The making of Arc + Arlo

Follow Veronica here https://www.instagram.com/arcandarlo
Find her beautiful website here https://www.arcandarlo.com.au

Veronica, founder of Arc + Arlo, shares her journey from balancing a full-time job with starting a business to leaping into running her business full-time. She highlighted the importance of perseverance, strategic planning, and honest client communication. Veronica talks about investing in branding photography, leveraging community support, and learning through trial and error. Her insights inspire emerging designers to embrace growth and authenticity.

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Transcript

0:11

Welcome to Designing Success from Study to Studio. I'm your host, Rhiannon Lee, founder of the Oleander Finch Design Studio. I've lived the transformation from study to studio and then stripped it bare and wrote down the framework so you don't have to overthink it. In this podcast, you can expect real talk with industry friends, community, connection, and actionable tips to help you conquer whatever's holding you back. Now let's get designing your own success. Hey, Veronica. How are you? I'm good. Thanks for having me. How are you? I'm good. I'm excited for this interview. I was looking back the other day on, I have a full detailed, what is the podcast about? What kind of interviews am I going to create that I did when I was planning the podcast? And one of them, Is around emerging designers and a platform for designers who are probably under three to five years so that other designers coming through still studying can get other people's perspectives and not just what it was like for me to launch mine during COVID and create an e design business, because that is going to get boring quickly. It's not the same story for everybody. So I'm so glad to have you. Can you tell me a little bit about your business, Ark and Arlo and your business journey so far? Yeah, so I started Arcanarlo about two years ago. I started it while still working my, what I call my real job. So I was working that part time, working my business about one day a week. Basically for the first year, just focusing on getting a website set up and learning Instagram and creating content and just learning as I go. Then I hit my second year and got into the groove a little bit more and I think my content got a bit better and I started actually getting started. Some interest from clients. So I started getting some clients and which was really great and terrifying and all of those things, but things started falling into place and I was quite busy, still working my other job. So it was definitely, a, a. Seven or eight month period there where life was pretty hectic and I was working my business, early mornings before working at my other job and working lots of late nights and finally got to a point where my husband and I decided the business has probably gotten to, as big as it can get with the time that I have. So we've we made the decision this year for me to finally leave my other job and go full time in my business. So I'm now full time in my business for, I think it's been about five or six weeks. So it has been great. It's nice to finally be dedicating, the time that my business deserves. And, I'll try get the business. Really booming now and getting some sleep at last, cause it is hard when you burn the candle at both ends, you want to keep that security. You want to keep the job. It's a side hustle. Then it's more than a side hustle, but not enough to be a business. And then it's a very delicate balance and you also have a little one. So when I think about the last two years, how old is your daughter now? She's only little three. Yeah. Yeah. So that throws into it. For those who have been in that experience, that's another full time job. So it's a lot to be doing, juggling and that triangle at the same time when you had all three of those focuses. So it's really nice to hear that it's just the two now, which are. Two enough. A three year old and a business is enough. Yeah, I mean it was a really interesting experience to go through because it did show me how hard I can work if I really want to and you know how much I can get done in a very short amount of time but it's definitely not a sustainable way to work so it is nice to have a little bit more balance in my life. That's a really interesting perspective, isn't it? Just around look, if I have to, I can. And when we've got kids sometimes, you're building this designing your success and building this flexibility and freedom. And sometimes that feels really frustrating. Cause it's like last week I had banjo home. Seven days from school, he was so unwell and it's oh, you're gonna have to come into the framework Q and a call or you're gonna have to come over here and we're doing a thing and you try to reduce and flip things and work at night. And then it does make me reflect, I met up with friends for lunch yesterday and one of my friends said, oh, remember when the kids were in 3-year-old kinder and used to work till two in the morning on all the E designs and things? And I was like, oh yeah, I do. Now, I don't sleep for different reasons, but I definitely am grateful that's. Yeah, it's not sustainable for a long period of time. And it's something that I feel privileged to look back on and reflect that feels like growth and it feels like growth in the right way where I can not be awake at two in the morning doing move boards. And I guess that's the compromise you make, staying in a career while building a business, it's great because you have the, The income, the regular income still coming