Matt Kratiuk & Kirsty Rourke | LIVE - For Vinnies CEO Sleepout | Lead with Courage

Imagine rising from the depths of addiction and homelessness to become a beacon of hope and innovation in the community. That's the story of Matt Kratiuk, a former ice addict who reclaimed his life and now serves as Chief Growth Officer at TACTIC, and passionate Ambassador for the Vinnies CEO Sleepout. His journey is a striking example of resilience and transformation, one that he generously shares in this heart-rending episode. Alongside him, we welcome Kirsty Rourke, an influential force in social and affordable housing. Together, their experiences shed light on our capacity for change and the collective power of value-driven leadership.

The conversation pivots to the societal tremors caused by homelessness, scrutinising the stark realities, overlooked statistics and the real costs of not solving this escalating crises.  Personal stories intertwine with hard-hitting facts,  as we discuss the alarming number of homeless Australians and the unique struggles faced by older women and families without shelter.

Wrapping up with tangible hope, we discuss the instrumental role businesses and community initiatives play in giving back and fuelling change.

Join us, be moved, and if you feel led to donate to the fundraising efforts, you can do so here.

If you'd like to hear more of Matt Kratiuk's story listen to his first Lead with Courage episode - Back from the Brink on Spotify or Apple Podcasts.

You can follow Kirsty and her incredible work at Social Impact Capital on Linkedin.
(7) Kirsty Rourke | LinkedIn

(7) Social Impact Capital Australia: Overview | LinkedIn

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Thanks for joining us on the Lead with Courage podcast, bought to you by Luminate Leadership. We trust this episode has given you some insights and joy to empower you live your biggest, best life.

If you enjoyed it, we'd be grateful if you like, share and subscribe to hear our future conversations.

To find out more about the work we do Luminate Leadership connect with us:
Luminate's Website and LinkedIn and on
Instagram : Luminate_Leadership and Cherie Canning

Until the next episode, we hope you live and Lead with Courage!
Cherie and Andy x
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Luminate Leadership is not a licensed mental health service and is not a substitute for professional mental health advice, treatment or assessment. The advice given in this episode is general in nature, but if you’re struggling, please see a healthcare professional, or call lifeline on 13 11 14.

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Hi, I'm Chloe Canning. Welcome back for Season 2 on Lead with Courage. Luminate Leadership acknowledges the traditional Australian third-world land which we would call this podcast, the Uyghur and Terrible People. We pay respect to the Elders, past, present and emerging.

Cherie Canning: 0:19

Welcome to Lead with Courage, the podcast that celebrates the bold and inspiring stories of leaders making a difference. We're your hosts, andy and Cherie Canning, and together we'll dive into the minds of the trailblazers, the risk takers and those who embrace life with a growth mindset.

Andy Canning: 0:40

Well, ladies and gentlemen, my name's Andy for those that might have heard my voice once or twice and maybe not even seen my face. But here I am, and we have an incredibly special occasion tonight where we're filming and recording our first live podcast, or our first podcast in person with a studio audience.

Cherie Canning: 0:58

Cue the cheer.

Andy Canning: 1:00

Yeah, that's it. Thank you, and I'm so stoked that we get to do this. And a huge shout out to the beautiful team at Play Shannon, thank you so much for having us tonight, and Amy as well, and I guess I'll hand over to Cherie and what we'll do is go around and maybe introduce everyone and talk a little bit about our beautiful guests, matt and Kirsty, as well as to why we've come together tonight.

Cherie Canning: 1:24

Yeah, beautiful Thanks, Andy. Actually, Matt, I'm going to get you to introduce Kirsty, but before I'm going to, yeah, I'm just going to throw it to Matt. Matt has already been a guest on the Lead with Courage podcast. He's someone I remember. The first time Andy and I met you, we were in a cafe.

Speaker 1: 1:40

actually, we weren't in a cafe we were in a rooftop bar having a beautiful lunch. I was just thinking there was nothing cafe, about it um and somewhere in that conversation we're there for business reasons.

Cherie Canning: 1:54

Somewhere in that conversation you opened up about past part of your life. Yes, um, maybe you can explain what that is, why you're here, and then we'll introduce kirsty and then we'll get into some more of the why we're here as a fundraiser tonight for the Vinnie CEO Sleepout.

Matt Kratiuk: 2:09

Sure, thank you. So my name's Matt Craddock. Today I am the Chief Growth Officer of a company called Tactic, a national leasing advisory and commercial fit-out firm, very proudly headquartered here in Brisbane, certainly one of Queensland's fastest growing companies. I'm also brand ambassador to the Vinnie CEO Sleepout. This will be my fifth year as brand ambassador to the Sleepout. We'll probably talk a little bit more about my story later on.

Matt Kratiuk: 2:33

But why solving homelessness is so important to me is that 10 years ago I was a homeless ice addict, living in a park in Sydney. At that stage I was 32 years old. I'd never held down a job in my life and, in sadly, many people's view, I was a stain on the front door of society for a very long time. I had first become homeless at 15 and then went through some crazy stuff which we'll probably elaborate on a little bit later. But yeah, today life is amazing. I'm about to get married to the love of my life. You know we bought our dream home. You know life's good, it's full of love, it's full of, you know, great relationships and lots of purpose. You know, and Vinnie's and the work that we do in that space is probably, you know, the equal biggest part other than my beautiful fiancée.

Matt Kratiuk: 3:17

So I would also like to segue to my speaking of beautiful people. My beautiful friend, kirstieourke. Uh, I, when I I actually hunted kirsty down she'll tell you this uh, a few years ago and, um, you know a couple of people that I hold in you know that I hold in very high regard, whose opinions I I respect. Uh, in the brisbane leadership community, uh had spoken very highly of kirsty and you know k Kirsty was the CEO of City of Brisbane Investment Corporation and you know hundreds of millions of dollars worth of assets sat underneath her and you know, obviously, quite an impressive team and she was certainly someone that I had been, that I'd heard of in many circles as a very admired and respected leader in the Brisbane community. I hunted her down. I literally got cold, called you, didn't I?

Kirsty Rourke: 4:07

It was through LinkedIn. Yeah, yeah, it's where you do your best work, the worst right.

Matt Kratiuk: 4:12

I know, I'm just for the record. I just relentlessly bar people that try and do that to me. That's horrible, but for some reason it worked, because I reached out to Kirsty wanting to talk to her about the CEO sleepout and we met and I just, you know, thought so highly of her immediately. Um, before I hand over to her, I think one of the things that I'm so proud of, um with my friend Kirsty is that, uh, you know, when she left her last very, you know, very important CEO role, she she could have taken on any job on the planet. I mean, on paper, anyone would have taken her. She chose not to do that and she chose to focus solely on solving homelessness and using her skill set to do that. So I would like to introduce my beautiful friend, ladies and gentlemen, kirsty Rourke.

Kirsty Rourke: 4:59

Thank you for having me. It's a real privilege to be here tonight having me. It's a real privilege to be here tonight. So I have founded Social Impact Capital Australia and I really got a heart for women. I feel like my personal purpose in life is to make women's lives better and so through that vehicle, I'm trying to increase the supply of social and affordable housing specifically for women and that's, I suppose, why I'm here tonight. But that meeting with Matt and what attracted me to the CEO Sleepout was Matt's bold and that bold vision to end homelessness. And we were talking about the Olympics, so end homelessness by 2032. And that was really what got me across the line because I thought, yeah, we can do that, that's something that's achievable, that's something I can get behind and I love something bold and big. And why can't we end homelessness?

Matt Kratiuk: 6:01

yeah, amazing and just for the record, I won't block you if you message me on linkedin if you've listened to this podcast, matt will accept your request he will have coffee with you at a cafe or a rooftop bar, beautiful, beautiful

Andy Canning: 6:16

well, the first question we'd like to ask to, to kick off with um and ask both of our guests what does lead with courage mean to you?

Kirsty Rourke: 6:23

all right, well, I'll kick off. So to me, I've been thinking about this. I've been schooling myself on the podcast and noticed that they asked everybody. So, for me, leading with courage is being authentic, it's taking risks, it's owning your mistakes and then pursuing your goals is my definition beautiful thank you, I love that.

