Brent Tate | Just Give Feedback | Lead with Courage

Brent Tate, known for his indomitable spirit and distinguished rugby league career, has earned admiration for his unwavering commitment to excellence on and off the field. 

Throughout our conversation, Brent shared invaluable life lessons drawn from his experiences in professional sports. With candidness, he discussed the importance of humility, self-awareness, and the transferable skills between sports leadership and corporate management. Stories of his time with renowned coach Wayne Bennett and his tenure with the Broncos, the Warriors, and the Cowboys highlight the adaptability and openness required to thrive in any team environment.

Transitioning from sports to the corporate world, Brent approached this phase with the same determination he displayed on the field. He spoke of seeking new passions post-career, the significance of a solid support network, and the joys and responsibilities of fatherhood. Our discussion also touched on the contrasting feedback dynamics between sports and corporate environments, advocating for a culture of continuous feedback.

After listening to this episode you will gain insights and strategies for navigating difficult transitions, regardless of the arena.

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Thanks for joining us on the Lead with Courage podcast, bought to you by Luminate Leadership. We trust this episode has given you some insights and joy to empower you live your biggest, best life.

If you enjoyed it, we'd be grateful if you like, share and subscribe to hear our future conversations.

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Until the next episode, we hope you live and Lead with Courage!
Cherie and Andy x
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Luminate Leadership is not a licensed mental health service and is not a substitute for professional mental health advice, treatment or assessment. The advice given in this episode is general in nature, but if you’re struggling, please see a healthcare professional, or call lifeline on 13 11 14.

Transcript

Andy: 0:00

We have a wonderful guest today, brent Tate. Welcome to the Lead with Courage podcast.

Brent: 0:04

Thank you for having me. It's been a long time coming, so good to be here.

Andy: 0:07

Oh, we're very grateful, did you?

Cherie: 0:08

intentionally throw in the Taylor Swift lyric there. It's been a long time coming.

Brent: 0:12

Oh really, no, I didn't but it is forefront of mind at the moment.

Cherie: 0:15

Yeah, isn't, it Isn't it, it is.

Andy: 0:17

It insert pop culture here. We also have another special guest today. We've got Mandy with us as well, yeah, welcome back, man.

Mandy: 0:22

Thank you. I feel very privileged to be here in this room, so thank you for inviting me.

Andy: 0:28

Oh, it's great. Well, we've got four of us and we've got about that amount of cameras as well.

Cherie: 0:32

Kind of floating around, so Exciting it's so good to have you here and thank you. We've been excited knowing the potential to speak to you, and so thank you for your time and thanks for being part of the podcast today.

Brent: 0:43

Nah, it's all good, looking forward to it.

Cherie: 0:45

Welcome, andy. You want to kick us off with the question? I'm just throwing you all the yeah, sure, what question? Nah, I'm just kidding Brent.

Andy: 0:54

what does Lead with Courage mean to you?

Brent: 0:57

Lead with Courage, I will say I've had a lot of great leaders over my time and I think the thing that always stands out and when you say lead with courage is, I guess, having the fortitude to stand up in what they believe. All the good leaders that I've had, or all the good coaches, or even in the corporate world, lead with courage for me is just having the fortitude to stand up and know what the right thing is to do and having the courage to be able to live and breathe those values that they know are the right thing to do. I guess I hope that sums it up a little bit.

Cherie: 1:33

Yeah, so good. I'm so excited to have this conversation with you today. I think we want to go into some of your on-field experiences and leadership and resilience and also in retirement, and get into a little bit of that background. But, mandy, we are really excited to have her here because you and Mandy have known each other for a long time. So I'm going to throw it over to Mandy to maybe kick us off with some questions and get us started.

Mandy: 2:01

Thank you, thank you. So, brent, a lot of people listening to this podcast today might only know you from what they see of you on the football field, but I am very lucky enough to know a little bit more about you than what others see on the football field, and I've had many stories of you growing up, some of which are probably inappropriate to share right now.

Mandy: 2:24

But I think that there is the guy on the football field and then there's Brent, the guy who grew up in a house full of women, and would you like to just share a little bit about your upbringing with us and how your upbringing has shaped you?

Brent: 2:38

Yep, I definitely can. So I was born in a country town called Roma. I lived in Roma so I was about six. I did a couple of years living in Tumba, then pretty much did most of my childhood, then grown up in Redcliffe. I was raised by all women my mum, my two sisters, my grandmother and my auntie. That's the reason we moved from Roma. Mum and dad split up so we got on the road pretty much. It's funny, I was a shocking kid. As a little toddler I actually got expelled from Kindi.

Cherie: 3:10

I have never heard of that before. No, it's true story I remember.

Brent: 3:15

I vaguely remember it. Teacher told mum never to bring me back. And growing up in Tumba at that period of my life I think with, I guess, the split with mum and dad or whatever I was just a shocking kid my grandmother told mum the only place I was going to end up was in Bogaro Jail. So I didn't have any support of the family. I did. I'll never, ever forget the day mum said she was going to sign me up to play rugby league. We're in Tumba. It is the most vivid childhood memory I've got. I'll never forget it. We were in Tumba in our house in Wreath Muller Street. Mum was sitting down on the couch and I happened to just be standing in the lounge room and mum was watching a Bulldogs West game on TV and she stood up and she looked at me and she said I'm going to sign you up to play rugby league. And I remember looking at the TV, seeing the Bulldogs West game and I can honestly say, from that split second onwards, that's all I ever wanted to do was play rugby league.

Brent: 4:14

Behaviour didn't improve through primary school. It wasn't until a grade one teacher grabbed mum and said you need to threaten to take something away from this boy that he loves. The thing mum threatened was rugby league. Behaviour changed in an instant, so got a lot to thank rugby league for. But also got a lot to thank from mum, my sisters and my aunts, who all raised me and it's funny, I ended up in rugby league in a completely women dominated household. But we're a big footy family tragic footy family and yeah, I guess that's how I ended up playing rugby league and then pretty much grew up in Redcliffe and sort of my journey started there. So yeah, that's amazing.

Cherie: 4:57

A lot to thank rugby league for. I think that's incredible. Do you remember who was playing back in those in that time? Terry Lamb would have been around. Yeah, he probably was.

Brent: 5:07

It's funny though it is just a really vivid memory, like I just I remember mum standing up and she pointed at me and I remember looking at the TV and I honestly think, from that single moment onwards, like rugby league was it? And really fortunate enough I got to live it out. But if that was it, like it was rugby league or broke for me, or sort of all in Wow.