in and it takes a bit of pressure off the business, on the flip side, you're, when you do start getting clients, you're working incredibly hard to juggle all of those things at once. And sometimes you need to turn away jobs that you would really like to take just around timelines expectations. The level of job, sometimes it's too big for balancing a side hustle with a career and a child. If the job comes through I feel there are times where you have to turn down work occasionally just because of what's going on, which is not ideal when you're trying to run a business and get more clients. Yeah, that's probably a lesson I know now. I did not do that at the time and that probably was the problem. I was saying yes to every job. Sorry, too much. That's not uncommon just in general. I think in the first year, certainly the first year, any client is a client, which we celebrate, and I hear so many people out there being like, no, you've got to see red flags. You've got to turn down jobs. You've got to do this. And I agree. I think that's all well and good. To say that when you're three years plus as a designer, and that's where that lesson comes from. But I wouldn't know exactly what the ramifications of taking on that red flag were, unless I took it on and learned the lesson and got burned and realized how much I didn't want to work with that kind of client, which encourages me to say no to that kind of client in the future. So my perspective is quite different to other coaches. I think where I'm like, no. I can't teach you that you can't just read about it. I can't just write a lesson in the framework and say, this is how it's going to be really painful. If you say yes, you have to say yes, do the thing and really feel that no in your heart, so you don't do it again. Oh I honestly think, 50 percent of running a business is just trial and error and working out things as you go and working out the kind of clients that you do want and that you don't want and learning that sometimes the hard way. It's like touching the hot plate. You don't do it over and over, but you need to do it that first time. And also what I don't like to take on as a business owner is not the same. You and I actually have very different things that we like inside of the realm of interior design and things that you're working on that I work with you on. I'm like, I wouldn't want that. Yeah, I wouldn't want to do that. And vice versa, if your job was just daily showing up, doing what I do, it wouldn't light you up in the same way. So it's important that whilst you can follow the framework or you can follow all these things It's all about. Evolving the documents and evolving the pieces into your own flavor, so that it's actually your business you're running, not mine. Absolutely. And it's those things that set you apart from other designers that it's, what will attract clients to you as well. Yeah, you have a very specific aesthetic. You can notice it if you visit the website or go onto your socials and I will put links into the show notes, but how organically did that appear for you? Was that contrived in terms of, was that a decision to gap in the market, went for it, decided to stick with that sort of neutral aesthetic, or was that definitely just what you're into and what you're drawn to, and then it all falls, Yeah, I think it's really almost, yeah, like it comes from a selfish place almost because it is, it's what I like. I think starting my business, obviously you don't have clients at the start. So you're creating a lot of hypothetical content and hypothetical interiors. And I really just went in with. The view, what would I design if I was designing for me? Or what would I design if I was given, free reign. And so I just started putting together things that felt really good to me. And that's pretty much now what I just create, what do I love? And yeah that's what I'm putting out into the world and hoping to then attract and, attract clients that also. Love that too. And so I can keep doing, the interiors that I love. I absolutely love that. When I started, obviously it was pre AI and all of those things, but I used to sit there and think, okay, what if I got a phone call? Clearly this is me in dreamland. And they were like, oh my God, we have to put Vogue Living to print in three days time, but we don't have a front cover. We don't have time to purchase and procure all of the furniture. So it's going to have to be an e design. What would you do? Show your best work. And I'd give myself those little challenges. It's almost like a game at the beginning. Cause it wasn't working with clients, but now for anyone listening, I actually think you could get a really great brief using AI. I also have to be creative to create the design. So creating the brief, sometimes you do get stuck like thinking about, is this one going to showcase family friendly storage options? Or what are we going to talk about in the caption? But I feel like you've got so much opportunity now to go into AI and say, I need a client brief. I want to incorporate this one piece. And so talk to me about the rest of it and then get excited about the like random generated brief instead of always thinking about your own brief. I've run out of ideas. But that is really nice to hear that someone else did the same thing, like making that dream work attracts those dream clients. And so you can't do it any better than that. That is the greatest way to find a niche. And I think when I first started I was trying to do lots of different looks and I can't remember where I heard it from. I honestly, it could have even been you that I came