My Miracle Baby - Navigating Surrogacy & Donor IVF
A limited series Podcast to support couples and singles from around the world to navigate the often complex and sometimes overwhelming journey to parenthood via surrogacy. Topics include fertility preservation, sourcing donor eggs and sperm, surrogate experiences and support, costs and timelines , with a more in depth review of surrogacy by country. Industry experts, parents and surrogates are featured in most episodes. Not to be missed if you or a loved one is contemplating a family via surrogacy and/or donor IVF.
My Miracle Baby - Navigating Surrogacy & Donor IVF
The Intimate Journey of Being a Compensated Surrogate: Morgan Louvier Shares her Personal Experiences and Insights
Ever wondered what it's like to offer the gift of life? To embark on a journey that intertwines your life with the dreams of another family? That's what we're exploring today with our guest, Morgan Louvier, an American surrogate who has graciously shared her personal journey. From the reactions of her family to her decision to become a surrogate, to her experiences carrying for four unique families, Morgan unveils the raw reality of surrogacy in the USA. We navigate through the complexities of matching surrogates and intended parents, emphasising the paramount importance of communication and setting realistic expectations.
But the journey of surrogacy isn't just a physical one. It's an emotional one that many don't have first-hand insight into. With brutal honesty, Morgan discusses the emotional investment involved, the hormonal changes she underwent, and how she dealt with not bringing a baby home after giving birth. We also dive into the intimate topic of expressing breast milk for the surrogate baby. Further, we address common misconceptions and share valuable insights on the process of surrogacy, highlighting the traits that are essential in both attending parents and surrogates. So, buckle up for an intriguing, heartfelt, and enlightening exploration of surrogacy from the perspective of a surrogate mother.
Growing Families https://www.growingfamilies.org or call +61 02 8054 0078
Growing Families was established by Sam Everingham in 2014 (initially as Families Through Surrogacy) and has assisted over 3000 singles and couples to engage in cross-border donor and surrogacy arrangements.
As an International Advisory Board creator Growing Families specialises in education, guidance and support on surrogacy and donation globally. It provides legal, financial, psychological and practical professional industry advice as an independent third party in a complex area to providers. Growing Families helps singles, heterosexual and gay couples on their family building journeys.
Contact Growing Families today to find out more about its confidential one to one consultations, holistic concierge packages and global events with guest speakers and industry experts from around the world.
Hello everybody. I'm Sam Everingham from Growing Families and I'm here today with Morgan Lubea, who's an American surrogate. I know many of you often wonder about what motivates women to offer to be surrogates, particularly in a compensated environment like the USA, and we're going to spend some time talking to Morgan today about a lot of issues around the US surrogacy that people wonder about. Just why I'm being misdemeined for people. So Morgan thanks so much for coming on. Thank you for having me Tell me, morgan, where did you grow up as a kid? What state?
Speaker 3:I grew up in Texas, on the coast, in Corpus Christi.
Speaker 2:Have you got a partner and kids of your own.
Speaker 3:I do. I have a husband, we've been married for almost 15 years and we have a daughter that just turned 13 and a son who turned 11.
Speaker 2:Okay. So what age were you when you started thinking, oh, I might decide, I'd like to help another family have a kid.
Speaker 3:In my early 20s I had an aunt and uncle who struggled for many years through IVF and lots of transfers and failed transfers. They did end up actually being able to conceive and then they adopted their second son. But it kind of just put it on my heart that if I could have children then I was going to pay that forward.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, that's great. What are the many concerns you had about the process early on?
Speaker 3:Not necessarily. It's all pretty well explained. The agency that I found had great documents laid out that kind of went over medical information. There's psychological evaluations you do. There's lots of guidelines, mainly that you've had your own children, that you are raising your own children, so it's kind of they did a lot of the research for you, so it's kind of an easy path to follow.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. What about your husband and your own parents? How do they react to you wanting to carry this Like were they sort of worried?
Speaker 3:My husband knew from our very first date that. I wanted to be a surrogate and that I wanted to be a living organ donor. And I told him, if that doesn't interest you, we shouldn't go on a second date. Wow, okay, that's a moment. Clearly I was very driven with this plan.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right. What about your parents.
