Breaking the Mold: Kelley, Balm Interiors and her Mission-Driven Business

In today's episode of "Designing Success," I had the pleasure of interviewing Kelley Dowling of Balm Interiors, one of our international Frameworkers from the U.S. Kelley shared her unique approach to the interior design industry, particularly focusing on affordable, personality driven design for millennial women experiencing significant life transitions. We discussed her background in government and nonprofits, her innovative pricing model, and her commitment to making beautiful design accessible to everyone. Kelly's passion for social justice and her distinctive business model make her a refreshing voice in the interior design world. Tune in to hear her insights and inspiring journey.

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Transcript

Speaker 2: 0:12

Welcome to Designing Success from Study to Studio. I'm your host, Rhiannon Lee, founder of the Oleander Finch Design Studio. I've lived the transformation from study to studio and then stripped it bare and wrote down the framework so you don't have to overthink it. In this podcast, you can expect real talk with industry friends, community, connection, and actionable tips to help you conquer whatever's holding you back. Now let's get designing your own success.

Speaker: 0:36

On today's podcast episode, I had the pleasure of interviewing Kelly. Kelly is a current Frameworker. She's located in the US. She's one of our many overseas girls. We have US, UK, Portugal, Ireland. We've had lots of Frameworkers study with us from all around the globe. And I wanted to chat to Kelly because I often will speak to some Australian students. And I love a different perspective. She has a very unique way of pricing her services. Her office suite is different to that of any I've come across before, and I think you'll really love her approach to the interior design industry as a whole. So I won't keep you any further, please enjoy my chat with Callie Dowling of Balm Interiors.

Rhiannon audio kelley: 1:18

Hey, Kelly. Thanks for joining me.

Kelley audio Rhiannon : 1:20

Glad to be here.

Rhiannon audio kelley: 1:21

For listeners who aren't aware of your business, can you tell me a little bit about where you're from, what business you run and a little bit about the journey, if you will.

Kelley audio Rhiannon : 1:31

Sure. I live in the U. S. I'm in the Austin, Texas area, but like a suburb outside of it. People are familiar. I, my background is in government and nonprofits took a little stint to be with my daughter for a couple of years, and then I decided to take my decorating hustle mainstream last year. So I'm still in my first year of business. My business is called Balm Interiors. B A L M, Balm. And I really focus on working with clients who are primarily women, primarily millennial, they're very busy either. very early in their career or going through later life change, like having babies, getting married empty nesting, that sort of thing. And really trying to support people who want to build like homes that are layered and storied and very personal at a budget that's like much more affordable. Then what like other interior designers or decorators are typically working with. A lot of my clients are doing a lot of DIY, they're doing a lot of thrifting and so I just help them avoid the really ugly DIY mistakes that everyone's going to be ripping out in 10 years. So they can have a home they love and it's been really fun, but I'm still Yes,

Rhiannon audio kelley: 2:53

the budget stuff, because I think when we get in to interior design, there is a lot of, what's your dream project, no budget and high end luxury pieces. And the approach that you have, just as you explained, like you're very clear on who you need to work with, where your niche is, who your ideal client is, what we're doing. And it's very different to anything that I've. Pretty much been exposed to all the designers I've worked in the framework. It's not a usual approach to be like, I'm looking for people with low budget to support them and to help them. Is this sort of linked to your former career or is it just something you're yeah, I'm just wondering how do you land there? Because most people are looking for the budget to be stretched further and further. So we have more and more luxury pieces, but that's not the vibe that I get when I chat to you every week.

Kelley audio Rhiannon : 3:42

That's a good question. So I definitely have a little bit of a social justice bent. I worked in nonprofits, I worked in the public sector. So that's I think I just bring an awareness to everything I do that. I want like one of my core values is I want beauty to be a human right or you know it ought to be a human right. And really my dream for the world like if I could make it happen was you know every home whether it's furnished when you're leaving a shelter or something or like it's your placement if you're in like a domestic violence center or something like for it to be beautiful and designed maybe not with expensive materials but with Design principles in mind. So that's some of the values that I'm bringing to that.

Rhiannon audio kelley: 4:31

I love that so much. And yeah, you don't hear that angle very often. I say angle. It's not as though it's a contrived or manipulative sort of approach in any way, but it's just really refreshing to hear core value and the, the reasons behind why you do what you do. And do you think, has there been any. Push, not push back that you're aware of, but how do you think that sort of perceived in the industry as a whole? Do you feel like there's other designers in your local area or or even just broader across the U S who would be like, you can't charge that, or you can't do that, or you can't come at it from that angle without affecting the way they do things, or are you just blinkers on do anything?

