it and throw it in their bedroom and don't say anything.

Speaker 1: 18:42

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 18:43

You know, lots of times like I'll go to the library, get my kids books and I just throw them in the bedrooms and then I'll notice like the book open to a different page. And don't comment on it just.

Speaker 1: 18:53

That's right. That's right, and it is kind of just normalizing. Normalizing these types of behaviors eating well, reading, sleeping well and then I think that's part of the process two of them discovering oh, I feel better when this must be why my dad does it. Oh, it's normal, you know. So I can.

Speaker 2: 19:11

That's the thing that's so interesting is that once they start doing this, they're like oh, I get it. And a lot of times when kids are in my office, when it comes to hydration, especially the way I get them to start drinking more water is by telling them the physical benefits, especially about you know, your skin's gonna look healthier. Oh, you look better, yeah.

Speaker 1: 19:33

Right.

Speaker 2: 19:35

The walk looks important to them.

Speaker 1: 19:37

Exactly, exactly. So, kari, I think I'm gonna move into communication, but I wanna give you the opportunity. Was there anything else? Do you want me to ask anything? Anything else you want to say about nutrition? On take two here, I think it sounded great to me.

Speaker 2: 19:49

No, it's fine.

Speaker 1: 19:50

Okay, cool. Well then I'm going to switch into communication, and now we can feel like we're back on track, so thank you again for doing that. Sure, oh, great stuff, kerry, great stuff, and a lot of this is communication in a way. And I know that's another part of your holistic approach to parenting. So talk to us a little bit about how midlife parents can communicate better with their adults and emerging adults, and about emotional wellbeing. Towards that go a mutual goal.

Speaker 2: 20:17

So in terms of communication, I think one of the most important things that parents needs to do is to talk less and listen more. And it sounds so simple but it's not. And kids, when they're in my office, that's what they complain about. They will say to me when I try to talk to my parents, they try to problem solve it for me and then I get frustrated or they judge me and I get frustrated and then I shut down.

Speaker 2: 20:48

If your child is constantly feeling judged in your communication whether that be like oh, you didn't drink enough water today or you're not eating healthy when they're feeling judged, they're just going to shut down. So when you take it more from a hey, you know what I'm doing for myself or hey, you know what I learned today, and just kind of like throwing it out there without directing it so much to them, that's when they'll take it in more. Defenses aren't up. When we're feeling attacked, we're not going to hear what somebody is saying, and teenagers feel attacked very easily. So that's important to understand as a parent. The moment we say something, they take it kind of the wrong way a lot. So to try to focus not on them so much but just on what we're learning, our process, our education and letting it sit, yeah.

Speaker 1: 21:42

Again, it really is short term versus long term. You know, I think some parents in our busy lives we're just like, okay, I'm going to tell it and it makes sense, and they're going to hear it, you know, and just hoping that that'll make the change. But as you're saying, and probably as most of us have experienced, it doesn't work that way.

Speaker 2: 21:58

Yeah, and so much of it. Again is not what you say, as much as what you're doing. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm. You know, I have parents who always tell their kids like you're on your screen too much. You're on your screen too much. And the same kids turn to me and they're like do you know how much they're playing Candy Crush when they're on their phone?

Speaker 1: 22:16

And.

Speaker 2: 22:16

I'm like yeah, yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1: 22:18

So, yeah, I'd like to talk a little bit more about communication in terms of strategies or main things for us to focus on. We can't change everything, but main things that really make a difference as we try to stay connected with our children in these phases.

Speaker 2: 22:33

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 22:34

I know I like to lead you on to one thing I know is big for you, which is boundaries. Yeah, yeah. That's a thing we talk about a lot, but it still can't be heard enough. So could you talk about that and then other communication strategies that parents could use?

Speaker 2: 22:47

Well, in terms of boundaries, our children are not us. They are their own human beings. We need to respect that and we need to respect their own boundaries as well. The thought process of like, well, I'm the parent and if I want to talk to them, they need to talk to me now is not helpful. It's about respecting their boundaries, respecting them as human being.

