This discussion explores how consistent effort in creative projects can yield substantial outcomes, drawing parallels to Warren Buffett's wealth-building investment methods. It underlines the significance of simplicity and regularity in reaching long-term objectives.
The conversation moves into the hurdles of procrastination and self-sabotage, recognizing that grand ideas often act as diversions from necessary hard work. It delves into the notion that realistic goals and a down-to-earth mindset can pave the way to overcoming these challenges.
Further, the dialogue moves to defining success, the interplay between fear and comfort, and the crucial aspect of aligning with one's genuine self. Sharing experiences of transitioning from freelancing to more structured roles, like in tech support, it reflects on how engaging in meaningful work can profoundly enrich life, highlighting the unique contributions each individual has to offer. - Ai
If you enjoyed this episode, please consider giving us a rating and/or a review. We read and appreciate all of them. Thanks for listening, and we'll see you in the next episode.
Links To Everything:
Video Version of The Podcast: https://geni.us/StudioSessionsYT
Matt’s YouTube Channel: https://geni.us/MatthewOBrienYT
Matt’s 2nd Channel: https://geni.us/PhotoVideosYT
Alex’s YouTube Channel: https://geni.us/AlexCarterYT
Matt’s Instagram: https://geni.us/MatthewIG
Alex’s Instagram: https://geni.us/AlexIG
This discussion explores how consistent effort in creative projects can yield substantial outcomes, drawing parallels to Warren Buffett's wealth-building investment methods. It underlines the significance of simplicity and regularity in reaching long-term objectives.
The conversation moves into the hurdles of procrastination and self-sabotage, recognizing that grand ideas often act as diversions from necessary hard work. It delves into the notion that realistic goals and a down-to-earth mindset can pave the way to overcoming these challenges.
Further, the dialogue moves to defining success, the interplay between fear and comfort, and the crucial aspect of aligning with one's genuine self. Sharing experiences of transitioning from freelancing to more structured roles, like in tech support, it reflects on how engaging in meaningful work can profoundly enrich life, highlighting the unique contributions each individual has to offer. - Ai
If you enjoyed this episode, please consider giving us a rating and/or a review. We read and appreciate all of them. Thanks for listening, and we'll see you in the next episode.
Links To Everything:
Video Version of The Podcast: https://geni.us/StudioSessionsYT
Matt’s YouTube Channel: https://geni.us/MatthewOBrienYT
Matt’s 2nd Channel: https://geni.us/PhotoVideosYT
Alex’s YouTube Channel: https://geni.us/AlexCarterYT
Matt’s Instagram: https://geni.us/MatthewIG
Alex’s Instagram: https://geni.us/AlexIG
It had been a golden afternoon and I remember having the familiar conviction that life was beginning over again with the summits. You need to take the advice that you're giving about finance and you need to apply it to work. Every day that goes by that you don't make work for yourself, even if, ultimately, you want to give it. You know share it with an audience is the same thing that you would say to somebody who's not saving money. They are losing out on all this time with more big picture.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So every day that goes by you don't do this, it's less time that you have to have a chance to make a connection.
Speaker 2:It's the impulse buy yeah. So every day that goes by you don't do this, it's less time that you have to have a chance to make a connection.
Speaker 2:It's the impulse buy, it's the well, this thing costs a hundred dollars. I'm not going to save the a hundred dollars this week and it, rather than just being like I guess, patience, but also just like you know, instead of buying that, invest yeah that into you know well and just an also just an acceptance, that what we're doing with this podcast is going to take a long time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we don't have like built in well and there is no like yeah, there is no, I think we're not. You know it. You said it's going to take a long time, but that almost implies that there is. It's going to take a long time to get to this point.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I think what was what is so refreshing about our mindset with this is like we came into it being like we don't. There's no point. That's exactly right, it's just it's like a monastic just return and do it for the sake of doing it. Right, just do it for the practice.
Speaker 1:Yeah, let's take what we're already doing and make something out of it. What does this look like?
Speaker 2:when we're doing this 10 years from now? Yeah, and we've been doing it for like, what does that look like? Let's find out. The only way you can do it is to commit, like like I remember the first time I went for a run, you know, I wasn't necessarily thinking what is this going to look like, you know, 20 years from now when I'm running? Right, you know, but it, it, as time goes on and you continue, you go for more and more runs and you, your relationship to it changes and you learn things that you have brilliant insights from the mundane, yes, and it's like, wow, there's no other way I would have gotten to that. That wasn't an intellectual insight, that was an insight as a byproduct of repetition. Yeah, almost Really quickly. I just want to.
Speaker 2:We're not bought and paid for we are For those who said we were bought and paid for. We Really quickly, I just want to. We're not bought and paid for. We are For those who said we were bought and paid for.
Speaker 1:We're equal opportunities.
Speaker 2:We're equal opportunities.
Speaker 1:Sparkling water, sparkling water consumption Just happened to be at the coffee shop and I had the source was telling me while I was standing in line Alex is out of Topo Chico. Get that, san Pellegrino.
Speaker 2:We are in fact out of topo chico I knew it.
Speaker 1:We're working on it. We're working on getting that. Are we recording audio, alex? We are. We are three red lights, so we're good, just want to make sure the I.
Speaker 2:I guess I'm just gonna to contextualize and then we'll go off of this. I heard the quote the other day. We started talking about this beforehand, but I heard the quote the other day. We started talking about this beforehand, but I heard the quote. It was a Warren Buffett thing. We're in the Warren Buffett.
Speaker 1:The Oracle of Omaha.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't know if it was Buffett or Munger, but basically it's. I think it was Buffett. The name of his biography is the Snowball. Yeah name of his biography is the snowball, yeah, yeah, and the concept of the snowball is you take a snowball with sticky snow, just a small snowball.
Speaker 2:If you have a long enough hill, that's going to turn into this massive force yep so, you know, his thing has always been just like sticky snow, long hill, yep, and then things will kind of do work out for themselves. It's funny too, because you, you, there's so much stuff that's happened in the last week that kind of just nails this idea home. Audrey, we went out to breakfast last saturday, um and or last sunday, and we're sitting there and she's telling me a story. So one of she she'll like she teaches Sunday school and one of her kids, which is a concept that we think is very funny.
Speaker 1:That Audrey teaches Sunday school. Yeah, oh yeah, it's awesome.
Speaker 2:I mean she's been doing it for the entire time we've been here, yeah.
