Paradise Perspectives
Welcome to "Paradise Perspectives," where island vibes meet personal transformation! 🌴
I’m Riselle, the Traveling Island Girl, and I’m thrilled to have you here. This podcast is all about helping you live your best life—whether that means traveling the Caribbean. starting a new business, shifting your mindset, embracing change, or simply finding the courage to chase your dreams.
Drawing from the beauty and inspiration of my Caribbean home, St. Maarten, I bring you real stories, practical tips, and a whole lot of motivation to help you step into your power. Every episode is designed to empower you to create the life you truly want, with a little bit of island sunshine and a lot of heart.
We’ll dive into topics like career pivots, entrepreneurship, personal growth, and travel—all from the perspective of an island girl who believes that every day is a chance to start something amazing.
Whether you’re an entrepreneur, a stay-at-home mom, or someone who’s just feeling stuck, this podcast is for you.
Join me on this incredible journey as we explore how to make bold moves, live authentically, and enjoy the ride. Let’s turn those dreams into reality, one sunny day at a time.
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Paradise Perspectives
Discovering the Beauty of Tobago with Abe Sutherland
Join us on an amazing journey to Tobago, the tranquil sister of Trinidad.
My guest is, Abe Sutherland, a Trinidadian content creator and entrepreneur, who shares his intimate connection with this hidden Caribbean gem. Picture yourself in a place where time flows like the gentle Caribbean tides, and the smiles of locals are as warm and inviting as the Caribbean sun.
This episode will take you to the serene streets of Tobago, which is quite a contrast with Trinidad's lively hustle, and where each interaction is more than just a transaction—it's a personal connection. Discover the pride Tobagonians take in their identity, a pride that resonates through their approach to life's simple pleasures. Listen to Abe as he recounts his favorite aspects of the Tobago island life, from the joy of barefoot strolls on sandy beaches to the ease of forming genuine friendships with those you meet.
Get in touch with Abe on Instagram and make sure you follow I Love Tobago TT, which he manages, for all Tobago travel-related information.
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For those looking to visit Saint Martin, get your copy of the Ultimate Local's Guide to Saint Martin here.
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you know, when I started this podcast, my intention was always to educate the visitor on the different caribbean islands share our culture, our food, our customs, you know but also to be a platform for caribbean locals where they get to share their favorite things about their particular island and thus help you, the visitor, have a more authentic experience when you visit the region. And so far, in doing what I do, I myself have learned quite a lot about the islands, and this episode isn't much different. I got schooled, I must say yet again. My guest, abraham Sutherland, or Abe for short, is a Trinidad national who has fallen deeply in love with the Sister Island of Tobago. Now, we hear a lot about Trinidad, right, but rarely do we really hear about the Sister Island, tobago. So this episode is going to change all that because, get ready, we are going to discover more about this particular island, because we are about to get an introduction of a lifetime from Abe, and I guarantee that at the end of this episode, you will be on Expedia, kayak, bookingcom, whatever you use, whichever platform you use to plan your vacation, you are going to be on it to plan your vacation to Tobago, trust me. So get ready, grab your favorite beverage. Sit back. We are lifting off to Tobago with Abe.
Speaker 1:Welcome back, my listener, and thank you so much for lending me an ear today. And we, as I said in the introduction, we are about to head to Tobago, and if you don't know what Tobago is, tobago is the sister island I should say to Trinidad. So it's always Trinidad and Tobago. But today we're not focusing on Trinidad, we are focusing on Tobago. And to help us do that is my new friend, abe Sutherland, and we were just talking and laughing about this because Sutherland, like the actors right, yeah, that's correct Amazing. So I am so happy that you're here, abe, because I know that you're going to guide us to, you know, coming to visit Tobago one day and discovering all of the beauty that you have discovered yourself. So let's start first by you introducing yourself. Who is?
Speaker 2:Abe? Oh, that is a very simple question. Just a happy man. I'm just a happy man, that is just it. But in my professional space, I'm caribbean content creator, and I like to define that as someone who's uh, whose responsibility is to capture the essence of the caribbean and everything that the islands has to offer. Um, I'm an entrepreneur as well, so I do have my hands in other businesses, specifically in the marketing, advertising and digital transformation space. Um, but my love is the caribbean, my love is the caribbean content. That is like if I could do nothing else, but that I will do just that alone, you know I totally feel you on that.
Speaker 2:I I just a hundred percent with you on this yeah, you know so, um being a caribbean creative, you know being blessed to work, uh, in some really lovely spaces um to get to travel, get to go to like events, festivals, etc. I work with brands as well, locally here um my clients. They fly me out, so nicely done.
Speaker 1:If I could give you a high five right now, I would nicely Nicely done, I think because a lot of this is one thing that a lot of people that just watch our stuff think that that's what we do, and a lot of Caribbean content creators, by some of included, struggled with that for a very, very long time that we weren't getting actually paid to travel anywhere. It's like that is one of the hardest things to actually achieve when you're a caribbean content creator, or a content creator in general, as long as you're into travel to get brands and and sponsors, to actually fly you out anywhere.
Speaker 1:It's super hard, so I am, so I like, I'm giving you like two, two digital two digital high fives right now, because very well done. Abe Bravo Yay.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much. I mean it's been a blessing.
Speaker 1:Of course I can imagine. Okay. So I have been swallowing up all of that information that you've been putting up there about Tobago in general since we're talking about Tobago today. You've been putting up there about Tobago in general since we're talking about Tobago today. But you know, you shocked me in the beginning, when we were before we started recording. You kind of shocked me because I just kind of like and this is why I don't like assuming, because I always say assuming to assume is to make an ass out of you and me but my mind went there and I was like, yeah, well, you know, if he's putting out all of this information about Tobago, he must be from there. And then you shocked me. You told me no, you're actually from the main island, trinidad. So explain to me, where did this love for Tobago come from?
Speaker 2:Oh man, like traveling between Trin and Tobago is. I mean, it's custom in our society. Unfortunately, I didn't get to experience Tobago until I was about 18 or 19 or something like that the older years, so when everybody's already been there. I got to experience it at the later part of my it's just the later part of my life, but at the older part of my life. And when I got here I was just like this is amazing, like just to know that this was just a 20 minute plane ride or through a boat ride and not seeing it and experiencing it for the first time. So I got fresh eyes on the space itself and I was just in awe. Everywhere you go into beagle and I mean everywhere like if, even if you're walking to the shop out the road, you're gonna see something that'll make you go in tobago. And I mean everywhere, like if, even if you're walking to the shop out the road, you're gonna see something that'll make you go wow oh my, it's just that beautiful of a place.
