Hunter Hayes: Chart-Topping Journey, Career Cultivation, Navigating the Music Industry, and Red Sky Revelations

This week on Grounds For Success we a deep dive into the world of a music industry prodigy's life, Hunter Hayes, a chart-topping multi-platinum singer, songwriter, producer, and multi-instrumentalist. This episode will take you on a roller-coaster ride of pure wisdom through Hunter’s journey, revealing his struggles, breakthroughs, and beautiful relationships with his fans.

First, Hunter takes you on a ride through his childhood growing up in Louisiana, the stepping stones that led him to his record deal with Atlantic Records Nashville. While his accolades are incredible and fun to talk about, it's really his wisdom that is the highlight of this episode. You’ll learn about his creative process, how different phases of an album creation differ, and how he shapes his work based on these variations. Plus, you’ll get a rare glimpse into the creation of his album Red Sky, a deeply personal project that represents so much of who Hunter is as an artist.

Hunter also shares invaluable insights into navigating the challenging music industry. From understanding your definition of success, choosing the right team, and setting and manifesting your goals, Hunter talks about it all. He even touches on the importance of embracing authenticity and personal growth, providing a fresh perspective on what it truly means to be successful in this industry. Lastly, he talks about the groundwork for finding out your ultimate goal as an artist or creative and he talks about the process of choosing all of the right moves to get you there.

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HUNTER HAYES LINKS
All Links Here: https://www.hunterhayes.com/

Transcript

Austin Seltzer: 0:01

Welcome to the Grounds for Success podcast. I'm your host, austin Siltzer. Together, we'll unveil the keys to success in the music industry. Join me as I explore my guest's life stories and experiences to uncover practical insights to help you align with your goals more effectively. Hey coffee drinkers, welcome to the Grounds for Success podcast. I'm Austin Siltzer and I'm a mixing and mastering engineer with over 10 years of experience in the music industry. Today, my guest is Hunter Hayes.

Austin Seltzer: 0:38

Hunter is a chart-topping multi-platinum singer, songwriter, producer and multi-instrumentalist. He's had five Grammy nominations, won several ACM awards, nominated for multiple CMA awards and several ACAs, and in 2012, he became the youngest solo male act to top the Billboard Hot Country charts with his single Wanted. Through our conversation today, you'll see that Hunter has had an entire lifetime of music experience. He can play over 30 instruments. He was basically just a natural-born talent. He got a toy accordion whenever he was, I think, three and just continued to play more and more instruments, and through this story, you will see how wise this dude is. After talking to him, I was rethinking so many of the thoughts that I had come to believe or had been told about the industry and about how you should look at your career.

Austin Seltzer: 1:40

Today, we're going to talk about Hunter's creative process and how he works with different producers and then how different phases of an album have different creation types and how they look and really just how an album comes together for him. One of the coolest things that we'll talk about is how different it is to be indie versus a major artist and, ultimately, how to go about figuring out where you want to be in your career and the things that you should think about whenever you're making the choices whether you want to be indie or major, or who you want to go on tour with, what places you should be playing to grow the career, the way that you want to. All of these things really go into who you want to be one day, and Hunter talks incredibly well about how to do this. Ultimately, we learn about how Hunter entered the music world and kind of where he's at today, and we just learn along this path of Hunter's career what every little nuance of every choice makes to the big picture. I think he has a really great vision on helping people figure out where they want to go and the moves that it takes to get there, and I think that that's the biggest takeaway that you're going to learn from this episode.

Austin Seltzer: 3:06

Alright, let's get caffeinated. Dude, I'm so glad to have you on here.

Hunter Hayes: 3:11

Thanks for doing this on what I would imagine would probably be a day off for you normally, normally, yeah, and then I Really means a lot for you to make time and do it anyway.

Austin Seltzer: 3:20

No, it means a lot that you would do this. You're here for only a couple of days and you have, I'm guessing, a slam-pack schedule, but you made some time to come by and have some coffee with me.

Hunter Hayes: 3:29

Well, yes, coffee, really awesome people and really nerdy conversations. I mean, you kind of got me there.

Austin Seltzer: 3:36

Yeah, yeah, I definitely that was an easy one. That was an easy yes, I'm an easy yes on a nerdy conversation, love love.

Hunter Hayes: 3:44

Here we are. How many episodes have you done?

Austin Seltzer: 3:46

so far. This will be 16 that I filmed, but I think we have six out right now. Great.

Hunter Hayes: 3:54

Yeah, so 16 so far total.

Austin Seltzer: 3:57

Yeah, filmed, yeah. So it's a relatively new podcast and we've already had so many awesome guests.

Hunter Hayes: 4:04

That's the biggest thing you've learned so far, after doing 16. That's a pretty stout number for a new thing.

Austin Seltzer: 4:10

Yeah, I would say the thing that I've learned above all is that almost every single person, when they have reached success like we're talking about, you could ask 20 people what success is and they would say that this person's successful, that every single one of them only cares to be happy. Now, happiness is the biggest success. It's like whenever you have reached X level, you just want to be happy, and I thought that that was so fascinating that it's no longer about money or fame or this or that. It's really just about getting to choose things that make them more happy. I think that's pretty freaking cool.

Hunter Hayes: 4:55

Yeah, I've also seen that. Happiness, sustainability, you know, yeah, yes, here we are. Well, thanks for having me man, absolutely.

Austin Seltzer: 5:07

What brings you?

Hunter Hayes: 5:07

to town. Taping can't say what, but taping something. Yeah, I think that's all I can say.

Austin Seltzer: 5:16

I'm taping something. Oh, you're taping a podcast, dude. Thank you so much. Yeah, exactly, I'm taping this.

Hunter Hayes: 5:21

This is what brings me to town. Yeah, we can't really talk about it but I love that.

Austin Seltzer: 5:27

So I think you were just on a tour, or you at least played a show, I think yesterday or the day before, right Two days ago. Yeah, okay, was this part of a?

Hunter Hayes: 5:36

tour that you were on. No, these are sort of one-offs for the summer we did. I did my first tour, the Red Sky tour, in support of the Red Sky album, which came out in April. I did that in May. It was my first tour in four years. It was the most demanding tour I think I've ever done, especially after being removed from touring, and unconditioned, after four years of just kind of working in the studio at home. So it was life-giving, man, I could talk about that tour for a whole hour in and of itself, just because there were so many breakthroughs for me personally, professionally, performance-wise. It was my three Ps. I like threes and those are my three Ps. No, it really was so life-giving. I was so burnt and so drained beforehand because I had, From the time that lockdown was announced to this tour, there was very little time that I gave myself off.

Hunter Hayes: 6:36

I ran right into work. I just locked myself in my home, which is a studio, and just got to work and just saw it as okay. If I'm forced to be away from the thing that I love, which is playing live, then I need to make the best of the time that I'm given. So I'm going to work. I'm going to work on this album while no one's watching, while no one's paying attention, and accomplish a lot of things that I knew I needed to accomplish and make the best with what I've been given. A lot of people did that during the COVID lockdown. So this was kind of my first and right before the tour man, I had hit so many walls just energetically that the tour really felt like I had come back to life. So I took, for the first time in my entire life, took a month off after the tour Bravo, and it wasn't really necessarily like a month off, it was just I finally gave myself space to do the things that I'd never give myself space to do, like human shit, and it was so rewarding and so eye-opening and I learned so much and then, kind of jumping back into the work, making music, the thing that I love the most it gave me so many sort of like little tidbits of valuable information to put into practice moving forward. So, all that to say, finish the tour in May, really looking forward to another tour soon.

Hunter Hayes: 8:01

But you got to understand like I'm a Nashville kind of kid and what I mean by that is Nashville tours on the weekend, you know we bus call on Wednesday night, we do Thursday, Friday, Saturday and or a Sunday every now and then Most of the time, you know, you're back on Sunday. It doesn't matter what genre like you, just that's the infrastructure. Also because buses used to cost a fifth of what they cost right now. So you can afford to do that. And so my touring was all year.