across and you had at one point said something about it, but early on I heard, that you don't like, you don't need to be everything to everyone. And in fact, like you're doing almost a bit of a disservice if you're trying to be everything to everyone. And I think, that's that actually, sunk in a bit. And I realized, oh my gosh, I don't need to be, making really, hot pink interiors or, trying to please or create content for a client that I wouldn't want anyway. I think if you scroll back to, some of my very early Instagram posts, there are definitely some things in there that probably don't feel like me necessarily, you've definitely all got to work it out too, I think, and get through that, because, when we look at niching down, sometimes, people go, my niche is interior design. It's not quite. And also I think it's important if I land on your page, if I go to Arc and Arlo, I can either see myself in your work or not see myself in your work as your potential client. And I think that speaks volumes, because that is really where we want to be getting all designers so that. Cause everybody's aesthetic is so different. You can land on the page. It goes this for me or not for me. And that's the same of a lot like social media in general, your page should be. Able to be communicated on arrival, who you are, who you're for, and what you do. And I think yours does that really well. Well done. And it does, and it comes from that place of going, oh, I better not just show people that I can do stuff with chandeliers and blown glass. And when it's maybe not your aesthetic. Looking back, what was the most crucial initial investment, like software, marketing, coaching that you made for your business? And how hard do you find investing in pieces for your business in general? Oh, I actually don't have a problem with investing in my business. I've always been yeah, really happy to, I don't know, drop a bit of cash. Probably, I think probably the biggest game changer for me in my business. Initially was getting some branding photography. That was such a game changer for me because I felt like I finally had some imagery that looked professional. Like I looked like the part rather than. Just my iPhone photos, as good as they, can be and as useful as they are getting some proper photography to put on my website to start using on my socials. I think, if nothing else, it just made me feel a little bit more legit. Yeah. It's you can see a designer when you look at that. And even if you are suffering imposter syndrome or you're faking it to your making it, you're like, okay, but my business cards look like I've made it. So that's fine. Like it's she can carry some of the weight of that fear. And I can step back a little bit. Cause I've seen the suite of like gallery images that I have. And I know that, anyone coming across me, isn't just finding the, what I posted yesterday or what I took a quick snap in the office or whatnot. Yeah otherwise probably then joining a, a mentorship program. For me, probably the biggest part or the biggest benefit has been having a community around me. I feel definitely for the first couple of years in my business, trying to work things out alone. It's, it was fine. I was taking my time, running a business by yourself is lonely and if you don't have someone to ask questions of that. You can Google, that's fine. You can look up YouTube, actually having another human being that's, in the interior design industry that is, also starting a business or, has been there before, it's really nice to just bounce ideas off someone else. And so probably one of the biggest investments has been being part of the framework. It's that community element for me in particular that has been so valuable to chat to other designers that are maybe a little bit ahead of me. That can offer me advice for where I'm at, but also to have designers that are a little bit behind where I am, that is maybe just freshly starting for me to offer them advice, I find that really really rewarding that you can get advice and give advice and it's, yeah, it's just a nice, it's a nice community. So it is obviously an investment in the business because, You pay to be part of the group, but it has been so valuable just for feeling like you're not alone. And I like having a weekly date in my diary that does keep me accountable. Even me who's running that thing. I'm like, if I said something last week, I was going to share an article or find a resource or do a thing. Thursday rolls back around and I'm like, Oh, she's going to ask me about this. I've got to get it done. Or it does start to make you feel a little bit like if you say something and we're sharing on a topic that next week, when you show up, I don't know, it's like something in your diary, that's a reoccurring reality tech accountability connection community, like I'm checking back in so that you do feel like, Oh, maybe I've been busy this week. I haven't been able to be in the group chat all the time, but if I keep it in my diary and it keeps showing up, it keeps. feeding me the things that I need in terms of connection. Or certainly how I feel as well as just being there is if on the school holidays, when I don't dial in or whatever, I'm really like, Oh, I missed you guys after two weeks of just coming back. It's nice. And I've found probably the surprising thing about, being in the framework is I thought I, coming in, I've, I think I came in, I had, a good, I think, year of business under my belt, but, and so I, I thought I would, know most of all the basic stuff, but it's one of those things is you don't know what you don't know. And until