Have you ever paused to marvel at the power of your heritage and how it shapes your identity? Serhat Ekinci, a charismatic figure from UNITE of OMG, joins me in this conversation which unpacks the vibrant hues that paint his leadership style and cultural savvy. His story is a kaleidoscope of experiences, from a childhood spent hustling in the markets of his native land to the boardrooms of the UK, where he now forges connections between brands and diverse communities. Serhat's narrative is a bold reminder of the threads of identity, mentorship, and heritage that weave through the fabric of effective leadership.
Serhat's tales of his early work life are nothing short of a testament to the resilience of the human spirit. Starting at just nine years old, his roles ranged from a mechanic shop assistant to a door-to-door surveyor, each job imbued with lessons on negotiation, confidence, and the sheer tenacity to succeed against the odds. These anecdotes are more than stories—they are the building blocks of a character that stands unshaken amidst the trials of work and life. Serhat's journey mirrors that of many immigrants, balancing education, work, and personal life, all while navigating the complexities of cultural identity and empowerment.
Join me, as we navigate the often-underrated terrains of networking and the intuition that guides business decisions. Serhat doesn't just walk us through the strategies of setting targets and profit planning; he shines a light on the value of gut instincts, honed by experience, in charting a course through the unpredictable world of business. His candid reflections are a masterclass in authenticity, offering hard-earned wisdom for those grappling with their own professional landscapes. So, let's immerse ourselves in the colours and contours of Serhat Ekinci's inspiring odyssey.
Your feedback is always welcome, as we strive to enhance the content's value for you. Enjoy Leadership in Colour - Voices you may not have heard from before.
Have you ever paused to marvel at the power of your heritage and how it shapes your identity? Serhat Ekinci, a charismatic figure from UNITE of OMG, joins me in this conversation which unpacks the vibrant hues that paint his leadership style and cultural savvy. His story is a kaleidoscope of experiences, from a childhood spent hustling in the markets of his native land to the boardrooms of the UK, where he now forges connections between brands and diverse communities. Serhat's narrative is a bold reminder of the threads of identity, mentorship, and heritage that weave through the fabric of effective leadership.
Serhat's tales of his early work life are nothing short of a testament to the resilience of the human spirit. Starting at just nine years old, his roles ranged from a mechanic shop assistant to a door-to-door surveyor, each job imbued with lessons on negotiation, confidence, and the sheer tenacity to succeed against the odds. These anecdotes are more than stories—they are the building blocks of a character that stands unshaken amidst the trials of work and life. Serhat's journey mirrors that of many immigrants, balancing education, work, and personal life, all while navigating the complexities of cultural identity and empowerment.
Join me, as we navigate the often-underrated terrains of networking and the intuition that guides business decisions. Serhat doesn't just walk us through the strategies of setting targets and profit planning; he shines a light on the value of gut instincts, honed by experience, in charting a course through the unpredictable world of business. His candid reflections are a masterclass in authenticity, offering hard-earned wisdom for those grappling with their own professional landscapes. So, let's immerse ourselves in the colours and contours of Serhat Ekinci's inspiring odyssey.
Your feedback is always welcome, as we strive to enhance the content's value for you. Enjoy Leadership in Colour - Voices you may not have heard from before.
I started these conversations to discuss leadership, mentorship, growth so much more voices you may not have heard from before. I hope the conversations inspire you, motivate you and give you something to think about. This leadership in colour. For myself, shazik Bah, is supported and powered by MIFA. Hello and welcome to leadership in colour. I always say I'm really pleased, but genuinely I'm really pleased to introduce Sarah Akinji to the call today, for a number of reasons. One is because he's a good friend of mine and the chat is always fantastic and secondly, he's giving me please do attest to this permission to essentially tell him to stop talking. Sarah, why don't you introduce yourself a little bit better than I just did?
Speaker 2:By the way, he's definitely right. I did tell him to stop me because I do tend to chat a lot. You'll hear it now. I'm Sarah Hatt from OMGUK Omnicon Media Group. I had a mini agency called OMGUnite, but yeah, that's who I am in a way. But yeah, let's chat.
Speaker 1:That's the most concise and succinct introduction.
Speaker 2:That you've ever heard me yeah exactly, that's the quickest one.
Speaker 1:Yet You've done that. You've done well. My first question is always the same Is there a story behind your name?
Speaker 2:Well, there is. There's a funny story. I think it might be. It's quite common from Turkey, where I'm originally from, I was named by the midwife and back in the old days and they still do actually we like rhyming names, so my name is Sarah Hatt. Then basically, we have three siblings, Sarah Farad Murad. So they're Murad Farad Sarah. I think the midwife just thought that sounded good. But from a meaning perspective I used to think it's got an awful meaning. It means borderline, but a friend of mine gave me a sort of more spiritual or psychological answer. It's like borderline in the sense of you connect borders. When I look back, I do start to believe in it. The reason is, you know, I'm married to my lovely wife, who is from Singapore, and what I do is about cultures as well. So maybe there was a deep down meaning to my name that I didn't know. But I don't think that was given to me on purpose.
Speaker 1:So you're saying that your name is the reason why you've got this fantastic multicultural dynamic at home?
Speaker 2:Probably. Yeah, I think so, I don't know. I've related back to it sometimes. It's like a connecting borders. It wasn't a borderline, but it literally means the line between borders and I feel like you know why have completely different continent and what I do is sort of help brands connect with different cultures, which is again I see as a border Like that's not been crossed before. It's like a border connector.