Cherie: 5:29

Mandy mentioned something that now this is going to be fast forwarding from a little kid Maybe we can come back to that but from a little kid to rugby league and obviously it's your career and what everyone knows you for. About Wayne Bennett's words about your can you go? Can you finish my?

Mandy: 5:45

sentence because I don't know you well enough.

Cherie: 5:46

It feels like I'm insulting you.

Mandy: 5:48

And I feel like this is a story my husband's- shared, so let's just see if this could be anything. Let's just do a fact check right now on this, but I think this is something that was in your book where Wayne spoke about you weren't the most naturally talented player, but you were the hardest working player. So can you talk us through those early years starting? Rugby league with some pretty big names.

Brent: 6:16

Yeah, I guess. So I saw my very first NRL contract at the age of 15 to go to the Broncos. So I finished school, went to Brisbane to play at the Broncos and I really struggled. Actually it was a really tough year personally. When I left school, started to work so I had to do a traineeship at the Broncos Leagues Club and I was sort of training, I guess semi-professionally, because I sort of hadn't made the full time squad my first year at Brisbane. I struggled footy wise almost to the point where they were going to send me back to Redcliffe because I just wasn't showing any talent. I just was struggling because I and I remember struggling the whole part of my struggle was I couldn't get my head around going to work every day and I remember coming home saying to mum like is this all you're doing? Mum, like I don't want this. Like do I just go to work and do it all again the next day?

Brent: 7:13

mum's like mate, that's life, like you need to get your head around it because that's that's what most people do every day and I I really struggled with it and I don't know it's whether I wanted something more and it's no disrespect because I work every day now but I just really, really struggled with that. So my footy was struggling and I was going to go back to Redcliffe and this is the first time I ever met Wayne Bennett. Wayne had it organised to have a meeting with me and I thought it was going to be I'm going to talk all about footy, we're going to sit down, he's going to tell me what I'm doing wrong and it's going to fix everything I'm going to do. I remember sitting down with Wayne and not once did we ever talk about footy. Within about an hour's conversation, all's Wayne talked to me about was what was going on with my life away from footy. He started talking to me about things like words I'd never really heard like. He was talking to me about discipline.

Brent: 8:07

Did I have any structure around home? Did I have any routine? And I'm sitting there going. He's like, and I look back now and I go look, it's so simple. But when he was asking me I'm sitting there going like he said to me what time do you go to bed each night and I'm like, oh mate, I'll start play Xbox. I don't have a time. He goes. What time do you get up in the morning? I'm like, well, just when I ever get up some mornings I'll sleep in. You have breakfast, something I can make, so my life's all over the shop.

Cherie: 8:32

You're 15, right yeah?

Brent: 8:34

Well, I'd left school at this stage, so I was a bit older, but still I was a kid and I'd never heard these words and I remember him sitting down saying Tady, until you put some structure, some discipline and routine around your life, you're never, ever gonna be the football player you wanna be. He talked about little things like going to bed at the same time every night, getting up the same time every morning. He was adamant. I had to make my bed and do chores around the house for Mum because he said to me, you do all those little disciplines at home that you don't wanna do. You get in the habit of doing them at home. It's just gonna become second nature when you gotta do the disciplines at training.

Brent: 9:11

And I talked to him about the traineeship at the Leagues Club and I hated it. Like I absolutely hated going there and I was doing 38 hour weeks I think, getting paid 260 bucks on a traineeship wage. It was horrendous. But Wayne told me that until I finished that he was never, ever gonna put me in the first grade squad. He said what that'll teach you will be far outweigh anything I could ever teach you. So I wasn't the brightest of all, but I was smart enough to take his advice. I put some structure, some discipline and routine around what I was doing, even around my diet. I went to bed at the same time every night, get up the same time every morning. I never leave the house, even to this day, without making my bed. Made all those changes, ripped into the traineeship, got that finished and by the end of that year I'd played three first grade games Wow.

Cherie: 9:59

That's awesome.

Brent: 10:00

And I look back now and I see a lot of guys that come in a footy now that they burst into the scene and they're unreal and then they're formed dibs and that's not to sit down with them and talk about the life away from it and how inconsistent they are there. It's just the inconsistencies there go onto the footy field and that was the greatest lesson I've ever learned, because it's not only in sport, it's in everyday life and those lessons that Wayne has taught me, every day I live by them.

Cherie: 10:31

Oh, that's amazing. Thanks for sharing Well.

Andy: 10:33

I think we can stop the podcast there. You've got to carry on.

Cherie: 10:37

It's value already.

Andy: 10:38

Yeah, that's an absolute cracker. Thanks for sharing there.

Brent: 10:40

That's good, it's made and it's 101, right. But a lot of people, I guess like me, you don't realize that how you live your life away has a huge effect on your work or you as an athlete. But so thankful I had someone like Wayne that he's been years ahead of where he should have, where he was even back then, but to have him as a mentor and a coach for eight years. I think Wayne's motto is always better people make better rugby league players, and it's 100% correct and I think Wayne's taught me a lot more about life than he ever taught me about footy. So really bloody thankful for that.

Mandy: 11:18

And it's almost like sometimes we get so fixated on the goal and where we want to be, like all you wanted to do was be on that footy field playing NRL, but really what you needed to focus on are those daily habits that is going to lead, that are going to lead you to that goal of being on the field.

Brent: 11:37

Yep 100%.

Cherie: 11:39

And, like you say, like 101, and it's so funny, I think, in life, whether someone's trying to achieve a goal, or it's a business goal, any personal achievement, it's like we're looking for this silver bullet, like we're looking for this oh, how do I get there? And it's like well, actually it's just the same consistency and the discipline. It kind of wins every time.

Brent: 11:58

Yeah, and it's not easy to do. It is actually really hard to do but yeah, like once you it is simple but so hard to get right. But once you do, like I said, like I really worked hard and I still go to bed at the same time every night, I still get up the same time every morning.

Cherie: 12:17

What are your times? Roughly 10 and five around about.

Brent: 12:22

So actually, as I'm getting a bit older, it's gone out at six o'clock in the morning.

Cherie: 12:26

I was like Jay in a couple of days.

Brent: 12:28

Yeah, we noticed that you've been saying in a couple of days at the time of this podcast. So thank you. Yeah, but really simple, but for a lot of us it's really hard to do. Yeah and I think that's an important distinction, because it's a simple thing but, if it was that easy everyone would be doing it, so it's not easy, but it is.

