Andy, Cherie and Mandy | Time to RECHARGE! | Lead with Courage

Imagine stepping into the new year with a RECHARGED spirit and a clear mind.

In this special #leadwithcourage episode, Andy, Cherie and Mandy join the podcast today to discuss what strategies and techiniques they use to RECHARGE, as well as announcing a BRAND NEW workshop that Luminate is launching, called RECHARGE.

After chatting to many businesses around team morale and engagement recently, we felt compelled to create a short workshop.
It's a SHORT 3 hour session designed for all staff (no minimum or maximum numbers). 

The intention is to create time and space for your team to stop, take time and reflect, reset their goals and reconnect as a team.

It's created to be an ideal fit for an end of year function, a planning day or a way to kickstart your team in 2024.

To enquire about RECHARGE for your team, or any other workshops for your business, please see the link below:

RECHARGE workshop
All workshops
Contact Luminate to book RECHARGE for your team

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Thanks for joining us on the Lead with Courage podcast, bought to you by Luminate Leadership. We trust this episode has given you some insights and joy to empower you live your biggest, best life.

If you enjoyed it, we'd be grateful if you like, share and subscribe to hear our future conversations.

To find out more about the work we do Luminate Leadership connect with us:
Luminate's Website and LinkedIn and on
Instagram : Luminate_Leadership and Cherie Canning

Until the next episode, we hope you live and Lead with Courage!
Cherie and Andy x
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Luminate Leadership is not a licensed mental health service and is not a substitute for professional mental health advice, treatment or assessment. The advice given in this episode is general in nature, but if you’re struggling, please see a healthcare professional, or call lifeline on 13 11 14.

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Hi, I'm Chloe Canning. Luminate Leadership acknowledges the traditional custodians of the land which we record. This podcast, the Terrible and Yoga Repeat. We pay our respects to Elder's past, present and emerging.

Speaker 2: 0:16

Welcome to Lead with Courage, the podcast that celebrates the bold and inspiring stories of leaders making a difference. We're your hosts, andy and Shuri Canning, and together we'll dive into the minds of the trailblazers, the risk takers and those who embrace life with a growth mindset.

Speaker 3: 0:35

All right, well, welcome back to the Lead with Courage podcast. You've got Andy here today and we also have a Mandy over that side and we have the late night. Shesy, barney, andy, over here as well.

Speaker 2: 0:47

I'm going with Candy to fit in with Andy and Mandy. It's just easy to remember, but maybe I think I sound a bit different. So I'm going with the ultra personality today. What is it called? Oh, there you go. Candy's coming, candy's here.

Speaker 3: 1:02

Candy's here to play very good, and even our dog is fighting around in the back here as well.

Speaker 2: 1:07

Okay, okay, Candy.

Speaker 4: 1:08

Mandy and we're all here. You're surrounded by so many females, andy, hey, I've been all my life.

Speaker 3: 1:14

I grew up with my mum and my two sisters at home, and we had only female dogs and other animals as well, but maybe that's another podcast coming. Anyway, you're here today and you're catching us at the end of October, and what we'd really love to share with everyone is that we've created a new workshop and a new product that we think will really help a lot of businesses out there. While we sort of navigate and sprint towards the end of the year. We'd love for you guys to tell us a little bit about it.

Speaker 2: 1:42

Yeah, I think, as you say, I think the sprint to the end of the year and I'm kind of hearing out there as well as like people are collapsing over the finish line and we're looking at some numbers, because I know you love numbers, so I didn't want to come on to this without a stat for you in particular, I appreciate that.

Speaker 2: 1:59

But there's 16%. You know, when we're recording this, at the end of mental health awareness month, the end of October, there's just over 16% of the year left. So that's still a considerable amount of time to make an impact on your results, your teams, whatever it is that you're chasing down your goal. 16%, it's considerable. So we don't. I think the sentiment is we don't want people falling over the finishing line or just kind of scrambling in like you want people you know home running into that finish line. And I'm kind of feeling like the world is a bit heavy right now. There's a lot been going on in the world politically and with wars and all sorts of horrible stuff, but also just the drain and the energy that it feels like people in business at the moment. So I don't know what are you hearing, men's?

Speaker 4: 2:45

Yeah, you're so right. You're so right and you want to start the new year on a height, like you want to start with momentum, not, oh, we made it through the first half of the year.