Speaker 1:I'll go with it, no worries, mate.
Speaker 2:That's what I believe, or what I make it sound better.
Speaker 1:But what you believe is all that matters. To be fair, if you want, we can launch a nickname for a Seraph now. You can be Mr Borderline if you want.
Speaker 2:But the problem is, borderline has different meanings, right? I mean, in a way I am on certain things, I do things that like to a borderline level. But yeah, I guess it suits me the name.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely so. You mentioned, the midwife named you right, so where were you born?
Speaker 2:I was born and bred in Istanbul, turkey. I've got two older brothers. Yeah, my parents moved to that. They actually have a really funny story which I love they eloped, so my parents used to live in the East and then my dad wanted to marry my mum but then my granddad wanted tons of what's the word for it diary like gold lands, and my dad was like there's no way I'm going to be able to make this at all because I don't have that much money. And they used to work in farming and animals and stuff like that. So one day, I think my dad was 19. My mum was 17 or 18. They literally packed their bag They've never left the village before and moved to Istanbul. That was about 50, 50 old years ago. Then they built a life out of it and here we are basically.
Speaker 1:So you're saying that your dad took your mother away from her hometown to avoid paying the dowry?
Speaker 2:Yeah, because he no, no, yes, yes, he did, but it wasn't because he didn't want to pay it. He didn't have it to pay it and there was no way he could. They were poor, basically, and there was no way that he could make that money, and to a level where I think my granddad didn't talk to my mum for about 10 old years, but I think that was the only way for them to be together.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so some of a very romantic, oh, absolutely.
Speaker 2:I love that story.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so love story. When we go back to the early years, you and I we caught up a couple of weeks back and we were talking about your work experience. I would say I wasn't expecting to hear your long list of work experience because I thought that I started working early, selling sort of sweets and candies and jokes stuff at school. But from what I recall you started working at the age of nine.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, correct. I mean there is a bit of a story behind it and it's. I think I've driven more from my parents. I was the youngest in the family and they always basically they used to talk about all the financial problems at home in front of me, assuming that I wouldn't understand because I was little. But I sort of understood it. It's like I don't know.
Speaker 2:I've never seen my dad buy new clothes, and he used to get clothes because he used to work for Turkish telecom and they give clothes every year. I remember like him fixing his shoes and trousers, that type of thing. The second reason was I always got jealous because my brother's a lot older and they used to get a lot of money than me. I was like I'm just going to earn money. So I asked my dad there used to be a mechanic around the corner and I love cars. No, I went there to ask and my dad he was a friend of my dad as well. So can I work to learn fixing cars with you? So then, yeah, from there onwards I remember like I started on my first summer holiday and I was there sort of an hour before and it was literally next door. I was waiting outside, in case you know like it's like you don't want to be late and I worked there for about three, four years, maybe five years, during summers and Saturdays. I loved it because it gave me power in this sense of I could do. I had money that I could spend on anything that I wanted. I helped my parents as well, so I used to give to my mum.
Speaker 2:Another reason I really loved about it was as the youngest in the household. I don't know if it was the same for you, but I never had the control of the remote to the TV. So we had it was a two bedroom flat, five of us, and all three of us stayed in one bedroom. I could, because I was the youngest. I never get the say to use the TV. My brothers didn't work by then, so I used to bribe them. I was like here's a tenner for you. You're not touching the remote this week. It's me controlling it so I could watch my cartoons or whatever. Yeah, from there I did various things, like I sold water in the market. So during hot summers you would make a lot of money in a day. I mean you would be amazed how much you can make. I did leafletting. I used to do weird things.
Speaker 1:Leafletting. Yeah, what's that? Oh, leafletting.
Speaker 2:So surveys surveys was a wicked way, like really, and I would say as well, like I would definitely I want to get my kids to do it. Surveys, like you know, people will say oh, door to door sales, as an example, is very difficult. Surveys is even more difficult because you want someone's half an hour an hour, in some case two hours of your time, without anything. Like you know, it's not a charity donation you're trying to get, it's not a product that you're trying to sell. So you have to confidence wise. It built my confidence massively, like just knocking on strangers doors.
Speaker 1:I think there's a lot in that. I don't know about the service, but it's definitely something that I've thought about, which is we've got a new sales team. In particular, get them to volunteer to be what I call a clipboard terrorist. What is that? I don't know why I call them a clipboard terrorist, but it's, you know, because they're on the streets and they're like can I have a minute of your time please? It feels like they're terrorizing people with trying to get. They're not really are they. That's not a kind description. They're usually trying to get money for some sort of charity or what have you. But I do think that that builds a lot of character, because how many nodes are you getting in a day?
Speaker 2:100%, Even the face. The thing is, though, the charity is a lot easier. So I used to do charities because there's a charity element attached to it, but when you trying to do like a big multinational company who's got nothing to do with it, it was, but it gave me so much experience like being chased from the what's? The man that looks after the building, the person Portman, or like they knows? Like big, very luxe estates. They used to have people that look after the building and you get them to buy stuff.
Speaker 2:Anyways, like I've been to look, like I've been, I've been pulled into a brothel that I did. And you're knocking at door, and they told me it's like the stories that I have from surveys are unbelievable, but I think it does build. It's just even knocking on someone's door like dogs. Like you knock on the door, dogs chase you. Suddenly it's just like unknown. You're knocking at door. You don't know what's going to come, what's behind. It could be the nicest person, it could be the nastiest person, it's just you see. You see, like all sorts of things in a way, but I loved it, so I did that.