Cherie: 12:48

It's not this crazy out there wild strategy. It's like be consistent and have the discipline. Yeah, that's amazing.

Brent: 12:55

It's funny actually. Everyone asked me about Wayne and everyone goes what's Wayne like? Why is Wayne so good? And I always think Wayne's greatest. He's got so many great strengths. But I think Wayne's greatest strength and the reason why he gets on so well with all the players is he just gives people his time, and that's the most valuable commodity we can give anyone is our time. But Wayne gives his players time.

Brent: 13:22

And the other thing I think Wayne does, he's obviously got all these disciplines and routines around how he lives his life. But the other thing that stands out for me with Wayne is Wayne's a great coach. Wayne's not technically the greatest coach, but Wayne knows his strengths and his weaknesses and he's always gotten good people in and around him and never felt threatened by having good people in and around him. So for the bits and pieces where he knows he's not good at, he gets people in to, I guess, bring that level up or bring that piece to the puzzle, and never feel threatened by him. So, which is easy sometimes when you're Wayne Bennett, but yeah a lot of lessons from him, for sure it's a decent chunk of self-awareness there, from his point of view maybe.

Brent: 14:04

Oh, mate, absolutely yeah, and I see it in the corporate world a lot, where you get good people in and around you and you don't like Wayne lets them thrive and Wayne gives them the length of rope you go. I'm not good at this, but you are, so you run with this, and I think in the corporate world I even see it sometimes where people do feel threatened by other people that are in the business. But I think ultimately you want everyone playing their part and doing their role and if everyone's successful, well, everyone wins at the end of the day.

Cherie: 14:33

Yeah, 100%. And to me I think it's then that ego like to let your ego, to not bring your ego in and have that humility. And actually that was a word that Mandy described for you when I said oh, tell me about Brent, like you know, knowing him really, what are some of the words you'd use to describe him? There are a few I won't say in here because my dad listens and it's offensive, goodness. No, but humble was one of the ones that was described. How you were described, how is that a natural thing for you? Would you align with that description?

Brent: 15:08

Yeah, no, I think so. I think that comes from being raised by women, though, and my mum, mum's very humble, hardworking. I've got two sisters that if I had ever stood out of line, they'd knock you down pretty quick. I was. They're eight and 10 years older than me, my two sisters so I sort of felt like I grew up as an only child in a way, because it was just mum and I most of the time, as the girls had gone. But we're a really close family. So I think if I ever tried to get a big head, I would have been brought down to earth pretty quick. And look, I've still got a great relationship with dad. We see dad all the time.

Brent: 15:42

I've got a half-brother and sister too, so yeah it's a bit complicated sometimes, but look, we're all a really tight family. I think a lot of people look at our family and are really envious of how close we all really are, which is nice.

Cherie: 15:57

Yeah.

Andy: 15:58

Well Brent, according to Wikipedia at least it says you've played 229 club games across the Broncos, the Cowboys and the New Zealand Warriors Yep Played 23 games for Queensland Yep and 26 games for Australia. It's bang on.

Brent: 16:14

Oh.

Andy: 16:14

Wikipedia round of applause.

Cherie: 16:15

Yeah, it's amazing.

Andy: 16:17

That is quite a career.

Brent: 16:19

Yeah, it was a good career. I hope that it was an awesome career Like I loved it. I feel really fortunate enough to play as long as I did. Yeah, I loved all three clubs that I played at. A lot of people say what's your favourite club that you played at? I can't ever. There's different parts Like. The Broncos is the most professional organisation I played at. I won a comp at Brisbane and I feel like when you do that, you leave a part of yourself at a club like that.

Cherie: 16:49

What year was that?

Brent: 16:50

2006. It was the last premiership there was yeah. Yeah, Went to New Zealand for three years. Absolutely loved the culture and the brotherhood and the closeness of what the Kiwis brought. It was run on a shoestring budget compared to what it was like at Brisbane, which I really struggled with at the start. Funny story my brother-in-law, Steve Price, was the captain.

Mandy: 17:15

Big fan. I take it Shari may have been like obsessed with Steve Price growing up.

Cherie: 17:24

Selfies with him from like years ago. I've been embarrassed. That's really my husband's looking at me horrified, right now. I was quite a fan, yeah.

Mandy: 17:31

No, that's good. Please share your story about Steve Price, your brother-in-law.

Brent: 17:35

Look. So I went to New Zealand and I remember we were training and doing some drills and I must have kept saying, oh, brisbane, we do it like this or Brisbane we do it like this. Because I thought Brisbane was the centre of the earth, like it was the only club in the world. And I remember Price. He grabbed me one day like I said, oh no, maybe do this at Brisbane. I remember him grabbing me by the shirt at train and he shook me. He goes you're not at Brisbane, now You're at the Warriors and there's different ways to skin a cat.

Brent: 18:02

And I sort of sat back and I was like, yeah, you're right, I'm not at Brisbane and I need to get on board with what we're doing here and there are different ways of doing it, like Brisbane's not the only club in the world. And it was a really game-changing point of view of how I viewed the borough is it was almost like, right, I'm gonna just buy into what we're doing here. And I absolutely loved it. It was such a good club and then Finished my career at the Cowboys for four years and never really felt part of a community or what a community felt like, until I lived in Townsville, because it's that regional town. It's a big read like big community. Yeah, so all different things about the different clubs that I loved Playing state of origin.

Brent: 18:44

There's no higher honor than playing for your country, which I absolutely loved, but there's just something about playing for Queensland that I absolutely loved and Even throughout my career when I had injuries and stuff, a big driving factor was always to get back into that marine jersey.

Andy: 19:00

Yeah, I Bet it was Got goosebumps thinking about that being a being a fellow Queenslander, I'm probably tuning into every single game that you played and cheering it on go to go.

Cherie: 19:11

It's when you tell that I was born. You are not oh, I can't help it.

Brent: 19:20

She started, she's gonna started to.

Andy: 19:23

I notice your allegiance is starting to change. We've got a daughter, chloe, and she she's a proud Queenslander. In fact, one day, I think my old man we went round to their house to pick her up. Yeah, and then we go. She's like four years old. We walk in the door and use hero going.

