Designing Success
Designing Success from School to Studio by Rhiannon Lee is dedicated to filling in the gaps in your design course to encourage you to build a sustainable business that supports your dream lifestyle.
Are you searching for strategy, systems and support? Looking for a community to bounce industry issues around in? In this podcast, we will cover the interior design business infrastructure you need to supplement your design school curriculum with practical insights and actionable advice. We also cover all things marketing, product innovation, client acquisition, and more. Go beyond the theory, filter through the stuff that doesn’t serve you and get on with creating.
You will find real talk with industry professionals, practical tactics from business realists that leave you reenergised and focused on exactly how to improve the current landscape of your own business. For more behind the scenes of the interior design industry, check out oleander and finch in Instagram https://instagram.com/oleander_and_finch
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Designing Success
Bec Design Release
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UReady for some real talk? Join Rhiannon and Bec from Design Release as they dish on the highs and lows of the interior design world. From loving the unpredictable client projects to navigating the often lonely journey of solo business ownership, this episode has it all. Bec spills on her fave design tools and the unexpected perks of flexibility. Tune in for a fun, cheeky, and inspiring convo that’s a must-listen for every designer!
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And check out her website here https://designrelease.com.au/
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Welcome to Designing Success from Study to Studio. I'm your host, Rhiannon Lee, founder of the Oleander Finch Design Studio. I've lived the transformation from study to studio and then stripped it bare and wrote down the framework so you don't have to overthink it. In this podcast, you can expect real talk with industry friends, community, connection, and actionable tips to help you conquer whatever's holding you back. Now let's get designing your own success.
Speaker 17On today's podcast, I'm chatting to Beck from design release. Beck is a framework as she is inside of our group membership, but she kind of reluctantly came in when we first had our first alignment call. She was very concerned that the framework would not be a good fit because she was around five years into her business and she was considering doing some one on one or private coaching. And in the end, we collectively decided that actually it might be a pretty good fit for her. And she really hasn't looked back since. Today I wanted to talk to her more around her own sort of challenges that she's found across five years and what sort of things she has seen as the industry has evolved. Anyway, I will let Beck tell you all about it. Without any more chit chat from me, here is the lovely Beck from Design Release.
GMT20240520-010956_Recording_separate1-1Hey Bec, how are you?
GMT20240520-010956_Recording_separate2-1Good. How are you?
GMT20240520-010956_Recording_separate1-1Good. It's nice to chat. I feel like I'm getting a, I don't know, a non framework Thursday call in. It's just a one on one chat, which is always nice.
GMT20240520-010956_Recording_separate2-1Yeah. Lovely.
GMT20240520-010956_Recording_separate1-1Can you tell me a little bit about your business? Cause you're not, you're one of the frameworkers that have come in that haven't come directly to me from design school or before starting out. You've come a little bit further in. So do you want to tell me a bit about that?
GMT20240520-010956_Recording_separate2-1Yeah. I, my business is design release and it's nearly going to be five years old this year, which is crazy to think about. I know. I started out after I studied, I decided I wanted to launch straight into running my own business, which has had its ups and downs, obviously not coming from a business background, but really proud of how things are going at the moment. And I do mainly residential, a little bit of commercial work up here in the Adelaide Hills up in Woodside. So work with quite a lot of Hills clients, which is really lovely.
GMT20240520-010956_Recording_separate1-1Is there anything that stands out to you? That's been something unexpected that you love about running a business or running your own business? Cause it's not for everyone.
GMT20240520-010956_Recording_separate2-1No, it's not for everyone. I think the flexibility is something that appeals to me that not every day is the same.
GMT20240520-010956_Recording_separate1-1It's interesting that you say about flexibility there. Oftentimes when I hear people say flexibility, what they really mean is not work, like when, freedom and flexibility often get merged together. And when people say, I want to run a business to be flexible, they mean, I want to run a business to. Go to Westfield in the daytime if I need to, or to do something that's not work. And I actually really love that perspective of no two days the same. And it's quite challenging and it's quite it keeps on your toes. And that sort of perspective of flexibility is interesting. I like that idea. You always stop and explore something in your answers to be like, hang on a second. That's one of the things I love about business too, is it's not boring and it's not sale and it's not the same. And it's something we love about our design clients and our design jobs, but that you can live that principle every day as well by running your own business. It's pretty cool.
