In this episode, we explore the complex relationship between nostalgia and modern entertainment. We discuss how nostalgia is often used as a commercial tool and why it sometimes fails to resonate deeply with audiences. We also examine the success of nostalgia-driven movies and their impact on the entertainment industry.
Our conversation delves into personal experiences with nostalgic media, highlighting how certain films and series can evoke powerful emotions and memories. We share our thoughts on the balance between enjoying nostalgic content and seeking out new, original stories. The discussion includes examples of beloved movies and franchises that have successfully leveraged nostalgia to captivate audiences.
Finally, we consider the future of storytelling in cinema and the potential risks and rewards of relying heavily on nostalgia. We reflect on the importance of creating new, original content that can stand the test of time and resonate with future generations. This episode offers a thoughtful analysis of the role of nostalgia in contemporary entertainment and its broader implications. -Ai
If you enjoyed this episode, please consider giving us a rating and/or a review. We read and appreciate all of them. Thanks for listening, and we'll see you in the next episode.
Links To Everything:
Video Version of The Podcast: https://geni.us/StudioSessionsYT
Matt’s YouTube Channel: https://geni.us/MatthewOBrienYT
Matt’s 2nd Channel: https://geni.us/PhotoVideosYT
Alex’s YouTube Channel: https://geni.us/AlexCarterYT
Matt’s Instagram: https://geni.us/MatthewIG
Alex’s Instagram: https://geni.us/AlexIG
In this episode, we explore the complex relationship between nostalgia and modern entertainment. We discuss how nostalgia is often used as a commercial tool and why it sometimes fails to resonate deeply with audiences. We also examine the success of nostalgia-driven movies and their impact on the entertainment industry.
Our conversation delves into personal experiences with nostalgic media, highlighting how certain films and series can evoke powerful emotions and memories. We share our thoughts on the balance between enjoying nostalgic content and seeking out new, original stories. The discussion includes examples of beloved movies and franchises that have successfully leveraged nostalgia to captivate audiences.
Finally, we consider the future of storytelling in cinema and the potential risks and rewards of relying heavily on nostalgia. We reflect on the importance of creating new, original content that can stand the test of time and resonate with future generations. This episode offers a thoughtful analysis of the role of nostalgia in contemporary entertainment and its broader implications. -Ai
If you enjoyed this episode, please consider giving us a rating and/or a review. We read and appreciate all of them. Thanks for listening, and we'll see you in the next episode.
Links To Everything:
Video Version of The Podcast: https://geni.us/StudioSessionsYT
Matt’s YouTube Channel: https://geni.us/MatthewOBrienYT
Matt’s 2nd Channel: https://geni.us/PhotoVideosYT
Alex’s YouTube Channel: https://geni.us/AlexCarterYT
Matt’s Instagram: https://geni.us/MatthewIG
Alex’s Instagram: https://geni.us/AlexIG
And it had been a golden afternoon and I remember having the familiar conviction that life was beginning over again with the summer and summer.
Speaker 2:This idea that nostalgia is a commercial means and they're like why is this failing? And it's like, well, we say we want nostalgia, and it looks like we want nostalgia, but then when we get it, it's really just not that interesting. It's not telling us anything new, it's not giving us anything new to think about, it's just rehashing something that wasn't that interesting in the first place, but it was interesting because of its proximity to other memories.
Speaker 3:I think, overall it is working, though I do think that you are seeing enough success with movies that are tapping in nostalgia that they're going to continue to double and triple down.
Speaker 2:Well, and so we're gonna have like nostalgia of today's nostalgia in like 10 years, like there's less original let's hope so that there's enough original content.
Speaker 3:well, no, there could be nostalgia in the future.
Speaker 2:That's what I'm saying Is there like nostalgia of the copy.
Speaker 3:Right and I think that it's like how people prefer the prequels to the originals because, they're from a different generation 100% and I just took my daughter to see the 25th anniversary re-release of the Phantom Menace and I do have a better appreciation for those movies, even though at the time I wasn't like these suck, no, um, but I was like, oh, that's different, uh, and that that appreciation we're not going to go into Star Wars stuff developed because I was watching all the subsequent material, the Clone Wars cartoon and all the different stuff that came after those movies and it really helped me develop an appreciation.
Speaker 3:Now I am definitely drawn to nostalgia. I see probably slightly more movies that are sequels to something, especially an older movie, just slightly more of those than I do. Original movies like we've seen in the past, the Zone of Interest or whatever independent or more less commercially focused movies that are out, and some of them I've really enjoyed just because it's both nostalgia and it's just fun, pure entertainment. I've really enjoyed just because it's both nostalgia and it's just fun entertainment, pure entertainment. For example, I saw Top Gun Maverick twice in the theaters, maybe even three times, and one was so much fun with it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's just such a blast. One was with my daughter, one was with um DJ and maybe a third time with somebody else I can't remember DJ and maybe a third time with somebody else, I can't remember and for me it was an escape into something that I watched a lot when I was a kid. Top Gun was on VHS over and over again at my house. I played the Nintendo game, the theme music, all of that stuff triggered goosebumps and watery eyes and all the good feelings, and I do think it was a really well-made, that kind of movie yeah, incredibly well-made. My daughter loved it. She thought it was like just an awesome uh experience, both with the sound design, the visuals, the, the pacing, the action, all that stuff. So I get into the nostalgia for sure. Um, here's what I think is really the the bigger element of that. It's not that the movie studios and the filmmakers are excited about nostalgia. I think some of them, some of them are the producers.
Speaker 3:I think the studios and the people that actually make these decisions just go look, this is less risky, oh we are trying, we are 100% trying to invest everything in, in, first of all, where the attention is and the stuff that we can make that presents the least amount of risk.
Speaker 2:You can't build models off of something that doesn't exist. And no, no, like, the thing that these studios love most is a good revenue model.
Speaker 3:Right, and so they're going to harvest all of these movies from the past, especially with, you know, listening to potentially a vocal minority, but listening to what goes on in social media and things they see in memes and stuff that comes up in the popular culture, or the zeitgeist movie coming out this summer that I think a lot of people are going to be excited by and I think, honestly, it is going to do well box office. Honestly, it is going to do well box office and I think it's going to continue to reinforce Hollywood's instincts that these nostalgia trips are a worthwhile investment is the new Twisters movie. There's another Alien movie coming out Alien Romulus. That's coming out. Guess what.