Kelley audio Rhiannon : 5:14

So usually the ladder, usually a very much lingers on. And I think the reason for that, I am not, I would not consider myself like an entrepreneurial person. Like I'm not someone who wants to do. The heavy labor of running a small business, like without having a reason. And I think last summer I started thinking about okay, I'm actually I think I was working on three spaces for like my sister, one of her friends and my mom last summer. And I was like, I think I want to do this as a job. And then I was starting to scrub the recesses of the internet. Looking for maybe not a design house that was really targeting that middle class consumer, but someone who included them maybe had a model that sort of scales. And that's what I envisioned for my business in the future is serving a higher end client in who are in the Austin area who want more like full service design but are interested in supporting a business model that's still very inclusive, providing e design services. I also offer like a pay what works, it's just a discount code but based on if you meet different metrics for being scarce in like basic needs access. And then I also want to add digital resources for people who don't want to pay, minimum several hundred dollars, like to work with me on one room. I feel like one response. That I have seen in networking with local interior designers. It does seem to catch them off guard or maybe make them a little bit insecure. that I think they're a bad person because they serve a different client or something like that. I have had that just in like networking situations. And I could be reading it wrong. Maybe I'm just doing something weird and they think I'm weird and maybe that's true The other response that no one has ever told me directly. But I do wonder sometimes I'm talking to people, my rates are, my e design rates are more expensive than similar. Then other like e design service offerings for people. Online in the US that are working with the client that I'm trying to reach. And I do wonder like what other, the other designers, like how they think about that. But when I look at the projects that they're delivering to clients, it's much more. Everything's new. The client would have to go out and purchase all those things within, three to six months or something before inventory turns over and they can't get that item anymore. Frankly, I I don't know, like I I don't love them. I feel like I'm trying to think of like how to say this. I feel like the designs are all new. They heavily lean into things that are trending, even for furniture, and just as a brand value that I have, I'm never going to recommend something to a mid budget client that's like a primary piece of furniture that isn't going to live through the trends of the next 20 or 30 years because I don't think it's worth their money and with my the documentation that I give, Science at the end of the process. There's a lot of implementation documents related to if they're out and thrifting for purchases, I have a spreadsheet that I send them that breaks down the project into phases and gives them an idea of how to budget over time because that like big sticker number can be really overwhelming. And then also I have some formulas just based on like data that I've gathered of how much this project will cost if you go out and source things yourself thrifting or do some DIY. And I think those Tips. They make it really actionable. It's easier for the client to go and actually implement the design without having to purchase a bunch of things all at once. I feel like the designs are more resilient. There's a lot of like education and information about like how high to hang things, things like that, that I don't see other e designers serving my client. Like they're not necessarily offering those things. So like working with me is more expensive, but I feel like. The value? Yeah,

Rhiannon audio kelley: 9:23

Do you think some of those lower cost, I'm just going to say lower cost e designs or whatever, are sometimes propped up or supported by larger companies as well? Like I know that there are companies where you can go and basically shop a designer, get it, or get a ready made design. There's a lot of, especially in the U S I see that is a lot more of that. In the e design space, it used to be find a single designer, work with that single designer. And the pricing used to be a lot higher than the Australian market. And I know that when I worked with my U. S. clients, I'd be like, okay what is going on in that market was so different to what was happening here, which is probably why I went after them because here it was just not all that. But now you're seeing these big companies who are like aggregators of designers and pull them all in and they pay to get the leads. And then, so they're propped up and supported in a different way, because you've got all your own overheads, you're investing in yourself, you're in a mentorship program you're doing like a whole bunch of stuff that needs to be factored in somewhere.

Kelley audio Rhiannon : 10:24

Yes every furniture, like every big higher budget furniture store usually will offer something similar to interior design services where They do a video call, walk through your space, all of that stuff. And then also Havenly,

Rhiannon audio kelley: 10:41

That's the big one I was thinking of.

Kelley audio Rhiannon : 10:44

yeah, I actually worked with a client last year who had gone through the process in the same space that we were doing her great room, like living room, dining room combo with Havenly. And she did not have a great experience. They. At least at the time. And for whatever e design products she had purchased, they require you to purchase things through their platform which most lower budget clients are going to want to shop around and do the dealing with back orders and stuff themselves in order to save money. So that was frustrating to her. And then she just never felt like. The design was like a, the designer that she was paired with was a good fit or was really understood the vision that she had. And it does seem you were talking about their aggregating designs. It did seem like there were channels and options. And so even when she gave them her own. photos. They just put her into one of the pre decided pathways. So I'm sure that honestly to me that sort of work, it looks a lot like home staging to me. Like it's just so generic And it's not bad. Like I'm, if that is what you want for your phone,

Rhiannon audio kelley: 11:54

There's a client for that. Of course, there's a market for that. I've worked with people who have come to me after the fact, and most of the same issues are there in terms of. It didn't feel like a home. There's no personalization. There's no real intention and thought process behind each and every selection. It was more of a, tell us what colors you like, tell us what pieces you need and tell us your overarching style in one word, mid century or whatever, and we will deliver you the rest. And that's fine. Like not throwing shade at all. I literally was just Interested around when we're setting our pricing or whatnot, I would imagine that has to be factored in because they're getting some support that you just are not from a larger company in that way. It brings us nicely back to pricing because you mentioned your pricing model and it's not one that I've been familiar with ever before working with any other designer in the framework. Do you want to talk to me a little bit about how that decision was made? Yeah and how it's been received out there, what, and what it is for those listening so they can get a bit of a, it's always nice to hear how other people are doing things if they're doing it slightly different to you and get that. Maybe you start a cross continental revolution in the design industry around pricing

Kelley audio Rhiannon : 13:13

sure. So right now I have two primary design services total transform e design, which is your typical sort of like everything end to end. I think I, I use the terminology, like everything you need for your own HDTV style renovation. And then I have another service called a room refresh that is like functional space planning. And we just play Tetris with. Things you have in your room, things you might have in your garage, things your mom might be willing to give you. And then I give them suggestions for three to five additions that they can add if they want to immediately or over time to make their space more elevated, but it's not the same. It's not a fully finished product that I would necessarily like display on my website, but it's going to be. You're going to love it so much more. And then I also have a service virtual home consulting. This has just been a tricky learning curve one for me. It's not like you mentioned, it's not something that is widely available in the industry, but the idea of this is to support clients who are. Going through some kind of life transition and they may not want to work on three specific spaces. And do one of the e design packages. It's more just we do a call, we can talk about whatever they want. And then if they need a mood board, because they're choosing flooring, like they can choose two hours of my design work, like however they need. And that one's been a little bit tricky. With me learning how to translate, Industry terminology so that people understand. And then also learning how to politely set boundaries when clients are asking for extra things. And I've tried several iterations of that. That's been a challenge. And I think it, I'm definitely learning.

Rhiannon audio kelley: 15:05

So it's two hours, but it's almost like a subscription model, isn't it? It's two hours every month over a course of time. Yep. So you basically become their designer in their pocket that they can call on, but they're only able to use two hours of your time per month. Is that right?

