Devin Oliver: I See Stars, Coping Through Distraction, Healthy Competition, and Then Vs. Now

Get ready for a killer episode with my good friend, Devin Oliver, frontman of the band I See Stars and the man behind his solo project, shYbeast. With the charisma of a born performer and the wisdom of a seasoned artist, he delves into his life story, tracing his path from an early age with a difficult parent dynamic, to his long and rewarding career in the music industry. Devin brings to light the profound influence of his early musical experiences, the role of rivalry in nurturing talent, and the complex challenges that come with maintaining longevity in a band.

Our conversation goes beyond music, as Devin explores the larger dimensions of his life. He shares his experiences with redefining success, finding personal joy in pursuing fulfillment in what he does daily, and the power of expressing his truth. He underscores the importance of maintaining a balance between mental and physical health amidst the high-stakes and high-stress world of music. If you're a music enthusiast or an aspiring artist, this episode is a goldmine of valuable insights, practical tips, and inspiration.

Our conversation also covers a wide array of topics including his journey from building a dedicated fan base in Michigan, to I See Stars signing their first record deal, to going on several Warped Tours. We also talk a bit about their two new singles Drift and Anomaly. We dive into the influence of raw, unrefined music on the band's choice in sound selection and mixes. We talk about the strategic importance of finding the right mixing engineer for your project based on the sound and vibe you're looking for.

WATCH ON YOUTUBE: https://youtu.be/rq-KGtAuAyY

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GROUNDS FOR SUCCESS LINKS
All Links Here: https://linktr.ee/groundsforsuccess

AUSTIN SELTZER LINKS
All Links Here: https://linktr.ee/Austinseltzer

DEVIN OLIVER LINKS
All Links Here: https://sumerian.lnk.to/anomaly

Transcript

Austin Seltzer: 0:01

Welcome to the Grounds for Success podcast. I'm your host, austin Siltzer. Together we'll unveil the keys to success in the music industry. Join me as I explore my guest's life stories and experiences to uncover practical insights to help you align with your goals more effectively. Hey Copy Drinkers, welcome to the Grounds for Success podcast. I'm Austin Siltzer and I'm a mixing and mastering engineer with over 10 years of experience in the music business. Today, my guest is Devin Oliver. He's the frontman for the band IC Stars, as well as his solo project called Shy Beast.

Austin Seltzer: 0:43

Ic Stars began in 2006 in Michigan and he was a member of the band IC Stars. They are one of, if not the establishing band of, a subgenre called electronic core Sounds like I don't know if everybody uses that term, but it's kind of like a post-hard core rock band that fuses electronic elements. They, in my mind, are really like the establishing band, so I'm stoked to talk to him about that. Ic Stars has honestly been on way more tours than I can count, so I'll just throw in that they played several warped tours. Rest in peace for Warped Tour. We love you so many others but honestly, you can go and Google. It's kind of ridiculous. They played so many shows. They've released six full albums and I really want to highlight that they dropped two recent singles Drift and Anomaly. Anomaly is on the radio. It's their first track that's been on the radio, so I'm stoked for them. The tracks are awesome. Go check them out.

Austin Seltzer: 1:51

Devin produces, plays guitar, plays bass, plays drums, plays synths. He literally does it all. He does everything. So Shy Beast was a way for him to bring all of his elements together. But he also does this for IC Stars as well. I know on the new record he did so much. His hands were on everything. He's just a creative force.

Austin Seltzer: 2:15

We're going to talk about Devin's ability to map out his days, to work on things that fulfill him. I really resonated with this because his goal daily is just to feel great, feel inspired, feel like he's working on something that's fulfilling him in such a way. So we'll dive deep on that. We'll learn about his early life, his dad being a musician, his parents getting a divorce and kind of how that really pushed him closer with his friends, his band, and how his escape was music. So that was, in his formative years, just something that pushed him in the direction of becoming a musician. We'll talk about how co-heating Cambria's Claudio Sanchez is like one of his early inspirations, of course, for his vocals. You can hear that as well as Craig Owens from Chiodos. Both of those had a huge impact on his choice of how he delivers his vocals.

Austin Seltzer: 3:12

We hear about how the musician scene in Michigan was one of comradery but fierce rivalry and how it kind of pushed bands to become the best version of themselves, pushed them to break the envelope, and time and time again you hear this kind of story of businesses that have rivals and both of them help each other rise up and things like that. So we get to hear how that works in a band sense. We also hear the differences in breaking as a new band now versus whenever IC stars came on the scene Obviously hugely different. So it was cool to hear about that and also just like the difficulties of being in a band for so long. You're so close with these people for so long. Of course you have these like quarrels and people have like their idea of what they want and it's hard to all come together.

Austin Seltzer: 4:10

But really ultimately how they're bond is what has created a band that has been able to stand the test of time. I mean they've been around for since 2006. So it's a long time. So I'm stoked for you to hear all of this stuff on this episode with me and Devin. All right, let's get caffeinated. Hi, you can probably like angle it like this, or does that feel natural for you?

Devin Oliver: 4:35

You need to show me that you're popping my podcast, cherry.

Austin Seltzer: 4:39

So where's?

Devin Oliver: 4:39

the mic Right here. I mean it can go wherever you want here.

Austin Seltzer: 4:45

Oh yeah, you sound great out there.

Devin Oliver: 4:47

Do it right here. This feels this sounds good. Well, if I'm looking at you because I want to look you in the eye, this seems right. Yes, do you like how you sound? Yes, so far, so good. Welcome to my podcast. I am your host, devin Oliver, and our word of the day Do we talk about?

Austin Seltzer: 5:12

the word yet, or I mean, if you want to say it sure I'm teaching Austin about the word snafu.

Devin Oliver: 5:20

He's never heard the word snafu before. I haven't. How Well, have you never been in a snafu? I think you made that word up. I didn't actually before. I wrote it on the board. I'm not going to lie. I wanted to make sure I spelt it right, so I googled it and yes, it's very real Snafu.

Austin Seltzer: 5:43

Snafu.

Devin Oliver: 5:44

Yes.

Austin Seltzer: 5:45

Well Devin. Oliver, thank you for coming on the podcast, of course.

Devin Oliver: 5:49

Thanks for having me on my first ever podcast. Yeah, I can't believe that I'm so stoked. I feel like I mean, you got to think like even four years ago, when I last played a show, podcasts were just kind of starting to come to the surface. I feel like, like there wasn't. I just started listening to podcasts a lot over the last four years, you know. So there wasn't like a bunch of people asking for me to be on their podcast when I would tour, or yeah, or just ever in the PR realm of things, so it was just never really something that felt like it existed like it does today, you know. So, yeah, first podcast.

Austin Seltzer: 6:35

Hell yeah, first podcast. And I have to say, shout out to you. You are a lover of coffee, but you were like. I take it with cream. And then I made you some coffee and you're like oh shit.

Devin Oliver: 6:49

It's got a really natural deliciousness that doesn't need to be masked by cream. I feel like some of the coffee. I mean, I love coffee in its raw form, but I love the. It's like peanut butter and jelly. You know I need the coffee and the cream.

Austin Seltzer: 7:08

Yeah.

Devin Oliver: 7:10

But this is doing it for me. I'm liking this black, and you're a black coffee drinker I am. I just don't really drink it in another way. I thought only serial killers drank their coffee black. I mean, look at my room, this could be. This is a dungeon. This might not even be a podcast. You might just be trying to kill me. Why?

Austin Seltzer: 7:29

do you think the walls are black? It's like to mask the blood. Yes, yes, no.

Devin Oliver: 7:34

Actually.

Austin Seltzer: 7:35

I don't think that works, because you just blacklight it.

Devin Oliver: 7:36

I was about to say no, no, we'd find out real quick. Yeah, there would be forensic files all over this place.

Austin Seltzer: 7:43

Yeah, clearly not a serial killer.

Devin Oliver: 7:45

I don't even know that, so yeah, well, I know a lot about you, and you don't have the qualities of a serial killer.

Austin Seltzer: 7:54

I'm glad that I don't match that Dude. So what does a normal day in your life look like right now?

Devin Oliver: 8:02

Right now it looks very different than it did last year. I mean, I feel like my life right now is, even though releasing a record is a lot of work, it feels like right now things are a bit like jazz, like I'm able to kind of take on new projects, kind of go wherever the wind blows me, you know. So obviously you know this, but whoever's watching doesn't. I've been building some stuff from my studio and just kind of taking on some DIY projects, and I feel like I really like this kind of calm side of my life where I can wake up and be like okay, what do I want to do today? What do I want to accomplish as opposed to?

Devin Oliver: 8:54

You know, even a year ago, the idea was finishing the record and getting everything closer to the finish line. So every day, whether it was what I wanted to do or if there was something else I'd rather be doing, it's like it didn't really matter. That's what I had to do, you know. So I think just kind of reassessing right now, like that's kind of my, that's just my everyday work right now, I was just kind of figuring out what's next.

Austin Seltzer: 9:24

What I love so much about that is. So I just had your reference on right Yazzy for those. I don't know which order these are going to be in, but I just recently personally had Yazzy on and her answer was much the same as like I am really taking life slow and I'm letting whatever come to me come to me. And now, sitting here after having that conversation, I'm very curious which of you is truly Taking it slow? Yeah, and then I'm guessing somehow, because you guys are in the same vicinity, like rub off on the other person.

Devin Oliver: 10:01

Yeah, I mean, it's hard to say which one's taking it slow. I don't think either one of us are necessarily taking it slower, but I think she would agree that if we had to choose, it would probably be her. But I am in like record mode now that we're releasing music, and some of this music we've been working on for the last six years is finally seeing the light of day. So there's a lot of daily, there's a lot of my focus. My daily focus goes into thinking about how to properly present the visual aspects of this record or these singles that are coming out. So there is a lot of daily work that goes into it, even post mixing and mastering a record. So, yeah, I would say that when I say that my life is like jazz, there's always. I guess there's always like I see stars dancing around. There's in my everyday right now.

Austin Seltzer: 11:08

Yeah, I mean for those watching and listening. I mean we're pretty close, I see you pretty damn often.

Austin Seltzer: 11:14

More often than that, like actually, I mean I like that you say that things are moving slower and you're able to ebb and flow with projects. But I mean, from my perspective, I see you very much as like the orchestrator of all these things going on, and whether it's like actually slower right now because you're not in the production phase of things, man, you're controlling so many things that are going on. There's still a lot going on, but you might just have like a calm mind about it or a more calm mind.