Speaker 2:You know, um, I always say tobago has a little bit of everything that all the islands have not putting on all the islands, but what I'm saying is you want white sand beaches we got that. You want the mountain stubs we got that, you. But what I'm saying is you want white sand beaches we got that. You want the mountain stubs we got that. You want rainforests, you want swamps, you want lagoons, shallow and on island water. We have a little bit of every single facet as to what people travel to the other islands for. Stop it.
Speaker 1:You're just making me hungry for Tobago right now.
Speaker 2:Wow, making me hungry for tobago right now, wow. So when I came across there for the first time, I saw it, I was like yo, I need to figure out a way how to. Probably at the point in time, I didn't recognize it. You know and I always credit sin martin that I love sxm site. As a matter of fact, my business is mean because of that this is you see that?
Speaker 1:is the one thing is like when you send me your information, because, of course, I can only see what you post, so I didn't really find all of that info about you. So I asked you to send me something before we started this podcast episode and, um, that was the one thing that shocked me and I was like, what say Martin? You just know that St Martin had such a big influence on you starting to do what you do.
Speaker 2:now tell me all about that so in 2015, my very first trip outside of the country. So this is now me finally leaving the shores of Trinidad and Tobago and I'm heading across. I was going to Angola for just a few months, so I was heading all the across there with my uncle and, of course, well, when we fly from trinidad, we have to pass through st martin before we go, and touched on in st martin and he had some shopping to do because he was living in angola, so he had some shopping to do. So, you know, we got a rental, we drove around the island, we got lunch, we saw the I love sxm sign and I was like yo, this is amazing, is amazing. And I got information.
Speaker 2:The information was at a point in time, it was flowing, I could have seen content and we were having a really interesting conversation, because he was always one of those persons to spur up thought conversations, you know, and I was saying like, how come we don't do anything like that back home in Toronto, bigelow? Like I mentioned, we were chatting previously. We were very late to the digital marketing game, um, as a, as a society as a whole, and he was like but you never do anything and, I will admit, as trimbegonians, we could be a bit complacent, we could complain a little bit, a little bit too much sometimes. And he was like man sometimes when you see that there isn't anything in a space, that is opportunity there, you know. So after hanging out in st martin and angola for about two months or so, you know I was back and forth. I blend into places really easily, so like I was living there.
Speaker 2:So when I came back home, I came back home with fresh eyes. Of course I saw tobago in a different space and I'm like yo, I saw things like that when we traveled. We need to somebody needs to capture that, you know and start to develop skills, starting to get into the photography, the videography etc. And then it just kind of grew from there. You know, we started to acquire the skills etc. So I kind of grew and now we're in a position where we could, you know, help others and provide certain services that's amazing, well done.
Speaker 1:I mean, yeah, I, I just it resonates with me so much. A lot, of, a lot of what you're telling me is it resonates with me as well. It's like I started off as a caribbean content creator. My plan was to travel all over the caribbean and brands will probably fly me over and blah, blah, blah blah, oh, yeah, you know that's what we get into it for.
Speaker 2:And then all of a sudden hard reality Like no, you're not, You're not, Yep.
Speaker 1:The hard reality is no, brands are not going to just fly you out just like that. You need to like really Exactly. So yeah, I'm happy to hear you say that, but it is. I am my most happy making creating content for my home, st martin, and you are doing the same thing for tobago, even though and I think that's where you and I are kind of similar as well I'm from curacao, but I've made st martin my home and st martin is like oh, so much is everything to me. So I think I kind of like have that feeling that Tobago is that for you as well, even though you are not from Tobago, but but technically you are from the same country, it's, it's called.
Speaker 2:Trinidad and Tobago you know, we say it.
Speaker 2:You know, we live on the and between the Trinidad and Tobago. We live on the right, between, um, yeah, I mean, it's really been a blessing. Uh, I'm, of course, starting off working here. I always say, when you go into these spaces, you have to show your value, you have to add value to people's lives. So the I I mean, even though it's one country, at the end of the day, tobago has its people. It has, it has its way of doing things. We are one country, but the cultural. There are certain cultural differences that you can see between the islands, you know.
Speaker 2:So it was learning how to adapt and I learned that, of course, being out in St Martin and Angola how to adapt your mindset, to accept what is. You know, move with an open mind. You know You're not there to compare or contrast or be like, oh, we just do this, like this. No, you're there for the experience. So you just open your mind and you welcome it and with that approach, you get you adapt to the culture really easily. And tobago is that place as well too. You know I I mentioned you can walk off the plane, like you can leave where you are. Now it's wednesday if you catch a flight now. You come here. By the end of the day you probably buy somebody's home eaten or somebody's inviting.
Speaker 1:This is giving me anguilla vibes. Yes, this is totally giving me anguilla vibes right now they're very similar as well too.
Speaker 2:Yeah, after they go by. My next love is anguilla. I really do have a love for that island as well too. Um, I have a lot of family in angola also, you know, so I do have a love for that island as well too. I have a lot of family in Angola also, you know, so I do have a really love connection for that island.
Speaker 2:But it's just the simplicity in life that we enjoy here in Tobago that is unrivaled. Nothing, nothing is too much of an issue. Yeah, so, like I say, it's just that ability to just fall into the space. When you arrive, you could jump in a taxi. You don't need a guided tour. Now, of course we have guided tours, yes, but if someone wants to just pick up and uproot their entire life and just assimilate to a society, tobago is just that place.
Speaker 2:I know people who've been here for less than 24 hours and they're already barefoot by the bar right now, sitting down just with new friends I'm talking about. People are meeting their husbands, they're meeting their wives here because they're just falling into this space so easily, and I don't know anyone who has ever been to Tobago only once in their life. It's just one of those places that you just keep coming over and over and over again. We don't have the beautiful resorts like the maho beach and these. We don't have that type of um. We are known for beautiful villas. I think we have some of the most beautiful villas in the caribbean um. We have hotels, yes, but the local living is what, what, what, what.
Speaker 1:We, we thrive on the fact that you could just walk on the road, but you said the magic word right there. I mean, you said you do not have the beautiful resorts and the one thing that popped into my head immediately is like thank God, that's not what I'm looking for.