Speaker 1:Wow, I had no idea.
Speaker 2:But one of the kids came up to her and basically said like you fold a piece of paper in half, um, you know, it's like it's, um, you fold it. If you fold a piece of paper in half 64 times or something, it'll stretch around the and you know, obviously it's uh, you know. I think that fits in really well with what we're we're talking about, though. Just the idea of little steps and how you know how much that can actually, yeah, compound over over time.
Speaker 2:I think it goes back to I don't want to turn this into like an investing podcast or like no, we're gonna dive into the principles of math, but but it doesn't, it is the investing doesn't have to relate just to finances.
Speaker 1:obviously it's the first thing that we think of, because it's it's such an easy to wrap your head around compound interest, and if I save this amount of money every week until I'm 60, I'm going to have X amount at this conservative interest rate, or if I invest in an index fund or you know whatever.
Speaker 1:I think, you know, I have never been good at thinking about money in those terms. To me, it's like this money is a tool that I'm going to use to get me the thing that I want creatively, artistically, artistic, entrepreneurial, uh, uh, you know, entrepreneurially, um, because that's what I want to invest in, because I think, for me, I've whether I could really articulate it there was sort of a general awareness of, you know, if I want to get to a point where I have this body of work or I want to have this, you know, and sometimes, obviously in the more vain ego-based things, some kind of commercial result or some kind of attention result or whatever. If I want those things, like I gotta, I gotta invest in this thing Now I gotta start doing the work. Yeah, this isn't like that, that story that you hear, where somebody sat down and wrote a screenplay and a fever dream over a weekend and then turned it into like their friend, that's in the mail room at an agency and all of a sudden it was a bidding war between all the studios and their career was set. You know, um, I think I always knew that I was not going to be that person, yeah, and needed to just snowball, whether it was through this, through this screen.
Speaker 1:Screenwriting was really where it started. For me, it certainly certainly didn't happen with acting. And then it's definitely applies to creating content, building a body of work with photos, and I think about that all the time. Whether it's a photo I take with my phone and I keep for myself or I post to an Instagram story or a digicam or a film camera, whatever, I just think to myself. You're building a body of work, one photo at a time. And you know whether it's something that, just like, my kids give to a thrift store after I die, or it ends up being put into a book or whatever ends up happening with it all, I'm going to build that thing one bit at a time, just like this podcast, which is like one episode at a time, and this thing has really snowballed.
Speaker 1:And when I say that, I don't mean mean like again snowball the results that we think of right, subscribers, revenue, like, the things that everybody like, how many subscribers you have, how much revenue you like? Well, that's not we're, you know. We we're saying to ourselves we've done this 14, 15 times. However, what are we on? What is it?
Speaker 2:what would this be? Yeah, something like that something like that.
Speaker 1:And yeah, just the you know, not like it's a big you know output of our, of our money or anything but the equipment we've invested in the systems we have for, uh, figuring out what we're going to talk about, all of it the building, building up a system and then breaking it back down to make sure it's like yeah and when. When we say system, it's not like, yeah this like micromanaged regimented checklist.
Speaker 2:I think I think this is this has been a great lesson in yeah and just simplicity, just make it like I don't think we've faced a situation yet where it's felt like, oh, this is so much work to get this done. No no, like, we've, you know, we've had, I mean, and if you think about what's been accomplished, we've had content go out essentially every three days. Yeah, since last August, right, right right. That's pretty impressive.
Speaker 2:If, like, if, if you go back and you're like hey, I need you to release, you know, and like you know, two and a half hours of content on average every, yeah, every month, every, you know, three day clip, whatever, yep, and but it never has felt like a chore. No, and I think it's part of that is, yeah, we just try to strip it back and I think this is my, my thing, and you know, talking about investing or the snowball effect, like the, the key there is the time. You have to continue to do it.
Speaker 2:You know, like, if you want to, if you want to, if you want to lose weight you want to go to the, you have to go into the gym once isn't going to put in the reps, right? You have to go consistently over a long period of time, right, and you know if, if you want to get better at running, you can't just run around the block one day and then, okay, I mean I'm good now, I'm in shape, or whatever. If you're training for a race, whatever the thing, or if you're just running to run, yeah.
Speaker 2:The more you do it, the more it's going to. But I think most people like, oh, I'm going to put out a podcast, two podcasts a week, or like I'm going to jump in and I'm going to do this and this and this and this, and they just they make things too difficult from the start. And then there's also this human impulse to add complexity.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:I need this needs. I can make this better. We there's a westernized idea of more complex equals better.
Speaker 1:Yep.
Speaker 2:And I can make this better. That's really just saying I can make this more complex. Equals better. Yep, and I can make this better.
Speaker 2:That's really just saying I can make this more complex yep and then we've talked about how complexity sometimes can be a in service to our own ego and we've kind of pushed back at that at every. Whenever something comes up and it's we can make this more complex, we can, and I think that's that's the goal. I my, my thing has always been remove friction. If you look at everything that with through a long, a long term lens and that's not saying everything A long term lens applies to everything you can't just be the guy like when you have a hammer. Everything looks like a nail.
Speaker 1:That's you know, it's not the solution to everything?
Speaker 2:no, but test it against a long-term outlook and if it fits, then figure out. Okay, what are the what's impeding me from doing this consistently over time, and you start removing those barriers and then just let it go.
Speaker 1:Well, and we used the analogy before in a previous episode about you know just like how to perceive of tackling the work and I talked about. I try to break it up like a hundred feet at a time, like you're on a hike up. Mount Everest. Right, using that analogy, what I'm hearing from you is something like instead of looking at your project, but not looking at your project but taking on, you want to hike for the first time. You're going to hike Mount Everest, the first time I'm going to go buy.
Speaker 2:I have to buy all this gear. Why don't you?
Speaker 1:start a little smaller, build up to something like that. Why does your first project have to be some massive cinematic undertaking or some huge complex? I got to hire a couple of people. I got to do that. I got to do that. Just start doing some simple things on fire, for photography is I can have what feels like an outcome that is large in scope if you will like, let's say, a photography book or an exhibition. Not that I have any of that done, but I can have a body of work that feels large in scope. But the inputs to get it are just me going out and taking photos. Now, granted, I'm not shooting large format, I'm not doing portraits, where I have to kind of be a producer and make sure this person's there, wander the streets and strike up a conversation, earn someone's trust, go into their home, you know, take a photo. There's certainly projects like that that take a lot of that, are complex and in that it's not just walking around the street and it's not just saying that those aren't worth doing A hundred percent.