Speaker 2: 23:07

Many times, as a parent, we're so excited to see our kids after school. We're like tell me all about your day, how is everything? And they're just like oh, my gosh, just stop. And it's not because they don't want to talk to you, it's because they are overwhelmed from their own day. They need a moment to shake it off and to kind of, you know, reprocess, so allowing them to have those boundaries. You know, we want our children to be able to say no to somebody. We want our child to be able to say like no, I need to put myself first. So we need to respect that in them. We need to respect that they may need an hour after school of just we're not going to see them until they're ready to come down and then talk to us, and that's okay. It's not all about us. We need to respect them.

Speaker 1: 23:53

Yeah, yeah, exactly. It's something I'm not great at just yet, but I think it's helpful for me to be more of a being parent than an action parent, like to have that perfect plan tonight and to have fun and for us to have a great conversation. Sometimes it's counterintuitive, but it's better. If I'm there, I've supplied a nutritional meal.

Speaker 1: 24:19

We can talk, you can if you need space cool, and that right, I feel like it sounds like lower expectations of a parent, but it really I feel like it actually counterintuitively works differently than you know being able to talk it does.

Speaker 2: 24:37

It's like the less we talk, the more they're willing to talk to us. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. You know and you can always, you know throw out guidance in the conversation, but never this is what you need to do. Mm-hmm. Or why didn't you do it this way? It could always be like oh, when I went through something like that, this is kind of how I handled it and this was my thought process behind that.

Speaker 1: 25:03

Yeah, it's a lot of modeling and natural allowing, honoring the child's ability to figure out what works for them, what is working in their life, and that's a more internalized and long-lasting form of development.

Speaker 2: 25:18

And that's actually a really you know good point that you bring up is that they are their own person. So the way we do something is not going to be the way they do something, and that doesn't mean it's wrong. Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2: 25:30

And you know, I think sometimes parents think, well, if they're not acting the way I act, then that must be wrong, and kids are. We're all different human beings. Some of us are more talkative than others, and that's okay. You know, we all express love in our own ways. Some kids are huggers, some kids are not huggers, and they're all allowed to have their own individual identity. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Speaker 1: 25:52

Great, great stuff, Carrie. So much I've really enjoyed this so far, you know, and so I really kind of want to get to getting to some key takeaways and finding resources, too, for those parents that want to find more. So you have so much great experience and I love your perspective on this, and I'm going to ask you a really difficult question If you had one take-home message for the listeners, our midlife listeners what would that be?

Speaker 2: 26:20

Oh, it's so hard to do one take-home message, but I am going to do it.

Speaker 1: 26:22

You can cheat, you can cheat.

Speaker 2: 26:24

As a take-home message, I'm going to tell you this as parents, you need to be engaged in self-care. It really makes everything in the house run better. So that is being a good parent is taking your own self-care.

Speaker 1: 26:44

Yeah, and you've made the point very, very well on this podcast that it has ripple effects. It's not just about you, it's modeling, it's giving your kids opportunities to develop that themselves.

Speaker 2: 26:56

And then you also are more at peace with yourself and not overrun, and you have more patience.

Speaker 1: 27:04

Yeah, we're going to have to do a part two on self-care for parents.

Speaker 2: 27:07

Yes.

Speaker 1: 27:09

This has been great, carrie, and I'm serious about that, but what other resources would you recommend for listeners who want to learn more about this topic, things that have influenced you or things that you might have for parents? What would you recommend for those that want to dive into a little bit more of what we've been talking about?

Speaker 2: 27:28

So I am a huge reader of the subject of mental health. I actually really enjoy it. So I have taken everything that I read and everything I've experienced in 20 years and put them into two books, so they're available on Amazon. One is Mental Health Uncensored 10 Foundations Every Parent Needs to Know, and the other one is a workbook for teens and it's Mental Health Uncensored 10 Foundations Every Teen Needs to Know, and they can take it through their own steps, at their own pace, and incorporate all of these principles into their own life.

Speaker 1: 28:02

Awesome, yeah, and I'll put the links in the description here, and I think and you have a website I'll link to too.

Speaker 2: 28:07

It's Carrie Cooper Holistic Therapy, and Carrie is K-E-R-I.

Speaker 1: 28:11

Okay, awesome, I'm definitely going to check that out. There's always more to learn and I love your perspective on this, carrie, so this has been really great. I just really have enjoyed this conversation. I found it really practical, down to earth and yet based on science and honoring yourself and honoring your children. So thank you so much for taking the time to do this and all that you do.

Speaker 2: 28:34

Thank you so much for having me and thank you.