Whether it's geeking out over a treasure trove of classic cameras or tackling the gnarly beast of authenticity in a world craving the real deal, we've got stories to stir both heart and humor. Pausing for a moment, we delve into the Rick Rubin podcast's wisdom, which stirs a profound dialogue on staying true to our artistic roots, even as the audience's eyes multiply.
Navigating the choppy waters of expectations and anxiety, we pull back the curtain on the inner turmoil that often accompanies content creation. Our discussion takes a turn toward the personal as we admit to wrestling with the mental barriers that can handcuff progress. The irony of being trapped by our own standards is not lost on us, and through our vulnerabilities, we share how embracing openness is much like nurturing a healthy relationship – essential for growth and genuine expression.
As the conversation meanders through the changing seasons, we reflect on how these transitions mirror shifts in our work and life. Relationships serve as both a mirror and a sounding board, echoing back the nervous energy that comes hand-in-hand with creative endeavors. Wrapping up, we peer ahead with optimism into the summer months, anticipating new opportunities for collaboration and renewal, bringing a fresh zest to our ongoing quest for growth and the truest form of storytelling. -Ai
If you enjoyed this episode, please consider giving us a rating and/or a review. We read and appreciate all of them. Thanks for listening, and we'll see you in the next episode.
Links To Everything:
Video Version of The Podcast: https://geni.us/StudioSessionsYT
Matt’s YouTube Channel: https://geni.us/MatthewOBrienYT
Matt’s 2nd Channel: https://geni.us/PhotoVideosYT
Alex’s YouTube Channel: https://geni.us/AlexCarterYT
Matt’s Instagram: https://geni.us/MatthewIG
Alex’s Instagram: https://geni.us/AlexIG
Whether it's geeking out over a treasure trove of classic cameras or tackling the gnarly beast of authenticity in a world craving the real deal, we've got stories to stir both heart and humor. Pausing for a moment, we delve into the Rick Rubin podcast's wisdom, which stirs a profound dialogue on staying true to our artistic roots, even as the audience's eyes multiply.
Navigating the choppy waters of expectations and anxiety, we pull back the curtain on the inner turmoil that often accompanies content creation. Our discussion takes a turn toward the personal as we admit to wrestling with the mental barriers that can handcuff progress. The irony of being trapped by our own standards is not lost on us, and through our vulnerabilities, we share how embracing openness is much like nurturing a healthy relationship – essential for growth and genuine expression.
As the conversation meanders through the changing seasons, we reflect on how these transitions mirror shifts in our work and life. Relationships serve as both a mirror and a sounding board, echoing back the nervous energy that comes hand-in-hand with creative endeavors. Wrapping up, we peer ahead with optimism into the summer months, anticipating new opportunities for collaboration and renewal, bringing a fresh zest to our ongoing quest for growth and the truest form of storytelling. -Ai
If you enjoyed this episode, please consider giving us a rating and/or a review. We read and appreciate all of them. Thanks for listening, and we'll see you in the next episode.
Links To Everything:
Video Version of The Podcast: https://geni.us/StudioSessionsYT
Matt’s YouTube Channel: https://geni.us/MatthewOBrienYT
Matt’s 2nd Channel: https://geni.us/PhotoVideosYT
Alex’s YouTube Channel: https://geni.us/AlexCarterYT
Matt’s Instagram: https://geni.us/MatthewIG
Alex’s Instagram: https://geni.us/AlexIG
And it's been a golden afternoon and I remember having the familiar conviction that life was beginning over again with the summer and summer.
Speaker 2:I guess we should give pre-context, because this is business as usual for anybody watching, but it's not business as usual on our end. So I'll let you kind of guide us then, maybe, and then we can discuss it more.
Speaker 1:We have not Just falling a little bit out of the rhythm of regular weekly podcast.
Speaker 2:We have I was on vacation for a week, you were on vacation for a week. Thanksgiving, christmas, right, yep. And then we did sit down.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:At one point we were just kind of in a grumpy mood. Well, really since before Thanksgiving.
Speaker 1:Well, yeah, and what happened with?
Speaker 2:you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that not like alluding to some like you.
Speaker 2:Like you, no, no, no, yeah, family, thing, family. Thing.
Speaker 1:And so it's been, you know, whereas through the summer we were like bam bam, bam, yeah, like really hitting yeah. And so sometimes you, just you know for those watching.
Speaker 2:It's funny because it feels like, like you and I, like we haven't really skipped a beat. No, no, no, no. Yeah, it is funny that we haven't sat down to like do the formalize the process in a while. Yeah, and yeah, just it's weird, but you know we always do our.
Speaker 1:We don't like declare it a pre-show, but we hang out. I have a coffee. I'll show you what 14 cameras I bought off of Facebook Marketplace.
Speaker 2:That's the metric. Like in the summer that would be like, hey, I'm thinking about buying this camera. I bought one camera what? Literally one? And you're like, oh my god, look at this camera I bought.
Speaker 1:And then now it's like I bought 13 new cameras, like like literally on Monday I went to a farm in the middle of nowhere, nebraska, after seeing a Facebook Marketplace posting and I came out of there with 18 cameras for 150 bucks.
Speaker 1:That's maybe another discussion we were talking about that in the pre-show, like how is what you're doing with buying all these, care of these cameras, an externalization of your character, of your neurosis, of my neurosis? And you know there is some stuff behind that, I think. But not to tease the audience with, you know some therapy, vague. So you know, I think whenever we do our pre-show we're like, look, let's revisit the millenote, but then let's also just talk about what we're going through. What, if we listen to what do we watch? You show me some photography books. You mentioned the Rick Rubin podcast. What is it called?
Speaker 2:again, Listen to Tetragrammaton. Yeah, great, great podcast.
