Navigating Burnout and Embracing Intimacy with God: Part 2 of the 'Outside of Sunday' Podcast Interview

Special Episode!  This episode is part 2 of an interview that I did with 'Outside of Sunday' podcast, enjoy!

Strapped beneath the weight of burnout and pierced by the agony of miscarriages, my faith teetered on the brink of despair. Yet it was in that fragility I encountered a pivotal transformation, one that I'm eager to share with you. In our heartfelt discussion, we dig into the hard-hitting realizations about where our hope truly lies. Drawing from Sky Jethani's profound insights in 'With', we lean into the intimate relationship God yearns for with us—a bond that was solidified long before commandments were etched into stone. We probe the depths of our emotional turmoil, discovering how these feelings signal deeper spiritual needs, and how God's desire for closeness doesn't waver, even as we endure life's fiercest storms.

Our exploration doesn't stop at personal struggles; we also shine a light on the pervasive burnout haunting church ministry. The candid confessions of our shortcomings and the embracing of vulnerability become stepping stones toward recovery and authentic faith. With a nod to resources like 'Whispers of Grace' and Pete Scazzaro's 'Emotionally Healthy Podcast', we navigate the path to reordering priorities and rediscovering the stillness in God's presence. By examining the pressures that lead to overworked volunteers and leaders, we uncover the necessity for a ministry that stems from a place of spiritual abundance, stressing the importance of 'being' with Jesus over 'doing' for Jesus—a vital shift for cultivating a ministry that mirrors the heart of God. Join us for this soul-stirring journey, as we learn to walk 'with' Christ, together, every day.

Transcript

Christa: 0:00

Previously, on the Outside of Sunday podcast.

Julie: 0:02

I was so spent and so tired but I kept trying to do all the things so I eventually got to a point where I burnt out pretty bad and then I miscarried a second time. I was so pointedly angry at God and I don't think I could pinpoint that for a while I didn't realize that I was angry at him, but I was. I was like how could you let this happen? I had misplaced my hope and put it into a child instead of placing it into Christ. It's not put the pain away and look to Jesus and you're going to see the babies again and they're with him. It's not that this is terrible and it sucks and you know what. He knows that and he feels that with you and it's okay.

Christa: 0:40

Hey, you're listening to the Outside of Sunday podcast. Is your faith stuck on Sunday? Christianity was never meant to be constrained to a weekly church service.

Julie: 0:52

I'm Krista and I'm here to help and encourage you to live your faith outside of Sunday, and the way that he restored his relationship to me has been just so night and day from what it used to be.

Christa: 1:03

How so Can you just describe the difference?

Julie: 1:06

So I, I have, I have, I read a book called With by Sky Jethani, and it was one of many that God used to really impact my heart and change me. Um, but it talks about our relationship, that it needs to be with Christ, you know, not alongside him, not for him, not above him, not below him, but with him. That's how he created us, is fellowship intimate creations, and it's funny because in my podcast I've been studying through Mount Sinai and one thing that God has been showing me Great episodes.

Christa: 1:41

by the way, please check your podcast out, because it is amazing.

Julie: 1:44

One thing that the Lord has been showing me and studying for this is like when God came down in fire on the top of Mount Sinai and he brought Moses up to him. One of the first things that he said to Moses is remember how I saved you out of Egypt and I bore you on eagle's wings to bring you to myself. That's one of the first things that he says to Moses before he gives the commandments, before we can get in our head about all the things that we can and can't do, about what we should. It should be about, cause we love to hang on to all those rules. Right, it's like put it in a box so it feels tangible.

Christa: 2:17

Yeah.

Julie: 2:17

But before any of that, god came with his presence and he told Moses and Israel I want to be with you, like I bore you on Eagle's wings to myself. And that is the core and seed of our relationship and heart with Christ is that intimacy. That is why he saved them, because he cared for them so much and I was not engaging in that love.

Julie: 2:42

I just I wasn't setting enough time apart to be still, to be quiet, to put my phone away, to not have anybody else around, like to not have any distraction, and to really sit with him. And it was hard at first, the sitting with him, because it's like my mind flows with a thousand things to do, you know. So I learned, all right, I got to sit here with some paper because everything I'm like, oh shoot, I forgot this, like I had to write it down, and if you can put it on paper, then you can forget about it, then I can forget about it, otherwise it runs through that I do this.

Christa: 3:08

Oh my gosh.

Julie: 3:09

And like oh and like randomly.