Speaker 1:I know that a lot of people kind of like feel safer or more comfortable in big resorts. And you know I'm not opposing to that at all. It's like I'm not judging you. It's like whatever, whatever floats your boat. Really, if that is where you like to be, then totally. But for me I love that local and immersing myself into the local culture of where I am.
Speaker 1:So if you are selling tobago right now to me, completely because you're telling me that I can get there. And one first of all, I can go're telling me that I can get there. And one first of all I can go barefoot as soon as I get there. Yes, please, because I'm barefoot every day I had a double.
Speaker 2:I had a double's on me this morning and, you know, funny enough. Sorry to cut you, but I'm having my doubles. My foot is in the water.
Speaker 1:Okay, stop it Don't. You can't tell me Dad that you had doubles, just like oh yeah, well, you know, I had doubles.
Speaker 2:What's wrong with you, boy? Listen.
Speaker 1:Doubles is like oh my God, Doubles is. I don't even have to word for doubles, because doubles is like it's the itch.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:It's like they're just going over it, like I was just having my doubles by the beach. I was like what the hell, look at this one.
Speaker 2:My client took call me and she was like I'm going to be a little bit late. I was like you know what? That's cool, that's perfectly fine. We run politically fine, we run on island time around here, and when I say island time, it's not necessarily actually late. But you, you don't force to rush to something and sometimes you have to realize that you need to stop as well, so it's probably the best. Um, but yeah, just grab me a doubles and I'm with my feet in the water this beautiful wednesday morning. Sun is out, the water is cool, the shades are overhead and I'm just having a complete one. I'm like this is not normal.
Speaker 1:Well, you know, I just we shouldn't say that it's not normal, we should make it normal. We should normalize this and especially us island, people who actually live where other people pay money to spend their vacation. We live here and we still don't do this on a daily. We should, we totally should, oh, wow, okay. So you just mentioned another thing that you know people go to tobago, they fall in love and you are no stranger to that concept yourself, young man.
Speaker 2:You were just telling me your fiancé is from Tobago. Please do elaborate. That's. That's a few days ago. We were having a good laugh. I was like we were meant to be together. I mean, think about it yep, yep, I agree.
Speaker 1:I don't even know you and I agree. Hey, listen. So you know. We keep talking about trinidad and tobago and you said something very interesting just a little while ago. You said that there's still little differences. So what would be like the five differences that you can? Can you name five differences between trinidad and tobago?
Speaker 2:yeah, um. Well, first and foremost, I think I mentioned the ease of living in tobago. It's a lot easier in tobago, um, and people spend two hours plus in traffic in trinidad. Sometimes you forget that you're on the island. You live, trying that it is. It's commercialized, it's it's still a very beautiful island. Trinidad it's still leaps and bounds ahead. It is really beautiful. It's not mad, but it's a gorgeous island. Um, just the the ease of of living. It's a lot easier in in tobago than it is in trinidad. In Tobago, you get a city beach. Everywhere you turn, like literally every single way you turn, you see the ocean.
Speaker 2:Unfortunately, trinidad is not set up like that. Majority of the population functions in the middle of the island, the center of the island or the interior of the island itself, as opposed to the surroundings or the water's edge itself. So you have to. That's a little bit um. Another difference is doing business in trinidad, um, compared to tobago. In trinidad I can send an email, I can do business online on the phone, etc. I never even meet a client, but work is done um, not so in tobago. They are very personal, meaning that, um, you can promise them the world, unless you actually take your time to meet someone face-to-face, unless they we call it a failure. Vibes.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, yes, shake their hand.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So while Tobago, while Trinidad might be more transactional, tobago they have that intimate space. So it's really so, even when you do business, you do business with people that you trust, that you actually trust Wow. So that's another difference as well. Tobago itself, tobagonians are very proud people, so it's something that I, as a Trinidadian, had to learn to respect and understand as well. Trinidadians, they are proud people as well too, but they function a little bit differently. I mean, trinidadians tend to be a little bit more go with the flow. They will adjust, they will adapt.
Speaker 1:Tobagonians are Tobagonians anyway, wow, okay, okay.
Speaker 2:Which I do give mad props for, because sometimes you know, even as a a trainee, you hang out with some foreigners and all of a sudden you find yourself talking differently.
Speaker 1:It happens to us as trainers.
Speaker 2:But that's what happens to us as people. We don't even recognize that we do it sometimes. You know not to beg on your own state You're going to get really they're to beg on. They'll let you know that.
Speaker 1:Hey, I love that, I love that pride in country. I've seen that in, you know, because I think that a lot of us, because tourism is our bread and butter, we kind of like tend to forget to kind of like step into our own space and own it, you know, with pride. And I've only seen it, like in a few places that I visited in the caribbean, like, for instance, um puerto rico has that like so much, you know, like they really are proud to be boricue.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:It's like puertoricans have it, uh, anguelans have it. So I feel like it's like there are places, especially especially like St Martin, became a little bit more into mass tourism and kind of we kind of like lose, we don't stand our ground a lot, I feel, you know. So yeah, I'm totally, I'm really surprised to hear that, but also very happy to hear that Tobago is. The people from Tobago kind of like really are proud to be from tobago. Now, what size is tobago?
Speaker 2:oh, that's a good question.
Speaker 1:Let's, let's google here let's, let's you know, that is like the one question I had. I asked most islanders and they're like I have to Google that yeah in Tobago.
Speaker 2:The whole area is the boat islands is 5,131 kilometers squared. And in Tobago specifically, do they have it in square?
Speaker 1:miles. So I just I can not that I would know. Yeah, what is it in square miles?
Speaker 2:1,981 square miles is 1,841 square miles is Trinidad and we have about 120 square miles. That is Tobago. So not very large, not very large Shut up.
Speaker 1:Abe Just shut up.
Speaker 2:I can't believe you're saying we're not large.
Speaker 1:What do you mean not large? Here I come with my tiny little 37 square miles, and you want to?
Speaker 2:tell me that 100 and something square miles is not large.
Speaker 1:It's like when you said Trinidad is a thousand something. I'm already thinking about Jesus Christ. That's mainland.
Speaker 2:I mean we are one of the. I don't think we're a big island. I mean, when you think about Puerto Rico, jamaica, cuba, these places, those are big islands.
Speaker 1:They're a tad bigger than you all.