Speaker 1: 2:57

You want to.

Speaker 4: 2:58

You really want to hit the ground running in that second half of the year, and so I think what companies or businesses do over the next two months is so important to set themselves up for the second half of the year, or yeah, or the financial year.

Speaker 2: 3:12

Yeah, agreed, and like when we were sitting there thinking well, like, how are we feeling right now, what do we need? Like to come into the end of the year strong, but also to start the next year and, I think, more energetically than anything? And the morale of teams. And there's some fascinating stats. I'm going back in the stats. This is the podcast for you, andy Canning.

Speaker 2: 3:33

But we're looking at like Gallup and a few other different organizations that do a lot of research, and it just keeps coming up that December, january, is when most people resign. It's when people move on from their jobs. They go, they're looking and you hear it all the time. Right, I've had a break over Christmas or whatever, and I've really thought about what's important to me. Or on my holiday, I've had time to reflect and I think I don't know. You know, speaking from our own experience, the last thing you want is people coming back, the right people, great people in your team and then saying I'm going somewhere else. So we want to make sure we're holding on to the right team members when we can too.

Speaker 4: 4:09

Yeah, absolutely. And sometimes at this time of year for those companies some, some people get to take a break and then some companies it's the busiest time a year for them, and so by January their team members are burnt out. And when you're in that burn burn out stage, you just you start to question everything and you think, oh, it's the job, but really all it is is you just need to refuel yourself and you're fine.

Speaker 2: 4:42

Yeah, I think so too. I feel like you're right. Like it's like, are we blaming the external? If we're exhausted, we're not happy, it can be the external, but how often is it actually just retweaking what's internal to then change the external environment?

Speaker 3: 4:57

Yes, yes, I guess, ironically, that's the only thing we can really control as well, right, the internal stories, if you want, and the navigation around that and discovering new tools to do that, and we really believe this workshop that you guys have created will absolutely do that. So can you tell us a little bit about what the recharge workshop is going to do for people out?

Speaker 2: 5:17

there. Yeah, well, exactly, recharge, I think that's it. And when we're looking at, well, what are some intentions around it? I think did we say it's like reflect, so giving people the opportunity to look back on the year that's been and what's worked and what's not for them professionally, personally reset. So then having a time to take time out and reset, reset some goals and then reconnect. So reconnect with yourself, but also with the team, and just carve out that time.

Speaker 2: 5:46

I think one of the things that we hear people say and it's so valid and really hear it is we don't always have an abundance of time to put aside for this. We'd love to have weeks and go on conferences and retreats for days on end, but we don't always have that physically the time or the finances to fit that, either the budget. So that's where we've decided this one is just got to be like a punchy three hour, unlimited people. So, whether it's a team of three and we're going to speak about some of the content and how it's impacted us now personally, a team of three or an organization of 300 to run it as a conference session or a small group session, I think being able to adapt to any environment there, yeah. So what's in it? And I guess we don't want to give away all the what's in it, otherwise what you wouldn't need to do it but what we did think is maybe we could share a few of the concepts in it and the impact that's had on us. So who wants to kick off?

Speaker 4: 6:47

Yeah, I'm happy to share first. So one of the concepts that we have included in this particular workshop is called the emotional bank account, and I definitely push for this one to be in there because of how much of an impact it's had on me personally. I still remember when I first learned this particular concept it was in a training, probably 20 years ago.

Speaker 4: 7:17

But it was in a training and I remember at the time I just worked around the clock. I, every night I'd still be working, every weekend I would work, and they, I learned this concept and it just was this light bulb moment where I went. Oh, that's why I feel burnt out, because I was just having energy taken like withdrawals from from my bank account and I wasn't depositing back into my bank account. And I remember leaving the training thinking, oh, I know how to fix myself, I know how to feel better and not feel burnt out. But the challenge was my workload didn't change. I still had a huge workload. And I remember thinking how am I meant to do more for me when my workload's not changing? And I remember sitting in a in a one on one with my nation leader Dion at the time, and shout out to you, dion, thank you.

Speaker 4: 8:16

And I remember sitting in that that one on one, and him saying oh, what do you? What do you got planned for the weekend? I said, well, I'll be working. What work do you have to do? I said I have so many emails I need to get to, I need to reply to. And he said I'll show me. And so I should definitely show my age here. But I handed him my BlackBerry and he looked at it. He's like, oh, wow, you do have a lot of emails. And then he handed the BlackBerry back to me and I looked at it and my inbox was deleted. He had completely, he had just deleted my whole inbox. And I had this moment of like fear, followed by just this huge moment of relief.