Andy: 19:40

Queenslander, queenslander so it's where we're on the right track there. The I Is this kind of a shameless story from my point of view, but I guess I wanted to chuck it in there and maybe get your thoughts on on some moments as well. I've Play golf. A couple of years ago I turned up kind of for a round. I was just gonna play with a mate. I didn't know who I was gonna play with and we walked in the pro shop and they said oh, you're gonna play with a couple of guests today. Please make sure you show them a good time. You know they're Nice guys. I'm like yeah, okay, cool, all right, no worries.

Andy: 20:09

So we turn up to the first tee and there's Cameron Smith there and he's like I've got my mate Jono coming as well. And Jono starts, jonathan thirsted tears around the quarter in a car Kid A, I'm Jono, hey, you going. And just the had four and a half hours playing golf with them, even googled how much like they would go for in a charity auction to play a game of golf, it's like 30 or 40 grand, something like that, and it was just my mate and I and we had the best time.

Andy: 20:34

We had lunch afterwards and they were so, so generous and so kind with the stories they would share. And one question I asked them kind of threw the round like what was your favorite footballing memory? And For JT, he was talking about origin. Origin was, says, pretty hard to go past that, you know, to pick any of the series wins we had, yeah, any of the back to the wall kind of moments. And can Smith talked about a particularly kangaroos tour in the World Cup in 2011 or something 2013. I'm not sure if you played in that one.

Brent: 21:11

Yeah, no sir.

Andy: 21:12

Yeah, beautiful, great, well, this, this is going well. I'm D D and he talked about he thinks that was the best team that he ever, that ever played in talked about kind of the first game, the first game of the World Cup. You played and I think you guys won, but you let in five tries or something like that. And he said there was a real moment where kind of maybe a couple of days later You're having a team debrief meeting and it was like we're not going to win this tournament if we let in that many tries. Regardless of how many tries we score, we're going to win by defense.

Andy: 21:42

Yeah and then, I think from then on, did not let in a single try.

Brent: 21:45

Yeah, a major, yeah, yeah.

Andy: 21:48

And for his view was that was the best team.

Brent: 21:50

Yeah, yeah, it's um I, I just loved. I'm such a passionate Queenslander look, I just loved playing origin 2006 team. I think for me was probably a real highlight and standout for a few reasons. We'd lost three series in a row. Before that People were saying origin was dead If Queensland didn't win that year. Our senior players, pricy, lockie, petra we're all told before that series which we didn't know that if we didn't win the series that never play origin again. So a huge amount of pressure going into that series.

Brent: 22:27

Mal took over as coach that year. In 2006 I think he debuted in the first game six debutantes, which is unheard of in at that origin level. But I do remember and I think this what makes it more special for me is when Mal took over it. I always say Sometimes when you hit rock bottom it's not a bad place to be because what it does is it allows you to set a new course of path. And 2006 origin for us was rock bottom because we'd lost three series in a row and all those things I just talked about.

Brent: 22:56

There was a lot of pressure but they brought Mal and his coach the start of the year and I think it might have been like December, january, mal got 45 potential players that could have played for Queensland into Royal on the Park in Brisbane, got us all in a big room and basically Sat us all down and said I want you to break up into groups and go away and write down on a piece of paper hey, you want to be viewed by the Queensland public both on and off the field. So we all broke up, we all went away, wrote down all these sort of words and Sentences around how we wanted to be viewed by the Queensland public. We came up, wrote it all on the board. Mal then brought in a lot of the older guys who he wanted us to understand, the history and what it meant to put on the Queensland jersey, because he thought we'd lost. It lost what it meant to play for Queensland I. The other thing Mal did was brought in things like celebrating individual successes.

Brent: 23:55

So if you play 20 Origins, you become it's got a funny name, his name's Dick Tossaterner. He is a legend in Queensland Hallways. He's one of the first managers of the Queensland side when it started, but an absolute legend. So when you play 20 Origins, you become a Tossaterner medal winner. If you play 30, you become a Statesman and if you play 40, which no one thought would be possible, you now become a Camsmith medal winner.

Brent: 24:24

So that, meeting at Royal on the Park, we come up with what is now called the Queensland Way, which, at the end of the day, all it is is a set of team values and behaviours that we come up with as a group that we wanted to be viewed by the Queensland public both on and off the field and is now the Queensland Way. I know Billy still uses it and it's just a set of core values, team behaviours that you just can't, you've got to live and breathe on. And you talked about Ego before. One of them was Czech Ego. At the door we had some of the biggest names playing for us at the time, the greatest players in the world JT, greg Inglis, billy Slater, cooper Cronk the list goes on everyone goes just one because you had those guys.

Brent: 25:12

That's not true. We won because we lived and breathed those team values, which was team first. You didn't do anything personally, that didn't benefit the team when you're in camp, and those guys who were the leaders and the biggest names were the ones who drove those behaviours daily when you're in camp and they were just good guys anyway. But they're the ones that, I guess, set the standards and I reckon that's a big reason we had so much success over a long period of time is because we had that meeting that we had and everyone brought into those values and team behaviours and that was it. We went on and won eight in a row. But my favourite night is the third game in Sydney sorry, melbourne when we won that night. It was probably one of the only nights. I walked off the field personally thinking like job done, like we've done it, like it ticked in the box, we've saved origin. It felt like, which is not the case.

Cherie: 26:06

But it felt like it at the time. Yeah, yeah, that's amazing.

Mandy: 26:12

And am I right in saying that your last game was an origin game?

Brent: 26:17

Yeah, it was.

Mandy: 26:18

Yeah, yeah, and you got injured, hence why, it was your last game, but that definitely wasn't the first injury you ever experienced on the football field. So do you want to take us back to your early days and your first injuries and the impact that had on you?

Brent: 26:35

Yeah, I do say footy gave me a whole lot, but it's taken a hell of a lot from me as well. I reckon I've lost count around 20 operations. I think I've had like four knee recos and shoulder recos, broken jaw, like the list goes on. So I never, ever, begrudge any footballer getting paid what they get paid, because it's tough and to be good at it controls your whole life on and off the field. The biggest well, not the biggest injury, but one of my first injuries was my neck injury. So I used to play the neck brace which I said you're familiar with.

Cherie: 27:12

Yeah.

Brent: 27:13

I'd love a dollar for everyone to go. Oh, I didn't recognise you there. Your neck brace. I'm like I don't wear it everywhere.

Cherie: 27:18

Thanks to you and that was.

Brent: 27:19

I was reading about that it was 2003.

Andy: 27:24

Yeah, it was pretty early on. It was a kangaroos match maybe.

