Ever wonder how a deep appreciation for entertainment and a keen editorial eye can concoct a media empire? Sam Ajilore, did just that, transforming a school project into the widely acclaimed That Grape Juice. In our latest heart-to-heart, Sam recounts his voyage from the inception of a name that echoes his Nigerian heritage to orchestrating a platform where substance meets showbiz. He lets us in on the secret ingredients that make That Grape Juice not just another website but a celebration of music and culture through events and beyond.
Navigating the media landscape as an independent outlet is no mean feat; yet, That Grape Juice stands tall, a testament to Sam's dedication. We peel back the curtain on how the site's distinct voice emerged, blossoming from a blog into a magnet for stars like Chris Brown and Janet Jackson. Sam shares the sleight of hand in balancing incisive critiques with professional grace, a strategy that has carved out a unique niche in the world of entertainment journalism.
But what of the man behind the brand? Hear Sam open up about the art of networking when you're an introvert, dismantling media stereotypes, and the significance of integrity and hard work. As he talks, it becomes clear that being true to oneself is the most valuable currency in building a legacy. This episode isn't just a glimpse behind the scenes; it's an invitation to learn from someone who has chartered his own course with resilience and unwavering commitment to diversity in the media world.
Your feedback is always welcome, as we strive to enhance the content's value for you. Enjoy Leadership in Colour - Voices you may not have heard from before.
Ever wonder how a deep appreciation for entertainment and a keen editorial eye can concoct a media empire? Sam Ajilore, did just that, transforming a school project into the widely acclaimed That Grape Juice. In our latest heart-to-heart, Sam recounts his voyage from the inception of a name that echoes his Nigerian heritage to orchestrating a platform where substance meets showbiz. He lets us in on the secret ingredients that make That Grape Juice not just another website but a celebration of music and culture through events and beyond.
Navigating the media landscape as an independent outlet is no mean feat; yet, That Grape Juice stands tall, a testament to Sam's dedication. We peel back the curtain on how the site's distinct voice emerged, blossoming from a blog into a magnet for stars like Chris Brown and Janet Jackson. Sam shares the sleight of hand in balancing incisive critiques with professional grace, a strategy that has carved out a unique niche in the world of entertainment journalism.
But what of the man behind the brand? Hear Sam open up about the art of networking when you're an introvert, dismantling media stereotypes, and the significance of integrity and hard work. As he talks, it becomes clear that being true to oneself is the most valuable currency in building a legacy. This episode isn't just a glimpse behind the scenes; it's an invitation to learn from someone who has chartered his own course with resilience and unwavering commitment to diversity in the media world.
Your feedback is always welcome, as we strive to enhance the content's value for you. Enjoy Leadership in Colour - Voices you may not have heard from before.
I started these conversations to discuss leadership, mentorship, growth and so much more from voices you may not have heard from before. I hope the conversations inspire you, motivate you and give you something to think about. This leadership in colour by myself, shazik Bah, is supported and powered by MEPHAR. Hello and welcome to Leadership in Colour Supercharacter. Have Sam Ajalore with me today from that great juice. When I say from that great juice, I mean the CEO, editor in chief, founded it back in 2017. Fantastic person. He's helped me out a number of times on a various number of panels and conversations. It's a fantastic site, that great juice. If you haven't checked out, you should check it out. What I would say and I always introduce Sam in a similar way is I'm sure he's got some great stories about Janet Jackson and Chris Brown. He's met them all. So any of your idols, he's met them. But, sam, I'm not very good at introducing people, to be honest, so why don't you introduce yourself a little bit better than I just did?
Speaker 2:Well, first and foremost, thank you very much for having me on the platform. I really really do appreciate it. I literally love what this platform is about and for really honoured to be your next guest, so I do appreciate that. So, yeah, I just wanted to get that out of the way. First, jumping into things, my name is Sam Ajalore. I'm the founder and editor of that great juice, which is one of the next top urban pop culture platforms. Since launching the platform as a hobby in 2007, that great juice is morphed into more than just what it started out as, which was a website, I'd kind of say. It's a multifaceted offering which today comprises layers such as entertainment news, film, celebrity interviews, live performances and, of late, events. On a more personal note, I'm a British born Nigerian who loves things, all things entertainment industry. I've always had like a real pronounced passion for both the front and back end of how the spectacle comes to be and, by way of that great juice, I've been fortunate enough to kind of be a part of that.
Speaker 1:And I've got an apology already because I think I cut 10 years of that great juice. I think I said 2017. Sorry, I meant 2017. Don't worry.
Speaker 2:Time has gone really quick, so it feels like it to be honest.