Matt Kratiuk: 6:48

I love that. Um, it's a great question, I think, for me. I don't I don't share this with many people, but, um, you know I do a lot of, I'll do a lot of speaking stuff, uh, particularly around this time of the year. Um, you know, I do work with vinnie's queensland. I also work with vinnie's new south wales and you know this is is sort of a busy season for me. I actually do this work. No one would know this about me other than my fiancée. I do this work with great anxiety, like really really bad anxiety.

Matt Kratiuk: 7:15

I have diagnosed PTSD and I've been through some profoundly traumatic experiences in my life. That's a dance that I do and know I've I've learned how to do that dance, uh, the point of the story is, um, I got to a point one day where I said, well, this was always going to be hard for me to do, but, um, but I need to do it because if I can, if I can encapsulate the stuff that I've gone through, uh, and use it just to influence even just one life, then it's actually worth it, and that's the thing that I hold on to. And so I make no apologies about getting it wrong many times. I've made some huge mistakes.

Matt Kratiuk: 7:55

I'm very authentic, I'm very transparent. Everyone that knows me knows me well, and I think that's really important in leadership. I think a very important part something that I've learnt personally in the hardest ways, to be honest is that you've got to own your own stuff and you've got to take your own medicine, and I think what separates mediocre from greatness is the ability to own your own things and to put measures in place to make sure that those things don't happen again. Sometimes you've got to eat humble pie and I've done that more than most, but for me, that's what courage looks like. It's about being transparent, it's about ownership and it's about accountability.

Cherie Canning: 8:40

Yeah, beautiful, can we give him a clap? Yeah, and both of them, kirstie and Matt. Thank you. One of the questions we wanted to ask and you've alluded to it a little bit, but just to go a little bit deeper into this is what has led you here as advocates to the CEO Sleepout in particular. Obviously, kirstie, you've just mentioned about your personal purpose, which is stunning and beautiful. And Matt, you mentioned that you were homeless and you're an ice addict and had an interesting, maybe first half of your life or first section. Ben, can you, you know, bridge the gap there for us now, for those who might not know the whole story, and for those who haven't listened to the podcast episode with Matt, you've got to go back and listen, because we're not going to retell the whole story. And for those who haven't listened to the podcast episode with matt, you've got to go back and listen, because we're not going to retell the whole story of matt we'll put it in the show notes.

Cherie Canning: 9:29

Yeah, but it's, it's a, it's got to be. You've got to listen, um, but yeah, can you guys just share with us what's led you to this point as advocates right now?

Matt Kratiuk: 9:37

I'll, uh, I'll, try and make this snappy then, um, I'll give you the short version, so just a good version.

Matt Kratiuk: 9:43

Yes, yes, look, I came from a great family when I was a kid but sadly that family fell apart due to some you know unforeseen circumstances and by the time I was 15, I ended up living on the streets. From the age of 15 to 18, I was homeless. I lived on the streets of Cronulla and, you know, at a time where a young boy is trying to become a young man, where your identity is being formed, was a time where a young boy is trying to become a young man, when your identity is being formed was a time where I was just full of shame, guilt and fear and all these horrible things. So for me it was easier to take drugs and alcohol and to mask those emotions because I didn't understand or was able to compute what was going on. I ended up homeless from 15 to 18 and then sort of you know, probably another milestone is on my 23rd birthday.

Matt Kratiuk: 10:27

I, you know, by then, by 18, I started becoming a drug dealer and you know doing all sorts of illegal things. I then started having money because I thought that, you know, doing that would naively make me safe by putting a roof over my head. But getting involved in that world did the opposite and my 23rd birthday, I had some people come in my apartment in the middle of the night. The long story is, I woke up in a hospital bed a week later with three titanium plates in my face and skull, a silicon implant to replace my eye socket and 150 stitches in my mouth, and I'd almost died. So that was a quite a traumatic event. It created post-traumatic stress for me, which which I didn't understand until many minutes later, and I became a sadly a dangerous, angry person based out of fear of something happening to me right. So that propelled me into that world further and further.

Matt Kratiuk: 11:17

By the time I was 28 or 29,. I was a gang member of a bikey gang, probably one of the biggest bikey gangs in Australia, and you know know my life had strayed so far from what I was destined to be as a young boy. You know, I'd pushed all my family out of my life, and probably one of the most pivotal moments of my life was when I was in that club I received a phone call from my mother, who I hadn't spoken to in many years, to tell me that my father had just been murdered. So my drug taking at that, that point, I was already an ice addict for 10 or 12 years. At that point my drug taking got so bad that I got kicked out of one of the biggest bikey gangs on the planet for taking too many drugs, which, may I add, I'm not trying to Skype, but hey that's pretty hard to do right so.

Speaker 1: 12:05

I gave it a real done, thank you, thank you you know I don't do anything half-assed.

Matt Kratiuk: 12:09

So I gave it a red hot crack and sadly I ended up living back in a park by the age of 32. And then, you know, that was the darkest moment of my life. I went to finish my life. I went to kill myself. Thankfully I failed. There was no one left and, you know, no one to help me out uh, no one to lend me 20 bucks. I was doing petty little street crime to put food in my stomach every three days. I was 60 kilos.

Matt Kratiuk: 12:30

I'm 90 now, um, and I was very sick and a very broken guy I was essentially I was a broken 15 year old boy living in a 32 year old man's body and, thankfully, by the skin of my teeth, I made it into this rehab program where my new life began. And I say it all the time I was, you know, I was relentlessly loved back to life in that program. I was there for 13 months and you know they helped to equip me with the skill set to then go on and begin and not get it right straight away, but begin a productive and purpose-filled life, and that's what happened. So that's the short version I appreciate I have to pass over to kirsty.

Matt Kratiuk: 13:13

Um, why I'm here today, in knowing that is obviously, you know, fairly obvious. But why, to your point? Why vinnies and why the ceo sleep out? Uh, for me I don't think there's a better organization in australia. Uh, nor is there a better moment in time being the actual ceo sleep at event that makes it such a tangible and measurable experience for influential leaders across australia. I don't think there's anything in the country that does it better. Uh, I've never had. I've never.

Matt Kratiuk: 13:44

You know, I've been a part of the CEO Sleepout now for seven or eight years, ambassador for five, but I've never been to an event where the networking is all awesome and it's great and we all have a good time and we've, you know, we've rallied hard and we've raised money and there's been great advocacy and there's been, you know, great social posts on LinkedIn.

Matt Kratiuk: 13:59

That's all awesome and everyone gets to meet new people. It's cool and we do a big song and dance at the event and we show lots of great stories and shows where the money goes. That's great. But there's a moment, at every CEO sleep out across the country, where, at 12 o'clock or 1 o'clock in the morning, when people finally lay on a piece of cardboard, there's not a leader on that floor, on that grass or concrete that doesn't look at the stars and go shit. Imagine if this was actually my life and I did not have a beautiful, warm bed and a loving partner and two beautiful children. Imagine if I actually had to get up tomorrow and do this again, like wow. That's why I work as hard as I do for the Vinny CEO Sleeper for that moment. Amazing, thank you, thank you.

Cherie Canning: 14:45

Thank you and I also want to acknowledge when you said about the anxiety and the PTSD. To retell your story is such a generous thing to do and thank you, thank you. Because I know that you have to go to some depths to get there. And thank you.

Matt Kratiuk: 15:01

Thanks, mate.

Cherie Canning: 15:01

Appreciate that, thanks. Thanks, kirstie.

Kirsty Rourke: 15:04

Your story's a little different, it is a little different, also wonderful, and I love Matt's story and just how it highlights the man that he's become and what he does. It's amazing, and it is amazing every time I hear it. Thank you. Yeah, thank you Make me cry Thanks.

Kirsty Rourke: 15:25

Yes, look, my story is um different. Um, I first, um I was a lawyer when I first started my career and um, we had the fortunate experience of being able to volunteer for the homeless persons legal clinic at bris Youth Service. So that's how I first kind of got my taste for trying to help people who were experiencing homelessness. It was really moving for someone who had never experienced homelessness to then sit down on the couch once a week with a young person who was going through a difficult period, who didn't have the capacity. It made me realise that they didn't have the capacity to think about their legal issues. You know you're thinking about where do I sleep tonight? Not that I've got this overdue Optus fine Optus bill or an overdue spur fine. All of these little tiny things that can start to snowball into something quite serious and homelessness. So that was my first experience.

