Season 1 Recap with Mark Ray

It's our 20th episode! Which is milestone in and of itself. Considering 90% of podcasts don't make it past 3 episodes, we're in pretty good company. I am joined by our first episode guest, Mark Ray, Public Works Director and City Engineer for the City of Crystal, MN. Mark, who is one of the most positive people I know, helps me review the season and highlight several episodes. 

I am very thankful for the loyal following we have developed (all, about 70 of you?) and everyone else who has listened in and given us a shot. Thank you to everyone who is listening. Whether that's one episode or 20!

We are going to take a little break and as we gear up for the next season - whatever we decide that's going to be. We hope to be dropping episodes again in November. In the meantime, go back and check out the episodes you may have missed and continue to help us spread the word! 

Check out the links to our website and our YouTube page below. 

Show Notes:

https://thepublicworksnerds.com/

https://www.youtube.com/@ThePublicWorksNerds

Chapters

• 0:01 Public Works Nerds Podcast Reflections
• 16:59 Professional Associations and Favorite Episodes
• 21:48 Collecting and Utilizing Data Challenge
• 26:26 Future Guests in City Infrastructure
• 38:42 Public Works Professionals

Transcript

Mark Ray 0:01

Welcome to the Public Works Nerds podcast.

Marc Culver 0:05

Welcome to the Public Works Nerds podcast, the Public Works podcast of the nerds. To buy the nerds and for the nerds, I'm your host Marc Culver. Thanks once again for joining us. We are wrapping up our first season of this podcast. This is our 20th episode and I'm happy and excited to bring back for this 20th episode. And what better way to conclude the first season than to bring back our very first full episode guest, and that's Mark Ray, director of Public Works and city engineer with the city of Crystal, Minnesota. You may remember Mark as the guy in the dinosaur suit, and he didn't wear the dinosaur suit today, but trust me, there's plenty of video out on the internet in the dinosaur suit. So welcome back, mark. Thanks for joining me today. Looking forward to this little conversation we're going to have, why don't you go ahead and reintroduce yourself to the nerddom?

Mark Ray 1:03

Well, thank you very much, Mark again, for having me here. It's glad to be back and talking to you all again. Mark Ray, director of Public Works, city engineer for the city of Crystal. I've been there a little over eight years. For those of you unfamiliar with the area, we are just northwest of Minneapolis, just a few miles, so kind of right on the core of the Minneapolis Twin Cities area. I've been in the profession for over 15 years now and, at the end of the day, public Works makes normal happen and I love being a part of that, and Mark was the first one to say that on this podcast and we have said it multiple times in subsequent episodes.

Marc Culver 1:39

So it's a great saying and it is so true. We do make normal happen and we do get our accolades, we get our awards and stuff like that, but we really only get a lot of times we don't get noticed until something goes bad. And so we like that, we like normal and we like being behind the scenes making everything work right.

Mark Ray 2:00

Yeah, exactly, I mean the way I kind of want to say shifted. I've evolved. One of the things I describe is we're like the stage crew of our residents lives right, like we're behind the scenes making sure the show happens, and I think that's a really good metaphor for people to think about and for anybody considering a career in Public Works. You know, if you find yourself having done the stage crew thing, maybe career in Public Works is for you. Yep.

Marc Culver 2:22

Yep, so you know, just as a quick review. You know Mr Ray's episode was on emergency management and talking about Public Works role in that and Mark has a really strong background and impressive background in emergency management and helping a lot of the communities in the Minnesota Twin Cities metro area organize and through some joint powers, agreements and some things like that. So once again, thank you for all your work on that. But that's just a reminder. If you want to know more about that, go back to our first episode and listen to Mark talk about that, amongst other things. So take where do you want to stay, mark? About this.

Mark Ray 3:09

You know, like one of the, when you reached out to me, you're like, hey, would you mind coming back to the 20th episode, I couldn't help but go back and watch the intro that you and Mike did just setting this whole thing up, and in that you talked about this really being an experiment.

Mark Ray 3:25

You're shared love for Public Works, kind of that passion for learning and sharing information and just serving the public, and so I found it interesting.

Mark Ray 3:36

Along with that, it was also kind of a time in both of your careers of some pause and some reflection, and so for all of us, you know, 2020 was a huge shift, personally, professionally, with COVID and everything going on, and so, keeping that 20 theme, I really appreciate the opportunity to come here and just kind of take a pause and a reflection on where you've been. I mean, the reality is, look, you've had 20 professionals come and speak with you on a wide variety of topics the environment, asset management, traffic, communication with your staff, communication with the public, all associations, technology and, obviously, something I'm very passionate about emergency management. So you've covered all of these themes with a lot of really respected people and I think that's a really, really cool thing to share with the profession and share with the public and kind of pull back the curtain and provide that stamp shot into the profession and what we all do, yeah. So I think, yeah, it's just been a fun to watch you all kind of go with this.