Julie: 3:11

you'll think about something like oh, I need to look that up and it's like no, but that was part of of the Lord, allowing me to just like drain out all this stuff that is constantly in my brain, even the good things, and get myself to a place of quiet and it's like in then. Then, in those times is when the emotions tend to come for me, when I'm really like the to-do list is gone, I'm not worried about that, then it's like I'm kind of feeling anxious or I'm kind of feeling angry, and and then, through allowing those emotions to do their job, which is like an indicator light on your dashboard.

Christa: 3:56

Yep.

Julie: 3:57

Okay, what's wrong?

Christa: 3:58

in the engine. There's a problem here.

Julie: 4:00

There's a problem. So don't just shush the emotion away because you feel like it's not proper to have, but let's sit in it and let's realize why it's there. And God would just allow me to realize like, okay, I'm kind of anxious about this and that and why, and really to travel through all those questions and realize what was happening inside of my heart that I just didn't allow time to come out in the past because, I just rushed right past it and I think so many of us do that in society and in the world.

Julie: 4:27

It's just easy to and there's so much distraction, so retraining myself to be raw and emotional with God and to process it and then get to the point where it's like now I can actually see you because all of my stuff is out of the way. And hearing his voice and it was always, it's always so compassionate and and just loving and merciful, like that, like I bore you on eagle's wings and I'm bringing you to myself, I felt like that's what he's doing.

Christa: 4:53

How amazing is that?

Christa: 4:54

Like, honestly, it's just so amazing that God wants to be even with us.

Christa: 5:00

You know, like I feel, like it just blows my mind that the God of the universe, you know, he wants to be with us and he wants to be journeying with us through, like what you say, those hard times and those hard seasons.

Christa: 5:14

And I think it's not a small thing what you just said before about going through that hard time and going to it with, with Jesus, rather than just accepting and just saying, no, this is not how it's supposed to be, I'm not supposed to go through hard things, I am not supposed to suffer, I'm not supposed to have trials or tribulations, I'm not supposed to lose these babies. You know, and it's not a small thing, because I think everybody comes to that point where hey, grown up in the church, pastor's kid maybe, and life is great, and I mean there might have been some struggles, but you know you're following Jesus, you love the Lord, and then a trial or a massive loss or something happens and it's like we almost think we shouldn't have to deal with hard, hard things, and that's something I think a lot of people can come to, that point, get to that hard thing and then, oh, this is not what I signed up for, so see you later.

Christa: 6:14

Jesus, I'm out because you failed me almost and I think the church, christianity. I think we all need to come to realize that that theology is incorrect. You know like that's an incorrect view of the Christian life. And in this life we are going to suffer, we are going to have trials, but he promises like what you just said you know to be with us through that. Yeah, you know to be with us through that.

Julie: 6:44

Yeah, yeah, and I think that there's a lot of, even emotions that we feel as Christians, that we feel like are off limits. You know like, oh, if I'm feeling worried, like it's the Bible says to be anxious for nothing so like just put away my anxiety. Or if I'm feeling angry, if I'm feeling I feel like that's another big thing, that's telling you that there's something happening inside of you that you're not addressing. But we just kind of try and like cover it up or push it down or push it to the side or pray it away, which, I mean, it's not bad to pray about those things you should be in prayer if you're experiencing all those things but it's also really good to ask why they're there and not to feel like God is small, that you can't bring to him your worry or your doubt.

Julie: 7:24

Since when is God such a small God that we can't say like God, I feel like you failed me. Like, why is that something that we feel that we can't say it? Because I feel like, especially in the church, we want other people to think that we're, you know, doing well spiritually and that we're good moms and we're good wives.

Christa: 7:40

We're 10 out of 10.

Julie: 7:45

Yeah, we're like maybe we struggle but we pick ourselves up and that is absolutely part of the Christian walk is continuing to walk. But I think we love to do it with, like this plastic smile because, we're afraid of what people are going to say, we're afraid of judgment.

Julie: 7:56

We're just, we're so fearful, but God is not. He's not afraid. He's not afraid of our pain, he's not afraid of our doubt and he is big enough. He is big enough. I think I put him, I crammed him into this tiny space for far too long and god's like stop putting me in this little space, like I am big enough to answer all of your questions, I am big enough to walk through and I almost feel like if you are not saying to god like I'm worried about this or I feel like you've let me down in this way, he already knows that you feel that way.

Christa: 8:28

So you're literally like lying, yeah. You're literally lying to God. Just be honest. He knows you feel it anyway, but he wants to hear you talk and say it and be real with him. Um, and then he can meet you there.