Kelley audio Rhiannon : 15:22

plus the 45 minute console call. Yeah,

Rhiannon audio kelley: 15:25

Yep. So 45 minute concert call and then two takeaway hours that you do away from the call after the, whatever's going on for them every single month. And then they generally buy like a three month pack, six month pack, 12, like how long do they need you on the books? And

Kelley audio Rhiannon : 15:44

to be honest, I'm still figuring out a lot of that stuff. Right now it's just month to month, which is a little bit chaotic to keep track of. So I do think I need.

Rhiannon audio kelley: 15:54

find people dip in and dip out that way as well. Like then you become a bit more working. At their beck and call. If they're like, I need you this month and no, like that's quite, to me, that feels difficult from a cashflow perspective and a security perspective around if you're only like monthly contracted to me and you're paying this lower rate to do that. I think if you have volume in that strategy, you're going to find if you feel like you're chasing your tail a little bit, all that, like all these people call it in the month of May. They're like, I need you. I need you. I need you to need it. And then this. Like crickets again to use that word in the month of July, because everybody's out celebrating summertime and might be a few challenges in that one.

Kelley audio Rhiannon : 16:37

Yeah I'll report back like in a year and I'll let you know if I'm even still offering it.

Rhiannon audio kelley: 16:43

When you, when that idea was first broached to me in our alignment call before you were even in the framework, I was like, Girl, this is crazy. I have so many holes to poke in it. And you were like, I don't want to be in your course because I'm just on a phone call with you and you are tearing me down in terms of, no, you'll never make money like that. Nope. We're going to do it this way. Or, but I love that you have stuck to your Guns down gone after the core values, because the more I understood it after that call, the more I understood why you were doing it. And then it connected more for me at the beginning. I was like, Oh, it's just naivety. You don't know what you're doing. You come in, I'll get your prices up. We'll do this thing. And I actually didn't push to do that with you because I think once we explored it more, I was like, I think you have to do. What you have to do and you are creating an entirely different business than the one that just doesn't know what they're doing. So it wasn't that you're going after that pricing because you don't know how to ask for more money, or you needed to work on money mindset. It's I feel like I could work on money mindset with you every day for 12 months and you'd still go, thanks. Okay. Bye. And do it anyway, because it's not a lack. Of knowledge around your worth. It's actually, I want to be this change and offer this thing and help these women in this circumstance. So you win. I lost that one.

Kelley audio Rhiannon : 18:04

yeah, I think when I first came up with the idea, I was definitely thinking about working with people who are moving. Maybe they were doing, they had bought a fixer upper that they were wanting to give eight months of, their own blood and, blood, sweat, and tears to, and they just wanted help with the design decisions. I have had one, Client like that. And I do think it was a good fit for helping her like make some of the finish decisions that can just cause so much stress and honestly end up giant mistakes. But I've also ended up doing a lot of like shelf styling, which I hate,

Rhiannon audio kelley: 18:37

Same.

Kelley audio Rhiannon : 18:38

because it's just as much work as designing a room,

Rhiannon audio kelley: 18:42

much and how flippantly clients will add it onto the end. Oh, and we're just going to need to fulfill all those built ins as well. And I'm like, Whoa, hold up. That is a additional paid service. There is no way inside of this mood board. I'm picking all these little individual decor pieces and making sure that they fit on the depth of that shelf and the height to the next shelf. And it is we all know listening and chatting how much work it is, but, Yeah. It's always just this sentence just before the call hangs up and you'll need to do that. What? Wait, what? It's a lot.

Kelley audio Rhiannon : 19:14

Yeah, I often find them more difficult than rooms. I'm not sure if you would say that too because it's usually so many more objects and they're layered.

Rhiannon audio kelley: 19:23

Mostly because I find it more difficult virtually, not because if I was a stylist and I could go around with all of the items it's because of the difficult layer of the, Being an e designer that people don't realize I'm not there. I've never even put my eyes on that. And of course I can do it through drawings and through other things, but that's hours of work. As I say, to work out, does the base of this vase fit on that depth of shelf and will it stick out and all the things that shelf styling for me, I need to eyeball, I need to step back. I need to edit and take away with the negative space. We all know how to do it really well. And I always worry virtually I've done it to its. Space need and not really well. So it looks good, but it's nothing like it would look if I was there in person.

Kelley audio Rhiannon : 20:08

Yeah, that's so true because when you're there, it's like Joanna Gaines on Fixer would just pop in her, earphones before they were like earbuds. And it's just like a flow state.

Rhiannon audio kelley: 20:19

And you make just choices based on texture and it just needs to move. You dunno why it needs to

Kelley audio Rhiannon : 20:24

You just feel it and then, but when you're doing it on a computer screen, it feels like calculus and I don't love it.

Rhiannon audio kelley: 20:32

you mentioned that you're not a very entrepreneurial person by nature, unless you have obviously a really deep desire or core value and immediately I went, I would refute that. I see you work really hard. And as someone who obviously I get a front, To your business and the creation of your business. And I feel like there haven't been that many frameworks who've come in and binged the whole thing, actioned everything, within a matter of a fortnight of you being in, you're like, here's the first draft of my pricing and services guide. And here, I'm up to this. And I felt very much, especially knowing that you have a little one at home, that you have gone all in, you are working really hard. I'm seeing The confidence of which you fell into social media and like showing up and stuff. It ordinarily takes me nine out of the 12 months working with students to get them to show up like that. What was that something you were already doing in your personal social media or how did you get over that feeling of imposter syndrome and phobia and fear and actually just get in there?