Speaker 1:But I'm saying to myself, like well, you're interested photography, instead of chewing that off right out of the gate, just like see how well you do with walking around and doing street photography or whatever. Did that for a while, decided I wanted to start a channel about it and you know that might turn into this and that might turn into that, and so what I like about this especially is we purposely tried to keep the complexity as low as possible. We used these standard definition flip cameras. We used our own equipment. We chose your studio space because it was just the vibe and the logistics and all that stuff. It checked all the boxes. I don't edit in Premiere Pro you don't really either but it has that app, that pod, what's it called? I always forget what it's called. Yeah, pod.
Speaker 2:No free ads. I really don't. I'll put a link in the show notes because I literally just sent it to someone and I can't remember. We use it all the time, yeah.
Speaker 1:But it auto autopod, I think. Yeah, I think it is autopod it automatically edits, you know, our three camera pockets, so all these, and you could argue that's a complex thing, right, yeah, but we can use it in a very simple way. So to kind of bring the broader point home, where this is a little bit of. You know, I'm talking in self-congratulatory ways here.
Speaker 2:Like oh, look what you guys did.
Speaker 1:The point is for you who are listening or watching, it is trying to connect the sort of like realization that we've had, like, oh, like, we can do this. We don't, you know, we don't have to just like have the idea over coffee or at like get uh all whipped up about something at dinner with our friends and then just let it fizzle out because it's maybe more complex than we're ready to commit to or whatever. Um, you know, we've looked at it with that snowball perspective and said let's just shoot a pilot and see what it's like, okay, that okay.
Speaker 1:I said, oh yeah, I see, let's make these adjustments and let's do another one and then another one, and all of a sudden it's just automatic. Yeah, it's easy. And to the point where, when we took a break for the holidays and your family situation, um, like you've like something's off, something's missing, something's been amputated you know the phantom limb feeling, and that's certainly been the case. When you mentioned that you know Sunday might be booked for you and we had to go on Thursday, I was a little, I had liked that last Sunday session we did to where I'm like, wow, we got like four hours.
Speaker 1:It was two podcasts. You know like there's something. You know like you're you're doing even more work, yeah, yeah, but it's that much more rewarding.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So, uh, you know, for me that's my big takeaway from this is once you shift that mindset too. But yeah, once, uh, once you can have that, that shifted mindset to chipping away at something, understanding that for most people it's going to take a lot of time to build something, and I don't mean, again, build 100,000 subscribers, silver play button or this many people are watching the podcast.
Speaker 2:Or a body of work.
Speaker 1:To just have a hundred episodes of a podcast and, even if you only have 50 subscribers, that you have this body of work, that you have established that you are capable of being disciplined and consistent and you know all of that. Yeah, Like it's doable.
Speaker 2:I think one thing that's interesting about the visual metaphor of the snowball is like you can, you can look at it a couple of ways. One like you're the snowball and you know different things you do in your life are increasing the stickiness and you know, or you, or you could think of it as, like every little project is its own snowball, yeah, and like, once it's rolling down the hill and it's gathered enough weight, you don't have to push it or restart it, you don't there's no effort involved.
Speaker 2:It literally is momentum is carrying it down the hill Perpetual motion yeah right. You know that's there's, there's the you know people always use that word, just like you know, object in motion. But I think there's something like you can object in motion, yeah, but I think there's something like you can roll a lot of snowballs, yeah, and like start with just little pebbles, right, yeah, just roll the pebbles and then and it's okay if some of them don't.
Speaker 1:Some of them don't. Don't make it some of them stop and it's all right some of them.
Speaker 2:You might have to, you know but if you have none going, if you have none going that. That, to me, is my worst nightmare, and I think it's interesting, though, because once you get enough going, yeah. Like they just go Sure and they kind of like, there you don't have to suddenly pause everything else in your life and like, oh, I need to put all the effort back into this.
Speaker 1:Right Snowball.
Speaker 2:It's kind of just routine. It's like sleeping like yeah, you know you're not going to go too many days without sleeping and yes, that's a biological need, but it almost creates like a similar yeah, effect of um it's not an option to not yeah have it yeah, it's just second nature and when, yeah, when, that's, you know, when you've, if you've been thoughtful about what, what snowballs you've rolled down.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you're gonna I don't want to say reap the benefits, because, again, right, like there is this whole like structure that that implies. But, yeah, you, maybe, maybe you are reaping the benefits, maybe that is the.
Speaker 1:Well, I wrote down about the complexity thing and for me specifically and for other people that I've spoken to, I've watched people have a very complex idea or a way of executing that idea, and the complexity and by complexity I might mean it requires multiple cameras or multiple people to help you, or it's like a very long-term project. You know, like this is like I'm going to take a photo of, uh, this place every every two weeks for three years and like that's the project. You know, while that seems very simple, it's a big time commitment, which could be something that's um, daunting, uh, and feels complex, just simply because you know you have to do that I do not disturb.
Speaker 1:so Sorry, cody. Cody must. I think Cody's a favorite of mine, so he broke through Cody's calling me. Sorry, cody, I'm going to have to send you to voicemail.
Speaker 2:Don't tell him why. We'll see. If he's a fan, we'll see if he's watching.
Speaker 1:Yeah, then we'll know if he's watching, because it will be like yeah. So the point being, do people create those complex projects knowingly, maybe subconsciously, because then they? It makes it easier to avoid doing it, and it's like a form of self-sabotage, like my big grand idea for this thing, and then it's like I've got it and it's great up in my head I'm going to do it. I'm going to do it this time and they don't, because they've made it so complex that there's just so many more opportunities to just say fuck it, I'm going to, I'm just going to watch another episode of uh, uh, you know, mad Men, mad Men madman, madman, no, that raises the question, at least in my mind like, do you think it's a common, I guess?
Speaker 2:how common do you think it is for people to subconsciously self-sabotage like and this is completely like I don't have, I'm not being like, oh well, I think this. What is your thought on this? Like I don't have, I haven't really spent a lot of time thinking about this. I think some people do self-sabotage I do too do you think? 100 more people self-sabotage than not like what I don't know In my circles. You're like everybody, so no.
Speaker 1:I don't know if it's yeah, I mean self-sabotage.
Speaker 2:I guess there's so many Maybe we define what we mean by self-sabotage too. I just think that's an interesting. Yeah, I don't know if it's a subconscious psychological phenomenon, like it's For me, for me, I think it's just it's for me.