Speaker 1:I've listened to numerous episodes. I went to Chicago for my grandma's 90th birthday. Listen to it on the drive out and on the way back Just great stuff. And then saw Rick Rubin in the Tom Petty documentary on Amazon Prime, you know. So he's been kind of a mainstay, obviously.
Speaker 2:I think that's for at least the last six months he's been a pretty, since we read his book.
Speaker 1:Yeah, right, so we have a little process that we go through. Look at our millenote talk about how we're feeling, what we're going through, whatever, and Alex just sitting in the chair goes I'm nervous, yeah, and I'm like, okay, what's that about? Yeah, and sort of I'm packing a little bit and and, and wanted to get into that a little bit more with you, because some of the things that we've seen with the podcast itself and we don't want this episode to be talking about the podcast, but that's part of the nervousness, which then, of course, goes into what we normally talk about, which is art, the work, life and creativity, all of that stuff. So you know, we've gained a few subscribers since we hit 50 a big milestone and we've and we've gained some.
Speaker 1:We've got some good comments from people that we haven't seen before and I might you know. You let me know if other things are factoring in. But you know, I just want you to kind of unpack the nervous thing a little bit.
Speaker 2:I mean, yeah, pretty much exactly how you laid it out. Right, we're sitting here and we we're talking about this idea of like truth and, yeah, like this idea of being truthful in your work. And you know, obviously started talking about the podcast and we just recently listened to this podcast episode and which I haven't listened to yet, right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you haven't listened to it, but basically it was a Rick Rubin interview and he was just talking about this idea. We I think we've both just been traveling a lot, so that's great, yeah, great. I mean, we're on the road for 20 hours, 25 hours last month, so it's a great podcast. But he talks about this concept of like every time you approach a piece of work, you should approach it like or piece of personal work, like not I mean not for a commercial cause. Yeah, exactly, you should approach it like it's an entry in your diary, and I love that because we've we've used that language on this show before and we've talked about that concept a little bit before. But it just makes perfect sense to me is like from like recording a moment in time with the work is for me, it works, because it's just so much easier to revisit that. Yeah, and not cringe.
Speaker 1:Yep.
Speaker 2:At a future date. It's just so much more, and I think part of that is just how honest it is, and so the point that he makes is that when you're doing a diary entry, there's no point in lying to yourself. You're doing it for yourself.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the diary, the one place you can tell the truth.
Speaker 2:The diary is the like. The entire thing is to tell the truth in the diary, right, and that's then you can reflect on that truth and you can grow from it. That's exactly what creating work is. You're putting down your perception of a series of events or of something that's happened or that might happen, or whatever. You're recording this and you're getting these thoughts down and then you're reflecting on it.
Speaker 2:There's no point in lying. The only person you're and I love that because I think that's how you should approach work and so we're sitting here talking about this and it's going through my head like so it's just all about honesty and I'm like, well, if I'm being honest right now, I don't give a shit about talking about this or that, these ideas on the millenote and I was like I'm feeling this pressure to sit down and make just record a podcast. I was very, I'm very nervous, like we had a conversation, the pre-show, and like this one felt a little more. There's just this anxiety there about like, oh, we're gonna have to just at some point turn the cameras on and like record on a show.
Speaker 2:And I don't mean like I think, yeah, it's been so long since we've done it and you know, with every episode that you release, suddenly the expectation raises a little bit and like, oh, you have to give some some kind of value or whatever.
Speaker 2:And so I'm sitting over here, just like you know, yeah, it's getting nervous, like crippling fear setting in, and it's really silly because you know it's not like we're one, it's not like there's a lot of people or yeah, but it's just one of those things.
Speaker 2:And then Matt and I started talking through that a little bit and I think we both faced the same thing at times with creating work that's not, you know, this show or whatever where you do it a little bit, just enough to kind of set the expectation and then suddenly there's an expectation and this is absolutely a pattern with me where all maybe it's a photo project and you'll start and you'll get like 20% into it, 25% into it, whatever. And you know it's a, not the proof of concepts there, it's going to work, you just have to keep going. But then you're like you're far enough into it too, where you're like I've been at this for a while, this, anything I do now, is just going to be uninteresting, right, like I need to evolve. And then you overthink it and then usually I just pull, pull away from it.
Speaker 2:I try to go find an outlet somewhere else or whatever. And then I, you know, I felt myself feeling that with this podcast and what we, you know what we ended up doing is okay, let's just run with that, We'll sit down and press record, and that's where we're at right now.
Speaker 1:And I'm curious what the nervousness to? Not that you know, you know exactly what the nature of it is or what the sort you know what, what things you're thinking about that inform the nervousness. It could just be general, like, oh, we've got to like make a good, we got to make good work today with this podcast, and that just the idea of that general umbrella thing makes me nervous. Versus, you know, is anything that's happening with the podcast or adding, you know, if you, you know like 15 subscribers in the last however many weeks, which is you know pretty good for where we are? Like, are any of the, are any of those things contributing to that nervous feeling? Or is it literally just oh shit, we got to, we got to like make some work today and tell the truth?
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I think it's just one. It's as soon as we hit 69 subscribers, we're going to have to stop making episodes forever, so that's unfortunate.
Speaker 1:Pause Subscribe. Is there a setting in YouTube where you can't?
Speaker 2:start kicking people out.
Speaker 1:Just to keep it at that glorious number.
Speaker 2:I think that I think that, no, I think that it's just, it's just expectation. You create a sense of expectation, expectations.
Speaker 2:They have of you, for us they have on. But I mean, it's also just expectations on myself, right? You know we have to watch the episode before we put it up, right? So we've seen the last 10 episodes, we've seen the, you know the next, the next one that'll come out, you know, in the sequence, and it's like we know what we've talked about and we've seen all the titles and like we'll scroll through the page and see what we've talked about.