Speaker 3:I'm going to be there that weekend to see it, because I watched Alien and aliens and even alien three. I saw him in the theater, like I, and I am also someone who's very sentimental and romantic about that stuff. I, I like feeling like I've been transported back to being a 14 year old kid again for two hours. I enjoy that, um. So it's um, it's tough because I enjoy that. So it's tough because I know that I am part of voting with my dollars to reinforce the making of those things?
Speaker 3:Certainly, yeah. But I will say just to wrap up my take on it they are more often a miss than they are a hit for me and I'll sit there and come away even from like the Star Wars sequels that came out. I'll come away from them going. Man, I feel good. I heard the music I love, I saw the ship that I love. I heard Chewbacca make his sounds, I heard the sound of lightsabers, all that stuff, and then I'm like like wait a second, that movie fucking sucked yeah, and it's not.
Speaker 3:It's not teaching you anything new, it's not giving well, you know, without going into everything with the sequels, you know, um, there's, you know, after watching them several times, listening to video essays, really kind kind of assessing, you know, my take on it and also doing sort of a self audit like how do you really feel about this?
Speaker 3:You know there were there's just a whole host of issues that I have with the people that were, you know, held custodian of George's vision and what they did with the sequels, especially to Luke Skywalker's character, which I think is an absolute travesty. Did with the sequels, especially to Luke Skywalker's character, which I think is an absolute travesty. At the same time, though, I have enjoyed the Mandalorian, watching that with my daughter, and when spoiler alert at the end of season two or three, whatever it was, luke Skywalker comes back and saves the day, I literally, dude was, was crying. I am just like. This is the most 14 years old I have felt in my entire life, next to maybe seeing jurassic park in the theater with my daughter, and it just, in a good way, completely gutted me yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I don't know how to describe it, but it was an amazing feeling and I certainly would chase after that again.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Um, that's so interesting to how we make. Like I don't really have a lot of theatrical. I definitely sometimes go back to you know. Sometimes go back to you know, I don't know, like I guess part of it is you have to like I have moments where it kind of takes me back to childhood. But then I kind of have this thought, like well, I'd rather be here, yeah, than there, like not that I had like a terrible childhood or anything. I just I'd rather be here.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:There, Um, I mean, I definitely still throw on like, okay, I used to watch, um like the like, the Batman and Spider-Man cartoons the nineties. Batman and Spider-Man cartoons constantly and so now I I mean, I always throw those on.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I told you I used to watch, like the Jetsons and the Flintstones. Yeah, me too. Throw those on Um, cause they're all on HBO now. Yeah, uh, the old Scooby doo, like, throw that on. I still love those cartoons.
Speaker 2:I'm very excited to like have, you know, have kids and watch, watch with them. But at the same time, like I don't have this, like sometimes I'll re, I'll rewatch things from my childhood and if it doesn't stand up, then I'm just like, oh yeah, and so I've almost guarded myself to that where I won't rewatch things right like the the.
Speaker 2:Batman cartoons I knew those like I. I first of all I had very good man. I've watched a lot. I obsessed I read the books and stuff like that. But like I knew that was critically like well done, not that critical, whatever matters, but I just knew it was well done it was dealing with deeper themes and it would still be interesting.
Speaker 2:It's still as interesting as an adult. Yeah, some of the stuff is corny, but what's not like, but something like I. I made that mistake too many times where, like I revisited something yeah, it didn't hold up and it didn't hold up, so I almost like to live with the memory of it being better I think that is yeah then to revisit, like star wars I mean.
Speaker 2:I totally remember, and with me it wasn't um in the theaters obviously, but it was, you know, on the vcr down in the box fort that I built in my dad's house. Like you know, I'm in a bunch of boxes and there's a tv, yeah, and I've got the star wars cassette that we picked up at the video store and it's the first time I've seen it. Yeah, like I mean vivid memories, or like over in the corner and he's watching like a fight and I'm watching star wars for the sixth time?
Speaker 1:Yeah, like those are my memories of it and very fond memories.
Speaker 2:Uh, I just remember the first time, yeah, watching the first three and then watching the prequels a couple of years later. Yeah, Um, I remember, you know, getting together with a bunch of friends to go see the third one or whatever. Yeah, um, getting together with a bunch of friends to go see the third one or whatever. Yeah, um, the second one. But like I don't see that, as maybe I'm just not, as like I don't have as much of a romantic, it could be yeah, yeah, Just your.
Speaker 3:You know the, the, the emotional and biochemical response when you watch those things, just certain ones may not go to such a deep place. And there's certainly movies from my childhood.
Speaker 2:It's funny though, because I, I sorry, I'm not trying to completely hijack this, but like I love like you can ask anybody that knows me I mean, I love to highlight experiences with I call them like memory captures. Yeah, so, whether that's taste, smell, sound, yep. So like we were, um, I was hiking with a couple of buddies of mine and, and, um, yellowstone is first time I've been to Yellowstone, or maybe it was, is it the Yellowstone or Teton? But anyways, we were there and we're hiking, and one of my buddies was like, can we not listen to music? And I was like that's fine, but I love to listen to music in moments like this because it allows me to revisit it at any time. That's right, whatever emotions I'm feeling right now, it gives me an access point to these emotions. And same thing with, you know, whiskey, or with smells, or with good food of like some kind of taste. I love capturing memories, so it is funny that I'm not as nostalgic necessarily, cause I do like, like that. That's essentially captured memory, right.
Speaker 3:Well, maybe you know and I don't know if it happens for you on a similar or even um same level you know, for me, when I watch one of these old movies, especially in the theater, you know it could be that an album that you were listening to during you know an experience, whether it was a hiking trip or a pivotal time in your life, you know one year in college or whatever it was that those are, you know transport you through time when you listen to them and you can kind of hear the leaves rustling, you can smell the. You know the fire burning. You can. You know whatever. I have that the. You know the fire burning. You can. You know whatever, um, I have that uh, we my wife and I were just talking about it this song called uh, I think it's Mount mountains beyond mountains, um, from the arcade fires album suburbs.