Speaker 1:for me, I think it's just, um, I mean cause I'm. I think sometimes in the traditional way, we think of self-sabotage, we think of like destructive behavior, like that like causes harm to yourself, and I don't mean like physical harm necessarily, but saying something like something like.
Speaker 1:For me in this context, self-sabotage means, especially in the specific topic of getting, of creating, you know, the snowball and building work and a body of work and discipline and consistency and all that stuff it would be I've got like I'm going to make this thing. Um, you know, uh, there's all these projects I want to take on, I've got a lot of client work or I've got a full-time job or I've got all this stuff going on. That, you know, there's all these projects I want to take on, I've got a lot of client work or I've got a full-time job or I've got all this stuff going on. That, you know, is just not an option to not do that stuff. But I still have a dream, or I still have a desire to make work. Self-sabotage to me is, in that instance, whatever excuses or things you come up with to make you feel better about choosing not to do it yeah, about not, of choosing not to see it through, and you think those are sometimes innate from the onset of the project.
Speaker 1:I think so. I think sometimes we might be thinking in such grand terms because of our confidence, maybe because of our ego, because we're consuming stuff that is so incredible, Whether it's a Paul Thomas Anderson film or somebody's crazy YouTube channel that just does amazing work. Whatever it is that we're consuming, and we know we're capable of that. If we have the right ingredients, I have these cameras or I have these people, I can get to help me or whatever, like I can do that. So when I think of my idea, it's going to be that, you know, big grand, maybe complex project, the magnum opus is that the right word? Magnum opus, the masterpiece or whatever?
Speaker 2:And we maybe the master piece.
Speaker 1:We maybe come up with those ideas on such a grand scale because we know, when we come back down to reality from that place of high inspiration, high motivation, um, excitement, all of that we can use. How grand that vision. Well, I, I can't get three people to volunteer to do this. Uh, you know the the cost to rent those cameras. I can only do it with those cameras. Um, that got the amount of time editing it. You know whatever, you just start talking yourself out of doing it do you think that's like?
Speaker 2:and this is not because I wrote down. Let's break down the dynamics of completion or success.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And so you know, yeah, you're looking at something that inspires you and you're like I'm inspired to go make something like that.
Speaker 1:And we've had plenty of conversations, whether our conversation got you inspired about something for you, something for us to do, something for me to do, et cetera.
Speaker 2:Right. So but like, let's say, yeah, you watch a movie and you're like, wow, can't do that. Like, you know, is the instinct maybe. Just, I guess what I'm trying to say is, like, do you think that that self-sabotage is inherent from the start? And we'll go beyond self-sabotage, because I do want to move into, like, what can be done to kind of counteract these negative forces. You know, if these are the negative forces the self-sabotage, the doubt, the, you know, failure to meet expectations, the gap, yeah, if these are the negative forces, then like, the resistance what is the positive that can counter, or what are some positive forces, like you know?
Speaker 2:simplicity, obviously, yeah, simplifying the process at first, momentum, things like that. Um, but I'm interested in on this idea of like self-sabotage is that something where we is it like, uh, your eyes are bigger than your stomach, type of situation, or is it? Do you think it is like you get in and then you don't know enough to know that you don't know enough, and then you get far enough in and you hit a hit a wall, cause you're like, oh, wow, this is actually impossible. Or do you think it's like, um, you're subconsciously you know that it's, you're going to have an out anyways. Like, basically, what I'm saying is, is it predestined to run into a wall or is it like, oh, ran into a wall, can you adjust and move past it?
Speaker 1:My feeling would be that I think that self-sabotage is a symptom of a greater issue with your mindset, with your perspective on making work.
Speaker 2:Do you think there's certain people that don't self-sabotage at all?
Speaker 1:Who have that, who have self-sabotage is not a symptom of that mindset? Like, or they have a mindset that doesn't yeah, that doesn't allow for that I'm just gonna say it's possible, but yeah, I would have to sit here silently thinking about it for a while like running through my inventory of experiences I don't have like a fixed opinion, no, no, I mean we're exploring in real time people.
Speaker 1:We are 100% exploring this in real time. But yeah, that to me is, you know, I feel like what I'm thinking of self-sabotage to be is a symptom of a mindset that has unique ingredients of, for me, the person that I see someone with high confidence, maybe sometimes arrogance or ego, some stuff going on there. I see someone that has done complex things uh, work, but they haven't made their work um, so they're capable of a lot. Somebody who has this sounds weird, but like sort of visionary thinking, like they have a lot of ideas, they they're someone that has been like oh yeah, you know that thing, I had that idea 15 years ago and not like in a shitty way, like, yeah, like that person's lane, just like I do.
Speaker 2:I actually think I like you're modeling off of a specific um, I guess type of person and you're not modeling. I think you do have some of these qualities, but I just want to clarify, like I have context as to some of where the model is coming from. Well, he's not modeling off of himself in this situation and I think you share qualities, but I just like I don't like, you're not like. I just want to kind of call the idea of you're like oh, I think you know this person, cause he actually does have a model in mind.
Speaker 1:I have, I have several you know there, I think there there's plenty. There's, there's people that I have been in contact with, that um, that I'm thinking of, but then there's also myself, and not necessarily.
Speaker 2:I just, I just wanted to like, no idea that you're not, you know, but but part of me talking about this is self-examination.
Speaker 1:It is self-awareness I am going. What elements of this mindset may not affect my photography or my YouTube work or other work I'm doing, but do affect why I'm not doing Ted Snow or why I'm not tackling other more ambitious ideas that I have, because they are complex. They do have a lot of complex moving parts. Whether it's help or not that I have an idea specifically, but like putting a Kickstarter together and getting money or pitching something in the studios or a video idea I have or whatever it is. So I think it is.
Speaker 1:It is accessing my own experiences and my interpretation of what I've seen from other people and then also my understanding, based on what other people have told me with their issues, with making stuff, and this is something you know, as we have conversations like this, where we're relatively an open book to each other, with our frustrations, our shortcomings, our self-sabotage, our triumphs, everything that we've done, that we're excited about, proud of whatever that dynamic between us exists with me and other people as well.