Marc Culver 4:40

Yeah, and this podcast and, like you said, in our intro episode, we kind of talked about that out of the back that this podcast was going to evolve and we weren't quite sure where it was going to go and how it was going to go and things like that.

Marc Culver 4:54

But I'm really happy with the direction that we've taken and we're, first and foremost, really we want to talk about good topics. Some of that is technical, some of that is based on organizational structure, some personnel stuff, some things like that, but first and foremost we want to bring good topics to the nerds out there and we want to bring good people talking about those topics, people that are passionate about those topics like you are so passionate about emergency management and Deb Heiser is passionate about her engagement with the community and street reconstructions and things like that. And I had one episode that our next episode, our 19th episode that will drop before this that Mark hasn't had the privilege to listen to yet. We talked with a sustainability specialist in Richfield, minnesota, about solid waste and she's very passionate about that and organics in that, and so it's just great to bring passionate people talking about topics that they're passionate about to the nerddom here.

Mark Ray 6:03

So, as you look at that and I'm seeing you've known a lot of the speakers you brought on for years, if not longer. What has surprised you in this evolution, or the last 20 episodes of the young, innocent Mark you know? Now to the experienced podcaster how have you, what are some key things that stood out for you in that time? You?

Marc Culver 6:25

know, I think one of the things is just how and I don't want to say it's been really easy, but once I approach somebody about an idea, to talk about a topic, how eager and excited and willing people are to come onto the podcast and talk about these things, and just how easy it's been to keep this informal, while keeping it informal also gets some really great information out of our guests and such, and so that's kind of surprised me that it hasn't been more difficult to pull that out. I mean, it's just like I said, when somebody's passionate about something, it just it really comes out naturally and I love that. You know the conversational manner in which we do this. Otherwise, I would say, you know, one of the other things that surprised me is looking at the statistics and the data of our downloads is the reach of this, and I would love for it to be even wider and I would love to have hours of downloads in that and maybe we'll get there someday.

Marc Culver 7:34

But you know, just organically, just through social media and LinkedIn and some minor things, and maybe through some of the networks of our guests, you know we've been able to, you know, get this podcast out into Sacramento, california and Des Moines, iowa and Charlotte, north Carolina, and Kansas City and Seattle and Cincinnati, dallas, texas I mean I'm just rattling off some cities on the list here that have had multiple downloads of the podcast over this first season.

Marc Culver 8:11

So it's encouraging to see that. But then also internationally, you know we've had I think it kind of makes sense that Canada you know we'd get some downloads from Canada I mean Minnesota is kind of like basically Canada, hey. Hey, you know we love hockey and we love to elongate our vowels, so we're Canadian right but also New Zealand, a surprising number of downloads in New Zealand and Australia and even, you know, a little bit in spots of Europe. So that's been kind of interesting and I'll be interested to see how that grows. And ultimately it'd be great to get some international guests talking about some, you know, comparing and contrasting how you know maybe solid waste recycling is handled in Europe compared to the United States.

Mark Ray 9:03

But that's it. You did have Paul Pascoe on talking about his international experience. Right, we do.

Marc Culver 9:09

We asked him international stories Exactly, exactly Paul Pascoe coming on and talking about some things. That was a really good episode. Paul is a storyteller.

Mark Ray 9:21

He might be the storyteller.

Marc Culver 9:22

storyteller he is he really is, and I was just wanted to. Yeah, so that was our August 15th episode. I should have the number there but I don't have the number on there. But yeah, so just hearing those stories internationally and I've said this in a couple of episodes, and if you're listening to this and if you've made it this far into this episode, you know we would love to hear experiences and how things are handled. You know, on the gas tax, or how common is organized collection in your city or your state or your region. You know talking about associations like what are some of the really active professional associations in your area and what does that mean for you and some of the leadership in your area? But just some things like that, that trying to get a more. We would love to hear from the nerds out there their local experiences with some of the topics that we've already covered and that might lead to diving into those topics again with a different perspective, which I think would be great.

Mark Ray 10:41

Well, definitely just as quick for your audience. Paul's was episode 13. Thank you, he had that presentation. You know, I think we use the term. You know I said we talked to this earlier. Public works makes normal happen, and one of the things I really like about that term is that normal is different depending on where you are in the country, where you are in the world, and so it allows for that but still helps define what it is. We do so for talking about trash collection, for talking about water production or distribution, that may look very different, but having people come talk about their experiences still something that's very worthwhile and informative.

Marc Culver 11:17

Yeah, yeah, and I would again. I would hope that some people reach out to me, to the podcast about some of those things, with some of their experiences and maybe even say, hey, I would love to be on your podcast and talk about this and make my job a little easier as far as finding the next episode.