Julie: 8:44

Absolutely. I mean, the word says confess your sins one to another that you might be healed, and I feel like the only sins we like to confess are like the really acceptable ones, you know. But we don't want to be like I am so full of lust today, you know, or whatever, Like we don't want to talk about the gritty things.

Julie: 8:59

My pride, guys, is like at a hundred right now yeah like I'm struggling with, and I just think the more honest and the more humble that we can be with one another in true honesty, people's walks with God would just be so different.

Christa: 9:12

I'm so passionate about that Like, and I'm so glad that you brought that up because I honestly, I agree, I'm like why do we not confess our sins to each other? Why can you not say to someone other, why can you not say to someone oh, um, I'm struggling with this and like I've been, I mean maybe not on the podcast, oh, actually I have on the podcast, like shared stuff that, um, no one else would really share, had in the past shared with me, and I'm like I don't care, I can say it because someone else might be going through the same thing. You know, they feel like I don't know how to get through that because no one else is experiencing that and I'm the only one and there's something wrong with me. But confess our sins to each other. We can talk to each other and just be real and be honest and not have to be fake, because I think it grosses me out, like when people are like fake, smiling, fake, everything. I'm like just be real, like can't you just be normal?

Julie: 10:02

like I've done it, and I have done it too. I've done it and I've done it. See, that's the thing.

Christa: 10:06

I'm like grossed out at myself.

Julie: 10:07

Of course.

Christa: 10:15

You're like I'm so gross today. I'm sorry I did that. I'm so sorry, yeah, anyway, okay, all right. Well, the topic of burnout. So what advice would you have for someone who is, say, like yourself, very passionate about the Lord, loves serving. That's where you find your joy, but you're also feeling like you might be in that place of burnout. What would you say to someone who's going through that?

Julie: 10:36

I would say the number one thing that you need to do is realize that that's where you are, because people that tend to burn out, like me, we're doers, we like to be busy. I think you need to recognize where you're at, and knowing the signs of burnout, I think, is really important, so I'll just list a few of them. If this is something that you're super curious about, I did an episode called Overload on my podcast Whispers of Grace. Maybe we could link it someplace.

Christa: 11:05

Yes, we'll link that, so please check that out.

Julie: 11:07

Sweet, but that's just a bit more. I'll just give you a few. So if you are starting to burn out, very often anxious about things, and maybe you don't even know why, but feeling a lot of anxiety, struggling with sleep, not sleeping well, or feeling rested, like I said, love, your love is kind of hollow, like you feel like you have no love to even give to your children or your husband. Just kind of feeling hollowed out. So I think recognizing oh my gosh, like maybe some of those things are me and there's many more things I have a few more um on my podcast but recognizing that I'm functioning this way on a very daily basis is really important. So you have to recognize where you're at first, and I think the next thing you do is you make space, you make a day.

Julie: 11:55

This is one of the things I did. I was like I need a day where I don't need any responsibilities, nothing's pressing on me, where I can just like figure out what is happening. And I just went into the woods because that's my happy place. Everybody's is different. Maybe you sit on a beach or someplace where there's not distraction and really make a list of all the things that are happening in your life and let God start to sort, okay, like here's what I'm doing at my church, here's what's happening at home, here's what's happening in my family, here's what's happening at school or at work or whatever, and kind of try and compile all of that.

Julie: 12:26

There's another really good resource if I could share. There's a pastor by the name of Pete Scazzaro. He does something called Emotionally Healthy Podcast and he also has books Emotionally Healthy Spirituality. But he has a bunch of tests on his materials that you can say, am I overworked, am I burned out? And you can just kind of like go right through and say like, is this me? He has amazing resources, but I found a bunch of things like that and realized, well, okay, I'm really burned out. You have to start cutting back and that's so hard to do, but you have to prioritize.

Julie: 13:01

You have to prioritize and realize like, if you're a wife, you're the only wife to your husband. He doesn't have another one. So if you're not being a good wife to him, then he's not going to have a replacement. If you have children, your children only have one mom. They don't have another mom. Those are priorities that you really can't escape. But if you're a pastor's wife or you're a ministry leader or you're many other things, even an employee, there can be another employee, there can be another counselor, there can be another teacher, there can be another worship leader. Many other people can fill those roles, but there's a certain roles that nobody else can fill. So I would encourage you, as you prioritize, think about the roles that nobody else will fill, yeah. So I would encourage you, as you prioritize, think about the roles that nobody else will fill unless it's you. Yeah, and not the ones that you fabricate in your mind, because I feel like, again, there's all you're like.