Speaker 3:And like every time I hear that song or that album, I'm immediately in my Mazda driving up the two to go to Pasadena or back to the Apple store, because that set, that album, was on repeat. Yeah, now, does it induce like tears and all that stuff? I don't think so, because the mechanisms of a movie are so all encompassing for triggering emotion, from the score to the sound, to the moving image.
Speaker 3:of course, that chemistry, uh, sometimes literally with film print um.
Speaker 3:Combined is such a I use this term fondly an assault on your emotions that it and I agree with that completely, whereas just a an album it will transport me in time, but it's rare unless it's a a soundtrack to a movie like the Henry V soundtrack Great movie, by the way. Kenneth Branagh, my favorite Shakespeare, play Henry V Speaking of Thane of Cawdor, which is Macbeth. That soundtrack is the score, has got to be one of the all-time great scores for a movie. And it has extra meaning to me because I attach it to my dad my dad's dead, so when I listen to it there's connections there or whatever. So movie scores do something.
Speaker 2:I agree, Movies capture, and I mean this is part of the reason why I love great films so much.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But yeah, I don't necessarily get the idea of a sequel. Yeah, unless there's still a story to be told. Absolutely, godfather 2, there was still a story to be. I like that's. I know this is like the yeah, but like there was a story to be told, it was a saga. It's one of. You know, it's one of the best films because there was still that character wasn't done yet.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And we needed to see the rest of that. Godfather, three less of a story to be told. Right. It falls off a little bit. Yeah, Like I don't necessarily see cause with me. I've seen, I think of. It's a Wonderful Life. Yeah, when you just laid out that description, I've watched that movie for you know, 25 years in a row. That movie killed me.
Speaker 2:And like that is every time you cry at the end. Audrey, every year we make a thing of it. She's you know cue Audrey crying. We go see we see it in the theater every year. There's so many memories I can access whatever, but it's like I don't want to see. It's a Wonderful Life 2.
Speaker 3:I have no interest in that 100% Like that is, or a remake of it? Right, it's missing the point. Like because?
Speaker 2:the, the. The point is is that that is an complete it's done. It's done, leave it alone and you can go back and watch. And that's kind of how I feel, like I almost wish and I understand, like there is this weird obsession that our culture has with continuing stories, even if they're completely fabricated outside of the original essence of the idea.
Speaker 2:But I just don't understand the idea of, like we're gonna pick up where we left off and, you know, continue this person's story come, get all the nostalgia it's like, because with me it's just like, why not, instead of making jurassic park 5, just rebroadcast the original jurassic park for a full summer run?
Speaker 3:repertory theater and I and I actually wish I wish that was what was happening, that they were taking their old titles and they were doing even a limited release nationally.
Speaker 2:You and I have talked about this before in cinema of like I want to see I mean, we literally try to do this with a cassavetes film yeah, in 2020. Like I want to see these amazing films taken source material. Take it and give me another take on it. Yeah, like, do that, don't change it. And like some films do that there's re-releases and things like that.
Speaker 3:But like, give me another, and you mean like a reboot or are they taking the same property and do a whole different thing with it again?
Speaker 2:Yeah, kind of like you know, I think I mean that would be more interesting than a sequel.
Speaker 3:Than a sequel, right Because?
Speaker 2:then, okay, podcast great synchronicity talking about shakespeare, yeah, and I've seen, yes, you see, you go to see shakespeare performances. I've seen shakespeare performances where the actors and the director of the, of the, whatever the theater company, whoever's putting it on, right, I don't. I'm like, did you read? Right, do you understand?
Speaker 2:what is like what shakespeare is saying here. Do you understand? Like, do you know what this is? Or are you just reciting the? And I've seen them, where I'm completely moved, completely moved Films. You can watch the same play performed by three different directors and cast and it's a completely different feel. So why aren't we doing that with these more contemporary titles and instead of giving me Star Wars the 40th version of it?
Speaker 3:New episode comes out June 4th. The Acolyte Link in the show notes Give me.
Speaker 2:I want to see what the source material. How strong is the source material?
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:If it's revisited by a complete new set of artistic intention, what do we get right, you know?
Speaker 3:and I think sometimes for some of these properties like star wars, there's so much risk in mishandling it um, that even disney, I think and let's not spend a bunch of time on this, but even even Disney is sort of like recalibrating their approach to it. Now they aren't going to, you know, sort of like cave to the, to the um, to the whims of the, a very vocal minority or even part of the fan base. That I do think is toxic. But there are a lot of people in the fan base that are are going. We don't think you understand how much weight and mass star wars has and it's it's something that you have to be really careful with that.
Speaker 3:you're not just sort of making star war stories, especially with legacy characters, just sort of on a whim. There's a real care that has to go into that, and they're in a hard spot with that property, because I think a sort of a sister property in a sense that's so coveted is the Back to the Future trilogy, and Bob Zemeckis, bob Gale, even Spielberg are all like as long as we are alive, this movie will never get sequels, it will never get a reboot, it'll never get remade, nothing. Now they do have a musical on Broadway. I don't know if it's still running right now, but they did have a musical that came came of it, which is a little bit of a different story, but I am glad with that property. Different story, but I am glad with that property. I don't want there to be a new version of back to the future. I don't want there to be a sequel, but I don't want 60 years from now. Does that hurt the original though?
Speaker 2:like, because I feel like that's almost more of a cultural like mirage than that. Like you know, if it was open source and anybody could do whatever with it. Like it doesn't, it's not reductive to the original. You know, the original still exists in its full capacity and I think maybe that's a lesson we need to learn as a culture of separating. Like the first star Wars film is always its own asset, Like it's always it can be viewed.
Speaker 2:I can put it on right now and watch it, and I shouldn't be judging that through the lens of well, there's this, this and this, and I get it. You're, you're protecting properties. There's like larger systems at play, but I think the way to view art is like you know, I'm not. I'm not going in and like oh man there was a, a terrible. You know I, just I, I listened to. Uh, you know, I don't know your anything.
Speaker 3:Your argument is completely sound and I completely agree with you. I, I, I want other artists, filmmakers, storytellers, to be able to take those worlds and explore them in new ways. Here's where it gets a little problematic in my experience with some of these properties, especially when the studios who own the intellectual rights and all that stuff. There's something different when and this kind of relates to Star Wars and this would apply to Back to the Future and other franchises. There's something different when it's like canon.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Versus someone playing in that playground and making something that doesn't have the stakes of it being like canon Now we might be assigning meaning to something as being canon. Like you guys, just settle down, yeah, settle down, but there's something that hurts yeah when luke skywalker is handled the way he was in that movie.