Brent: 27:27

I kept getting we call them burners in rugby league. So basically what was happening is, anytime my head had go back, it had crushed the nerves that run out of your neck, that attached your arm and your arm had go completely dead and it just burns. It's a horrible nerve pain only gums on for a little bit and then it goes. But I kept getting these repeat burners, to the point I'd got one in New Zealand where I literally couldn't even pick up a glass of water like it. The nerves were that damaged and I remember going to the doctor, did all the tests and he just basically said mate, it's the way you made up, but you can't keep playing because you're going to lose a feeling in your arm. And I remember that day actually Wayne came to the surgeon the neck surgeon with me to obviously have the appointment. And on the way home we're driving back to the leagues club and I remember looking at Wayne because there was only 22 or 23 I think at the time.

Brent: 28:20

I remember saying to Wayne, like what am I going to do? Because I was footy and that was it, and I remember Wayne sitting down and it's sort of half calmed me down a little bit. I remember him saying Tatey, if you've got a good work ethic and you're a good person, people are always going to want you in their business. And that's sort of I was like, okay, I'm not useless, like there's probably going to be a life if this doesn't all work out. But we end up coming up with the the neck brace which basically would stop my head from going all the way back, which would stop that last five or 10% of compression on that nerve, and 12 years later, playing with the neck brace, I kept playing. So, yeah, it's pretty amazing, based it off the NASCAR drivers, basically. So it's just a foam neck brace that I just strapped down onto a shoulder harness and Velcro and wow it.

Cherie: 29:06

Comfort wise. How was that to adjust in the other stages?

Brent: 29:10

I was really, when I first started, really self-conscious because everyone was sort of laughing about it and thought it was a big joke. But it wasn't to me, obviously, because it was my whole life really at the time what I thought. But like, in the end it was just like putting a pair of boots on, it's just part of game day routine and what I did.

Cherie: 29:30

And a couple of things. Like I'm just so blown away by the impact obviously Wayne's had in your life, like it's phenomenal, just that reminder about coaches or mentors or just those people and the smallest things people can say, that can literally change everything in the way that you're seeing, then your future in such a challenging time to know that it's going to be okay. As far as then you just said about people laughing and like can you, can you tell me a bit about that? Because you're in the public eye and you know there's always the career mail and the media and yeah, how do you deal with?

Brent: 30:03

that Don't read it don't listen.

Brent: 30:09

It is hard, though, and it's completely different again now because everyone's got social media and the world's completely different. Back then it was pretty easy to ignore, because if you didn't read the paper, you didn't watch TV, you sort of you could, you could ignore or shelter yourself from it. It's a little bit different these days because obviously you know players are on their phone and stuff I don't know. I just I just never brought, I never brought into being a big footy player or I always, throughout my whole career, I always knew it was going to come to an end at some stage. Like I was always really aware that at some stage it's going to come to an end and you're not going to be a rugby league player anymore. So I guess I just never.

Brent: 30:51

There are times where you'd have to check yourself to not get lost in that whole rugby league world of being a superstar not me personally, you know, just being lost in that superstar world, which sort of is in a way, but I just never allowed myself to go down that path because I just always knew it one day to finish and again, I've got a million Wayne stories I'll never, ever forget this one day we'd we'd all been out on the drink one night and one of the boys at the Bronx had was rude to the lady behind the bar and it got back to the club and I remember Wayne sitting all our shung blokes down one day and it was a really key moment.

Brent: 31:27

I remember him saying to me just because you're good at rugby league, you blokes doesn't make you better than anyone else on the street. Like doesn't matter if the person's serving your drinks or making your sandwich, it all it does is make you good at football. That's it. It doesn't make you. You know, you're not better than anyone else in this world. And it was like I just sat there and I thought, holy, like he's dead right. Like just because we're good at footy doesn't mean you're better than anyone else like it.

Cherie: 31:51

And it was just a real, I guess, grounding moment for me hearing that story from Wayne, so yeah, now correct me if I'm wrong or saying something out of place, but I feel that maybe there's other footballers that may need to have that reminder these days oh, definitely.

Brent: 32:08

But you know what, on a whole, I think they're all pretty good, like some of them every now and then. But man, it's, it's. We've got to be sympathetic. Sometimes it look. A lot of these guys come from bad backgrounds. They get a lot of money, there's a lot of fame, there's a lot of. It's so easy to get swept up and lost into that and a lot of the time they go to advice to mum and dad about money and those sort of things and mum and dad haven't got my look. So there's so many pitfalls and traps around these young kids that come in and we're, at the end of the day, I'm a bit on the fence with it, like. I'm like, if you take the paycheck that comes with that responsibility, so you've got to live and live up to that. But young men and people do make mistakes, yeah, and it's just. It's just hard to grow one up, but unfortunately for those guys, when they do there's there's big consequences.

Cherie: 32:57

Now yeah, and these days there's cameras and photos and everything everywhere. So yeah, yeah, fair enough, it is fair enough. I don't think that people always have that empathy or that perspective to go. Well, you know, imagine if you had that scenario. How are you gonna act?

Brent: 33:11

yeah, yeah, eat the grounding it is and it's. It is so easy to. I could imagine now it'd be just so easy to get lost in it and yeah, it'd be tough. It'd be a lot tougher than when we were playing.

Cherie: 33:22

I think so, tell us yeah. Going back to your injuries, your um no, no, no, that's me. I'm going off on tangents. I just want to know all the things. But, um, so you've got your. You've got your neck brace. Can you just talk through like the fear or what emotion? I'm assuming fear. But you know, if you've got this injury, um how much is it playing in your mind around? Not it not getting worse or re-injuring yourself?

Brent: 33:48

um, yeah it, there's a fair bit of fear because I was obviously afraid. I was afraid of the pain, because the pain was like when you got them it was excruciating um, so I was probably more fearful than that than anything else. Really, to be honest, um, I think the ways I got around being able to come back from injuries is I was always really mindful of and again it's another lesson from Wayne um just controlling what you can control and the rest is really white noise, I guess. So I was always really mindful of um doing my rehab properly, like I always had good work ethic. We mentioned sort of thought of that, so mentioned that before I always had a really strong work ethic.

Brent: 34:32

Um, so anytime a doctor or um a physio told me to you know, do something in and around my injuries, I would do it to the mth degree like I would. My discipline around that was like I just wouldn't. If they told me to walk 400 laps, I would walk 400 laps regardless of what was going on. That's, I had to get that done. So my thought process around coming back from injuries was I'll do the rehab to the absolute mth degree of to what they told me to do, get it as strong and and do my absolute best. So if I come back and re-injure it, well that's, I can look back and go. You know what? I'll make over that because I've done everything I can control and there's no, I've got no regret.