you're, hearing other people talk about specific things and you think, God, I'd never, I never even knew that existed or I'd never heard of that. All these little sort of other aspects of business. Which I've learned from other people has been, yeah, super helpful. It's interesting, isn't it? Because we all, those of us who don't do a group mentorship program, and I am one of them, I did, and at the beginning, and it's you all go off and you are working in a lonely environment, and you're doing it the way that you Googled or YouTubed or did the thing. So you're like, Oh I got it done. Without any idea that someone else is like, Oh, don't do that. Like it's really quick if you just do this or don't spend three days mucking around, have mine. Here's the template. Like just put your logo on it. Change a few words, make it sound more like you, work it through, chat to your team if you need to, and then pull it back and put all the personality into it. And then something like taking that and doing that could take you 40 minutes rather than four days to create it from scratch. And I wrote the framework and I learned things definitely in every call where someone's Oh, I was listening to this podcast the other day. And one of the podcast hosts mentioned this software and I'd never heard of it. And that's like the collective power of learning that you are actually, it's not a, I don't stand up the front with a whiteboard and it's everybody listened to me and do it my way. Definitely not. It's more of a, I facilitate the learning that's across and everybody brings so much experience as girls. Inside the framework with 20 years experience. It's much more than me. I'm like sometimes questions come up. I'm like, don't ask me, ask Sarah. Like she's definitely going to be your go to. In terms of determining your design fees, where I'm always talking, pricing is probably one of the top three things that people in All levels of their design business come to me to work through either in private coaching or they're like, Oh does this look right? Is this right? Everybody worries about it. How did you determine your own design phase when you were starting out and get comfortable with what you're charging? Talk to me a bit about the pricing process. Oh my gosh. I know now I think one of the reasons why I got so busy was I was definitely not charging what I should have been charging. I have learnt about pricing the hard way which is fine because, At the time I was happy to have work. It kept me incredibly busy. I got a bunch of projects all at once, which is great experience. But, when I look back on the hours that I worked on those jobs compared to what I was charging I do want to have a little bit of a cry, but it has really helped me now to really, actually work out, how much I need to charge, it has helped me to charge my worth. And I think coming back to that, you don't have to be everything to everyone you can't be the designer to everyone. Some people, will have an expectation of it being a certain price. That's just unrealistic. And that's okay, it'll, I'll just keep. Finding the clients that are, my ideal clients and that value, the time that goes into it and the care that goes into it. It's interesting because you talk about, I won't say doing it the wrong way at the beginning, but maybe, completely undervaluing yourself. Another benefit to coming out the other side of that is that you can present your scope of work and fee proposals with real confidence, knowing how many hours it is going to take to fulfill that. It means that you are, you present and then not that we ever justify our fees, but you have an explanation that's really clear to a paying client. I feel at the very beginning. You're Oh, it's that because I said, it's that you don't really know why it really is actually about overcoming your own, money blocks or, your own money mentality, because I think at the start I was charging. So below what I should have been, because I thought to me, that looks like a lot of money. So I can't, I No one will pay that much money. First time I sent out a proposal and actually charged probably what I should charge and the client didn't even bat an eyelid, they came back, they paid the deposit and it was, it was not, it was a non issue and I was like, oh, okay, just because I think it looks like a lot of money doesn't mean that is the case for other people. So yeah, it, cause it's exactly right. And I say this all the time inside the coaching calls as well around, we've had full sessions just about what would you pay for an interior designer? And everybody climbs up because they're like I wouldn't pay for one or I don't value one or because you can do that with your eyes literally, you can visualize when you close your eyes. For us, we're like, oh, that's an outrageous amount of money just to pick some colors. I find that easy. And so it's. Stepping away from that and actually letting go of that idea, because what would you pay for somebody to fix the carburetor in your car? Probably a lot more because you're like I couldn't do that. But the mechanic who's doing that can and therefore it's looking at it in a different way. And it's a great point to. I have two messages right now in our private chat in Slack from designers with scope of work and fee proposals saying, Oh my God, this is coming to 42, 000. No one will pay that. And I am going to go back to them today and say, they absolutely will. In fact, I would like to rework this because I think you're leaving about 10 K on the table for the size of this commercial job. It's interesting, isn't it? It really is a lesson you have to. You