Mark Ray 11:36

I think one thing that we'd be remiss in this is giving a shout out to Bolden Ming for helping sponsor this. I think one of the things that's very clear is good editing matters and putting this together in a package that's appealing. It makes it easier to view and easier to engage with. So just quick shout out to Bolden Ming for putting up with you and encouraging this endeavor. Yeah, yeah, and the reach is everywhere.

Marc Culver 12:03

Yeah, and specifically the producer, Tony Solis, who's done all that editing, who's done all the recording and has really helped me. He's produced some shorts for me and some things like that for us to try to promote the podcast some more and that, and so that's been wonderful and Tony's been a great resource and I mean integral to the production of this podcast. And then we pulled in Brian Racine from Bolden Ming Studio staff as well to help out on a couple of cases. So, yes, it's that having that resource has been fantastic and allowed us to produce like a really professional audio and video.

Mark Ray 12:48

Absolutely, and I think it just helps, gets the word out, got another great way that Bolden Ming has supported the community, supporting the profession and really investing in all of us to try to grow and be better. And I think as we talk we transition into some of the conversations you've had with various associations, whether it was Scott Grayson talking about APW at the national level, your more recent one talking about the Minnesota chapter APWA, and we have a lot of people that care about the communities, but support from the corporate sponsors, such as Bolden Ming, is what is vital to making that happen. And so what have you learned in having those conversations at the national and the state level with associations? I mean, those are some very big players. The American Public Works Association has over 30,000 members across all 50 states and internationally, and so you can't help but take something away from that conversation.

Marc Culver 13:37

Yeah, I think it's been really and hopefully the listeners have gotten us out of it too.

Marc Culver 13:41

It's really interesting to hear from the leadership at APWA about some of their strategic directives and where they wanna go and how they're serving their members and really from an education perspective. But also advocacy is one of their key objectives at APWA and advocacy whether that be at a local level for more funding in that or at the national level, being that resource that the legislature the US House of Representatives and the Senate can go to as a resource to find out about what's the current state of our infrastructure and how can we help. What kind of funding do we need to address some of the issues that we're having? Out there in our public works nerds Obviously know what's going on, and organizations like APWA and ASCE and others really help get those messages to the people that are making the decisions and providing that funding. So it was really good to hear how much more of a priority that's becoming for APWA and how they're getting better at doing that and how they're becoming more respected within those national ranks.

Mark Ray 15:02

Well, the reality is we couldn't even do this profession without people too, and so you'll get some of the efforts being done at the chapter level, not only just advocating for infrastructure, but just also for careers in the public works. I think what is so fascinating I touched on all the different topics that you've had speakers on but I really think that's also a testament to the career opportunities that we have within the public works profession, whether it be public or private sector, but even there, all the job opportunities that are there, depending on where people's passions are. And so I would just encourage listeners if you heat up on something you might be interested in, there could be a role for you in public works, and I think it's something definitely to look into because it's fun, it's rewarding and obviously you can be part of a great network.

Marc Culver 15:50

Yeah, and I would say, if you have listened to an episode and you're a fledgling nerd, a public works nerd, and you wanna know more, you wanna figure out how do I get into this particular field, or find out more about this topic, or what have you, I would say any one of our guests, if you look them up on LinkedIn or look them up on their agency's website, would be more than happy to help you. If you reached out to them with a specific question, I guarantee you that they'd be happy to respond to that question and help you out, whether it's just a technical question or whether, like Mark was saying, you wanna try to figure out how to get into the industry or learn more about that specific topic. So yeah, it's.

Mark Ray 16:35

And I would take on that, I would just follow up.

Professional Associations and Favorite Episodes

Marc Culver 16:38

but if they don't know the answer, they know somebody who knows the answer, Because that is the community we have Yep, yep, and I think that was one really resounding message out of that 18th episode that we just dropped this week, just two weeks old now the local chapter of APWA. That was one of the resounding messages was just how we help each other and where we create that network. And these are professional associations, help us create this network of professionals and people that just help each other, whether that's at a committee level and actually having a product to kick out like standard specifications or recommendations on this side of the other or help with asset management systems in that, or if it's on an individual basis, just calling somebody up and saying, hey, I saw you did this. What recommendations that you have or what advice would you have if I wanted to do that here? That people network and resources is just fantastic, and the professional societies really help provide that and make that accessible to people.

Marc Culver 17:46

So let me ask you this, mark, what was your favorite episode? Now I'm gonna go through a couple of the stats here to talk about the most listened and most watched episodes from our first season. But what was your?

Marc Culver 17:59

put you a little bit on the spot here. What was your favorite? What's?

Mark Ray 18:02

your own. You can't say your own. That is fair. Well, I was actually there for my own, so, to be honest, I've not listened to my own in its entirety.