Kirsty Rourke: 16:33

And then, probably about 10 years ago, I joined the Property and Assets Committee for YWCA Queensland that provides housing for people in Toowoomba and Townsville. I quickly joined their board and joined the why Australia board and they also had a big role in young women's leadership. So they were like my perfect organisation and perfect charity, combining young women's leadership and housing and Perfect Charity combining young women's leadership and housing. Now they're one of they might be the largest community housing provider that focuses on women in the nation, and I really loved being part of that organisation for the last eight and a half years. Then, you know, I've talked about Matt inviting me to do the Sleep Out last year, but when he invited me to be a brand ambassador, I had literally just left CBIC.

Kirsty Rourke: 17:29

And that imposter syndrome. I said no multiple times.

Speaker 1: 17:35

She tried.

Kirsty Rourke: 17:36

I don't have a job.

Andy Canning: 17:37

And failed.

Cherie Canning: 17:40

He is persistent. He is persistent.

Kirsty Rourke: 17:42

I said, I don't have a job.

Cherie Canning: 17:45

How can I?

Speaker 1: 17:45

do the CEO sleepout, let alone be a brand ambassador.

Kirsty Rourke: 17:50

And eventually he is persistent but encouraging. So eventually I thought well, it's not like I haven't been transparent, it's not like I'm hiding my employment status and making you know. I've been as blunt as I can be about my situation at the moment and um, but if he thinks I have something to offer, um, I'm willing to offer that and I'm willing to do what I can, um, and so that's why I'm sitting here today and may I just say hasn't it blossomed into something beautiful, Like honestly? I love it.

Matt Kratiuk: 18:24

It's just, you know, I'd actually forgotten about that experience until just then. It just reminded me. I'm sitting there closing my eyes, remembering it. And I forgot about it because, if you know Kirsty, like I do, and you've watched her over the last year and a half like it's just blossomed, hasn't it? It's just all fallen into, it's all tied in purposely in a way that is now your whole world, yeah uh, which before you didn't even know what you were doing exactly at that point in time I was thinking.

Kirsty Rourke: 18:53

You know, I knew I wanted to um, do a role with impact, but I didn't know what that looked like so I was thinking oh, I could get into energy and maybe remember yes, or? You know, I was talking to people in London about impact investing and I was really trying to be broad and then have landed in housing, in social and affordable housing. And then, you know, when I started talking to people about that, I started kind of putting my hand to my mouth and saying I'd like to do it for women.

Kirsty Rourke: 19:24

And you know, know, waiting for that judgment to go. Oh, you're an idiot, that's stupid, that's great. And then you know the few people I mentioned that to then said that's an awesome idea, yeah, that's really needed now, and so it gave me the confidence to own it. Um, but when I first started talking about it, I did not own it.

Matt Kratiuk: 19:44

That's the word. Own it. I've watched you, really proud of you. I've watched you, just particularly like the last eight months. You've just owned it and it's been really good to watch mate.

Cherie Canning: 19:54

Thank you. Such a beautiful lesson in that I think, maybe as women, as people, that if you didn't own it, how much the world would be missing, and like how important it is that, even when we don't feel like the imposter syndrome or the doubt or the uncertainty, the world needs it, needs it. So they're owning it, like it's such a wonderful thing to hear that because the world would not be as bright without it and without you doing it the work. So, yeah, it's incredible.

Andy Canning: 20:21

I love the um, the I want to say like flexibility of the purpose that was driving you as well. You know, it's like I think sometimes we kind of miss opportunities when it's so specific and so singular, but just by, you know, kind of encompassing. This is the problem I want to solve. This is what's happening, and then it was. You just weren't quite sure how everything would kind of feed in and then, and then it fed in and kind of led you down the track of where you are and that's the world's richer place for it.

Kirsty Rourke: 20:50

Yeah, it's a really exciting journey and, look, I still haven't solved exactly what it looks like. You know there's a number of different opportunities that I'm pursuing, but I love the freedom to pursue something and be able to pivot and manoeuvre, and I'm really clear on the goal. What I'm not clear is every single step that will get me there, but I know I take another step closer and then you meet someone different and they give you a different perspective and you go, oh, that actually makes it better. So, having that flexibility, you're continually making it better, rather than having a really rigid path that you know wouldn't be as good.

Andy Canning: 21:32

Yes, yeah, absolutely.

Cherie Canning: 21:35

I'd love for us to go and we will talk about the GOATs, the team and how people can support, maybe toward the end because I think like how many of us are sleeping out, et cetera but if we can go to homelessness at large and in particular here in Queensland. When we were discussing the conversation prior to tonight's podcast, I guess one of the questions I asked or we discussed was what do people need to know about homelessness? Because you made a reference, matt. Around you know people might think homelessness is your old mate, tony, or someone down on the corner, but there's more to it. Can you speak?

Matt Kratiuk: 22:14

to that without me butching it up, but yeah, look, there's obviously been a stigma around it for quite a while. What I'm very proud of is that we are changing that conversation and we're doing some really good work there. What I know we want to speak about the state's numbers and we'll do that shortly, but what makes it easier for me to articulate is thinking about my life and and sort of breaking it down and going okay, so how did that affect my life? And if you think of my story, I first became homeless unexpectedly at 15 to 18. That was only three years years, which doesn't sound like a long amount of time in the scheme of things, but that profoundly devastated the next two decades of my life, and not just my life but many other lives, and it cost our community millions of dollars. Like, honestly, I was a. I just consumed from our society, like that was, and I was just a broken boy, as I said, trying to, trying to figure out my way through the, through the world. You couldn't have said that to me back then because I probably would have, you know, slapped you silly but uh, but uh, you, you would have been right, not you, but um, but.

Matt Kratiuk: 23:17

But the point is we did a census uh, I think it was august and you know we were all locked down then. We were, you know, end of the world, covid back then, and we I'm pretty sure the numbers, the statistics, came out in 2023. And, from memory, they were about 122,500 Australians. People go oh, how did you measure homeless people while everyone's locked in the doors? Actually, the census actually did a pretty good job of doing that. They've got ways to report on that pretty well, but it was about 122 500 people. So the number came out in 2023. We use that same number in a lot of the content that goes out today because it's the only true data that we have, but I've I have heard of estimates of late that have us as high as 200 000 australians, right, uh, that's that they're some of the estimates.

Matt Kratiuk: 24:05

Now, at 122 500, from memory, I think there was about 18 000 or was either 14 or 18 000 that were children under the age of 12. Now, at 200 000, right, you, you do the math right. We're talking tens of thousands of kids under the age of 12. My, my thinking then is if that's the case, what on earth does their look like, their life look like for the next two decades if a kid that was had a great upbringing.

Matt Kratiuk: 24:34

By the way, I went to private school before my family fell apart, right, uh, I was. You know, I was pegged to be this amazing sports star, had a huge future ahead of me. Everyone told me what a great future I was going to have and I believed it right. And then suddenly I'm in a park at 15 thinking how did I get here? What happens to the lives of those kids for the next couple of decades? What does that cost our community? What does that look like? That's a horrible, horrible thought. You know there's enough. Queensland is now on the social housing register. In queensland, I think it's 43 000. That's enough queenslanders to fill the gabba. That's actually 3 000 more than you can fit that's an incredible visual, isn't it?

Cherie Canning: 25:13

how many people to fill the gabba?

Matt Kratiuk: 25:15

yeah, yeah, on the housing register right. So that's nuts. That's a real problem and cursing. Probably talk more to the the female stuff, because females are Because she's done more research than you.

Cherie Canning: 25:25

Yeah, she has.