don't have to learn. Hopefully you don't have to learn. Hopefully you can just listen to this podcast and go, do you know what they said? I could just add another zero and it'll probably be fine. So let's try it. Learn from my mistakes. That's definitely a huge part of what the framework is. I don't know if that should be the tagline, do as I say, not as I did, the reason it exists is because I want there to be a fast pass or a way past the staff that I look back now and I can't get that time back. Like I don't regret any of it, but like I said, I had a six week old baby when I started and when we're in COVID, I had a two and a half year old and a six month old and the really little kids and, working till 2am to make a mood board that I was charging 45 for is outrageous when I could have been having a snuggle like, I'm like, Oh no, I don't have regrets because it absolutely did create everything that I've had since. But I do think that there are ways where. I wish there was something that I could have paid for. And because while you're doing that work, you were also creating templates and doc, or not templates, just documents for each individual person in my case. And so it's all about just trying to do things in a smarter way and take someone else's stuff that they've already, touched the hot plate repeatedly. They can say to you, Hey, this is what it feels like. Let me tell you all about it. And don't burn your fingertips. Yeah. Yeah. I want to hear from you and I don't actually know the answer to this, but I want you to spill it and tell me how important really has your design portfolio been in attracting clients. Ah, as in like completed photographs, just everything at the very beginning that you're like, I need a portfolio. I don't have enough before and afters. I don't have enough portfolio. How instrumental is that one word, the portfolio being in actually converting clients into your business? To be honest, not at all. I have found that because often, in a discovery call, that question will come up. A client will say, do you have examples of your work that you can show me? And gosh, at the start, of course, you don't even now, two years into my business, I am still waiting on some of these original projects to be completed so I can take some photographs. So even still, I don't have a catalogue of completed projects yet. And. When it comes up I have always just been completely honest and said, look I have been doing this for a little while now, but unfortunately, completing projects and getting them to a stage where they can be photographed professionally, it takes time. And I don't have any projects that are at that stage yet. I have always offered to send examples of and I have actually not found that has stopped me from getting work. I've those clients that have asked me that question have still then gone ahead with my services. So I don't know if it's just I don't know, being honest or I don't know. Maybe they just felt comfortable enough with having chatted to me that. They were happy to go ahead anyway, but yeah it has interestingly not held me back at all. I just wanted to hear you say that. I didn't know what you were going to say, but I assumed that was the truth because I feel like I just hear so much and I'm in lots Groups and chats from studying designers and people starting businesses. Obviously this is the people that I'm helping and talking to all the time. And this one little thing, this elusive portfolio seems to be holding, there are two things actually, in the beginning, I can't do X until my website goes live and I can't take on clients without a bursting portfolio and I. I don't have a portfolio. I never made a portfolio. I just actually went that's not important. Like I'd rather get working. So I still don't have one on my website. Yeah, I, yeah, I don't know. Client clients will ask, but I've just always been really honest about it. Yeah. And I will also caveat that to say it has been much easier for me because if clients say to me, can I see an example of your work? It is an e design and that doesn't, they don't actually expect to see it before and afters. And I've been so grateful to have so many before and afters. It's just something that, you don't always see an e design. Just to be fair, my portfolio probably was never going to happen in terms of it was, you just need to look at the design if you want to see what you're going to get, because you execute and I don't see it all the way through. But I do think people get stuck a little bit on the website and the portfolio and not making forward steps whilst they're waiting for that to happen. Did think that it would hold me back. But it hasn't, I think, creating some good, quality, helpful content on social media showing up and, actually putting your face on there, whether it just be, even if it's just, one of your branding picks I don't know writing some blogs, I think just those. Those things that probably helped, give me enough credibility that I know what I'm talking about. They show you have education, peace opinions that you are in the industry enough, I'm a real human. And yeah. And I love the approach as well. I'm very big on. And it has always worked well for me around that honesty piece. If I have an alignment call and someone's not right for the framework, I'm like, look, I'm really sorry. And here's the reasons I think it won't work for you. I don't want to see you waste your money because I can see that this, and this. And I also feel like I will say to clients, Oh, that's a great question. Do you know what? I don't think that's ever come up for me. Let's park it. I'll