Speaker 1:Where you have conversations that you could argue are sort of a therapy session for lack of a better term where there's an open exchange, being vulnerable, truthful, forthcoming and really people that can deploy self-awareness and go. I think this is what's happening with me and why I'm not doing what I want, because a lot of this comes from, essentially, conversation with people that are going. If I could design my life, it would be this, but my actual life is this, and you know I don't sit there and go. Well, let me tell you how to get to where I am, because I've designed my life and let me tell you every box is checked.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but I do think that I may be for those. People have a couple more boxes checked than they do, and we're drawn to each other because I like talking to people about ways they can think of things differently or try this or do this to see if they can get those boxes checked. And I think they might like talking to me because I was in some instances where they were and I kind of figured a few things out to at least get a little bit further along.
Speaker 2:It's funny because it is like different sides have different boxes checked.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Like like there's boxes that.
Speaker 1:And they have boxes checked that I don't have. That's what I'm saying, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's, it's. It's just interesting how.
Speaker 1:And so there's well, you've, you're kind of doing this Well, you're kind of doing this.
Speaker 1:Well, you're kind of doing that, how do I do what you're doing? Well, how do I do what you're doing? Yeah, and so it goes back to Mad Men. A lot of people are doing what's expected of them instead of what they want, and I think self-sabotage is a way of kind of saying I just feel like I have to do what's expected of me. People expect these things, they expect me to pay for this, they expect me to provide this. They expect me to do this. I want to keep up with my peers, I want to, whatever those the construct.
Speaker 1:I always kind of refer to the I don't even know what it's called the I don't even know what it's called, but, like commerce and earning a living and the pressure we have from social media and media and all that to have a house and to have this and have all these milestones, and there's this sort of like definition of success. Um, versus, where I feel like people look at my situation and go Matt seems capable of a lot. Why does he have this little rink-a-dink house? Or why does he have one 20-year-old car and then a nice one? Why isn't his garage inside drywalled? Why, you know why are these things there, with someone that kind of seems like he has it figured out? You know, and I say the same thing to my friends that are like you've got you checked all the success boxes, you know what we expect of you to have a house and savings and retirement and investments in stocks and all that. But you're so unhappy, whereas I'm I'm very happy and fulfilled.
Speaker 1:I have my moments. Of course I'm not like 24 seven just happy, but I'm like I'm on the right track, like this is working. I'm getting to where I want to go.
Speaker 2:I hate to like just bury this snowball metaphor. Bury it in the snow. But you know, maybe you realize that your ball is rolled down the wrong hill, Like at least your ball is rolling down the right hill.
Speaker 2:You know it might be going slower right down that hill, but like that's better than realizing halfway, three quarters of the way down the hill, that, oh shit, the hill I wanted to roll down was over there. Yeah, now do I have to walk to the top of this one and then start with another tiny ball on that hill?
Speaker 1:yep and uh and then that's the death of the snowball metaphor. I'll try not to bring that one back, but and the idea of that is so daunting that most people, just you know well, I'm so close to the bottom of this hill I'm just I'm gonna stick.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm gonna ride it out.
Speaker 1:Depressing I know, and I, I, I think so much of what I've done my whole life is is to push back against that. Uh, you know, and it's not like, oh, I'm like some profound artist and I've avoided the construct and I, and I don't need to make money and I don't, you know, I'm, I'm, you know, living this Bohemian life where I've just kind of I don't give a shit about, uh, savings and retirement or having, you know, a newer car or whatever all that stuff is in there. But for me, ultimately, I sit there and I go, if I don't wake up every day excited to make work, even if it's work that is, to promote film, convert, nitrate and get a little bit of a commission off of it, or going out and, you know, doing street photography that I'm going to put together in a book in a year, that maybe I print one copy, and that's all that ever happens with it.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Or I write a poem or I outline a screenplay or whatever. If I'm not waking up every day making those things and earning some kind of living from making what I want to make every day, kind of living from making what I want to make every day, I think I will be a disaster. I already have enough anxiety. I pick my cuticles and I get agitated and I have, you know, sometimes a little bit of a short temper with myself. You know all these things that are externalizations of that struggle, all these things that I that that are externalizations of that struggle. If I was every day like punching in or doing something that I just detested and I would be.
Speaker 2:I also want to like clarify like this is one way to look at it. A hundred percent Some people probably, like some people, get true enjoyment from that. So it's not that one way.
Speaker 1:No no.
Speaker 2:In our scenario, it does feel like we found a nice little pocket.
Speaker 1:Yes and yeah for me, you know, and I've certainly had like career type employment post-production supervisor at a production company and I was not miserable doing that. But it was also part of the strategy of getting to a point where I could figure out how I'm going to do my own thing. How am I going to make sure that when I wake up, I'm making the work that I want to make even if it was more success in screenwriting and I'm working with producers or a studio executive and I'm getting notes, like the one you just got for your project, where you just like what Um and that is is difficult. But you know I'm sitting there going, I'm writing a movie and I'm getting paid to do it. Yeah, um, you know I go back to when I was a cashier at a grocery store.
Speaker 1:I was a cashier on and off through high school and college for 10 years and when I stood there at the cash register I was dead inside, yeah, and you know you're 17 or you're 21 and you're on summer break from college or whatever.
Speaker 1:Like you're not out there trying to like figure out what you're going to do with your life. As far as your career, sure, you're in school for acting or you're in school for this or whatever, but you're not. You know, at least I was and I wasn't like, how do I keep moving toward that goal in the summer by having a job that's related to that? I was like, well, you know, I'm just going to do the easy thing and get my job back at the grocery store, and you know, and and ring people up, and you know, I mean I would just be screaming on the inside like I don't want to be here, I don't want to be here, I don't want to be. This is not what I want to do, and you know, for me, you know, I've just focused so much of my energy on figuring out how to never feel that again. Yeah, how to never feel that way.
Speaker 2:Do you think it's essential to feel that way at some point or not? Okay, it's not. It's not essential. There's obviously people that have, and I don't mean this in a derogatory way. There's obviously people who have avoided that feeling and still end up doing something that they love and that gives them a hundred percent satisfaction. But yeah, it's probably helpful to feel that way, to at least have that context right, counterpoint of like oh it can be much worse.