Speaker 1:Hang on, wait a second. You see, you got pulled into a brothel once. I imagine that you must have got a lot of surveys filled in.
Speaker 2:No, you can only do one per house. That's annoying, but it was really. I think I was 17 or 16, I can't remember. So, yeah, I pulled like still a bit naive, I mean, I was aware, but I've never like I've got nothing to do with. So it was like really awkward. They're like oh, come, and then they call like come, sugar, my sweet darling, or whatever, and I was like okay, and he always felt awkward and a bit scared when someone calls into your home because it could be anything and it's like do I go in? Then I'm like I've got a quarter to fill in. And you know, some days it's like you knock on those 30, 40 of them, no one wants to do it.
Speaker 2:There were days that you don't get a survey done and there are days that you just shine through. It was like a very and you get paid per survey. So it's a hit and miss job in that sense, like a bit like freelancing in a way. But yeah, they put me in. They actually give me like cookies, drink, they were, they were the loveliest people in the world. So I felt they and they filled in the survey and I left and then like that, you know, it was like quite, I went in and was weird, like it's all this smoke and those are women in?
Speaker 1:We don't need to go into the details. Yeah, so then you've got this diverse CV right before you've even finished studying and then you come to the UK to learn English. Is that right?
Speaker 2:Yes, basically I had my uncle used to live here. Well, a bit of a reason. I mean, this is complicated, but basically it's also to run away from the military in a way. So you have to do this compulsory, and my brother had very bad experience on it. I won't go into detail, but so it was.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was basically a way to get away, but to learn English you need. That was the core reason I was wanted to come to London in particular. This is a bit like seeing from outside and that's like the place to be, if that makes sense, like admiration. But yeah, I came to learning English initially basically, yeah, I worked in my uncle's coffee shop, so initially I was washing dishes, then I learned to wait, then became a chef there, then, yeah, I moved away basically from them and then I worked in a supermarket. I did worked in a coffee shop in a mini cab. I think that was really good experience. I used to do double shifts as well, like, basically, I then decided to go to university, so I was learning English.
Speaker 2:Then I was like, look, I need to. I always say this, but uncle was a driving factor as well. He wanted me to basically earn money and then open a coffee shop or a kebab shop, not to downgrade. I think it's a, you know it's actually, if you own it, it's a well paid job. I was like I want to do to do something different, and he drove me down as well. Like he basically said Lucan, I basically said I want to build a career because my mom wanted it as well. Like you know, typical thing. Like they want us to be well educated and have office. You know, have become a white color. If that makes sense Then. But he did see, basically said you can't. You'll always be a junior in an office. Like you can't. There's only so much you can do in an office if that makes sense. And it was always like you're an immigrant, like you'll never. It's very rare that you make it to the top type of mindset Then. Then I, yeah, that's. At that point I was like do you know what I'm going to start? I'm going to go to university.
Speaker 2:Then I signed up to university it was like a dual degree of another university of Gloucestershire and I used to work in the mini cab doing sort of Saturday to Sunday shift, so starting at Sunday, saturday at four, then finishing at eight AM Sunday morning as a driver in the office, no, no, no, the controller. Oh, okay, I learned English, yeah, and and and. Then I used to do one day from eight to a, four to eight I think it was Wednesday. Then at the site I started doing like a media consultancy. Basically take it's like multiple, multiple, national. That's where my language sort of became very useful. You take like it's earn media analysis. So you take across social articles, printed articles or digital radio TV like clips of what people talk about you as a brand, and then you would trans, create it like get that meaning in English and put like favourable. Is it favourable? Was it about your message? So it was quite. It was used mostly by PR side of either brands or agencies.
Speaker 2:But, yeah, I went to university, which my last in Gloucestershire, so that was a bit of a nightmare, like traveling as well, I think. Yeah, I met my lovely wife, who was like a friend of my ex teacher. Then I basically got married while going to university. So it's been like what 15, is this our 15th year? And and Congratulations, sarah, thank you. Then yeah, so yeah.
Speaker 2:Then then I did various other jobs like receptionist at a hostel. I was an events steward. That was bloody nightmare, like carrying tabes, setting up event rooms. So I had like two jobs, two free jobs during university, then going to Gloucestershire for a day I would stay there. Those were very interesting times again, at times that really made me stronger in a way. Like I tend to make frustration a positivity, like I used to stay in YMCH and it was like a 10 quid a night but, believe me or not, it was like anything but a like a hostel. It was like I remember the pillow. It wasn't a pillow like you would need witnesses to say it was a pillow. It was like really thin, tiny thing.
Speaker 1:The sort of thing that you fold up 100 times before you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I used to basically roll it. But, even when I used to put my jacket underneath to make it like go up, because it is like, even when you fold it like twice or three times, it still the idea becomes like a neck, it becomes too small, you can't really put your head on there, but also like the fides and loudness.
Speaker 1:Why are you saying in these hostels, I don't choose to stay with the uncle?