Speaker 4: 9:02

And that weekend was the first weekend in months where I didn't touch my laptop. I think I went out on the jet ski, I hung out at the beach, I spent time with my friends. It was just. It was such a great weekend. And I remember going back to work and I'm like, oh, I feel re-touched, I actually am more productive. And from that moment, on.

Speaker 4: 9:28

I didn't have to work weekends anymore, because the more what I realized is, the more I started to do things for me, the more focused I was, the more productive I was, and it really was quite a pivotal moment for me personally and just being able to manage and balance that workload it was great. And do you know how many people emailed me to say you have a reply yeah, how many. One oh one Was it Dion. Why do you reply?

Speaker 4: 9:58

to this One person but this particular concept. It just helps create real awareness around what we yeah, why we feel the way we do and what we need to do to really be productive while we're at work and be able to like that cliche of work-life balance but, yeah, manage both work and having a life and, while you're at work, feeling good and just avoiding that burnout that so many people experience.

Speaker 3: 10:28

Yeah, so the emotional bank account starts with select or delete.

Speaker 2: 10:32

Exactly To all the managers and business owners out there. This is not what we're saying you need to do. We're not saying to delete all your emails, but it is. It's like what's the strategy for you? I read, I was reading a post and Andy and I were just chatting about this this morning. I post around, you know, do you do sprints and then recharge, or are you a marathon? For when it comes to a year of, like, holidays and breaks, and sometimes I've kind of reflect the thinking I've got it wrong. But now I heard that and I'm like no, I think that that is what works for me, like I'll just do like an intense sprint of work and then I'll have a break, maybe every three months or so. We'll take a break or a long weekend, and then I'll have a good break, a good recharge, a good reset, and then I'll sprint again. And in those sprints I mean maybe you're listening to this going. Oh, it's working for you. Well, sure, listen to your voice.

Speaker 2: 11:23

But, you know, in those sprints I think it's knowing in my mind like I'm giving it all and it doesn't mean I'm working all day, every weekend, but it absolutely is just like here's a period of time, then that's my recharge, and that I think I operate best in those sprints. But that's not an everyone thing. And I love that about the emotional bank account because we go, here's the concept. But how does it work for you with your responsibilities, with your job, with your family, with you know all of your personal circumstances? Yeah, one of my favourites.

Speaker 2: 11:53

Another piece now you've asked us and about the content. So we might need to tell you about what's in some of the content, but one of the pieces of the content is around, you know, mindfulness and getting doing some not so much hardcore meditation exercises but at the same time, getting doing some mindfulness exercises. So in this workshop we won't just be sitting in a room all day, we'll be getting out, we'll be going and doing some real life examples of how to practice mindfulness, including meditation. And I just wanted to kind of throw it over to you saying well, I know that's a big part of your life breath, work, meditation and do you want to maybe just share your journey with that and how it's been beneficial for you.

Speaker 3: 12:39

Yeah, sure thing. So I've kind of found a tricky most of my life to sit still and focus. He shat out to any of the teachers, including workshop trainers anywhere. That's been a real challenge for me and I discovered, I think, just through some anxiety that I was working through and noticing within myself maybe five or six years ago and some particular situations that were happening at work. I noticed that the tools that I had at the time were well, they were kind of non-existent and they just kind of weren't working.

Speaker 3: 13:10

And so one of the things that I really sort of sought out and worked on, which was really simple, guided meditation, and I swear that it it. You know, some days I heard someone say this the other day and hopefully won't miss quotas but some days, even when I do meditation now, it still feels like I'm back on day one and I have no idea what I'm doing, and other days I feel like I'm locked in and I'm a Buddha. So it kind of it's somewhere in the middle there and I think it's a good reminder that it's no difference if you sit out for a run, for example. Some days your body feels better than it does in other days, and it's the same thing with your mind. I kind of liken it to, you know, an old school Windows computer disc defragmenter, if anyone ever sat there watching the block.

Speaker 2: 13:55

We're really showing our age up in the clock.