Kelley audio Rhiannon : 21:37

When I talk about not feeling very entrepreneurial, all of my professional roles before this one were like the background person to someone who had a very public facing role. I was executive director, executive assistant to The leadership team of a nonprofit. And before that I had worked as the legislative aid for like public officials. So I was doing all of the backend work. I think it's the public facing part that I don't love and that doesn't come natural. And you asked about the social media stuff. This was not something that I was doing at all. Personally, I have been, I would describe myself as allergic to social media, like even from. My parents were very strict and so I wasn't allowed to have any MySpace or otherwise until I was 16. And it's never been a big, it's been a really big learning curve that I've invested a lot of time, just learning how to use the softwares, make the things when to post that kind of thing. And I think getting over the hurdles, it really is the why Because the front facing part feels much more difficult and vulnerable to me than the back end work. And so I think that just knowing Even in these first couple of years when it's like more crickets than clients, I think is something that you've said many times knowing, I really believe that the client that I want to serve is out there and maybe if they're not following me yet, just me being myself, trying to bring some level of authenticity, that I'm comfortable with. I really do believe at this point that, there's purpose in that. And I think it helps. in the times when you're questioning your decisions and feeling like a failure, which, I should put that on my calendar for at least once a week because it always happens. The

Rhiannon audio kelley: 23:29

Don't worry me to it's a business owner thing. It's a woman thing. It's not always, it's hard to show up all the time in that level of energy, showing up all the time, doesn't always, even though we talk about authenticity all the time, it doesn't always look like light and shade because of boundaries. And because of the way that we especially want to project professionalism in our first. Couple of years before we realize everybody's cuckoo and it doesn't actually matter. But in the first couple of years, there's no way I would show up and have a conversation around it not being an excellent, productive, wonderful, blah, blah, blah kind of day. I didn't feel like there was a place in my business to say, Business is hard. Life is hard. Cost of living is hard. Children are hard. My God. Like I can't all, I have so many glass balls in the air right now that all I can hear is broken glass because I just, I can't physically catch them all. And those are things that I'm very comfortable talking about now and hope that helps some other business owners out there. It'd be like, Oh my God, thank God you said that because that is what I'm feeling. But in the first Couple of years, it was always I have to show up fist pumping and celebrating something and doing something positive and speaking really positively. And I think that can be very taxing as well. Yeah, there's a lot to be said around protection of your. Mental health and protection of yourself in that online space, because especially we spoke about crickets instead of clients. So what you effectively show up for is a feeling of failure constantly. It's, you show up constantly and then you track the data, which means you constantly see 23 likes and something that took you an hour and 23 minutes to create. And it can be this consistent reoccurring feeling of that's not good enough. You're not good enough. And I love what you said about. Knowing your ideal client and knowing your niche and who you're going after. I promise you, they are scrolling after the kids have gone to bed, after their busy life has stopped, their release is sitting in the car at football practice, checking out Tik TOK. Cause that's going to be my 20 minutes a week that I can do that while simultaneously looking up and being very involved in tooting the horn at every goal. But yeah, it becomes our responsibility to hold the line and to carry that and to show up all the time. And I just love that I guess attitude and approach, which is, I know they're there. Even if they're not making a lot of noise at their end at this point. And so you, I have seen you doing amazing educational content across Instagram. There's TikTok being investigated. Where else are you working in the social media platforms?

Kelley audio Rhiannon : 26:12

only place I'm posting right now is Instagram and Facebook. I,

Rhiannon audio kelley: 26:16

Oh, there was a TikTok debacle wasn't there?

Kelley audio Rhiannon : 26:20

my account was banned before I ever published anything for violating community guidelines. So I'm still not.

Rhiannon audio kelley: 26:28

Do you have an offensive name? Do you think it's bombed? Something in urban dictionary that I'm not aware of.

Kelley audio Rhiannon : 26:35

I don't think so. So that's going to be, I'm Taking a social media break starting in June, and that's on my list of things to investigate. And then also it was an idea that you gave me. I do think moving some of my educational content to YouTube, because I'm already doing the filming and the work, and honestly making things You know, inside 60 seconds or 90 seconds, oftentimes is like more work than just letting them be the link they are so just gonna flip my iPhone and start recording a different direction for because it, I do, I have people, I get a lot of skips. On stories when I'm like sharing more talking head explainers, like I did one about deep diving the different gold tones of rubbing buff, which is a DIY product that I really like and recommend for light fixtures and brains and stuff like that. And I'm.

Rhiannon audio kelley: 27:29

it for hardware. I did it to my kitchen cabinet hardware and then of course it's so high traffic and we touch it every day and I'm like, that's back to normal. Okay. Should have come to you first.

Kelley audio Rhiannon : 27:38

Yeah, I think I recommended it to someone one time who were as like a home staging kind of thing and like a bathroom they didn't use very much. But yeah I'm not sure that

Rhiannon audio kelley: 27:47

It's not its intention, but great for frames.

Kelley audio Rhiannon : 27:50

Yeah, frames and light fixtures, unless it's slow enough that you're like touching it all the time. But I got a lot of like skips on that one and it makes sense like when people are on Instagram, they might be looking for like quick hacks or things that are relatable or funny, but they're not making those decisions

Rhiannon audio kelley: 28:07

But they have to, that has to be of interest and need for them right at that moment. So it's something I would search on YouTube, talk to me about Rub and Bump, but it's not if you're talking about that, I'm like, that's not me. That's the thing, isn't it? Everything that we create, you need to be creating a mirror to the person who needs it. And if they don't see themselves in that mirror, It's a waste of our time. So that's why when we talk about consistency and frequency of showing up on social media, I actually don't care if that's once a week or once a day, as long as whatever it is that you bring has been properly considered and is that mirror to your ideal client, because otherwise the quality of the content that you're putting out suffers for the sake of frequency or for the sake of strategy and concept, content calendars and being able to fill more is not. More I don't even know that makes sense, it's just for the sake of the noise. Whereas if two really well crafted pieces a week that hit the spot are going to work so much harder for you than actually pushing yourself into a state of hospitalization from overwhelm, because you're trying to show up in ways that you just can't.