Speaker 2:And you know, I, at a certain point, and we're getting there where I'm just I'm just being hypercritical and I've created a level of expectation and I think the anxiety is like, well, you have to live up to that expectation, right? And the irony of that anxiety is that to live up to that expectation, I think what we need to do is just be honest when we're having conversations and not avoid the things that you know that we're feeling. Yep, kind of. It's kind of like, you know, in a good relationship, where communication is, you know, it has to, has to be at the forefront, you just have to make sure that if you're feeling something, it might not be the most convenient to bring up or the most comfortable to bring up, but it's probably best in the long run. I think the same goes for creating work, or you know the crossroads right now with this. I wouldn't even say we're at a crossroads, we're just, it's business as usual, but it just we took so much time off of recording that.
Speaker 2:You know, you, if you, if you step away from something long enough, you give yourself time to think, and typically time to think is not good for action, right, exactly. So I think the issue that I'm facing right now is we just had too much time, especially, you know, the last couple of the last month or so has been time away from work. It's more interpersonal, it's, you know, less doing this, doing this, doing this. So you're literally just spending that time thinking about the things that matter, matter most, and this is one of those things for me. And so, yeah, it's just sitting there and thinking about that. Constantly, doubt starts to creep in about you know, I don't know, I don't know, and then that lack of action to counter the doubt, and what's the doubt of like whether we can continue to make good work.
Speaker 1:Are we going to?
Speaker 2:run out of things to talk about. Is that going to? You know it is. It's getting back to that initial Rick Rubin thing of like the diary. It's like we got to remember that we're not writing this for anybody else. Yeah, we're writing this for us and that's the attitude that's going to get us. You know, if we do 50 episodes and we just continue to write it for us, who gives a shit? Yeah, if you know, anybody is thinking like, oh, this one wasn't very useful, right, it's like if, at the end of these episodes, we're feeling like and we joke, it's like therapy.
Speaker 2:At the end of these episodes, we're feeling like we, you know, moved forward a little bit, it's a success for us and we're choosing to record it, we're choosing to put it out there. So we're opening ourselves up to that scrutiny and we're giving the. We're opening the idea, opening the ideas up, because nobody owns ideas, you know it. Just, they are. So, yeah, I'm happy to put those out there. But at the end of the day, like us sitting here in this, this process, I got to remember like this is just for us. That was the whole reason we started in the first place. And if I start, you know bringing in these other expectations, then it's just going to hurt the quality of you know the benefit that we get from it and I think you can apply that same principle or that same way of thinking to creating work, whether it be you know a photography project, a film, a script. You know a business, whatever it is. You can apply that same way of thinking maybe not as much with the business, but you know definitely personal projects.
Speaker 1:You can apply that like this is for me, this isn't for anybody else, but other people are invited to partake in it Right and I think my way of wording that is, I wanted to make participate in making the podcast that I want to hear, like what's the podcast that I would gravitate toward? That would help me. We talked about all of Rick Rubin's stuff. It feels like we've I found someone who speaks and talks about this in a way that I go, yes, like that's how I want to do it or that's how I have done it, or that's how I've thought about doing it, but this has gotten the way, that's gotten the way.
Speaker 1:And then his guests. Of course, some of them, you know, not all of them are are, you know, aligned with what we do or our approach, or whatever. But, yeah, that's that's the thing. This, this is for us. But I sat there and went. I, you know, I want to help, I want to be part of a podcast. That would be something I would have at the top of my listen list when a new episode came out, because and maybe.
Speaker 1:I haven't searched hard enough, but I just haven't found that content that is talking about the things that we're talking about, and that doesn't mean that there's not similar stuff out there again.
Speaker 2:It's just I think it's, it's just the. You know, the way that we, the way that we approach it is true to how we're feeling. At least this has been the case so far. The way that we approach it is true to how we're feeling, yeah, yeah, yeah, and it's like-.
Speaker 1:Well, it's very diarious. I mean I feel like I'm writing an entry in my diary because, other than like protecting some personal information or not saying what my address is like, I'm not holding back on how I feel about what I'm doing or what I'm going through.
Speaker 2:Well, and I think that's like you know. I don't mind. Obviously you want to keep some of the personal, but a lot of the reason that people like to withhold things it's either like insecurity or ego. It's like I'm a big believer in just like open source as much as you can you know, like ideas are all ideas should be open source.
Speaker 2:Like processes, for the most part, should be open source. Like it's just I mean, it's like we're all playing the same game, or whatever it's like. Why not, you know, put it all out there, see who has the most creative approach to whatever is being done. And you know, I think with the podcast it's interesting because, yeah, we're just putting ideas and how we're feeling at the moment out there and it might seem a little bit, I don't know, just self-indulgent. Yeah well, we've talked about that.
Speaker 1:Is this just masturbatory? Is it just us?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Like subjecting people to our personal therapy session.
Speaker 2:I guess the answer to that, though, is like if they're not enjoying it, they can just hop off go somewhere else, like that's fine, there's plenty of podcasts that have different formats.
Speaker 2:But yeah, it's just like you know, I think, getting down and thinking about these ideas and talking through them and, by way of doing that, coming up with alternate ways to express them or alternate pathways of doing something that's been valuable to me and that's hopefully, you know, if it's, there's the old saying where, like it's valuable to you, it's probably valuable to somebody else, because we're all living a similar experience.
Speaker 1:So I think so much of my life with my close friends, whether it's you, cody, my buddy Nick, and LA, my buddies, micah, those relationships, the foundation, is that diary approach to our interactions. You know it's not like the first time. You know we hang out. It's like all right, what are you working?
Speaker 2:What are you working through, alex? What are you working through Matthew?
Speaker 1:But it bubbles up. You know we don't, like you know, make it a point necessarily to talk about our shit, our baggage, like what we're going through I know I was alluding to all this camera stuff that I'm doing like certainly is indicative of something that's going on with me. That doesn't necessarily mean turmoil or drama or my marriage is falling apart or you know anything like that, but it is an externalization of something internal, that's going on and so I sit there and go.