Hunter Hayes: 8:28

My preference is I tour all year, February through November. We're out every weekend doing at least two shows, Whereas this was a month we did 22 shows in 31 days. That's foreign to me, that's not normal. So this was a lot of things that I wasn't sort of, you know, ready for or slash expecting. It was really great to experience it All. That said, it was very quick, it flashed by very quickly. So I think it's taken a couple of months for me to sort of like you know forgive me for using the term unpack, but unpack it and process it.

Austin Seltzer: 9:01

I do like the pun there and, yeah, I mean that I can understand how, after four years if that's the thing that really gives you life being on the road you had to be for four years just yearning for that and I'm sure that that was such a nice payoff. But it does bring up this idea in my head that if you spent four years making music I know that you're a multi instrumentalist. Like you play a lot of instruments Do you also engineer and produce a lot of what you work on? I did.

Hunter Hayes: 9:34

I do. I worked with a lot of great producers, but the way that I work with them is different per person and I think on this process I learned so much about ownership and what parts of the process really matter to me and what parts I need to take ownership and drive and what parts I need collaboration. Where's the healthiest place for me to look for and get collaboration? And I got to understand my relationship with validation in the collaboration. Some of I realized what collaborations were specifically seeking validation and what collaborations were so empowering that I felt like I was in charge and I felt like I was driving the car and it's not an egotistical place for me at all. There is a significant lesson to be learned in trusting your gut, especially in the chapter that I'm in, and I learned it the hard way, I think in a couple of cases Tried a lot of stuff that didn't work and tried a lot of stuff that felt really natural and still was craving validation because it was a lot of stuff I'd never done before, so sort of coming to understand a lot of that. But I did a lot of the production, a lot. I'm going to say a lot because I'm thinking right now of like my co-producer, ruslan, I was able to come in with these crazy stacked sessions and he was able to help me get the picture out of what was on tape.

Hunter Hayes: 11:15

I guess I love referring to production in the same way that you think of directors, like all of it matters, but what do we need to pay attention to? What's the scene we're painting, who's the main actor, all those things, what's the story we're telling, etc. So I love looking at it that way and I think Ruslan. When I think of Ruslan, I think of real collaboration and there was just a lot of time with me. Every song had, like anywhere from three to seven different versions of itself. Wow. And then I ended up doing a lot of. I worked with some incredible mixing engineers and I also ended up mixing some of it myself, which was a weird like. I am not qualified to do this at all, and yet I'm the only one who can hear what I'm hearing and I can't get it. I can't explain it enough to get what I'm looking for. So fucking I gotta figure it out.

Austin Seltzer: 12:01

I mean that totally makes sense, especially if you've lived with this baby for four years. I mean it's something so close to you. You put so much time. Why, if there's a couple nuances that you can't get across, why wouldn't you just take it to the finish line?

Hunter Hayes: 12:16

Yeah.

Austin Seltzer: 12:17

I mean, I totally understand that To finish off like this chapter of your life and we're going to go all the way back and then we'll come back to this point. But it sounds like you have some new music coming up. I'd love to know a little bit about what makes this next track special to you and what's going on right now, so that we can go back to the beginning and figure out how we got here.

Hunter Hayes: 12:45

So this album, Red Sky, started as an evil twin to my last album, which was called Wild Blue. Wild Blue was the first album that I decided to make. I was at a major label and it was the first time that I decided you know what I'm going to make, whatever I want, with the assumption that no one will ever hear it, hoping someone will right, hoping it'll all get released. But at the same time, the process that I had before was very much vote by committee, 18 people in a room, excel sheets, what songs make the album. I wrote a hundred songs per album minimum and that's how that got done. And so that became a very start-stop process and it was very discouraging for me and it led me to a lot of misconceptions about myself and a lot of just sort of like conditioning that, like not to trust myself. And so, while blue was a chance for me to say I'm gonna make whatever I want and it's okay if no one hears it, I'm proud of it, which is where the tattoo in my arm it's a paper airplane. Like the concept of the paper airplane was you make the best thing you can, you pour your heart into it, you put it all on paper in this particular picture and you throw it and you let it catch the wind and it'll find who it needs to find.

Hunter Hayes: 13:59

It's the separation between art and commerce because I really needed that and so I made while blue and I was just really proud of it and there's a lot of things on that record that I'd never done before and I had a fucking blast, and there's a lot of stuff that I think if people heard it they'd be considering what they may or may not.

Hunter Hayes: 14:13

I don't know what anybody where the fuck anybody's hurt my music at this point, but because it's all over the place, like I get people anyway. So while blue was me experimenting and there was this sort of like alt rock thing that was born because I was I am really influenced by a lot of different genres and at that time I was really going through like I. You know, some of the most played albums were, you know, anywhere from U2 to Tonio and Pilots to, you know, foo Fighters, things like that. So I was really influenced by, I was really experiencing the connection with songs that tap into the angst that I was feeling at that time With the sort of struggles I was, whatever learning about.

Hunter Hayes: 14:56

And the struggle is leaving a major and going on your own path, or Just the struggles of being an artist and trying to yeah, just writing a hundred songs and just getting told no a hundred times. You know it's like okay, well, at some point you got to shut up and trust that. You know, with all due respect, right, I love the people. I mean, I think what I learned in that process was how important it is for me as an artist. There's going to be times where I have to be the one that stands up in the room and says listen. I know that I'm the least experienced person in this room. I'm also the person who shook hands with my fans. I've given them hugs, we've talked, I've looked them in the eye. They've told me stories about the songs that they connect with. All of you guys just got to trust me on this Also. They just connect with you and trusting that. That's a great point. I'm so appreciative that you said that, because I think a lot of artists need to hear that more often.

Austin Seltzer: 15:50

Yeah, and I really appreciate you saying that you are the person at the end of the day that they resonate with. Yeah, you know.

Hunter Hayes: 15:57

So Red Sky was a concept where I was like, ok, I'm going to put all my angsty stuff here and I wrote a bunch of stuff. Wallflower was one of the first songs. That's on Red Sky. But Red Sky is essentially three different albums. Because I wrote Red Sky and then I realized there was this whole other thing that started happening when I again, the more doors you open as you create, the more you learn about yourself and the more excited you get, the more you play it for friends. They're like, oh my god, where has this been? There were like three different albums that I was working on.

Hunter Hayes: 16:26

I love working ahead because it's all different. The writing process is completely isolated from the production process is completely honestly, I think there's a middle ground, right. There's the writing, there's the splatter paint and then there's like the OK, what's going to make it to the movie part? Absolutely, and they're all different seasons for me. And writing in the middle, the writing in the splattering paint, requires so much safety that I love working on albums way ahead of time, because in my mind it's the same thing as Wild Blue no one has to hear it, there's no pressure, no one's waiting for it, no one's judging it right now, and so, but even in doing so, I think a lot of my team really encouraged me to combine all the things that I was working on into Red Sky with the sort of explanation of well, if you really want fans to understand, we have a great opportunity to show fans all of your personalities as a music maker and worth considering what it would look like to have a project with a little bit of all that, and it took me a second to kind of sink into and understand it, because I like categorizing things.

Hunter Hayes: 17:45

And then it became this sort of like three act album that goes from familiar to fresh to sort of like adventurous, and so the next phase is there were over 50 songs written for those three projects, and so there's a lot of stuff that got left behind, and there's a couple of songs that the fans have heard and, by the grace of God, care enough about to fight for, and so we're now at the phase where I want to put the song out called Roses, which is like my sad single anthem and it's like I think it's the most. I'm not going to say it's like the most vulnerable song on the record, but when I sing it I feel like I'm letting people in on a part of me that's very hard to let people into, but it feels very honest. Everything I do has that sort of like bar of it has to be like I have to be able to speak to it on a personal level. This is, I think, pushing that even further.