Speaker 3:For me, yeah, um, knowing that, that's it yeah it's not going to be another way because, and you know, obviously they can have fan films and you know all that stuff and that's wonderful, but it's there's such a like an officialness to it that is hard for maybe people on the outside looking part of that, understand, but it's just like I'm probably speaking like blasphemy to no, no fans.
Speaker 2:But like it's part of that, just like maybe that's the actor's responsibility to just be like i'm'm not going to be involved in this I wish he would have, cause he tried like hell to tell the to to push back from what from what I understand.
Speaker 2:I think Godfather is an interesting example, right Like you have. You have the first two films and then you have the third where they couldn't get the. You know they couldn't get the right cast, they couldn't, but now people like Some people really like the third. I think the third is fine.
Speaker 2:But, does that movie not, does that not living up to one and two take away from one and two's absolute greatness. No, not at all In my opinion and I'm like, yeah, I don't know. I just you said, settle down in like a minor lease, that's kind of how I feel.
Speaker 3:No 100%. I'm just like settle down, I get it, it's a rationality to it Because these are properties and we're viewing it through the lens of our lifespan right now too.
Speaker 2:But we're seeing this happen right now where IP is, patents are expiring, IP is being passed into the public domain from pieces that, like I mean within the reasonable range of just like us doing this podcast, reasonable range like there's going to be some significant IP that passes in Absolutely. There's going to be some significant patents that expire and IP that passes into public domain. You already seen it with great Gatsby, I think, recently passed in a public domain there was mickey mouse and they made the slasher film, the steamboat winnie the pooh.
Speaker 2:Um, I mean, it's like put it out there like let people use these properties because, yeah, I just I don't, I don't know, I think and I don't, and I don't, I don't know, and I don't, and I don't, and I don't disagree with that at all. Um and then. But part of me is also like but come on, let's just develop some new properties. Let's stop acting like we need to continue to iterate on this. This, I mean. I.
Speaker 3:I tried, with one of my spec screenplays from, uh, almost 10 years ago, which is crazy to crazy to say, but it was a what would have been considered a low budget, big budget movie uh, cause it was contained and all that stuff. But I tried writing a movie that would be, um, you know, a new sort of sci-fi action movie. That would have been, you know, very much drawing on my love of the thing and Terminator movies not that they have the same things, but you just reminded me.
Speaker 2:I told audrey that tonight we would watch terminator oh shit, one and two, she hasn't seen them.
Speaker 3:Oh man, what a good double feature.
Speaker 2:Uh, great night just turned into a better night so I tried, you know, writing a movie.
Speaker 3:I, I don't think, I, I, I, I. I'm glad the movie didn't. The gatekeepers rejected it because I don't think I wrote it from the, the, the final execution was connected to the place where it came from. It turned into something else through all the different drafts and iterations and all that stuff. But you know know, part of why I think gatekeepers may have rejected it was that what it would take to invest in the film, to make it and then to sort of teach everybody what it was through the marketing, versus a sequel or a reboot where they don't have to teach you what it is. The states.
Speaker 2:You know what it is there? Yeah, so you already you already have a baseline understanding. So it's a shortcut to uh converting people from maybe not seeing it to seeing it, which speaks to the larger cultural idea, though if we're just looking for shortcuts instead of doing the work to like.
Speaker 3:Well, all of these things took work to get people into the and it speaks to the uh to me, the evolution of so much of what's made at the major studios in hollywood to being all from a place of commerce. You talked about the godfather, even jaws in 1975, some of these other films that ended up being sort of blockbusters, that that really ushered in this focus on box office results over. Let's make a really great movie and then be shocked that it is running in theaters for a year or more.
Speaker 2:This might age terribly. Do you talk about dating things, dating or whatever, and this might be the worst take ever, but I am interested to see how Megalopolis yeah, me too when we're sitting at this table a year from now yeah, we're talking about you know what the same industry like? What is the industry? Whatever what you know? I'm interested of what that film's impact will be. And if it was just like oh, this is a hype thing, I would understand. Yeah, like, but you the?
Speaker 2:the track record is there, if anybody was going to do something that was like hey, uh, this is my swan song, I'm passing this torch or I'm laying down this challenge the next generation pick it up or don't. It's here yeah it would be coppola I mean, he redefined film five times.
Speaker 2:Yeah, at four times what so you had godfather one, godfather two conversation, dual oscar year, yeah, apocalypse now. Yeah, I mean he's just. And then his daughter has, you know, has had an amazing career. Like absolutely, if there's anybody who kind of is, you can't tell the story of cinema without, he's one of them.
Speaker 3:Well, who could break this? Zeroing in on commerce and nostalgia and low risk.
Speaker 2:He has the reputation, he has the name value, he has the reputation, he has the name value, he has the. I mean, he just has everything of, like you know, I don't think somebody could come in from left, of course, somebody could come in from left field, sure, like you know. And then he has this idea like, oh, I want to spend $120 million of my own money to make a film with, like this experimental style of cinema that you know I'm pioneering, and maybe it's not some crazy like, maybe it's, but you don't hear a lot of filmmakers looking to what the future is going to be. What? What is the future look like, the future of this medium, what is that? That? And so I'm excited to hear a master who's done it, yeah, who's made maybe four of the greatest films of all time.
Speaker 2:I'm excited to hear what he has to say about. This is the future. This is what I want, the I. I think the future could look like, yeah, and just get other people talking about like what the future? But yeah, you talk about breaking that mold. And you know, I I sent you the one review that got me pumped, where I was like this has no commercial. This is the most expensive film with zero commercial ambitions I've ever seen.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and like that gets me pumped, like same here and then you look at the letterbox and it's just like a square, I mean, it is like as many zero star reviews as there are five star reviews and like all of them between. So I'm just like, I'm like okay, because I, you know, you think back to some of his, some of it, like I'm sure I would what, what was, what did apocalypse? Now, if that was in a letterbox world, what would that look like?
Speaker 3:yeah, what would the?
Speaker 2:godfather look like. What would the conversation look like?
Speaker 3:like, I don't know yeah, I'd be curious, you know, I don't know how this take my age super poorly.