Speaker 2:No, no, no, no. I moved away from my uncle, so that's been ages, so that's like pre-university anyways. Uncle one was a bit complicated as well, like a suddenly basically said he literally sold everything. Then he moved to Turkey, that retired I'm leaving after like 22 or years. So I almost, like for a few days, actually became homeless, but it wasn't as bad and I wasn't like my uncle was only giving me pocket money when I was working with him, so it wasn't like you know, you don't pay rent, etc. So I suddenly became like I had to become independent fully, which was really good and I'm really really glad it happened.
Speaker 2:But yeah, that was when I was going to a language school. Then this was a state with my no, I was staying with myself, I would. Then I moved in with my nose at a later stage, but that was, I think, when I was staying with my by myself, when I was working in the mini cab. But yeah, then the university was in Gloucestershire, in Cheltenham, but the, so we I had like almost three days of work, so Tuesdays I would go and come back, which I think to most people is in nightmares and you spend five hours journey just on the train, and that doesn't include, like the tube and the bus to get home, but the.
Speaker 2:I would go on Tuesday, I can't fully remember now. Basically I would go on Tuesday because I had classes on Tuesday, so I would go Tuesday morning, then Wednesday I had classes, but I had to stay in a hostel because I didn't. I didn't make that much money, I was a student and doing multiple jobs on the side, so, um, yamch was the cheapest place to be, basically, um, so I would stay a day there and then Wednesday, um, I head back to London. So I didn't actually live in Cheltenham. I mean, I would have loved to, but is in, but I didn't have the luxury of like a staying in a, um, a student house and not work type of thing. So I had to sort of fund myself to for my visa as well, which was a nightmare, and I still get annoyed with the. I remember, um, local students would pay 3k and I used to pay 10k, so it was like a nightmare to earn that money while trying to live and to save. You know it was.
Speaker 1:It was quite difficult quite a bit of pressure, right. So I remember during university I had to work as well, but not for the same reasons. But uh, there is quite a bit of pressure on a student which almost shouldn't be there so that you can focus on your studies. So but it does make you, it gives you something, gives your character, something that experience not 100%, I think.
Speaker 2:I don't want to sound brutal, but I but even with my kids, I want them to experience, like you know, I think we, we, we were chatting pre this, but it's more like a to learn gratitude and value of things. I'm not talking everything from a financial perspective, but finance does play a big part because of my background as well, not having that much um of that when I was growing up, like you know, don't you? You value things better when you know. You know, when it's an example like the first, I first time I started working in a mechanic, when I first got my weekly wage, I valued the money that my mom. But my dad used to give me a lot more and I just understood why. He would sometimes question, like why did you spend you know that was your weekly wage? As an example, pre pre working, like when you give me pocket money, why did you spend it so quickly? Why did you buy this? Or you know, like, just because it's hot, it was like 12 hours, six days, it's, it's bloody hard working. I'm like this is the only how much money you get, so you understand what it means more in that sense. So, like as a student as well.
Speaker 2:I think one of the things like a lot of my uni friends used to live in the campus which is literally a minute away from the university. I used to come from London, so I used to work up at like four, five to be there at eight. We used to have like group meetings as well on projects, so that we would have meetings at eight. I was the earliest there and the ones that were late were the ones that live next door and it's that half an hour later, etc. But those are the ones that didn't have to work at all and I think it's just because they've never felt the hardness. I'm not saying people need to feel the hardness, but they just need it's like a balance of understanding the value and and have gratitude for what you have. And I don't. I didn't feel like they had them, but so, yeah, they're coming back to my point.
Speaker 2:I think having to have to work made me value university, like. But despite doing three jobs, I still got two one first, basically, which, especially for someone who didn't know a word in English um, like six, five years ago, four, four, five years ago, pre going to university, I felt really proud of myself and I don't think I would do it if, let's say, somehow my parents were able to pay for everything and I, all I did was just go to school, go to university to get what I mean yeah, I, we speak a bit about your education, but there is a part of your life in particular that, if you don't mind, I'd like to talk a bit about, and that was your upbringing, because you were brought up in Turkey, but as a Kurdish person, right yeah, turkish, kurdish, yeah, uh, don't.
Speaker 2:I don't know what they did basically. Well, turkey was. Turkey is definitely very diverse. It was basically what was left from Ottoman, and Ottoman was very, very diverse. Um, it was the. Obviously they did brutal things like every other empress, but from incompressible others they still accommodate for other ethnicities and religions type of thing. They didn't just kill them in a way, that's what they would do anyways.
Speaker 2:So there was always a story with basically our language as an example was forbidden. It wasn't. You weren't allowed to speak it. Um, and they've always been the um, the, the minority that's been sort of bullied or seen as back out, back, backdated, thinking, ignorant, ignorant. Yeah, it was basically not appreciate.
Speaker 2:If you're basically Kurdish, you would be downgraded in the society. But we were. I mean, we grew up in Istanbul, so my look could still give away that. I'm not fully well, I'm not white Turkish, if that makes sense. Um, but yeah, basically my, a lot of my relatives. They had to move away, basic door.
Speaker 2:I know people who died basically or being killed because of it. I don't know about my parents and parents, so we had to live in a. I don't have to explain it. My parents probably had that harder, but we had to pretend, but basically we wouldn't be able to speak our language or tell people what would that record dish? Because it wasn't. You would get issues even in school as an example, like if you said it, then you're, we've differently, so we would. You know, my dad used to say, like when we go out, don't say a word in Kurdish or don't. They didn't even teach us properly. To be honest, like I can't still speak it, I can speak like certain sentences and stuff like that. So, yeah, it was like a scene as a very negative to be um, um and I'm telling I think 10, 10, 15 years ago it became like a language that you can speak, or or religious side of it, but I won't go into that. Uh, is it was very different as well.