Hunter Hayes: 18:51

And yeah, I just I think for a while I was like God, it has no place on the album and then I realized no, it's one of the most important thing on the album. So, roses and it's currently my favorite production too it's just one of those things that happens when you. We can go and do it later, but yeah, it's just my sad single anthem for people.

Austin Seltzer: 19:10

Yeah, that I love that, and if maybe it's not the most vulnerable, but if you feel that vulnerable whenever you're singing it, then it clearly is that vulnerable.

Hunter Hayes: 19:22

Yeah.

Austin Seltzer: 19:23

You know that and I'm sure that people resonate with it that way. So I think that at this point we should go all the way back, because I want to figure out what your young life was like, like your childhood, your parents, kind of like how you got to this point and ultimately, I want to figure out the stepping stones of how you became so successful, because of your name is synonymous with you know great music, being a top echelon artist, where I mean people know you. Thank God, that's really good to hear.

Austin Seltzer: 19:56

I mean my girl, cass upstairs said, her 21st birthday was made so incredibly special at a show of yours which I mean she can't remember a ton of it, but that means she was having a great time. And so I want to figure out some of the stepping stones to get there, so that the viewers, the watchers and the listeners can hopefully take away a couple of things and implement them into their life or, a fan, just be able to resonate with you deeper. And so let's go all the way back and can you tell me some about your parents and maybe like your early, early childhood and kind of what shaped that version of you?

Hunter Hayes: 20:37

Yeah, so I wasn't. I didn't grow up in a musical family and randomly, I was an only child. That wasn't random. My grandmother gave me a toy. So the word is, I have heard this story enough to repeat it, so I do my best but I don't remember any of this.

Hunter Hayes: 20:56

But apparently when I was young I would you know, watch my babysitter had a group in South Louisiana live music everywhere, lots of Cajun music and so singing in French. Didn't understand what they were saying, but the music was fun. It's very dance. It's dance friendly, right, and I think it's still the reason that I have to have every 16th note filled in in my production, because it came from listening to Cajun music. But we just watched these people on TV all day playing music and I would take things around the house and make them into instruments at my babysitter's house.

Hunter Hayes: 21:32

And so my grandmother decided to give me a toy accordion for my second birthday and according to my father, like I never put it down, I apparently like started playing along with some stuff on the radio and he like one morning I was playing along with a song and he like pulled the truck over and was like play that again. I did, apparently, so I don't know how to read music. I just listened and I learned by ear and I think that's thank. I'm really grateful for that that. That was the way that I learned music you know what a wicked skill Does that?

Austin Seltzer: 22:06

do you have perfect pitch or just like perfect recreation, like you can hear and know exactly what it is?

Hunter Hayes: 22:14

Perfect pitch, like I couldn't tell you, like how many synths you're off. I could tell you you're sharp or flat on a note and I can hum a note, et cetera, you know. So to that extent I've been told I have perfect pitch. It's a weird thing to claim you know what I mean.

Austin Seltzer: 22:30

Yeah, it's a weird fucking thing to say. Actually, even asking, I was like it's a weird thing to say. But I mean then you know, like people like Charlie Puth, you know like put it out there and that's like a thing we're very proud of.

Hunter Hayes: 22:42

Yeah good, yeah good. I am very proud of it too. Anyway, I just haven't made my TikTok series about it, but so yeah. So I you know, very early on I was learning things and I just wanted more music in my life. Like I asked for a drum kit and my parents were saying it's cause they got me a drum kit for my like fifth Christmas. And then I was given a guitar for my sixth birthday and that just kind of became I guess I say became. Most of the instruments that I have a strong relationship with were gifts at a significant point, right Birthday Christmas. One was an Easter. I got my first bass as an Easter present, which I didn't know that was a thing.

Hunter Hayes: 23:26

You opened an egg and yeah, exactly, it was an. Easter basket with a little mini, what has now become ukulele basses, but at the time it was just little like electric bass with these rubber strings.

Hunter Hayes: 23:39

Whoa, I didn't know that was a thing, short scale sounds like a like a 50s P bass going through like a flip top. That's really cool. Like used it up until I broke one of the rubber strings and it's impossible to find those percent, it doesn't matter. Fell in love with just like instruments and started. There's so many restaurants that have live music in my hometown and so we would go out and my dad would put me on the side of the stage so that I could pretend I was playing with the band and play my little accordion. And one night one of the guys in the band came to my dad during a break and he was like, does he know any of his songs? My dad was like, yeah, he knows these three. And they pulled me up, they give me a mic and I start whaling whatever French I could make up when I was three years old.

Hunter Hayes: 24:23

And then we started doing that more often, just going to different like bands. It's crazy to fucking tell the story, but like going to different like bands at different places, and I would stand side stage same thing, you know. And so then I started showing up at the same like two or three bands performances, restaurants, festivals and it was this one band that we ended up like kind of traveling with They'd do like a four hour set at a restaurant. I would jump in for like my little 15 minutes and do my three songs, just have a blast, and then go take an app. Miss those days. But and then when I was seven, I just didn't want to get off stage. So like by the time I was seven I started like they started booking festivals and you know corporate functions that wanted Cajun music, you know the Mardi Gras theme, all that stuff, and I was like the front man, the front kid At seven.

Austin Seltzer: 25:14

At seven. Yeah, dude my goodness.

Hunter Hayes: 25:17

So like my like obsession with music and just performing. Luckily I was able to figure out I really love this Super early on, before it was like, do you want to make it a career, you know? Do you want to write, do you want to do all this stuff? I found everything very like there's a lot of ownership, especially because my parents weren't musical right and I got to be fair, you know, I played accordion. My mom decided one year that she was going to take guitar lessons and, granted, she was working like two, three jobs, like almost my entire childhood. She was a teacher and she would do so many other things. So one summer she decided to take guitar lessons and every night she would come home and she would teach me the chord that she learned in lesson and so I had all day the next day to learn it and play it and mess around with it and apply it to different songs. That I knew that whatever. And you know, after those two weeks she just never touched the guitar again really and I just kind of kept going.

Hunter Hayes: 26:14

So she likes to take credit for teaching me guitar and I have to give her credit for teaching me guitar, even though she's never touched it since. But total credit, so yeah. So then it just kind of was I just wanted every, so okay. So then it was studio stuff. Right, we started going into the studio when I was like seven, eight, was obsessed with the studio process. So how did you get?

Hunter Hayes: 26:37

invited to the studio, we saved up there was a studio, I guess in a town close to mine, and I had like been in studios and recorded with like other bands and stuff, and I think my mom and dad decided, all right, we should make an album for him and, like, I wrote two songs that make no sense and I'm not gonna say what the name is. I don't want people to Google them not that they would, but Was so. They're actually out. Oh, they're out. They exist in the world. Well, let's go.

Hunter Hayes: 27:06

Wait and you were seven. Thanks a lot. Internet yes.

Austin Seltzer: 27:09

Yeah, dude, okay, crazy. I don't know a single other seven-year-old that was in the studio recording their own songs.

Hunter Hayes: 27:16

Oh, there's that incredible. There's a bunch on TikTok. I don't know if you've seen them lately.

Austin Seltzer: 27:19

I have. There's a ton of them. It is a little different, like that kid. Well, no, honestly I look at God.

Hunter Hayes: 27:25

I forget what's that kid's name on TikTok.

Austin Seltzer: 27:27

Miles Miles.

Hunter Hayes: 27:28

I look at Miles and I'm like man, we would have been best friends at that age, cause, like that is what that was me. I just like loved. I'm not comparing myself by any means. He's insanely talented, but his spirit and his love for his seemingly his love for what he's doing reminds me a lot of just like my obsession.