Speaker 3:I don't know how polarizing those movies were when they came out. I could see maybe the conversation being a bit more polarizing than apocalypse now and the godfather. Um, you know, it's tough because I feel like Megalopolis, just from watching the trailer, is just more bold, maybe a little bit more experimental, maybe a little bit more out there, and I think you get a little bit of that between apocalypse now and the godfather, the godfather and I hope this doesn't sound um, this doesn't make me sound stupid, to be honest, but it's just like straight up storytelling. It is just a family and this happens and he does this, and then this person's betrayed and this person's murdered. It's, it's. It's a little simpler to digest.
Speaker 2:I think there's, like the themes are. The themes are strong, though Like power corrupting. You have this idea of like generational drop off, of like, you know, one generation loses the ambition that the previous generation carried.
Speaker 3:I think there's these ideas of like family conflict, 100, like there's I think there's deeper themes at work in the movie and I'm not trying to make it sound like the godfather is a simplistic movie.
Speaker 2:Oh, no for, no for sure, but I mean, I would even give you though with what you just like you watch Godfather 2, it's a different level.
Speaker 3:The writing's a different level.
Speaker 2:Yeah, In terms of like you talk about, like Shakespearean yeah, Like, yeah.
Speaker 3:I would agree with that and I would say Apocalypse Now has a lot more, much more poetic. It's much more like at first glance, like I'm not quite sure how this relates. You know these moments like Duvall's fixation on surfing for like 25, 30 minutes of the movie.
Speaker 2:Who's the writer for Apocalypse? Now, Because I know he was. I just remember he's either watching a documentary or reading like something about. But I mean he was like like I know he could, he could just flow into styles of writers like he could do melville, or he could do like if you can just flow into melville, right, you're talented yeah right, you're a talented writer like, but but for me, ultimately, if, if you show me Godfather on VHS and Apocalypse Now on VHS, not to destroy the original aspect ratios of those films.
Speaker 2:You've been flying through the.
Speaker 3:I think I'm going to go for Apocalypse Now, just because. Is it because?
Speaker 2:it's more of an open experience.
Speaker 3:Yeah, there's stuff that you just kind of. It's just not as easy to nail down. It's a vibe, it's more poetic's.
Speaker 2:Those are the most rewatchable.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean I and and that you know, and my hope is is that megalopolis is evocative of that. My biggest fear with that movie is it's very didactic that it's going to be hitting me over the head with what we're doing wrong and what it's going to cost us, and I and I'm just very worried.
Speaker 2:I don't think it will, I don't think I could be wrong but I don't think it will be.
Speaker 3:I don't.
Speaker 2:I, I and I mean trust me, you know, my radar is as high on that as my, like.
Speaker 3:I mean, I think there's even yeah there's are like, oh, that's fine, and I'm like I fuck that movie like, but I will if that movie has that sort of and that's why.
Speaker 2:That's why I, that's why I kind of said like hey, this could age poorly. Because there's a chance, because similar vibe from the trailer yeah where I'm, like I could watch this yeah and I might be like this was the. I hated this I did everything about this, but no, I mean, I'm with you. I think anything with a more poetic nature has more of a runway. All of the movies that I love revisiting typically mean more I mean, but it's a Wonderful Life.
Speaker 2:We just talked about that Like that is as straightforward as it gets.
Speaker 3:I know there's something about something like. It's a Wonderful Life like Star Wars, these movies that, the archetypes and the connection to our primitive emotional state, and then the music.
Speaker 2:See, I would make the argument for Godfather that it kind of fits into that with this idea that there are a little bit of like and, I would agree, a little bit more of a thematically rich yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 3:But with the Godfather you've got it all too. You've got the performances, You've got the soundtrack, the music, all of that stuff. I mean, I was just watching on VHS, of course, Once Upon a Time in the West. Have you watched that Ennio Morricone documentary. I haven't, I haven't. I'm like big dude I was watching the trailer and I'm like like, like feeling, all the feelings, especially once upon a time in the west, which is a movie I came to late in life.
Speaker 2:Um, and you know, it's interesting because, like those, like those leone westerns almost let they they introduce the a more poetic quality to the filmmaking than what they almost just they do. The western it's a pretty straightforward western. I mean it is good guy, bad guy good guy, bad guy medium guy.
Speaker 2:All the archetypes are there and you know, in the good, bad, ugly trilogy like you've got clint eastwood just being the badass, but through his how he used, how they use the camera, how they use just let let this breathe yes, the time, the patience introduces a poetic quality. That that does it doesn't exist in other Westerns.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and it's sort of like to me, it's like a clear poet, poet. I can't say it. Poeticism, it's just poetry. Yeah, yeah, a clear poetry. And what I love too about Apocalypse Now is it's more ambiguous, it's more nebulous, it's more vibey, it's more sort of like.
Speaker 2:I don't know what this is, but I'm like apocalypse now is more like whitman, whereas like, whereas you know, once upon a time in the west, is more like bukowski. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 3:So, like you know, there's just such a an appreciation of that and again, like star wars, and it's a wonderful life like they hit on those emotional cues and the tools of the filmmaking from the music. I mean it's a wonderful life just being about christmas and then you're watching it around christmas time right which is a whole other highly um heightened sensitive vibe to be in and it's.
Speaker 2:I mean, is you talk about a masterpiece of screenwriting? Yeah, and just like it is. I mean at the time, it is 100%. Like it is buttoned up.
Speaker 3:It is done with craft and skill at an extraordinarily high level, especially because it's doing something very difficult it's bridging three generations of this person's life. Yeah, frank.
Speaker 2:Capra's two shots too. Yeah, like I don't know. Pretty good, I don't know.
Speaker 3:Pretty good. I've gone on a little like.
Speaker 2:I've literally just those are nice.
Speaker 3:He's a master of that.
Speaker 2:Master of the two shot.
Speaker 3:Yeah. So those movies connect up to those real powerful emotions in us, whereas a movie like the Godfather goes to some deeper layers. And I think also not that it's a wonderful life holds up a mirror to the darker aspects of our personality. Part of what gets me so emotional about it's a wonderful life is how I can often get caught up in the business of life and take for granted the people that are around me, especially my wife and my kids. And that movie, after having kids, hits on a whole other level because of you know the similarities between us. You know perception of struggling financially. You know his hopes and dreams of exploring the world and living the life of a National Geographic explorer, all that stuff. And same thing with Star Wars. So much of that is connected to not only the archetypal characters but archetypal emotions. And what I love again about the Godfather, it starts going under those layers and then Apocalypse. Now for me goes even even farther below apocalypse.