Devin Oliver: 11:49

I think that I'm really trying to figure out a way to set up my life in a way in which I'm enjoying everything I'm doing. I know that sounds kind of obvious, but it just hasn't been for me. My life has not been set up in that way. So now that the star's record is finished and I don't know when this is going to air, because people don't know we have a record finished they just know we're putting out songs. But I think that reassessing to me right now is all about just kind of figuring out how, Because I do have shybies and I do have icy stars and they're both very important to me and everything in between as well.

Devin Oliver: 12:36

So I'm trying to figure out a way to set things up so that I'm constantly doing what I'm inspired to do every day. I think that's the only way to juggle. Art specifically is to. I don't see a reason why you would have multiple projects if they weren't bringing something different out in you and inspiring something different. So for me it's like when I wake up in the morning, I want to feel. Whatever I feel inspired to work on, I want to be able to go and work on that.

Austin Seltzer: 13:06

Yeah, I mean that completely makes sense. I don't think one part of that doesn't make sense. I fully get that. But to understand, kind of, where you're at in life right now with everything going on, I'd love to go all the way back to childhood and I want to understand some deeper stuff about your family life and I want to understand the fabric of who you are from an early childhood and will move throughout the years, but just to understand kind of what went into the success that you've had so far and will have.

Devin Oliver: 13:46

If you want to start with just explaining some about childhood, like your family, yeah, I mean, I guess, to kind of crack open my life, it all starts with my parents. Obviously my dad was it still is but my dad's a musician and he was in a band called the Teen Angels and they were mainly a cover band. They wrote some originals but they did a lot of really cool stuff in the Detroit metro area and so for me that feels like where my inspiration has come from in music. You know, it all starts with my dad. But yeah, my mom is, you know, she raised four boys, you know, as a single parent. My parents divorced, I think when I was 10, and she has had a really hard life. You know, she was an alcoholic. She's a recovering alcoholic and I think, growing up, that is just kind of the way I remember her.

Devin Oliver: 15:00

You know, luckily enough, I had my band, my brother Andrew Brent and Jeff. I mean, I met them in elementary school, so, having that, they were like my family growing up, you know, and our religion was going in the basement and playing cover songs or just learning how to play these instruments together. I mean we didn't know how to play. When we met each other, we learned how to play together, you know. So I feel like that was my reality at the time. It wasn't.

Devin Oliver: 15:31

You know, I didn't have like a necessarily a family that was, you know, playing board games together. You know, it's like I didn't have a mom and a dad that were together. I didn't have a dad I saw all the time. I saw him once a week and you know, but it was he, you know, made that one time a week so important, you know. So I looked forward to it, but you know, it was, you know, on six days out of the week. It was me and my friends and we were just learning how to play music together and I feel like that was a big escape from what felt like kind of a broken childhood, you know.

Austin Seltzer: 16:12

Yeah, that's beautiful, thank you for sharing that yeah. Why was it that you were only seeing your dad once a week?

Devin Oliver: 16:23

God. You know, I'm sure that the answer is complicated, but I think the short answers. That was just the kind of the terms of the divorce. My mom had full custody of us and he was. I think my dad could have seen us really whenever he wanted to, but I just think that it was a complicated time in his life too, you know, and I also just believe that my mom was a complicated woman and so we were an extension of that, you know, and I think that there was just a lot that went into wanting to see us. You know, and I definitely, even as an adult, you know, I feel like the lack of trying and the lack of wanting to see us wasn't really there with my dad.

Devin Oliver: 17:29

I know that he, my dad, put a lot of effort into me and my brothers, but yeah, I mean not to put this all on my mom. You know my mom put food on the table, she worked her ass off to, you know, keep a roof over her head, and she was dealing with a very real disease, you know. But I have to believe that she made things also very difficult for my dad to see us and to visit us, and you know what I mean it was that her, my dad, did not have really a strong relationship, even, you know, as two parents who were trying to raise kids like it's not, like they really had a strategy so, and there was a lot of heartache in their relationship too. You know things I'll never fully understand or even probably fully know the truth of. You know there was a lot of complicated heartbreak that happened within their relationship that I'm sure made it even difficult for them to see each other, and you know that's part of that would be also part of seeing us, you know so. But it worked for me really.

Devin Oliver: 18:42

You know I'm, seeing my dad once a week was, you know, who knows what our relationship would have been like if I saw more than that. But all I do know is that seeing him once a week, he was able to be this very positive, influential person in my life that one day a week, and I needed that because my relationship with my mom was really tough. You know she, you know I think that a lot of the hardships in her life was very easy for her to kind of look at us and blame us. You know, yeah.

Austin Seltzer: 19:22

Yeah, I completely understand some things now that I'm gonna ask some questions to figure out, kind of, how music became your world and you explained that it was your escape, but I'm guessing growing up your dad since you saw him very little was kind of like your idol.

Devin Oliver: 19:41

Like you.

Austin Seltzer: 19:42

I'm guessing that you saw him playing music and you thought that that was a way to escape. Did you get into music? Because you saw your dad in that world and you saw that as an escape for him?

Devin Oliver: 19:58

I feel like my dad was like he was really good at keeping his career and him as a father separate. You know, I think the fact that my dad was a musician was like what kind of planted the seed, but I don't necessarily think it was the water that made the plant grow. You know, like I feel like for me it was a lot of what I was listening to at the time, you know, and that what I was listening to was constantly evolving. You know, I mean I started off listening to a lot of punk music. You know I listened to a lot of Blink 182 and you know Green Day, but eventually I'll never forget my oldest brother, mike. He showed us a Warp Tour CD.

Devin Oliver: 20:52

I didn't even know what Warp Tour was and I remember hearing a Coheed and Cambria song and I was obsessed with it and I don't remember exactly which song it was because I shortly after started listening to them immediately. You know all of their discog, but I just remember, for the longest time I thought it was a girl singing and it was like my introduction to this idea that, like a man can have that kind of voice. You know, that was that introduction to me and that's when I knew that that's the kind of singer I wanted to be. I knew that at a very young age. I think I was 12 or 13 when I heard my first Coheed song and that brought me to so many different artists, you know Chiotos being one of them.

Devin Oliver: 21:52

Coming from Michigan, they were a Michigan based band and watching them kind of start to, I saw them at a Knights of Columbus you know 75 cap room and then they became this huge band that inspired a whole generation of post hardcore, you know bands.

Devin Oliver: 22:14

So the seed was planted by my dad but I feel like the plant grew and was watered and nurtured by a lot of my inspirations and I think that my band kind of followed that inspiration because we started off covering Weezer and Blink, 1882 and Death Cab for QD and you know those are the songs we grew up covering and learning how to play our instruments. But when we started writing our own songs it was very much inspired by bands like Coheeding, cambria and Chiotos. So but yeah, to go back to my dad, I mean he, I would say that after the plant started growing, you know he, when he started seeing it grow, he really helped. You know, give it sunlight. You know, and I'm using this analogy but, like you know, he was the one who put mics around us and started recording our songs for us and, even though they sounded like shit, he allowed us to kind of hear ourselves and learn from that. You know, and it's just was just a whole lot of feels today, like a whole lot of happy accidents.

Austin Seltzer: 23:30

You know, yeah, how old were you whenever he started putting mics in front of stuff?

Devin Oliver: 23:36

I think the first time we recorded an IC Star song I had to have been like 12 or 13, something like that. The timeline is a little foggy in my brain, but is that what you guys were going by at that age.

Devin Oliver: 23:52

So at that age, the first name we had was stating the obvious and that was, but we were still covering, you know, songs. At that point, you know, we were coming and like fall out boy and we were learning how to play our instruments, you know. But the first time we ever played a show, together with our original songs, the night before that show we had to think of a name and we sat at a park by our house for several hours, just, you know, throwing names at the wall and was waiting for something to stick. I remember, you know, as kids, like, the one thing we really wanted was we wanted it to look cool when it was written on your hand, and I don't know why, but that was just so important to us. So our all of our hands were just inked up with pen, you know. And we landed on IC Stars and you know, the rest is really history. But yeah, I mean, we've had that name since I was 12, you know. So it's been 11 years, yeah.

Austin Seltzer: 25:00

Whenever you mentioned Chiodos, it just made me realize that is that somewhere around there. Is that how you met Nick Martin, who's obviously he was in drugs.

Devin Oliver: 25:13

He also is on some.

Austin Seltzer: 25:14

Chiodos records.

Devin Oliver: 25:15

Yeah. But now he's yeah, I forgot the band that Nick Martin was in. He was in a band, I mean, now it's sleeping with sirens just to throw it out there, but I'm talking like way back he used to scream in a band.

Devin Oliver: 25:30

Yeah, he had a really awesome scream. I mean I say had, but I just haven't heard him scream in a long time. But that's how I knew him as far as like when I discovered him. But yes, how I met him, I met him when we toured with drugs. We did it was the AP tour, it was Blackville Brides Drugs Us and yeah, he was really kind to us and just a really nice guy.

Austin Seltzer: 25:58

So yeah, yeah, I had a shot of him. I love that guy. He's so nice.

Devin Oliver: 26:02

Yeah, really nice guy always been the same dude. I just remember us really really connecting with him, but I haven't really spoken to him much since. But yeah, I was a huge fan of him before I met him, but I was a fan of him for reasons that I'm sure a fraction of the people that are fans of him now don't even know it exists. But I cannot remember the name of the band that he screamed in so good.

Austin Seltzer: 26:28

Yeah.

Devin Oliver: 26:29

Put a little font here that will figure it out afterwards.

Austin Seltzer: 26:32

Yeah, he told me the band and I didn't know, but it was the local cool like.

Devin Oliver: 26:39

Yeah, it was local, but man, it was so cool he had such a. He had like a really unique way of screaming. I remember that's what I really loved about him, but yeah, super talented guy.

Austin Seltzer: 26:50

All right. So Nick Martin, me and Devin love you. You know we were having a brain fart moment I'm just going to insert here. Obviously underminded is the band that we just could not figure out, so I'm going to insert that here and let's get back to it. Hell, yeah, okay. So you're like 12 or 13 and you just start recording your first tracks and you play your first show. Tell me some about like that age and how how you guys like came together to actually make something that you is like tangible and you could put out.

Devin Oliver: 27:30

Yeah, dude, I mean it's so crazy when I think about that era of my life, because the era between 13 and 15 like could have been 10 years, you know, because it just feels like such a strong era of my life and just such an inspired time. You know, it was definitely our gateway into playing shows and kind of forming a community and really becoming the band that got assigned. You know, because a big part of our journey was building a local fan base and there were so many tools. I know there's so many tools today but the tools are so obvious that it's very saturated, Whereas back then you had some underground tools but they weren't as, like you know, mainstream. There was like pure volume, you know, and obviously my space, but there were also these ways of figuring out who the biggest local bands were. You know, like, I think, pure volume, you could search, like what bands were the biggest in your area that are signed and unsigned, you know.