Brent: 35:11

So, and and getting over that fear and um, I've come back and playing. I think I just the way I dealt with that was just by preparing the best I could and again through rehab, making sure I did all my training. And yeah, mate, I had doubts throughout my whole career my, my last origin game or that last series. I remember one of the games I got so worked up and I remember running out and I didn't play well because I'd burnt too much nervous energy and I'd played 23 games and I still wasn't immune to getting it wrong on the day, like so that doubt and nervousness was always there. But I guess I just go back to having a good preparation, having that discipline and routine around, preparing as best I could and just for me I used to sign myself for. The rest is up to the 40 gods. That's how I used to actually self-talk yeah, that's cool it takes, sorry, here you go.

Mandy: 36:07

I was just going to say. I've never asked you this before, but I'm really curious to know like what was that moment, like your last injury, your last game, like that moment where you realize like this, is it like that?

Brent: 36:22

This is really vivid. That's a. I've got a. There's four or five vivid things that happened throughout my career and this is one of them. I'll never, ever forget this, it's as clear as day. I've had three knee reconstructions and I knew I was only one more away from being done Again, did all the rehab and stuff and and just thought to myself what does happen again? It's up to the footy gods. If it does it, does it for doesn't, doesn't. I'll never, ever forget that origin game. I stepped off my right leg and I felt it go and I hit the ground and on every like there was would have been 60, 70,000 people there and I remember everything just went completely quiet and I remember I Get goosebumps actually talking about it.

Brent: 37:04

I remember going um remember going Shit, I've done my knee, I'm never playing again and I cannot even begin to explain this feeling and Excuse my French. I remember going thank fuck, that's over, I know like it was almost like this whole whole pressure of it. Just I said to my mom the only way I can explain is like someone had cut the rope around my chest and for my first time my adult life I was like I can breathe, like I don't.

Brent: 37:34

Yeah, that's, and don't get me wrong, I loved playing and I would have played another 12 months and retired, but that, that feeling of I can, it was like I'd live with that pressure and expectation the whole my whole life and for the first time I actually felt like I didn't have that and I was like, and I remember saying thank God, that's over, like it was almost. Yeah, I know it was a relief in a way.

Brent: 38:01

Yeah it's crazy and I remember thinking they were gonna stretch me off and I was like I'm not gonna get stretched. At my last game I walk off and A good made him always thought I'd have a fairy tale finish, but a good made him one has told me fairy tales of for children's books. So but the thing that I love the most is I finished in the Queensland Jersey, which is a jersey I love the most, and I'd respected it and cherished it, and my last game was plain origin. So I sort of look back and go.

Andy: 38:29

You know it's all too bad feel like you got a nice, a nice balance in there, somewhere between sort of like the, the expectation in the moment, what you expect to yourself, and then also the delivery in terms of like it's up to the footy gods. There's like a peak performance somewhere in there where the anxiety doesn't tip over, unless, you see said, unless you don't get your routine right, yeah, your structure right, or your rhythm right. There is that something that you do. You feel like you Kind of see the world that way, largely even in terms of how you operate now. Or is that a learned thing largely from paying footy?

Brent: 39:07

I think it's definitely a learnt thing from playing footy. Definitely, yeah, it's definitely footy, like having Wayne and and having rugby league, like the similarities of between an NRL club and Corporate world or business. It's all the same like it's all, it's just different format. I guess it's same same but different. And I always say to people if you want to, if you want to run a high performing business, it makes decisions quickly. That's at you know, making you know high-pressured Decisions got to be made quickly.

Brent: 39:39

Go and spend some time at an NRL club because that's like that's how those clubs operate, like you know. And you come out of footy world and you you go into the corporate world. You get you know I'm. What I'm trying to say is when you're in the footy world, I guess you get in feedback all the time. Every day you get in judged people are telling you how to improve every single day. Then you leave that and it's. It's not like that at all, which has got some challenges. But I think it's definitely a learnt thing, mate. Just having that balance of yeah, keeping a keeping a lid on the anxiety or the nerves, I guess is yeah, it's something that's been taught.

Cherie: 40:17

Have you got strategies that does help you with anxiety and keeping a lid on it? Is it mental, is it physical, is it a combo?

Brent: 40:23

I just always go back to the process hey look, just making sure Life's good off. If anything ever goes wrong, I always go hey, what's going on with what party your life away? What haven't you got right?

Cherie: 40:35

Yeah, like diet, like diet sleep.

Andy: 40:38

You know exercising, yeah, all that stuff.

Brent: 40:40

I always go back to that and I always find that that's that stuff I can control. I go back to that and If I get that right, then most often and more often and not life's pretty, pretty, pretty level.

Brent: 40:53

Yeah and everyone has their ups and downs, don't get me wrong. Like Everyone, you have your good and bad days. The other thing, too, I think with me is, if I'm having a bad day or a bad week, I don't ever shy away from Feeling it like I actually allow myself to go. You know what it is shit month, or I'm having a real shit week. I'm not. I'm not anything, but just being sad and down and that's okay.

Andy: 41:16

Like I've never, ever shied away from.

Brent: 41:19

You know people get sad, I gotta get happy. I'm like, no, I am sad, I'm disappointed, I'm I'm not enjoying this, I'm not enjoying this, and I've always allowed myself to have them feelings, but I always make sure that I've got the process right to get to or a plan to get out of that.

Cherie: 41:31

Yeah, oh, that that, for me, is going to be the clip in the podcast, I think. I just feel that there's so much in that like for all people men I'm going to say is in particular, but for all of us about like, actually feel your emotions, and it's not good or bad, it's just experiencing the emotion, but to own it and not to be Shy about it. I think so many people just want to tuck it away or not not discuss it, doesn't always feel, hasn't always been so manly to do that, right. But I think now more than ever, it's so important to talk about Emotions and feelings and anxiety and whatever it is, so that you can live a healthy life.