Speaker 1:So, Sam, I always ask the same question to start with, which is is there a story behind your name?
Speaker 2:Oh, wow, that great juice is named, or my name, your name. My name is Sam Yule, which, from a biblical perspective, means bring a river of joy, if I remember correctly, and all because I so asked of the Lord. So I'm not from a Nigerian background and, as any Nigerian would tell you, whoever is angling for a English name or going for a European name which is the tribe I'm from they always gravitate towards meaning based names. It's almost as if any time anyone speaks your name, that's what they're speaking into the air about you. So, yeah, that, I believe, is the meaning of my name.
Speaker 1:Amazing. And that's what you've done with that great juice, right, I've tried to. I've tried to, so, as you've offered it up as a gift, what's the background behind that great juice, or the story behind the name that great juice?
Speaker 2:For sure. So it's a spin off on the Marvin Gaye song. I heard it through the grapevine, the grapevine being a name for a magazine that I came up with at a level times. You know I have an older sister who you know. When growing up she always read magazines such as Essence and Ebony and Sister to Sister and things of that ilk, and I just loved like getting those as hand me down to, almost like reading through it. They always took a deep dive approach to the music industry and entertainment and the feature articles and interviews always just be pages and pages and pages but always felt like I walked away entertained but also knowing a lot more about the subject. You know that was being spotlighted and that's the approach I wanted to take on with that grape juice when I decided to start the platform.
Speaker 1:And it's funny because I don't think I've ever asked you that question before. But as soon as you say, oh, it's a take on the Marvin Gaye song, it's immediately obvious.
Speaker 2:Right, right, right I mean. But before, like even just the name itself, the song kind of speaks of like a kind of gossipy, hearsay based grapevine. But with that grape juice I always wanted to kind of take the entertainment and slight titillating aspect of that from the song but fuse it with something that felt more concrete, more legit, like a source that you could actually believe. And when they say it, that's what it is and that's kind of the spin that we put on the song title. Yeah, it makes sense.
Speaker 1:So that grape juice has been a huge part of your life. When we caught up a couple of weeks back, we were talking about your time at school and I just got to revisit that conversation because it was. It's crazy. It's a crazy idea that that grape juice was born out of your time. Was it a university project? Is that right? It was actually a level project.
Speaker 2:But it didn't even start it earlier. That was several years before I even had the idea. But the wheels were kind of turning at that juncture.
Speaker 1:What happened then? So you're in school, you've set up this site, that grape juice. It's an A level. I'm assuming you've got a very good grade for the project.
Speaker 2:We did. We did. So, yeah, journey back to the story. So one of our assignments towards the tail end of our A levels for media studies was to create our own original magazine. So my friend and I, sandra, we kind of again dialing into that whole process of what I mentioned with my sister and you know the magazines that we read and enjoyed growing up we thought to create like a music entertainment magazine with an urban skew, you know, black celebrities, r&b, hip hop, things of that nature, things we would just talk about in our own personal time and we were actively interested in. And we came up with a magazine called the Grapevine and it was a fictional magazine but we really really poured that all into it and we got a grade A on the project and that kind of got the wheels turning for me.
Speaker 2:And then I went to university, or just before going to university, I was trying to figure out what subjects I wanted to do. As I mentioned, I come from an African background, as I'm sure many people from similar backgrounds would echo. For us, the template really was you either become a doctor or a lawyer or an accountant. Those were the viable career fields that were in front of us. So when faced with university application, I kind of just automatically found myself pursuing a law career.
Speaker 2:My older sister had done it as a degree, my dad had done it as a second degree and I really did not know what I wanted to do. But I just knew that that's where my subject strengths they resided. So I kind of just pursued that path and then, towards the start of when we were gonna be beginning university, I really just got a hunch for this isn't for you, sam, this really isn't for you. I love Laura Norder, I love SPU, I love things and that ilk, but I just didn't feel like it was my path. So I kind of made an agreement with myself to change my course to something that I knew I would enjoy and I really felt that I would figure out what the rest of my life or career journey would look like thereafter. So I pivoted to media and sociology. That was quite the conversation I had with my African parents for sure, especially the timing of it all, because it was on the literal tail end before I was to start my degree in law, and the rest, as they say, is history.
Speaker 1:I can't imagine that conversation, to be honest. That said, I was in a similar boat myself in uni, where I think my mum also wanted me to do inverted commas a proper subject right and I decided to do business, and I don't really know what my mum told everyone that I was doing. But yeah, I decided to do it, but which was quite typical for people from South Asia at the time but I got my place quite early on. You got yours quite late, so were you set up for uni? Did you have your place on campus, for example?