Mark Ray 18:10

Wow. I'm always as the department head. My belief is my job is to care for my people, get them the resources they need, set the genre direction and then get out of their way. And so I really appreciated episode two with Mike Thompson from Plymouth Public Works talking about kind of culture within the public works profession. I think that will continue to always be something that, as directors, we need to be very aware of and very sensitive to and supporting of. So for me that was kind of always something I was interested in enjoy listening to and getting other people's perspectives on for sure.

Marc Culver 18:46

Yeah Well, good, Good. I gotta say it's kind of like a parent with their kids. I don't know that I'm supposed to have a parent.

Mark Ray 18:55

You can answer all of them. I will totally smile and nod.

Marc Culver 18:59

But I will say that, from a technical perspective, I really enjoyed the GIS episode that were recorded or that we dropped just a few weeks ago. So episode 17. And the episode that you haven't had an opportunity to listen to yet, the one that I just recorded and will drop the week before this one does, but it would that be episode 19. And that's with the city of Richfield. There's a sustainability specialist and talking about organics and recycling and solid waste in general, and that was really informative just to hear from somebody who's gone through some implementing some of those programs. So yeah, like I said, I guess I love Nick Eggers where he talks about this water contamination issue and how he had to manage that, and Ross Bitner from Edina talking about adaptive level control system. That is a nerdy episode. We nerded out on that one.

Mark Ray 20:09

I would expect nothing less from.

Marc Culver 20:11

Ross.

Mark Ray 20:15

He is absolutely my go to guy if I would have stormwater questions. How do you do something?

Marc Culver 20:22

And then episode 16 with Deb Heiser, where we just kind of like I need a topic and we were going to talk about something else and I'm like you know what, let's just talk about city engineers. Let's talk about this organization because it's such a unique organization for cities, in particular city engineers, and it's got a really unique role in the state of Minnesota and that's an organization that's very near and dear to my heart. It was a president of recognition in 2017 and still very heavily involved. So, yeah, I really enjoyed that one.

Collecting and Utilizing Data Challenge

Mark Ray 20:57

So one of the fascinating ones, Exactly the whole smart cities thing. You know, as we talked about AI technology, you had Brian Simmons talking about UAVs and kind of that data thing. To me, that is always just as a professional one that's episode 11, by the way, is the drones? Is all that data? Yeah, and how do we handle this situation of collecting all this information, or being able to collect all this information that ties into Deb's Heiser's conversation talking about streetlight. You know there's all this information, but so what? What are you going to do with it? How are you going to process it? We obviously all know that bad data doesn't mean you have good results to it. So how do you quality control? Check into me? It's a profession. That's one of the. I don't say it's what keeps me up at night, but that's one of the ones that really I have a hard time envisioning what that future looks like and trying to find the balance of gathering data for data's sake and gathering, figuring out what that data is actionable.

Marc Culver 22:05

Yeah, and that's where I think you know, if you know, because data for data's sake, like you said, what's the purpose? You're just going to have gigabytes and gigabytes of ones and zeros somewhere.

Marc Culver 22:17

And there's cost of storing it, right, I mean, it's not a no cost, and not only a cost, but there's potential liability from a data practices perspective of people requesting that data in different formats, and that you know there's this risk reward thing of like what data is really worth collecting and keeping.

Marc Culver 22:37

And as I look at it, I think the first and foremost, if you're just collecting data for purpose of collecting data and you're not doing anything with it, then don't collect the data.

Marc Culver 22:46

I mean, I think there are ways to, depending on what kind of data we're talking about.

Marc Culver 22:54

But you know, like flow sensors or something which is just you know, which is recording the, you know the flow of a pipe or something, every minute of every day of every week of every year, that's all that will add up to a lot of data, particularly if you have more, if you have multiple sensors on the field doing that.

Marc Culver 23:11

But if you can tie that, you know just a simple little program that's monitoring that, that flow data for threshold, like if the flow gets below a certain point or forgets above a certain point, that you have a, that you an alert or alarm is triggered and it's you know you're still collecting that data which could be useful for planning purposes or looking at what is a really our lowest peak or our highest peak, and how often is this pipe at capacity or this, that and the other those are. Those could be some really good points of information for planning, long-term planning. But if you can couple that with some real time alerts, then I think you're not just collecting the data for data sake, you're also getting something out of that data in a real time fashion.

Mark Ray 24:02

So I think that's exactly part of the challenge, right? I'm always intrigued. If you're collecting flow data for sewers, for example, how are you tracking that against rainfall data? Yeah, we're looking for I and I, you know, and kind of, but it's different data sources, it's different data files. How do you combine that?