Speaker 4: 29:09

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Rhiannon audio kelley: 29:40

What's been something in business that's been harder than you expected?

Kelley audio Rhiannon : 29:44

Not sure how to answer that because. I am a serial pessimist. I don't know if I'm a pessimist, but when it comes to assessing the difficulty of things, I usually go in assuming they're going to be horrifically hard.

Rhiannon audio kelley: 29:57

But see, it went the other way.

Kelley audio Rhiannon : 30:00

I think it's met my expectations. And I also I have a lot of operations experience like from my time in nonprofits and even the nonprofit that I worked for had like a startup catalyzer. And so I, I knew a lot about kind of the small business logistics, even though it's, you file different tax forms in a nonprofit, but organizationally it's like pretty much the same. So I think I had pretty healthy expectations. about how difficult and how much time the backend stuff was going to take.

Rhiannon audio kelley: 30:33

Could see that experience when I, sent you the resource library that's hosted in notion. And there are two different people. There is one that's thanks for that. I'm never doing anything else on notion, but I will access the resource library and look at what you've done. And that's it. And then there are those that are like, Hey, I've watched some YouTubes, I'm starting to get the hang of it. And now I'm using it as a software to run my business or to help elevate my processes in the backend. You can see that experience from where you've come from is that, you can't really hide from it. If you want to. You hit the ground running, you have to find the software that will support you do, to do that and get the processes in

Kelley audio Rhiannon : 31:10

I think if I did have to say something that's been really difficult, I think it's just continuing to stay upbeat and engaged when no one is engaging with you, like online. That really is challenging. And it's so funny because even I've reconnected with some friends that I knew from high school through starting this and they follow me now and I'll hear from them, in texts or something like, like it's really been just watching your stuff, has really been helpful and helping me feel more encouraged in my home or, something like that's really encouraging. And I'm like, you have literally never liked me. anything that I've posted.

Rhiannon audio kelley: 31:53

ever. It's

Kelley audio Rhiannon : 31:54

is not how people engage now. They just do it with their eyeballs, but I think that's been super, super hard.

Rhiannon audio kelley: 32:01

it's a really great thing to bring up because it is this hidden trauma of all business owners, because for the first six, nine, 12 months, you are often showing up in a way where when you see people at the school gates or whatever, they're like, you're killing it. Like your business is doing so well. That's because of the energy that I'm bringing to every story and every front facing social media posts. But I'm talking the language of clients, but I never have one, or, I need to project this and I need to do this to feel as though this is something I'm not just Barking up the wrong tree, wasting my time. Zero talent. No. Like all those fears are sitting there, but you have to front up feel the fear and do it anyway. And you have to do that relentlessly. And I think it's a really great observation that you make, that I think most of us, all of us have felt, many of the people listening are feeling. And it's nice to be able to talk about it, to say, that is a really tough thing to show up. Consistently over and over when nothing's happening or nothing you expected to be happening. And also that additional time that it takes where you're like, I would have thought the effort that I'm putting in, I am doing the things that you told me to do. I've embraced social media. I've Got my face out there. I've built the backend of my business. I've got all of my documentation. I, I know how to run the financials, but I don't have any invoices to bank. And that period is probably by far the hardest because that's the bit where you're like, I have a choice to make. I move forward or I burn it all to the ground. And it's really tough. There's just this pivotal moment. And I call it like, it's such misery before magic. It's just on the precipice of things. It's happening in your business and it happens to everybody. And that is purely because everybody does the same thing, fronts up the energy levels that it actually takes. It's exhausting. So it's nice to have conversations about it that are realistically what everyone that listens here has either been through that or they're currently feeling that. And if you are so not alone. That is absolutely those shower cries on the floor. That's a thing. That's a thing for everybody. I promise you, you cry less, but you still stress in the shower.

Kelley audio Rhiannon : 34:22

Yeah, what are they? There's a, something that they, that's, that of songwriting or poetry the specific is universal, or something like that. It's like the most intimate, specific thing that you're feeling or doing is actually everyone is too, and yeah, that's true, I think that. Yeah it's in the shower.

Rhiannon audio kelley: 34:39

It is. It is. So I'm interested to hear what made you explore. You said that you, obviously, before you decided to take a leap into running a business, I know what you're like, and I'm sure you've researched everything and what was available to you and the decision to invest in the framework, especially after we had a discovery call or an alignment call. And I was like this will never work. I wasn't, but I was, I did pick some holes in your entire business and you still went ahead and invested in the framework. Why not a US group? What was that decision for you?

Kelley audio Rhiannon : 35:16

This is a good question. I was wondering if you're gonna ask me something like this. So I think it was more, it just felt like a better cultural fit. Because a lot of the sort of like business guru coaching mentality and the U S is like very coastal culture, like East coast, West coast, like New York, LA kind of thing. And so even, people that are. In Kentucky or something like they're still that's their persona kind of and I think i'm from texas, which is like in the south like we're just a little bit more Chill, don't take ourselves quite as seriously and I think I didn't I was a little bit intimidated by I guess feeling like I would have to match the energy or aspire to be like You whoever, the coach that, because I started getting ads on Instagram for a couple people in the States, some of them specifically doing content for e design, like I want to help you start an e design business. And I think I, they either just didn't have you had a lot of marketing experience and like digital marketing experience that was appealing to me and then I think you're just very relatable and chill. And so I knew that

Rhiannon audio kelley: 36:41

And I'll never send you an email that says, hi friend. I will never, you won't see any of my advertising. That's got that coaching cheesiness to it. I don't think I, yeah I hope not.