Speaker 2:Now borders on like 2001 yeah, in terms of just like you project, like here's a canvas project, what you, what you see. But I think it's interesting what you just said about it's a wonderful life and um, star wars, where it's like archetypal, but it evolves. Yeah, time it's like, I mean, it's I don't know excuse, like the, the corny metaphors, just what happens to be right here. But it's like time changes it. There are new flavors that are introduced. You should catch something you didn't catch before you see something new, or you just process it through a completely. I've processed that film now over the course of, yeah, what, like two and a half decades, like yeah there are lenses.
Speaker 2:There are many different lenses that I've viewed that film through and, yeah, you might go five years where you're like, okay, I've seen it yeah and then suddenly the sixth year, it's like you had some kind of life changing event or occurrence that happened to you and it's like it's almost the movie is almost a mirror of wow, this was a significant year because I can.
Speaker 3:It's different to me now.
Speaker 2:And so it's almost like. It's almost like you're. You know, you're just marking off like the old height things on the door, absolutely. And to me I You're like, wow, I grew.
Speaker 3:For me. Every year I watch the Shining and have new experiences as an adult and as the layers of the onion get peeled back on me as I understand myself and my faults and strengths. Same thing with these movies I'm peeling back these layers of this onion. I mean, I just watched the Shining again this past year and had such a profound revelation of what I think it's about, or part of it's about.
Speaker 2:It's gonna change so much when you rewatch it next too, because of all of the reading that we've done on hauntology and that movie being such a great representation of the essence of hauntology when I think about hauntology as a concept, I think of the Shining and I think of.
Speaker 2:Tarkovsky. I mean in film nobody's done it better than that movie, and so it's going to change again for you, and that's why it's. If anybody was ever like why is this? I don't get it, I don't it's like. That's why it is a living, breathing organism.
Speaker 3:It is and it's to me it's just like how is this even possible? You know, again I can watch star Wars over and over again and kind of see new things and feel some new feelings. But you know, I'm like I don't really, I'm not really seeing this movie as something different every time I watch it, especially as it relates to me as a person and my experience is life and the greater experience that we're all having in the world and and and this movie, the shining, just keeps revealing these things more and more, and that's part of why I'm gravitating towards Apocalypse Now, because I'm having similar experience with that movie, literally going into the heart of darkness every time I watch it.
Speaker 3:To mine it for more material, and first time I watched it, which was in my undergrad I watched Apocalypse Now and then I was in a documentary class and they showed us heart of darkness. Hearts of darkness, um. I never read um the Joseph Conrad novel. I think I started it and I ended up not finishing it.
Speaker 2:We should like book club that thing, because I've, I've, I have literally picked it up at Jackson street probably three weeks ago.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And then I put it back cause I was like you're not going to read that, you've got too many books on the yeah, and I've held off on getting new books too, because I have so much to go through.
Speaker 3:but um, uh, yeah, you know, uh, I literally watched that movie and the first time, and and I'm like the horror, the horror. Like what the hell is this? This is dumb. Like where's this? Where's how come the death star didn't explode? What? Are we doing here? Dude, now that I've watched that movie or had it on in the background dozens of times.
Speaker 2:What's like? It's like that, that is that is the. That is peak art. For if if I were to define what, what is art? You? That movie teaches you something new about yourself every time you watch it.
Speaker 3:That's exactly right, and that's what great art does and the shining teaches me something new about yourself every time you watch it. That's exactly right, and that's what great art does. And the shining teaches me something new about myself that I'm terrified of. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:And I mean and I think you're going to go back and watch it through- this through this this newer lens and it's going to teach you something like, yeah, even broader, because suddenly you've like unpeeled everything to where it is. It's no longer a commentary on yourself as like a self, yeah, or like an entity, but it is.
Speaker 3:It is a commentary on, like, cultures moving beyond and yeah, returning and to me really the high water for what a true horror movie can do. Now, I love a good, just sort of slasher movie or something that's just a little bit more on the surface, entertaining horror, as much as that can be. That movie really holds a mirror up to some people's darker impulses, especially people, I think, who are ambitious.
Speaker 2:Well, would you classify Zone of of interest as a horror movie?
Speaker 3:I wouldn't. I wouldn't put it like if I was organizing that movie on the genre wall. I would not put it in the horror section. Is there an argument that it toes into that genre? A hundred percent and it is horrific.
Speaker 2:Um, it's also interesting too, because now reading and this is sorry non sequitur, but reading the Coppola book about live cinema techniques, live cinema and its techniques in thinking about zone of interest that was integrating that live cinema Absolutely, and we didn't even think about it until yeah, I had no idea.
Speaker 3:It felt like that, but I tried not to spend too much time going. How are they doing this?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I wonder if Glazer and Coppola are connected, or I wonder if it was just like happened.
Speaker 3:Because I did. I was trying to be careful not to just follow sort of the technical stuff. But there were a couple cuts where, like the dog moved and the cut between angles was perfectly matched with the dog.
Speaker 2:And I'm like well, he's got, he's got, he's got to have four or five cameras running on this. Yeah, you guys brought that up when we were getting drinks after I was like what do you?
Speaker 3:what well, it just it wouldn't have. I wouldn't have noticed it if it wasn't for that cut. And I, yeah, you know having you know obviously what I cut. I'm not cutting narrative, but I've done enough of it where, when something cuts perfectly like the dog's body is in the same orientation between camera angles, I'm like you never see that. Yeah, because you've got the old thing where there's an over-the-shoulder between two people and if you watch the person who's not talking you'll see their mouth moving. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Or like they had a scarf on in that last take. Yeah, there might be a little continuity stuff.
Speaker 3:But, like you know, there's all that kind of stuff going on, those little continuity blips that you know you really have to have a a close eye for. So anyway, but yeah, so I was like, oh gosh, they're filming this with multiple cameras all at once, and then I'm you know, I didn't go into it but I'm like. So they have like four, four or five cameras on tripods filming this, like that's interesting.