Speaker 2:You know, but Tobago, you can still drive it in a day. It's going to be a long day, you can still drive it in a day. You can circumnavigate the entire island and we have the blessings of having the Caribbean Sea as well as the Atlantic meet directly at the point of Tobago. So there are points on the island you can actually see where the oceans, well, they try to meet, they don't mix. So you can see a direct line on that point there, partially in the Atlantic, partially in the atlantic, partially in the caribbean sea, um, so you gotta see both sides of the island and, like I say, that's based on which part on the island you are. You see something completely different wow, beautiful.
Speaker 1:Okay, so I have to ask what is your like? Probably one of the most difficult questions I'm gonna ask you, um, is what is your favorite thing about Tobago?
Speaker 2:The ease of living. I'm going to go right back. That's my default answer the ease of living. Like I said, nothing is ever too complicated across here. Not that we don't have struggles, not that we don't that things aren't hard. We have different things that we deal with from the business side, etc. Um, but making things happen as simple as as a phone call.
Speaker 2:I do 90 of my business by the beach bar, meaning that oh my gosh, I can imagine somebody like, oh no, you talk to that fellow across there and that's how you get business. And I'm talking about, like I just came up for meeting, just signed up, a new, um, a new client, villa Azalea Congratulations, well done. That's a seven-bedroom Italian-style villa overlooking Black Rock, most quarter view of the sunset. And I met that guy on the beach because one of my partners was on the beach. Wow, we had a really hot school. The owner is a guy from England. He's been coming here since he's been a youngster and, um, we met, we had our business, we agreed, we drank a beer and it was business. So just the ease of doing that is what I love most about tobago and, yeah, it really like I say, once you build that trust and you get those business partners, you have your friends for life yeah, um is it.
Speaker 1:Is it that people in tobago kind of like, are they do? Are they trusting? I mean, I I feel like they're not. Yes, they're inviting to to foreigners, but not exactly trusting very fast. Is that true or am I just assuming something that's not?
Speaker 2:no, tobagonians have that spirit of discernment. Immediately and from the time they meet you, they'll know if they trust you and okay, and it's a bit of a protective, protective mechanism, I mean I think all of us have it in in one way or another it's like, yeah, when you're living on an island.
Speaker 1:I think we think we've had way too many con people coming across and bringing us all kinds of really nice stories about the mainland and then yeah, no.
Speaker 2:That's exactly it. Just even when you come across and you see how we live, I tell you we live in a very simple, very easygoing lifestyle. People are of the opinion that you're not very knowledgeable, that you're not very intelligent, and Tobago is one of the most highly educated populace in the Western hemisphere. From the foundations of our society, from the gain of independence, our founding fathers put education as our main priority. So education is a hundred percent free from daily levels straight up the tertiary education so that's amazing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you might see somebody in short pants, but no, that person has about three degrees on a doctor exactly yes, I think yeah never when you're in the caribbean.
Speaker 1:Never judge a book by its cover, never, ever that is the worst thing you can do. It's like that person. We will sit down with that person, just assuming that that person didn't go to school. It's just barefoot walking around and they'll open their mouth. They'll just bury you. They'll just bury you in information that you probably didn't even know yourself. So, please, exactly.
Speaker 2:Even our officers in Trinidad and Tobago. I'm talking about our central government our prime minister is a born Tobagonian.
Speaker 2:Our chief justice is a born Tobagonian. The Speaker of the House of Parliament is a Tobagonian. Just so many prominent figures. The only person to be both prime minister and president of Trinidad and Tobago is a Tobagonian, Arthur Napoleon Robinson, who our airport is named after. So Tobago is a Tobagian after Napoleon Robinson, who our airport is named after. So Tobago in itself has been a main contributor to our society itself. Even though it's the small of the island, Tobagonians do still hold a lot of power, a lot of influence in our political atmosphere and environment here as well. It's a shared, because you come to Tobago and you still see Trinidadians operating in particular spaces as well too. So we find that way to find the balance.
Speaker 1:But you know, yeah, good, let's, let's get a little bit into. Oh, my gosh, it's like my, my elbow kind of like hit the table. So, um, let's get into the little details. Um, about you know the facts about tobago before somebody gets there that they need to know, like, what side of the road do you guys drive on? Uh, what's the currency that you can use, um, and what, which parts, or? Uh, you know you already mentioned about the, the accommodation styles that you have.
Speaker 1:You have um villas and you have hotels. You get boutique hotels most probably because it, it, just, it, just. To me it just screams boutique hotel location yeah, definitely yeah definitely.
Speaker 2:I mean when you, when you get to tobago, uh, of course, we drive on the right hand side of on the left hand side of the road, not the right hand side. Uh, like st martin I was, uh, oh that was a shock for you like oh, why you didn't you know?
Speaker 2:uh, no, we drive on the left-hand side of the road. Um, of course, we have our local currency. Um, trying to make with dollars, which translate if it is here using us, it translates just a little under 70 to 1 US dollar. So keep in mind that convention rate there. We do have all the facilities available. So, even if it is you're spending with your credit card or if you're traveling with your credit card from abroad, we can accommodate those things. We do have the facilities in place for that. In terms of accommodation, yes, we do have hotels. They are not the Four Seasons or the Kapchurugas or the Maho Beach, but we do have the Maho.
Speaker 1:Beach.
Speaker 2:But we already established.
Speaker 1:We don't want that. If we're going to Tobago, we don't want that anyway. Yeah.
Speaker 2:We do have hotels. We do have boutique hotels as well. Some of the most beautiful boutique hotels I believe we have, like Mersibuku, that is right on the beach, so all the rooms are oceanfront, so you wake up with the sea right by your feet. We have things like that when you get here. I do advise if it is, I do advise persons to get a rental, get a car.
Speaker 2:Even though the island is small, things are a little bit distant between each other so the distance between grocery and, and it's not not might not be a simple walk down the road. You, you should probably drive. I mean, I see people walking, but the sun be different out here oh yeah, the sun be burning. It's what we say you know, and and good thing about getting a car, like I say, you can circumnavigate the um the island and do beach hopping. We have lots of beaches. We have beaches. We have white sand beaches, bronze sand beaches, pink sand beaches, black sand beaches. We have how many beaches actually?
Speaker 1:do you know how many beaches somewhere in the 30s? Uh, yeah, I bet you do. So we have 37. You must have like much more yeah yeah we have what's about?