Speaker 1:Um, that's going to be a strange environment to being as a child, because children are brutal and if you're in the playground and you're hearing your mates or someone say something against Kurdish people, how do you handle that? Because there must have been a bit of that right it was?
Speaker 2:yes, it did happen. I think you live in you hide and I, again, I try to see the positive in it. It made my skin thicker in a way of like being able to deal with hard situations better. Yeah, it did happen. Even um, religion wise as well, it was like really weird because of our religion. It was like you don't talk about it and it's still not seen as a part of religion, but that's a deep topic because of the way we do it, etc. Um, yeah, it was hard.
Speaker 2:Imagine people come in front of you, they talk badly about your background but you can't say anything, as in you could. But it's not a case of like you know, okay, let's move something. Like doing that would cause could, could, could get you killed. Like back in the days they would mark people's doors as an example, like if you're Kurdish or if you're al-Avai, etc. Like as a um target, if that makes sense. Um, and literally probably could talk to you and you couldn't do anything about it. If you know what I mean. Like it's because you're seen as a minority, that they, that they don't want, or you, they think you're trying to break things in the country and, um, you're not a positive thing to have. But, yeah, I, I hid many of it and I think it's to.
Speaker 2:To be perfectly honest, I think until I got here it's like I think some I when I talk to friends as well, some people who are like born and bred here but from a different ethnicity or cultural religion, they have that as well I had like a circle, what I call a cultural circle. By that by that I mean I hated it for years, like to a level where you're like why am I? Why do I have a darker skin color? Why am I from this? What did I do? Why am I poor? You know you have that. Um, I don't want to call it hatred but, like you always question like why, why I wasn't that guy who's white and had loads of money that they're, you know, like they don't have to think about every single penny that they have to spend until later in life. Then you start to understand politics and things. Then you realize, look, it's not a fault and it's not my fault that I was born into it. I should be proud of my background. Basically, I wasn't proud of who I was or my background.
Speaker 2:I almost made myself fully Turkish, which I regret from a language perspective in particular, that I didn't made an extra effort to learn it, or my parents didn't want us to learn, or they only spoke at home a bit. Um. So, yeah, that was a different thing. But then I turned that into what I call a superpower, because that what made me much more driven, much more harder. It's like I am gonna make it's in my hands, like I can sit down and bloody cry about things. How it was.
Speaker 2:I was from this, I was from that. No one gave me x, y, z, but I'm I almost like, turned it into my superpower where, even from being turkish, right like I I say, like you know, we used to work 60 hours a week. It was I turned it into an advantage. So when I came here, I was like I fix stuff, I, I'll work the hardest not that you should work the hardest person, but I gave 200% to everything and that was, I guess, one of the reasons in my career that helped me a lot as well, because I turned my frustration into a positive. That gave me the drive. I'm gonna change this situation. Yes, you can be no uncle, you can't, you know you say this, but I'm gonna prove you're wrong, I'm gonna do this, but it was hard.
Speaker 2:But I think it was hard in a no, when I look back, good way, I had a brilliant childhood. By the way, like some of my childhood, when I tell people like my wife laughs about it and you know, we used to jump, like it was like jumping off building buildings to sand on the fifth, fourth floor, like that was a like most fun activity. Or we used to go into, like random buildings when they knocked them down to rebuild. We used to collect copper from there. Like it was fun.
Speaker 2:I think to a lot of people if it might sound like you had a really awful childhood, but it was fun, I mean there were butt bits that I hated. I like hiding stuff or neglecting who you are, like trying to be someone else, part um, but I still had a winning childhood. I think people think, oh, you had to work, you have to do this, but, um, I've enjoyed my childhood. Sorry, I've probably gone off. I just, yeah, this is the time you've got to stop me. I'm going into various directions. Now it's just let's, let's, let's. I'm visualising things in my head like my childhood comes back. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I couldn't pull you away from that visualisation. I think everyone else was enjoying the visuals as well. Authenticity, yes. Personally, I think we're in such a beautiful time right now and hopefully it's going to be fantastic for our kids and the generations to come where being authentic is, as you describe it, a superpower, right like like really bringing your, your full self and your true self to every experience, although that's a deeper conversation itself. And how much are you allowed to bring with yourself and in which environments, and so and so. But if I was you, I think I would struggle with that authenticity only because you, if I, if I listen to your experience back in Turkey, it feels like you weren't allowed to be authentic. And then you came over here at a period where I don't know what was your experience in, in the allowance to be authentic. Who?
Speaker 2:I mean, in the first few years it was fine because I was, you know, with my uncle, with my blood, if that makes sense. So that's similar. So you're in this bubble, in the bubble, yeah, in the bubble like the Turkish, kurdish bubble, um, and the funny thing was when I was learning English, like, yes, I went to like a language school for a few hours a day, but a lot of it I learned in Tottenham from my sort of British born, but Turkish, kurdish and black, like it's a very different accent, if that makes sense. So, and I remember my jobs in particular as well, but I think it came from the background as well, where my dad said like, be this, you know. Like don't be yourself. It sounds really awful, but don't be authentic in a way, um. So when I started working in offices here in particular, I was trying my best to have Queen's English or like certain things you don't say, you just um, I think first gen immigrant mindset as well you just do what you're told, don't be loud. You know that mindset, I had it for a long time and it was a nightmare and that's why I think whoever I talked to, or like when I said, be authentic, and I think it's an overused word, but basically, just be yourself.