Speaker 2:Absolutely not, and I always say this is really the genesis of that great, and I almost can't tell that great history without kind of diving into what I'm about to dive into. So I changed my degree and again I like to be really transparent on these platforms. I don't want to tell the candy coated version of the story. The reality is that I kind of came up with a hunch that I wanted to change my course. My grades came out. It kind of threw a bit of a wrench into my plans, but at the same time there was still scope to pursue law, be it other universities or, at a push, the university that I was still trying to go to, which was Brunel in Uxbridge. However, in changing my course, I really had been real convicted within myself that I wanted to change my course on a technicality, even though it was the same academic school, it was the same literal university and same department. I had to release myself into clearing on a technicality.
Speaker 2:So because of that I lost my place on campus and had to commute for most of my first year and everybody knows that's been to uni. That's the poppin' year, right, that's the hall parties, that's the raving, that's the all of that. I didn't have any of that. I was literally stuck on the Metropolitan Line for two hours each way, so like a four hour return journey every single day. I didn't really have much of a social life, I didn't really have many friends and I had a lot of free time on my hands, and the upside of that is really, really hard at the time, but the upside of that was that I had a lot of free time and I was able to pour that into.
Speaker 2:You know what ultimately became that grape juice. Block culture was really booming at the time. Perez Hilton was around. On the urban end, we had sites such as Concrete Loop that were really really, really making waves, and I still didn't really have it as a business plan per se. But I just thought, if they can do it and I enjoy consuming these as a visitor I have a very unique take on these things. I'm super passionate about it. How can I kind of put my own lens on it? And I did so after one very, very boring lecture one evening, I just went home, hopped on blogspotcom and started that grape juice. I know it sounds really really like boom, boom, pow, but that's literally what it was. I had a lot of free time. I was really passionate about the subject matter and just started, and the rest, as they say, played out the way it did.
Speaker 1:Do you remember the lecture? I guess not, because it was boring?
Speaker 2:No, it was boring as hell.
Speaker 1:But you've got a lot to owe to the Metline, though, because if you had that two-hour commute, was it two hours each way?
Speaker 2:Two hours each way, and I know that you say that in a kind of jokie way but honestly I genuinely do, because I remember the albums that I was rinsing at that time Because it was such a long journey. So I would literally get like two or three listens of the whole album from front to back. And, as I said, I've always been that child that would pick up the back of a CD and look at all the credits, look at the producers, wait at the end of the video on MTV or MTV base to see who directed it. That was always my passion. So, armed with all that time, I was able to really dive into that and, as I said, I've never just been like music and music alone, like I'll listen to an album and I'll get transported into what I want the video to look like or what I think that artist should be doing, choreography wise, and just to kind of give you a flavor of that great juice itself.
Speaker 2:Part of the reason that I think you know, humbly speaking, that I feel it managed to catch on was they had a very unique lens. It wasn't just Chris Brown performs his new single, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. It was very much and still is. Chris Brown performed his new single and this is what we think. You know, chris Brown is doing this and this is what we think he should do and that kind of galvanizing audience of people that were very like minded it wasn't just, you know, gossip or people that were engaged at a very surface level was people that had an active interest in the back end. Just like myself, I've always looked at the site as my diary of sorts, my diary of thoughts on the entertainment and music and all else in between, and that's very much baked into the DNA of that great juice.
Speaker 1:So how would you describe the editorial style and what's the evolution been on the editorial style of that great juice?
Speaker 2:I would say that great juice fuses the informative with the entertaining. You know, with that great juice initially like it was very unbridled and I think that was a big part of its initial success. It was like I'd almost call it like armchair Simon Cowling. You know, we all know why we used to love off X Factor and shows of that ilk because what other people won't say he would. And that was kind of like the angle that I embraced. I always wanted to be informative with that great juice.
Speaker 2:You knew that what you were reading was legit, it was factual, but then there would always be entertaining opinion-based community dialogue baked into that same 100 or 150 word article and we actively always encouraged our readers to comment. And it's one of the things I'm still really proud of because in this kind of shapeshift we've seen and evolution we've seen more towards like social media consumption of entertainment, news and content. We still have a very active community that comment and react to what we put out natively on the site, which you don't really see as much these days, and it's something that very much was the case at the beginning of the site. That is still the case Now. In terms of broader evolution, I think you know I've grown a lot as a person.