Devin Oliver: 28:43

I didn't know that. Yeah, it was really, really cool because not only was it a great way for you to discover artists and I was discovering tons of unsigned artists at the time and constantly doing research and constantly trying to figure it was there was a competitive nature to it, of course. I wanted to know, like who we're up against. You know, I mean, and I think that that was it was like a healthy competitive nature, because it always made us want to be better. You know, you always wanted to be number one on that unsigned Michigan list, you know, and you know, but we had a lot of strong competition, you know, I mean, we had. We came as Romans from Michigan and I feel like God, I feel like they're a big reason why we improved as a band, and I like to think I could say the same for them, because we were feeding off of each other's energy when we were growing up. We were all friends, but there was a competitive nature to it that was healthy because you just, we would see them do something and we would get inspired. And you know, I would think that they would see us do something and they would get inspired, and it was constantly like we were growing together. You know there was, you know it was like you want. You need that healthy, competitive nature to grow, you know, and we were really lucky to have such a strong Michigan music scene, local music scene, but yeah, I mean, 13 to 15 was great and there was also a lot of really great local venues. I remember at the time to play some of the bigger venues, like I remember there was a theater called the Emerald Theater and I'll never forget booking a show there because in order to play, you had to sell, like you had to like sell physical tickets and if the ones you didn't sell you had to pay for you know. So they would give you like 200 tickets at 10 bucks a pop and you would have to go and sell them, you know, and that was the only way you were going to book a gig at the Emerald Theater. But over time there were these venues like there was this one called MySpace Cafe, there was a venue called GameStop 360 or something like that Anyways, and then there was like the Haloft. There are all these like kind of local venues that were opening up, that were like 300 cap rooms roughly if you're cramming people shoulder to shoulder, but they just were just letting anybody come in and perform, and you know, and we got into a routine of playing MySpace Cafe.

Devin Oliver: 31:26

And at the time MySpace Cafe was an internet cafe. You just went and played games and surfed the internet, you know, back when people didn't have their own computers at home, you know. And so we played MySpace Cafe and we ended up selling this place out like every weekend, to the point where they're like hold on a second, we're making more money putting on shows than we are having people come and use our computers. So they ended up moving from this small, dinky internet cafe building to a more music venue and it was called MySpace Cafe and we ended up playing this place like at least once or twice a month and it was selling out every single time.

Devin Oliver: 32:14

And it wasn't selling out because we were this amazing band. It was selling out because we helped cultivate like a little community of people that love to go to our shows, because there was a, you know, hundreds of like-minded individuals that were kind of starting to get into this post-hard core scene that was creeping up. And eventually MySpace Cafe ended up booking like Devil Wears, prada, cheotos, august Burns, red A Data, remember, you know, I mean they lived on to book some really big shows and they would always put us on these shows. And I'm telling you all this because it leads to how we got signed. Ash at Samaritan was catching Wait.

Austin Seltzer: 33:02

I want to pause you real quick, yeah, yeah. I'm just getting into that yeah, yeah.

Austin Seltzer: 33:06

I want people that are listening and viewing this to like really understand if they're artists. I still think that that is the way you have to do it. I really want to be vocal about this because I've had many artists on and I talk to them all the time and if you just pop on TikTok, it's incredibly difficult to get that popularity to move over to Spotify and have streams. But it's even more difficult to get people to come out to your show. Yeah, it is so incredibly tough. I've worked with people that absolutely have popped on TikTok, but live you might may get 50 people or so there For sure.

Austin Seltzer: 33:48

I mean it's a real reality, but building a very dedicated fan base from the ground up, just moving slow and methodically like that. I work with this band, beauty School Dropout. I really love them. And I had Bardo on who's he's the guitarist but he's also a producer for the band and they did the same kind of thing. They played little local pop up shows that would just continuously sell out over and over and over and they built up a fan base.

Austin Seltzer: 34:16

And now I mean they just got off a tour of Blink 182 and Turnstyle kind of ridiculous and now they're overseas doing two other tours. And I'm just making a parallel that I still think at least for rock, like at least in the rock space, you have to build that dedicated fan base through organic memes. It can't just be views on TikTok.

Devin Oliver: 34:42

Yeah, I mean, man, I think that that goes for any genre. You know, I mean even, you know, watching artists like, like, in this electronic renaissance that we've been in for a very long time, you know, like, watching DJs, like cultivate events in Detroit, you know, and that's really how they became these big. You know, artists is, you know, creating this event that was bigger and bigger every week and then, you know, eventually it spread like wildfire. You know, it's like, I think that it's. It's hard for me to relate to what it means to be a new artist.

Devin Oliver: 35:26

Today, I am feel very lucky to have grown up at a time where we didn't have, you know, we didn't have TikTok and all of these these, you know these resources that could be somewhat a little overwhelming. You know, it's like my space. The my space days were this really cool time where really all you had to do was update your my space page every like couple of months. You know what I mean and really the sole focus was putting out music. That's what it was all about. It wasn't releasing videos and you know, 30 second videos and, by the way, I'm not, I'm not dogging on the times. Today it's a different time. I think that there are people out there that are thinking of this time as I think of my space times. You know, like we're always, times are always changing. There's always new resources at your fingertips, you know it's how you use those tools, and all I know how to talk about is how I use my tools.

Devin Oliver: 36:28

Back in the day, when my space was the the tool, you know, and I do think that between my space and playing shows constantly and, like I said, it wasn't that we were this amazing band, it was that we we went up on that stage and we were these crazy kids, Like we were 13 years old and we were had banging and, you know, and screaming, and had electronics in our music, which was also really kind of new at the time, you know.

Devin Oliver: 37:01

So there was a lot of, there was something kind of. There was kind of a spectacle happening in front of you, you know, and so. But I do believe that playing shows is so important because If you win someone over because of your live performance, that is the kind of person that's gonna probably go to your Spotify and follow you and like your music. And that's how these people get updated these days, because there's so much music out there. There's so much music and unless you're fully committed, like following a Spotify page, liking a song, there might be a lot of music that goes over your head, you know so.

Austin Seltzer: 37:46

I also think it's the way to sell merch. Yeah, live. I mean there's something about that merch booth leaving a show with something that, to remember that show, buy yeah, like of course you can throw up Lincoln Bayou, you know, like here's my merch. If you resonate with somebody, live and you have like a real true fan who has a potential buying that merch but really like following your success throughout the years, there's something so special about that. Totally. We can go back now to how you met, you know, people from Samaritan.

Devin Oliver: 38:21

Yeah Well.

Austin Seltzer: 38:22

I mean, how old are you by the?

Devin Oliver: 38:23

way. So we signed with Samaritan when I was 15. So I think that Samaritan was catching wind of our band around age 14, you know.

Austin Seltzer: 38:37

And you, and this means that you never had a job.

Devin Oliver: 38:42

That's a lie. I worked as a busboy at Outback Steakhouse early on during our signing, and that's a funny story actually.

Austin Seltzer: 38:54

You're gonna tell both of them, both of how you met them and your best boy story, yeah.

Devin Oliver: 38:59

Well, while we're on the Outback Steakhouse story God, I was so. I was such a horrible kid. I told my boss when we got our first tour this is horrible, this is so bad. I told him that my grandma died and that we were having a family funeral in Florida and I had to go away for a month and he let me go. I got to keep my job and all the while, every single coworker knew that I was in this band that was touring and was on this like relatively big tour because it was a skylight drive attack, attack. It was like I think Dance, gavin Dance was on it as well. It was like the tour to be on at that time.

Devin Oliver: 39:46

Yeah, that's a flex, that's a flex of life, I mean think about all those names at that time was like really cool. But so like, anyways, all my coworkers knew that this was what was really going on. So eventually, I think the news got out shortly after I got back and but yeah, I was just such a savage. I feel pretty bad about that. But anyways, I met some Marian. So let's go back to the MySpace Cafe.

Devin Oliver: 40:20

So I was playing these local shows with the guys and what ended up happening is a lot of these signed artists would request us on the show because they knew that we would sell it out. They knew we would sell at the MySpace Cafe. So it didn't matter if you were, you know Devil Wars, prada or you know Amir. You know you wanted our band on that show because we cultivated such a huge fan base there. And so Amir was actually one of the bands to really kind of start noticing us and Frankie, the screamer of Amir. We started kind of forming a little bit of a relationship with those guys and he had a relationship with Samarian and I believe Ash booked Amir at the time because Ash was a booking agent as well, and so Ash just kind of started keeping tabs on us. He reached out to my guitar player, brent. They stayed in touch and eventually that led to a contract and at the time we were talking to Victory Records. We had a few other record labels that were sniffing around.

Devin Oliver: 41:42

But there was something about Samarian that felt really wholesome. I really felt like they cared about the fact that we were kids, that we were, that assigning with them meant leaving high school and that was a really big problem for a lot of our parents. I remember there was a huge parent meeting between the band's parents. They met at my mom's house and it was a pretty aggressive conversation but eventually all the parents said yes, but my dad, being the musician, knowing what this life looks like, said hell, no. He was like they're not doing this, they're finishing school, it's not going, it's not what's gonna happen.

Devin Oliver: 42:27

I remember my dad specifically saying to all the parents he said none of you guys have lived this life I have, and the answer is no. And so he changed a lot of their minds and the answer kind of was more leaning towards no. And then Jeff Cohen, who is a investor in Samarian, he's a co-owner and I remember him calling the parents and talking to them and he's a great guy and he's a father. So I think that him kind of coming from that angle being like hey, I know they're kids, I have kids, we're gonna take care of them out there. I think that's really allowed our parents to open their minds to this for us. But I was the only one really doing good in school and my band's not gonna care if I say this, cause they know it's true.

Devin Oliver: 43:30

Brent, Andrew and Jeff were. They were all kind of more in that D plus range and I was getting A's and B's.

Austin Seltzer: 43:42

Devin, I know you well enough to know that you're a hella smart ass. Were you actually the one doing the best?

Devin Oliver: 43:48

No, this is true, this is true. Actually, I really I think I got lucky in school, like I think I just like I don't think I was that smart, I just think that I was lucky and cared just enough to get those A's and those B's and try to stand the on-roll and stuff. I mean that is all because of my dad. You know, my dad was really. He really kind of instilled in us that we are going to school to learn, so come back with knowledge. You know what I mean, and so I really didn't care too much about school, but I did care about making, you know, my dad happy and proud and all that. So I did do good in school.