research it for both of us. And I didn't know the answer, but instead of just going, Oh my gosh, they're going to hate me because I don't know the answer. It's really nice. Yeah. If they see a bit of vulnerability and they see that honesty, then they're going to trust you in other parts of the process and other parts of the project, because you haven't just tried to fake your way. That is what they're actually looking to vet on that discovery call is people who are all smoke and mirrors and talk a lot of nonsense and then get in there and don't know what they're doing. And they're paying your high design fees and you're like trashing their house. That's all they're trying to work out. Yeah. You're not going to do. So the honesty piece is really important with clients in general. And I am a terrible liar if I even tried to, come across that I knew something that I didn't, I, it would show on my face, it would, you would hear it in my voice. So for me, it is just better to be totally honest if there's something, I don't have, or I don't know. Yeah. It's for me, it's just much safer. And it moves you towards that report quicker because people always going to trust someone more who's come out and said, I am working on some stuff. It hasn't been photographed yet. This is how long a general project takes. You tell me your two years into business and you don't have photos. That's not two minutes. It's not two weeks. And, even I, to the point where I'm pretty sure I celebrated on social media and with my first client being like, you're my first client. I'm just so excited. I think I was just like, And it was something so silly, I honestly think that this is when I still worked, and it was a side hustle, and it was a Cushion consultation. Like literally, I reckon I spent 25 hours choosing this one girl in purse cushions. Oh, and like the budget what would she possibly have been spending about 250? And she probably paid me 30. I don't know. I can't remember, but I do remember how Seriously, the documents went out for this cushion plan and how much I like really enjoyed that first job. But you got to celebrate those little, early wins. I think when I got my first client that that was someone that I didn't know and I didn't get them through someone I knew. Oh gosh, it was such a nice feeling. I think my husband brought a bottle of champagne, it was such a small job. It was, I think we picked a couple of tiles and a paint color, but you've got to celebrate those little wins. They're, they're all the, really important, exciting parts of having a business and you've got to stop and appreciate them. Yeah, I totally agree. And I think it's something that we all need to work a little bit harder on. Cause you get stuck in that, like just heavy middle sometimes and you work work, and you're trying to create this and you're trying to evolve this and get better at this. And, oh, I just learned about automations and funnels. So I'm going to go over and do this and all that business side, as well as the client work. Do you have your date of register, registering your business in your diary as a day to celebrate yearly as the business becoming another year older? Do you go out for dinner to celebrate that when you finally register for GST? Are you having a party? What do the actual wins look like in your business? Cause. Far too often. They're just like another Tuesday and then back to YouTubing funnels and learning things. Today's podcast episode is proudly brought to you by Purefloor. Purefloor is a cleaning solution that I use in my own home. I have a white rug, a white sofa, three boys, a dog, a cat, and a husband. I definitely need this in my life. And because it's all natural, it's soap and chlorine free. It's a hundred percent a plant based formula, and 000 square meters of surface. Cozzy lives, am I right? It's gone a long way and it's been a total game changer for us at home. So thank you Purefloor for sponsoring Designing Success. What key piece of advice would you give design students who are considering starting their own business or what piece of advice really helped you the most? Probably the advice that I would give to someone considering starting their own business is I think probably realizing that the interior design work is really actually only going to be, maybe 50 percent of the job you're doing day to day. I think maybe something that people don't realize. is how much work goes into the other parts of running a business. The, the marketing side, the content creation side, the, accounts and the financial side learning and keeping up to date with, things to do with business, but also things to do with interior design. The interior design side of things. actually is, yeah, probably only, half of my time when I'm working on projects. I would say to someone that's thinking of starting a business is that something that you're comfortable doing? Are you happy to be posting on social media and creating lots of content and, otherwise, if all you want to do is interior design I don't know, maybe running a business is, something you need to think about. I had a conversation the other day around somebody was low key complaining about the lack of business knowledge inside of their interior design course. And no matter where you study design, the fact of the matter is you're there to study design. And business is a totally different thing. And again, the framework exists to bridge the gap between what you learn in design school is fantastic. That's what makes you the designer. But then if you want to start a business, you need business skills, you need marketing skills, you need client