Speaker 2:Now I give a good example. It's like um analogy. It's like you're part or you're married to someone. Right, technically, we spend more time at work in some cases with your teammates, etc. You spend more time than you do with your wife, especially if you've got kids as well. You know you need to diversify. I'm not talking about the sleeping time, but like a awake time, and it's like being in a relationship where you lie constantly. That relationship will break and you will feel bad. It isn't, it's not going to perform. You're not going to perform the well. But I think if you let yourself be and that doesn't mean, like I think some people might say, like be yourself, do this be rude? No, that's not what it is. It's more bring yourself in a kind way that doesn't affect others in a bad way. Obviously you have to think about that, but you perform better.
Speaker 2:I think it used to suppress me a lot certain things, like, you know, the fix in mindset that comes from being a mechanic and hassling young age. I've realized a lot of people don't actually have it here in office in wine, and nor so I used to when I started sort of being myself. Look, that doesn't work, I'm just going to go and fix it, not because no one tells me not to like, we don't be not looking at it, but I know that could save time, like operationally I would. I would go and attract the developers normally I'm not, they're not my contact to work with ones like I've got this idea, can we bring it? It's going to save us six, many hours in terms of work. And we do it. And it was like, oh, we didn't know this, so most like I bring in that. Being authentic myself almost helped me move up in my career.
Speaker 1:So let me ask you a question. You're interviewing for roles, you know, for your first job, your first full-time job. Personally now, I think if someone said to me you know they were shining shoes and fixing windows and selling surveys, you know, and being a mechanic as a young age, I would see that as something fantastic. You can see the work ethic. You can see this person has a whole bunch of different skills, people skills and what have you. I'm not too sure that hiring managers had the same mindset, you know, over a decade ago. Did you used to tell them about your diverse upbringing?
Speaker 2:no, no no, and also, in a way, I think there's one story I'm I'd like to mention that somewhere, I can't remember, but I'm so during university as well, right, I was like I'm gonna finish when you get into one of those. I mean, I was older, so there was another basic. I had a gap between uni within high school and uni, a coming here. Then I was, I left, but I finished high school in Turkey. Then I tried to set up my own business, which didn't work out, etc. So it was like slightly older than the general students, so I had work experience. So I even already worked in marketing. I've done work like non okay professional work as well, like I worked in surveys and stuff still fall into some sort of professionalism. I was like, you know, in comparison to others, I've still got work experience. I've got first, I can get into places and I remember lying I am not exaggerating hundreds of jobs on a weekly basis at home, online and writing cover, like not just sending a cover, like fixed cover letter, buying those, like quality printing paper, printing the cover letter and then CV, literally going around accounting firms.
Speaker 2:And that's why I studied. I didn't get a job. I mean, I did have three job offers. In the end it was an accountancy. Then all my other friends, they just got like and I know they didn't even apply for jobs like it was really. Then that's, I think, when I started. The areas hold on a second. That's where my difference is actually a minus to a lot of people.
Speaker 1:So yeah, it did what do you think was the difference between you and your, your friends, or your, your, your fellow students? Was it the name? Was it the heritage? Was it your experience? What was it?
Speaker 2:I mean not to victimize, but I think it. Eight was my experience, my background. I wasn't born in British, I'm not potentially even this day.
Speaker 1:I was in white and I didn't know the right people in the right environment so you've got an issue there of your dad doesn't have a black book and isn't introducing you to someone why that wasn't even here no one sees, just by myself, yeah. I can tell you relate, I understand.
Speaker 2:Yeah, okay, so you've got that.
Speaker 1:So you've, you're not, you're not connected to these organizations in that way. Right? You aren't British born. You also don't have a traditional Christian name.
Speaker 2:And I wasn't British either by then. So that means even a minus in working in places like some of the wasn't British as well.
Speaker 1:Okay, so there might be an issue there. So maybe some firms couldn't hire you because of yeah, because of that is that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so basically I was allowed to work without a sponsorship visa, but it was still. Yeah, like it's not. I know that minus is even now if you're not visa thing. I didn't need a visa but maybe could be. I will need a visa at some point. So do we invest in this guy?
Speaker 2:But yeah, it was many reasons. Maybe I was writing things wrong or like some of them. I remember I was trying to, I got, I did get an internship in a treasure as well, but even during my second year was trying to get into a internships in places because I was like this build it, my logic and experience will be better. I literally let the council. They used to say, look, I don't want any money, I just want to come and work, I'll help you print, you know, like do your leg work, but it's like no, but you need a desk, like I don't have space for you, that type of mindset. But yeah, I think there might be. I'm sure some of them could be due to discrimination and stuff, but I don't think all was. But I was definitely a disadvantage to most. Not knowing even anyone, let alone your dad or mum, will be connected she's? I don't know the system yet, if that makes sense.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I totally hear you. And then, when you, when you look at the system you and I, we spoke about this before there's one component of the system that I think is really important, and you mentioned it as well when we last spoke, and that was sort of networking, I think. I think networking, you know, if you network, then your, it helps you with your career, also helps you support any friends, family or what have you, because you can open up your little black book or, let's be honest, linkedin, right yeah, and do some introductions and support people. Is that something that you invested in early on?