Marc Culver 24:18

Yeah, so that's not only are you trying to collect and store all this data, but, to your point, how are you aggregating this data in a meaningful way, yeah, and I think that that goes into the intentionality of how you implement this stuff and why you're collecting the data and how you're collecting it, what you're doing with it, and that's where you know it's interesting most of these episodes not all of them, but most of the episodes we ended the episode asking about you know technology, you know with the guests, like, what technology have you seen that's really made an impact on your, on this profession?

Marc Culver 24:48

And the reason that I was so excited to do this GIS episode, which was episode 17, is so many of our guests. One common theme was GIS and just how much GIS has revolutionized and become just ingrained in almost everything that we do, not only on a public works level, but so many levels of government operations, whether that be planning or community development or economic development, police, you know, looking at crime statistics and this set and the other fire and I mean just every level of government how GIS has made an impact and help manage and analyze that data that we have and also, you know, geolocate it. So there are tools, you know, within these programs, that we can use to help us manage that data and actually do something with it versus just collecting. Hey, everyone. I just want to take a quick moment to thank our sponsor, bolton Mink, who is producing and editing our podcast.

Bolton & Menk 26:03

At Bolton Mink, we believe all people should live in a safe, sustainable and beautiful community. We promise every client two things We'll work hard for you and we'll do a good job. We take a personal interest in the work being done around us and, at the end of the day, we're real people offering real solutions.

Future Guests in City Infrastructure

Mark Ray 26:25

Another fascinating thing. A potential future guest for you would be Richard McCoy from the city of Robbinsdale. One of the things I was talking to him about a month ago now at this point, and he said what he's done is after they've done like a neighborhood street reconstruction program, he's looked at like private permits over the next three years and what he says he's seen is once the city comes in and reconstructs a street, you see permits for home improvements disproportionately increase on those roads Interesting, and he's like they live on the roads right. So the idea of the city is clearly investing in a community that drives some people to invest in the neighborhood too. But that's just another great example at a city level of some just interesting data relationships and how do we use that to drive decision making and ask the questions so what? So what does this mean? And so what am I going to do with?

Marc Culver 27:17

it. What will be really interesting and say the next five to 10 years is as artificial intelligence and AI becomes more accepted, I guess, and test it more. How is AI going to help us analyze that data, find those correlations in ways that we weren't thinking of, you know, just try to find, maybe, ways that some of those data points are correlating with each other. And what does it really mean?

Mark Ray 27:48

Yeah, that's still trying to keep be cognizant that correlation does not always associate with causation, right, exactly, and so I think that's a really good starting point and I think that's going to be a fascinating to watch, like you said, and what does that mean and what does that look like, and how does that play out? And then, how is that going to look for your smaller communities as compared to your larger communities here, your counties as compared to your cities, and that's going to be different. There's going to be common themes, I think, but it's going to look a little different for everyone, and that's what's going to be so fascinating. I seriously cannot wait to see your future guests come and talk about this topic with you all.

Marc Culver 28:28

Yeah. So talking about future guests, a great segue there, as I was where I was planning on going here. You know I've had. I have to give a shout out to Carl Overly, from One sec here from Bay City, michigan, who emailed me through the website and just said, hey, you know, loving the podcast, I think this is great. And I asked him. I said you know what are some of the, what are some topics that you would like to see? And he, you know he threw out some topics. He's in a water treatment plant, he manages the water treatment plant out there and he said he would love to see some topics such as emerging treatment techniques and membrane filtration and water quality and distribution maintenance. I mean, those are some really nerdy things that I would love to dive into.

Mark Ray 29:22

Well then, you talked about PFAS, and either you're treating it as a source or saying potentially treating it as a treatment plant might be the two places where that goes and the unbelievable cost that might go into that.

Marc Culver 29:34

Yeah, so side of that, just kind of that, is maybe some seed when. What topics would you like to see, Mr Ray? What have you seen that that you would like us to maybe dive into more, or something that we haven't, you haven't even approached yet?

Mark Ray 29:49

So I think to me one of the interesting ones now we're in a drought, a lot of watering restrictions going on is the idea of gray water reuse. Yeah, but taking to a larger thing and want to be curious about his perspectives from the Met Council on look they treat water. They put it back in the Mississippi. It's clearly tested as cleaner than the Mississippi. What if we were to reroute that back up to an intake for the city of Minneapolis or the city of St Paul and trying to close that loop? What does that look like? Is that something? Is that even on the realm of feasible? Thankfully the teams it was a patch. Shay, I think, is clearly he's been on your show and unfamiliar and I would look to him and what his thoughts are and trying to create almost a closed loop for water. And what does that mean for us as communities? Looking forward with the land of 10,000 lakes within a drought for, I think, three years now?