Speaker 1:you're feeling nervous. If we just pushed forward with this podcast without addressing that, you would talk about stuff, but there would be externalizations of that underlying nervousness right. You might fidget with something, you might drink extra water. You might not really sound like you're engaged in the topic, because you're really working on something else underneath it all, and so why not just take that on?
Speaker 2:full steam.
Speaker 1:But then of course we're gonna relate it to the work, because the work is one of the big ingredients in what's causing it. So let me ask you real quick are you still nervous right now?
Speaker 2:I mean, I wouldn't say I'm like nervous, but I mean it's definitely. I think you said this this sums it up. You said you're working on something else. I'm working on it. I'm still figuring out how I feel about it. Yeah, and this is always, especially this time of year it's cold, it's dreary. The sun hasn't really been out today. No, no. I was gonna wake up and go work out this morning.
Speaker 1:I didn't because I was, yeah, but I was up late last night and regretted that, and then.
Speaker 2:So I'm just, I'm in a weird state, I am yeah. And it's part of it is the time of year and the season, and part of it is just like yeah, I don't wanna. Just I wanna make sure that we kinda stay on topic. Yeah, I mean, it's just I'm working through it.
Speaker 2:And I think you were the thing is is like we're already in it. This is the episode, yeah, and yeah, it's just. I think it's one of those things where time is the only like. Sometimes you just get on things where you're working through something and you just have to work through it and you can either. You said at the beginning like okay, we gotta put on our performance, what I like, it's time to jump into podcast mode, and let's get control of this thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I wanna avoid ever like you know, some people say this in a positive like, oh, I can just turn it on. Yeah, yeah, yeah and it's. You know, I don't like being the person that can turn it on per se. Like, sometimes, yeah, you gotta just like put on a brave face and go out there and do whatever needs to be done, but at the same time, like you know, I think sometimes you just gotta be like authentic to the human experience of what's happening and how that's affecting what you're working on. And, if you know, things aren't just smooth sailing at all times for all people. Some people they are and some people they probably are less.
Speaker 2:But no, I mean, I just especially, though, this nervousness and this like, okay, we're a little bit in. We're 10 episodes done, more than that recorded, and we're starting to get a little bit of traction not like crazy traction or anything, but yeah, there is an expectation now and expectations are just like, even if they're external or internal or a combination of both, they just I've never been good at dealing with expectations in the sense of they just they're kind of crippling to me. I mean, we you know the same thing with the channel that my other channel. It's like I haven't made a video in a while, and you know, I mean you obviously, you know that like there was one that was pretty close to going up and something happened. But you know, at the end of the day that's kind of just an excuse At the biggest part of it is part of it is I just don't you know, I'm not interested. I set an expectation and I'm not interested in fulfilling that expectation anymore.
Speaker 2:Ted snow brother hi, you know, I set that expectation of like, oh, I'm making these essay videos and I'm doing this. And then it's like I was making those because I was like, man, this is what I want to talk about, and whatever. And then I found that, okay, there's other people talking about these and you know they're doing a fine job, and that's scratching that itch for me and I'm like I don't really want to talk about this. So then I can either go and make more, just kind of like autopilot, which maybe would have been the better move but or I, you know, my alternative was just like oh, just never make videos.
Speaker 1:I'm just done. I'm done Walking away.
Speaker 2:You know cause. I set that expectation, though, and then that expectation didn't interest me anymore, so I think that's what I'm interested right now is like where does this podcast go? Like, what does this look like five months from now? Once we've navigated through that cause, you know, a new wave of energy is going to hit both of us in April. Yep, I would say, yeah, spring.
Speaker 1:Just the season yeah.
Speaker 2:A new way of energy we're gonna out take pictures more.
Speaker 2:We're trying to, you know, get together with some people in town and like work on some projects right now, like, if those succeed, there's going to be a new wave of energy that comes with that. There's going to be creative energy that we're not feeling right now. And so, you know, I want all of that to channel into what we're talking about, because, yeah, this is a diary entry. You know, this is something that we can look back on and we can watch the clips, and I want to be true to that, but at the same time, I don't want to, like, stop making podcasts, I mean so it's because I'm feeling a little hesitant, because that's what I have done in the past on certain things is, I've just dropped it.
Speaker 2:Do you think you've dropped?
Speaker 1:it because I mean, I don't know if it's the case each time, but you've mentioned in our conversations about this podcast especially that you know you feel really good about the work that we're doing. Yeah, like you are, you know, happy with what, how it's going, and I don't need just like metrics and subscribers and all that. But, like you know, we watch back the podcast when we edit it and put it together and all that and you're not like cringing or you know having whatever right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, exactly Right.
Speaker 1:And I don't know how used used to that feeling either you are, we are, I am, and what role does you know being proud of your work play in sabotaging it or just choosing, like, well, gosh now, like expectations are getting beyond what I initially had, which was we were just going to sit down and talk about this. There was sort of low stakes, you know there, you know whatever like.
Speaker 2:So it's interesting because I think, like what, what you were just getting at there is like almost a side effect of being true and honest to the moment is that we're humans and our what we're interested in is going to change.
Speaker 1:Oh, buddy, don't, I know it.
Speaker 2:What we do with our you know what I mean just everything, the energy that is around us, is going to change. The circumstances are going to change. All of that is in a constant state of change. And by being so true to the moment when you're putting something together, maybe and I'm not sure if this is true, this is just something I'm just kind of thinking about, but maybe that sabotage is like. You know, we've built this thing and it was 10 episodes on a particular feeling. Yeah, both of us had a particular stage of energy that we were in at that point, and now we took a little time away and we went from like kind of moving away from that to like a brand new mode of existence, in a way, where it's like the things were interested and have shifted and then reshifted. It's like we're completely like a full sea change away from that original.