Devin Oliver: 44:35

So my dad was really concerned that I was leaving school and so I remember him taking me out to lunch and I was like, is this really what you wanna do? You know everyone's leading towards, yes, but you're the only one that is leaving with good grades. You know essentially so, but it was what I wanted to do and I feel like I had this like really I don't wanna give myself too much credit, but I think at the time I knew that school was always an option. This was not always an option. I could always finish high school online, which I did, and go to college later, but this was a moment, one moment, and I was either gonna seize it or it was gonna go by, and I was always gonna wonder if that was something I should do.

Austin Seltzer: 45:26

So that's a really wise thing to have the answer for at 15. Not that wise?

Devin Oliver: 45:31

you know I'm not that wise, I don't know. I just I felt it in my bones. You know, I thought about how many times we played these venues and watched these signed bands and we looked up to them and we wanted so badly to be in their shoes. I thought about all those times that I wanted that for us and to throw in the towel just didn't feel like it. It didn't even feel like an option, you know.

Austin Seltzer: 46:00

I wanna take a second to just say, for people watching and listening, that a lot of the guests that I talked to that have had success as an artist particularly, but I mean some producers as well. I think it's their ability to listen to whatever that power is there is. I don't think it just comes from like within. You know that feeling in your stomach. Yeah, it feels like I don't know, just like some kind of like thing pushing on you. That's just like I've had them several times where it was either I do this or not, but it feels like I'm supposed to do this, even when it sounds fucking crazy. But I think that the people I've talked to that have that's come up. I think it's their ability to listen in that moment and just jump off the cliff, because that's what that is.

Devin Oliver: 46:54

Yeah, well, just to piggyback off that, I think there's a lot of naivety in that, but it's good. You know, it's like this. I don't wanna say false confidence, but like you have, like as a 13 year old, I had a lot of this confidence. I don't know where it came from, but I think I just saw what was happening. I saw what was happening at these shows we were playing. I saw I was watching artists that I was playing shows with get signed and go off to do something and I was watching it happen. I was seeing it really happen and for us it didn't feel like impossible. It felt like it was right there. We just had to go for it. That was the next step. The next step was okay, now it's real. This is no longer playing down the street from your house. This is like now we're gonna go out there and we're gonna really give this a shot. We're gonna cut a record and there was a lot of naivety in it and there was a lot of I think.

Devin Oliver: 48:03

It's like we didn't see how the sausage was made, so there was a lot of glamour in our heads of what this was gonna be like. I mean, even being, even having a 15 passenger van felt glamorous. Being in a 15 passenger van with a trailer was like cool. It was like having a bus, like having a cool 15 passenger van was cool back then, and I love that. I love thinking about that. I can tap into that headspace because I know why it was cool because it just meant that you were doing it. It just meant that you were going for it. I meant you were serious. That is what having a van and a trailer meant. It meant you were serious, and I think that I love that about our headspace. At the time, it didn't take much to feel like you took it seriously, but yeah, so anyways, I agree, though I agree that at some point when you're doing this, you have to just trust yourself, and I can't believe that we trusted ourselves at such a young age. It feels like a lot of power for a little kid, but there was.

Devin Oliver: 49:17

I think that because we were all best friends and we were doing it together, there was something in that too. We were all in it together and we pushed each other to do it and so, yeah, so we eventually signed with Samarian and we went on to cut our first record in Florida with a producer named Cameron Miselle, and that was a whole experience of itself. It's like I think about that and that record turning out the way it did. It's such a special record.

Devin Oliver: 49:54

It's like I think that there was naivety in that process too, because you're not really you're not over cooking things, you're just we're just out there to record our songs. We're not really thinking about the drum tones or the guitar tones or the mix. There's so much about that now that we think about, and it's important to think about those things. You know you're a mixing engineer, so it's so important, but at that time that was not what was important. All that was important was making these songs sound loud and good and like the things that we love. We wanted it to have that same energy of the things that inspired us.

Austin Seltzer: 50:41

But I mean not to discredit mix engineers or anything, but I'm very, I totally understand that my role is so less important than literally anything Like if you get into a room and you're able to channel raw emotion and feeling into a track that is always going to touch an audience 10 times, 100 times, more than a track that just was put together and mixed incredibly well. That emotion of you guys just getting in there and being excited to do that, being excited to do this and put those ideas down, hold so much more weight than caring about all the little nuances, so that I mean that's why it was magic.

Devin Oliver: 51:30

Yeah, I mean, I do think it's all about having an intention. When you go into the studio, you know, and if your intention is just to go in there and put your songs down like you're going to enjoy the process, it's like I think that that intention is going to shine. If your intention is you want this to sound like the greatest rock mix anyone's ever heard, you want this record to compete, it's all about what your intention is, and I think at that time our intention was that we kind of wanted it to sound a little shitty, because it's not wasn't necessarily like this is going to sound really weird, but an intentional intention. I think it was like a subconscious intention, because we were listening to records at the time that had, like this essence of rawness and we really wanted to make sure that that existed.

Austin Seltzer: 52:33

Do you remember some of the records that were influencing you back then?

Devin Oliver: 52:37

Well, coed and Cambria, the second stage of Turbine. That was like one of the most influential records for me, but it's hard for me to name record. So my brother, mike, used to burn CDs and we used to have a whole booklet of just burned CDs. I remember those days and I talked to Yazzy about this all the time because I'm just like I could sing you songs and tell you the songs that I love by artists.

Austin Seltzer: 53:09

But back in that era of time I couldn't necessarily tell you the records that inspired me, but I'm the same, I could sing the transition going into the next song before it would play, but I wouldn't know what record it was, because Lime Wire, napster or any of those things where I was just pirating music, yeah, but there are some. I mean, obviously, bone Palace Ballet by Chiodos.

Devin Oliver: 53:34

There was a lot of like and Jason Hale, their guitar player. He had this rawness to his guitar tones. It wasn't a perfect guitar tone, but it was his. So that's kind of what I mean, even less refined all's well that ends well, whatever. I'd listened to that.

Austin Seltzer: 53:51

Totally yeah, I listened to it maybe a couple of weeks ago.

Devin Oliver: 53:55

It is so raw. But holy shit, the emotion is there, yeah exactly I mean any Chiodos record really, and any Kohi'd record for real at that time was so influential. And God, I'm trying to remember what Kohi'd record they ended up remixing. But if you listen to the version before it, it's, god it's. I might be the second stage. I can't remember, god. I'm trying to think now yeah, I wasn't the deepest Kohi'd fan, or else I'd have to say I mean, they're amazing.

Austin Seltzer: 54:32

I just it missed my radar. Do you mind if I pull out my phone real quick?

Devin Oliver: 54:35

You should do it Cause I just want to get this right. Yeah, so it is the second stage, turbine, and so that record, I believe, was remixed, and the old version. I got used to hearing the, the unmixed version, or the version, the version prior to the remix, and I got so used to that that when I heard it I was like and I got so used to that that when I heard the remix I loved it, but there was something that I think changed about it. You know what I mean. That was so inspiring for me in the first place. So, anyways, all that to be said, I think we went in for our first record. There was like that intention that we it wasn't about it sounding perfect, it was about it having like this, like flair that was only ours. You know what I mean and that and having something specific that was to us, you know, and my guitar player, like with his tones, like we really we were really hardcore on that, and those are things that, like, I don't really feel like we think about as much as we as we'd like to these days, like I'm just mean rock bands in general, and on this last record I remember we the one that we just did.

Devin Oliver: 55:53

My guitar player said something at some point. He was like I feel like he's like I can't hear the position of my fingers, you know, cause he is such a guru at finding these really unique chords that put his fingers in these really uncomfortable situations, you know, and he's not a traditional guitar player, you know he goes by feel and he's not sitting there calling out notes, you know, he's just finding what feels right, you know. And so I remember him saying that while we were working on this last record, and that really struck me because I'm like that is such a big part of why we loved these artists in the first place. What we, what inspired us from the very beginning, was hearing the position of a guitar player's hand, hearing the stress, you know. So I feel like, you know, I'm just kind of, I think I'm just reminiscing on that, because when I think about our first record, that was so important and it's so weird to think about what's important now versus what was important then.

Austin Seltzer: 57:04

But I'm curious does that have to do with, like, amp sims as opposed to actually playing raw out of an amp?

Devin Oliver: 57:13

I actually feel like it has a lot to do with the mix because the thing is is like people don't, people don't wanna when and you could probably chime in on this more than I could, but I feel like when people are mixing songs now, they don't want anything too distracting, they wanna make room for everything, you know. But I don't think that's what it was really about back then. I think it was just. I think it was about putting it all together and just making it work and it was like uncomfortable.

Devin Oliver: 57:43

But that was the point, you know, whereas today it's like it's about making room and you don't want it to be too distracting, you don't want it to pull away from the vocals. You know, you want a drummer that stays in the pocket, you don't want them to be drum soloing the whole record, right. But it's like back then that's what it was. It was like the weird stuff. It was the weird drums, it was the weird tones, guitar tones, it was the distractions all over the place that made this weird post-hardcore scene kind of uplifted the scene. The scene thrived on those uncomfortable moments, on the songs you know.

Austin Seltzer: 58:22

So, yeah, I think I can weigh in on some of that. I think you did a great job at pinpointing the issue. But yeah, now I mean we have a scooped sound and for those listening, we finally have a low end in rock, for the longest time there wasn't really low end. It was more like we call it like a frowny face, like no low end, no top end, but a lot of mids. Now it's more of a smiley. You know, we got top end, we got low end, but to do that we have to make room for all the individual elements and we smashed the shit out of a limiter to make tracks loud. You know, back in that era tracks were not that loud.

Devin Oliver: 59:03

I mean, we are so much louder now.

Austin Seltzer: 59:05

But the only way to do that is to carve all this room, and I totally understand what you mean. Back then things had resonant tones like so frequencies that poked out and the smearing of individual instruments with other ones, like meaning that they don't have room. They're just kind of like rubbing each other it. I mean, it was definitely a time and a place and a sound, and then on top of that everything was probably mixed on a console with outboard gear and you have to print the mix in real time press play and you print it to either tape or to Pro Tools or whatever you do. But you know, now most people seem to mix in the box. There are totally people who are outside the box, but very, very few mixers who are still on a console. Yeah, it's the guys who have big studios that can still house a huge console.

Devin Oliver: 1:00:05

Yeah, I mean, you know, and, but I think we're so used to what we hear now that even when you hear a song mixed on a council, it can be a little shocking, you know, because I mean I can't talk like I have a lot of experience.