Christa: 13:52

I'm the only one that could do all these things, thinking that and I'm I'm thinking that is such a I don't think we mentioned this earlier when we're having a chat is there is a level of pride involved, like I'm so essential to this part of my church.

Christa: 14:06

I'm so essential to this ministry. If I go out of there, oh, it's going to fall apart or no one else can do it, and it's like who do I think I am? I am not Jesus. These people don't need me, they need the Lord, and it's not going to all fall apart.

Julie: 14:22

Yeah, we overestimate our own importance really easily. I find that I do, and I love how much god likes to like tap me on the shoulder and be like I got this whole thing, like this is mine and I'm doing it and yeah, I love you and I'll use you. But like, you're like, come on, yeah, like, oh, you know, it's kind of like when you see a little kid like that's trying to accomplish a task and you're like good job, you're so sweet that you think you're the only one that can build that block tower just the right way.

Julie: 14:49

You know, that's how I think God's looking at me. Sometimes I'm like don't you love my block tower?

Julie: 14:56

And he's like it's beautiful, yeah. But I think a lot of our pride does stand in the way and realize like God loves gaps. He loves when there's gaps because then he gets to fill them. And so often I don't like to leave any gaps. I don't want to think like, oh, there's not going to be anybody to teach the women, there's not going to be anyone to lead worship, there's not going to be anyone to do this Bible study, there's not going to be anyone to open this thing and run this event. Who's going to do the fundraising? Who's going to read to the children? You know a million things. We fill in that slot and we think like, if I don't do it, no one will. And a lot of times, like God grows things through, things crumbling, like God is a God that brings restoration, but you can't, he can't restore something that just won't be allowed to crumble. And sometimes we're the ones there with duct tape.

Julie: 15:44

That's like holding everything together and wondering why we're burnt out and stressed out. And God's like stop duct, taping something together that I just want to crumble. But we're like no, it can't fail, we can't have less ministries, we can't have less of this. And God's like, really, you don't think I'm like I'm big enough to handle that. Like maybe I want to birth a whole new thing and you just won't let it die already and you're exhausting everybody in this ministry because you just won't have the faith to let it die. Like but yeah, but who's going to eat if we don't feed these homeless? Who's going to? And God's like I've got this, yeah.

Christa: 16:19

Yeah, and it's like can you trust the Lord or are you trusting in yourself? Yeah, yeah, I'm the one. If you're enjoying this episode of the podcast, please make sure you like and subscribe. And I think I think part of that too is the expectation of modern church is like oh, we have to have like a 10 piece music team with like the best singers in the nation, you know like, and we have to have like all of these programs and it has to look perfect, because otherwise we're not giving god our best you know like yeah, yeah if we're christian, you know we have to be excellent and it's

Christa: 16:50

like. Well, if excellence comes at the price of people, don't be excellent. You know an acoustic guitarist leading worship. It's sometimes better than stressing out a whole group of people because you have an expectation of a standard that you think is bringing God glory, but then it's back, you're right back to the temple. You know all of these roles, all of these picture perfect things and it's like come on, jesus just wants your heart. Like you can worship without um. You know 20 people on the stage. You know you can worship. I know churches who they don't have a worship team at all and they worship with songs they play. You know, on the sound thing, you know, like I think we set the expectation, we want to maintain that expectation and it can unfortunately sometimes come at the price of people and that's not what we want to see yeah, I think so often we undo ourselves through mislaid expectations, mislaid expectations and really really good heart intent.

Julie: 18:01

But then, if you follow it through, you're like, oh, but my motives, like really are about pleasing man, or about looking a certain way, or about attracting visitors, or about keeping people tithing, or about whatever. And you're like, wow, how have we gotten so off base that we're keeping this ministry going, so this person stays in church and keeps giving us their tithe? But it's sad to say. But like, we've all gotten there. Like and again, this is what happens in our flesh. Like we take beautiful things that God gives us and we put our hands all over them and we corrupt them. And it just reminds me in the Old Testament, god said when you're creating altars, no one, no tool of man, is to touch this altar. They're supposed to be rocks that you stack together and you make a plain altar. And he specifically forbade the use of tools on the altar.