Speaker 1:And we've kind of I don't want to say solved, but we've sort of like figured out some stuff through the 10 episodes, right, like you kind of like.
Speaker 2:I kind of feel like I've got a better understanding of art and commerce. I've got a better understanding of you know this isn't to say we've like figured out art and commerce, but you're just not in as much turmoil, or?
Speaker 1:you're right, you figure out a way to exist with it. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I mean I feel like a lot of my like just modality as a human has evolved over the last six months, yeah, and I think that's part of it is like when you create something and then you look at it and you build your expectations off of that, then you're like I'm not really interested in that anymore. Yeah, like, obviously we're still interested in creating work. Obviously we're still interested in, like, the conflicts of art and commerce and things like that. But you know, there are certain things that we feel really strongly about at one point in time and then over time that changes and that's, you know, that to me, is always the whole mark of great work is that you can go back and smile at it and take something away from it. Not that you're taking away answers, but you're taking something away from it even after time has passed and you've moved through zones.
Speaker 2:And I'm not saying that that isn't how I feel when I go back and I watch this episode, but it is just like now you know we've done this. Now we're staring into this great wilderness, yeah, and we're like where do we go next? Right, and I think that's part of the fear and that's part of my fear on a lot of projects and you know it's got to be something that I'm interested in, Yep, or else, yeah, like it's like I'm not interested in making video essays about something, I'm just not going to do it. Yeah, like I've got so many things buying from my time.
Speaker 2:It's like I'm not going to sit and do something a quarter of a way, because I've built an expectation for myself? I think yeah.
Speaker 1:Because what I was curious was do you ever find yourself like oh, I think, I think I see a YouTube video there or I see a photo project there, yeah, and then you do something to talk yourself out of it? Because, well, future Alex is going to think this is bullshit or there's six other people already kind of did a video on this photographer.
Speaker 2:I think I get super excited but like, like, with the videos and stuff, like all of the videos I made, I did the essay on Sawlider, then I did the Eggleson thing and then it was like more documentary, yeah, and that was the progression and I was like, okay, I did this this way. And then I saw it this way and I was like, okay, this was cool. But now I'm just like like the next version that I saw in my head was like I want to go out and just like create a documentary, yeah, Like actually, you know, not just grab clips, yeah, and I think that's what I've been working on Like that's where I want to do, that's the next evolution of that work, and so, yeah, I'm not interested at all in like digging through archives of somebody who you know 50,000 other people have made a video about.
Speaker 2:I want to go find somebody and just like learn about that and learn about their. You know, I want something more obscure. There's this documentary that I watched last year and then I rewatched it a couple of times and it's I think it's Encounters at the End of the World or Encounters at the End of the Earth, it's. Werner Herzog.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:And it's. I think it was like 2007, 2008 or something, but he went to Alaska.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:It's really bizarre documentary and he's just like talking to these just outcast people who have gone and like found this solitude in Alaska living and all of their idiosyncrasies are just accepted in this like bizarre cold daylight for three months straight place and it's just so beautiful and I'm like, oh, I mean it's.
Speaker 2:I thought it was just an unbelievable documentary and I'm like and I'm sure you know it's fine Like it is the greatest thing ever. I'm sure plenty of people will like it, plenty of people won't, but it really moved me, yeah. And then I watched this Louis Moll documentary in November and he went to like where was it? It was, but basically he went to this farm town at the beginning of the Reagan presidency and he explored, like you just met all these people and then, like you had trickle down and like the rise of industry and you take away these regulations and then that really like hammered these, like farmers yeah Right, I mean, we've heard about it here. Yeah, you work on any ag jobs. All you hear about is how, like, yeah, nobody can make any money unless they're the biggest, the big.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But he just followed these people and he just input himself in this, inserted himself into this community. And Louis Moll is, you know, french, he's going to this like rural American, you know town, and it moved me so much I'm like that's what I want to do, yeah. And then I mean, yeah, just been watching some of these, like you know, some of the like channel five documentaries that I've sent you, the little videos or whatever, not necessarily like documentary in the sense, but just super interesting, just talking to people, and I'm like that's the itch I want to scratch, that's what I'm interested in. I just went way off the rails.
Speaker 1:No, this is great, but you know that's what I want.
Speaker 2:Like that's the itch that is sitting there and it's saying, hey, you're not allowed to focus on anything else. Like, focus on this. And you know I haven't been able to put time into anything else, but I haven't. At the same time, I've found that thing that's like, yeah, this is what you're going to explore. Like, you know you can't it's just go out and pick something, sure, but it needs to. There needs to be. There will be something that grabs me and I'm like, oh, I've got to dive deeper. And then you start unpeeling the layers.
Speaker 2:But there hasn't been yet. But yeah, I mean that's a long way of saying my interest went away from making these like video essays, right, and it's really hard to just sit down and be like I'm going to make it just for the YouTube subscribers. Because of what's I'm I neurotically check the YouTube subscribers, like once every couple of days.
Speaker 1:I'm like, oh what is, and a common thing we've talked about is doing what's expected of you versus what?
Speaker 1:is what is you know. Your truth is what's true to you. You know, part of my early screenwriting was yeah, I'm going to harvest these very personal things and experiences I have, but I'm ultimately going to write these stories with an eye on commercial viability and what kind of commerce I can drum up by taking something that's really personal to me and putting it into some silos of the midpoint crisis and the Save the Cat, you know paradigm.
Speaker 2:So I make sure that when, when it's the exciting incident.
Speaker 1:Yeah, when a producer reaches it after it goes out that they're not going. Oh well, you know, this is interesting and whatever, but this is like some art movie, not something I can sell to customers.