Kelley audio Rhiannon : 36:55

yeah, it's not like that at all. Yeah. Yours are very, I think there's also a lot of. Mindset kind of obsession in the business coaching space. in the states. And you have brought up like some mindset insights, but that's not really the foot that you lead with is a lot more like practical and actionable. And I think that was just like really appealing to me because I was in a very let's get it done. And then I think it was just the pitch of I'm literally giving you my documents so that you can just put your stuff. And I was like, I would just pay for that.

Rhiannon audio kelley: 37:30

Yeah, it's

Kelley audio Rhiannon : 37:31

But yeah, so I think it was the culture. There's a, it feels like there's a lot of alignment between I'm not in the Midwest, but the flyover state mentality in the U. S. that it just,

Rhiannon audio kelley: 37:47

really

Kelley audio Rhiannon : 37:47

was that. I

Rhiannon audio kelley: 37:49

interesting. The top two things that I think people do say to me is yes. I just wanted the fact that I know everything that you have in your business is accessible just to put in my business and I don't actually have to go and spend three days Googling it or like I've had over 800 clients give me feedback before that you perfect them over time, in a place where it is actually what the clients want. And it's none of the other fluff. So in terms of what's in the welcome guide and the second piece there is that there is very little, there is no woo here. There are coaches in Australia and the U S who lead with breathing exercises and meditation and and mindset I don't. Manifest things so much as get them done. And that's really something that I am all about. I don't, I think it's probably my generation as well. Like we're not my generation. You couldn't call in sick from work unless there was blood coming out of your eyes, or you hustled or you did those things that we have shifted, which is fantastic, but I'm also very solution focused. If you have a problem, I am so going to help you with it, but I'm not going to sit in it with you. And I'm not just going to think our way out of it or feel our way out of it. I'm going to be like, here are the three different strategies we can do to climb out of the hole, pick one and let's get moving. That's just my whole MO. Okay, I don't actually have time to do a lot of sitting and focusing. I need forward momentum always, which is a big thing you hear inside of the framework, which is just like, we can, we can analyze the crap out of it, or we can just. Assess it and move on and get through, do something else, get into it. That's great feedback. Nice to hear. I always do get curious because we have a couple from the U S and the UK and we've had Portugal and Ireland. And I love having people join the framework from overseas, but I'm always like, wow, what about it? Was that kind of catalyst to say, I'm going to join a group because there is the time difference issue. There is a, you talk about cultures and Culturally there's, was it you that, yeah, you posted in Slack the other day. We just got lost watching Aussie accents on YouTube, which is welcome to your entire community. You can just dial in and poke fun at us because we all definitely have a twang to how we speak

Kelley audio Rhiannon : 40:02

celebrities teach you Australian slang. Oh

Rhiannon audio kelley: 40:04

Yes, what piece of advice would you have for people? Behind you, like coming up, maybe they're still in that summertime thinking period of, should I enter the entrepreneurial world? Is there space for me? People are often saying things like, ah, it's a saturated market. Yes, there are millions of houses around the world. What would be your piece of advice for someone considering doing what you are currently doing?

Kelley audio Rhiannon : 40:34

I think I came in with this mentality, but I think you emphasized it in a lot of the marketing modules as well. Like client obsession or obsessed. I don't know how you word it like client obsessed. Your brand should be client obsessed. I think having a really clear. idea of who is the person that you're trying to help and like why. How is that meaningful? And how are you going to help them? I think that really helps to sort of power through like the difficult moments, at least for me to feel like a sense of purpose in what I'm doing. And I also think it helps people to just trust you and for your brand presence to be more appealing. I've gotten a lot of good feedback on my email list. I send out like a weekly email

Rhiannon audio kelley: 41:27

on the list.

Kelley audio Rhiannon : 41:28

Yes. And every like fifth or sixth is something like sales oriented, but everything in between is I'm not trying to sell you. I'm not trying to spam you. Here's just something that I think will be really helpful. And I think, I modeled that like on how your email list, your nurture, like email lists are structured, but I think just things like that, that you're more interested in your client and how you're serving them and the people in your audience and like how you're serving them, then building like a certain status or reputation or image for yourself, I think people can tell. And I also,

Rhiannon audio kelley: 42:04

come to the right place then. Cause that's a hundred percent my ethos. Like you're just talking my language there. I'm like, yep. Because if you are client obsessed and everything you do is to serve, then it's not selling it's helping. And then it just changes. All the adjectives can just change because I'm not trying, I don't want. A seven figures, six staff empire. I don't want that. I've got three kids. I don't want six staff. Can you imagine? Oh my God. Yeah, so I guess it's knowing what you're designing your success. What is your success? Like actually thinking about that and then feeling really okay with, as long as you're fronting up for the people that you serve, it's just a nice feeling. It just takes away any of that. It makes you feel. Totally fine about sending that one email. That's Hey, this is what I do. If you need it here, if you need, that kind of idea that feels so much more comfortable to me. I'm just really all about it.

Kelley audio Rhiannon : 42:58

Yeah, totally. And I just think it's so it's such a perfect, that is effective sales, like you said, if you sit under, I don't know, Donald Miller is like a, someone who teaches sales comes to mind like going into a meeting with if my service isn't going to help you I'm going to tell you not to do it, like that sort of attitude just creates. an environment where people feel like they trust you more. They are freer to say no because they don't feel like you're pressuring them. Like it's so perfect there. And then I also feel like for me, it helps me redirect some of that natural insecurity that comes from being a beginner. Into I actually believe that I'm helping people. So that's like a big one. And then the other one that came to mind, honestly came from just my experience. Supporting nonprofits who are getting started. A lot of small businesses fail. And I think that awareness and seeing that play out in real life helped to rid me of the fear of failing at this because you can be a great person, have a great idea. And it's just like the little turtles that hatch and go to the ocean. Like some of them like, aren't going to make it because that's just. The nature of capitalism and like business. And so I think that sort of helped me, like watching it happen and then those people go on to later successes or, learn things from that or something like it's not the end. I think that helped me not be afraid.