Speaker 3:My mom was really concerned. She thought you have two kids, why would you want to do this? And I kind of said well, I mean we don't say do nice things as long as they don't have any negative repercussions, so it was worth the risk of helping somebody else. Not to mention that you talk to your OBGYN, you talk to a fertility specialist. That's more than most women do before they even think about being pregnant the first time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, sure, sure. So, willie, was you driving the decision here? Was you something you wanted to do on a personal front?
Speaker 3:Yes, and my husband and I knew after two kids that we were finished, that our family was complete, and so he actually asked me in the hospital Do you still think you would do this for somebody else? And I said, absolutely, give me a year to recover and we'll talk about it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, wow. And do you decide initially you want to go down the independent route or through an agency to match Through an agency.
Speaker 3:I didn't know the ins and outs of it, and to have somebody else's experience behind me and supporting me definitely sounded like the best way for me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, sure Were there particular things you were looking for in prospective couples or singles?
Speaker 3:I didn't particularly know at the time, and the way that our matching was facilitated is that you're presented with a few profiles, and so I think I kind of was leaning towards a couple, just because I liked the idea of having multiple people to kind of work with or them having that support system. So for us it was just whatever spoke to us when we looked at the profile.
Speaker 2:Yeah, what about your graphic location? Did you care whether that was the local or overseas, or?
Speaker 3:For the first one I did want them to be relatively close, so in the Texas area. But then, as I continued to pursue surrogacy, as each pregnancy went well, it started to matter less, because I realized that I was really capable of forming these connections and communication skills without graphical, technical issues being something to worry about.
Speaker 2:Yeah, let's just stop for a second. Remind our listeners how many times you've carried as a surrogate. How many has that been?
Speaker 3:So I have matched four times and I've carried five For my last yeah, my last match. We did a sibling journey.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, so that was the four different sort of families. Mm-hmm, yes, so I mean, what would you recommend if any parents consider to ensure they've got the best chance of sort of getting along with their surrogate? Are there certain things you need to sort of think about in the matching process?
Speaker 3:I mean there's the big key elements, obviously, that you want to consider to begin with, just in general how many embryos do you want to transfer? What kind of prenatal care does your surrogate have? Is she a midwife? Is she seen OBGYN? You want to make sure that you're gonna be comfortable with the pregnancy decisions that are gonna be made along the way, because that's going to be the surrogate's choice with her body, and so don't compromise in the beginning just because you want to find a match. Find a match. That's gonna be good communication skills for you guys moving forward on those very important topics.
Speaker 2:Yeah sure, was there a particular topic you were expecting to form with the interning parents Each time? What did you just? Were you pre-opened?
Speaker 3:I was pretty open. I mean, I obviously put it forth that I would hope that naturally a friendship would develop throughout the journey, without any expectations of it, but, as I said, definitely them being involved. It didn't have to be in person as long as they wanted to virtually go to doctor's appointments. They were open to communication. I'm not a shy individual. There's not many things that are off limits as far as discussions go. So I hoped to match with parents with the same kind of views, and so I looked at their jobs, because it can kind of give you an idea of how they think analytically. And then our profiles that the agency that I've gone through also kind of paints a photo of what kind of family structures do they have when?
Speaker 3:do they see themselves in five years. So it kind of gave you a snapshot of what kind of family you were being introduced to.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's nice, and of those four couples, were they all US couples or someone from international?
Speaker 3:So my first two were from Texas. My third match one of the fathers was from out of the country but he was living in New York and his partner was from New York and then my last couple that I matched with in these last two journeys they're from Australia.
Speaker 2:Okay, well, I was a very different working with a couple from another country versus America.
Speaker 3:It was different in that there was a lot of calculating what time it was some of it else to facilitate appointments, comfort wise in an age of technology.
Speaker 3:It was really great and our first pregnancy was actually through COVID, where they weren't allowing any partners to come to doctors appointments. So it really facilitated itself to lots of video chats and the doctor was on all the calls, they were on all the. They were at the all of the appointments, just virtually, which would have been the same circumstance that they had been 20 minutes from, 20 minutes from me or across the ocean for COVID.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and for the US couples you cared for, did they come to appointments in person ever? Were they also done online?