Speaker 1:Like well, it's also for me. It's just, um, if, if you don't continue to push yourself, this, this, that situation could be your reality again. Yeah, you, you could make decisions that put you in a really bad way financially or whatever, and the only option is to you know, I don't know. I, I I took a job, uh, because I was freelancing before. I had the full-time position as a post-production supervisor supervisor and I applied to work as an at-home tech tech support advisor for Apple and I would tell people what my job was. I work from home. They sent me a computer, all this stuff and they're like that's like a dream job. And I would have like like the start of panic attacks before every shift because I had to do what they told me to do for eight hours.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And even though I got in the flow of it and I kind of overcame it, you know, and whatever then they would, you know we would have a call where they, you know, gave me, you know you're taking too long on your calls, You're not hitting these targets. You know all this stuff and I was just like it drove me crazy. Yeah, Um, not because I think they're wrong in doing that, but that just wasn't compatible with me. Yeah, and you know all the iterations I've had on from pursuing, acting and going I don't want permission to work, Like I have to get permission for you to work. And then screenwriting, OK, well, I can work and work and work and work, and then when I finally get done, after two years of writing the screenplay, we take it and then I still need permission to work because this isn't the finished product, this isn't the final thing.
Speaker 2:It's like, yeah, doing that for somebody else, yeah, and then I think, yeah, the screenwriting is super, because writing is something that I get a lot of joy from. And yeah, when you add in that aspect of you're writing the screenplay to sell it, yeah, and then you don't sell it. If you were optimizing that screenplay to sell, you're making, oh, sacrifice here, sacrifice here, sacrifice here, because this isn't gonna, and then you get to the point it doesn't sell. Then it it can feel a little empty yes of an exploration.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. So I kind of like I wrote down here let's break down the dynamics of competition or success. Obviously, if you're new to the show, this is where we solve that's right the problem of listen, uh bookmark this yeah this is gonna.
Speaker 1:This is gonna be a breakthrough, and that's right in the world of philosophy and human thought.
Speaker 2:Um, so, you know, there's, I think there's dynamics to it, right, and to completely oversimplify things, there's positive forces and negative forces, right, right. So if we're talking about a project, a project is so granular, right, yeah, at least in my like a project. Like a project might be like, oh, we're gonna do a podcast or we're gonna pursue these topics, but like, I don't know if, like, this is a project, like the podcast itself is a product, but maybe it is so like, yeah, I guess the first step is let's define what that is. So you start something and then I put completion in quotation marks. So first you have to almost set that expectation, right. Like what does success look like? Right, set that expectation right. Like what does success look like? Right, that's almost the first step to, because, like, when we sat down, the idea of success wasn't for this it wasn't.
Speaker 2:We want something that's wildly successful. If we would have sat down with that objective, it would be a much different approach. Like we want something that's financially successful, we want to hit a million subscribers and we want, then we would suddenly be optimizing for a completely different set of yes. Set of outcomes than we are.
Speaker 1:What we would be making would be tethered to that outcome, right and and in my opinion, untruthful and kind of maybe, yeah, yeah, maybe, yeah.
Speaker 2:You know it gets into the advertising thing, right.
Speaker 1:Maybe not untruthful, but just sort of like.
Speaker 2:I think you can optimize to metrics and choose to still tell the truth while doing Like you can optimize towards a set of outcomes and choose to still, but you are locked into those. Yeah, we've set a very different set of expectations. Yeah, yeah, I don't like so. Yeah, I mean, like I said, guys, we're solving some crazy things.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we're working through this.
Speaker 2:You know the dynamics of success. I guess it does start with defining what the heck that means in the first place start with defining what the heck that means in the first place.
Speaker 1:And and yes, and I think part of um, part of the sort of ingredients one of the ingredients and me having some success in being consistent with getting work done is having a idea of what I want the outcome to be. Yeah, and even if it is, wake up every day and do what you want, yeah, earn enough money to be a responsible adult. Maybe, not the most responsible adult, but yeah, mildly responsible, but mildly acceptably responsible, even if you're literally riding the razor's edge of that at times.
Speaker 1:If you can do that as a baseline like, keep at it you know, obviously building from there.
Speaker 2:So you've got, I guess, yeah, I think you develop. What does success look like? And then it's all about doing what you can to get the momentum Right, Right. What you can to get the momentum right, right. It's when you started your channel, you know you started with one subscriber yep two subscribers I had 53 subscribers.
Speaker 1:I remember for like a long over a year long time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I remember that too. Yeah, and then like yeah, this, I I'm using the channel just because I think for most people that is an easy, like people are watching this on youtube probably you know what's easier a snowball a snowball, we'd kill that man, you know.
Speaker 2:But yeah, you, you, you know. You started from a very insignificant point and you slowly gained. So you set the idea of what was the idea in that scenario, like what was your idea of success? Did you have one? Do you wish you would have had one? Do you think that you had to like redefine that as you went? Is it possible to redefine it as you go.
Speaker 1:I think so. I feel like I've been redefining it a lot this year, especially, uh, last year. Um, you know, I I didn't get the results that I was hoping for with the channel, whether it was revenue or subscriber growth or whatever but I was also very focused on those things. I wasn't thinking as much, and this is my issue. I wasn't thinking as much as are you telling the truth? Are you creating work? That is your voice.
Speaker 1:You have something to say with every video, even if it's a Final Cut Pro tutorial like there's, there's room to say something with what you're doing, and that doesn't mean like some weird editing style or being zany or controversial or or, uh, inflammatory or whatever.
Speaker 1:It can just be. I don't know your perspective on how nobody else is teaching this thing this way, and you're going to do it this way because that's what worked for you, to learn it, whatever, um, and so, yes, I have shifted my point of view with how I'm going to make videos this year and it's much more aligned with everything we've learned and talked about between you and me. A lot of it's fueled by these conversations. It's fueled by reading Rick Rubin's book, listening to his podcast, stephen Pressfield's, the War of Art, like all this stuff that you're consuming stories about other artists from all time and what they went through and what they've done and all of that stuff. So I think that can shift. To answer your question, I remember when I shifted the focus of my channel from videos about a person running a production company to I remember those yeah to more like educational final cut pro tutorials.
Speaker 1:Really, what I was grappling with at that moment, especially as the pandemic set in, was I'm tired of needing permission to work. I'm in my third career, if you will acting permission to work. Acting permission to work, screenwriting permission to work, video production company, trying to work with clients. Permission to work we want to hire you. I'm like I'm tired of needing permission to make the thing that I think is going to be awesome or help your business achieve its goals or whatever. So I need to just make stuff that I want to make that goes directly to an audience, um, but then something that might actually earn some revenue, so that I don't have to depend on getting on the stuff that needs permission to work as much. I can build something over here where I have a connection directly to an audience. It earns revenue, and then these types of things with the production company or the screenwriting is optional and it's not devastating when it doesn't happen.