Rhiannon audio kelley: 44:29

how many stories do you hear where it's this is. This, nothing is an overnight success. And these things have this massive thing took off, but I declared bankruptcy three times on the way, yeah, it's that sort of the whole failure thing just fascinates me because it's but it's it, they say you like not grow through failure, not fall through. I don't know. I can't remember the saying, but it's. It's so instrumental. It has to be there. There has to be elements of failure in order to have success and to have growth. And not just so that you can appreciate it, not just that light and shade. It's literally throwing spaghetti on the wall. They, that whole that saying exists because some sticks and some doesn't, that you've got to try everything in business. And the scenario that you just gave, taking something to market that hasn't been validated properly, people might not want it. It's happened to me, it's happened to my colleagues and peers, that I've seen them hours, days, months, energy, effort, launch a service, launch a product, launch a course, nothing. People don't actually want that, or they said they wanted it. So you went and wrote it and they didn't want to pay for it. They wanted it, but they didn't want to pay for it. So there's a lot of ways that you can feel this failure. That's not a failure. What did you learn along the way? You learn how to write a course. You learn how to launch a course. You learn how to do all these things. There's so many great things that you'll take into the next endeavor that you do. And that might be the sticky spaghetti, maybe this one wasn't. Silence.

Kelley audio Rhiannon : 46:09

support your business. They're like probably not worth keeping around his friends. Because I do hear I think I'm a person I'm a little over a decade like out of college and that's you know Sort of a season of life where your friend group gets smaller. And so I think I'm comfortable with that but I guess I hear a lot of people in you know the framework community or like our talk about that as like being a concern and it has been for me too, but You if people don't support you you shouldn't be afraid of telling the people in your network about it and like asking for their support because if they don't support you, then they're not worth keeping around.

Rhiannon audio kelley: 46:51

Yeah. And friends do, it's just that no one ever says, I went out for a lunch last weekend and how's business? You know what? It's quieter than last year. It's different than last year. It's harder than last year. That's universal. That's happening to everyone. How's your business? My friend's a dietician. Talk to me about that. We're talking back and forth, but she's if I hear of anyone who's starting up the girl, his birthday, it was, is actually just graduated from interior design course. So I'm like I know someone that can help, but it's. It's more about being honest and having those conversations and not feeling like you have to show up when you don't have clients and be like, yes, kicking goals, doing all the things. If you can talk to people about, Oh, I'd really love to have a few more projects. If you hear anyone who's having any trouble making selections or if they need any support in any way. Let me know. I might have something just to help them, whether that's the monthly consultations or whatnot. People need a reminder of what you do as well, in order for that army to activate and support and help you. So sometimes it's also a case that we haven't spoken about it enough, or we've spoken about it really top level. I'm doing interior design. I'm starting a design firm. I'm doing this, but what does that mean? And who do you help? We forget to tell our friends that, and I think that's a really good public service announcement right now. Make sure. Your three best friends know exactly who you're for. So if they spot one of those people out in the wild, they can say, Hey, I know someone, let me give you her details. So if they're at a party, cause you want that's going to broaden your network, right? These are advocates for your brand. If they know what you do.

Kelley audio Rhiannon : 48:23

Yeah, and I love Being really specific with the who, and I think the walking through the marketing modules in the framework, like really helped me put like concise language to this, but I sat in a local networking event last week and everyone went around the room and talked about their services, who others in the room could refer to them. And so many people were like casting their net so wide, a realtor who would say anyone who's like buying or selling real estate or something. And I was just thinking as I like sat there and listened to that I'm taking that information in and just it's like I'm shutting it immediately because you're not giving me enough of a profile of the kind of person that like someone could come to mind. So I think not being afraid to go really specific because you're just going to like increase. the likelihood of being matched with that

Rhiannon audio kelley: 49:17

It's like a brain match. They have to be like, Oh, and think of you. And yeah, if you're at a birthday party or you're at a thing that you're not there, it has to actually spark in your head. Oh, I know someone, I have someone in mind that will absolutely be the right fit for you. I'm going to do my quick rapid fire questions, perks and erks of the industry far.

Kelley audio Rhiannon : 49:43

Irks, which is a fantastic word because we don't use that a lot in the US. It's like an SAT word. It definitely is an industry hazard that you're constantly discontent with your home and like wanting to change everything because you're just like seeing everything all the time. I was like, I worked on a mood board a couple of weeks ago for a maximalist space, which does not fit my life stage. Like I have a toddler does not fit my design. Profile like I get extremely stressed out in rooms with tiny small objects and I finished this mood board and I was like Am I a maximalist like you just you see everything and so that's

Rhiannon audio kelley: 50:25

studying media and then trying to watch a movie and you just see angles and shots and yeah.

Kelley audio Rhiannon : 50:31

Yeah, that's definitely a hazard perks of the industry I don't know what are yours?

Rhiannon audio kelley: 50:40

what's my perks of the industry? I think the go to or the easy ones are like trade pricing. If I want to buy something or honestly, the biggest perk to me, this is going to sound really strange, but it is an industry I come from a travel industry and, That sort of world. And I absolutely loved that. And then being in the interior design industry, I think it's that it's been a dream of mine since I was so little, that even just saying those three words together, interior design industry lights me up like nothing else. I'm so proud to say when someone's Oh, what do you do? Oh, I've helped interior designers start their businesses and, get chatting or whatever. And the next thing they're like, I wish she would stop. Oh my God. Cause I just get really, Like into it. So I think, I don't know, is it a label that is the perk? I don't know how to articulate that properly, but for me, it's the. It's the overall industry as a whole, but it's just every single thing about it, I'm obsessed with. So I feel definitely at home that I'm in the right place, but it's the, the constant learning, the constant shifting and changing of pieces. And also historically things moving in and out of trends and just having that language that's so old and yet something new Happens about it every single minute. I don't know. I just love it. You are gonna get me going for my own 45 minute podcast on my perks of the industry,