GMT20240520-010956_Recording_separate2-1Yeah. And I think you're right. It's, you never know who's going to call you, what sort of person they're going to be, what sort of project they're going to have. So that flexibility, I quite enjoy just being able to do different things, meet different people. That keeps me fueled and interested, I think, in my business.
GMT20240520-010956_Recording_separate1-1Yeah. It's funny because sometimes even the, you don't know what's coming in as In terms of incoming inquiry, but also sometimes you take on the project because it is a good fit to you, but it goes in a direction that surprises even you, or you learn something and go, okay when we first met, I didn't know you were going to do that particular type of stone stack and I didn't know much about it. And now I've gotten to, yeah, railroad my own plans and go over there and learn something about that.
GMT20240520-010956_Recording_separate2-1Yeah. And sometimes you chat to someone initially and you think, I'm just not sure if this is a good fit for me. I'm not really loving what I'm hearing about the project. And then you go ahead with it. And then you look back and go, wow, imagine if I just said, no, thanks. This doesn't work for me. They end up being just, Amazing clients and the whole project is amazing. And you just can't always tell that straight off the bat, which, which is interesting and exciting. And, it can be a little bit frightening, as well.
GMT20240520-010956_Recording_separate1-1Yeah, that's such a good point. Cause sometimes people like people are people where human beings, and sometimes they just having a bit of an off day and you're like red flags, I'm not going to do that and you lose a really good project. I believe you should be, not taking on everything, obviously, but I do think there's a place for second chances, maybe not third or fourth, but certainly if you're unsure, like if you can unequivocally say, I don't want this job in the discovery call, don't go to the initial console, but if you've got I'm in two minds about it, then it is definitely worth doing that secondary check or that initial consult because you have a voice to say no at any time of the project, but sometimes that initial when you're like, you're much, much warmer in person or some people just. Phone's not their jam.
GMT20240520-010956_Recording_separate2-1And also giving people a chance because often they're feeling really nervous and apprehensive about it. And until you meet them face to face in their home, often you don't have a great read on, read on the project. On them as a person or them as a family. And I find usually people surprise you with just the approachability and how nice they are to work with. I feel like it usually surprises me in the positive rather than the negative.
GMT20240520-010956_Recording_separate1-1And on the discovery call, I find a lot of clients can be intimidated by articulation of what they actually mean and what their design style is. And they're worried about what question you're going to ask them next. I don't know if you feel like that, but sometimes I'm hearing like actual panic about. What do I need to know to have this call? It's Oh, you don't need to know anything. I'm just a curious person asking a bunch of questions about your project. But at this point, all you need to know is you need help.
GMT20240520-010956_Recording_separate2-1Yeah. And they're always apologizing for not knowing enough or not describing things well enough and that sort of thing. So it's just realizing that also coming to the. The relationship with, their nerves or their uncertainties and things. And it just takes time for that to iron itself out and for them to feel comfortable moving forward with you.
GMT20240520-010956_Recording_separate1-1How do you feel like the discovery course have changed in those five years? Like thinking back to the early ones and the sorts of questions you knew to ask, or you didn't know. Oh my God. Do you remember actually hanging up and going, I forgot to ask what room it was.
GMT20240520-010956_Recording_separate2-1What was the address I have to, oh, they have changed so much. I think initially I had it all scripted out or I'd gathered, information from different people or different things online and mashed it all together for a script. And then I'd be so nervous on the phone that I just wouldn't even ask the questions that I'd written down and all of that. I feel like now I'm just feel a bit more relaxed about it. I feel like it's a bit I'm able to cope with the unknownness of it a little bit more and just go with the flow a bit more. And I find that helps them to be more relaxed at the end of the day. Yeah,
GMT20240520-010956_Recording_separate1-1changes. You're talking about I remember the preparation would take, I don't know, 1. 5 hours for a 15 minute phone call. And I would have to the point where I'd be like different levels of discounts. I was willing to offer written down so that so you don't give away too much. It's you're probably already only charging a hundred dollars. So I don't know why there was any discount line here. Oh my gosh, the things that I would do that I would never ever put on this podcast, suggest that you do, or it's all learning, but yeah, I love that, that I don't feel as alone when I think about all those scraps of paper and all of that possibility mapped out when you don't even know. And then you speak to them and they're like, Oh, we just need to put a turning circle in our front driveway. And you're like, that's not really me though. Like I can't help you with that. And you prep for an hour and a half.