Devin Oliver: 1:00:22

I just know that we had a mix done on this record, done on a council, that we actually didn't.

Devin Oliver: 1:00:29

We didn't go through with that, you know, and I think that even just talking about it is sad because it makes me realize, like you know, how we've kind of strayed away from the path a little bit of like I think just rock music in general has strayed a little bit from the path of what I why I loved it in the first place.

Devin Oliver: 1:00:56

You know it was this really rare moment in music where, like, like it was, there was something childish going on in rock music. It was rock and roll, you know it was, you know, but it was like the post-hardcore version of that, you know, and I think it's kind of seeing the light of day again. You know, I feel like bands like Turnstile, like when you listen to that, there is like a, there is like a childish like feel to the music that really makes me think of, like Weezer, I'm like you know some of that raw shit that I grew up on that made you, you know, you're not thinking so much about the mix, you're thinking about this band in a garage like playing, you know what I mean. So I think it's kind of surfacing again, which is really exciting.

Austin Seltzer: 1:01:44

No doubt. And also I mean you guys have a lot of low end. There's a lot of low end stuff going on Bass drops, 808s, different like just really heavy sub parts to your bass, totally difficult to run through a console and get the umph that you need. I mean it's the loud music, for sure, and it has low end. So it's just like something that had to evolve.

Devin Oliver: 1:02:10

Yeah for sure. And with that evolution also came touring, because we started to realize touring more and playing these, you know, playing outside of our comfort zone, which was Michigan, you know, started to realize like and it brings kind of wraps us back to what we were first talking about playing live shows and why it's so important growing a core fan base. But I also think that playing live shows is so important because you start realizing what people are, what's resonating with people. You feel that energy. You see it. You start writing for it, you know, because you're like it becomes like kind of intoxicating and it's, you see, something hit live and you're like I want more moments like that, you know.

Devin Oliver: 1:02:55

So you're in the studio and you're all of a sudden you're thinking about that live show and I feel like that was a big part of the evolution of our music as well. You know, not just in the studio but also on stage and starting to. You know, play the. I mean we were playing like venues like the Fubar in St Louis and you know these small venues that were shoulder to shoulder, but it didn't matter if people were uncomfortable, if part moved them so much they didn't. There was no choice but to make room. You know, and when you've seen those moments live, it really kind of makes you want to. You know you want more of those moments. You know it kind of becomes a little bit of an addiction, absolutely.

Austin Seltzer: 1:03:39

I've always thought I'm gonna make a parallel to electronic world, which I know you're very into and we'll talk about that at some point. But like, what a cheat code to be on tour I mean either as a DJ or as a band and get to play your songs live while you're working on them.

Austin Seltzer: 1:03:56

Oh, my God Like even if you guys had a demo that you just wrote that day and you played it live, you get to see it, you get an immediate feedback. You know people fuck with this If they love all of it, but then there's this one section that I lost the crowd. You can go back to the drawing board.

Austin Seltzer: 1:04:15

I think that that's freaking beautiful, and I know that there's so many people that probably like artists or whatever, think that that's like un-pure, like you got to put out the art for the, just for the art. But if I were in your position the art is making people move In my mind. I want to make people feel a certain way and if I could see immediately if they're resonating with it or not, I would make a change. So I think that that makes total sense to me, that you would want to write music to move people.

Devin Oliver: 1:04:50

Yeah, I mean, I agree, I mean, but it is whatever you want it to be, you know, but for me it was that, for me, like art, you know, especially, you know, if you're moving on to like the digital, renegade new demons era of our career, which is our third and fourth record, it's like that was a lot about what the fuck is gonna make these kids lose their minds. You know, like I remember I was showing a couple of friends of mine who I met because they were fans of our band, but they've become really close friends of mine, but I love showing them new music because I feel like I'm gonna get some serious raw feedback from them from a fan's perspective. And there was a time where I showed them a few new songs and they're like, you know, I keep waiting for that moment, though, you know, you guys, you guys always have that moment. That is just like I can see myself experiencing it live, and I just haven't heard that yet and I was like ooh, I like that.

Devin Oliver: 1:06:00

I loved that feedback because I was like you know, that is what our band has always been about, you know is creating that moment where live it's gonna go off, you know. So, anyways, I feel like playing live is so important for so many reasons. But, yeah, I've never played a song that we wrote that wasn't finished, at least being recorded. You know, I've never played a demo live in our career since we've been signed, you know, but I do know that DJs get to do that a lot. They'll write a song that day, and they'll be like I'm gonna drop this and not just see how it goes over, but see how it sounds live, you know. So I really think that that's a powerful tool. But I do think, though, that what we are trying to do right now is release some songs and see what the feedback is and we have all these other songs that are finished, but, based on the feedback, we might go back in and change a couple of things and, like you know, that's the best we have right now as far as like playing live. It's like letting these songs go live and seeing what happens and then not being afraid to nothing's finished until it's out. That's been my mindset.

Devin Oliver: 1:07:22

You know, with this whole process, this new era of our career, it's like I wanna learn from our releases and I wanna like continue to sculpt these songs and, like you know, I don't wanna write these. I don't wanna work on these songs like they're gonna be played at my funeral, but I do want to. I think I just want to be open to moving things around until they're ready to be out and then, when they're out, it's like you know, you're making peace with whatever the results are at that point, you know, but I think that's the closest I have to like. Playing a song live before it's out is just learning from your releases and continuing to mold the songs that haven't been put out yet. You know.

Austin Seltzer: 1:08:07

Okay, so we've signed a record deal, we've gone on some tours, we've recorded some music. I want people to understand, like because so far all of this sounds it sounds like it's been pretty easy, like it's just like naturally come, which whenever you are like 12, 13, 14, I mean you grew up in a difficult household and that wasn't easy and I have to think you know that that's why you went into music, to escape some of that. But then I mean you guys are playing local shows after local shows and you're just killing it Like that's awesome. And then you started playing with big acts and then you go. You signed a deal and you go out on the road.

Austin Seltzer: 1:09:01

Tell us some like hardships that you had to go through so that you know people understand like all of this hard work does pay off, but it kicks you in the ass while it's happening.

Devin Oliver: 1:09:14

Totally, I mean, I think the biggest hardship that comes to mind is just being in a band in general, in general, because you know, when you're a kid and you're just having fun, there's not really the pressure of you know what this needs to be, you know, or what you know. It's really just whatever it is, it is and that's cool, you know. I think as you get older especially me and my band particularly it's like our inspirations have evolved on so many levels and also very separately. You know we're four piece but we're all equally involved. You know, as far as like, where we want to take this thing. But I will say specifically me and my brother Andrew. You know we're very hard headed in what we want and how we envision things and they couldn't be more the opposite sometimes and it's been something we've dealt with our whole career and it's very tough, you know, and I think that it leads to a lot of moments where you question whether or not this is aligning with you anymore. Like you know and this band has put me through that ringer a whole lot you know me being like is this the band representing what I want to be as an artist? You know at the age that I am right now and I feel like my brother, andrew, has a lot of very similar thoughts. But the silver lining is that when that moment happens, when you write something, when you all agree, you're like this is that song, this is doing it for all of us. It's like such a special moment because you know that over the years we've all kind of drifted into our own, you know our own realm of inspiration and you know we're all listening to our music that exists in different corners of the you know musical spectrum, you know, and so it's like when you have something that hits on fires on all those cylinders and it's connecting with each one of us, it's such a special moment, you know.

Devin Oliver: 1:11:42

But yeah, I mean, I think every record we've done, me and Andrew have had really hard conversations about whether or not this is something we want to continue doing, and it's a lot of. It is because we're brothers and we want to protect that brotherhood and sometimes these disagreements can be so catastrophic, you know, and it can push us into. It can push us into corners that we're not usually in as brothers and we don't. You know, him and I like, we're so loving as brothers, we're so, you know, we have each other's backs, you know.

Devin Oliver: 1:12:20

But when we're writing music and we're having disagreements, sometimes it can feel so detrimental to like our core beliefs as musicians that we're against each other for a moment, you know, and it hurts to be there. So I think we've had those moments with every record and that's been and it's even something that we have till this day, you know. And we could be talking about merch, we can be talking about music videos, we could be talking about you know what the future looks like, what bands we want to tour with all of that. We have those kinds of moments, you know. And but I think what has been something that exists now more than it ever has, is that there is just this really deep, deep respect for, you know, our relationship and our love for each other, that it trumps anything. Yeah.

Austin Seltzer: 1:13:21

I love that for you guys, that you figured that out, and I'm very well I'm certain that that's why you both have created side projects and I think that's helped a lot actually.

Devin Oliver: 1:13:32

Yeah, having me having Shibes and him having Dream Beach, you know we're able to exercise something that is fully us, you know fully authentically me, fully authentically him no one telling him to change this or that, you know, and I think that's so healthy. As an artist, you know you need that outlet. But I will say that in Shibes I found that, like having those people in your life that are challenging you and pissing you off really make a better I don't wanna say better, but it makes something that you could have never created on your own. Yeah, and a lot of times when I listen to star songs, even though I'm such a big part of the writing process I mean I've played drums, guitar, bass, I sing on the records, like I've done a little bit of everything on these songs I mean, you know, it's like when I listened to them, a lot of the time I'm like how the fuck did we do this? Because these guys are such a big part, too, in the creation that I could have never done this alone.

Devin Oliver: 1:14:38

You know, and I think that's what, when you realize that you have a little bit more respect for the disagreements that you have in the studio. You understand that, like, even though you feel this way, you may not be right and if you can just allow everyone to think freely and express their opinions and try everything, you might land on something you would have never got to on your own, something better. And then you take that with you to your other project or whatever. You take that little nugget of knowledge, you know and you go it up.

Austin Seltzer: 1:15:08

That's, I think, a lot of the time the value of a mix engineer. To bring that back into it is like just getting another perspective. Go ahead dude. You can pat yourself on the back dude. It's like it's just a different perspective For sure.

Austin Seltzer: 1:15:24

Like this is this thing that we've been working on, like you was Zach Sravini. It's like you've been working and we'll get to this new record. I really want to talk about that. But you've been working on this record for so long and then there's no way that you're not married to the rough. You've been listening to these things forever or a long time. Then you get a fresh perspective and it never would have been this way if it weren't for that person. But also the mixer's job is to understand. You have been living with this forever.

Devin Oliver: 1:15:55

And.

Austin Seltzer: 1:15:55

I or Zach or whoever. Our purpose is to make what's in your head a reality, and so, yeah, I mean you have to bend and flow with your brother's ideas and your ideas and your other bandmates ideas, but ultimately, if it's not all of you, there's no way that it's gonna be the IC stars concoction that you guys have been able to continuously dish out at a super high level.