Speaker 2:Well, that's been kicking me a lot lately too is, like you know, there's a couple of projects that I want to move forward on, and I don't know if this is this might just be ego talking or I don't know what this is but you know, we've been doing this together for a long time and, like both of us have been, you know, writing things and doing things for a long time and I think we're pretty self-reflective about the process and things like that. Yeah, and yeah, I've. You know, I've gone back and I've looked at some of these projects that I've written or whatever, and everything I've written in the past, like before, I'd say, the last couple of years. You know, definitely like I'd write something, I'd be excited about it and then I'd get feedback on it and, like some of it is just not good, absolutely. Like that's just a but you know, first of all, most things are just not good at first.
Speaker 2:They require Most things. We make Incubation. Yeah, yeah, most everything right. Yeah, you know, nobody. The idea of the genius who steps down and just immediately, just grabs everything they touch is just that's a narrative, that's an illusion. Yeah, it's pure propaganda. Yeah, this, but you know, I would ask for feedback on these things and then the you know you get feedback from people or from whatever, and it's like they're just repeating what some hack professor told them, that they are like some YouTube video or whatever.
Speaker 1:It usually goes through a set of rules.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they, because that's the easiest thing to learn and it's the thing that we can point to.
Speaker 2:Exactly, and I'm like I just want to dial in on what's interesting to me and like why is it interesting? Maybe I can answer that, maybe I can, but if it's interesting, it needs to go into the piece, yep, and, like you know, people can critique it or whatever, but when I'm writing the piece, I'm writing the diary entry. That's right and I need to make that. You know true, and you know, yeah, you can just edit something to death.
Speaker 2:Mm-hmm and now if I read something and I don't think it's interesting for a particular reason, I'm might tell the person I don't think this is very interesting. Yeah, but that's not like an attack on their credibility or whatever. It's just I don't think it's interesting right.
Speaker 1:That's not saying Change this, that's me saying I don't, I don't think it's interesting.
Speaker 2:Yeah, maybe you should reexamine and make sure you think it's interesting, right, and if you think it's interesting and I don't think it's interesting, your say, yeah, outweighs my say. But if you reread it and don't think it's interesting, maybe you could consider looking somewhere else. And I think, like that's that feedback and so that's. You know, that's what I'm just with the work that you know, like I said I was, I've been working through a couple of like Short stories that I wrote and trying to turn them into like a more filmic thing, and We'll we'll talk more about that the next couple of weeks, I'm sure. But it's looking at like, what is interesting about this and like, if this is interesting to you, then like, who gives a shit if it, if it fits perfectly into some textbook framework, because it's, like you know, the perspective is is, why are you making this? Yeah, and if the answer is not just because of some compulsion to make this, this thing, then that's Probably the wrong answer, you know. So I don't know. I feel like I'm just rambling on this?
Speaker 1:No, you're not. We need to get into something. No, I think. I think that I think this is great. This is all. This is all I'm going to get into this.
Speaker 2:Because of theeman, I feel like I'm a little bit Connected back to this idea of telling the truth, that we're lying, and I think it manifests in different places in different ways, and you know, when I examine the, all the stuff I've done my entire life Well, so you talk about acting like you felt like I thought that was interesting, that was an interesting, but I would argue, even though the best actors are Telling the truth, yeah, they're themselves right like, yeah, like, like I don't know what's something I've watched recently Like Jimmy Stewart plays the same character.
Speaker 2:Yeah in every movie. Yeah, but he's one of the best actors, all right, we've ever had. Yeah, and you know, jimmy Stewart is just Jimmy Stewart, but like he's so Honest with the material right in most, most cases, we watched. It's a wonderful life. Yeah, as did most American. You didn't watch it. I did not watch it. I know I, we yeah. Yeah, so we watched that. I don't know why that was top of mind, but yeah it's so good, I think I was afraid to watch it.
Speaker 1:I don't know, I don't know I.
Speaker 2:I'll tell you the other.
Speaker 1:And I'm not we're not gonna go down the this place, but I've just been in like leading up to taking Christmas break and all that just was like vibrating with anxiety and Just stuff like trying to let go of work brain to transition into Christmas break brain. It was incredibly difficult this year.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we can talk about that another time, but you know, but, but I, you know, I always try to sit there and go like you know, don't, don't lie to yourself about what you're going through. You know being this, if you're compelled to go in this direction with buying cameras or doing this, you know within reasoned, you know, you know just kind of see this through, like you need to see these things through to kind of know whether or not you want to go farther with it or you want to. You know, cap it off and call it good, and I think that's kind of what you're doing, right. You're not gonna lie to yourself, and just You're not gonna lie to yourself and do what's expected of you and go throw out the content that's expected of you on your channel, and I think it's actually you're doing yourself a good service If that's your truth.
Speaker 1:Is like when I have the video that I see in my mind that I want to make for this channel, I will make it, but until I feel that way, I'm not going to, especially if You're not feeling that but then talking yourself out of it, yeah, because, well, future Alex might not like it, or this is too weird for my channel to go in that direction or Whatever it is right. So to me, as long as you're not lying about why you're not making a video, I Think I actually commend you for being in that state, because I think a lot of people that would have invested that much work Into it and gotten to where you are, where you are monetized and all that they would let Bullshit start.
Speaker 2:Make stuff. That's bullshit. That's where the you know. I think that's part of where the that anxiety sets in those like. There's always this I told I was talking to Audrey about this the other day where it's like some people are wired where they have to have a Maybe most people, if we're being honest. It gets into the lottery discussions that we had about people buying lottery tickets, but Whether it's like me checking an investment account or whether it's me checking YouTube subscribers, it's like this little thing on the horizon.