Speaker 1:I'm not in a scarcity mindset all the time. I'm not pricing things out of desperation or fear. I'm not in this to me, just an unhealthy mindset with the approach to the work and as this thing started to snowball, it got to the point where all I had to do to be on that razor's edge of a responsible adult was that stuff and the client work, or the should be a b-cam operator in a shoot or help somebody make their documentary for pay, whatever that stuff was icing on the cake, if you will, or optional, I didn't have to have it. I could say no and I'd be okay, yeah, and so that being in that place was, uh, part of the component.
Speaker 2:Well, one of the components of success for me. It's so interesting because I honestly, the the more we.
Speaker 2:It's just like just move forward you know like we just spent a bunch of time talking before you gave that answer of well, do you start by defining what success looks like. Yeah, it's like, maybe you just move, but then, like, the counterpoint to that is you have you? We started this whole conversation off by talking about examples in our mind of people who moved and just got caught up in the day-to-day yeah, and then they got too too far into something and couldn't. So it's like it's such a paradox because it's just start, just go, but then it's like, well, you know, if you just go, then you might get caught.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So, like I, just if only we could find some solution to this now. You know it's tough.
Speaker 2:it's a tough thing to diagnose and for me it was always I I think the best results that we've had are just move, continue to move and then maybe it's. Maybe it's not just moving, because if you get into the movement and you just keep going you're not reevaluating. Maybe there has to be some aspect of like always reevaluating, like you reevaluated, you hit a point, you hit a pretty you know for you it was the pandemic comes along and shuts down all your productions and then you're like yeah, I really don't want to this and you kind of shifted and changed the trajectory a little bit.
Speaker 1:And throughout all of that and I think this applies to, you know, actors, it applies to directors, playwrights, painters, anybody that is pursuing that kind of life you get, you know, an idea. I'm going to try this or I'm going to go. My idea of success is this or I have an idea to make this thing whatever it is, and then you do, and then maybe that becomes too much your thing and you're like, well, I kind of want to break out, I want to break away from that, but then this new way of doing it isn't quite the right fit either. To me it's just like a Goldilocks thing. You're constantly kind of evaluating the beds and the porridge and kind of, and it's, it's, it's shifting as you go, and I think you know even somebody like Steven Spielberg or Bradley Cooper.
Speaker 1:You know you always hear those stories about actors that, like the pendulum swung a little too far into commercial fare and so they just like I'm almost willing to work for free just to do a small little indie film and and I'm not trying to get an Academy award, I just want to do work that's fulfilling and meaningful and has an impact and it isn't something that's so studio driven or commercial or whatever, you hear stories like that all the time. Uh, spielberg, you know, always talks about how, if he doesn't feel nervous or uncomfortable on set like he's not doing something, he's not doing something he should be doing. Yeah, I was just watching a YouTube video about these guys that, like went to Compton and knocked on doors to ask people if they could make them dinner.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And and their efforts kind of took off on social media and this gentleman, who was a White House chef, found out he's in the Los Angeles, southern California area and he asked if he could come help them. And he says in the video he's like the reason I did this was because my mom always told me that if I'm going to do something and I'm not afraid I'm not doing the right stuff and he's like this made me afraid, so I'm doing it, yeah, and I'm not doing the right stuff.
Speaker 1:And he's like this made me afraid, so I'm doing it, yeah, and I'm not saying that's the right way for everybody to live that's an interesting.
Speaker 2:That's an interesting tidbit, though, is like chase, chase the fear a little bit, yeah, because I mean, yeah, every look, there's an aspect of fear every time we sit down and do one of these. Yeah, like there's an aspect of oh well, every time I go do street photography, I don't have anything interesting to say which you know. Photography, I don't have anything interesting to say which, you know, who knows, we might not have anything interesting to say but that's not for us to judge, and that's not you know.
Speaker 2:Some people are going to find some of it interesting, Some people are going to not find it interesting.
Speaker 1:Just like everything that's made in the world, whether it's a product or a piece of work.
Speaker 2:So I think at the end of the day it's just like yeah, you know, chase after that, fear a little bit, Don't overthink anything.
Speaker 1:Especially if it's coupled with. I have something to say. Yeah, I have a point of view, I have a perspective, but you know, don't again.
Speaker 2:we talked about this in the pre-show. It's like we're kind of just all playing games.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Like it or not, we're kind of just all playing games and don't're doing too seriously. Because the minute you start to take yourself too seriously, or the minute you feel comfortable in the boat and you're like, well, well, let's try not to rock it too much, you know, that's you're, you're, you're starting the decline, at that point yeah.
Speaker 2:So don't? You know, don't take yourself too seriously. Chase after fear. These are all like these are good little postcard nuggets or like wall posters, but I mean, I think there's a lot of truth to it. Like you know, don't take yourself too seriously, Chase after fear. You know, momentum is a good thing. Don't overcomplicate stuff. I mean, there's just all of these, all of these things that go into getting things done. Don't worry about what other people think, what's expected versus what you want.
Speaker 2:And some of these things. The inverse is just as true as the. You know, you can approach, you know, don't worry about what other people think. But then maybe it's like, do worry about what other people think, like maybe that's also useful in a scenario.
Speaker 1:Well, I think it's also accepting that there isn't like some utopian scenario you can achieve the nirvana of pure, altruistic artistic creation, where what you do takes care of the construct and the rat race.
Speaker 2:There is no answer, there's no like yeah, where, like I have money, but I have no stress from it.
Speaker 1:All my bills are paid. There's no like I have money but I have no stress from it. All my bills are paid. I live in a studio that's out in the middle of nowhere and I just make work every day and I make what I want and everybody loves it.
Speaker 2:I never grapple with anything you know like that's not fun, the duality embrace embrace the embrace the total chaos and messiness of everything and then embrace the total order and simultaneously embrace the order and the yeah, yeah, I think it's um it, it. That's an interesting you know, with this episode kind of acting as a metaphor, like we're just chasing loose loose ends to find that they're not connected to anything.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:And then you go back and you chase another loose end and then you come to the end and it's like well, what was the point? It was like I don't know.
Speaker 1:What was the point? Well, and for me especially, just us chasing loose ends in these episodes and on some of these episodes where we're working through something, versus some of the episodes where we're coming in hot with a topic we have, we have either expertise or a very strong opinion, very strong feelings about it that we can nope. It's this, it's this, it's this.