Hunter Hayes: 27:46

Like as soon as I left the studio I wanted you know the first time I found out there was a thing called an inbox and you could buy a Pro Tools rig for 500 bucks. You know, I was a wedding videographer in middle school, paying for my Pro Tools rig. Like I got a habit. Dude, what a hustler. It was so much fun, man, and I love that little thing. And then it, you know, moved on to the M audio Like. So what I'm saying is I, when I fell in love with the studio and the process, I got a little seven track task cam for Christmas and I never left my room. So then the circle was complete because I could create, I could record, and then I could go play it, and then I could create and record and play. So that became like okay, this is my life's work, this is my purpose, this is what I want to do. This is all I want to do.

Austin Seltzer: 28:34

And it's what year did you find or did you get the task? Cam, cause this is like the. This year set the course of the rest of your life. What, how old were you?

Hunter Hayes: 28:46

I remember I was like 10 or 11, maybe 11?, 11, 12?

Austin Seltzer: 28:50

11, recording your own tracks, and you knew for the rest of your life you were going to be Playing keyboard drums too.

Hunter Hayes: 28:55

Man Couldn't, didn't know how to mic them up, you know.

Austin Seltzer: 28:57

Yeah, yeah, yeah Loved it. That's incredible. It's hard for me to believe in luck. I know that there's a lot of people that believe in luck and sometimes I flirt with the idea of it. I don't know how to explain that you, from that young of an age other than you, were subjected to amazing music Because you lived in such a great hometown for live music, you just Immediately resonated with it. I don't, I wouldn't call it luck, I don't, I don't know what to call that, but you, from such a young age, already resonated with music.

Hunter Hayes: 29:34

I don't believe in luck, in the in the Like, if if it's explained as like it just happened, I don't believe it. Mm-hmm, I absolutely believe that we put ourselves on paths and we say yes to opportunity. We prepare, like. There's a lot of different ways to explain what some people would explain. I think sometimes people use luck as a way of saying I when it, when. What really should be said is and I have no idea how they got there, you know, but there's always a backstory and there's always, even if it's not very well known or very well documented, there's always a backstory. That's my personal belief. Not imposing that on anybody, but that's just what I've seen. So, yeah, like I think what was I getting to? A few different thoughts that came up when you said that, but I Know that I was well.

Hunter Hayes: 30:27

Yeah, I was the people I was most influenced by, whether it was the people I was jamming with or the people that I played with right as me as the front kid. All had day jobs. This wasn't a life. This was a life for them, not like a living. Yeah, this was something they. That doesn't make any sense, but my point is like they would work all day, that would come home, they would load their car, then they would go play music and it was even more works in the work. They'd put it all day but they could not live without it and granted like it was extra income in it in an area where, you know, there wasn't a lot of money to be made.

Hunter Hayes: 31:06

So in some cases it was a necessity, but they had found a way to match necessity with their passion and like, just fuel this, like great energy in a room and and it was also kind of I you know, I felt like it was. It was really rewarding because you're you see people dancing and you know you're doing your job, but you're small on your face, makes you feel good and it gives you the energy, honestly, to wake up the next day and do it again. Right, so that's my, that was my understanding. That's my understanding now. I can't say that was my understanding then, but I Was. I was really lucky to be around people who did it because they loved it, not because it was their living. You know it wasn't a business. They didn't treat it like a business. You know they did it because they loved it and there was their passion.

Austin Seltzer: 31:49

Yeah, that's definitely the the area that you grew up in, because you could. If you were out here, I'd be a little bit different, yeah, but there it was just strictly Passion yeah, passion. Yeah, being around that from such a young age you got your 10,000 hours before you can probably even remember With people who were just so passionate about this, yeah, that that passion rubbed off on you and For sure made you want to do this. Because you saw how happy they were, I'm guessing absolutely.

Hunter Hayes: 32:19

Yeah, yeah, yeah passion first, it just it wasn't. It wasn't a hustle, you know, it wasn't about the first million, it wasn't about, you know. I mean all those things I think we hear a lot about when we start, or at least when I talk to people who are getting into the industry. You know there's a lot of those sort of like metrics and those measurements that I was never subjected to, absolutely as a seven-year yeah for the for the listeners, I, I.

Austin Seltzer: 32:46

This is another thing that I have found with all the people that I talked to who have made it to a certain point in a music career that, again, like most the world would say, is successful. Every single one of them started in music as a hobby Because they loved it and they just wanted to be a part of whatever it was. The Moment they started it wasn't like one day I'm gonna be rich or famous or this or that it's. I can't live without this thing. Mm-hmm, I love this and I'm just gonna do it whatever it is. Yeah, until it gets me to a point. But they don't even think about that point. It's just like I can't live without this.

Hunter Hayes: 33:26

No, yeah, yeah, totally agree with that. I've seen, yeah, a very similar of that. Yeah, I totally agree.

Austin Seltzer: 33:34

Yeah, so okay. So if we're 11 now, hmm, if we're inching forward, let's not even talk about school life, because I bet you didn't give a damn, you were just like itching to be was with music, dying to get out, made friends of the family band that like was home school.

Hunter Hayes: 33:52

And I was like, please. And my parents were like, no, we're not pulling you out of school. Not nothing against homeschool, but just. They were like no, you need Structure, you need Consistency, you need normality, because no other part of your life is going to be normal. Wow.

Austin Seltzer: 34:08

What an insight, yeah. So why is yeah, honestly looking back, they already knew that you were going to be something and they were just like in his formative years. We need to put some structure here.

Austin Seltzer: 34:18

Yeah, I don't some things very, a very subjective term as to what they thought my future would look like, and not that they didn't believe in me, but I Think they just didn't know what to expect, you know, yeah which, which makes sense because, like, if they're not in the industry, it's really hard for anybody to fathom who's not in the industry what that Trajectory looks like, and I think a lot of us are still trying to figure out what that is.

Hunter Hayes: 34:43

Yeah, I mean serious risk of a tough tan side tangent here. But To the point of why we're having this conversation, this is one of the industries many of them exists and this is one of the Best examples of there is no framework, there's no road path, no set the destination in the maps and follow. You know, I mean, you have to figure it out on your own, you know. So, yeah, it was. I'm sure it was terrifying for them, but but yeah, I couldn't give a shit about school.

Austin Seltzer: 35:15

Yeah, I mean, that makes sense, because you were so passionate about an art and art doesn't have a form.

Austin Seltzer: 35:22

School has a form. Mm-hmm, artists don't really like being put into a form, so I that totally makes sense to me. But Now let's move forward a little bit. I'm guess. Well, I know that you did, but I don't know what year. I'm guessing Not that long after you were discovered. When was the first Record deal that you made? Or really, like, what was the first big stepping stone for you After recording some of your own songs?

Hunter Hayes: 35:52

It was a series of small ones. So, like my, let's say, I don't know if you'd call it a career between 12 and 18, but like my musical journey, if you will, that's a also kind of a prodigious way to put it. But my path was say yes to anything, say yes to everything, show up for everything, say yes to anything, show up for everything Damn, let's brand that. Say yes to anything, show up everything. So, but truthfully, that was the, that was the, the spirit take every gig, take every opportunity, jump on stage every chance you get. And it's not like to show off, it's, it's, I think it's because my parents knew that that's where my, that's where I got to just be and, like, looking back, like there's a lot of therapy around, like I was doing and I'm learning how to just be, but at the same time, being on stage is the most like in my spirit, I feel. And so I think it was just kind of an obvious, like subconscious decision of any chance he gets to be in a place where he can just be free and do what he does. Yeah, like, let's, let's try to give him that opportunity. So we chased a bunch of stuff and we said yes to everybody and and played every gig we could and, and so it was a series of you know. So you know you could go back. I mean you could go back so far.

Hunter Hayes: 37:13

But like there's guitar player that was part of the band that was signed in Nashville, knew some record executives. He got a demo From me, he got four demos from me because I wanted him to play in my band for some shows, he called my dad. He said listen, I got to send this to. I really want to send this to the executive that I know he's got to hear this. My dad was like sure, send it.