Matt Kratiuk: 25:26

She's prepared. I'm off the cuff, yeah, yeah, no secrets here. But she'll talk to the females. But you know, women, aged women, are a huge percentage of that Long gone. And I'll finish on, this is the day where you know the homeless person is a middle-aged white guy on the streets. That's just not the reality. I know stories personally that are heartbreaking of mothers that have fled a domestic violence situation, finally mustered up the courage to walk out on some grub that's been treating her like garbage, taking the kids. Kids need to go to school. School. Sleeping out of a car can't tell anyone, because if she tells anyone they'll take the kids off her. So I kind of empathize, like I, I get that as a mom I mean I don't have children but but I can imagine what that would be like, right, like how?

Cherie Canning: 26:21

what would you do? You can't put yourself in that risk.

Matt Kratiuk: 26:23

No, and there's not enough, there's not enough facilities, uh, at the moment, that can house both the mother and the children. There's not enough drug rehabs that can house uh drug addicts with children. I mean this, this such a complex problem, but you might want to talk to the, to the female situation and the demographic that's yeah, the problem is huge.

Kirsty Rourke: 26:40

um, and even if, if we talk about locally in Brisbane, the Specialist Homelessness Service in Brisbane has over 100 families in motels tonight and that is over 250 children in motels, that's just crazy.

Matt Kratiuk: 26:55

And is that just in Brisbane?

Kirsty Rourke: 26:56

That's just in Brisbane, that's just one Specialist Homelessness Service, and the issue with that is when there's a concert in town, that means that all of those families have to dislocate um, relocate and dislocate out of that um wherever they were staying, because the cost of those motels skyrockets um. So if you were based in Brisbane and these motels aren't, aren't flash, these are not fit for. It also is way more expensive for the government to house these families in this accommodation, but that's where children are living at the moment. And I have looked at some of the numbers. So in those specialist homelessness services around the country, last financial year 270,000 people accessed them. Over 60% of those were women. But of the people that were turned away, over two-thirds were women.

Cherie Canning: 27:52

So, huge numbers of women and turned away because there literally isn't enough places for them to stay.

Kirsty Rourke: 27:59

Or they're being asked to relocate to, you know, particularly for domestic violence services. They're being asked to move quite some distance away, so they're taking themselves out of all of the infrastructure, their job, everything you're being asked to give up everything correct yeah, um, and so that's just not something that they're able or willing to do at that point in time.

Kirsty Rourke: 28:24

So your choice is just to put up with the bad circumstances that you're in um and there's and there and that's the domestic violence um situation. But also you're seeing the over 55s women. I think it was in the 2016 census they were the fastest growing cohort and they're not. A lot of those women aren't on the register because of the shame and the um perception about. They've worked their whole lives, they've got lower super um. Often it's through divorce, um, and financially they're just not in a position that they can continue to afford to pay the rent, but they don't see themselves as homeless. They don't want to consider themselves as homeless, and so there's fantastic organisations like Vinnie's who are able to provide those services and supports to help fill out the paperwork, get them on the register, get them houses, but we all know there just isn't enough at the moment.

Cherie Canning: 29:30

And so when we're thinking about the money raised, say with Vinnie's CEO Sleepout $140,000? Oh yeah, what's that get us?

Matt Kratiuk: 29:42

Have we just hit the magic number?

Cherie Canning: 29:43

It refreshed? I think it might have just happened.

Matt Kratiuk: 29:45

I'm just gonna pull my phone out for people as you refresh can you tell us I'm gonna refresh?

Matt Kratiuk: 29:50

yeah, you're not gonna believe this, did you? This is a stitch up, right, I swear, this is a stitch up. So we have just raised 140,016 dollars, which, which is so cool. Why I said that's a stitch up? Um, so, vinnie's queensland, we have a um, pretty ambitious goal, uh, over the. It's a five-year goal, so it started two years ago, so we're two years in to build 500 homes in five years. Uh, that's at home. My maths is right every 3.6 days, right? Uh, is that right?

Speaker 1: 30:24

right? I think so. Is that right? I'm not the mathematician.

Matt Kratiuk: 30:27

Something like that, which is pretty. It's a pretty audacious goal. We're on track which is awesome To build one of those homes. The equity stack that we need to do that is about $140,000. So for every $140,000 that we raise the Goats team this year, we will build one home for Vinnies, and literally I've been watching that all afternoon, as has Kirsty.

Cherie Canning: 30:49

Well, it is actually all of the beautiful people that are here because the money that everyone contributed to be at tonight's podcast. We banked before we. Amelia banked it before we turned the podcast on.

Matt Kratiuk: 31:00

Can we just take a moment, then, to thank this amazing audience for what they've done, for being here and for helping us to build our first home for Vinnie's Queensland? Well done.

Kirsty Rourke: 31:11

That's incredible.

Matt Kratiuk: 31:12

It is. Yeah, it's amazing. It's pretty cool. Only four to go, or something.

Cherie Canning: 31:17

Now we said we were going to go to the end of our questions. We still have a couple, but I'm just. I think the facilitator in me is like you've been sitting there too long without talking or moving or something. So I'm not going to ask you to stand and stretch and share with your neighbour, but I am going to ask you what questions does anyone have? Yes, please, I'm going to. We'll repeat the question, andy do you want to repeat the question for the pod, but please go ahead, yeah beautiful.

Andy Canning: 31:42

Well, thank you. Thank you for the question um.

Matt Kratiuk: 31:44

I'll hand it over I'm testing you on this I do.

Andy Canning: 31:49

I haven't had my medication today, so I'll I'll give that a nudge, but um, it was for kirsty. Got got that right. Yep, okay, great nailing it babe specifically around kind of like the focus, I guess, in terms of what you do on women in particular. Was there a particular event that sparked that, and what is it that makes you resonate and attach to the kinship of women so much?

Speaker 1: 32:13

Hey, that's pretty well done, I remember kinship.

Andy Canning: 32:17

I got kinship.

Matt Kratiuk: 32:18

That's pretty good. Yeah, I thought you were going to ask her what her favourite colour was. Great question, that is a great question.

Kirsty Rourke: 32:25

I don't know that there was a particular event.

Kirsty Rourke: 32:29

I have had that passion for a long time, and particularly joining YWCA and their focus on young women's leadership, and I think it's always been something I felt really strongly about gender equality and I think it's because of one of my core values is fairness, and it's always seemed so unfair that you know, joining a law firm and I know that's very privileged, but you know you've got all the male partners and all the female staff and just constantly so many reminders in your life about it being unfair.

Kirsty Rourke: 33:03

But I did do a workshop with a career coach last year where we went through my own personal values, like you would do for your company your personal values, mission statement, purpose and that's where we really distilled down, after going through my careers and the highs and lows and what motivated me, that my purpose was around making women's lives better. But at that time I really couldn't see how that could be a career or how I could work in that. And so you know my coach was super excited at the end of the day she was was buzzing and she's like, isn't that amazing that that, you know, you found your purpose and I was like, yeah, it's cool, you know great.

Kirsty Rourke: 33:51

You know and couldn't imagine what that could look like. I thought, oh, maybe I'll get another CEO role and I can just be a female CEO and you know, isn't that great of me to help women that way, and. But it's just been really fortuitous that it feels kind of like the stars have aligned with, um, you know, wanting to work with impact.

Kirsty Rourke: 34:12

A 20-year career in housing so sorry, not housing real estate and so then thinking, well, housing might be where I can achieve that impact. And then, well, actually, why don't you do that for women? Um, so yeah, yeah, don't have a great, you know amazing story behind it, but that's kind of how.

Andy Canning: 34:30

I think that's pretty great. I think it's great. Yeah, I think it's awesome.

Andy Canning: 34:33

That's like seeing the need, meeting the opportunity. And I love what you've said there about purpose. I guess I've probably been on my own journey with this as well, in terms of establishing purpose and how that relates to a nine till five. And you know, for the majority of people out there who maybe aren't as fortunate as like look at my wife sitting across from me, or Matt, or maybe plenty of other people in this room where there is that kind of attachment where you identify what your purpose is and you go through that experience, and you know, I know for me it's to have conversations like this is to hold space for others to find their truth, like that's absolutely my purpose. How often do I get to live that out in a nine till five? Like hardly ever, hardly ever. So you know, but there's, I think there's opportunity there and there's hope there. You know. For that and the fact that you've acted on that, you know, massive, massive kudos.