Kelley audio Rhiannon : 52:06

yeah, I think I don't know if this is a perk necessarily and you're talking about trade pricing. I haven't said any of that stuff up yet. That's also on my list too. I do especially, I feel like more than any other item like rugs, at least in my corner of the internet rugs like fluctuate in price more than anything else and because I'm watching everything all the time. I always know when to buy a rug and it's not always. On a typical holiday sales cycle. I don't know how they make those decisions, but that is a nice thing

Rhiannon audio kelley: 52:38

the perks. I've clocked the row the entire rug industry, and I know what you're doing. Favorite design tool You can't live without

Kelley audio Rhiannon : 52:45

so I'm pretty obsessed with color right now. I think it's the element of design that I'm just like learning and churning on. I'm, I am a nerd, like in the deep recesses of my soul. And so there's a tool from Maria Killam, who's like a Canadian designer, color master, she's great that's like for identifying neutral undertones, and so you like, hold it up to whatever color you're looking at, and then you have to get out larger, like these size. like color samples to find out like what neutral undertone you're working with. I'm pretty obsessed with that as a tool.

Rhiannon audio kelley: 53:21

I think I need to check that out. What is your dream design project? Anything goes. You can have anything.

Kelley audio Rhiannon : 53:27

I would like to work on a whole house with someone. That would be really fun. Typically, like the clients that I've worked with so far were doing like a living area, so we might do like a mood board for their house. And then go from there, but I feel like that would be really fun. And I do want to expand more into Offering services to people like at, higher budget. They want me to come install that sort of thing. Like once I get my

Rhiannon audio kelley: 54:00

feet.

Kelley audio Rhiannon : 54:01

I'm trying to do. But that would be like really fun and exciting to see everything come to life. Cause it is a little bit. In e design, you don't always get to see the fruit of your labor, like in terms of an after photo or something.

Rhiannon audio kelley: 54:15

Or you do get to see the fruit of your labor, but there's an inflatable snowman in the room.

Kelley audio Rhiannon : 54:21

oh yeah.

Rhiannon audio kelley: 54:22

I won't go into that because my client might be or

Kelley audio Rhiannon : 54:27

And since you aren't part of execution, like I had a design proposal that I put together at the beginning of this year and the husband agreed to the paint color choice. And then sometime between hitting send, getting through like the two week delivery period, he decided. That he didn't want to paint anymore. Things like that, like hazards, when you're not involved in install and execution, like you can't always see your whole design come to life,

Rhiannon audio kelley: 54:55

you see the whole design come to life. And then there's just this burgundy throw that's over there. That's got nothing to do with the color. It happens all the time. And it's just the part of it that you have to relinquish. Control you give the design, but you're not of the design. And so it is a tough thing. So anyone considering whether they want to do full service, a design, like just remember, they are very different things. And one of them is project management and execution. And one of them is okay, thanks. Okay. Bye. Can you just hand it over and you don't know what's going to happen. Was so nice to have you on today's episode, Kelly. I'm watching, I'm waiting to hear how everything goes. I absolutely love anything to do with, Different choices, brave choices, as long as you can back them up. As long as you have a trajectory, you know where you're going, you know why you're going there and who you're going there for. I can't wait to see what's next for Balm Interiors. And I will be here watching the entire time. Thanks for joining me.

Kelley audio Rhiannon : 55:50

thank you.

Rhiannon audio kelley: 55:51

All right. Bye for now.

Speaker 5: 55:52

Wasn't that a great chat? I enjoyed sitting down, having a more one on one approach with Kelly and getting to hear more about her business values and the things that are important to her as she builds a business that's sustainable, that she is enjoying, that she can balance with motherhood, that she can design her own success. If you're listening to this in real time, it is the best. Thursday today, meaning that you have just one day left to join us inside of the framework. My course for interior designers looking to start, scale, and sustain their design businesses. This is a 12 month group mentorship program where you will be supported weekly with video 24 seven chats inside of our private chat. App and thousands and thousands of different things that you can access. Be it templates, webinars, video modules. I'm not going to go into it. I it's just so crazy. Hence it's being split into three, but this is the very last time that you can access the lot. You can pay one 99 per month plus DST for the 12 months in a payment plan or join us paying full for two to nine, seven plus GST. All the details are on my website. You can jump into my DMs anytime over at oleander underscore and underscore Finch, but please hurry. Do not come to me on the 1st of June because doors will be closed. I've had heaps of girls join so far this intake, so I'm so excited to breathe an entire cohort of fresh air into the course and work with them all the way through into May 2025. That's it from me this week. I will see you after our personal branding event early next week. Have a great one. Bye for now.

Speaker 3: 57:33

That wraps up another episode of Designing Success from Study to Studio. Thanks for lending me your ears. Remember, progress over perfection is the key. If you found value in today's episode, go ahead and hit subscribe or share it with a friend. Your feedback means so much to me and it helps me improve, but it also helps this podcast reach more emerging and evolving designers. For your daily dose of design business tips and to get a closer look at what goes on behind the scenes, follow at oleander underscore and underscore finch on Instagram. You'll find tons of resources available at www. oleanderandfinch. com to support you on your journey. Remember, this is your path, your vision, your future, and your business. Now let's get out there and start designing your success.

Speaker 6: 58:25

Today's podcast partner was Purefloor. Purefloor is a 100 percent natural plant based formula cleaning product. It uses multi enzymes that continue to work up to 72 hours after you clean, it's a soap and chlorine free stain remover and odor remover. I can absolutely attest to this because my father in law rang me in a blind panic after he'd spilt hot, dirty, chocolate, milk, all through his beautiful rug. I whipped over there with my Purefloor, we treated the rug and I can tell you there are no milk smells and no remaining stains. So thank you Purefloor for sponsoring Designing Success