Marc Culver 30:43

generally-ish. I think that's an interesting perspective because I think, as we all know, generally speaking, your treatment, your wastewater treatment plants are built intentionally downstream, wherever there's going to be an intake, and then, as that water mixes in with the rest of the river water and goes, slows down into other states and cities and such, and I think we always have this perspective of dilution as a solution to pollution.

Mark Ray 31:10

I would be very. I would say that's the old perspective.

Marc Culver 31:13

That's the old perspective, yeah.

Mark Ray 31:14

Especially the public. Yeah, absolutely. The reality is the water we're putting in is cleaner than the water that's already there.

Marc Culver 31:19

Yeah, yeah but what is that? What greater way to hold yourself accountable as a professional and to pump that water right back up towards the intake? And if it really isn't clean enough for you to drink it, then you shouldn't be discharging it.

Mark Ray 31:36

Well, and we know what's already happening is getting dumped in the river and getting pulled out by multiple water sources all the way down the Mississippi. I saw, like I saw, I would say 80 million people get their water from the Mississippi, from the headwaters down in the Lutheran. I can't remember where I saw that statistic. I might be the National Park Service type of the Mississippi, but to me that's a really interesting concept. I think they're doing a lot of cool stuff out in California with water reuse and I think as a profession, I think that's a really interesting, responsible thing to start talking about, potentially.

Marc Culver 32:11

I concur, particularly as we get to a point where we're going to have more and more restrictions on pumping water out of aquifers and this and the other, where surface water is going to become more and more important as a source.

Mark Ray 32:24

Well, I think it's amazing philosophical questions, right? So a lot of the communities draw water out of aquifers. It's treated and then dumped into where it becomes surface water. So if you're closing that loop, what does that mean? You know, yeah, yeah, I think the other thing is kind of goes back to the AI and asset management. I mean, open houses have evolved since COVID for communities. But can you imagine the situation I know this is possible today where you can literally have people put on goggles and see what the after product generally ish looks like it, and what does that mean? A lot of upfront costs. It's time, right, if people put on their goggles and you have, let's say, 100 people in a room. But what does that mean, right, and what does that look like? And how does that shape the profession and how does it help pull back the curtain on what we do?

Marc Culver 33:14

Yeah, I think from that virtual reality tool.

Marc Culver 33:20

I think one of the biggest challenges that we have in that above world, above grounds realm of building our lived infrastructure, our streets and our parks and our sidewalks and trails and everything else the environment that we live in I think that one of the biggest challenges that we've had is trying to get people to really picture it, really understand what we're talking about when we say we're going to build this, this and this, and we're going to put street lights here in trees and what is that really going to look like.

Marc Culver 33:55

And we've done a lot with the visualization, like little videos of a little fake drone, pseudo drone, virtual drone flying through the corridor once it's complete and seeing before and afters and things like that. But I think that's the next step is taking somebody out in the field and actually putting those goggles on and they're standing there and they can see what it really looks like. And then they put the goggles on and then it shows them what it's going to look like right there, vertical, horizontal, everything, with all the furniture in there and everything. And that really I think will help people understand what is being proposed and hopefully increase people's support of those projects to see the end result. But yeah, it's tough when you're looking at a piece of paper. What is that?

Mark Ray 34:46

I think you talked about speakers, one of the ones speaking of associations. One of the speakers I always could not wait to hear in city engineers was the state demographer. Yeah, talking about population trends, impending retirements. What is the workforce going to look like? To me, that was always a really fascinating conversation, because that's who we serve, and if that community is changing, what does that mean for us? We design, build and maintain for generations, so how does this play into that factor? And as we talk about changes in population and demographics in Minnesota, so what right? It goes back to the data question. So what do we do with this information and how are we preparing for it? So I think that is always a great speaker.

Marc Culver 35:34

I will absolutely make note of that. That's a really good one because, you're right, that was one of the more interesting agencies that we would bring in to talk about things was the demographer, and just like we would get blown away by some of that data. If, like hey, in 20 years, the average age of a Minnesotan is going to be 60 years old or whatever, I'm making that up Exactly 100%, but some number and you're like wow, that you kind of puts things in perspective of, like you said, what is the community we're going to serve? What is that really going to be in 20 years? And how does that stress different parts of the infrastructure when it comes to infrastructure or police and fire and things like that?

Mark Ray 36:20

Right, well, and even just the workforce? Yeah, what's that going to be like? Hey, it's a hard time to hire people right now, and so is this a temporary blip. Is this a long-term thing? What is that going to look like?

Mark Ray 36:37

And I recall the state demographer saying, hey, hiring is going to get tough and we're kind of waiting for it to grow, Exactly, and this was years ago, and now we're here and so it's just like all right. So here we are, and so I know the conversations that we have with the city of Crystal are. We cannot assume we have bodies to do the job to replace. So what equipment do we need to be as efficient as possible? The people we have, because we can't assume adding people. Crystal is a cost. Obviously there's impact in the budget, but just practically. If we can't have people that get the job done, what do we do? How do we plan for that? How do we lean into that issue and prepare ourselves for it?