Speaker 2:You mentioned at the beginning of the conversation that you know I've grown a lot with that grape juice. I've actually, I think I've been doing that grape juice for over half of my entire life, which is kind of crazy. When I think about it, and I think you know, things become a bit more refined, they become a bit more sharp and they become a bit more professional. I think there are a lot more things that stake and relationships and things of that nature, and times also change. There's a social backdrop, as I mentioned Simon Cowell before. We loved all of that, but at the same time, there's a lot more to consider that's probably the best way I can put it when creating content and, you know, adhering to guidelines, guidelines that you set for yourself as well, and that's how I'd say we've evolved editorially.
Speaker 1:And it really feels like a different sort of voice to the other content that you see online. But it sounds like you've done that on purpose. Was that? Sorry, bon? No, yeah, I agree. Yeah, was that what helped you grow? Because I'm trying to work out what the link was between you sort of putting together this blog and not even the link, the jump from you putting together this blog, and then you mentioned Chris Brown a couple of times and then you interviewing Chris Brown while you're at uni.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Does that happen?
Speaker 2:I honestly, in not starting the platform with this grand business plan or grand idea, I can only rely on what other people have said to me about how they discovered this. And this is even industrially, whether it's labels or publicists or artists themselves. It is very different. It does feel fresh. It didn't feel afraid to say what other platforms wouldn't and I think that was magnetic in many ways, like labels would see that and ultimately these are the labels in the meetings, cultivating these stories, these angles from which they want to approach the campaigns and things of that nature.
Speaker 2:And then you've got this platform in a very public facing way that is saying that should be the single, that shouldn't be the single. Why did they do that? That was the wrong idea. I don't know what he's doing. He shouldn't be doing slow jams. Fans want up tempos and it was very much like almost like a public sphere of dialogue in a very unbridled way about music and entertainment. And I just don't feel like there were many platforms that were doing that.
Speaker 2:And the ones that were, I felt they with all due respect, because I've drawn inspiration from so many platforms that have come before and after that great juice, I felt like with a lot of them where they were being quite direct and in your face. A lot of the time it was kind of maybe some of the more nasty stuff, which I've always never wanted to do. I've always looked at that. Great juices let's comment on the output. That was the, that was the, that was the rules set by self.
Speaker 2:You know, let's comment on the output. If we're going to go there with anybody or be hyper critical, let it be about the output, let it be about the performance, let it be about the song. And I think that is what kind of gave us a unique point of difference compared to some of the platforms that were just being mean, or maybe some of the platforms that, with all due respect, I would kind of call quite vanilla. You know, quite just, informative and informative only and there's a place for everybody, by the way but specific to that great juice. I think that's what kind of gave us a unique flavor.
Speaker 1:I see what you mean and I guess the fact that you're independent allows you to play in that space, right? So you're not being so vanilla.
Speaker 2:Right, no, absolutely. And being independent, I'd say, has been, yeah, it's been a huge, huge hobby. There definitely have been drawbacks, for sure, that set with that same independence, but in terms of, yeah, really just blazing an initial trail and kind of, yeah, magnetizing an audience, I feel like having that independence, that freedom of speech, that freedom of thought, the freedom of articulation. I feel that that has been vital.
Speaker 1:How did you get from you putting together this site with your own editorial style, with your own line of commentary? You know it looks great to interviewing pretty much everyone out there, from, as we said, you know, ben Affleck to Janet Jackson, to Chris Brown, to Rihanna, to whoever it may be. How does this happen?
Speaker 2:I would say initially it would. I'd say honestly, it was just the content we were pumping out. So I'd say consistency and just the intensity and the volume that I was pouring into it. Yes, I was doing my degree and I really was busting my you know what to make sure that I was, you know, delivering on that front. But with every bit of time I had available I was pouring into that grade. So in hindsight I was posting X number of articles a day, you know, whereas some platforms that were taking it as more of a hobby may have been posting one, two, three articles a week. I was doing that probably 10 a day, by myself, you know. So I just think the volume that we were pumping out into Google and then getting indexed by Google for that content. So, for example, if Chris Brown's publicist is on the other end of that you know information flow and is searching Chris Brown, take you down video, right, that grade just would pop up just because we're covering this stuff in the timely manner.
Speaker 2:I wasn't even making any money but I was so passionate about the content, articulated my stance on the content, also getting it out first. I don't know who I was in competition with, to be honest, but like just pumping out that content in a timely manner was game changing for us, because I felt like it was therefore landing on the laps of these people. So that was. That was the initial bit, I think, when I started getting contacted by labels because that's all I can point to there was no magic trick attached to that, like I really just think it was the content and the intensity and the consistency when they started reaching out. I think that's when I got hyper activated because it was like okay, when I got that first email from a atsonemusiccom email address in my dorm, I was like okay, cool, it's game time, let's go.