Matt Kratiuk: 35:29

Can I also say I agree with Andy. I just think when you talk about leadership with courage or lead with courage, I think part like that story is courageous, because I think it takes great emotional intelligence to do what Kirsty's done and to sort of go okay. So what are the parts of me that fit and what makes me feel good and how do I actually feel about this? And yeah, I could go take the squillions of dollars and, you know, take the new ceo role, but but does it actually? Is that actually going to float my boat? Like, is that going to move me? Am I going to be making enough of an impact on the world? That's courage. That you want to talk about courage. That's courage. I mean that happens, I hate to say, but every day people are too safe to feel uncomfortable, right, we get too caught up in the….

Cherie Canning: 36:09

The golden handcuffs.

Matt Kratiuk: 36:10

Yeah, you know we're too scared to jump off the cliff. That's real courage. And you know we can't. You know I don't need to tell you guys, you jumped off the cliff to start your amazing business, which is going great guns, you know. But there's that moment, right before I started my business, it was the same. I know I can do something great, but you know, like I'm scared, like what if it doesn't work right? That's a big part of being courageous.

Cherie Canning: 36:32

It certainly is. And what I hear in your story as well, kirsty, that I think is so important is the patience for it, like you didn't say you had the thing and so then the next day it's like you're waiting, okay, how's it going to work and what's it going to look like. And that patience, I think, is really important and courageous too.

Kirsty Rourke: 36:50

I'm not really a patient person, so that was challenging. That is challenging and I do, like you know, I do like a level of certainty.

Kirsty Rourke: 37:02

So, going from you know a fortnightly paycheck to not necessarily knowing where the next paycheck is going to come from has been really uncomfortable for me and there's been many times where I've thought is this really right? But it's amazing when I have those moments of is this right? You get this phone call from a mat who encourages you, or you have this amazing coffee with someone who offers you help and you just have all of these beautiful moments where you're encouraged and uplifted or another door opens and you go. Yeah, this is right and I love this and this is what I'm meant to be doing. So you know there's plenty of down moments, but um, but every time I've had them so far there's been um, a light.

Cherie Canning: 37:56

I can't stop smiling listening to you it's yeah, thank you, so beautiful. Thank you um beautiful audience.

Matt Kratiuk: 38:03

To have other questions, please come on at the back can I just firstly start by saying there is nothing mediocre about you. You are amazing, absolutely amazing. Um, and and I I I really want everyone here today to understand you know, one of the most important parts of what we're doing is the advocacy. If not, the most important part for me is advocacy. It is, if you look at you know I've been in my language. I've been kicking on the doors for seven years saying guys, this is a problem, we need to do something about this. No one was listening.

Matt Kratiuk: 38:44

I'm very proud and happy about the fact that finally, the last two years, there is some significant shift. The reason there is that significant shift and I'm very transparent is because the community are in uproar. They're saying this is a problem. And so when that happens, finally the politicians go okay, this is a problem. Right, that's how it works. It doesn't start with the politicians going oh listen, matt's been kicking on the door saying this is a problem, we should listen to Vinny. No, it happens when it affects the community and the community go hang on, this is a real problem, we need to do something about this. And then immediately it's a woke topic and all the politicians want to talk about it. I'm not upset about that. Great that we're talking about it, right, but that all comes from us, that comes from our community, that comes from you know turning up to a illuminate leadership event and you know throwing 35 bucks in that and then doing a post on linkedin saying you know, I went to this event and I think we can solve this thing, that that is the most important part about what we're doing. Um, I was saying that to you guys tonight. Like this is, this is so important. This part of what we're doing is the most important part. And I fundamentally believe what I told Kirsty the first time I met her that we can solve homelessness. I really believe that we can, and particularly for Brisbane. I mean, we are in the most exciting season of our city's life. You know we've got the entire planet looking at our city in less than 10 years the entire planet. That presents an amazing opportunity for us.

Matt Kratiuk: 40:12

But to do that we've got to put our egos to the side. We've got to all get along. We have to have a bipartisan government around this thing and say all right, listen, I like you, I don't like you, it's irrelevant. Like let's just all get in a room and solve it, it's not that hard. I mean, I don't think this is a fair story and this is when I start getting a little bit heated, as you can probably tell. I don't think it's a fair story. I don't think the government I don't want to pick on the government right at all, not at all.

Matt Kratiuk: 40:50

But in COVID, because at the time we didn't know anything about covid and we thought it was this crazy virus that was possibly going to wipe out the human race, and so we just scooped everyone up and put them in a hotel like that overnight. And you know, that's not, that's not a fair um picture to the government, because the variable there is that we had many empty assets that we don't normally have right because of the border closures. So you had large hotels that were struggling to pay wages and to make money and thankfully the government forked a lot of the bill. You know the Park Hotel, which is now the Vinnies Homeless Hostel. It's called the Park, the old hotel in Springwood. I think it's got 70-something rooms in there at the moment Hotel rooms, first time we've ever done anything like it.

Matt Kratiuk: 41:27

That was an outcome of COVID. That's because we, at the click of a finger, we solved the problem and we got all the homeless people off the streets and not all of them, but many of them and we put them into really dignified accommodation. No one's ever had a hotel room to themselves with a, with a bathroom. You know, before it used to be a little curtain and it was like a, you know, like a boarding house. It was horrible, right? Uh, then we didn't, just, we just didn't think that way like now, that's what we're doing. We're actually building buildings like that, right, um, you know the point of the story. I get a little sidetracked, but the point of your question for me is just doing what you're doing right now. That is the answer. I mean, we all need to start saying more often that this is a problem A and B. We believe we can solve it together. I read that's my last point, I promise.

Speaker 1: 42:16

No, you're good.

Matt Kratiuk: 42:17

I read. A friend of mine, who's a very well-respected lawyer in Brisbane, sent me a study a few weeks ago from the University of Queensland. Ironically right, uq's the best university in the Southern Hemisphere, is what I'm told. And whoever did this study? The professor did a study and it's all accessible. You guys can trace it down, but it's a study that was a data-backed study that proved and used America as the case study. But it proved that housing someone now is more cost efficient than not housing them. It is more cost efficient to us, to our community, to the wraparound services, to everyone involved. And I'm reading this thing going man, this is awesome. I was texting, you wasn't.

Matt Kratiuk: 43:00

I, kirsty, you've got to read this bloody thing. It's unbelievable and I'm telling all my mates. And then I got to the conclusion, right, and it said well, it didn't say there's one catch. It said the conclusion is this For this to work, we need a bipartisan government. That's it. In other words, we need people to agree. We just need to stop the red tape, rubbish, the political chess games. We need to get in a room and we need to solve it. And we can. We really can. If you look at places like Finland and you know some of these European countries, they are just all over it. But it is a complex problem, right, Because it's not just about, you know, it is not necessarily just about putting someone in a home. We at Vinny's fundamentally believe in the housing first model. We believe that.

Matt Kratiuk: 43:46

You know, my case is a perfect example. I was a guy living on the streets what we call dual diagnosis, so a drug addict and a mental health issue that was undiagnosed. I didn't know any of this, obviously, I was just a drug addict, right. They scooped me off the street. I was in a program for 13 months where I was like drip, torture, love, back to life, life, right, in the best way possible. Um, and that was a 13 month program. Now don't ask me why, but in queensland and new south wales the subsidy for those programs is three months.

Matt Kratiuk: 44:17

I've got a mate right now that he's going through a rehab in queensland which I think is the best rehab in Queensland, which is MUNIA, the Salvation Army rehab. He is on his fourth stint in that rehab in two years, right, and on each one of those stints he goes in we scoop him off the streets. He's an absolute wreck Heroin, ice, the whole kit and caboodle. He's on the cusp of death. Every time we pull favours to pull him into this place. Uh, you know, I, vinny, scooped him up and put him into their, uh, one of their homes for us for three months. Then we put him in the rehab for three months, had to pull all these favors to make it happen. He does great. We gave him a job at our company. He was the best sales guy I had on the team. He was doing going great guns and then, because he'd only been in rehab three months and out the door and then back into the world, he's destined for failure.