Brent: 42:08

I think so I just, yeah, I've just, you know, even when I had injuries and I was, you know, really disappointed, and there's some sometimes where I was just utterly guarded, like some really huge disappointment, but I Never sat there and thought I'm not not like I am gonna kick stones for a week or two because it's I am sad, like it, this sucks, like I've been dealt shit card. Yeah, in regards to footy, of course, but I allowed myself to have those couple of days or couple of weeks where I'm like, yeah, I am disappointed and this does suck. And then I always found that once I've allowed myself to sort of feel those feelings, you're like, all right, it's time to it's time to put a plan in place. Let's, let's start to crawl your way out of being disappointed and start to shift your focus to right. Oh, what have I got to do next, you know? So, yeah, I don't know, footies taught me a lot. I think it's been. I've been really thankful to have it in my life, I reckon, yeah.

Mandy: 43:03

You spoke before about your last game and that feeling of like that pressure taken off you. What's it like living in a community town like townsville, where you Might have a have a great win one week and the community is just so happy and Surrounding you and encouraging you? What happens in those weeks where you don't have a win or you're having a bad run? What's that like for for you as the player?

Brent: 43:34

horrible yeah, it's really I hated it and I Love life away from football because you're not doing this Week in and week out and lost, wins and losses don't determine how you should feel during the week, because when I'd lose, if I didn't play well, I'd really struggle to go out to the shops or out in public because I felt embarrassed. No one else would have felt it like, no one else would have even been thinking it, but I felt that. So I think when I talk about the pressure and expectation and life being a bit more level is because of you know all the combinations of those sort of things. So I found it really difficult to be honest and, yeah, now that I don't have that part of my life, I just love that life's a lot more. Yeah, I'm not riding the roller coaster, because rugby league, like wins and losses, week in and week out, determine how your week goes, and I Did that for my whole adult life and it was so nice when it I didn't have to have that.

Mandy: 44:29

Yeah, so. So who is Brent Tate now post rugby league? Oh, man?

Brent: 44:36

um, I had. Geez, that's a hard question. Actually. I'm still that sort of disciplined person, you know I'd I still don't think I've found the thing that I'd love to do Work wise.

Brent: 44:54

I don't ever try and replace what footy gave me, because that I'm never gonna get that. And I'm again, I'm really acutely aware of what rugby league gave me. Nothing's ever gonna replace that. Like how can you replace what rugby league gave me from a high point of view? So I don't chase that. But I still think. I still think I'm sort of finding what. Where I want to go, I'd love to find something that I go. Yeah, you know what this is gonna be the next 10 years of my life. That would be nice. I don't think I've found that yet. But you know, I've worked in the corporate and commercial space the Cowboys. I worked in health insurance for four or five years and now I'm doing energy breaking with a mate of mine and it's so. It's been a. I've worked in all sort of different parts of different businesses and it's been good. I've. I've enjoyed life away from footy, because for a lot of guys it's a real struggle.

Cherie: 45:43

Yeah, I was curious to ask you about that. I know that um the energy-breaking.

Andy: 45:50

Otherwise known as power Um.

Cherie: 45:54

One of a connection or a friend of ours, libby trick it. She's got a podcast and she talks about Two athletes post like in retirement and it's so fascinating listening to those stories and I know that was something that she has publicly talked about how difficult that was for her when she finished swimming to go. Who am I? What do I do in this world? And, yeah, I guess, what was those first couple of years transition for you?

Brent: 46:19

Yeah, I Found it on one of the lucky ones. So I stay connected to the game, which anyone who ever comes out of the game has had a long career. I always say to me if you can just stay connected in some way, whether it's at a local footy club or whatever it is I think that's really important because you don't ever want to go away from cold turkey because it's been a big part of our life. You don't ever want to lose that connection to the game. But I'll never know. The real, vivid sort of or, I guess, important piece of when I come out of footy was. I met a lady by the name of Janna Culver.

Brent: 46:56

Janna was doing the transition program through the NRL who have spent a lot of time and money in this space in helping guys retire out of footy. And I remember when I finished I was asking a lot of the guys about retirement and I got no good stories. It was horrible. Every time I'd ask someone that gave me it's horrible, I've sacked, I've had, you know, I've suffered from depression. I just I hated it. And I remember coming home saying to my family I'm going to stop asking because I'm getting no good stories and I'm starting to like it's just not good.

Brent: 47:28

And I remember sitting down with Janna this day going through the program. She said, tati, how are you going to go in retirement? And I said, look, I'll be OK, I'll struggle but I'll be OK. And I remember a sort of like. She sort of like sat up a little bit and she goes well, why are you going to struggle? And I said, oh, because everyone else has.

Brent: 47:46

And she goes, yeah, but why are you going to struggle? And she's like what a sort of? Pointed me in the chest and I was like, oh, I don't know, like I'm just because everyone else and she goes, yeah, but what? Why can't you be that positive story? For when blokes ask you about retirement, you can be the positive story. And she challenged me on my mindset and I'd never really thought about mindset too much throughout my whole career. But she challenged me on it and I 100% think if she hadn't I would have been OK, but I would have struggled because that's what everyone else did. But I feel like I'm the positive story when people come to me about retirement, because I think Janna was like mate, just shift your mindset out of that to this way. It was only just a minor shift.

Andy: 48:30

Yeah.

Brent: 48:31

And retirement's been good for me. I've, I've, I don't miss 41 bit, but I loved it more than anyone, but I just don't miss it.

Cherie: 48:37

Yeah, I love that so, so much and it's amazing, so wonderful, that she called you forward or out of that. But when we tell ourselves something like we're right you know that, old if you think you can, if you can't, you're right, quote, and it's so true, Like if you say you're going to struggle, guess what? You're going to struggle.

Brent: 48:55

Well, that's just what everyone else did, so. I was going to be any different, and that's sort of how I was thinking. But yeah, so really thankful that she was a part of that process to sort of, I guess, cool you out a little bit. Yeah, that's so powerful.

Andy: 49:09

Pull your head in.

Brent: 49:10

Like, if you want to, if you're going to think, well, that's going to be a struggle, but if you just shift it a little bit, it can be whatever you want it to be and it's been good yeah.

Cherie: 49:20

Incredible.

Mandy: 49:22

What would you? What would you say? Your greatest achievement in life is.

Brent: 49:28

Oh, being a good person, I think yeah. And and trying to instill those values in your children, yeah, sorry, I think I'm going to get emotional now, too.

Mandy: 49:45

I think that something that you haven't spoken about is that you are a dad, and a truly incredible one at that, and I know that you've raised two kids, that I truly hope my kids grow up to be like your kids.

Brent: 50:00

Oh, thank you. Yeah, I think the greatest compliment you can ever give my mum is I try to raise my kids like we've been raised. So, yeah, yeah, bloody mum and the kids Every time.