Hunter Hayes: 37:33

At the same time, or like kind of simultaneously, I had music on my space and I had a message from Cindy form and at Universal Music Group publishing, who said is it true that you're writing all of these songs yourself? Is it true that you're playing all these songs yourself? I'd love to meet with you. I thought it was fake, never responded. One month later she sent me another message on my space and we took it seriously in the next trip. We were taking like routine trips to Nashville, like once every month, every other month, for like a weekend and just meeting with anybody we could. So all these things started kind of converging on. And oh, by the way, and my, my publisher found me via a video that popped up on YouTube of Me. Like this video at the time, like right at the beginning of YouTube, had, like I think, 11 million hit.

Hunter Hayes: 38:18

You know Whatever plays of me playing with Hank Williams junior when I was five years old, so like all the saying, yes, right, still catching up, right, I was 12, 14, now 16, 14, 14, 16, whatever, 16, and she that's when she messaged me. And at the same time, you know, my guitar player, buddy Tony arduan, was part, you know, given my music to a music executive saying you got to hear this, and so then the music executive calls and we start kind of starting conversation, and then I Found an attorney and and the attorney kind of became like my music row dad or uncle, if you will.

Austin Seltzer: 38:57

Oh, and for those listening and watching music row. Yeah really relates to a street that has all of the publishers in Nashville on it and I mean you can tell a little bit more if you want about that. But I'm guessing some listeners don't know. Music row most succinct way but yeah, yeah no, it's like sorry, yeah, so it's common.

Hunter Hayes: 39:15

It's like a really often tossed around term in in Nashville for, like the street that the industry used to primarily exist on, yeah, you could literally walk door to door and just go into these houses that were also Labels, whether they be majors or independence. Like that's kind of music row is the origin of a lot of the Nashville music industry.

Hunter Hayes: 39:35

Not not so much anymore, but Barry Hill seems to very hill. Also, east Nashville like a ton of stuff happened, Like it's kind of all over. There's a ton of stuff in Germantown and like the nations, there's a ton of areas that are that are really popping off music industry wise. So yeah, so it all kind of you know again, just like multiple sort of steps, kind of came out of nowhere. So you just kind of keep like saying yes and and taking, you know, meetings and playing for people.

Hunter Hayes: 40:02

And my first offer for was from Universal. I had moved to Nashville. Mom and dad and I were all looking for houses in Nashville and it was really tough for my parents leave their job my mom's a school teacher, my dad a really consistent job, so that was 1415 at the time and we decided, okay, we've got to move to Nashville. I was. It was when I was a junior in high school that we went to Nashville. I had the publishing offer in hand and I Think that was kind of like my parents way of saying, okay, there is a path. That is the first step on what we can recognize as a structured path.

Austin Seltzer: 40:42

So now, what do we do? Yeah, there's a tangible thing that we can actually like, see.

Hunter Hayes: 40:48

Yeah, yeah, that makes sense and feel and feel so Started. I went to this school and the guidance counselor presented me with an opportunity to graduate early If I would write a letter to the superintendent saying, hey, I'm going into songwriting, which I did, and Got approved, took an accelerated course over the course of that summer and then went straight into full-time songwriting. I knew I was writing for myself, right, but yeah, that's when it kind of started. And then at the same time, the label started kind of talking and, yeah, just started kind of developing the, the music, and I think that, well, that was when I moved to Nashville and sort of planted roots there.

Austin Seltzer: 41:32

Yeah, that's incredible. I I really really want to highlight for anybody watching and listening this to this Just saying yes to as many opportunities that come your way as possible Seems to also be an underlying theme. Except and I'm sure that you'll resonate with this is that if, in your gut, you feel like this is not a good thing To say yes to, you will feel whenever something does not feel right.

Austin Seltzer: 41:59

I would definitely say Trust your gut and avoid that, yeah, but if you're just like nervous, scared, fearful, say yes you just never know who you're gonna meet, where that's gonna go and, like you said, there's no way that your five-year-old self knew playing for Hank Williams Jr Was going to lead to A publishing deal, right. But I can totally see that because of the music that he plays, and I can see that you would have played with him. I mean, he's playing a lot of Cajun influenced music, I mean Louisiana style Crazy, cool music and I'm sure that.

Hunter Hayes: 42:35

I'm sure that was awesome, but okay so Sorry to your point, because I 100% agree with you, because I yes that you can say, say yes to everything and you have to Sort of like help. I like to encourage people who are like just starting to exercise that To trust their gut right and it's kind of like, if it doesn't feel like an opportunity, you know, if your gut feels not good about fear nerves are all part of opportunity there's a different feeling that you get and it's a gut instinct when something doesn't feel right and absolutely listen to that. Yeah and yeah.

Hunter Hayes: 43:09

Yeah, there's a because also there's a. I feel, in my experience at least, that Saying not now is also a valid way to say no, because if it's right, it'll come back around, oh, or it'll come from the right person. So it's okay to say you know what, not now.

Austin Seltzer: 43:25

I actually love that. Yeah, that's a great way of doing that, not now. Yeah it's not a no, it's just a not now. Yeah and maybe it totally is a no, but it's an easier way.

Hunter Hayes: 43:37

It gives you a chance to sit on the sidelines and watch for a second. Yeah, and also, if it's not right, it becomes very apparent and, and as it keeps going, it makes itself known, or it gives you an opportunity to go back later and say, hey, I'm ready. Yeah, let's go. You know that's. That's actually very wise, yeah, I don't know, just for what it's worth.

Austin Seltzer: 43:54

That's, that's great. So tell me some about, like, whenever you sign your your first major deal, like, what does the world look like? And and I really want people on the other side of this to to understand what what it looks like from Just, I guess, creating your own music to now you have a whole team, you have those Excel spreadsheets in 18 people in a room and what? Hmm, how can they see through your lens what that looks like?

Hunter Hayes: 44:24

Yeah well, I mean, there's a lot of I don't know anything, and these people must know what they're doing that you have to kind of navigate and figure out when to step in and when to you know when to listen and when to trust and when to trust yourself. That's all neither here nor there. When you're in that, when you're in that, like walking through the record label door for the first time, um, but it just felt like everything went in. It felt like, you know, I had been preparing for race day and then it felt like everybody was getting in the cars and it was time to get in the car. And you know, when I officially signed I think I was officially I was 18, but it was we also negotiated for a year.

Hunter Hayes: 45:12

I can't tell you how many conversations I had with one specific person who was like you should really just sign me on the economy, cause you know it was trying to whole real estate crash and all that stuff. Like you should just sign whatever you can. There's a thousand people moving to Nashville today and they're just as talented and it's like, and all those things are true, but that's not a reason to rush and that's a talk about a not now.

Hunter Hayes: 45:36

You know I had to trust the one person who was negotiating on my behalf, saying, listen, you're talented enough. Well, we need to make sure you get a deal that's good for you, and if it takes a second, it takes a second. And also like I had met with a couple of different labels who like didn't get it because I wasn't easily defined as one thing, right, like I wasn't easily defined as country, I wasn't easily defined as pop, I wasn't easily defined as anything. So that took a second and I had to trust the process. And then it finally kind of came through and it was actually a surprise. My attorney asked me to go to the office and it's so funny, looking back, because he used the same. It's so valid of a reason for me to go to the office and sign papers that it's still a thing that happens every three months. Now he's like, hey, I got some trademark paperwork for you to sign when you come to the office, and that's. I remember like banging on the door, mad in my room, because I was like why don't I have a deal? Yet I watched a lot of friends around me and I was comparing and I was in this really unhealthy place and I was like why don't. I have a deal which is absurd and, at the same time, like this is something I'd wanted since I was, you know, five years old. So, and short enough, I went to the office and I was signing my record deal, like he was like we got everything we wanted, we're in a good place and you're well protected and we're in. You know, everybody feels good about this, not just us but the label, everybody. It was really. It felt good. And I got to go home and surprise dad for father's day Like hey, signed it, so, yeah, so that's just felt like race day.