Marc Culver 37:19

Yeah, no. I think that's a great way to formulate that question, and it would be interesting to bring somebody in. Maybe it is the Minnesota State Demographer, maybe it's somebody with a more national perspective on that.

Mark Ray 37:30

I think it's both.

Public Works Professionals

Marc Culver 37:31

Yeah, yeah, maybe, but I really enjoy those topics. Well, we're talking about future episodes and some things that I'm really looking forward to bringing in is I want to talk to the APWA's top 10 leaders from 2023. And so you know, that's one thing that I'm going to endeavor to do in season two is talk to those top 10 people and talk to them about a topic that they're passionate about. Find that passion topic for them and partly figure out how did you become a top 10 leader and what does public service mean to you? Whether you're actually a public employee or you're in the private sector, working for the public, you're still providing public service. But, you know, find that passion topic for them and talk to them. But also, you know, expand more on GIS and asset management and State Demographer and then get into some dirty things like water treatment and wastewater treatment and some things like that too, and solid waste.

Marc Culver 38:42

I want to try to hit all those sectors that we deal with as public works professionals. You know that not everybody fit. You know, one of the biggest things for me when I became a public works director was dealing with recycling and dealing with facilities and a little bit on the fleet side, like those are three things that I went to school, you know, to become civil engineer. I never thought I'd be dealing with facilities, you know, and paint, collars and carpet replacing carpet and city all and stuff like that. But those are things that we do deal with as public works professionals.

Mark Ray 39:17

I think we'd also be remiss not to talk about mental health and wellness in the profession, especially this being the 20th and that 20 theme that goes with it. I was reading something earlier today. It was a really fascinating conversation. They say, if people talk about finding your purpose and the way that you presented is, what do I want to become, right, it's just like looking forward thing. And what this author was framing is instead of the thing about that way look at who you are and really what are your strengths and what are your passions, and find that drive that maybe you haven't fully self realized and what can you do with that. And that's consistent with some other stuff out there that says, hey, the focus in your weaknesses focuses on your strengths and really lean into those. And so I think talking about mental health and just self care and especially as you know caring for staff.

Marc Culver 40:10

Yeah, and I recall you you actually talked a little bit about that in your in that first episode about that matter. It does, it does and and that would be another good one, because I think that's something I think for so many leaders, whether you're talking at the public works level or my wife's a dentist, you know whether you're talking about health care or wherever it's one of those things that we don't learn. That's one of those things we don't learn about in school is, you know, managing people, supervising and managing people and taking care of people, those people that work with you and for you and, more most importantly, probably taking care of yourself, so you can take care of those other people 100%. And I think that's something that we could all probably learn more about, and certainly there are people out there that have been intentional about learning about that, but maybe we could help some of those others at least think about that and maybe go get some more information on that.

Mark Ray 41:07

Well and, I think, also just crack the stigma of not even talking about it. You know the big, burly public works person that you know they're going on doing their thing and you know taking a moment to really genuinely ask and care about where they're at or when you look in the mirror, where you're at, because we're all in this together and that's the theme that this, this podcast, is really just reinforced professionally, personally. We're here to support each other and that looks a lot of the lot. That looks at a lot of different things depending on the situation.

Marc Culver 41:38

Yeah. So, as we wrap up this episode here, I just wanted to say a few things, a few thank yous for this first season. First of all, I'm going to start with Mike Spack, who, you know, started this, this podcast experiment with me as my co-host and, just you know, decided about after the eighth episode that it just wasn't his, he wasn't as much of a public works nerd as he is, a public works nerd as he thought he was, and and I understand that I get that, and. But I just want to thank him for working with me to get this podcast experiment kicked off and because I don't know that I would have been able to do it when I did it without him and his help and and some leadership and guidance on that too. So so, mike, if you're listening, thank you. And I want to thank some, some regulars that have been, you know, on camera and also behind the scenes helping me support this, and that includes Mark Ray, who his passion for the last 24 hours on this has been just really invigorating, actually, and energizing for me. So thanks, mark, on that. But Deb Heiser, who helped me when, when Mike stepped away, helped me co-host a couple of episodes and also teamed with me on that city engineers episode, so I want to want to thank her for that and for some really great materials and support.