Speaker 2:That's like you know, maybe you're you know the, you know the things that you're just miserable about in life. Yeah, right now, don't have like. There's just this slip like look at this, though, like Anything could happen here and you, you know you could just be perfectly set. Yeah, so it's like keeping this just like. It sounds so depressing, but this like light at the end of the tunnel, while you're just in this tunnel constantly and you know, by not feeding into it, it's almost like you're letting that fire. You know that that fear is like a manual. I put all this work into it. Yeah, give us this light at the end of the tunnel. It's like, yeah, but maybe that's not the right light, bad metaphor, but you know, tunnels are straight.
Speaker 1:There's only one way but I think, but I think I, I, you know, I really identify with, with, with this thought, especially the diary thought is now it just kind of dawned on me this morning. I, you know, felt I'm sort of in like this state of transitioning back into Making videos on my main channel final cut, pro filmmaking, all that channel and there's a little bit of pressure, like it's the first of the year.
Speaker 1:You haven't had a video in three or four weeks. You're back from break. Yes, you have some other stuff going with this podcast and then my photography work and that channel and all that. But you know you've got an audience. There's, you know, getting close to 30,000 subs. You know they're. You know Maybe some of them are ready for some final cut tutorials or some live stream about what's going on with final cut and Editing and all that stuff.
Speaker 2:It's funny. It's funny Like this is the first time that I've heard you talk about the final cut channel and I've just thought like, oh, that's Matt's like corporatey commercial, yeah, like I don't my job, yeah, but it's funny how, like like that was the main thing at the beginning, yeah, and now it's like I've almost separated that half of you, yeah, and like that's yeah, yeah, I don't know why.
Speaker 1:That is Observation that I just had in the morning because of this, I mean, we're spending so much time in this world in our lives. Because for a while, you know, when we came together, we talked about YouTube in general and it was always related back to, you know, my final cut and filmmaking channel, apple Tech and all that stuff. And now this has crept up, you know, as I have pursued photography more and gone out and done stuff and made work and made a separate channel, like, yeah, you're gonna start seeing that version of me or that part, that dominant part of what's going on in my life. Now the thing is, with that channel, I still feel, when I make a video, you know, a true desire to make that video. Like if I, if I was sitting there going, got all these subscribers, I got revenue, I've got to do this, I got to do what's expected of me.
Speaker 1:Like I need to blah, blah blah. I don't really want to do this.
Speaker 1:But there's definitely been times where I'm like I don't really want a live stream today, so this Friday, so I'm just not going to and there's not a lot going on. There's not a lot I want to talk about. It's just kind of business as usual. So, you know, I am in that that state of until I like, have something I want to say or want to show people or want to teach them or whatever. I'm not gonna just make a video. To make a video and I have so many ideas for videos that I'm excited. You know, I just I just have a stockpile that is accessible, like our millenote, and I can go. Oh, yeah, that's right, I thought about that two months ago.
Speaker 1:That's totally cool. I want to do it. So I'm always very grateful of that and I never feel like it's work or bullshit or I'm well, that's like an honest representation of like that part of year.
Speaker 2:You know, like, like I said, we can have like multiple interests, that Absolutely, and that is just absolutely. Yeah, it's like me going off on a tangent last year we're just buying a bunch of like darkroom equipment.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like that's something that's super interesting, yep, and yeah, you can yeah, just flashed in my head, but willem verbie doing a car channel.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, this car, yeah, it's going crazy.
Speaker 1:He does it great. I love his videos on on the car stuff and I really like car stuff and you know it's maybe in 10 years buying old Volvos, so so, so, going back to the diary thing, so this morning I'm like I need to reach out to my audience. I haven't gone on my discord server, I've been kind of MIA and I and like that's okay.
Speaker 2:I was on break with my family. I don't need. I feel like I go in my a like once a month and everybody just loses their mind and I'm like it's still alive like it's been a couple of weeks.
Speaker 1:So you know, I just want to update the community and just kind of let him know what's going on. So I kind of just wrote this diary entry, honestly, when I think about it, and I just kind of laid out like hey, just an update with what's going on. You know, here's what I have on my plate I've got taxes, I've got a get together.
Speaker 1:I've got, you know, this whole camera thing that I'm pursuing to try to create a foundation for this, you know Kind of an e-commerce thing through YouTube channel, blah, blah, blah, and I kind of just laid it all out in this huge community post on my channel Thing and, you know, gave you know some encouraging comments and all that it wasn't like, oh, I gotta do all the stuff. It was just like, hey, this is what's going on.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And so I'm, you know, being truthful to myself by saying you know what this stuffs. This stuffs my priority right now. I need to like clear the decks of this other stuff before I can be sort of open and free again to start channeling the final cut stuff and creating the content there that you know I want to be making.
Speaker 2:So Well, so this? This raises a question with me and I hit. I don't want to cut you off.
Speaker 1:No, you're good.
Speaker 2:Do you think it's better to manage expectations or to ignore expectations? Because I I think I was a pro, I, you know my approach is kind of like oh, expectations, expectations are not a bad thing, you know, especially internal, like expectations that you have of yourself, like it's not a bad thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But you know, you making this diary entries, community posts, that's effectively you're managing a hundred percent expectations.
Speaker 1:And I am an over communicator. Yeah, I don't do well with brevity. Yeah, I did edit my brain dump, so I did do some like cleaned it up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I cleaned it up and tightened it up.
Speaker 1:I'm like I don't need to say all that Because I just flow. It's a street yeah, yeah whatever, and I, you know, didn't just send it. I, you know double-checked it, kind of reworked it a little bit, made sure you know it's long as shit and I'm like this is what I have to say I'm not considering going. Well, a YouTube community post really shouldn't be more than 2000. Yeah, yeah, yeah, care yeah yeah, and when you said managing expectations, the first thing I thought of is my kids.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:My wife. One of the biggest things I've learned about For my wife and I, effective parenting with our kids is managing expectations and I am doing it constantly. Yeah all right kids. So this is what it's gonna look like when we get to the store. We're gonna do this. We're gonna do this when this yeah da da, da, da da da. Like the amount of ease I have in doing things with my kids and living our daily lives with managing our expectations. Is is doing. That has Reduced friction immensely.