Devin Oliver: 1:16:22

I appreciate that. Yeah, I mean, finding the right mixing engineer for this record was a process of its own. We obviously had David Bendeth produce it with us and he gave us a really great perspective of what the mix could be. I just think we had a different idea of where we wanted to go, and it brought us to Zach, and what I really wanted for this particular moment in our career was to be able to really loosen my grip and trust that Zach was gonna bring something that represented these songs in their raw state. We did want this record to feel raw. I mean, we have Luke Holland playing the drums. We didn't wanna throw drum samples all over the place. We really wanted you to hear Luke playing, you know. Otherwise, why do you have someone like Luke playing if you're just gonna sample everything? You know? And I think that Zach really respected that and I also think he's just really good at that in general, you know, but-.

Austin Seltzer: 1:17:29

I mean Zach is incredible. I mean there is a reason that he is just absolutely crushing every rock record. I mean he really brings something special.

Devin Oliver: 1:17:38

I also think he's just got this really, really pure way of respecting the artist and just really wanting to be. He is such a collaborator, you know, and like. I think that's kind of what makes every single thing he puts out feel a little bit like a snowflake. It's very unique to the artist because he's open to being like I wanna know what you want. I want this to be. I want this to connect with you.

Austin Seltzer: 1:18:05

I mean I have gotten to hear, obviously, the two that have dropped. So far and they're I mean they sound freaking amazing and I guess we can say now but can we?

Devin Oliver: 1:18:15

of course we can I mean cause.

Austin Seltzer: 1:18:17

It will be. Anomaly is going to be on the radio.

Devin Oliver: 1:18:20

Yeah.

Devin Oliver: 1:18:21

Devon is getting a song on the radio, hey yeah, I mean it's crazy to think because I've always I never really cared too much about the radio, you know, and I think that that's worked out to our advantage in a way, because if you go to our Spotify and stuff and Spotify was never really popping like it was, even when our last record, trias, came out, it was still kind of like not the monster. It is today, mm-hmm, but my band has never been playlisted, ever, never been on an editorial Spotify playlist and we've never been on the radio. Everything that we have is organic and I think that that's kind of a testament to even where we began. When I'm telling you these stories about us playing shows and building these, like building this community, it's like it feels like even this late in our career, that has been the case up until this point. Obviously, now, with Anomaly, we've gotten our first few editorial playlists. We're gonna be on the radio, which is really cool First time on the radio, and we, in every record we've submitted and we've never even gotten a test run Anomaly skipped the test run, going straight to regular rotation, which is just really awesome.

Devin Oliver: 1:19:37

But I don't think I would have changed anything because whether we're on the radio or on a playlist.

Devin Oliver: 1:19:43

We have so many, such a beautiful community of fans that are gonna play our shit because they just they love what we do, and that's that. They didn't hear us on an editorial playlist and just like it because it's on this playlist or like it because it's on the radio. They liked it because somehow and the universe brought them to this song, whether it was because they saw us at a show or a friend played them for us. There was an organic way that they found our band and I think that's really, really cool. I'm really grateful that we've gone this long in our career and have survived without those really strong pillars like radio and playlisting. But I'm really excited to see what that does for us, because I think right now the goal is just to spread our music to people that maybe otherwise would never hear of us, and radio and playlists are such a big part of that, for sure, yeah, yeah, and you're about to head out on a long tour as well.

Austin Seltzer: 1:20:50

You're gonna get to go and play these tracks for old fans, new fans.

Devin Oliver: 1:20:55

A lot of new fans. I mean, we're touring with Bad Olmans and they're just like a huge, huge rock band now and I'm so proud of them because they are just a group of really great guys. But I mean, we toured with them a long time ago and it's just really. I think that's kind of like the circle of life in the music business. You know, you see a band opening a tour that you're on and then next thing you know you're playing under them and watching them do this really amazing thing. And it feels like to me like they're an era right now, like they're a part of a really awesome era in music and it's just like we're honored to be a part of that and we're honored for them to bring us to their community of people and let us play our music for their community of people. It does feel like the circle of life a bit, you know, yeah.

Austin Seltzer: 1:21:54

I mean, that's beautiful. I do love that. And do you know where they're based out of or what they consider their base, I'm not sure like I wanna say Texas yeah, I want to also.

Devin Oliver: 1:22:07

That's why I brought that up. I wanna say Texas. But I wanna say Texas cause I believe they're. I feel like they're drummers from Texas, but I'm not entirely sure, I couldn't say for sure. But yeah, I feel like it's either Texas or somewhere. It's like somewhere in the South.

Austin Seltzer: 1:22:32

Yeah, I asked because I feel like it was Texas, but I'm from Dallas.

Devin Oliver: 1:22:36

They're probably from Finland or something.

Austin Seltzer: 1:22:39

Yeah, on that note, I'm trying to figure out. I've seen you guys play live before, but it was whenever I was younger. Do you know? Can you remember the times that you went through Dallas so?

Devin Oliver: 1:22:53

Dallas is. Usually we play like the house of blues, but then we'd play like San Antonio. We'd play like the white rabbit was a big one, but Dallas. I feel like there's another venue. We played in Dallas. That was pretty big and it was pretty cool. But the funny thing is is like after all this time a lot of the venues start to look the same, but I wanna say you guys were on Warp Tour. Yeah, so Warp Tour obviously is outside, but I don't.

Austin Seltzer: 1:23:26

I don't, it would have been a fair park, yeah yeah, so we've done Dallas Warp Tour three times yeah definitely saw you guys on Warp Tour in Dallas. Did you ever play the Plano Center? Cause that was kind of a place that, like we have played the Plano Center, yes, popped off a lot of that era.

Devin Oliver: 1:23:40

If you say the name, I'll be like I'll know it when I hear it. So, yes, we have played the Plano Center. You know what's really good at this is my guitar player, Brent. Like he'll tell you what color the walls are in a venue. I swear it's and I'll walk in. I'll be like Brent, have we played the here? He's like yeah, we have. You don't remember that? One time we played here and then we got chicken fingers from the place down the street and then we went and got a coffee from. I'm just like dude, how are you doing this? It's? If I could have one superpower, I would want that met. I would want my guitar player brand's memory for music venues and stuff like that. Yeah, wow, fuck, flying, yeah, just give me the memory, just the memory. I just want the memories. That's funny.

Austin Seltzer: 1:24:23

Yeah, so yeah, that would have been a Mike Seimer event, right, and I mean playing the center kind of popped off, a. I mean that was like the epicenter of the Dallas, like hardcore, metal core, post-hardcore, whatever it seemed South by. So what Dallas?

Devin Oliver: 1:24:40

Yeah, also Mike, I mean, yeah, I mean Mike is. He's supported our band for a long time, so he's always been bringing us to that, those festivals. And yeah, spoiler, we're actually going to be playing that festival again. It's actually what's funny? We do the bad omen's tour at Enzin Dallas on the 13th of October. The 14th of October we play it South by. So what?

Austin Seltzer: 1:25:04

In Dallas yeah.

Devin Oliver: 1:25:05

Okay, yeah, so we'll be playing that for the first time in like five, six years or something like that.

Austin Seltzer: 1:25:11

Yeah, I mean, I have to go back to Dallas.

Devin Oliver: 1:25:12

Yeah, walk down memory lane, that sounds fun.

Austin Seltzer: 1:25:14

Yeah, okay, yeah, you can catch two shows I can catch, two yeah and Vegas, two for the price of one.

Devin Oliver: 1:25:20

I want to do Vegas. You did not want to do Vegas. Vegas is, oh my God. Yeah, vegas is Vegas. Dude, vegas is Vegas. That's all I'm going to say on camera. Okay, vegas is Vegas. Vegas is Vegas Actually. Come to Vegas. Come to Vegas, just don't be prepared to come back home Period, or come back home the same.

Austin Seltzer: 1:25:47

So let's talk a little bit about Shiby's. I want to understand. Obviously this project came about because you wanted to create about that outside of IC stars. But tell me something about that.

Devin Oliver: 1:25:58

Well, I've always been, I've always had a heavy hand in like the electronic aspects of our music.

Devin Oliver: 1:26:06

You know, and this was just kind of a way to.

Devin Oliver: 1:26:15

I mean, really, shiby started because there was a lot of songs I wrote for the band that just didn't necessarily work and it was always really heartbreaking for me because I loved these songs, but they just, you know, maybe they didn't work for what we were going for for a record, or maybe, I mean, our band will write like 25, 30 songs for an album and only 12 of them will make it.

Devin Oliver: 1:26:40

So we're bound to have a few songs that maybe need to see the light of day, you know, but won't with IC stars. So this was kind of originally that that was the idea is that I really wanted to make sure that anything I wrote always had an opportunity to see the light of day. I think that's really important, was really important for me as far as, like mentally, you know, staying positive and you know, like, I guess, confrontational moments in the studio, like if a song's not going to be on the record, at least I can know in my heart that, okay, well, maybe this isn't the right home for it, but it will be, we will find a home.

Austin Seltzer: 1:27:22

Yeah, I can a little spoiler. I'm mixing this and, I think, mastering it.

Devin Oliver: 1:27:26

That's what we're talking about, yeah, mixing and mastering, yeah, maybe, yeah, no, yeah, but I can attest to.

Austin Seltzer: 1:27:33

Devin had me bring his vocals down on this track. He was like dude it's about I want this to be more about the music. I was like Devin, but you have a beautiful voice, a voice of an angel.

Devin Oliver: 1:27:43

Yeah, I appreciate it. I think I actually deleted the files, like the vocal file, like your vocals you just deleted the session totally no, just your vocals.

Austin Seltzer: 1:27:53

I mean you told me a turn down, yeah, I say just like, fuck these vocals.

Devin Oliver: 1:27:56

Yeah, I mean it's tough for me because the second I start singing it feels like all eyes on me and like that's not really what I want Shibies to be about. I really love when I go. I'm a huge like like tech house guy. I've been going to Detroit Movement Festival since it was free and I feel like I've my inspiration of electronic artists are not based on, like necessarily vocals. I love when I'm listening to a DJ and their set from front to back is like telling the story without needing to have words. You know what I'm saying and so I'm kind of wrestling two different sides of what inspires me, because I also really love Rufus Do Soul and have been listening to them forever and I think they were the first house artists that I heard that I really loved the fact that they had vocals right there all the time, and so I'm trying to find this.