Speaker 2:You know, if I was already going at 100% before I cranked it up to 200 at that point, and I always feel like you've just got to be gutsy. You know, I was asking and pitching for things that that I would say in hindsight. Maybe that grape juice wasn't quite there with yet, maybe at a level of, I don't know, just on a maybe, a design level, maybe at just where we were in the game. I didn't care like I would pitch for it, I just threw out as many darts as possible and was hopeful something would stick. And then it did start to stick. So I think a combination of those two approaches just working my you know what off and then also just taking those opportunities, if people are reaching out, cultivate a relationship, pitch more, you know, put that grape juice out there for more and I think that combination was, was, was perfect in a way in terms of helping us scale up and level up.
Speaker 1:Okay. So you're in uni, you're churning out all of this content. It sounds fantastic. It sounds like this sort of like like, honestly, they could be a social network type film on that grape juice. You're at uni, you're putting away I don't know who. I don't know who's going to play Sam, though who would you get to play yourself?
Speaker 2:That's a really good question. I'll think about it. I'll let you know the end.
Speaker 1:So so you know, you're churning out lots and lots of content, and then you get an email address from at Sony musiccom or whatever it may be, and then it just snowballs from there.
Speaker 2:Literally, like I wish I could tell you there was some magic thing that happened or this big like cornerstone moment. I'll definitely say there were cornerstone interviews, because what I'd then say? I'd say the things I mentioned previously, like working really hard and also just sticking your neck out there and like really pitching yourself. Those are the two main things I would say. The third thing that was a byproduct of those two things were the more you do, the more opportunities that come in. So if you interview Kelly Rowland, then you knock it out the park, right. That just by default will bring a certain ilk of additional interview opportunities in.
Speaker 2:And if you just keep with that traction and keep pushing and keep making sure you're delivering, I've never, ever, ever subscribed to the idea of just getting the talent in front of you. You know it's like what do you do with that opportunity? Talent interview slots are typically 10 to 15 minutes at a pop. What are you going to do? I would spend days and days and days like working on interviews, working on questions, studying other interviews that were taking place at the time to make sure that my questions were not the same as theirs, just to kind of give it a unique flow. And I think those are the things that again just created more and more opportunities and helped that grape juice make a bit of noise, to the point that it's still reverberating today.
Speaker 1:Sounds like a lot of work right, like it's really. I'm really hearing the work ethic come through and that you were churning out lots of content and you're really sort of finding your skills as an editor, as an interviewer. What about the networking component to build business? How important is that?
Speaker 2:That has been a huge, huge, huge component. So kind of what we covered previously I'd say was the in-house side of things, but I feel like networking has been Probably the next big component of that grape juices boom and that grape juices sustainability moving forward. I've always kind of laughed at being in this field because I kind of consider myself an introvert right. So I favor smaller spaces, I favor more one-on-one dialogue and in this field, particularly the entertainment, because I feel networking is vital no matter what field you're in right, but in the entertainment space in particular, it is essential. I almost look at it like your physical presence is almost like you're walking CV when do people see you? What do they see that you're doing? All of these other things that kind of get more opportunities in front of you. So it's been quite interesting. I feel like I've had to.
Speaker 2:I always like to be transparent about networking because some people take in this very kind of textbook Hi, this is what I do, what do you do? No, I've always been a believer in networking on your own terms. So, as I mentioned, I kind of consider myself an introvert right. So rather than partying it up and turning it up constantly, which is the way some people navigate and get to meet people, and you know, so on and so forth. I work to my strengths, which I would say are one-on-one converse. You know I'm a chat-up box when you get me talking right. So I like to do one-on-one.
Speaker 2:I'm probably the one person that when they say let's grab a coffee, I actually mean it, you know, and some of those coffee meats are always say this you know, coffee meats that I had 10, 15 years ago are serving me well to this day, you know. So networking, I would say, is very, very vital in that regard. And also just taking yourself out of your comfort zone. Yes, I am often to myself, I'm quite a quiet person, but at the same time, nothing moves unless you do right. So it's very vital to kind of take yourself out of your comfort zone and put yourself in places where you do get to meet people in your field, you do get to introduce yourself. As I've said, I've learned so much about myself and kind of sharpened myself in many ways against the backdrop of doing that grape juice, and a big part of that is knowing when to turn on when you're in public spaces. Ultimately, putting myself in places where you get to meet people in your field and you get to kind of grow and embrace and build together from there.