Matt Kratiuk: 45:10

You can't be a drug addict for two decades, go to rehab for three months and then start working 40 hours a week. It doesn't work that way. But somewhere along the line the government's changed the subsidy so these programs are now three-month programs. So we just get the same people going through the same program, clogging up the system, getting on a six-month waiting list and some of them are dying. They're dying on the waiting list because they're dying of drug overdoses.

Matt Kratiuk: 45:33

This is just one part of this problem. So to solve it, what we need to do is housing. First, we have to give people a safe place, like in my case, where finally they feel safe for the first time in a long time. Finally they let those walls down, in my case this big exterior wall.

Matt Kratiuk: 45:51

I didn't let anyone in know anything about my life. I thought I was a tough guy and all this rubbish. Finally, over time, I let that down and then the therapy and all this stuff begins to take place. That's, that's how we do it. That's how they're doing overseas, but doing it overseas. But their criminal system is different. They're built around rehabilitation and not punishment. We've probably got a bit of work to do here in that regard. All these little bits and pieces are part of the problem, but fundamentally, what we absolutely know is to solve any of these problems, we have to put that person in a safe environment first, and then we wrap around those particular services that are necessary, and every single case is very different. So we're going to do that. I know that I just waffled on it and completely, uh, waffled off the question. I do remember the question, but you, I hope I made that point clear at the first part amazing kirsty.

Cherie Canning: 46:45

would you add anything? Waffle off the question. I do remember the question, but I hope I made that point clear at the first part.

Kirsty Rourke: 46:48

Amazing Kirsty would you add anything on to the question about individually? The only thing I was thinking about individually was the value of small acts of kindness and how meaningful that is to buy a big issue, to pay for it at a coffee shop a cup of coffee. You know, small things that really can make an impact in someone's day, make someone smile. They're things that we all can do and I think you know I don't do it enough, but it's something that when I do do it it gives me a lot of joy. And I don't know, you just kind of have a skip in your step and you think, oh, I did something good today.

Matt Kratiuk: 47:41

Agree Great.

Cherie Canning: 47:43

Thank you. Thank you Any other questions?

Matt Kratiuk: 47:50

Do you want to repeat that?

Andy Canning: 47:51

Yeah, absolutely so. The question was around COVID, you know, largely fixed homelessness in terms of putting people in homes, and a concern for our panel as to whether the Olympics will have a, you know, create a greater issue of homelessness.

Matt Kratiuk: 48:08

I have a very profound concern around that and I'll tell you why. It's a great question and it's something that we really need to start thinking about now, otherwise we're going to mess it up, because if you think about the infrastructure and the way that we're going to design things around the 2032 olympics, we've got to get that right now if we want to solve homelessness. I will give a shout out to our lord me, adrian schriner. He has done a cracking job of late trying to advocate for us and and I like his, I like his, uh, his reaction to that it's like, listen, we'll just figure it out. Like, why can't we just make this happen and then figure the rest out? Right, because it's better than not doing anything at all and just having a coffee about the meeting, about the meeting, about the like. Let's just start doing it. And the feds obviously knocked it back and I'm gonna get started on that topic. But to your point about the olympics, I don't know if you know this. There's never been an olympic games. This is my understanding, that there's never been an olympic games to date. It has not increased homelessness as an outcome of the olympics.

Matt Kratiuk: 49:09

I heard a horrible story about uh, no offense to los angeles, if you're any la listeners out there uh, but the la olympics, which was ions ago. I heard a story that greyhound was one of the major sponsors and that prior to the olympics, they walked around uh the the city, uh, the la of la and gave every homeless person a one-way bus pass and said mate, knock yourselves out, go wherever you want, go on holiday right now. As as crazy as that sounds like, that sounds like just unfathomable to today's society. Kirsty rock then sent me an article from cnn a couple of weeks back and I realized that they're doing the exact same thing in paris right now, as we speak, and the article was about the fact that they are literally just sweeping homeless people off the streets and saying get out, we don't care where you go, right, just get away while the world's looking at us. That is horrible. That is so just. I don't even know what the word is. It's inhumane, inhumane, it's. It's like something from, like neanderthals or something like.

Matt Kratiuk: 50:15

It's just unfathomable to me that we could do that right, um, and, and it's happening right now, like as we speak, it's nuts, right. So you know, I think and this is the conversation that we started when we first met, I I use the word opportunity I. I believe that 2032 presents an amazing opportunity for us to show the world, uh, how much we care about our local community in that sense, and I think you can really judge the personality of of a community by the way they treat their most vulnerable, right. So we've got a real opportunity here for the whole world to be looking at us at 2032 and to be the first city that doesn't increase homelessness as an outcome of the olympics. Great question, something that everyone needs to start really thinking about right now.

Kirsty Rourke: 51:09

I agree that is a great question. The Housing Supply Council released its report this week and its projection is that affordability in Australia is going to get worse. So we've got a relatively short runway before the Olympics. So we've got a relatively short runway before the Olympics. We've got housing affordability that is getting worse and we've got all of the chips stacked against us. And so we need something.

Kirsty Rourke: 51:40

Like Matt said, we need that bipartisan support, we need that momentum, we need the community to say we don't want this um, because unless we all say it, um, the only way politicians care is if as matt also said, um is if the community come out and say that it's not okay. Um, so that's, I suppose, thinking about what individuals can do. Yeah, that is something we can all do. We can talk, we can say that this is not okay, we can get that message out there, because we need that, we need real intervention to ensure that we are not the next Paris, we're not the next LA, because that's not who we want to be. It is inhumane, it is awful, it's horrible. Just can't imagine. It's messed up. We want to be. It is inhumane, it is awful, it's horrible, just can't imagine just shipping someone. It's so messed up.

Kirsty Rourke: 52:31

What is that saying about how we value lives in?

Cherie Canning: 52:33

this country you do not matter.

Matt Kratiuk: 52:35

It's horrible man.

Kirsty Rourke: 52:36

That's what it says.

Matt Kratiuk: 52:37

It's so horrible. I don't know why I just thought of this at random, but do you remember Al Gore? And he brought that documentary out about global warming. I remember that was my first experience about like, wow, what is this? What is no, why is that really a thing? Now we all pay tax, we're all on board, we're all. Yeah, absolutely, it's a thing. We've got to fix it up, right. But I remember when that first happened, like everyone was like nah, man, that's, that's rubbish. It was like a conspiracy theory. And all this now, listen, we're well past that. Now we I'm sure we paid a few extra dollars every year, all of us, to help solve the problem.

Matt Kratiuk: 53:13

That's what we've got to get to, like it needs to be, you know, like and obviously became a problem for the community. It's a really good example, right. And then globally, it became a problem for politicians. And then for me, it's like at the same time, there is the leadership community, or like the private sector and commercial Australia. It's like a little triangle. You know, there's those three things it's our local community, it's the leadership community, it's the politics, and those three things have to. You know, I'm just a simpleton that came out of a park, but those three things have to work in unison for this to be solved, and I actually think Global Wellness is a really good example of that. Well, we're in the midst of it. We certainly haven't gotten there, but I feel like, from my view, it's a good example of how someone said, oh, this is a problem, and everyone's like, no, it's not a problem. And then, over time, everyone said no, no, this is a problem. And then finally people go said no, no, this is a problem.

Cherie Canning: 54:11

And then finally, people go. Actually, this is a problem. Now it's a real problem and everyone is being held accountable to it.

Matt Kratiuk: 54:13

I love that, yeah, and that every voice matters.

Cherie Canning: 54:14

I think in absolutely that advocacy um, you're speaking about that triangle just now and um, politics, community and, I guess, leadership and corporate and one of the questions that we wanted to ask you guys was around, if there was one thing from a corporate perspective and Mon asked a great question as individuals, but from a corporate perspective one thing that every workplace could do to help homelessness in Australia, what would your advice be?

Matt Kratiuk: 54:39

Oh, I wasn't ready for this one. You were or you weren't. No, I'm never ready, but that's right, I'll just kick it off.

Matt Kratiuk: 54:46

Always ready, matt. Look, I think there's a few things for businesses to do. I can talk to our business and say that I'm very proud of Tactic for what they've done. I'm the chief growth officer there, so growth sits obviously within my remit. We were only four years old. We've not grown at a rate less than 70% year-on-year growth since we started the business.