Julie: 18:48

And I think about that in ministry all the time and God has rebuked me with it so many times because I am like it's been me so many times where I'm like I do want to do things excellently and God wants it to be done excellently, but am I the one to do things excellently? And God wants it to be done excellently, but am I the one to do it? Is it even supposed to happen? You know, just because we have all these good intentions doesn't mean that all these things are supposed to lay out the way that we think, you know. So I think very often we bring burnout on ourself because we kind of set up this little kingdom and then we're the king or queen of it and we don't want to let it go.

Julie: 19:23

But we want this to go, and for good reasons. Like people are hearing about the gospel and oh, like these kids, they don't have any friends outside of church and or this person, this is where they get their meals on Wednesdays, or whatever. We see the people, we see the needs and we really feel like if I stopped doing this thing, the church would fall apart, like the kingdom of God would be less and it's so full of pride. Yeah, yeah, you have to like for sure, check your pride at the door If you're somebody that is tending toward overload and being burnt out.

Christa: 19:54

Yeah, yeah, this is such great advice for me right now. I'm like does this apply to me? With all of that in mind, how do you think the church could adjust the way that we do things to prevent these passionate people? Because that's what breaks my heart. It's so many passionate people who love the Lord, who love to serve. They get burnt out and then they fall away. How do you think we could maybe change things to make that less or not happen? I mean, I'm not. I don't think that you have the answer.

Christa: 20:25

Don't feel like I'm saying you have the answer. But just like, what are your thoughts around that?

Julie: 20:30

Yeah, no. I think, if anything, this is proving that we surely don't have all the answers, but I think from what I've experienced and what I've seen is the classic church model. It does tend to burn people out so quickly and so easily because our doing comes before our being and we really need to learn how to be like. What you do is absolutely important, but who you are is far more important.

Christa: 20:58

Yeah.

Julie: 20:58

And that is not stressed enough in our church leadership. Important and that is not stressed enough in our church leadership. I think it could definitely be the focus because, like I said, I was hollow with good intentions but I was a Pharisee walking around doing all the things in the name of God well-intended but I was hollow because I was not being with Jesus, I was not letting him fill me up, I wasn't coming bubbling over with love and joy and like, oh, God showed me this stuff. And or I mean, it's not always going to be bubbly and perfect either.

Julie: 21:28

Sometimes you serve and you're going through a hard time, but our doing absolutely has to come out of our being with Jesus and really, truly knowing that you're sitting in his presence, that you're being filled with him, that he is meeting you, that you are hearing his voice and fellowshipping with him. And if your service to him is not flowing out of him, then stay sitting, Sit until you're to the place where you are overflowing. That's when God can bring others to gather what is overflowing. But if you're not overflowing, then you shouldn't be serving. And I feel like we're afraid to say that, because how many servants?

Christa: 22:08

would we lose if we said that on Sunday at church? But I think how many servants should we lose? Because I think that is a thing as well is it's like, are we just filling these roles just with people, because we want the role filled Because it's expected, rather than it being the right person and someone who, like you say, is being filled and who loves the Lord and it's right with the Lord? Yeah, you know, I think that's so key.

Julie: 22:30

Yeah, yeah, I think healthy habits of work and rest is something else that we don't really have down. Great yeah, because for a lot of us, church, like I know for me, on a Sunday morning, I don't feel rested, like I'm getting four kids out of bed, I'm, I'm like trying to keep my house somewhat. You know, I'm feeding all the people, like they're fighting. I'm getting them to the place and trying to keep them quiet during worship, like, and then not to touch all the snacks after, like we're doing stuff and it's not like. Oh, I just feel like I'm. I have a sabbatical of rest.

Christa: 22:57

Like.

Julie: 22:57

Sunday's so like life-giving, like truly, if you're a mom out there like you're probably giggling because this is what it's like, this is what it is right. Mom life so it's not like Sunday doesn't tend to be this like great restful day automatically for us. But we don't take heaps of time to actually find true rest, because it's not such a habit in our churches to actually find real rejuvenating, God-given rest that then can birth the work. We just kind of keep going and we don't stop.

Christa: 23:27

Yeah. So would you say to someone, take a break from church, or would you say, find your rest another day of the week?

Julie: 23:34

Yeah, I wouldn't say take a break from church because as hard as it is to get there. And so I mean I'm, if I'm honest, I'm wondering some Sundays like why I'm even here. I'm out here with my kid half the time. I don't get to talk to anybody. By the time we get home, everybody's exhausted and cranky Like why do I do?

Christa: 23:49

this. I think every mom who's Christian has been through that and feels exactly that.