GMT20240520-010956_Recording_separate2-1And so true you've prepped because I've sent you an incoming email through your website saying I'd like a bit of help with my kitchen say, and then you spent all of this prep looking into kitchens and what might they ask you and then so true, then you get them on the phone. They're actually, it's probably more about the lounge room, even though I said kitchen and then you get off the phone and you're like, that's, you spent so much time looking into kitchens and that really, that's was a waste of time. It's perhaps better just to get on the call and find out what they need and go from there. Yeah.
GMT20240520-010956_Recording_separate1-1true. And also, I think that's a really great point when we talk about articulation and things before, like someone might say the kitchen, but they're like technically it's the kitchen on the floor plan, but we use it as a this room and you've just gone and, I don't think anything's wasted time in terms of over preparation just continues to help us to learn. But certainly you might be pointing your energies in the wrong direction, which was my. Problem every time. And I'd get on the phone and be like, she said Scandi. So I went like Nordic and deep in and just looked at the origins and Scandinavian design and was ready to ask her does she feel she's more traditional or modern Scandinavian and act like I knew what I was talking about when in fact she was like, Oh, I don't know. It just shops like Norse and you're like, Oh, okay, then that's just, could be contemporary or anything.
GMT20240520-010956_Recording_separate2-1Yeah.
GMT20240520-010956_Recording_separate1-1What in your business has been harder than you thought it would be?
GMT20240520-010956_Recording_separate2-1think I have found the lack of community just more broadly. Amongst the industry to be harder than I was imagining, I feel like which I guess is true for everyone, but just trying to figure out a lot of things by yourself, if you're a solo business owner has been hard. The business side of things has probably become, come a little bit harder for me, not having had business experience. So I think that's taken me a bit longer to work out things that maybe more business minded people just already know, or can just work out quicker. So finance.
GMT20240520-010956_Recording_separate1-1have an exposure to yeah, like things like finance and things like reading reports and looking at analytics and actually knowing what they say, instead of going, I did it because someone told me to look at the data.
GMT20240520-010956_Recording_separate2-1Yes, exactly. Those things are probably have been the trickier things for me. I have just taken a bit of time to, to grow in confidence. I
GMT20240520-010956_Recording_separate1-1Yeah, it's interesting your feedback there around networking, because I think people think, Oh, it's not. It's not that they underestimate how lonely it is running a solo business, but that networking is your community. But networking is not your community because networking is about having some drinks and talking about the latest collection or what's happening more broadly as a person. So that's about building friendships and going and catching up and saying, Oh, Oh, I haven't seen you since the Polytech thing. And how are you? And that sort of thing. Whereas you're not necessarily getting in a room with those people and saying, Hey, When was the last time you broke up with a client and how did you approach it and how do you think I should do this? I've got this issue. I don't feel like we're like, I could be completely wrong, but my experience myself of networking is more social networking and not actually business networking, which is very targeted and a bit more of like the things that we do in our Q and A's.
GMT20240520-010956_Recording_separate2-1a hundred percent agree. It's about the having the heart to heart about business and about design and things. That is the thing that I find is a bit harder sometimes for designers to, to do. Unless you do find a really lovely group of friends that are local to you that you can do that with. It's a bit more just chatting about. Yeah, the product or the tapware or, the furniture line and things, but not so much the day to day slog of being in business.
GMT20240520-010956_Recording_separate1-1Which is no one's fault. It'd be weird if we showed up for a 40 minute, like polytech thing and two designers were crying and one was
GMT20240520-010956_Recording_separate2-1Counseling them and yes, that's right.
GMT20240520-010956_Recording_separate1-1strange and be like, I don't want to network anymore because every time I go, there's a breakdown. Someone is going through something. And I think that's what your group mentorships can be helpful for that off the, of the public radar experiences and conversations, isn't it?
GMT20240520-010956_Recording_separate2-1Yes. Yeah, no, absolutely. That's a good point.
GMT20240520-010956_Recording_separate1-1What's your favorite piece of business advice?
GMT20240520-010956_Recording_separate2-1I would say done is better than perfect. I used to have that stuck up on my mood board. I think if you're a detailed person, which often a lot of designers are, I find the whole getting things perfect is a big stumbling block or certainly has been for me holding back. Until you feel everything is perfect before you put something out there. So yeah, I would say just have a go. And whether that's taking on a project that you're not super sure about or doing some marketing that you're not familiar with, just have a go, put it out there. You can always take it, but social media, you can always delete it or take it down. If it's a project, I just think you learn so much by having a go and by making mistakes. So that's something that I wish I knew as a younger designer, I think.