Speaker 2:At that current moment in time. Yeah, right.
Speaker 1:And for me this is and I, you know, what I hope people listening and watching are also on a journey to do is just, it's to increase our understanding of everything that's led up to this point, but knowing that we're never going to achieve a place of this perfect understanding and like, oh, finally. I got it all figured out and I'm good.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we're gonna be discussing the same pictures I'm making videos I've got money in the bank like the, the.
Speaker 1:We got nothing left to talk about, bro.
Speaker 2:We've got it all done, so we did it, check it out.
Speaker 1:We did it all done, yeah so for me, what I'm doing and what I'm working on and my perception of it, all of that stuff has been greatly informed by this podcast, greatly informed by videos and stuff and essays and books that you've shared with me, stuff that I found myself other people have shared with me, and you know being a sponge for that kind of input to help me get a better understanding of what works for me in achieving my goal, which is to create a body podcast. All of this stuff that I can step back from and go. You know I'm not, you know, on the Mount Rushmore of podcasters. I'm not on the Mount Rushmore of filmmakers. I'm not this person who's achieved greatness in street photography.
Speaker 2:The whole concept of that is just kind of yeah it's, it's, it's. You know there's always something to be said for it, and when you're in the space there's always. But when you step back, you know hundred thousand foot view you. You can't belittle it. But also you can't take it as seriously. Yeah, it may be that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah I mean because, at the end of the day, the body of work represents.
Speaker 2:It's a symbol of you woke up and did what you yeah what you wanted to do and I don't mean what you wanted so upset. At the current moment in time, our culture is so obsessed with this idea of greatness being the greatest, the greatest to do something I don't, I don't know that they are.
Speaker 1:I wonder if we're more obsessed with fame and attention than actual greatness.
Speaker 2:Well, I mean the idea of being the greatest brings this, you know, debate with it and this argument, and it's all you know, it's the classic like who's better?
Speaker 1:Jordan or LeBron.
Speaker 2:And then that's been appropriated by brands and leveraged by you know, press teams across the country, leveraged by you know press teams across the country.
Speaker 1:I have felt like I have heard good conversations about greatness, though in a more pure less ego-driven.
Speaker 2:I think you kind of nailed like I think we'd be more productive as a society if it was just like wake up and you know, they're, they're, is it a? Is that a steve jobs? Quote?
Speaker 2:no, it's bob dylan quote yeah, you gotta get out here, I gotta go um five there's a bob I think it's a bob dylan quote where it's like, like success is if I wake up in the morning, I go to bed at night and in between I only do what I want to do or something. And if we could reframe it is that a? Little bit more. If there's anything, we're pitching Right.
Speaker 1:And I want people to understand and I know probably the bulk of our audience are people that are trying to make work. They're involved in artistic stuff, creative stuff. It's not do whatever I want. I'm going to watch Seinfeld reruns and eat ice cream and spend a bunch of money and you know, like just bullshit. It's not just do whatever I want, like it's home alone or something it's. It's, you know, to have like a strong desire and intentionality and and making work like self-expression, whatever you want to call it, having something to say, like funneling all of that stuff through the work that you make photography, painting, sculpting, writing, you know whatever. And for some it can be working at an advertising agency and writing incredible copy or coming up with that amazing take on. You know, hardee's you know, and it doesn't have to be like.
Speaker 1:It doesn't mean that the only way to feel this way or to achieve this is by working for yourself, Um, uh, not having a job or getting a salary or an hourly wage Like there's so many. I mean, there's people that are, um, doctors, EMTs, you know whatever, and they are. They are doing what I'm trying to do. Yeah, doctors, EMTs, you know whatever, and they are, they are doing what I'm trying to do. Yeah, Feel that way where work doesn't feel like work. This is, you know, this is what I want to do with my life.
Speaker 1:This is my mission, yeah, and I never wanted to be off of that Right Now. It took a while to kind of figure out and it changes. You know, actor, screenwriter, production company, like I'm trying and that's another thing thing too, like comparing myself to other people's trajectories and going well, they didn't bounce around from all this stuff, so you must be doing something wrong. Because they fit your vision of success. I feel like everybody.
Speaker 2:Everybody kind of bounces around, though, whether it's in medium or in subject matter right, but everybody, but I think Everybody kind of bounces.
Speaker 1:But I think we latch on to the outliers. Spielberg started at eight years old making eight millimeter films and he had a linear trajectory through it. And because everybody models what they want off of him, or Kubrick or this person or that person, but then when they actually dig in, yeah it's like you're modeling off of four people. Yeah, the outliers.
Speaker 1:And the, the history of billions and billions, and that's part of you know what we get exposed to in the media, and I don't mean like a conscious effort by the media to only show us the outliers Although there may be, you know can do that and when it doesn't happen, we rake ourselves over the coals. That or we don't even get started because we say, if I can't be him, didn't we talk about this like I'm scorsese.
Speaker 2:but well, it's, it's like the, you know you, if the sooner you just I think it's, the sooner you just start doing your own thing yeah like and not necessarily in like doing your own thing and like. You can do your own thing while working for a corporation.
Speaker 2:You can do your own thing while working at a grocery store, yes, but like when you like, the sooner you just start being whatever doing what you want your primal self, yeah, like and I don't mean, you know, following every urge or whatever, but it's like you're just, yeah, when you've removed that kind of projection or that, that modeling, that happens, yeah, um, I think you're better off. And you know, everybody's got a lot to offer. Everybody's got a lot to offer. They just need to kind of like spend time figuring out who they are, what they have, like, I like it's such a that's such a general concept, like that's such a large concept that it's hard to like. I, I have something and I know that those words don't quite explain what I'm trying to say yes, and I don't want to like. You know you got to get out of here, I don't want to continue, but yeah, I think it breaks down to just like you, you have a truth. Yeah, like something, yeah, and just follow that yep yeah, you're.
Speaker 1:You're in the flow of what you're supposed to be doing. Yeah, and this is the last couple years of the closest I feel like I've been to just having having that on one side. The responsible adult stuff what's expected of you? Because I do have to make money I do have to put food on the table. I do have to do those things, but then I'm also going every day going. Holy shit, it's four o'clock. Oh my God, I had such a great time today editing a video or editing my photos or whatever, and it's helping me work towards.
Speaker 1:It had been a golden afternoon and I remember having the familiar conviction that life was beginning over again with the summer.