Speaker 2:I'm only saying I don't know the complete number.
Speaker 1:You're probably like and yeah, well, I think antigas. Oh, I'm trying to remember what the size of antigas, but antigas got like, antigas got 356 or something. It's like one beach for every day of the year.
Speaker 2:What are you going to do with?
Speaker 1:all them beaches Can we get one place.
Speaker 2:Can we have a beach Share Antigua? Can we have a beach Share A lot man.
Speaker 1:You can't have all them. Beaches, what's? Wrong with you, hey, so oh my gosh, antigua's got some beaches out of this world, but the way you're describing the beaches there in Tobago, I'm like okay, all right, that's it. I am cheese, I'm bread, it's like my. My list for Caribbean islands that I haven't been to yet is getting. Every time I do a podcast episode, it gets longer.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah, and then even to places that I've already been to. You know, it's like let's talk about how the easiest way is to get to Tobago, Because, of course, I don't there's an airport, obviously, because you just mentioned flying in but is it big enough that you can fly with a large airplane in? Probably yes, because you are bigger than Samartin. If Samartin can accommodate at 737, you can. Yeah, okay.
Speaker 2:So yeah, we've established that. Yeah, we do have the infrastructure, so coming in, of course, we have our local Caribbean Airlines, which feels from trying to be provided with Caribbean Airlines as a term.
Speaker 1:We're going in, oh look look, look, look, it's like you remember you're a Trinidad man, right, you remember you're talking as you even said we, as in, you're from Tobago, born and raised. It's like I love that. That's what I do. It's American too. It's like I'll be talking to people back home.
Speaker 2:I was like, yeah, we yeah, so our carriers, they operate in most caribbean territories. Um, if you're coming from caribbean, you want to come to tobago. Um, if you're coming from the us, of course you can fly out of gfk, you can also fly out of miami, you can fly out of canada with caribbean airlines as well. So, um, we do have, uh, things like copa. We do have a couple other european airlines, airlines that flies directly into Tobago, so straight out of England. So they are flies directly to us if you're coming from Europe and those places as well. If you're coming from Dubai, I don't know, I guess you just get to England and then you're going to figure it out.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and if you're getting from St Martin, I think you just fly to Trinidad and then from Trinidad you hop on over. So how much?
Speaker 2:is that if?
Speaker 1:I'm going from Trinidad to Tobago. I think the majority of people that have never been will probably want to do both right, since the two of them are supposed to go together. So if you are flying into Trinidad and you gotta fly over to, and I want to take the plane over, how long is that?
Speaker 2:The plane ride should be about 15 to take the plane over. How long is that? Uh, the plane ride should be about and maybe 15 to 20 minutes plane right, and it's just because they have to get to altitude right, because it's very much yeah, um, but you said the ferry is like three hours. That's a long time yeah, um, it comes from the, from our port, of speed inside and has to go around, okay, I see yeah, but we have.
Speaker 2:We have about three or four fairies here, well laid out, proper cafeterias, big TV screens, comfortable chairs, you will take your car that's why. That's why we take the ferry cuz of course okay, yeah, my car okay, so you can.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly okay, but I need yeah sorry go ahead on a friday when I used to finish work, I used um roll my car onto the boat so drive straight off like from san fernando into port of skin and then roll my car onto the boat and then pop up by the barn, see my partner's like hey, we've seen fellas. Like we like where you not come from, I like not come from san fernando. It had real traffic on you like, bro, you realize I'm used to that, that's what I'm used to, that's what I'm used to.
Speaker 1:I love that, I absolutely love that. But I also I'm a very visual person. So when you say like I roll my car onto the ferry, it's just so easy.
Speaker 2:Not physically. You just drive on, you just got to roll.
Speaker 1:You just drive on. How much would it set you back for the ferry?
Speaker 2:For the ferry. Right now it's at $75 TT, which works out to be about I got to take my calculator.
Speaker 1:I can't find my calculator.
Speaker 2:That's about 10 or 11 us dollars. One way stop um that's it. Yeah, yeah, she's some bread and if you're a senior citizen of national trent tobago, you don't pay um if you're flying. It is 400 tt one way and that no 400 tt both ways. So no, one way. I can't remember, I think. I think it's both way. I think about $200 one way and $200 the other way TT which works out to be more money, like literally about 15, 15, 20, 30.
Speaker 1:I'm asking about the ferries, like I'm going straight to the plane, because ferries kind of like make me nauseous. So when you said three, hours.
Speaker 2:I'm like, yeah, I don't think.
Speaker 1:I'm going to take the plane.
Speaker 2:The ferry is nice, if it is. You want to see what Trinidad's coastline looks like? That is, it's truly of you, because we have some really high peaks and mountains from the ocean. So just to be able to look back at the island and see that outline, it's really, really beautiful. But, um, it could be a bit of a toss. So picture that you know, sometimes that trip between sin matan and angola, how that water tends to it have moments like that, and then it have moments you just don't feel anything at all, yeah, I'm gonna take the plane like I can just muster, doing anguilla, you know, because anguilla is like what?
Speaker 1:30 minutes runs the margin.
Speaker 2:I can do that, but I, you know that, up and down for three hours, yeah, no, no, no, no no, no, sorry, no, we're not gonna do that so you said it's like okay, it's the um, because you said it's it's doable to do it all in like one um.
Speaker 1:One day. You said you can see the whole island in just one day, but it's gonna be a long day, it's gonna where is. I'm just trying to like kind of like visualize how it looks once I get there.
Speaker 2:So if the is the airport far from that beach bar you're talking about, no, no, no, the airport is in Crong Point, which is on our southwestern part of the island. So just exactly the same angle of which Angola is shaped.
Speaker 1:So you know, it's like this. Yeah, like an eel.
Speaker 2:Correct. So it's shaped the same angle, everything like that same way, and our airport is on the southwestern side of it, in the Crown Point area, and the beach bar is about a 15-minute drive.
Speaker 1:So you're practically, you're kind of like what Angola's cousin or doppelganger.
Speaker 2:I don't know. And you know, at a point in time we had one of our taglines was be extraordinary, and Angola's own was the same thing, and that was a big, a big thing it was. I was like. I was like I don't know somebody, somebody lying somewhere.
Speaker 1:Wow, I was like that's above my peak.
Speaker 2:I'm not even going to get in that one you ain't getting in that business.