Matt Kratiuk: 55:11

So having a really good time that's exciting, it's fun, it's great. But as a fast-growth business, it's also our responsibility to make as much of an impact in our local community as we can. There's a few ways that we've done that. We've decided to partner with Vinnies. Obviously, we work in commercial real estate and office space, so when we'll go and do a 3,000, 5,000 square meter fit out, we'll take it out with new furniture or whatever. We'll donate all of that furniture to Vinnies for them to sell in their nearly 200 stores across Queensland. That's an important part for us. On top of that, we make it quite a sizeable donation to Vinnies every year. Outside of that, I think there's opportunities for businesses to partner with organisations like Vinnies. One thing that I don't think enough companies use is or even I don't think enough companies. Some of them are leading the charge but some of them still haven't gotten on board is what we're seeing is an increase now in volunteer days each year. I'm so up for that. I think that's such a great initiative from any business.

Cherie Canning: 56:16

We did ours at the Children's Hospital Foundation last year. I saw you there. Yeah, we did. But also Vinnie's is a great option too.

Matt Kratiuk: 56:23

No, no, no, listen. I think that's a really good point. I love, I love. Part of the reason I'm such a fan of Illuminate Leadership is that I've seen you do the great work that you guys do at the Children's Hospital. I'm a huge fan of the Children's Hospital Foundation. I think they do great work. You're also at Vinnie's.

Matt Kratiuk: 56:40

I think that's leadership with courage, right, you've got to make a statement and and give back to your local community. I think it's different for everyone, right, but I think I think there's plenty of options there. Uh, and I, you know, I think uh there's listen, I'm certainly uh not biased to vinnies either. I think there's so many great organizations in the space. I do a lot of work with the sallies, I do a lot of work with the Sallys, I do a lot of work with Vinnie's, obviously, particularly with Vinnie's. But yeah, there's plenty of options there for all businesses to give back, but it's different for everyone.

Cherie Canning: 57:12

Yeah, it is, and I think one it's about the contribution. The way I see it is the contribution. I know we're here at Place Estate Agents and they've got a big fundraiser coming up for the For woman, which then is connected to women over 50 55 experiencing homelessness. So it may obviously we're here tonight to talk about the vinnies ceo sleep out, but it is the contributing to any of those challenges, isn't it? And part of the be part of the solution, kirsty. What would you add, um, as far as businesses and how they can contribute?

Kirsty Rourke: 57:42

I think we can all change perceptions. Um, yeah, that's a good call. So when Matt was sharing his story, he talked about the perception of the community of who you were at that moment in time. Yeah, absolutely. And it's true. There is still sometimes a perception in terms of donations and who's worthy to be given to, who's not worthy to be given to. There is sexy charities, there's non-sexy charities, and homelessness hasn't Matt can attest it hasn't always been sexy.

Matt Kratiuk: 58:17

No, definitely not.

Kirsty Rourke: 58:19

And so we can educate ourselves, though, and we can educate our teams um, about what, what is going on, what's causing these issues, and work out where we fit um, and I think that's incumbent upon upon all of us. Um, we've all got unique skills, capabilities um, and can assist in different ways, and so if we educate ourselves about what the problem is, um talk about it, the more people that are talking about it again, um that that swell of advocacy changes things.

Matt Kratiuk: 58:55

I think it can create real momentum um, if we're educating ourselves and looking for things to do I just want a second, though I think that's such a good, powerful point Kirsty just made, I think, which I didn't pick up on. But I think leaders of businesses, the best thing they can do is educate their people. The best thing they can do is get someone to come in speak to their people, change the stigma, change the perceptions.

Cherie Canning: 59:23

And the leaders to educate themselves.

Matt Kratiuk: 59:25

Absolutely.

Cherie Canning: 59:26

This conversation for me and the prior conversation for me, it's an education for me too. So I think it's all of us educating ourselves.

Matt Kratiuk: 59:32

This might sound cliche. You guys would appreciate this more than anything, right, but if you can change the leadership or impact the leadership, you'll impact the country.

Speaker 1: 59:40

Yeah.

Matt Kratiuk: 59:40

You know. So if you can. And that's fundamentally what I'm so passionate about the GOATS team for, that's why I work as hard as I do on building the GOATS team. For me, it's about building a community of leaders that I really respect and adore but that others really respect and adore. I mean, we've got 100. I think we just cracked 100, by the way, I think we're at like 101, 102. With six weeks to go until the CEO sleepout, We've got 102 in our goats team.

Cherie Canning: 1:00:07

Greatest of all time team.

Matt Kratiuk: 1:00:08

The greatest of all time Sleepout team for lack of creative thinking, and it's weird that we call them goats, and so last year I think you had 64? 64 goats in the team, last year 64 goats and now over 100.

Matt Kratiuk: 1:00:23

There was a couple of us as mates last year, yeah, that we just thought we asked Vinny's how many, what was the biggest team? And someone said 52. We said, well, let's break that. And we were like, what's the most money raised? Someone said 250 grand. We said, well, let's break that. So we raised $310,000 last year. We had 64 GOATS members in the team, so we broke the Australian record. We now this will be the 19th year that CS Sleepout's run in Australia we are expecting to break at least half a million dollars.

Matt Kratiuk: 1:00:52

Well, we just hit 140 today Boom, you'll be yukty, yes, and we're hoping to have 110 to 120 senior leaders in the GOATS team.

Cherie Canning: 1:01:03

Incredible Pretty cool hey, incredible.

Matt Kratiuk: 1:01:05

I'm very proud and excited we're very proud to have you actually shit scared um, honestly like that moment you described before I'm I'm genuinely terrified about it you know it's. It's quite an emotional evening. Yeah, fair to say, um you you'll you'll hear some pretty powerful stories this year, but yeah, for me it's that last moment where all the noise stops and you're on a piece of cardboard. Coldest night of the year. It was raining. Last year it was raining. It was we all got wet, didn't we? We did yeah.

Cherie Canning: 1:01:36

Awesome. No, but that's what it's about. It is, that's what it's about. Yeah, amazing Guys. Do we have any other questions from the group Nadine?

Andy Canning: 1:01:47

I'll just repeat that question. So from Nadine, thank you. Just around, with all the, I guess, infrastructure and capability from the government right now sort of being sucked up through services to go towards the Olympics with a fairly hard deadline there, how do we, I guess, build capability or build infrastructure internally and you know, sort of on to what can we do, you know, today to kind of move that forward?

Kirsty Rourke: 1:02:15

You're 100% right. That is exactly A really beautiful articulation of the problem. And in Queensland it's worse than in some of the other states. I've just been involved with some projects for the Housing Australia Future Fund. And in Queensland it's worse than in some of the other states. I've just been involved with some projects for the Housing Australia Future Fund, seeing different community housing providers put submissions in and the housing in Queensland was a few hundred thousand dollars more expensive than equivalent housing in Victoria.

Kirsty Rourke: 1:02:40

For all those reasons you mentioned, you know, thinking positively need um to think innovatively. So there is a lot of work going into modular housing, um, and in different um construction methodology. We haven't shaken up the construction industry in decades, um, and so that work is happening. But there also probably needs to be, in my view, a bold decision, which will not be popular, but to not deliver some of that infrastructure or to delay some of that infrastructure, because you need to get the trades here to Queensland. You've got nowhere to house them to be able to build the housing. To Queensland, you've got nowhere to house them to be able to build the housing. So, whether that is temporary housing, whether it's modular for a period, but we need to increase the number of people here with skilled labour to be able to deliver it in the short term.

Kirsty Rourke: 1:03:39

There was also a number of challenges in, if you look at that, what's being funded will be funded by the Housing Australia Future Fund. They needed to be federally safety, have federal safety certification, which is basically you typically do government jobs, so it's just another level of audit and we just don't have. We have, you know, less than a handful of builders who have that certification who can build those houses in Queenslandland. Um, let's think differently about how do we ensure the safety is still there? But is there another mechanism to achieve the same outcome? Um, so we can get you know where, so we can get this supply underway fly underway.