Speaker 3:Yes, no, they did. My first couple was only about 45 minutes from me and they came to like all the doctors appointments and not all doctors appointments are interesting, so some of them were quite boring, just pop in and out quick checks. My couple from New York kind of took turns, either flying in for kind of some of the bigger appointments, the ultrasounds or hospital tours things like that, but some of them were just email updates how babies doing and growth and heartbeat, yeah, yeah. So a little bit of everything.
Speaker 2:Sure, did you have an expectation about what contact you'd have with their children Once the children were born?
Speaker 3:If it was up to the intended parents again, if the friendship developed. It's nice to be able to stay in contact. I didn't have any expectations that we should, but I was hopeful that we would, and I have. I've managed to still get Christmas cards and recently my third surrogate pregnancy, the couple from New York, her birthday, which is a few days ago, and so they sent me text messages and updated pictures of how she's doing and things like that. So it's kind of just having close friends that you still keep in contact with.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's really nice. That's great. If any parents are unsure about having a close ongoing with their son, is that a problem with the USA?
Speaker 3:I don't think so. I think, as long as you're upfront about it in the very beginning, that either you have some hesitations about it or your viewpoint right away is that you kind of want to be more cautious after delivery on whether or not you keep in contact. Blind sighting somebody at the end of delivery and saying, oh, by the way, we would prefer we didn't have any contact afterwards is probably not the most tactful way to do it. Sure, I mean, I know it does happen, because sometimes people also think if I don't put on the best face first, I'm not going to find a match, I'm not going to find somebody that's going to carry for us if we tell them we don't want contact.
Speaker 2:That's a really good point, and so what's your recommendation? There Are you saying that people should be really honest, upfront.
Speaker 3:They should. They should say I mean because you have a lot of my first introductory, when I was typing at, my profile was open to male couples or husband and wife couples, and I had put in there I'm like having a surrogate might not have been your plan to begin with for family planning. So I understand if you don't wanna factor me in after the baby is born into your life and that's gonna be completely up to you and so therefore, if that was a conversation that they wanted to have, then I was willing to talk about it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, that's cool about dealing with it. Even with the best IVF success rates in this area, still only average. You know, maybe one in three of the transfers Did you have transfers that didn't work or were you miscarried along the way.
Speaker 3:I had for my very first transfer. We transferred two and only one took and of course the intended parents and I were all very naive. We were kind of like, oh, two went in, two were gonna come out, and so it was almost a little disheartening when we left heartbeat we were like, yay, one baby, kind of wondering what happened to the second one. I did have failed transfers. My second match. I carried twins and we tried for a sibling journey. So it was the same embryos. We tried three times and none of them took whatsoever.
Speaker 2:How many times was that?
Speaker 3:Three.
Speaker 2:Wow, wow, wow. I mean, how do you cope with that?
Speaker 3:I think that I again, after that first journey, realizing that I have no control other than taking my medication and going to the doctor to getting confirmed that I am a good candidate to get pregnant, that it's kind of up to those little embryos to do it. It was disheartening and it was sad for each failed transfer you kind of feel like your body's let you down a little bit. Yeah, so so.
Speaker 3:But, it's still. I just have to control over it. I could just do the best that I could. My other three were successful first transfer, first try pregnant.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. And with these couples are you usually using the? With the heterosexual couples, the intending mothers eggs or diner eggs?
Speaker 3:It was actually for this particular one. It was her sister who was her egg donor.
Speaker 2:Okay, wow, right, right yeah.
Speaker 3:And so, then, the rest of mine have all been for fathers, and so they've had egg donors. And then my last couple again, it was his sister, one of the sisters donated. And then the partner was the other part of the embryo creator. Yeah, that's nice.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's where, you know, I'm doing culture we've got to look at. You know, different ways of using a diner in terms of family members. That's just lovely.
Speaker 3:It's one of my favorites yeah yeah. What a bit.
Speaker 2:The maternal bond that often develops between a woman and the baby she's carrying. You know, some critics Don't understand how someone could give up a baby that carrying. Can you take us through that headspace of how you Disassociate or whatever?