Julie: 24:04

Right, we've been there. So and and I've had to remind myself again back to like the word the word of God tells us not to forsake the gathering together of the brethren. So the word specifically tells us like keep gathering together with the people of God, because that's vital. So I would not say stop going to church, but I would say realize what gives you rest and seek that out so that God has a space to speak to you. You know, and I don't know, what that looks like in everybody's life. It's different for all of us. But I know that our work has to be birthed out of our time with Jesus and our rest and it can't be out of the frantic doing.

Christa: 24:30

Yes.

Julie: 24:31

List checking.

Christa: 24:32

Yes, and even like you know how God framed it, for you know, with the 10 commandments, sabbath rest, we don't follow that. You know, like we don't say okay, you can't lift something heavy on the sabbath or the rest day or anything like that.

Christa: 24:50

Um, and the reason for that is that jesus is now our rest. So if you're not finding that sunday is restful, or that you are having a rest on a sunday, and you are like and that's it becomes like about just keeping the word of God, eh, like, I'm going to be faithful to the word of God that says to not forsake the gathering of the believers.

Christa: 25:12

And I've, honestly, I've spent probably seven years feeling like I've, I was going to church but not in church because I was with babies. You know you're changing nappies, uh, you're out in the mother's room and you, you don't feel like you're going to church, but you keep going to church anyway. If you can find that rest time through the week, jesus is our rest, not necessarily that Sunday church. And I think adjusting that expectation yes, it's a good thing too, because yeah, I think I had that expectation of, yeah, I'm going to church, I'm going to get filled. This is where I'm going to be filled is in my sunday church. But actually, no, I, I get filled when I meet with jesus. I get filled when I spend time alone in the word. I get filled when I'm having worship by myself and just spending time with god.

Christa: 25:59

You know like that is our rest. Spending time with God. You know like that is our rest. And so, adjusting that expectation and getting outside of Sunday as corny as it is because it is the podcast, you know like that is where we can find that rest and, yeah, still be faithful to the word of God and what it says to do, but find the rest elsewhere absolutely anything you'd like to add to that, or?

Julie: 26:22

I think that's good.

Christa: 26:23

I mean, I could add on to that, but I think that's good, I feel like I could keep talking to you for like another hour and I'm just really enjoying our conversation and I could bring up other topics and like go off of a tangent, but we'll just stick to the program.

Christa: 26:40

So we're actually wrapping up now and thank you so much, honestly, everything that you've been talking about. I'm just like I have been blessed and so I know that the people who are listening and watching they will be blessed as well. But just thank you personally from me, honestly, it's just been such an encouragement and blessing, all the wisdom that you carry like, yeah, anyway, I'm just like, yay, yeah, so blessed. So thank you, um, but the last question that I always ask everyone who comes onto the podcast is how are you currently living your faith outside of Sunday?

Julie: 27:09

Hmm. So I think I reading that question, when you sent it to me, my first thought was like, oh, here's all the things I do, right, like here's the things that I do with my faith outside. But I think, honestly, going along with the theme of what we've spoken about, the most important thing that I do outside of Sunday is making time to be quiet and to be alone and to be with Jesus, because that is the source and the supply. So I will say, like the days that I find most valuable I don't have lots of them, or- lots of time.

Julie: 27:45

But when, like all, the children are occupied in kindy and school and whatever, I like to just go sit by the river and just have a complete quiet day with my journal and with like the books that I'm reading and my Bible, and I just sit with Jesus for the day and I usually fast on those days too, and I just journal whatever comes to my mind, whatever he's doing, and I really I sit in the books that I'm reading and it's just a really good meditation, contemplation day. That's my Sabbath, like that is my, that is my rest and that is very different than what my Sunday looks like, but that's really what is my supply for the whole week and that's my favorite day.

Christa: 28:26

Wow, I need to do that. That sounds amazing. Okay, that sounds great. Okay, great advice Find yourself a little river. Yes, get a journal. Get the Bible and just go spend some time with Jesus.

Julie: 28:40

I love it, all right.

Christa: 28:41

Well, thank you so much, Julie again, for coming on the podcast. Thanks everyone for watching. I hope you enjoyed this episode and we'll catch you next time. Congrats, you made it to the end of this episode of the Outside of Sunday podcast. Thanks for the support. Become an official outsider by liking and subscribing and leaving a five-star review. You can connect with me on Instagram or Facebook. Just search Outside of Sunday podcast and don't forget to let someone you