Devin Oliver: 1:29:13

I think I'm definitely still soul searching with that project and I think that's part of the fun. You know I'm trying to have fun taking on new identities while I'm creating songs and figuring out what this project could be, but I think overall it's. I just don't want it to always be about my vocals, you know, but in the song that you're particularly mixing, I think the dilemma for me was that it the music is. I love the music in that song and so my vocals just kind of pull you away a little bit from it. And so that's part of the discovery process for me right now, because I'm trying to figure out, you know, when is the right time to be involved as a singer and what time is the right time to be involved as a producer, and you know. So it's definitely a little bit of an identity crisis, but I'm really enjoying it though, you know. I'm really enjoying like the crisis I'm having right now of just like loving the music and also loving the vocals and figuring out which one deserves to be the highlight, you know.

Austin Seltzer: 1:30:20

Yeah, I mean that's a very storytelling song and also just like an incredibly powerful hook that comes in like the main drop is just so massive. It's like not massive in like I don't know, not like a dubstep drop, way Like where it's like oh my God, it's like it just feels larger than life Right, and so I understand you know, how you want to storytelling. If you have that vocal front and center, it takes you out of the world of the song Like it totally makes sense.

Devin Oliver: 1:30:53

Yeah, it's just so weird Cause, like when I go to shows and I'm experiencing like house music or, you know, techno, when vocals come in it kind of pulls me out, you know. So it is very much an identity crisis I'm having right now because but I guess it all depends on who you're, you know, seeing, like you know, I was at movement last weekend and I was actually really impressed by a couple artists for different reasons, right. So I saw Carabou and I really loved there was vocals, but it was the only like full band set I think that they had that weekend. The rest is just DJs, you know, and there's a couple of singers, of course, but and I could be wrong about that, but that's, that was my experience.

Devin Oliver: 1:31:49

But then I saw Zed's dead and I wasn't exactly sure how I was going to feel about their set in that environment. You know, movement is such a, you know, it's roots are, you know, specific, but I really loved Zed's dead set and front to back it was, you know it told a story, but there wasn't. Not every song had vocals and when songs came in that had vocals, I found myself a little disengaged. And so, you know, as a songwriter, I love vocals, and as a producer, I even love vocals, but I think, like when I'm thinking of it as someone who attends these shows, I don't, so it's like this really conflicting thing I'm dealing with with this project.

Austin Seltzer: 1:32:40

Well, I mean I have to ask them because I know that you really love Skrillex set. I mean I fucking love him.

Devin Oliver: 1:32:47

Yeah, his set was amazing at movement, but it's very generally, very heavy on vocals.

Devin Oliver: 1:32:52

It is, yeah, and that's what I was actually getting to, that because then I saw that set and that set was an incredible set. I mean he's, you know, he's really great at curating sets, especially for movement. I mean he's been coming to movement with all of his projects for a while, you know. So he had a really good way of kind of knowing you know his audience and I mean I'm sure he knows his audience anywhere he goes. But I could tell at movement he definitely did and but yeah, there was a lot of vocals, but I didn't mind it as much, you know. And so I think that but he's also was playing, you know, a different style. You know it wasn't really, I mean, he was playing house, but you know there was a lot of dubstep involved and I feel like and there's a lot of room for vocals and that, you know, whereas house music sometimes there is and sometimes there isn't. It all depends on the song.

Devin Oliver: 1:33:45

But in that particular song we're working on together, it feels to me and I feel like we're having an inside conversation because no one's heard this song yet. But in this particular song I used a lot of analog, since I used, you know, my Prophet 6 and I used, you know, one of my MOOGs and it's there's such beautiful sounds. I just want them to be the highlight. So it's a little bit of like. There's a little bit of soul searching happening, but, like I said, I'm enjoying this. I'm actually enjoying the identity crisis. I think that's what this project is supposed to be. It's I'm discovering new parts of myself, you know.

Austin Seltzer: 1:34:25

Yeah, so I want to pivot now to an existential question maybe, or a bigger question of what does success mean to you?

Devin Oliver: 1:34:42

Well, it's so funny, you know this, but I did like a tobacco healing ceremony last week and he was talking. We were talking a lot about just, you know, fulfillment and joy, and I feel like in that moment I kind of realized that success to me is finding as much fulfillment and joy on a daily, weekly, monthly basis as you possibly can, and I don't really know that it's more complicated than that. You know, it's like inviting the things in your life that bring you joy and fulfillment as much as you can and also recognizing when something isn't. You know it's. I think a lot of times we ignore those omens and those signs of the things that are really getting in the way of our joy and our overall fulfillment in life. And I think if you can isolate those things and try to remove as many of those things as possible to make room for other things that might help uplift you, is my definition of success. I feel like that's what makes a day feel successful for me, if I look back and I'm like I really enjoyed today, I really felt fulfilled today. You know so and I'm.

Devin Oliver: 1:36:14

You know, a lot of times when you hear success, you think of people, think of money and they think of financial success, they think of their career and I've had to like let go of that a lot because there's not a lot of money in music and there is now more than there was back when I was starting. But when I was starting things looked really successful, but financially they weren't very successful and that was a very tough for me at a young age, especially with all my friends going to college, people getting jobs through my twenties, people buying homes. It was a long time before I did any of that, before I bought a home or, you know, had my own place, and you know what I mean. There was just a lot of financial struggle that to me, didn't represent success. So I had to redefine the word altogether and because the one thing I didn't know is I was really enjoying myself and I felt really fulfilled. I felt so fulfilled when I was sharing a house with four dudes, like you know, and all we were doing was making music. It's like like it was the dog days, you know I mean we were, we didn't, we were eating Taco Bell every night, and you know what I mean Like we weren't making a lot of money, but I felt so successful, I felt so fulfilled and had so much joy.

Devin Oliver: 1:37:49

So, and then, you know, like, fast forwarding to this period in my life, I feel like, not that those days are gone, but as we kind of transition and I moved out of that house and I moved out here, there has been a whole nother level of trying to discover that joy and that fulfillment and what in this, you know, new city, where that comes from, where I pull that from, you know, because it's, it's to me, it's paramount, and why a place feels like home, you know. So, yeah, I think, if, if, if someone's looking at their life and they're thinking, well, am I successful? It's like, well, you just got to ask yourself are you, are you finding joy and fulfillment? And it doesn't have to be every day, but most of the week. Are you finding joy and fulfillment? And if you're not, to me that is something that needs to be isolated and figured out. You know, it's not the amount of money in your bank account, and I know that sounds a little cliche to say, but you know, at the peak, some of the peaks of my career, I've had $20 in my bank account, you know. And but it doesn't mean I didn't feel successful and doesn't mean I didn't feel joy or fulfillment, you know so. So, yeah, I think that would be. I think that's where I would go to start if you're trying to be successful.

Devin Oliver: 1:39:29

You know, talking about success, fulfillment and joy, it's like there's something really successful about speaking your truth out loud regularly in your life, because the hard truths, if we speak them out loud, it allows the universe to work on that truth with you you know what I mean and help you figure things out. And that was one thing that they said in that ceremony that really stuck with me and I've been really. I always feel like I'm a very truthful. I can't, I'm not really like I don't have a poker face, like I kind of wear my heart on my sleeve, but I have been working on speaking the hard truths out loud more often and I feel like it's brought me a lot of fulfillment and has kind of been a, even just in this last week. I feel like it's helped me, feel like the universe is on my side and helping me kind of. I now have I'm inviting the universe to help me figure this thing out you know, whereas keeping it suppressed, keeping it inside, is really kind of I don't.

Devin Oliver: 1:40:41

I think it's you're harboring it, then you know.

Austin Seltzer: 1:40:43

Yeah, so we talked about this at one point and I'm very much actively working on that. It's very tough to start, but I'm sure that it's slightly less tough whenever you begin to implement it into your life.

Devin Oliver: 1:40:58

Yeah, I think it's just like anything you know. It's like if you practice something, like even if you and even the negative things you know and it's actually me and Yazzy talk about this a lot but like you know, stress like if you practice being stressed out all the time, you're going to get really good at it, you know. And so this is all just kind of part of fine-tuning the things you practice on a daily basis.

Austin Seltzer: 1:41:25

Yeah, I love that. I'm going to talk more about that off camera, because so many things to talk about there. I would like to ask, now we've talked about kind of your story from beginning till now. I want people who are listening and viewing this to be able to walk away with some I guess let's call them bullet points of what you think that made you successful. So not what success means anymore, but what are some of the things that people could implement into their life to become more successful, the way that you have oh well, in these moments I have imposter syndrome, because it's hard to believe that I am where I am today.

Devin Oliver: 1:42:17

You know, a lot of the time we got to tip our hats to luck, you know, on timing, but I think that at this point I've realized that it's getting the spark. Having a spark in your creative endeavors is not really necessarily the hard part, because I think there is a little bit of luck and a little bit of timing that happens with the spark, but it's how you keep the flame lit. You know, and for me, like I am incredibly, incredibly involved in everything I do, but I think that what has really helped me succeed is inviting people in to and letting go of certain things and letting people help you and letting people guide you and always being, you know, a student. You know, I'm going back to the ceremony because the shaman said you cannot be a mentor without being a mentee, and I feel that that resonated with me so much. And I know you feel this too, because in what we do, you always have to be a student, you always have to be willing to learn and you always have to be open to inspiration and feeling inspired. It's a big part of what we do, you know.

Devin Oliver: 1:43:44

And once you think you know everything, that level of inspiration I feel like dwindles and you're going to find yourself kind of in quicksand, you know, and you're going to it's. You know that's when you become your own worst enemy and I feel like my whole career I've been pretty good at allowing myself to. I've never thought I was the best at what I do. I've never thought I was, like you know, the greatest of all time. You know, I've always felt like I'm lucky to be working with the people I'm working with. I'm lucky to be learning things from all of these people that are, you know, bringing information from a different walk of life, you know. So I don't know that there's ever going to be a formula to success or to being a successful musician, but I think that if you stay open-minded and you invite people in, you continue to accept yourself as a student, you know, allow yourself to be a teacher in moments, but know when you're a student, know when you're being a student, you know, and you know allowing yourself to be inspired by the people around you. It doesn't matter if they're a bigger artist than you or not Like can't tell you how many artists were not as big as me, surpassed me and it was and it's, you know, and I seen that in them when they were not, you know, when they were not here. They were here and they had it when they were here and you knew it when you saw it. It's like you never know who's going to go on to do really big things. So allow yourself to be a student.

Devin Oliver: 1:45:27

Allow yourself to always learn from people. It doesn't matter if they're above or below you. I don't even know what that means, but it's like you know. Allow yourself to learn from everyone around you. You know, I don't care if they're the opening band or the headlining band. It's like everyone's got something to say, everyone's got something. Everyone knows something you don't, and they can also learn something from you.