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, absolutely, and actually give up is one of my favorite things to talk to people about, because I often talk about the fact that I'm not giving up anything. I chose to enter into surrogacy. It involved a medical screening, a psychological evaluation, a consultation with the lawyer, an IVF cycle if I had wanted to get pregnant. There are much easier ways to do this. I am very invested in the outcome of seeing somebody else have a child and have what I've already experienced, and so I develop more of a relationship with the thought of the intended parents and the final outcome. Then I do necessarily thinking about bringing my own baby home or getting a nursery ready, or being excited with friends and family to have another member of our family, that instead I'm watching it. Front row seats to somebody else's Journey to parenthood. Being in the delivery room is obviously I am the person delivering.
Speaker 3:Yeah but it is a very out-of-body experience where it would be like participating in somebody else's delivery, that the moment that baby is born and placed into its parents arms, you think about your own children and the relationship that you and your partner had, taking your baby home and all those sweet moments that I did not want any more newborns I've had. My nurses asked. She was like are you doing? Okay? We're like leaving and there's no baby. And I was like Are you kidding me? Like they're stuck with a newborn and I'm gonna go home and like get a whole eight hours sleep and see my kids.
Speaker 2:This is gonna be great. Yeah, sure, I thought lots of. So many describe the hormonal Confusion their body has when their body thinks it's supposed to be a baby there after they birthed and it's not right and you get a bit of a Downer for some days or weeks. Is that tough to go through, that hormonal change in your body?
Speaker 3:I think different people can have different feelings afterwards, just to know what your own natural hormone cycle does, with or without a baby. I have always pumped postpartum, so it's giving me a bit of a breath milk.
Speaker 3:Yes, but it's kind of giving me still that connection of I'm helping do something and I'm providing something for this baby that I helped carry that's very nutritious and very helpful Not that there's not a million different wonderful formulas out there, but just emotionally speaking, pumping was a very nice thing to do for myself because I felt like I'm still Helping along the way. Again, circling back to our agency, they provide a like a push present amount of money that you can choose to go on vacation or do something with. So it kind of helps mentally jump start yourself into thinking about Plenty, the vacation or doing a little trip or going to the spa, to kind of help keep you motivated in that you did something really really great and wonderful and you should take care of yourself too, kind of thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, that's nice. That's an interesting point you raised about expressing breast milk. Is that very common in the USA for Syracuse to offer to express milk?
Speaker 3:I think so a lot of them do. I nursed almost all of my surrogate babies as well. I'm not for a bonding connection, but because there's a lot of research on saliva communicating with With the nipple while you're nursing to help kind of create the breast milk that the baby needs, like that they're starting to get a cold or things like that. So when I had babies that were close enough, when we would do milk drop-offs, even two or three months later I might nurse for one of those feedings just to kind of help keep my body connected with whatever the baby might need.
Speaker 2:Okay, and that doesn't sort of Make you bond more with the baby, so it's hard to say goodbye. Does it doing that?
Speaker 3:No, not at all, and maybe I'm just more unique. But I've got a large group of other friends or surrogates, and I mean, if any one of them and had a surrogate baby or their own baby, I think we probably would have happily have nursed any of them as well. Just, it's a. It's there for babies, not necessarily our own babies.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's great, you know work. Before we go to simple surrogacy, tell me one more thing about attending parents. What qualities do attending parents need to have? Do you think to go through this process? Obviously, you know, I assume for some couples this is a harder journey than others. What's a good quality to have a copy of?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I would think realistically them having the ability to put a little bit of trust into somebody else, because it is a bit of a leap of faith to give somebody something so important and hope and entrust that they're going to grow it and be healthy and do everything that's best for that baby.
Speaker 3:So, I think having the support system for themselves, and then I again, I think communication is really awesome. I think the more that they can talk to their surrogate and kind of feel like they've reassured themselves through check-in points and pregnancy that they have made the right decision, who they've chosen.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I like it. I know you now work for Simple Surrogates. You're supporting surrogates. What sort of women do you think make ideal surrogates in the US context? What do you need as a surrogate?
Speaker 3:So most of our applicants and I'm going to go ahead and tell you one in 10 that apply probably make it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that was fascinating statistic. So what are the common reasons why women don't make it through the screening?