Speaker 2:No, so I was. I think that's when I talk to people that's another thing I always recommend network, network, network. I remember, you know, like this hard work in mindset I have. It's like I used to work bloody 60 hours of working 35 or 50 hours. That's like an alien office as well. Like fixing cars is a lot harder carrying. You know, doing that very, very physical jobs is a lot harder to deal with in long hours. So it was a. For me it's like a really easy thing working in front of a laptop, etc. But I always work really, really hard and I just give it my best and it did help me with my career. But there's a but around me and I used to one day as well that was basically hard working.
Speaker 2:Hard working will become my weapon because I felt in a way victimize, that I've seen people who I know their work is rubbish, like they were getting promoted, they were getting things. I was like how is that possible? Like I know their work, like how? Then you slowly realize they, their relationship building is much better than mine and I don't blame like because especially in the first you know, five years of a life, you're not British, even like if you go into a very British environment. You don't even the actors or things that you know, that you've learned for. You know, 20 odd years are completely different. So this, from a social perspective, you still struggle a bit or even what we eat is very different. You know that there's a difference which is naturally comes because you're born and bred in a different country, but you're networking.
Speaker 2:I think if I had to say one thing that you focus on is networking internally and externally, and I was really awful at it and it is a person as well. I mean, I always come across as an extrovert, but my groups are very close. Friends is always. Basically, I always say like if very few, one or two very close friends the others are just friends is in the sense of I'll meet them somewhere here in there, but there's only one or two people on a date. Like my wife tells me off on WhatsApp chats all the time. It's like can you respond to them? Can you do this? I'm awful. I like my social circle. I've got loads of friends that I meet for very close ones, it's like one or two max. So, but what I would recommend is just network because it creates opportunities for you as well. You know what's happening, you know when, where it just opens doors for you and I think at an early age in particular, a lot of people forget that. So I would say if I have to change one thing, it would be the networking line. Even uni is a good example.
Speaker 2:So the two jobs I got three jobs offer in the end. One of them was what I used to do, media consultancy anyways. The second one was in a did. The other two were in a pub. So there was an event at the university then which I was involved in and there was an after drinks event. Basically went to the pub, chat it to the guys and stuff, literally both of them and one it was like a footsie 250 company treasure, like is not a tiny guy, if that makes sense. He offered me a role. Look all those see all those CVs, cover letters, things that I've sent the doors, that I know I couldn't get it.
Speaker 1:I got it in a social environment and they didn't offer it to anyone else there and I'm telling you, man, like is a factor that I didn't really used to go to the pub a lot after work, but I would go. The amount of work and business, chat and opportunities that happen after work there or people on their fag breaks, yes, these are all networking opportunities. And it's funny you mentioned university because I think that is the place where I missed out the most on networking. I just focused on sort of like studying going home. I didn't really do a lot. I had a small group of friends.
Speaker 1:But you're right, networking and networking early doors and the guys that I see doing well, I'm not necessarily necessarily people that got in an hour early like you did or like I did, all the people that are working hard on their computer late tonight. They're actually the guys that stroll in at 10am or did stroll in at 10am, usually hanging from the night before because they've been to the pub till late. But they did well because they think they just networked right. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:And I think people forget, like I used to see, as that's not something you know. I think that comes from a maybe minority mindset as well, like an injury and doctors it's not a job like, networking is not a thing like I'm not going to do this.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, no, no, no, no, no. I never had that thing. It's never paid away. It was more like a chat into people. Is is not a thing. It's more like I know how to use exactly my own little carries, like I can do V lookups, I can do this.
Speaker 2:I can use this software, as you know, like, that's like a skill. I can write a report, but it's like, what do you mean? So you don't think of it as a skill set. It's like a going to a pub, that's not a networking thing. Do you get me like a?
Speaker 2:skill set, that so it's the most important one. You just don't know it in early carries because you're like I, rather I don't know. I'm going to watch YouTube videos of how to do design on a PowerPoint or how to do that. That's your mindset, like you. That's more tangible things that you do, but you don't think it's going to the pub or hanging about, even having a cigarette, like I remember by best ideas. Or I don't know what my work in has been. I don't smoke now. I mean I still vape, but I'm smoking when it was like not cool, but when it was not a bit more normal in in more socially acceptable, more socially acceptable. My best ideas came from smoking it, from my career, because I could just do nothing, sometimes by myself, talking to people like very underrated.
Speaker 1:You know, it's a very different environment, right catching me in a different environment, away from the noise, and you have a conversation that's straight to the point that I totally agree with you. There is is definitely something in there about networking, and people that are good at networking have a whole host of sort of soft skills. Yep soft skills 100% that they develop and also, I guess, they're painting themselves as likeable magnetic individuals.
Speaker 2:Yeah but you also learn not to interrupt. I think you learn people. What I mean by that is if your boss is going to, you're going to pub, right, and I think a bit of a disadvantage, like I can. Mine is different, like part time Muslim, except I don't drink that much, but when they are a bit drunk they're much more. You lose that cover on yourself. If that makes sense, you're more yourself.
Speaker 2:You literally learn what they like, what they don't like, what, what ticks the box with them which you can apply to your work. You actually learn from there. So it's not just about getting to chat to a bus, but it's something that you can take. I don't know they want to make more money. That's the goal, like even when you can talk about work, to get more useful stuff in a pub. Then you could get in a first catch up with your boss in an office environment. I don't know if I'm sorry I interrupted there, but I think there's yeah. Then you apply to your work, you'll like your way of working, basically, what ticks in this company, what ticks with that person, and that's what matters to them, if you know what I mean.