Speaker 3: 13:57

Reorganize themselves. You know it's a little bit like that, and so I start the day with that, really every day without fail. That's kind of my non-negotiable. And then I also weave into there some intentional breath work, and this is what might sound a little bit woo-woo, but through my own experience as well, this is another way to to quiet my mind where I really believe that powerful breath or powerful thoughts cannot survive powerful breath, and so sometimes that will be doing some kind of really intense.

Speaker 2: 14:25

Can you show us your eco eradicator on video now?

Speaker 3: 14:27

Oh, yeah, I can. It's a little bit embarrassing but it can be something as simple as kind of like standing there, legs to the ground, arms to the air, thumbs pointed out that way, and hold that pose while doing intense breathing Again, not going to sound great on audio and only looks good.

Speaker 3: 14:48

Rarely looks good on video but doing really intense breathing through your nose and you know kind of pushing out that kind of thing. So that would be one example. And then doing that for three to five minutes and then variations of that and then just see if you do that really intensely, see if you can actually think about anything else, like I guarantee it's almost pretty difficult to do that and that helps me. What it does is just quieten down a lot of the activity in the mind.

Speaker 3: 15:14

So in particular, busy periods for myself where I know that I just have maybe a lot of unhelpful stories kind of circulating or whatever they may be, then that helps me kind of lock in and focus so between those two things. And then I also, you know, marinate those things with exercise and with good diet and, you know, good conversation with other humans and connection hanging out with me yeah.

Speaker 2: 15:41

Andy maybe we need to put your facilitation skills to the test to facilitate the mindful mindfulness portion of this workshop yeah, I know, I was thinking that because I was thinking if anyone's nervous about having to do that, we won't actually be doing that exercise in session, unless you requested maybe illustrate what works for me and give some people some ideas out there, just in case your current set of tools and the toolkit that you've been using for a while feels a little blunt and maybe you need a sharper instrument in there then you could potentially try one of those and, and equally for myself, I've recognized from time to time those tools feel a little blunt and then I'll need a variation of it or I'll need something in there that kind of stretches me a little bit more physically.

Speaker 3: 16:23

If something gets a little bit too comfortable, such as guided meditation for me gets a little bit too comfortable sometimes, where I don't lock in as much. So I break it up with like five minutes of silence and then see if I can just watch the thoughts or watch the breath and have that single mono focus. And another thing I just I guess I just want to touch on as well is a lot of people will, I think, have a misconception around meditation or even mindfulness practices. There are different mindfulness practices out there and there is something out there for everyone.

Speaker 3: 16:55

The real difference I see in terms of what determines a mindfulness practice or a meditative state, if you will, is just a single focus, monotasking, if you will. So if you're thinking about like my mindfulness state, for example, might be to go for a run, and when I go for a run then I really lock on, I would argue that that is one version of it, but it's not quite monotasking, because there's still there's running, there's still kind of navigating, and then largely your thoughts just kind of circulate in and out. You might be listening to a song, and and it's just kind of giving it free reign, which is okay. 47% of our day is spent lost in thought. That's a fact.

Speaker 4: 17:35

Another stat, and so what?

Speaker 3: 17:39

that you know, kind of what that. What that teaches us is those things are really good. I love to go and play golf and I love the idea of kind of like thinking about what shot I'm gonna hit, standing behind the ball, having rehearsing the swings in my head a couple of times, going up and hitting the ball and while. That, for me, takes me to a bit of a meditative state. If you will, in no way is it meditation. Meditation is just that kind of locking down into the earth, feed on the ground, sort of just feeling the hearing, the sounds around you, feeling those things, and then trying to focus on one thing.

Speaker 2: 18:13

That's really what that?

Speaker 3: 18:15

is so.

Speaker 2: 18:15

I just want to clarify that yeah, no, I think it's so important and that's where we'll talk about mindfulness and mindful experiences and meditation is as two different things on the day and really, you know, for those of the people listening going, oh that's a practice of mine anyway, it's a non-negotiable, and there's lots of people out there that that would relate to, I think, in this program. It's then just another opportunity to experience it and, at the same time, for some people, it's not part of their life, it's not part of their experience, it's a little bit of a tester. How do you want to try it on and experience a few different techniques? Because, as you said, it's like there is one for everyone. I remember running a similar session called mindful leadership a few years ago and it was a full day and we had like nine different mindfulness techniques that we experienced through the day, and I love that so much because people came away going, oh I like number one, or I like number seven, oh I love number three, I'll I'll never go through a day without doing that again.