Speaker 1:You describe yourself as a bit of an introvert. If I'm not even a bit of an introvert, you describe yourself as an introvert and it's odd because I don't see you as an introvert. I mean, even those are listening into this conversation probably say you know you're. You just seem super open and confident. Are you like this in all circles and all spaces?
Speaker 2:I'm trying to be that's the honest answer Like I'm trying to be and, as I mentioned, that grape juice has been a big help in helping me kind of bring that side of myself out more, in a more unified or universal sense, you know, versus just one on one or in certain rooms. I feel like you know a lot of the entertainment industry can be, it can be big, it can be intimidating. You meet so many different types of people along the way. But then one of the things I've kind of zeroed in on and doing that grape juice has been really helpful with that is kind of kind of knowing what your source is. You know, I know in that your source.
Speaker 2:When I say source I mean like your, your source source, like knowing what kind of is your unique thing, what's your flavor, what people gravitate towards. And I think, as time has gone on and, thankfully and humbly speaking, as things have gone really well, you kind of realized that you are an integral in you, as you are, you know, with all your pros, cons, flaws and otherwise, you are the source, so to speak. So I'm trying to kind of take that on a lot more and I think, armed with that, it does kind of, when you are in certain rooms or in certain spaces, give you the confidence to be like hey, you know I've got this and you know I come as I am, I've done a fair bit. There's a lot more that I want to do, and what can we do together?
Speaker 1:And that really rings true to me, because a couple of weeks back, when we did catch up, there was something that you said I've noted down as well, and that was you said that you're hyper aware of the importance of being nice to people. That really resonates with me, because I'm like you. I do like to ensure that I'm feeding my network and I'm catching up with people, especially catching up with people that I like spending time with, and that needs to be nice to people is. I don't want to say that it serves you well, but I just I don't know if it's positive karma. It just comes back in and helps you further down the line somehow.
Speaker 2:Yep, no, I echo that sentiment a lot. I think it works twofold. I kind of look at it like just fundamentally, being a good person will always serve you well Ultimately. Sometimes people don't remember what you say, but they remember how you made them feel, and I know that firsthand of myself because I just feel like that's been my edit. Sometimes I don't remember all the things that have been said good, bad or otherwise but you sometimes attach feelings to people and scenarios. So when it comes to myself and how I conduct myself, I really try and keep that front of mind. And then I mean this is, we're talking about business, we're talking about leadership, we're talking about things like that.
Speaker 2:I do think it is currency, not in a kind of off way or any way that kind of feels dubious, but I do think being nice is currency. It's like if people think well of you, they're more inclined to put opportunities in front of you. People enjoyed working with you. They are inclined to want to work with you again. Similarly, if people observe you be nice to everyone in the room, from the exec down to the cleaner, it's one of those ones where that rings true. Ultimately, people will note these things Because I know. I know them when I go to places and I encounter different people and it does inform my take on them. So I always again try and keep that front of mind as I kind of navigate all these various different spheres. While doing that grape juice.
Speaker 1:I hate it when I see people who are a little bit off or rude with waiting staff or the person at reception. You've got no need to be rude to those people and that does, as you say, impact the way in which we do business as well. Exactly, I completely agree with you. Okay, let's switch gears again. What advice would you give yourself, or even the kids that are in school right now? So what advice would you give yourself at the start of your time at school or start of your time in your career, and what advice would you give other people that are keeping things off right now? Good, question.
Speaker 2:I think I started with myself, I would say, as more of a creative that didn't start that grape juice with, like this big, amazing business plan. It was more like passion driven. I would wish I was more, or I'd advise myself, I should say, to be a bit more data driven. You know always kind of varied the passion wave, you know always poured in with how much I was doing from a volume perspective and it did serve well. But I do feel like they could have been a bit more refined. If you know, I kind of applied more of a business lens earlier. So that's probably the advice I would give myself. At the same time, I'm really proud of young me back then and again I say this humbly speaking I wish I could drink from a bit more of the world of what an early sound was doing, because I just felt like I very, very much didn't take no for an answer. It was like go, go, go, like in a very unrelenting way, and I kind of want to, I kind of want to embody that a bit more. I think as you go along and you grow in business, there are so many more things at stake, there's so many variables, there's so many things to consider. But I just feel like that as a foundational school of thought. I don't ever want to lose the essence of that. So that's the advice that I would give myself back then and, to a degree, give myself now as well.
Speaker 2:I'd say, for the kids on the come up, I would say, particularly those in school, I'd say embrace this time.