Speaker 1:Yeah, this was not like day one. We're like. We read the book. We know you need to manage expectations.
Speaker 2:So let's start doing this.
Speaker 1:I Learned a lot of tons of relationship conflict. I just learned well, if I kind of tell someone what's coming down the pike, they are not going to be as as up in arms when that Thing happens, whether it's a good thing or a bad thing, whatever, and so I just really saw the effectiveness of it the results that it got.
Speaker 1:And I Really try to do that with you know the community that I've developed on YouTube to try to let people know like, hey, this is what's going on. You know, I might not share every last detail of whether it's personal or whatever, but if I know I'm gonna go on a clip where there's not gonna be a new video for a couple weeks, or I'm gonna be a little absent on social media, whatever, you know I'll, I'll let people know yeah, see, and I think that's almost an area that I could use work in, because I mean I don't know why, but I do have like a combative approach to expectations.
Speaker 2:I could see that, like I'm a little bit more Like you. You told me a couple of years ago where, like you, would text me yeah and you like I wouldn't. I mean I'm notoriously, yeah, notoriously terrible it, you know, right it like responding in a town we manner responding in a timely manner.
Speaker 2:And I mean I you know it's, it's just all over the place, but like in my head it's like Like this super negative. Just like no, fuck you, that's my time. Yeah. Like not, not to you, no, no, but just like no, that's my time. Like you know how dare you right you know, come in and like, take my time, like I don't know. It's just this very, there's just this consciousness of it, I think, and I don't know why that is, but like.
Speaker 1:I think there's. There's an intensity with you of focus and there's an intensity of Whatever you're doing, working on, thinking about whether it's a work thing or the work. Yeah, I think that outside Stuff that creates an obligation, like gives you work, like and I've got a reply to this like you, just like you just put something on my play.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, you just took away my yeah.
Speaker 1:It blipped my focus or it completely ripped me out, or whatever. Whatever, and and for you very frustrated.
Speaker 2:I mean that's just a negative Association that I've built over time, but it's very frustrating to be yep, it's. I mean it's like it's borderline offensive.
Speaker 1:It's the scene. It's goofy.
Speaker 2:It's goofy right and I mean I don't want to be like Jack where I'm like murder.
Speaker 2:You think see me doing what you know like you know, it's just it is borderline offensive and I expectations it's. It expectation is the embodiment of that. Yep, right, it is. I Expect this and like I, I'm like in my head, part of it's just like I have expectations for myself and like those are the only expectations that matter. And it's a very selfish and Potentially toxic way to, yeah, to be like I'm and I'm the first one to admit that and look, I, this probably something I need to work out with like a therapist or something, but I, um, I worked it out through failed relationships.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, see, and like that it's never really saying like you're going to have that way.
Speaker 2:That's never been a problem, and because I think what you, what you get to, is like I mean, you just said it, you just pegged me. It's like whenever, whatever I'm doing, whether that be watching a movie with Audrey or eating dinner or having a conversation with you, I had, yeah, no, I'm not. I'm not multitasking. I mean I think you can attack Like we've. You know, we've spent hundreds of hours, probably a thousand plus hours, talking in conversation and it's like I, you know, if I get pulled on like a phone call, I'm just like, yeah, it breaks my brain. I'm just like I don't know what to like. I love to just be plugged like singular.
Speaker 1:And I've seen you get fired up about something, you know a conversation that's focused and you know engaging, and then an idea comes up of something and I've seen the level of emotion and focus that you develop and so I that's why I could I, I could sort of see that if someone there's an intrusion on that, whether it's a knock at the door, a phone call, a text message, an email, whatever, like you just nuked my experience of this focus of this thing, of this dance, of this romance, of this whatever, like you know and I think that you know, like all things, all of our personal personality traits they're a double-edged sword.
Speaker 1:It's a blessing and a curse, yeah, and we just have to deploy self-awareness and go how is this my super power and how is it something that is my Achilles heel? And how do I try to? Navigate that Walk the line yeah, I think I'm going to leave scorched earth in my wake that my ego, or my focus, my loyalty to that thing is so great that I will, just you know, leave scorched earth in my wake. Do you think? Because I did.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Do you think it's?
Speaker 1:yeah, that's what I was going to ask, but it was.
Speaker 2:you know, for me it was do you mind like going into it?
Speaker 1:No, I mean it's got, it's hard to it's, it's um.
Speaker 2:Because I think you and I have similar tendencies and like the control aspect, and it's I mean.
Speaker 1:I think, especially when it comes to relationships, for some of mine, especially some of the two relationships in particular, I feel like it was just like Studio sessions. I know I'm right. Yeah, I'm not like in an argument, sort of like every decision I make, you should trust me that it's the right decision, yeah, whether I do this thing that hurt your feelings, yeah, or did that thing, I wanted to do it and my intentions are good. My intention was perfect, and it's it's your shit that you're upset about it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, not me. Yeah, oh, and I mean I'm very much that way too. Where it's like I am right, and it is learning that dance with ideas, yeah, where it's like you might be right and somebody else is also completely right and it's this.
Speaker 2:The expression that got me was when someone said I can't remember if it was in a movie or whatever, but they said they paved the road to hell with good intentions, yeah, yeah, well, no, I mean that's a great, because I heard something similar like um, maybe I was reading, I forget where it was, I forget the source, but essentially, yeah, it was like everybody who's done something atrocious throughout history probably had good intentions they were the hero of their own story.
Speaker 2:Absolutely Trust me and no, it's yeah. So you get that controlling and dominant personality that, like I, have to insert, and I think learning to deal with that leads to better work.
Speaker 1:And it being a golden afternoon, and I remember having the familiar conviction that life was beginning over again with the summer and summer.