Speaker 3:Either they haven't had successful pregnancies or perhaps they've had some complications in pregnancy that disqualify them, or any other general medical condition like diabetes or high blood pressure, things like that. Rest of it is usually, then, just making sure that their partner is supportive as well, because I've had some apply without necessarily discussing it with their partner and their partner's not quite on board yet. A medical is usually the main key. We have had some, of course, just people that are interested, that are asking, that have given them beings up for adoption, which is still abnormal and great, but a qualifying factory is that they have a child in their home that they are raising, because that is an emotional factor to it Not that you can medically ask, carrie, but that emotionally you're stable at home as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, that's great advice. What about, sorry, which was single? Is that possible to carry as a single woman?
Speaker 3:Yeah, absolutely. Usually we want to make sure that they do still have a support system, that either they have families that are willing to help with childcare or that their partner is still active and participating in their child's life so that when it comes to doctor's appointments or deliveries and things like that it's not causing extra stress or strain. Our contracts do cover childcare, but still, emotionally it can be kind of uncomfortable for someone to be going into the hospital and knowing that their child's with a care provider and not maybe their father or their grandparents or something.
Speaker 2:Yeah, of course. Of course that's right. I mean, do you find a woman of Christian faith more likely to be syrupy? Do you find? Is that something you?
Speaker 3:see Maybe 50-50? Even if people are maybe tied to a church or something of that sort, it's not a limiting factor in their matching that they're not also then looking for a couple of the same faith or that are Christian-based. But I would probably say a third of them are interested in making sure that they're caring for another couple that maybe has some of the same Faith, yeah, values. Most of the time our surrogates just want to know that the parents are happy and healthy and in a great relationship and ready to welcome a baby, and that's not necessarily a major factor. And I guess sometimes we discuss it in a way of kind of like planning a wedding. Maybe you make a big long, detailed list of everything you want and then you actually look at your budget and figure out what's important and what really matters when you get down to it and some of those items kind of get scratched off.
Speaker 2:Yeah, of course. Of course you mentioned before having a double embryo transfer for couples. Is that very common these days that surrogates will agree to have a double embryo transfer?
Speaker 3:I would say our agency probably has about a 30% that will apply, but in that not everybody is deemed acceptable to carry twins, that will have a candidate that says she's open to doing double embryo transfer, but she's delivered at 38 weeks and all of her babies have been five pound babies. And so then the fertility doctor looks at her medical records and decides it's in her best interest that she only opt for one embryo.
Speaker 2:Okay, got it, got it.
Speaker 3:And most fertility doctors are leaning more towards single embryo, just for health of pregnancy, health of surrogate, better success rates for baby delivery.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah and ultimately, all of the five premises you carried. There were all singles and it's worth it in the end.
Speaker 3:I had a double embryo transfer that resulted into a singleton. I had a double embryo transfer that resulted in twins. And then my third transfer was a single embryo. And then I tried carrying that sibling journey and that was a single embryo, double embryo, double embryo. None of them took. And then for my final two journeys were single embryo transfers. That took on the first try.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, interesting. And tell me when you were carrying twins. Is it a much harder process for you carrying twins?
Speaker 3:You definitely are bigger, faster, you feel heavier, you feel like your term at around 28 weeks because I was measuring 38 weeks. I worked from home so I did have the availability to take it easy and I didn't have to rush about. But we live in Texas, I live on a farm. I still fed horses every day. I did deliver it 35 weeks, but then you guys will have to do the calculations on this because we do pounds. There were 511 and six pounds and seven ounces, so they were very large, full term size babies. Yeah, twins know to develop quickly, but it definitely is a harder pregnancy. I couldn't have imagined doing it in my last two pregnancies as I got older. It's more of a young woman's game, I think at this point.
Speaker 2:Yeah, sure, I mean you must be fun. We're rewarding that being able to help sort of survivors coming up behind you. Now it's a simple surrogacy. Yes.
Speaker 3:It's very nice, it's great to just have that experience and have that knowledge built in that when they come to you or they have had a failed transfer, you don't have to guess what it feels like. You know exactly what they're going through and what was nice for me to hear. With those failed transfers, yeah, totally.
Speaker 2:Morgan, it's been a pleasure talking to you. Thank you so much for having a chat with me today. It's been wonderful for us and for the audience to really appreciate it.
Speaker 3:Oh, absolutely, Sam. We really appreciate it as well. It was great getting to chat with you.
Speaker 1:We hope you enjoyed this episode. For further information, please head to the Growing Families website, wwwgrowingfamiliesorg.