Brent: 50:17

Yeah it's good. I just you, just want to raise good people. I think, like even at school and stuff, I'm always into my young fellow. I'm like mate, I want you to do your best. I don't need you to be a genius, but just be a good person. Just have a good work ethic. Be a good person. People are going to want you to be in your you know people are going to want to be around you and for the most part they get it right. Sometimes they drive me insane.

Mandy: 50:37

Well, well, I would say your greatest achievement is those two beautiful kids that you've raised. So well done, congrats.

Andy: 50:45

Thank you.

Mandy: 50:45

Oh, it's so beautiful.

Andy: 50:46

I think that really shines through. I kind of feel like you can't help but have those values and keep the kind of company you keep like Mandy over here as well. To you know, without being a good human, and that really resonates and shines through more than any other story you've told today. So, you know, I don't really know what else there is to say on that other than, like, I'm grateful that I've had this experience even so far, because it's it's it's kind of reinforced some things and it's taught me a lot.

Brent: 51:18

So pretty shout out.

Cherie: 51:24

I think sometimes that people in the public or a mass of people like footy, footy players, can have that reputations on mass, which is a bit unfair, and you know all the taps and the funny haircuts and all the things that people may see, and I just, I'm just sitting here going, wow, what an honor it actually is to meet you properly and hear the humility and hear your story or pieces of your story and like, wow, this is this to me is like absolutely one on one role model of sports people and athletes and what then little boys and little girls can look up and go, that's what I want to be like and yeah, I just think it's incredible and I have so much respect for it because I sometimes, when people get caught in there, the money and the fame and the success and the one for achievement, if they can forget actually the impact they're having, like the role models they actually are for the community and for people, and to me that's.

Cherie: 52:24

I mean, obviously we work in leadership, so that's kind of our what we're passionate about, but I think the role model that you are as a human being, it's quite phenomenal. So, yeah, it's. I feel so privileged that you're here sharing part of your story with us.

Brent: 52:36

Oh, thank you. I'm not perfect, by all means no.

Cherie: 52:39

Mandy did mention that. No, none of us are right, none of us are but I think the like who you are inside, it shines through.

Mandy: 52:48

And I think, yes, none of us are perfect, but it's all about our intentions at the end of the day, like, do we intend to show up to be a good human? And that's what it's all about, and 100% you do.

Brent: 53:01

Yeah, I do appreciate it's been good to be here and share some stories. It's nice to share stories because, again, as I said, it's not none of it's rocket science, like it's actually really basic. But it is sometimes hard to do because, like you said, everyone would be doing it. But yeah, I've had some really great men. Look, I've got a great family. That's the first and foremost. I've got an awesome family and I've had some really good like leaders, like captains and co-chairs, co-chairs along the way that have, I guess, again have taken time to help Maldi in being a better person so.

Brent: 53:40

I'm really fortunate that I've. Yeah, that's been a big part of me growing up, and growing as a person is just having good people to learn off, and I think you said mentors before. There's that many good mentors I've had throughout my time in my footy career and even post footy there's been some excellent ones, and I'm like without them, like, yeah, without passing your knowledge and having someone to share and take time, yeah, none of us know what we you know, you don't grow into the person you are without having it. So, yeah, I've been lucky.

Cherie: 54:11

That's awesome. Are you mentoring anyone now passing it back. I'm trying to mentor my kids In a professional footy, or is there a set up for that?

Brent: 54:23

No, not really there is. I haven't done it for a couple of years. So with the Marones they actually have. So in the younger groups they usually get a couple of former players to go back and be a mentor, like in the 19's and 17's. And again it's about going back and sharing our stories or giving the history around what it means to play for Queensland and what the Jersey meant to us, and I guess it's just passing on that tradition and when you think about it, when you think about it, the reason the mentoring come about is because our history has been about being the underdog and, you know, being beaten down, and a lot of the kids that have come through have only seen Queensland have success.

Cherie: 55:05

Yeah.

Brent: 55:05

So it's really important to go. Yeah, we are successful, but this is the reason why we are because we come from here. So that's how the whole mentor program started. So yeah, so I know every like the 17's and 19's, there's always guys going back and they'll spend the week in camp and you know, help coach but also just share some old war stories back in our day.

Cherie: 55:27

Yeah, if we were to wrap up with one last question and I guess, taking the lessons from the football field and coaches, the mentors, what is one tip or one thing you would love to see in leadership, in the work, in the workforce, in the corporate world? What's one leadership tip from your footy days that you think people could employ into the workplace?

Brent: 55:52

Yeah, give feedback.

Cherie: 55:54

Awesome.

Brent: 55:55

I mean, I cannot, for the life of me, understand. So I talked about footy. You get feedback after every single session. You get feedback on the moment you walk into a footy club that morning and to the moment you walk out. You get feedback from everyone and sometimes it's good, sometimes it's bad.

Brent: 56:16

But then I went to the corporate world and I'm sitting there going, mate, am I doing a good job? Like, because no one said anything ever, like you might do a yearly review and you're like yearly, like really, so if I'm going crap, you're going to tell me 12 months down the path, like I just I would encourage everyone to give feedback like good and bad, like, but be given feedback like review performance. You know that's I. Just I've never understood it. I don't understand it. Yeah, but it's for me. You don't get better as a rugby player unless you get feedback. Well, it's the same. And what? You're not going to get better and have better performance unless someone's again mentoring or teaching or helping or providing feedback good or bad, because sometimes it's not all good, but at least you can, yeah, just give feedback.

Mandy: 57:03

Yes, maybe those companies need lumenate leadership to come in and run a workshop for them. By the sounds, of it.

Cherie: 57:08

Yeah, so we insert our ad about what we actually do. But yeah, we couldn't agree, right oh?

Mandy: 57:13

that's good. So true, so true.

Cherie: 57:16

Yeah, yeah, amazing, amazing. Well, can I give you some feedback on this podcast? Yeah, I think you've done a great job.

Brent: 57:23

Oh, thank you.

Cherie: 57:24

I appreciate the honesty, the vulnerability, the stories where I feel I could see more from you is more dirt on man, yeah, actually.

Mandy: 57:34

It's probably there's nothing to share.

Brent: 57:37

It's probably a separate podcast, I think so I think so, thanks so much. Awesome, loved it. Good luck, thanks. Thank you.

Mandy: 57:54

Thanks.