Speaker 1:I think it's definitely a component of being able to understand someone's perspective a lot better yeah because they're in a different environment and they're, as opposed to trying to say to you in a very sort of professional business speak. I really don't want you to do that. Yeah, or the reason why I'm backing this is because of X in the pub. They'll just say I didn't really like that, or I'm really after something else. I see this as my goal or whatever, right. So I genuinely do believe that it's sound advice that you're giving to invest in networking. Yeah, okay, 100%. I'm gonna switch gears here. Yes, go for it, right? This final bit of the conversation is what are you working on at the moment? What's what's keeping you up from a work perspective?
Speaker 1:oh gosh, uh, you're at unite yes, so yeah it specializes in in brand diversity right, and that's mostly working with OMG, but also external clients. Is that right?
Speaker 2:correct. So basically we are a specialist, what I call a hybrid agency that sits within OMG UK. We work with internal clients across our agencies OMG, phd, hudson, science, mgomd as well as external clients. We help clients diversify their media, marketing and advertising in general to to be more inclusive of their audiences basically what marketing should do, but we helped do it better that. So people from marginalized communities background are included through their insight strategy to creative and content, to media choices and how it adapts their lives. Quite the moment, what keeps me awake at work it's it's our profit planning time. So going into September is to. So basically during September we deal with um, how much we've made? Have we hit our targets this year? What are we going to do next year? How to, yeah, what, what areas we're going to focus from a but it's almost like a mini business plan every year what is our, what is our priorities, how much we're gonna make?
Speaker 1:so let's, let's go straight to that. Yes, how are you guys gonna make some money next?
Speaker 2:year, oh, um, I think that we're going to another topic, like in okay, that's another thing. One advice, I think follow your guts. So where I think I used to be very organized or very book, but basically like, no, okay, this is what I'm going to do, this is the client I'm going to get. No, I follow where the money is. That's our approach. So what we have is we got a list of clients by agencies, so that's existing clients, retain businesses and the clients that we've been talking to this year. So we do a lot of the build-ups, but, like now, we do have a lot of conversation for 2020.
Speaker 2:For I think the beauty of being a specialist, you talk to everyone across the group, all client teams and everyone to get their views, because there's so many variables in terms of your revenue stream. Like, the person may not, the budgets might have cut down, someone is changing, there's organizational change in the company, so we have a target client targets, so you might. Only is I used to have basic list of target clients. I'm like you're gonna get these clients, chase them until we get them, but if it's now, I follow my gut, that means I still have a list of target clients, but I meet them, meet the client, partner etc. But if I know it's not going to work, basically I don't run off things that deep down in my gut I know it's not going to come to fritation, so it's not going to happen. So we've got lists of clients that we want to target them go, some retain businesses or clients that we know they're going to come back. And then the other areas is development or like a new product called monetization opportunities, whether it's through partnerships or creation of like news and new research, like this year we did on G sensors as an example, which then, like we're looking at the sensors that happened last year and that created a lot of leads for us.
Speaker 2:So it's a bit of a, I would say, like nerve wracking. Every is like a nerve wracking. Sometimes you start this like you don't know what's going to happen, especially with all the uncertainty happening. Like having a cool target and sticking to it is very hard. But touch words. We've never missed targets. We've always hit them, so I'm pretty confident I so it's almost like it's been like seven years, especially here. Every year is the nervous part. You know we see unit increase the targets every year. That's how you grow, etc. Always get nervous, but we always deliver over, deliver it. So I'm pretty confident we will. We will do all right, but follow your guts. I think that's if I were to give advice. Guts are the most important thing that people sometimes forget. Even sometimes data tells me not to buy.
Speaker 1:Use my gut so I usually round off these conversations with a sort of final thought, with this one apart from everyone knowing how hard working you are and that they should come to you if they need to change their car door and you know, there's much more that the advice that you can give and guidance to support. I got two themes here. I got networking and following your guts. Which one would you go for?
Speaker 2:follow your gut, gut, gut, gut gut, like okay, maybe it's also based on my experience. I was awful at networking early carries, but I still got to where I am through various things. And there is a thing there as well okay, maybe I don't know whether that's a, I'm just creating another story but when I I actually studied financial management and accounts so I'm part qualified chartered accountant I did that to make my parents happy. I hated it. I was like I can't do this. It's literally the same. It was basically not me.
Speaker 2:I like media because I used to do media analysis, like you know. It was fun. I follow my guts and I did two offers that was to do with finance. I went through media and even throughout my career I swap soon I used to do earn media operation analysis that I moved into market research. I did paid media. I follow my guts and it got me somewhere. You know, although I was awful at networking, my guts and hard work got me here. So I would say, if you were to compare, your guts is more important, but obviously knowing your guts as well. If your guts is telling you the wrong thing all the time, then you need to question that. But for me it's like maybe not gut, but it's like follow what feels right, like don't make that five-year plan type of thing, have a rough plan, but like follow your guts and see where it takes you but I think you had a point and then you kind of trialled off, didn't you?
Speaker 1:I'm gonna take the final thought as follow your guts, with some caveats there on if you, if your gut keeps telling you the wrong thing, then maybe about it, yeah, thanks, thanks again, and thanks again to those who tuned in.