Speaker 1:I'm just sipping my tea, I don't know nothing, so let's talk a little bit about, um, uh, the food, which of course you know is you guys are so so known for, and your accent. I think what everybody knows about Trinidad is Trinidad and Tobago, in this case, carnival food, and the accent, and my husband has a very, very strong St Martin accent, but even when we go to Anguilla, people think he's from Trinidad.
Speaker 1:I guess because everybody with a with a strong caribbean accent, it's either a trinidadian or a jamaican and I'm like no people we have so many accents in the green. It's like so many uh, you know, like you know, but where are you going from st martin accent to trinidad? That's a no.
Speaker 1:But okay and I have to say, since we're talking about accent, I love, love, love, love to hear a Trini talk, because you all say real and you say 20, and you say pictures, pictures and I love the flaunted, so I remember we were hanging out by um, we were hanging out on Shoal Bay.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's this, not Gwen's. There's another one as soon as you come down the hill right there on the left hand side uh Modiraman yes, yes, yes, yeah. And I was like, hey, where's this scene by? I said you could put a little mash all day for me and everything. One time we started to get drinks going, we started to meet people and before you know we had a little conga line going I am so hanging with you.
Speaker 1:Wherever you are going next, let me know I'll fly in and meet you, because you're, you're my kind of vibe.
Speaker 2:We like to train the audience specifically. We are very social beings. We follow the faces really easily. We are the life of the party, Everywhere we go. We are almost like celebrities just because we are trained audience. I know people are like oh, you just say that. No, no, I know the Jamaicans, probably they're listening. I'm like no, no, no, no, they love us. I know, we was in Jamaica.
Speaker 1:We make mass man, oh my gosh, we need to get like a group of of you know, trainees and Jamaicans. Oh my gosh, we need to get a group of trainees and Jamaicans and. Samaritans. Oh my gosh, I don't think any of us will survive that day.
Speaker 2:We throw in a little bit of Samaritans.
Speaker 1:We throw in a little bit of Lord have mercy, I guess, on Haitians.
Speaker 2:we hung out at Mount Beach we hung out at. Mount Beach Listen.
Speaker 1:Haitians can party, you know oh boy and they start bringing out that what's it called, that button core, whatever that rum is, and as soon as that bottle comes out, you know it's going to be like one of those days.
Speaker 2:I just love how we as a people, when we are in our space together, how we love each other, how we take care of each other. I mean, yes, we have our banter. Yes, we have our differences yeah, but it's all good when you're in a space or somebody knows that you're coming from a different place, the way we welcome each other, I really really do appreciate that. Anywhere in the Caribbean I go, you know, really love that yeah.
Speaker 1:So let's go back to the food, because I really really do appreciate that Anywhere in the Caribbean I go, you know really love that, yeah. So let's go back to the food, because you know it's like everybody's favorite F word. We got to talk about that and is there anything that's like something that you, that Tobago people, do better than Trini's when it comes to food? Because I can imagine the food is pretty much similar. I don't want to use the word the same because there might be some differences, but so what are some of the classic Tobago dishes?
Speaker 2:So you have a crab and dumplings man. You taste a crab and dumpling here, lord Jesus. So we have this dish, we call it crab and dumplings man. You taste a crab and dumpling here, lord Jesus. So we have this dish, we call it crab and dumpling, just in case, yes, it's crab, all right, we have all different types of crab and we have dumplings and you can get a different type of dumpling. You can get cornmeal dumpling, you can get sour dumpling, coconut dumpling, and they do it in this really nice curried sauce where you get all the meats melting into the pot and really creating that, that flavor. So crab and dumpling is a big signature specifically to tobago. Wow. So that is. That is one of the. If you come into tobago you must have a crab and dumpling that is so similar to ours.
Speaker 1:it's like I think ours is crab and rice and we have also conch and dumpling. Conch and dumpling is another one of those. Yeah, I'll try conch and dumpling. That sounds good All right. So what is a traditional Tobago breakfast? What does that look like?
Speaker 2:A traditional Tobago breakfast Hot chocolate, so Tobago chocolate. So Toronto, tobago has been blessed with probably one of the best cocoa um flavors, and for flavor profiles it's called trinitario um, even if you can already see that in a different region of the world it just would not reproduce, at least to the quality of which chocolate is one of our main staples. So hot chocolate um saltfish or um saltfish with bake, what we call bake.
Speaker 1:Is that what we call Johnny Cake?
Speaker 2:Like a Johnny Cake, yeah, and then that's the fried version, and then we have the baked one, where you put it in the oven itself as well. I actually am at one of my clients' place right now at her restaurant. At the moment I'm in the office, your office. She's a celebrity chef, right. She actually has something called Breakfast Before Bed in Tobago here and it's the opportunity for persons to have that Breakfast Before.
Speaker 1:Bed.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you get a traditional Tobago breakfast at seven o'clock or six o'clock in the evening, what, yeah, and it's a thing you can come in your in your cozy pajamas, and we have it set up in a really nice space and she serves you. It's really nice, real, real classic kind of kind of treatment, really nicely though, nice space, everything like that, and you have your, from your avocados to your plantains, to your saltfish, your bakes, and she really whips it up really nice and you know. So, that way you don't have to wait any morning because you know some places breakfast cuts off yeah, exactly, breakfast stopped serving at 10, which is not nonsense.
Speaker 2:We gotta stop that nonsense.
Speaker 1:We gotta normalize breakfast all day exactly. I remember when I first, when I first met my husband, my husband dragged me out of bed at six o'clock in the morning so we could get there in time before all of the bakes the johnny cake and and saltfish would be finished. So it's it's very nice to actually hear that the tobago breakfast is so similar to the samaritan breakfast. It's pretty much the same with us but instead of the the cocoa, we have bush, tea.
Speaker 2:So yeah, you can get out tonight. I'm not sure we have some chandelier back there somewhere we can pull off.
Speaker 1:What? Oh my goodness, I was like I'm so excited. I kind of like feel like I'm in Tobago right now. Just the way you're telling the story and you're telling me about this chef that is at the restaurant where you're at right now and I got a thing, like just yesterday I started watching one of the episodes of um below deck, because you know, saint martin is is one of the one of the main uh caribbean ports for the mega yachts and we're talking about these multi-million dollar yachts that come in every season right and I used to work in that industry.