acquisition strategy. Like you need to know how to bring in clients and what to do with them when they get there and then what to deliver them and none of that stuff is actually the responsibility of your design school to teach you. Cause you're not at business school, you're at design school. So you're there to learn. How to facilitate the job, the transformation that the client requires from you, but in order to get the client and service the client and do the thing, you need the business skills. And I think you are so spot on when it comes to the observation that. Actually, a lot of people are not in it for that. And it's one frustration that I see. And I say frustration because I want to help support all these people into it, but then they go and get their degree and do nothing with it. Because the idea of overcoming that imposter syndrome and being one of the brave percentage that actually puts themselves out there, like every single time I have a framework under. Three years of business who comes in. One of the key things that I'm working on is actually go and tell the people around you that you've started a business or actually go online, stand up and say, this is what I can do for you. This is what I want to do for you. And this is who I am and how I make that transformation. And it's really tough stuff. That's not easy, but yeah, when you're in design school, I think there's this. Kind of idea that you come out and the certificate reads the rest of it. And it's no, now you are qualified to start the work. There's actually this huge amount of stuff that needs to be done and it doesn't light everyone up, does it? Like it's not for everyone. It's not for everyone. And that's probably been the, one of the biggest surprises for me is actually how much I enjoy creating the content and learning all that backend stuff. That's really shocked me because I'm not a social media person. I barely post on my personal ones, but I've really enjoyed learning about websites and learning, yeah marketing and yeah, it's, I found it so interesting. Sorry. It's probably like the entrepreneurial spirit to you either have it where you come up with ideas and you like to consistently learn. So it's always about lifelong learning, but then also you like the challenge of being rewarded. Cause all that stuff is what you've put out into the world. So there's certain. I guess personality traits that you need to have. And it doesn't mean you have to be you don't have to be loud. You don't have to be on camera as often. I show up all the time on my stories, but I'm always saying that there's so many different ways to be you. And you're attending our personal branding day and getting some new shots done, but some B roll, and then there'll be like a shift in your content, but it'll all be there for you. And I do think that it's good. You talked about branding and photography being a really good investment in the beginning, but it's generally every, I don't want to get this wrong, but I feel like how it feels in my business every 12 to 18 months, it needs a whole refresh of new folks. I just get sick of seeing the same outfit and the same face and it's no one else notices, but I've been looking at that dress for good two years now. I need to get changed. I need a new outfit. Definitely. Yeah. Shake it up a bit. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm about to get into some rapid fire questions, but I wanted to ask you, we worked together over a year ago, definitely over a year ago in a private coaching session. And we pulled together a big strategy and plan where I can, I was going to go. And I just want to know what have been some of the biggest changes to the Veronica that I sat down with in this studio would have been, I reckon about this time a year ago Yeah. And today. Some of the biggest changes probably would be I think letting go a little bit. I think I think definitely because I'm not a social media person, I'm not someone that is, I'm slightly more, an introvert. And so I don't like to be in front of the camera. I think just getting over the fact that I need to put my face on Instagram. I need to speak, and show people who I am because people need to know who I am before they're going to want to work with me. I think just realizing that people don't care as much as I think they do. God, I can get on my stories. I can have a chat and it's actually not the end of the world. So probably letting go of some of those hangups is definitely one of the changes I think, Being full time in my business is obviously a big change. Having more time now to be a bit more strategic has been really a big turning point. That sort of feels like growth though, doesn't it? Cause the first year is a scramble to hold on and survive it and to set up. And then it starts to be like, I can look at strategy and start to think ahead of the game and work on my business. Cause there is a business that exists to work on now. And in the beginning, it doesn't feel like that. I feel like I owe you an apology. I don't know if I should be like taking that, talking that up as a win or saying, sorry, when it comes to my full framework mantra of progress over perfection and like letting go a little bit of some of that, a lot of girls come to me and they're like, I'm very type a, it's got to be like this, that, and the other. And I'm like, or you could just get it done and improve it one to 2 percent every time you have a client and you get feedback and eventually it will be that perfect document, but you will have a document. Oh I definitely have perfectionist tendencies. Yeah, you ask my family they will