Hunter Hayes: 47:07

Then it was like, okay, what are the songs we have for the album? Do we have the first single? Do we have the you know second single, third single, et cetera. And I just was still writing, writing, writing, writing. I had wanted, which was we all felt like a really powerful, the label really believed in it as like a big single, and, of course, this is all hearsay. At this point it's just like, well, okay, well, you know, whatever we'll see.

Hunter Hayes: 47:31

And, and you know, I remember having a conversation with somebody who was like listen, one is going to be the biggest song off the record, but we got to. We can't start with that. We got to start with something else, kept writing and eventually I played Storm Warning, which was my first single, and I played it for my management, like before a meeting that we were going in for like wardrobe and styling and they like for me it was just like it was a perfect combination of like a lot of influences that I love, but I felt like it was too nerdy, you know, musically I was like I don't know that, this is like the big radio hit you're looking for. And they were like this is the big radio hit we're looking for. And I was like, well, hot damn, I don't know anything. And so they loved it. And then it was like, okay, we got the first single, we got the second single, let's go.

Hunter Hayes: 48:13

Cause we also had another song called somebody's heartbreak, which we all felt like was a single at some point. We had a song called Love Makes Me, we had a song called Faith, we had a song called everybody's got somebody but me, and there were all songs we felt like could be singles, we could pivot anytime, et cetera, cause, like in the country you know, when you talk about a single, like you're talking about 52 weeks to get a song to number one. You know it's not a quick process. So by the time you know we got a song to number one, it was probably time to move on to the next record. You know, I really wanted five singles off the first record and I will say we did get that. So rock on, yeah, but that's huge. I was really. I was really excited. Looking back, I'm really proud of that. But anyway, so it was just like you know I, you know my manager at the time, said you know, is there a producer? Have you looked at producers? Do you know what a producer does? You know, do you have you? And I was like Dan Huff. Yeah, dan Huff, talk about dreaming big and really shooting for the stars.

Hunter Hayes: 49:09

I was like I want to work with Dan Huff and so I met with him. He was very gracious, very kind and very in from the first meeting. He was in a hurry to go to his prayer group so I didn't get to play my third song for him. But he was like I'm here, I'd love to sit with you, and so he would come back to the studio that I was working in and just sit and listen, and I would go meet him at his house I'd play him new stuff and I gave him a couple of different references you know, for like he was like what are you, what are you loving right now, what excites you? And you know, let me listen to that and digest it.

Hunter Hayes: 49:44

And I believe it was Thievia LaVita. He had made a record with Rascal Flats, called Me and my Gang, which to me, looking back now kind of felt like a really cool country alternative record when you really have you ever heard that record? I have. Yep, that whole album is really fascinating to study. And like he'd worked on the Keith Urban stuff like the Golden Hour or Golden Hour, I think it was Golden Road. He worked on Golden Road, which I thought was one of the greatest, and he had just finished Defying Gravity, which in my opinion is like my favorite Keith Urban album ever made, and I gave him, I think, mercy Me Coming Up to Breathe, thievia LaVita and I probably gave him Continua. So that was kind of our starting of the relationship.

Hunter Hayes: 50:34

And they booked a studio. They wanted me to go in and make the record. They wanted to see if we could make an album like I made my demos, which is me DIY figured out. So it was just Dan and me and I brought up a bunch of friends from Louisiana that I had worked with, that had given me the keys to their studios, that knew how to tweak drums and get sounds or like help me with this and that.

Hunter Hayes: 50:55

So I was kind of surrounded by some friends and I asked for a place outside of town. So we found this place called the Castle, which is where they had just finished working on Defying Gravity, and it had this insanely gorgeous stone drum room and, oh my God, it's still the best sounding drum room I've ever had the pleasure of working in. Oh yeah, and I even got to use some of the drums from Defying Gravity. Chris McHugh is still a friend and a really cool mentor, but we had kind of like a lot of mutual relationships and he came by and dropped off like a Steve Jordan snare and like one of his snares that he had used on Defying. So like it was just the dream. We set up at the Castle for like three months, which was unheard of, but again, like it was just me and Dan Huff and we worked every day, five days a week, every week, nonstop, for three months at the Castle and then we moved into Dan's house and we worked for another four months same way, my gosh yeah.

Austin Seltzer: 51:57

What a labor of love.

Hunter Hayes: 51:57

for sure my relationship with making an album is it should take at least a year Of like nonstop work With one of the best producers of all time. Yeah, absolutely, that's part of it, and I learned a lot from him in that process. So it was just we started with five songs, the label came in four, and the label came in and listened to kind of the roughs of the first four and they were like, okay, this process works, keep going. You know, go make eight more.

Austin Seltzer: 52:23

And so we did that's that was the baby record that is. I'm sure that people loved hearing that I did. I mean that's awesome. Dan is incredible. I never have met him and then I assisted on a Keith Urban record, which he definitely produced. Just he's incredible. I have seen his guitar whenever he's in the studio. It's just like like literally every amp, every guitar, everything it just comes in and it I know raw, it's just perfect sounding. I mean he's incredible.

Hunter Hayes: 52:56

Yeah.

Austin Seltzer: 52:57

I'm sure that was an awesome experience. So I wanna I know that for those listening you guys have an awesome dinner tonight and I wanna make sure we get some cool little nuggets in here. So, yeah, let's go and talk about for people listening who are artists. I would love for them to know the differences through your eyes and maybe which one you should go with, depending on your mindset of a major or indie and kind of your relationship with both.

Hunter Hayes: 53:37

Man, there are so many. I know this is not helpful, as if you, for all of you creatives listening everyone, by the way, is a creative, and I'm specifically thinking of artists if I were to put myself in your shoes, getting into the business, asking this question, there's a lot of questions and I just encourage you. One of my favorite things about my co-pilot manager is the is I was. I think I was always afraid to ask questions, and that is the most powerful thing you can give yourself is asking questions. If someone thinks that your question is dumb, or if they judge you based on your question, fuck that. You do not need to work with them. They're not an empowering person for you to be around. There's your answer. Don't work with that person If you have to make the best of the relationship, but know that they're not gonna add value to you moving forward. They're just there to stay still. You are there to grow. They're whatever.

Hunter Hayes: 54:46

So, first off, ask as many questions as you can. The smartest people in the room ask all of the questions. The smartest people in the room know nothing when they walk in the room and have the mindset of I know nothing when I walk in the room. That's who I'm really inspired by and I've tried to implement that. I've tried to teach myself that and be better at asking the questions that I feel like I should probably already know about, because it's also always changing. And I can't tell you how many times I've talked to somebody who I thought knew everything and I walk away from the conversation and I'm like they don't know anything either. And I don't mean that in a condescending way, I just mean like they're figuring this out in real time, just like I am. They've just been doing it long enough and they're more comfortable doing that. Maybe they know the questions to ask.

Hunter Hayes: 55:33

Yeah, maybe, or maybe they're just asking questions when I'm not you know. Yeah, exactly. So I guess I say all that because it massively depends on what you want for the season. You know this is an oversimplification and that's what I don't want to. Like set this as like the standard of the tone or this is the answer.

Hunter Hayes: 55:59

Resources, right, like bigger companies have bigger resources. So you know, if you're talking to a label, if their resources like they've got a kick ass in our department, that like secretly helps develop brilliance in you, they see you, they get you and they're there to go on the ride, like that's a resource in and of itself. You know they might not provide all the other resources you think they will as well as that, but that is valuable. So that's something to measure and weigh. And then there's just financial like do are they gonna put a lot of money behind making sure that I get in the right rooms with the right people, you know, and give me the opportunity to work with the people who are more expensive, you know those kind of things? Or marketing department man you know they're completely detached from making the music but they're really good at marketing it. That's worth it.