GMT20240520-010956_Recording_separate1-1It's interesting because you can think of like your top three mistakes in the last five years, and you remember the name of the client, exactly what happened, how you approached it, how you overcame it, what was the end result. And I think that teaches you as well, that we're not brain surgeons and we didn't, nobody died. And even if something costs you money, you're like, this is how I would avoid that in the future. And that's it. What are we so afraid of? That's all that will happen is. The worst thing that can happen is really monetary. It's not of course, we take it so seriously. It's somebody's home, but we could fix it. If worst case scenario, you could strip it back down to foundation and go again. It can happen.
GMT20240520-010956_Recording_separate2-1Yeah. And you cannot learn those things without making those mistakes. It's so interesting, isn't it? That it's you look back on those mistakes and you think the only way I've now learned that lesson is by going through that, and then you're so thankful for the experience really.
GMT20240520-010956_Recording_separate1-1I spoke to a private coaching client a little while ago who I can't remember, there was just a miscommunication in the measure up where a PowerPoint was missed when they were just selecting some furniture, but then the TV unit came and the PowerPoint was visible where it shouldn't have been. But not really anyone's fault because it was a very quick consult of just what would you put here if no one was really talking. It wasn't. Being designed from the ground up, and it was just something that was missed. And instead of, that panic that you get at the site, it's okay let's look at the three ways that we can overcome it and approach it. Do we get a new TV unit? Do we remove, do we move the PowerPoint, get electrician in, or do we live with it? That's basically all you've got your three outcomes. And then you look at the cost of each of them. And then you present all three to the client and let them make a choice. And that is simply how we deal with. Mistakes it's about taking a breath, stepping back and then assessing from a third party angle, almost what are the steps that we need to take to reverse the mistake? It's not about who did the mistake where I think that's where our panic comes from. Cause we think everyone's going to be like, you did it. You are, you are the worst person that ever lived. It's pretty sure I'm just a human though. Like
GMT20240520-010956_Recording_separate2-1yeah, and maybe that's where the perfectionist part comes into that. You're afraid of doing something wrong and feeling like you're almost going to be told off. And that, that can paralyze you a little bit rather than just relaxing and going. Like you said, we're human. We are going to make mistakes. It's more about how I can communicate through that, how we can find a solution together. That's the most important thing at the end of the day.
GMT20240520-010956_Recording_separate1-1Yeah. And one of the biggest sort of outcomes that comes from that is you never miss a PowerPoint or you never, like all of those things, like I was saying, they stick in your brain to a point where they are what teaches you to be a better and better designer. And that is why when you are five years in and you do an initial consultation and you're like, is there any provisions for electricals that I'm not aware of? Or like the way that you see. Speak the way that you present yourself, the way that you know, to ask the right questions, that's all because you, when they forgot to ask what room you were doing,
GMT20240520-010956_Recording_separate2-1Yes, exactly. It makes me think the first kitchen, I think that I did a site measure and then was sending plans to the cabinet maker. And then he did his site measure. And I remember he called me and he's Oh, just double checking the width from wall to wall. You've given me this measure. And I've got this measure and it was that I measured the wall wrong, and he was fine about it. Nothing had been built or whatever. He was just flagging it with me. And I just felt so embarrassed and just so was so hard on myself, but it really wasn't a big problem. And now,
GMT20240520-010956_Recording_separate1-1we have checks. That's why that we communicate with our contractors and why they check and we check. And sometimes it'll be us. And sometimes it'll be them. Sometimes it'll be no one, which is great.
GMT20240520-010956_Recording_separate2-1Yeah. So I'm always really careful with my measures now. And, that's something that I'm just, I'm aware I've made that mistake before and it's all good.
GMT20240520-010956_Recording_separate1-1It's really good advice that you have latched onto in terms of done is better than perfect or like moving forward because there is such a huge part of designers. In general that like it's a control power or there's yeah, that letting go is really difficult. And because a lot of what we do is technical and there is only black and white, it can be really hard to embrace the gray areas in life or we can get really overwhelmed by choice. Like you look at Canva, for example, just choosing the one presentation that to template, to model all of your documents from, I reckon that's one of the hardest. Things in the framework, like I give you them and I'm like, this is mine. I don't particularly love it. It's just the base plate that I'm giving you guys. I would prefer that you took out the copy and the content and create a one that felt more aligned. But I also only want to give you 35 minutes to choose one. Cause I know if I don't, it's 35 days later and we're still stuck.