Speaker 1:So I like to kind of watch the show. I can recognize some of the people, some of the captains. And then this time is like the first time that I've ever seen a Caribbean person as being part of the crew, and guess where she's from.
Speaker 2:Trinidad.
Speaker 1:She's from Trinidad actually. Yeah, yeah, she's a trinidadian chef, and then? So that's what she has. She's the chef on board of one of these mega yachts, and I'm like you see that you see that I get, I get so proud yeah, every pocket you really are. You really are in the arctic Right now.
Speaker 2:there's a caravan in the Arctic right now. I think they just completed yeah, it's in the Arctic. They completed one of those survival races through the Arctic.
Speaker 1:Oh jeez, you all are everywhere and everywhere you go, you guys have restaurants that are Trini. I can find Trini restaurants in Belgium. Whenever I go in Holland, I can find you in most other Caribbean. Whenever I go in Holland, I can find you in most other Caribbean islands. You guys are really everywhere we've been around yes, you are. I think you are like the OG of explorers, you know and that is so interesting because we were chatting.
Speaker 2:I was chatting with some foreigners yesterday and they too, they say people around here seem to know a lot about other places they're well traveled we're very well traveled people, so even the average beach bum probably has been to Germany at least 5 times a year, and that's the thing for us.
Speaker 1:It sounds so foreign when somebody from the US tells us, oh, they just got their passport. I said, partner, what you?
Speaker 2:just got your password.
Speaker 1:It was like I had my passport when I was, when I just when we say here, I was like just born, just born and I had my passwords. It's like you cannot when you live on an island.
Speaker 1:You have nowhere else to go but get on a plane and explore other places yeah, exactly, so it's just so foreign to us but yeah, yeah, exactly, and that's what a lot of people when they're coming in for the first time into the caribbean region that is. One thing that surprised them is that we are so well traveled, so of course we are, we are, we are very, very and we're blessed with that too, yeah we have to.
Speaker 2:We have to do it for survival as well so ape.
Speaker 1:My last question to you and I like to ask this to all my guests, and this is going to be a juicy one we were just talking about how you know, um, uh, vacationers when they come down. Uh, this is why I started paradise perspectives is I want to give people a more of a knowledge about how the Caribbean people really are the culture, the islands, the differences and the similarities but I also want them to know that just because it's your vacation place, it doesn't mean that it's not a functioning society. So I always want to ask my guests what do you think is one of those things that you would like to tell somebody who is coming to tobago for the first time? What would you tell them is a big don't uh, a big don't.
Speaker 2:Don't, don't assume, don't, don't assume, don't make an ass of you and me. Yeah, don't assume Because, like we mentioned before, some of the most unsuspecting people are multimillionaires, if not billionaires, not right there next to you. Yeah, be respectful of the space, your guests here. We will take care of you to the best of our ability, um, but we expect you to be good guests, good visitors. Yeah, I always say this when I'm doing my training. Um, the most important part of customer service is, firstly, being a good customer. So, be respectful, be polite. Politeness is a big thing, especially in the Caribbean. Good morning, good afternoon. Passing someone straight is a whole disrespect.
Speaker 1:You just walk into a space and then see them Preach, hey, preach.
Speaker 2:That is like really.
Speaker 1:Oh, my goodness, it's like you know. There is one Caribbean content creator I can't remember her name right now and I saw she's from St Thomas and she posted a video and she turned off the comments because she knew people were going to lace up on her Right.
Speaker 1:So lace up, meaning I was like people were really going to come at her with negativity, so she did it. She turned off the comments for that because it was going to be. She kept it real. And one of those things that she said is, if you go to the Caribbean and you are treated badly, you need to start looking at how you treated people first.
Speaker 1:Look within, look within, look within because you know, and it's something as simple as you, daring walking into a restaurant and not saying good morning and just go straight with can I have this and this? That is a simple thing. But people are already like, yeah, you got no manners.
Speaker 2:You're rude, so put back on your manners, gab. Don't come without your manners, so you're checking your manners as well. When you do, in fact, come to the Caribbean, especially in Tibet, like I mentioned, it's one of those places that you fall into the island as if you've been living here all your life. So, just as much as it can be a good thing, you can also rub persons the wrong way with being ill-mannered and they will treat you like you've been living here all your life and you've had bad manners.
Speaker 1:Bad manners people gonna get real upset come across.
Speaker 2:We, we are very welcoming, we are very open, um, we are very excited to show your country. Most places that you meet within trenton, tobago their actual ambassador. They they want to post about. You know we have the largest deposit in trinidad um in the world. You understand, we got this, we got. You want ferrari? We have portions outside. You want a Ferrari? We have a Ferrari. We have Porsches outside. We have the most beautiful features. We're all ambassadors for our place, I mean, but I recognize. You know most persons. Once you're in the Caribbean and persons are coming into your country, you become an automatic ambassador. Yes, you do so. We will take care of you when you get there Fantastic.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much for that. It's like you said it so well. Um, you really really said it well. Uh, I I feel already like the way you talk. I'm already like, okay, let's get off this call already, because I want to start googling how I can get there fast enough.
Speaker 2:You know it's like I need to go straight now to Expedia and Caribbean Airlines and find my way there because my goodness, it's Wednesdays and Saturdays Probably if you're coming back, it'll be in the evening. If I'm leaving, I'll have to leave in the morning. I have to leave at 7 to get to you by about 9.
Speaker 1:That's not fair, though. Who wants to leave Paradise at 7? That's not fair. We need to talk to these regional airlines.
Speaker 2:It seven.
Speaker 1:That's not fair, I mean we need to talk to these regional airlines. It's like you know, fix it up, that's it doesn't work for us.
Speaker 2:Yes, another don't, don't ever leave to be on a sunday. That is my holy rule. Oh yes, I totally agree with you.
Speaker 1:It's like in angola too. It's like in angola, you cannot leave on a sunday. You cannot. That's where all the vibes, all the vibes, oh my gosh.
Speaker 2:The island activates in a particular manner. I don't know it's hard to explain, but there is the entire. It feels like the entire island is out. We have our Sunday school down in Ibuku, we might have an event going on, etc. The island just activates on a Sunday. I much rather be late for work. Well, when I used to work in corporate, sometimes Monday morning I'm on a standby flight hoping to reach the office in time before the Spain. I'm trying to make up a lie that there's traffic on the road somewhere and I'm here in the airport trying to catch a standby flight because I don't want to leave. That is you know. And I'm here in the airport trying to come Because I don't want to leave Sunday mornings. Sundays is really beautiful.