Hunter Hayes: 56:53

So I think you kind of have to just like determine what currencies are worth what for you and the season that you're in, because there'll be some seasons, right and I'm saying this, I'm not saying this as if everyone listening doesn't already understand this and know this, but I do think that I mean what I've seen is there's some seasons where you're fine, like you're surrounded by people who you just love working with and that is all that matters. You're gonna make great music and people are gonna connect with it. It's a slow growth, but it's a real growth, right. And there'll be some seasons where you're like no, I'm ready for the rocket fuel, let's fucking go. And then it's worth. You know, looking for the team you just and it goes back to. I mean, I've never been like a great business person, but I do think it's just like the simple answers, like you know, the whole, like hire to your weakness, you know. I think it's just looking for that. What am I missing? What do I need the most?

Austin Seltzer: 57:43

Yeah.

Hunter Hayes: 57:43

Right now, you know.

Austin Seltzer: 57:45

That's a great question to ask yourself.

Hunter Hayes: 57:46

That's, I think, the only thing that really matters. You know always like you'll experience all kinds of versions of success. You know, again, defining success differently every season, and that's the, to me, that's the simplest way to boil it down what do I re, what am I missing right now, and how do I get it? You know, not just money, like try to. You know, anytime money comes up as first, like well, it'd be great to have a bunch of cash, of course, yes. And what would it look like if you had all the cash? What would you do first? Who would you hire first? What department would you build? If you could build anything? Okay, let's go find a place that has that kind of department and see if you can, if they speak your language and if they get you. You know those kinds of things. Does that answer any of the questions at all? Absolutely.

Austin Seltzer: 58:33

What I mean. Such a great answer. I feel like that just educated somebody, listening on maybe some questions that they didn't know that they needed to ask. I think that that does complete the puzzle a little, because an indie artist who's releasing today if they're doing really well, like I can think of a couple in my head they're streaming well and they're self-funded, they're indie. Maybe you don't need to change what you're doing, just keep going, unless your idea of where you wanna be is just too astronomically different because you need the funds to market it properly.

Austin Seltzer: 59:12

Getting on radio is very impossible, if not impossible, if you're indie. It takes a lot. And so if that's like the goal, you know, that's maybe something you need to explore. But if you're really kicking ass and you're able to sell out shows and smaller venues and you love that, maybe don't break what's working.

Hunter Hayes: 59:32

And again, like I hope none of anything I say sounds pretentious at all, but the conversation I love having with artists when they're like I really just want that big radio song, I just wanna go to radio and have number one. My question is and what do you want that to become? What do you want out of that? Because I've seen a lot of people who have number ones and it doesn't automatically lead to hard tickets. And if you're passionate is I wanna play as many shows a year, which is mine then you need to start asking the questions either to the team you have or to the team you're trying to build of. Okay, if we're gonna go and get a number one, how do we turn that into me playing in front of 5,000 people within a year, right? Or maybe you wanna go slower. Worth it to consider how fast you wanna get there too, because then you're determining what kind of engagement you wanna build with the people who listen to your music. Do you want them to be excited about a song right now and forget about it, or do you want them to follow along with you and then be excited with you when you do have that big?

Hunter Hayes: 1:00:37

There's so much to consider and the only thing that really matters is what do you want at the? What's the picture? If you could draw the dream picture of where you wanna be, what does it look like? You know, well, I love playing in front of, at least you know. Maybe you've played in front of a theater or maybe you have never played in front of an arena, but you feel like that's like your ultimate goal, okay, well then, we need to build an arena career, which there's a lot more to consider than just when. Do we take a song to radio? Do we want it to be number one? You gotta consider timing, like you gotta make sure you're opening for the right people, to make sure that you're not just opening for as many people as possible, but you're singing songs to people who are gonna go back and listen to that song after you leave. Absolutely, you know and like what is the artist that aligns with your purpose and your values, and you know all those things are worth considering.

Hunter Hayes: 1:01:27

So there's so much to consider and, at the end of the day, it really like it's. You know you challenge yourself. You know the same thing with money, right? The same thing with all the things that seem like the accolades. You want, I wanna, you know, you know, I think we all want the accolades, the awards and things like that. But what do you want that to mean? You know, what do you want the number one radio to mean? What do you want that kick ass opening slot to mean? Well, it means that those people are gonna come and see me at a smaller venue in the fall and they're gonna continue to see me because they're, you know they're and that's one of the reasons that I really loved country was because it wasn't about a single or an album, it was about a human.

Hunter Hayes: 1:02:06

To what you said earlier, which I really appreciate you saying, those are the questions you need to you know, because once you can see it in your head, like believe in manifesting or not, I'm here to tell you it's a real thing.

Hunter Hayes: 1:02:21

Like my screensaver was tour buses. I, when I moved to Nashville, I went on Google Earth and I found every arena in the country, a Wikipedia, what the end stage capacity was, and I made my own routing and I built my own arena tour and I would in my mind every night, would you know, either practice music or you know whatever. I can't remember exactly how I did it, but I would look at pictures of those arenas and I would look at tour buses on my screensaver and I would just like, if you can, if you can, if you can build yourself a picture of what brings you joy and what brings you happiness, that'll give you every answer. As far as for when people ask you, what do you want, you know it's not just this achievement, but it's going to mean that I get to do this. You know, dude, yeah.

Austin Seltzer: 1:03:12

Holy crap, that was just so beautiful, so wise, damn. Thank you. I mean the whole podcast was just to get what you just gave.

Austin Seltzer: 1:03:25

I really hope and I know there's no way that it won't somebody listening if they could just take about one thing from this podcast. It's that, ultimately, the only thing that you need to do is figure out where you want to be one day and envision it so deeply you know exactly what it is and then figure out the game plan to that point. If you don't know exactly where you want to be, it's very difficult to make the right moves. Because, like you said early on, I actually think one of the most beautiful and useful things about country radio is how long it takes to get a number one. The 52 week cycle allows a song to be cemented into somebody's mind for a very long time, so that it's a part, like a fabric, of an entire year of their life before it gets to number one, so that that song really deeply means something to you, as opposed to a TikTok hit that's gone in 15 seconds.

Hunter Hayes: 1:04:31

It tests the listener's relationship with the material, and the longer it stays, the more it means something to the person listening to it. Yeah, for sure I agree with that.

Austin Seltzer: 1:04:43

But then you can like manufacture your whole career around if you want to be playing stadium shows. It's not something that is going to be a pop off on TikTok. It's going to be something that has to be the fabric of somebody's being. Like they relate a moment to something, a song of yours, for a long time and then it is. You can manufacture a tour that you want to be on. That perfectly gets you to that point. You don't go with maybe a viral TikTok person. You go with somebody that has maybe a smaller crowd, but they've been doing this for so long that those fans are deep rooted in that artist and so, because they love that artist, now you're going on tour with them and now they associate you with an artist that they love, as opposed to a TikTok hit, which I'm not dissing on. I love TikTok for many things, but it's just a different tool.

Hunter Hayes: 1:05:42

The same thing is like a radio hit, like you can have a massive radio hit and quickly and mishandle it right. Like the same thing you can do, like these are all opportunities, they're all these discovery platforms and you can misuse it and you can. It can be a channel as long as you know. Yeah, again, like it's, you know what your destination is and you have to pay that, one step at a time.

Austin Seltzer: 1:06:07

Yeah, dude, that was the nugget that everybody in the world, I think, needs, who's a creative, not just in music. I think that that just goes across all creative fields where you want to be somewhere one day, just setting that intention, that goal. And we talk on this podcast a lot about manifestation. I'm very, very deep into it. I mean, this room was once a vision in my head and the podcast was. For over five years. I've wanted a podcast, but I needed to raise my platform mixing and mastering wise to where I could reach out to awesome guests, where I can have these cool conversations, and I needed to feel cemented enough with, like financially, where I could dive into something else. So all these things had to happen. But this room, this podcast, this everything was an idea in my head, as was touring and playing arenas for you.

Hunter Hayes: 1:07:04

Mm yeah.