Speaker 2:I feel like there's never really going to be another time in life for most people where they're going to be surrounded by that many, that much diversity, that amount of people from different backgrounds and different spheres. And I feel like really embracing that time, really kind of sponging from all the different influences you have around you, I think will serve well. Even kind of just echo in our earlier comments on networking and things of that nature, I would say start pursuing your passions now as well. I feel like I started that grape juice quite young. I mean I was 19 when I started that grape juice and, as we've seen in the media, you've got amazing trailblazers, like the late Jamal Edwards who started even earlier, and I feel like that can only serve someone well. Everyone's edit might not be entrepreneurship, everyone's edit might not be starting in their teens, but I just feel like, if you're a child in this era and this time of doing it yourself and there's so many platforms available, I think it will only serve one world to start thinking and pursuing their passions, that's good advice.
Speaker 1:Well put, thanks, Sam. So, getting back to your day job and as you know, this is a conversation from the perspective as a leader of colour Are there any struggles around representation or any struggles of representation that you've faced? Have you ever had issues getting on the brief, for example?
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, it's a short answer. Yes, I feel like I'm going to try and answer this question quite carefully because I feel like you know, I've been very fortunate in many regards, met amazing people on the journey and continued to right. But I do feel like I think Gatekeepers has been quite interesting you just don't see yourself a lot. You know, and this is on a few different fronts, be it at a PR level or at a marketing level, a lot of times you don't necessarily see yourself represented, be that yourself, racially or in other regards. So that's quite interesting when kind of navigate, because there's a certain new ones that I find sometimes is missing.
Speaker 2:Again, we're having this big, broad conversation as a society about blackness and just diversity on mass, but I still feel like sometimes in certain spheres and in certain regards, like blackness is still seen as a monolith, you know, and with that grape juice, that's one of the things I'm really pushing to like break down, like push against, like you know, that grape juice might not be the platform that you see Top Boy on, but it might be the platform that you see Beyonce and Rihanna and Stefan London on. Blackness is not a monolith, you know. That's something that I've been really, really passionate and kind of volumous about, and I still feel like, in certain regards, that has been a challenge, you know, in terms of just the opportunities or, like you mentioned, some of the briefs that we're either not put on, you know. So that's definitely been a thing and, yeah, I'd say probably, in the grand scheme of things, I'd say that's been quite tricky. That's something that I would love to see change, moving forward.
Speaker 1:You mentioned something quite interesting there. Of course, Top Boy, Season 3 is out.
Speaker 2:I'm back to binge it when we come off the call.
Speaker 1:Enjoy it. Let me know what your thoughts are. But you mentioned something really interesting there, which is, essentially there are different components of being black. Right, black isn't as you describe it. Being black is a monolith. It's, you know, there's the the Top Boy audience, there's the Beyonce audience, there's, and it goes on right. There's all these different angles. There's some, that is, some components of it. That's got nothing to do with hip hop and R&B. I mentioned being African earlier because you've got a great interview on that great juice on air, the film about Michael Jordan's sort of time with Nike or the contractual process with Nike. There are just so many different components. How do you face that? Because the brief is going to be we want an urban audience, for example, and that's because that's going to be the consideration of a black audience. But that's not really the only component of being black.
Speaker 2:That's a really, really great question and credit to some of the gatekeepers in a post like Black Lives Matter World and things of that nature. And the more we're turning the volume up on things like diversity and inclusion. I am noting that with a lot of these like mainstream, mainstream studios and things of that nature, they are actively seeking out diverse platforms to kind of put their banner talent in front of you, to kind of speak to that audience. I think you know, after Black Panther and films like Girls Trip, I feel like there's there's now like a growing understanding of the fact that this is a really activated audience and we really do need to be putting our stars and our content and our opportunities in front of them. It's not perfect and it's not all the way there yet, and one of the things I'm noting as well is that while some studios do that really well, what you often find is you get the big movies but what they'll do is they'll specifically give you the diverse talent right, so you kind of get to play ball with the title right and kind of get a rub from that, but then they won't give you the leads and I'm like, behold, in a minute, like we've interviewed Janet Jackson I'm not sure it really gets much bigger than that.
Speaker 2:Or we've interviewed, you know, members of Destiny's Child, and this is all reason I don't believe in resting on your laurels, like I'm very much a forward thinking person. So it's like when actively pitching it is sometimes mind boggling that, you know, the banner talent is not always put in front of you, and I do again, I don't really take no for an answer, kind of echoing some of what we discussed earlier. I will push and there have been multiple instances where some of those big names have been left off and I've pushed and got them in the end, you know. So I just wish and my hope moving forward, is that indeed it doesn't always need that push, that it's more automated and there's an understanding that, look, there's value in this audience and is value in this audience playing all of our cards, you know, including the A list versus. You know just the diverse talent that may not be the banner names in the movie at the time.