Speaker 1:It's sacred. You have to experience a Sunday in Tobago.
Speaker 2:We're making our list.
Speaker 1:We're making our list, we know now what we can expect. Not a lot, because I'm still going to be surprised, I'm sure, by the time I get there, and so will the listener. But I want to thank you so much, abe. Just one tiny little last question before I let you go, really because I keep saying that, because you and I are in this conversation and I just don't want it to stop, because I'm such a we're vibing, we're totally vibing, we're totally vibing.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1:And um how many times do you visit Tobago really?
Speaker 2:I'm here once a month. Every month, 10 to 12 days at a time Wow, but I do. I do on my route. So, like I have my my schedule, I know I have four days with my celebrity chef here. Yeah, I have four days on with my tour operator, who has a couple different boats out there, so I'm gonna have to be out at sea and then I'm gonna spend a couple more days at another villa doing some content, some work, building out their strategies there. That is how I usually run it up, because I have to go back to trinidad for work I have my other business it helps me balance my life out because um being caught in a rat race in trinidad like I'm.
Speaker 2:Like I said earlier, sometimes in trinidad you forget that you're on an island because it just functions like a big city.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly, it's just. It's just from one meeting to another. You probably don't even see the beach as often as you would like to. It's like. But it's not only trinidad-semaritan too. It's like semaritan. You saw the difference between semaritan and anguilla, and even in anguilla, people in anguilla don't get the chance to go. You know, when you live in paradise you actually live it just.
Speaker 1:You just have a nice backyard, but you're still working, you're still going to your meetings, you're still on the internet, you're still in an ac room, you're still in the air conditioned room all day.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely so um what?
Speaker 1:where can people find you? Where can? Where can the listener find you?
Speaker 2:so you can find me on instagram. So my personal instagram I'm just no, I'm not an influencer, I like to move around.
Speaker 1:Not yet you're not. Actually, you've influenced me. You've influenced me very nicely to go to Tobago.
Speaker 2:So yeah, all right, I know the word has such a cringe with it, doesn't it Influential?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, such a cringey word. Nobody likes using it Influential word. Nobody likes using it Influential. I like that. Yes, yeah, so you can. You can find um my personal handles on Instagram, of course. It's visionary underscore Abe A-B-E. Visionary underscore Abe. Or you could type in Abraham Sutherland. You can find it there. Uh, if you want to know more about my Tobago dedicated platform, it's called I love tobago tt. The tt is really important and that is available on all the platforms instagram, facebook, tiktok, youtube, etc. You do upload videos there for to ganda at and that's really enjoy. So you can find me on those platforms there. And I mean, when you land on my profile, you try to figure out what it is I do. I do everything.
Speaker 1:Yep, I wear many hats and you, abe, you actually wear hats. Yeah, there's every single picture. It's like your signature. Look with the hat on.
Speaker 2:And that was not the intent, that was not the intention at all and I got stuck with it. I can't even wear my ball head the way I want to wear my ball head. You know, no, you can't, I think.
Speaker 1:I think now it's like people recognize you from the hat, so you need to like that's your staple. Look right now. You gotta keep it, hey, thank you you're most welcome.
Speaker 2:You're most welcome. You're most welcome.
Speaker 1:What you said when you're out and about.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so usually because I'm doing Caribbean content, I'm always in the sun and I really got this high suggest because I wanted something to block my face. So you will see me if I'm out shooting, I'll have on cotton linen shirts, long sleeve cotton linen shirts. It looks like a vacation. I mean, that is also part of the persona as well too, because it's it's be remiss of me to be doing caribbean content and in just a regular jersey markup oh, yeah, yeah yeah, I I like to be engrossed and into the, into the situation as well, so I'm very involved.
Speaker 2:I'm very intimately involved with my for my clients, so I'm part of their process because I have to feel the part to be able to portray that as well too. So I try to dress like if I'm on the team all the time.
Speaker 1:I cannot thank you enough for this conversation. Thank you so much. I think by far you have been one of my longest episodes, because I just cannot let you go. Please, fiance, do not get jealous that this man is gold. Thank you so much for agreeing to be on the show today. I am so, so grateful for you. It was such a pleasant talk. I learned so much about tobago. Tobago is now absolutely going on. My top three must do must visit country in the caribbean this year.
Speaker 2:Thank you, and I will see you in san Martin. I'm going to come out and I will do my podcast out there and we're going to. We're going to have some more conversations. A lot of mercy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh, you bet, you bet I'll be like, I'll be there with bells and whistles. I will take care of you, don't worry All right.
Speaker 2:So thanks so much for having me guys.
Speaker 1:Hey, you stop searching for flights for a second. I know that's exactly what you're doing, especially now that you heard ape talk so passionately about tobago, and I truly hope that you enjoyed this episode as much as I enjoyed conversing with ape sutherland about something that he obviously loves so deeply. Now, if you want to stay updated on everything Tobago, head on to the show notes as soon as this episode is done, because, as usual, I have left a link there to Abe's personal Instagram, as well as to the I Love Tobago TT Instagram feed that he manages okay, and I want to thank you, as always, from the bottom of my heart for lending me an ear, and I know that you took the time to spend this hour with me and my guest, abe, and for that we are eternally grateful. I hope you tune in again next week when we visit yet another Caribbean island, and remember that if you want me to feature one of your favorite Caribbean islands, all you need to do is ask. Send an email to hello at thetravelingislandgirlcom, which is, of course, linked in the show notes. I would be more than happy to find someone to interview in your favorite paradise.
Speaker 1:Now for the ladies, remember that if you are looking for a trip of a lifetime, one in which you get to relax and immerse yourself in island culture as well as into your own well-being. Well, that's when I'm getting in with one of the most epic adventures that you can sign up for. I am hosting the Island Awakening Luxury Retreat from June 4th until the 9th right here in my home island of Saint Martin, and about now I only have about two spots left, so if this seems like something for you, get in touch with me ASAP and also check the show notes for the booking page. I can hardly wait to meet you in paradise. I am Rizal, the traveling, traveling island girl signing off yet another wonderful episode of the paradise perspective podcast. I hope you enjoyed it as much as I did. Ciao for now, and see you on one of our beaches very soon.