Marc Culver 43:06

Michael Thompson, who has been advocating to be a co-host but he's never around, so your fault, mike. Michael, and then you know, like just some super fans I guess, that I have out there you know this Carl Overly that I mentioned before, who reached out and said hi, I really appreciate that. Mark Hansen from Coon Rapids, who saw him out in San Diego, and he came up running up to me and just said how much he he's enjoying his podcast and you know it. And then Jen Jen Deserud, who is the current president of city and your association, and it was like, yeah, I listened to your podcast, so I'm doing chores around the house and stuff like that, and you know, just those little mentions and call outs also help keep me energized and help keep this going. So, thank you. And one of more is Will Manchester Mankato, and he mentioned his, his forester, hannibal Hayes, who's who's a big fan of this. So I just want to do a shout out to those that I know are listening.

Mark Ray 44:09

Who will Manchester from Minnetaka cracks and not Mankato. What did I say?

Marc Culver 44:13

I said Mankato, sorry, will Manchester, from Minnetaka, minnesota, and his forester, hannibal Hayes. Yes, thanks, mark. Yeah, we got to have some bloopers in this too, you know, and, as Mark indicated, I you know, and I've said I had other podcasts and early in this one as well, and just want to thank my employer, bolton Mank, for their sponsorship and their support of this and and particularly the staff, the studio staff that's helped me out with this. So, and then I'd be remiss if I didn't mention my wife, jennifer, who, despite not being a Public Works nerd, has listened to all the episode and and gives me little feet, bits of feedback here and there. And I have to give her credit as the one who actually came up with the name for this podcast, the Public Works Nerds, because she's she's always know that I'm a nerd, so I think. But thank you because it's a great name for.

Mark Ray 45:07

I think I would just like to just shout out to all of our spouses. They definitely put up with us with a lot, whether it be late night, early morning, phone calls, great ideas for podcasts, and so I think you just found yourself another guest.

Marc Culver 45:22

We spouses of Public Works professionals Not, that's not a bad one.

Mark Ray 45:26

Or maybe a little therapy group.

Marc Culver 45:28

Yeah, some therapy for them.

Mark Ray 45:30

Yeah, because it just it just reinforces the theme of we're in a community, right? You know, mike was there to help support and he's like hey, this, this maybe is a different thing. And he moved on and and that's OK, and that's part of growing and that's and we're still supporting each other and trying to give back to the profession and, at the end of the day, we're here to serve and that's what we got into the end of the business.

Marc Culver 45:53

So you know, as Mark alluded to, you know from our, from this the intro from the introduction episode. We're taking this opportunity to pause and reflect on this podcast. So we've done our first 20 episodes. We might take a little bit of a break after this.

Mark Ray 46:14

You know I'm going to. I'm going to go ahead and speak for you, mike. I think it'd be good. Mark, I'm sorry, yeah, if you took a pause. Yeah, you listeners out there, keep the ideas coming. Let's keep Mark getting re energized. We'll come back with a stronger season to and and looking forward to what all could come with that.

Marc Culver 46:31

Yeah, and well you know I'll do my best to just throw out some random content on the social media channels, on LinkedIn and stuff like that, just to keep the nerd dumb, and I'll just be a little bit more fed with some, some, some material here and there. But yeah, I think what we might take advantage of build up another round of episodes and and be a little easier on everybody involved on on the production of of this.

Mark Ray 46:59

But I just want to thank you, Mark, for your time and for helping us review this this first season.

Marc Culver 47:03

Thank you to all the nerds out there who've been listening and have hopefully enjoyed this podcast.

Mark Ray 47:10

And all the want to be nerds who are encouraged by this podcast.

Marc Culver 47:13

Yep, the pledge link nerds and the want to be nerds. You know, send us that feedback. You know, through the website we've got a comment area you can put in comments on the LinkedIn pages, on YouTube, on the YouTube channel. But give us that feedback, give us you know episodes or topics you'd love to see explored and maybe tell us what your favorite episodes were. And to that point I will just say that the the the most downloaded episodes were episodes one and two. They're sitting at Michael's episode actually leads all episodes with 561 downloads, and marks mark raise episodes at 522. So neck and neck.

Mark Ray 47:59

I will. I will get some auto GP thing to get them going.

Marc Culver 48:06

But you know that those are by far the two most popular episodes, but after that it looks like the highest downloaded episode is our winter maintenance. So reducing salt and using looking at design and how we can reduce salt. So those are the most listened to. And then on YouTube because, remember, we've got a YouTube channel the most watched episode is, well, Mike and Mike and Mark's know the most watched episode is the drone technology one.

Mark Ray 48:39

Yeah, which would actually seem very fitting for the topic. Yeah, yeah.

Marc Culver 48:43

Yeah, so, but again, thank you all for your support for listening and you know, stay tuned for for season two and we will. We'll be back and again thank you, mark, for for joining me on this.

Mark Ray 48:59

Glad to be here and again shout out to all the listeners for joining you on this endeavor. And again a big shout out to bowling. Make for supporting and help make it happen, all right thank you, nerds out, take care.