Speaker 2:But getting back to this idea of, yeah, films feeding you.
Speaker 3:Absolutely.
Speaker 2:Like.
Speaker 3:I definitely Thanks for bringing me back on track.
Speaker 2:No, no, no you were making a point and I interrupted with the stupid non sequitur of the live cinema and I wanted to. I'm trying to find where we were because I wanted to hear you.
Speaker 3:Mostly we just talked about the horror movie and how and how, the shining for me as I peeled the layers of the onion and each time sort of developed a newer and more profound understanding, especially because there's lots of similarities, I think, between my trajectory and trying to be a writer, and and and sort of the arts, if you will with Jack Torrance and the struggles that he has with focusing on his work while still earning a living and having a family, his narcissism, his issues.
Speaker 2:Matt started throwing a lacrosse ball at the wall in the studio and I was a little concerned.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and yeah, it terrified me. Uh, you know, and we don't have to go into it too much, but just seeing, just seeing that there are definitely times where I'm making stuff and my family gets in the way. Um, I'm in my studio filming a YouTube video today and I had to make sure that I told my wife and my daughter. I'm like I'm going to be filming a video and I just want to try to get through it without any interruptions, because if they walk upstairs you can hear it really loudly on the floor and it just messes up my focus and concentration.
Speaker 2:just like when Wendy comes in to talk to Jack while he's typing whenever you see me typing and there's, there's almost like a frustration too of and this is really interesting about the shining that and I actually weird cause this happened this morning. Yeah, so in the shining part of the thing I see is like he never achieved the vision of himself that he had in his head, and so you live with that over time and it will deteriorate you.
Speaker 2:And um, this morning I was reading Steve Martin's autobiography and it's the title is born standing up. I'm only like a little bit into it, probably a quarter of the way through it. It's phenomenal. Got you know, you, you have to check it out. I recommend anybody watching. Check it out. Um, but he talks about his dad and his relationship with his dad. I love steve martin. I love steve martin's comedy.
Speaker 3:Yeah, the jerk is. We found seminal movie we found the.
Speaker 2:oh the jerk is great. We found the tape at the store in Madison County and yeah, now I've got it in the truck.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, that's right.
Speaker 2:In the book, though, he talks about his dad and at first his dad was kind of like always a little cold and whatever. But as time went on his dad got very cold and detached and like not super like abusive, but kind of like emotionally abusive maybe. And there were, there were a couple of like instances, one instance particular, but he talks about his dad. Always wanted to be an actor.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And he never did it because of his family. And Steve Martin attributed that to like that coldness, to a resentment that he started to have towards Steve and his mother and his sister. Yeah, and it was very, it became very evident over time Like, yeah, at least that's how he lays it out in the book that like that resentment and so like that's a big thing, right, you start to resent the people you care most about because you, you know if you, if you're not succeeding, you might attribute that to yeah.
Speaker 2:And that I mean the shining. It's just a way, I don't know. That was a connection that I just made, but yeah, that's, that's absolutely what I see when I watch the shining. Yeah, so that resentment, like he's just taking it to 10. Well, you know, you know, I think um, but then you can also see it completely as a ghost story of like ghosts infiltrated, like generational trauma and things like that. There's just that's what makes it great. There's no one interpretation but.
Speaker 3:Well, and I know you know let's roll our eyes or take a drink every time I referenced the line from Mad Men, but I really see him as uh sort of, um, the result of doing what's expected of you versus what you want. And I think you know, with him getting the teaching job and having a wife and a son and all that, there might be some decisions that he made of what was expected of him. Maybe he had had a long relationship with Wendy and he felt like, um, you know, it's my duty to propose marriage.
Speaker 3:I love the psycho analysis of Jack Torrance I could spend all day doing it, um, and he's pursuing a career in writing because he knows at the end of it, if he's as successful as he thinks he's going to be, then he can essentially have the life of the Jack Torrance that we see in the photograph.
Speaker 2:But why does he kill him? Because when all obstacles are taken away and he's forced to focus on his work, does he have to confront his own inability?
Speaker 3:Because ultimately, I think, he's just not a writer, ultimately, I think he's using writing to get to the life of the caretaker at the Overlook Hotel in the 20s parties and drinking and having a great time. I think that's. The height of his needs as a human being is access to alcohol, being completely unencumbered, meeting women and being with them. All of that stuff is what his truth is, what he feels his truth is, and the overlook helps him achieve that, and that was a really profound takeaway for me. Now, the difference you talked about the Steve Martin thing where his dad wanted to be an actor and maybe got cold to his family and I think Steve at one point in the book even references.
Speaker 2:I asked my mom or my mom was always she appreciated a more quality lifestyle.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:That's not exactly how he described it, but you know she the finer things Right and he's like so. I always thought that my dad had to give up because of that, but then he's like. Later in life my mom clarified I always wanted him to be a star. Yeah. He was afraid to take the and yeah.
Speaker 3:So for, for me, when I watch the shining or hear you talk about and we heard, we hear this all the time where a parent had aspirations to be famous or rich or, um, you know, uh, famous in an artistic way versus famous in a famous way, and they sort of stumbled into a family or maybe had kids when they weren't planning on it, that sort of thing. And then responsibility kicked in. For me, ever since I was a young young man 14, 15 years, not a young man, but a young kid, 14, 15 years old for me the family thing was always the first priority. It was to meet someone I can spend the rest of my life with and have kids at some point. And for me, while I am incredibly driven and desiring of, uh, you know, success with what I do artistically, I'm not like Jack Torrance where I would want the family to sort of hide.
Speaker 3:You know, go to the curtains of the theater while I do all my stuff. Or you know, like, hey, I'm going to go to this party all weekend. You guys, you know, just I want to. You know, they're my top priority, um, and that's something that makes me feel good when you talk about the Steve Martin thing, or the Jack Torrance thing, that that exists because, for whatever reason and I distinctly remember in acting school talking to some of my fellow actors and I said you meet the love of your life and you have your career you have to pick one because she can't go with you or he can't go with you, or this or that or whatever, and they were all like career and I was like no way.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the love of your life, yeah, and I think you know some of them are very successful.
Speaker 3:You know, been on TV shows, movies, stand-up comedy, all this stuff. And while I am successful, I am not at their level and they may be perfectly happy and content all that stuff and I feel like they're missing anything and that's wonderful, that's great.