Austin Seltzer: 1:07:05

My arena might be a little smaller and you know a little different.

Hunter Hayes: 1:07:09

Well, that's a really that's what would you bring up? A really interesting and saying smaller like. I think we're all guilty of saying like of comparison, you know, and we like say comparison is the thief of joy, that's great, but your dream is no one else's and you've got to stay. And that's another thing that having that like really doing the work of focusing on your vision is really valuable because it'll always be the most important thing and you'll never have to compare it to anybody else's because, like now, these things are more important to me.

Hunter Hayes: 1:07:39

You know, kind of to your point earlier of like happiness, sustainability, you know that picture is all that matters. So you can look at somebody else's career and say I mean, yeah, am I jealous that they're doing this venue right now? Yeah, but like, would I want to have it that quick? And like, because maybe I'm scared of losing that audience If I don't do the exact same thing again. You know there's so many things to consider when you, you know, when you yeah, just never compare your vision with anybody else's, because no one else has the same vision you have.

Austin Seltzer: 1:08:08

Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah, dude, thank you so much for coming here today. I know that you're only in LA for a couple of days and somehow you were able to Just here for this man. This is the filming.

Hunter Hayes: 1:08:22

This is the filming.

Austin Seltzer: 1:08:23

yeah, you got that on film right, I think. So we're still rolling, we're still rolling.

Hunter Hayes: 1:08:26

You know what I'm saying.

Austin Seltzer: 1:08:28

Yeah, dude, really the whole podcast coming to that point. That I really think is so monumental for so many people who are asking I want to do this, but how do I do it. I think the first step is setting that intention and that very vivid image of where you want to be and then carving out a plan to get there. And that's to hear it from you. The way that you said it, I think it was the whole point of this podcast. So thanks for dropping that. And if you want to leave us out on what did you write on the chalkboard?

Hunter Hayes: 1:09:07

You can't read my handwriting, can you? Well, it's just it's so interesting.

Austin Seltzer: 1:09:11

You were the greatest storyteller, yeah, so wrap us up with this.

Hunter Hayes: 1:09:14

Yeah, I'll say more about this sort of as I continue to tell my own story. There's a lot of really great resources that explain the stories we tell ourselves. Right, and that's like this is kind of getting into a therapy conversation. But I believe that whatever you believe, you exude, you know, and the story you tell yourself about yourself is the story you're going to tell the world about yourself. And that's with your body language when you walk into a room, your language as you talk about your art. You walk into a party and you're not feeling so great about yourself. That's how you're going to, that's how people are going to perceive you. That's the story you're going to tell them about yourself. And I'm not hard line, not saying make up a fake story. Go be a fake person. Go tell the people how important you are, go tell people how great you are. I'm saying give yourself the space you need to understand why what you're doing matters to you. Because it does. You're doing it because it matters. So have your relationship with that and just know your story.

Hunter Hayes: 1:10:28

I am a nerd, I am a wallflower that makes music for wallflowers. That's why the song wallflower is like my favorite song on the album, even though it's the, it's kind of a secret track that we don't talk about a lot and it changes, right. It changes for me seasonally, some seasons, like I think Rose is a version of that. But I just I really do believe that there's so many people there's a very close friend that comes to mind that I don't know if it was like conditioning that made them feel like, oh well, you're on a level and I got to get to that level and it's all just levels and it's like no dude, like you're brilliant and and it doesn't matter how much time you spend a town, it doesn't matter how much work you've done, it doesn't matter I, because I say a lot, like you know, I did a lot of things on this record that I wasn't qualified to do. But it doesn't matter if you're qualified, it only matters if you care, right.

Hunter Hayes: 1:11:24

And so, getting back to my original point, you know, knowing that you know for for other people to understand, like you have to know it's honestly everything we've said. It's the. You know, know the thing you want, know your purpose and your passion and your purpose and the picture that you want to make for yourself or make with the gifts that you have and the light that you have to bring to the world, and that is your story. So go tell that story and let that be your story, because everyone is the most, everyone is their own best storyteller. You are the only person who can tell your story. So know it and tell it, and know that it's true, and and and believe in it, and believe in yourself, and and be good to yourself and treat yourself like the person in the story that you're telling.

Austin Seltzer: 1:12:14

I love that. I think that that's it, dude.

Hunter Hayes: 1:12:16

Thank you so much for coming on, and thanks for having me, man, thanks for making time on a day off. Really kind of you.

Austin Seltzer: 1:12:23

Thanks for making time on your three days here Absolutely All right. So now that you've listened to this episode, he's just got so much wisdom about how to get your your mindset right, how to set it on a target and how to get there. We also find out that he is just a wizard. I mean, he can play so many different instruments. The way that he talks about music is just so passionate that you can't help but love him.

Austin Seltzer: 1:13:03

In this episode, a couple of the key points that I came away with are say yes to anything and show up to everything, and the one caveat here is that if in your gut, you absolutely feel like something feels wrong or off or I should not do that, don't do it. Your gut is always right. Just trust your gut. But if it's just like fear or something like that holding you back and not something's actually dangerous about this, you got to put your fear aside and just do it. Meet everybody, say yes to everything. You just don't know where things are going to lead, who you're going to meet, who they're going to introduce you to, what skill set you're going to learn. Just say yes to everything. Show up to everything. That's a great point.

Austin Seltzer: 1:13:52

Number two was ask questions. If you ask questions and someone in the room makes you feel stupid about the questions that you've asked, get away from them. They are not supposed to be a part of your team and they're not supposed to be around you. We are supposed to walk into a room with very little knowledge on a subject and leave much more intelligent than we came. Ask questions that's how you learn things, obviously, but that's how you resonate with the people in the room, because you actually care about whatever they're talking about. You learn about people, you learn about subjects. Ask questions. Get away from those that make you feel bad about asking questions. Simple as that. A huge point is understanding exactly where you want to be in your career before you start or before you get into deep questions like do I want to be an indie artist? Do I want to be with a label? Do I want to be playing stadiums one day, or do I want to be playing really cool local venues to 300 to 500 cap rooms? Do I want to be a mega superstar or do I want to just tour? Do I just want to be playing shows? There are so many questions, but if you figure all of this out in the beginning, you can make very strategic moves along the way to set yourself up. For that, hunter said. If you want to play stadiums, you really need to think more than just getting on the radio, more than just having a number one hit. It's cultivating fans from a small venue, choosing the right artist to tour with and then increasingly get bigger so that you are able to cultivate fans that will always show up for you, and that's how you can sell out a stadium. You don't do it by getting a number one hit on the radio. It's not going to just sell out a stadium. So I really loved that. Sit down and figure out who you want to be one day and make strategic moves to get there.

Austin Seltzer: 1:15:56

Lastly, whatever you believe you exude this is so important Just be you. Be as authentically you as possible. It's going to attract the right people into your life who resonate with who you are. But also, every single day, you can walk through life doing whatever your creative thing is without having to think too hard. Just be you. And in saying that, I think a really important point is that you care about your body. You know, you work out, you eat well, you do things that make you feel confident and great in your own skin. Talk to a therapist, you know. Surround yourself with friends whenever you're feeling low, giving yourself space whenever you need it. Things like that, whatever, make you feel confident in your own self, will allow you to walk into any room and just be you and feel great about it. This point is so big. I think it would help so many people if we and I'm talking to myself here just internalize this.

Austin Seltzer: 1:17:03

Thanks for listening to the Grounds for Success podcast. I want to thank all of the people who work on this podcast and help me out. My team is everything to me, and without them, I couldn't bring these to you every single week. I couldn't post on social media, you know, with all the clips that we have, and so I thank you guys so much. I want to also thank all of my clients on the Mixing and Mastering side, because without you, I could not have Grounds for Success. So thank you so much. If you're enjoying the Grounds for Success podcast, please follow, like and subscribe on whichever platform you're listening or watching on. It helps us out a ton and I want to keep getting this content to you in whichever way you listen or watch.