GMT20240520-010956_Recording_separate2-1That is me. Exactly. Yep.
GMT20240520-010956_Recording_separate1-1So you mentioned before working a lot with people in the Adelaide Hills and working around that. What have you, what is your sort of approach to local area marketing and where did you learn about what to do to get those kinds of clients?
GMT20240520-010956_Recording_separate2-1Yeah. I feel like I haven't done anything like a letter drop or that sort of thing, but right from the start, I've always been doing blogging, which I think has really helped with keeping my website fresh. And. I feel like quite a lot of inquiries find me through Google, which is really great. So I think initially when I had a bit more time, I blogged once a fortnight. And now I blog once a month is probably all I can manage, but just keeping like fresh content on my website, explaining my process, showing my projects, like answering questions around design through blogging, I think has helped me with the SEO and the Google side of things. Thanks.
GMT20240520-010956_Recording_separate1-1And it's such a great point that most people don't immediately go to digital answers for local area marketing. They immediately think mailbox drop, like you mentioned, or like a community. Approach, but actually consistently over time, Google my business. Like, where do you go to find a local designer? You Google it. And if your SEO is really strong, then you're going to have a really strong presence locally. Just, around comments on local Facebook groups and all sorts of things. There's a lot that you can do that you sometimes don't. Anticipate should be a digital approach, but it actually is. I love that. And also I would really, and I, I would do this inside the framework, but I really refute the idea of I don't have time in terms of if you have time to put all these eggs in this Instagram basket, you definitely have time for one blog a month because the actual outcome that you get over time, like we're talking five years in, so now you've done five years of SEO content. It's getting you the work. In a consistent cashflow way that we need to support our business. But what you did that had a 48 hour lifespan five years ago on Instagram is dead to you. It's not even worth repurposing because it's so outdated as a strategy.
GMT20240520-010956_Recording_separate2-1Yeah, that's right. And I think also if people look at your website and they can see that you are invested in your business and you're invested in design by putting up fresh information for them, I think that can help too, for people to think, Oh, this is someone that actually is really interested in design and they're current and they're giving me information free of charge. I think perhaps that can help too with inquiries coming through.
GMT20240520-010956_Recording_separate1-1Yeah. And just like that actively active in and on their website. Like you can see a dead website, like you can see a set and forget website, I should say, which is, you arrive and you're like, this has not been updated since it went live. And and there's nothing, there's a lot of dead ends and there's a lot of links that go to 404s and things don't link back through the website. One thing that's really important, that. You might have a snippet of you there that it links back to the about you page that links back to the book now page that you've got a journey throughout those static pages and blogs also are so good for our friend Pinterest. Being able to use those consistently refresh URLs and new content is everything. As well as we always say repurpose, it's also nice that what you're creating, as you say, is targeted to education and investing back into your clients. It's not just spitting out more and more of the same sort of stuff. This is not one of my questions. I love this. I just always unattended, whatever. What do you find the most challenging about local area marketing? Because obviously being in South Australia, the design community is a bit smaller than some of the girls in the framework catch up in a larger group. So I'm imagining that's just, volume wise, there's just more designers around. Yeah what's a challenge where you are?
GMT20240520-010956_Recording_separate2-1think perhaps location a little bit for me, like I'm a little bit further out of. The CBD. So it's always a little bit more of an effort to go into the city and go to different events and that sort of thing. So that perhaps is something for me. That's a little bit trickier. I think perhaps up in the hills, probably like anywhere connecting with like local trades, local cabinet makers or builders and that sort of thing is quite important because there is a little bit of If a client knows a certain builder and they will recommend you or vice versa, people feel more familiar and maybe more wanting to go with a local person. So that mouth is quite important. And yeah, I've spent a bit of time over the years, trying to get to know A few different trades working with a few different trades that has been positive, but it's a little bit more of a challenge because perhaps there's just not as many people around. So there's a smaller pool, which can have its pros and cons
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GMT20240520-010956_Recording_separate1-1In terms of talking about reaching a wider audience outside of Adelaide and working with doing e design, I think, is that specifically why you sought out the framework of working with me in terms of anyone that you can obviously join their group mentorship program, just building the e design side of your business?