Speaker 2: 19:14

So, yeah, it was really powerful, I think, for people to pick and stick with what they want, which will be a little bit of that experience in this too. Awesome, and I do think we're talking about it. I think it's an important message as well is that this is also something we can offer in one-on-one coaching too. So it is absolutely we're speaking to this program we've just designed, but it's most certainly as someone's listening going. Actually, I want to delve a bit deeper. For me personally, that's something that we're doing with our clients already with that one-on-one coaching.

Speaker 3: 19:45

So we'll just hand it out. It's a real combination and we all do it. We've all got kind of different clients that we work with, but it is really sort of a bit of a balance there, where we're a leadership company that helps people develop their skills in terms of leadership and life, and so then the coaching that we do kind of carries over and cascades over a couple of different versions of that, where you may kind of go into conversations around leadership and then linking it back to life or looking at specific examples in life and then, through our own experiences, then providing tools that might help or just hearing people out is one of the things that we just increasingly do more and more of as well.

Speaker 2: 20:24

Yeah, because if you go back to Mandy's example and Dion, that's the prime example where you're sitting there talking about work and your workflow and your workload and as leaders, we want to be probably talking about the efficiencies on how do you do this and your productivity. But if you're not balanced and it's not saying it needs to be this everyone's balance looks different. But if you're not in balance, then you're not going to be productive. So, yeah, it's helping people uncover that, I think.

Speaker 4: 20:52

Exactly the better you are in life, the better you're going to be as a leader at the end of the day. And vice versa, the better you are at work Like if you're burnout at work, you're not going to not be burnout at home. Burnout is across the board.

Speaker 2: 21:07

Yeah, do you know? Here's an interesting fact. I'm bringing the facts and stats home today. I don't know what's happened to me, can we?

Speaker 2: 21:15

pause the video, so I can just google some stats please 100% of the days you spend at Luminate you love. There you go, oh perfect. That's not brainwashing at all. In 2019, the World Health Organization actually defined burnout as a medical state, and so it's only a fresh thing now that it's a technical medical condition of burnout, which is fascinating, Like maybe we can put a link in this show notes or people can Google it. But it's fascinating when you see, like the spiral where it does start from the heavy workload and then it goes to you kind of go almost into procrastination and you freeze and you can't really get things done and then the stress just builds and builds. Coco's joined us. Coco, what have you got to say? Sleep.

Speaker 4: 22:02

Sleep is important. She is not burnout, she is a happy girl.

Speaker 3: 22:06

She had a day of doggy daycare yesterday, so we're getting a little bit more peace and quiet from her today compared to normal.

Speaker 2: 22:15

And maybe one last piece, I think, from the course, and not that it's the only these three topics, but one of them is around gratitude, and that was the one that I probably feel really passionate and excited about, and for us, I've shared this on the podcast before. I don't know if I have around the gratitude practice. Do you remember? Have I talked about this?

Speaker 3: 22:37

Maybe people don't remember let's assume no, let's assume no, let's assume no In episode one play the whistle.

Speaker 2: 22:45

I might have referenced this, actually, but for me, I think the practice of gratitude is one that is just transformational in life and it allows us to still be in the present moment of any challenges, of any grief, of any heaviness, of burnout, whatever emotional state that we're in, and at the same time, we can always then redirect our thoughts and our energy to gratitude and the beauty with gratitude. I think there's so much research around. It improves sleep, it decreases depression, it decreases anxiety. If you see a psychologist part of cognitive behavioral therapy and the different strategies are gonna give you, very often gratitude is linked to that. One of my all-time favorite books is the Happiest man on Earth by Eddie Jakku, and Eddie, have you read that? Have you read that?

Speaker 1: 23:40

Not yet. No, I haven't have you read that Sorry, I read Man's Search for Meaning.

Speaker 2: 23:44

Yeah, but just right before Maybe similar stories. Oh look, it's similar and also really different. So both Auschwitz survivors.

Speaker 3: 23:52

Let me correct similar background.

Speaker 2: 23:54

Both Auschwitz survivors and Eddie Jakku.

Speaker 2: 23:57

He actually only recently died, a couple of years ago, at an age of 100 or 101.