agree, but letting go of that and just working towards, getting a little bit better every day, rather than trying to be perfect every day is really important. When we chatted, It was right at the moment where I was actually starting to get clients and actually starting to get really quite busy. We spoke and you gave me this great advice and then I got all these clients. And I had no time and I probably didn't implement any of what you told me. Should go back to it. I still got it in my, I resend it. We've got, it's a shared document. So you just go back in and, check. I think it was check boxes too. So you could just go back in and click through and get it all done. Feel like you've got a lot of cheap today. He's got done that. Yeah. I think, At that time, because I had so little time, it was, everything was very reactive and it was just get the client work done. Now I'm in more of a position where I can, plan things a bit better, work on the business a little bit more and think more strategically and. And also you had a timeframe as well. Like I remember you messaging me and saying, guess what? We've made a decision of when I'm going to step away from working and step into ARC and Arlo full time. And you had enough lead time and we're in the framework supported to get the documents and get the processes and get everything sorted, that it was actually very smart and very well planned in terms of. Instead of just whipping the rug out from under you and being like baptism of fire, I'm just going to survive it and work it all out. It was like, okay, I'll keep going, keep pushing, keep work overworking into the night, knowing that's coming up, but I'll also get some ducks in a row. He felt a bit safer. Yeah. And we talked earlier about celebrating the anniversary of starting your business every year. Sort of the reason why we chose The date that we chose was because it was exactly two years after I started my business. So my first full day in my sorry, my first time working full time in my business was exactly two years. After I started, so it was a bit superstitious. I don't know, but yes, but the benefit was that, I feel like I eased into my business, which has been for me quite nice. There's just so many different ways, isn't it? You speak to some people, it's it just took off organically. There's a bit of momentum now. Sorry. That's, to me, it just feels like an, it's just, for me, it's been a nicer way to come into working full time in my business. Perfect. Alright, let me get into these rapid fire questions and then we can wrap up. What are some of your perks and irks of the industry? A perk would definitely be trade discounts, it's nice for furnishing my own house. Yeah, I don't know. I'm like, let me get my list from over here. Probably my could be, the misconception about what interior designers do and how technical it actually is. I think people don't actually realize that there's a lot. It's not just pretty colors and, pretty cushions. There's a technical side to it as well. We were doing drawings and, very detailed. Elements to the project. Yeah. Where creativity meets science, but everyone just thinks you fluff a cushion. Exactly. Yeah. What's your favorite design tool you can't live without or piece of software? Oh God, definitely SketchUp. SketchUp is my bread and butter. Because I actually just really like to work in 3D. My brain works better in 3D. Sorry. Even if all I'm creating are 2D, I don't know, layout concepts, I have to do it in 3D. That's just how my brain works. I like to be able to visualize it, all to scale and I use SketchUp every day. Dream design project. Anything goes? My dream project will be when a client comes to me and says, your style is my style, so you can have free reign to do what you please. That would be my dream. And budget, no budget. No budget, of course. And that goes without saying, everyone's you don't even need to tell us what that means. That client comes in, they don't have budgets. Yep. So amazing. Thank you so much for joining me today. I've loved hearing a little bit more. We chat about it all the time and I am across your business, but it is always nice to take that little bit of time and go a bit deeper. And I know anyone listening that is In the study beginnings, middle part of their business. It's always nice to get those moments out of other people. Just like we were talking about when we all come together, you learn stuff from other people in a different way. So thank you again for joining me. Thanks for having me. Hey, bye for now. Chat soon. That wraps up another episode of Designing Success from Study to Studio. Thanks for lending me your ears. Remember, progress over perfection is the key. If you found value in today's episode, go ahead and hit subscribe or share it with a friend. Your feedback means so much to me and it helps me improve, but it also helps this podcast reach more emerging and evolving designers. For your daily dose of design business tips and to get a closer look at what goes on behind the scenes, follow at oleander underscore and underscore finch on Instagram. You'll find tons of resources available at www. oleanderandfinch. com to support you on your journey. Remember, this is your path, your vision, your future, and your business. Now let's get out there and start designing your success Today's podcast partner was Purefloor. Purefloor is a 100 percent natural plant based formula cleaning product. It uses multi enzymes that continue to work up to 72 hours after you're clean. it's a soap and chlorine free stain remover and odor remover. 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