Speaker 2:And you hope they are. But I feel like a lot of times like one of these two things is more superficial than the other.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:We are the wrong people to be giving this opinion, because there is like a level of kind of security on that end of things. Yeah, and like a level of, I think there's like a mutual understanding. It's like you know, this is obviously a biased side of the argument.
Speaker 3:Yeah understanding.
Speaker 2:It's like I you know this is obviously a biased side of the argument, yeah, but I do think that like, yeah, with me I mean similar of like I've always thought there's some things that are more important in life than others.
Speaker 2:Does that mean that I just want to, like, I want to make things that I feel that are meaningful, and like, I want to make sure that I have an outlet to, you know, kind of use my voice or whatever that is. Or, like you know, just carry on, carry forward these things that I appreciate so much, that have given so much to me, like I don't want those to fade away. I want to do whatever I can to keep those, those, those moving, moving forward, and I want to introduce future generations, whether that's just my kids or whether that's, you know, those moving, moving forward. And I want to introduce future generations, whether that's just my kids or whether that's a group of people. But, yeah, there there's certain things where it's like, like, like, if feel like. Most of the time, you, you don't hear people that are looking back in their life and giving a summation of their regrets saying, man, I just, I never was successful. It's usually like, man, I didn't.
Speaker 2:You know, the love of my life might've passed me by, or you know, I never had had children or like there's certain things that I feel like we are wired as humans to that they're just more important from a human level.
Speaker 3:Absolutely.
Speaker 3:And I, um my mom told me she doesn't remember this and I'm like I'm pretty sure I'm not fabricating this, but um she told me yeah, she told me, um, about an interaction she had with her dad, my grandpa um, at the hospital as his health was declining, and all that he said, you know, a little bit weepy, a little bit, you know, emotional. He said I wish I would have spent more time with you kids. Now, my grandpa wasn't, like you know, a famous actor or you know whatever, but he was always working on stuff, always doing something with the house, helping his sons at their, you know, auto mechanic shop or some kind of big project or whatever that didn't mechanic shop or some kind of big project or whatever that didn't where he wasn't spending more dedicated time with his kids while they were kids. Yeah, and I mean, I think about that phrase so much. Actually, just in a, I got a composition notebook the other day and I was, you know, reading these books and it just like just a complete, like avalanche of ideas and inspiration as I'm reading them and I'm like jotting down sort of like poetic stuff or lyrics.
Speaker 3:I don't even know what it is, I'm just writing as these words come into my mind and I titled the piece you know, I wish I would have spent more time with you kids and, oddly enough, another essay that I wrote or sort of a thing that I put out there on this composition book, speaking of hauntology and, uh, technopoly and the books that we're reading. The title was you've always been the caretaker, and it was a piece that I'm still going to work on it and figure out what it is. But it was, you know, hearkening back to uh the shining, but yeah, I, uh the shining, but yeah, I mean, I agree with you, it was getting a little sentimental and all that stuff was sort of like these these cliches of um, you know, um, family is the most important thing, and you know all of that stuff.
Speaker 3:But you know, I certainly know that at the end, at the end of my life if I'm not achieving some level of success or artistic fulfillment that I think that matches in reality with what I think I want or am capable of in my mind. Um, I'm going to set that aside when I look at my kids and my relationship with my wife, and that I worked hard to have a successful marriage that wasn't just sort of like, hey, we survived being together for 50, 60 years. You know we had fun shirt. Certainly we had our conflicts, but that we were always in love with each other. There was always a romantic element, there was always flirtation, there was always, um, you know, you know elements of romance, but then also elements of like, getting down to business, how do we do this with money?
Speaker 3:You have a different approach. I have a different approach. What decisions do we make for our kids? What do we, what do we do to help them move forward, without handing it all to them on a silver platter, all of that stuff?
Speaker 3:If I can, you know, look back on that and not say to myself I wish I would have spent more time with you kids, which to me encompasses so much stuff. It's time with my wife, or I wish I would have been more present, or whatever, um, you know, ultimately I think if I can say that to myself, that'll be a big win. Yeah, and if it's like, oh, I wish I would have traveled more, okay, I'm fine with you know, wishing some of those smaller things, but I never want to look back and go, I think I will always feel like man I would kill for one more day with Goldie when she was four. Yeah, like I would give anything for that. But I'm at peace with what I gave to being present when she was four years old. I had to work, I had to make content, I had to go out and record podcasts with you on a Friday night.
Speaker 3:I had to do that stuff, but I never did it so much like the shining where, if they walked into the room, I was ready to kill them.
Speaker 2:When I always think about like this is like, like we get to sit here and do this, Like this is absolutely, like this is great, this is a choice, and like we sit here and we talk about things, we work on projects and we do we like about that stuff like I am to the max passionate about that stuff but it's like, yeah, there are other things that matter more, yeah, than like it just, and you know, maybe that is to some people that is seen as a you know they don't see it that way, right, but yeah, I think that's something that we both kind of have a mutual understanding of.
Speaker 2:And yeah, I mean other people may not feel that way, yeah, and I want to make sure it's clear, totally open to feel that way.
Speaker 3:Yeah, this is not the only way, I don't want it to sound like there's any subtext in here of like, if you're someone that isn't wanting to have a family, or even a spouse, that there's something wrong with you. I don't think that that's a universal path in everybody's life.
Speaker 2:I just knew from a very young age Well, I think, like, like you only get one life, like how this sounds terrible.
Speaker 3:Good, good disclaimer.
Speaker 2:This is going to sound awful. It's going to sound awful. You only get one life, though.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And like you have to choose the things that are most important to you and like you know there's no, I can't sit here and say there is some grand design that is more important, like where this value is held high in a higher regard than this value. You have to decide that for yourself, absolutely, that there might be some kind of intuition that can help guide you through that. But like, if that's not like, if one value isn't as high to you, you have to respect that.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So I mean, yeah, it is what it is. I guess it's like and that sounds terrible. Right, Because anybody who disagrees? With that is going to look at that and be like that's not how I see things, like that there's only one thing, but like there's no, every there's, everybody's entitled to their vision of the world and it'd be a golden afternoon and I remember having the familiar conviction that life was beginning over again with the summer.