Matt Kratiuk: 1:04:25

I agree 100%.

Cherie Canning: 1:04:26

Thank you, I'm really aware of the time, so are there any other questions? It's really rare for me to be aware of the time, please.

Andy Canning: 1:04:38

The question there was around the models are there models overseas that we can largely copy and have started to copy and emulate?

Matt Kratiuk: 1:04:46

here? Yeah, great question. The answer for me is yes, there are some. You know some of those countries over there. Their homelessness rates are coming down. They're going backwards right, once again it's. These are pretty revolutionary countries. They're quite advanced in their thinking. Culturally, they're quite different. You know, the way that they I mean the way they accept and treat all people as equals is like leaps and bounds above where we are at this point. Sadly, we're doing better than some places.

Matt Kratiuk: 1:05:22

Obviously but, um, you know, culturally they're very, very different. They're and they're. That's that's. I don't want it to sound doom and gloom, but it's it's. You know, in business we're all taught, uh, if, if I do my job right at tactic, my job's about roi, it's about return on investment. I've worked my ass off for the last decade to build a career in 10 years that most people have in 40, right and and I I've worked very hard and and I've been ingrained by the business world around me to think everything return on investment, return on investment, right, that's. That's just the world we play in.

Matt Kratiuk: 1:05:58

We can't think that way to solve issues like this. We can't, because the work I'm doing now I may not see the outcome of that. That needs, I need to be. I need to have enough substance every day. That that's okay, like, like, I'm prepared to work my ass off and be banging on the doors for the next 30, 40 years. God willing, I may not see the outcome of that, and that's that's. That's what we need to start thinking about. We really need to start thinking long term, not knee-jerk, quick solves. That's what we need to start thinking about. We really need to start thinking long term, not knee jerk quick solves. That's what I believe is different with those cultures over there, and I and I think, in the nicest way possible, there's a lot to be said around um the private sector and commercial australia to think outside of the box in that regard and think about legacy and real impact and legacy beyond your years. What is it? Because we're paying the price now for the things we've done many decades ago. Right, um we are.

Matt Kratiuk: 1:06:51

That's just the reality of it and we don't. We don't see that until now. I I don't want to get too off topic, but we're seeing a huge um youth crime issue right. That's in the news everywhere. It's a topic once again everyone wants to talk about. I don't know if it's necessarily bigger than it was, but, um, what I do think has happened, which other people aren't talking about, is ice came into australia in the year 2000 I know that because that's when I sadly became an ice addict or thereabouts and then when it first came into australia, it came in through the borders and then what happened is we started making it here and then it came through the borders and it's been a mixture of that ever since and, as much as you know, they're doing a great job on stopping a lot of that stuff at the borders.

Matt Kratiuk: 1:07:32

They're getting a fraction of what comes through right, and it is a horrible, nasty, nasty drug. It will completely remove all your emotions and you know you're living in a cloud. You can only see a foot ahead. There's no strategy planning forethought. I believe what's happened is that we've sadly seen the first wave of ice addicts, the first round of ice addicts, who then had, you know, addicted relationships, children they weren't planning on having. You know, fatherless kids, motherless kids, and we saw the first wave of that in about 2016, 2015, and it was this horrible wave of this horrible society killing drug. And now we're seeing another wave.

Matt Kratiuk: 1:08:17

Right, no one's talking about it, but I I know it because I've lived it. We're paying the price for decisions that we've made right and, I guess, long version to the answer of your question why they're doing it well over there, yes, they are, but it's because they've been very progressive and forward-thinking for decades. I mean we need to get on. The answer is I know it sounds cliche again we just need to all get along and solve it. We've got to put our egos for the sake of this issue. Egos can't matter. You've just got to stick your hat on the coat rack when you walk in and you can take your hat and put it back on when you walk out. That's fine. But for the sake of solving this issue, if we want to solve it, that's the way we need to think.

Kirsty Rourke: 1:09:03

Updating our legislative frameworks to facilitate innovative models. So, if you think about older women and some of the issues that they have, if you don't have, if you um, now we're talking about probably more affordable housing. But if you don't own a home by the time you're 45, um, maybe a little bit older you can't get the 30-year loan to pay it back, so you're almost out of owning a home at that point in time. But shared equity models, where you can own fractional interests in house, in houses the way we've set up our taxation system in australia really benefits owning your own home. So if you don't have on your own home, so if you don't own your own home when you retire, you're pretty stuffed because basically, you have to burn through all your cash to then be entitled to the pension, whereas if you owned a home, that's an asset, so it's not cash, so you don't have to burn through all your life savings.

Kirsty Rourke: 1:10:00

So just how we've set up our systems benefits home ownership. And so either we dismantle some of those systems, which you know is going to cause chaos, or we facilitate other avenues to enable that. And there are a few shared equity models, but they're pretty challenging. They're pretty challenging to get off the ground and to get investors the right return to own the other portion. And how do you do it in a safe way? But if we had the legislative frameworks that facilitated some of these different models? We need to try everything. One solution's not going to fix this.

Cherie Canning: 1:10:48

Amazing. Thank you To end our conversation. I don't really want to end it, but we've got to end it. But to end this conversation we've got a slightly different question. It's so new that, in fact, Andy might not even know. Yes, have you read the notes?

Andy Canning: 1:11:06

if it's not on the run sheet lastly, we want to try something new.

Cherie Canning: 1:11:13

Love it. So. I think the diary of a ceo does this on um steven bartlett's podcast and ask the guests to ask a question for the next guest to answer.

Cherie Canning: 1:11:23

So he also asks everyone before and after the podcast to like and subscribe, so we could do that too oh, you are such a natural I love that, and so, after people have liked and subscribed and shared this episode, what question would you have share for our next guest, which we won't tell you who that is, but if you could give us some questions, mainly because we don't know? All right, what's the question, matt?

Matt Kratiuk: 1:11:55

What do you want to be known for?

Cherie Canning: 1:11:57

Great question, thank you. Thank you, kirstie.

Kirsty Rourke: 1:12:01

My question is what is the best piece of advice you've ever received? That's a cracker Great.

Matt Kratiuk: 1:12:07

Am I allowed to ask Kirstie what?

Cherie Canning: 1:12:09

her best piece of advice is Come and be a Vinnie's CEO sleepout advocate, that's a good answer.

Matt Kratiuk: 1:12:15

I like it.

Cherie Canning: 1:12:17

Guys, I feel we could keep going, but for the sake of this conversation, now we're going to pull it to a close and I just want to sincerely thank both of you. I think the balance between your perspectives, your experiences, but the shared values, it's really something else. So thank you and thank you to our audience for being here.

Matt Kratiuk: 1:12:38

Thanks, guys, you guys are awesome.

Cherie Canning: 1:12:41

I hope you've had fun. I hope you're feeling inspired. Most important, well, equally importantly, but thank you, and thank you and Sheree.

Matt Kratiuk: 1:12:49

Andy, I know I speak on behalf of both of us. We just want to say thank you to both of you guys for your amazing leadership, for leading with courage. Quote unquote See what I did there. I noticed.

Cherie Canning: 1:13:01

I noticed.

Matt Kratiuk: 1:13:02

And thank you for joining the GOATS team. We're very honoured to have you sleeping on a piece of cardboard on June 20 in the freezing cold. Yep, yep, not trying to scare you off, no it's important work and just thank you to everyone in the audience today. This is. You know. You guys are a huge part of solving this problem by being here, so thank you.

Kirsty Rourke: 1:13:20

We're very grateful. Thank you, thank you all. Thank you Beautiful.

Cherie Canning: 1:13:29

Thanks for joining us on the Lead with Courage podcast. We illuminate leadership and it's our mission to inspire and grow the leaders of today to create a better tomorrow. We hope and trust that this episode has given you some insights and joy to empower you to live your biggest, best life. If you did enjoy the episode, we'd be so grateful for you to rate and share wherever you listen to this podcast. And until next time, go and lead with courage. Luminate Leadership is not a licensed mental health service or a substitute for professional mental health advice, treatment or assessment. Any conversation in this podcast is general in nature and if you're struggling, please see a healthcare professional or call Lifeline on 13 11 14.