Speaker 2: 24:02

And he wrote this book, I think, when he turned 100, and just talking about perspective in life and a huge thing was around gratitude and clearly, for someone to live through the atrocities of the Holocaust and come out the other side and still be walking around saying I'm really happy and I can see the beauty in life, I think that is just power and so it's a phenomenal book, highly recommended.

Speaker 2: 24:23

So I know that when we had Chloe and she was in the hospital, that writing of gratitude was such a powerful way at the end of every day of NICU, to be writing in that journal what are we grateful for today, no matter what had happened in the day, and some days were easier and harder than others. And also I think you and I in 2017, the year that Chloe came out of hospital that was a rough year for us and kind of reengaging through our relationship and refuelling that, and we used to send each other a gratitude text every day saying what am I grateful for? The little prayer hands and then the little heart what do I love about you? We used to send it every day and let me tell you some days that was hard.

Speaker 3: 25:05

Still too hard now.

Speaker 2: 25:06

Hey, no, but it was a really good challenge and it's interesting how many people, when I've shared that, I've heard so many people oh, I started doing that as well, and how I think we then moved to doing it weekly. But just how nice it enriching to your personal relationship. It is just to be sharing that, because we have so many other things that we're focused on and thinking about and even now we do a gratitude practice at night, whether we call it, you know, high, low, buffalo, or what are you grateful for, or ready set go we give it every other name under the sun actually. But fundamentally, what is it? What happened in your day that was great today that you want to talk about and there's so much power in that. So we'll do a little bit of gratitude and talk about some of the background and the impacts on the science and the neuroplasticity and how it rewires our brain, and also just a bit of time to sit and reflect and give people the space and the time to do so.

Speaker 3: 26:02

Yeah, exactly, hang on. So maybe just for everyone out there who's still listening after however many minutes we've been going for. We just summarised like in a couple of dot points the recharge workshop. It's available right now. We come out to your business. We've met in an offsite location as many people in there as possible. You know that's suitable for your business and are there any other logistics that I've missed?

Speaker 4: 26:29

I think it's such a great workshop to add on to like a whole planning day. So, if you have a planning day or a reset or a okay, let's revisit our goals day. This is such a great workshop to do in the morning first get everyone in a really great mindset to then start talking about the new year.

Speaker 2: 26:51

Yeah, I fully agree. And so, whether that's a Christmas party in the afternoon and you're gonna get a bit boozy in the afternoon, get everyone in and have this connection. And you know, from an employer perspective, this is really something giving back to your team. It's really it is that refuel, it's that recharge and you know this could be the timing could be perfect, going into the end of year for people, so it's the end of year celebration. It also could be something that you go I wanna hit the ground running in January so then we can come back and that could be, you know, part of your plans, your strat planning or your vision planning, goals planning day. If you're doing that kind of thing in your business, you can add that before or after.

Speaker 3: 27:32

And this just is on to be three hours, isn't it? Yeah, it's short and sharp.

Speaker 2: 27:35

Well, that's short and sharp to us but, yeah, it is short and sharp enough that people are gonna get the impact, but not so much that it's taking up a whole day and it really is just that recharge and that reset for people. Yeah, awesome.

Speaker 3: 27:48

Perfect, all right, well, fantastic.

Speaker 4: 27:51

Thank you both for joining the Leave, the Courage podcast today. Andy, Mandy and Candy. That's it.

Speaker 3: 27:58

And we'll be back with another edition soon. In the meantime, I was gonna say something from Jerry Springer, like take care of yourselves and each other, but that seems a little cliche, no, but.

Speaker 2: 28:10

You do arrive for me. Menace, Stay high to your mum for me.

Speaker 3: 28:12

Oh yeah, we could do that, no, no.

Speaker 2: 28:14

That doesn't feel right either. What else Maybe?

Speaker 2: 28:17

we just say to you after the night Bye, yeah, thanks for tuning in. Keep leading with courage, bye. Thanks for joining us on the Lead with Courage podcast. We illuminate leadership and it's our mission to inspire and grow the leaders of today to create a better tomorrow. We hope and trust that this episode has given you some insights and joy to empower you to live your biggest, best life. If you did enjoy the episode, we'd be so grateful for you to rate and share wherever you listen to this podcast. And until next time, go and lead with courage. Illuminate leadership is not a licence mental health service or a substitute for professional mental health advice, treatment or assessment. Any conversation in this podcast is general in nature and if you're struggling, please see a healthcare professional or call Lifeline on 13-11-14.