Devin Oliver: 1:45:48

You got to let that two-way street exist, you know. So I think I don't know if that makes any sense, I don't know if I'm just going on a tangent, but I feel like it's really the biggest piece of advice I could give someone who's trying to, you know, really get involved in any facet of music, you know, is just always remaining open, always being a student, you know, but giving yourself credit. Allow yourself to be a mentor when you feel like you could teach something. But when you feel like someone's trying to teach you something, don't resist it. Don't let that ego put a wall between you and this person who's trying to show you something. You know, I love that.

Austin Seltzer: 1:46:27

I really feel that from you. I mean our entire relationship. I've felt that from you, Like that you are very open to whatever people have to say. You know, if they have some kind of advice, you're open, You're also open to giving feedback, which is just, which is awesome. There's this thing called flow state you know, and it's where time doesn't exist.

Austin Seltzer: 1:46:54

Creation just kind of flows out of you in any way shape or form that you're creating, but everything else disappears and it's just you and the work and whatever comes out just feels effortless. And we've talked about this before how just time just disappears. Do you have any advice for people on how to get into that state Easy, more easily, more quickly, just more effortlessly, I suppose?

Devin Oliver: 1:47:24

Yeah, I mean, I have, I think, the biggest. You know me like. You've been to my home studio and it's like for me, I need everything to work just the way I expect it to work when I go in the studio and it's a big part of how I get in that flow state. If something happens unexpectedly and it pulls me out, it's very disruptive to you know, things flowing like water in the studio. You know it's like. So.

Devin Oliver: 1:47:55

I always encourage people because you don't need to have. You know, you don't need to spend a million dollars to have a place that you can create magic in. You know, but my only advice is spend a hundred dollars to make it as efficient as it possibly can. You know, make sure that everything in your studio is accessible. You know, like at your fingertips, feeling inspired and wanting to be there. To me is such a big part of getting in that flow state a little bit more easily, as you put it. You know it's like. So allowing yourself to take those days to go out, experience music, feel inspired, you know it's all brings me back to being a student. You know, when you go to a show, you're now in someone else's classroom. You know you're watching someone else. You're, you know in someone else's. You're in their world. Now gathering seeds, yeah hilariously that.

Austin Seltzer: 1:48:57

It's hilarious that Yazzy looks at it as such a peaceful and beautiful thing collecting seeds, and now you're going to go back and let them grow. I think about the exact same thing whenever I go to a live show. I feel very inspired. I feel like I'm a lightning rod and I'm absorbing energy or electricity. And then I go into the studio as a sith lord or some shit and I'm blasting the fucking, the lightning back out of my fingers into the kitchen Love, the dichotomy between the two.

Devin Oliver: 1:49:28

I'm not much more angry. No, I mean, I think I'm more in your world. For sure, you know lightsaber is out.

Austin Seltzer: 1:49:35

Absolutely fucking shit up. She's planting things or we're destroying them. Yes, I love that, yeah.

Devin Oliver: 1:49:41

This is a lot about us?

Austin Seltzer: 1:49:43

Yeah, damn Okay. So the final question I have that I want to ask you maybe you want to. You know, bring some stuff up. The the last thing that's on my mind is you're very into health and I kind of want to know. I want to know, and I think that people listening and watching would love to know, some things that they can implement into maybe their life or their routine or something that can help them just be a little more healthy.

Austin Seltzer: 1:50:13

Cause I do think that that also has to. That plays a huge factor, at least for me, seeing how much you work on, how much you're juggling. If you didn't care about your health and fitness I don't think you'd be able to juggle as much as you do as efficiently, as you do.

Devin Oliver: 1:50:30

Well, yeah, I mean, health and fitness to me is very selfish. You know, like everything I do is self-serving, you know, and it's all mental. It's like mental health is so important to me and I feel like everything I've implemented just helps me mentally on a day to day basis. You know, luckily, those things are. You know health, like they're, they are healthy. You know things like exercise. I think exercise is so important and we talk about it all the time. Everyone's talking about it. You know there's so many different avenues and information. You know avenues of information that are flowing on the internet where you can, you know, hear people talking about the health benefits of exercising and all of its. You know it, just all of its. Um, it's like you know all the positive benefits that your body gets from it.

Devin Oliver: 1:51:23

But for me it's all mental. You know, I think that lack of exercise for me it means that my mental health could go downhill, and so I don't compromise exercise, even with a broken wrist, you know, I'm still, you know, going and walking on the stairmaster and doing things that are, you know, getting my heart rate up, because it's going to help me mentally throughout the week, you know, and I think that it goes the same with um. I mean, I'm a big cold plunger and you know that I feel like that is all about mental health, even though there's all sorts of other health benefits of cold plunging, reducing inflammation and stuff like that. For me it's all mental. It just really helps me and my mental health, you know. So I found all these avenues and now I've just kind of became I've become an addict. You know, I've anything that I think could help my mental health. I'm trying to implement it into my day to day life. You know I'm big mouth breather at night, so I wear hostage table or my mouth when I sleep, baby, and it helps. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So you know that for me, good sleep means, you know, good mental health, you know. And so better sleep means better mental health. I mean, I've always been good at sleeping, but this has just improved that.

Devin Oliver: 1:52:42

You know I'm eating healthy. Same thing. You know, like I do, I love eating shitty food. We just talked about Taco Bell. You know big, big Taco Bell guy over here. I love Taco Bell, but is eating Taco Bell every day going to help me mentally? Not really, you know. I think that eating healthy makes me feel healthy, which makes me feel mentally balanced, you know so, yeah, I mean. So all that to be said, like I think a healthy mind is a healthy life, you know, so they're very synonymous for me, yeah well, your mind is your body.

Austin Seltzer: 1:53:25

A lot of people forget that, but or they talk about them as two separate things. But your mind is your body. Your mind controls your body. If your mental health is bad, your body will suffer totally, and so that's a huge thing. I'm glad that you brought that up without being said Devin dude, thank you so much for coming on here.

Devin Oliver: 1:53:46

Of course, man, thanks for having me. I know we've been talking about this for a long time and I think that you're doing a really cool thing by inviting people in this little safe space you've created, and it really does feel I feel comfortable talking about some very private things here. So I appreciate you inviting me and, you know, letting me be a part of this new venture of yours.

Austin Seltzer: 1:54:10

Of course. Thanks for sharing man, of course, all right. So now that you've listened to this episode, devin is such a good buddy of mine, so you know we had a lot of fun talking about I guess, some inside jokes and inside stuff that only him and I know that you got to witness but really just like have a great talk with somebody who's been around for so long and seen so many bands come in and out, new ways of making music come in, old ways out. You know just somebody who's been there, but somebody who just also is very wise and has great feedback and information for us to learn. So one of the things that I wrote down that I really loved about this episode is again how important it is to cultivate a strong local scene around your music. I say again because whenever I talk to Bardo same thing with Beach School Dropout the local scene matters so much. So whenever bands would come through Michigan, they would want icy stars on the bill because they could bring out such a huge local crowd and I still think that that's underutilized now. If you're able to cultivate fans locally and you can bring them out to a show, you're going to be put on a bill as an opener in that area, because you can pack out a stage or you can pack out a venue and I think that that's underutilized. So really cultivate a local scene.

Austin Seltzer: 1:55:46

I loved talking about Devonside, project Shy Beast and the importance of just having another creative avenue for your ideas, that you don't have to talk with your band members and you don't have to like run through filters, you can just do it. And, yes, of course, you do get feedback. But having a creative outlet where you can put your ideas that are not in a band is so, so important. So if you're listening to this and you've been thinking about doing that, do it. Like, what do you have to lose, right? I loved whenever he talked about speaking the hard truths out loud. It will allow for more joy in your life because you're not holding things in, you're just being uniquely you. It will help guide your tribe, your people, those who resonate with your truth to you and those who just don't really love what you stand for away from you and, honestly, that's just how you gather people around you who will elevate you, will support your ideas because they're in line with them. I think that was just hugely important, one of my very favorite things he said though I think this is the biggest takeaway is create a space, no matter what the craft is that you make music or art or anything.

Austin Seltzer: 1:57:20

If you're a clothing designer, make sure that the studio or the workspace that you work in is very conducive of any idea that you have. You can reach and grab the thing. You know where it's at. Things aren't cluttered. If you have a creative idea, you're able to execute it immediately, because it allows you to stay in the flow of creativity. If you're like going to look for a thing or you have to unplug something, to plug something else in, and then you have to set it up, maybe that creative spark or that idea is lost because you can't instantaneously be able to act on it. So just create a space conducive of creating art.

Austin Seltzer: 1:58:05

Lastly, I will say that this is one of the reasons that I created this podcast, but just dropping your ego and allowing people who maybe are more established or less established than you give you feedback and you learn something from those people, without an ego, with just open ears, will allow you to go so much further in life. I can remember so many times when I was shut off to collaboration or creativity from somebody else or feedback or anything from somebody who quote unquote was less established or somebody who was older and I thought like, oh, they're not in touch with what's going on now. Those times in my life are definitely ones that I was growing at such a slower pace than whenever I was open and willing to accept feedback. That doesn't mean that you always have to listen to it, but just being open to it, I think, will always put you ahead of those who are closed off In vice versa.

Austin Seltzer: 1:59:18

Just talking about this, in my podcast I talked to guests who I think, have reached a level that all of us can learn from, and I'm here to just listen and learn from what they have to say, and I don't need to agree with everything or implement everything that they say into my life, but I'm here to listen. I also think that this podcast is a platform for the other side, where I can give back. I've been doing this for a while and I have learned so many things, the hard way and the easy way and from all different walks of life, and I'm here to not hold that to myself and gatekeep it. I'm here to spread knowledge. I think receiving and giving knowledge is one of the ways that you can really really further your career, your life, your everything, and whenever Devon talked about that, I just thought that was really special and I needed to put in this end key takeaway kind of moment.

Austin Seltzer: 2:00:20

Thanks for listening to the Grounds for Success podcast. I want to thank all of the people who work on this podcast and help me out. My team is everything to me, and without them I couldn't bring these to you every single week, I couldn't post on social media with all the clips that we have, and so I thank you guys so much. I want to also thank all of my clients on the Mixing and Mastering side, because without you, I could not have Grounds for Success. So thank you so much. If you're enjoying the Grounds for Success podcast, please follow, like and subscribe on whichever platform you're listening or watching on. It helps us out a ton and I want to keep getting this content to you in whichever way you listen or watch.