Speaker 1:So this isn't a loaded question. I genuinely don't have an opinion on this, but I'm assuming, therefore, that you've got put on more ad briefs following the BLM movement and the sub-question to that is has that momentum maintained? Are you still getting the same level of briefs? Because I feel as though there was this sort of uptick and real engagement and then it might have dropped off a bit. But I don't know that from a position of any authority.
Speaker 2:It's more of an open question In terms of direct deals and things of that nature. I do feel like in a post-Black Lives Matter world, especially in the heat of that moment, there were a lot of direct deals that kind of came in. I would say, off the back of that. I would still say that it may not be as intense or as voluminous as it was then, but I do feel like those briefs are coming in and what I'm even loving more, more than just spot campaigns for that grape juice I'm seeing the emergence of loads of diverse agencies and diverse movements that are dedicated to that mission where we're trying to work with them more and more specifically in the UK, that are wanting to speak to diverse specifically, even just calling us by the space, wanting to speak to the Black audience. The more that has been really encouraging to see. So while maybe the spot campaigns have dipped a little bit, I am seeing the emergence of more agencies who I feel can carry that button and move forward long term with that. So that's been really encouraging to see.
Speaker 1:So what's next for that grape?
Speaker 2:juice. Yeah, I mean, that is the question I'm navigating every day. One of the things that I'm really passionate about moving forward and really pouring a lot of time into is growing the site off the site. So everyone always says, just per se, diversify your streams, and I've always had a that grape juice can be many things. You know perspective. A lot of my friends always joke that when they reference that grape juice as a blog, I'm very quick to correct them, but it's a platform and that is the lens through which I see it. So with that grape juice as the website, there's the video component, which encompasses like live performances, celebrity interviews and things of that nature. But one of the things I really want to do is grow the site off the site. So most of our traffic randomly comes from the US. Don't ask me why or how, right, but that's just, that's just what it is.
Speaker 2:But then obviously, in living in the UK, I want to engage the UK market the more, and what we've kind of found and are having quite initially good success with is events, so premieres, taste maker, screening, things of that nature.
Speaker 2:You know, ultimately if you are interested in Beyonce, rihanna, top Boy and so forth, you're more inclined to watch X film or Y film or Z film and we're kind of working with studios a lot more to kind of engage that audience, the more as a as a sphere there's been a lot of excitement around black films and black titles and I know as a consumer growing up, a lot of those films just never came out over here Like full stop.
Speaker 2:They just didn't score UK releases because the kind of internal feeling was that there wasn't an audience for them, whereas what we're trying to do the more is show that there is an audience for them and we're trying to engage the audience and we're trying to be a platform to propel that message even further. So we, you know, this year alone we've done quite a few screenings with some of the major film studios and beyond. Even just screenings we've done like events, taste maker, events with talent, you know, dinners, mixers, things of that nature, all under that great juice umbrella and it's something I want to really grow them more because I feel like sky is the limit in that regard.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. The sky is the limit. Sam, I just want to thank you again for your time today. It's been great having this conversation with you. I'm sure the audience will enjoy it as much as I did. I feel like the key takeaway on my end is twofold. So one is that grind right, so getting out there, being brave and just so grinding away and doing something that really feeds your passion. And the other component, which I know we only covered off a little bit, was the networking aspect and how networking is so much more than going to a party or the pub or whatever. It's really investing your network and ensuring that you're leaving behind a lasting note on your brand right and the importance of being kind and nice and good. Does that resonate?
Speaker 2:with you Absolutely resonates with me, absolutely. Guys, it really, exactly how you mentioned, is almost just the way I try and approach this journey. You know, being a good person, being work-led, knowing that you can't really cheat the game. You know you have to do the work, you have to pour in, you have to sacrifice to a degree, but then I have very tangible takeaways that you will yield the results ultimately in the end. So, even in tough times, I really try and use that as just helping me frame. You know, getting through those moments, knowing that like, look, you've been here before, pushed through, you've been here before. What's been the thing that's helped you forward? And I would say you know it is pouring time in, it's being a good person, it's being work-led. Yeah, things move from there and you do too.
Speaker 1:Sam, I can't thank you enough. I think you can't cheat the game. It's probably the most succinct answer to the conversation or description to the conversation. I've really enjoyed it. Thank you so much for your time. I know you're a busy man. You have some big, big names that you're rubbing shoulders with. I'm so honored to be one today. Thank you for your time and thanks to those who listened in.