GMT20240520-010956_Recording_separate2-1Yes. Yes, it was. That was the main thing learning about wanting to know more about e design from someone who is an e designer was. The main reason I think that I reached out to you and joined the framework. And then also wanting to learn about your notion client database was the second thing. So I think they were probably the two things. And I know I am denied a bit about whether I would join the framework or pay for those. More one on one mentoring
GMT20240520-010956_Recording_separate1-1Yeah, do it, do a one session and get the database and then yeah, get on with it.
GMT20240520-010956_Recording_separate2-1Yeah. But so pleased that I ended up joining the framework because I get all of that information that I was initially joining for, but plus just so much more. And it's been quite interesting because the two things that I thought I was going to spend all of my time initially looking into. I haven't actually really looked into them too much yet. They're certainly on my list of things to do, but I've been surprised at how much I've been looking into pricing and selling and Pinterest and more specific marketing through the framework that I didn't initially join up for those things. So I found that to be quite interesting, but also such a bonus because I've still got the e design and the client database that I've got plenty of time to learn about, but I've also been able to benefit from like all of these other things that were really unexpected when I joined a
GMT20240520-010956_Recording_separate1-1That's nice feedback. I do sometimes have the discovery calls and think, Oh, if I could show you, if I could give you the first three months for free and show you how much you have to do, how much you sitting in there, we wouldn't be having this conversation. Cause it's usually a bit of push pull with people who I'd say around the three to five year mark thinking it's not for me because when I get in there I'm going to have already completed, I've got my documents, I've got this, I've got that. But sometimes one of the greatest things to see is Oh, I could have done that just slightly differently. And I prefer that. And, or I freaking love my documents and I don't want them to look like that, but I have total validation now that they are rocking. And now one thing that I can change is the. Method of which I deliver, like I teach a specific method in the framework that you can only get in the framework because it's my specific method of delivery and a lot of people say to me, I didn't tweak too much about my documents, but the way I actually communicate and deliver them to my clients has just made me feel like my business has jumped a level.
GMT20240520-010956_Recording_separate2-1hundred percent. And I think it's where that community aspect comes into it again. It's the having you and the group of designers to learn from is so underrated. And I didn't value that. I think from the offset, I thought I'm going to come in and get very specific knowledge. About specific things and then tap out, but it's been quite the opposite for me, which has really surprised me. It's been such a lovely surprise to have just to reflect on how much I've gotten out of the community side of things and
GMT20240520-010956_Recording_separate1-1won't lie that surprised me too. I literally threw it in as an afterthought. Like I wrote the video lessons and I wrote the like resource library, which is just. Insane amount of it's just everything you could ever need. And then I went, Oh, do you know what? Just let's meet once a week anyway, just in case you've got questions, you won't be individually emailing them to me and clogging my week. I'll just. Put this one thing in the diary and then I'll give you guys a chat so that you can chat to each other. But what happened was it's totally my favorite part of the framework. It's just, I even almost didn't include it because I didn't like, like you, I'm fine, I'm six years into my business. I've been around, so I also just completely undervalued that would be of any. Ben a real benefit. Like I was like, I think for me, it's because I'd seen a couple of other courses and they run them in live cohorts, which means they have a specific week. Two is ideal client avatar and week three is this. And that bothered me because I was like, but what if you're over there struggling with trade pricing and it's week four, you either have to wait until week 11 to talk about trade pricing. Or you, yeah, you just don't feel like it's flexible and the framework to me, it is just like we talked at the top of the call. For me, it's my moment to open the door. Thank God you're here and just step in and go, what do you girls need from me this week? What's bothering you? What topics can we crack into and what. Where are you at? Or perhaps it's a particular I love it when it switches from pricing and services into the conversation of clients. And I've got this example and this difficulty, but everyone can do with coaching myself included all the way through to 15 years. Like I'm a total convert now, even though like I didn't do it. That doesn't mean I wouldn't now if I knew what I didn't know back then, I would have signed up straight from design school into running a business to continuously work with a group.
GMT20240520-010956_Recording_separate2-1yeah, because you can't learn all of that by yourself, even if you really are dedicated to Googling to your heart's content for hours and hours. And when you've done a bit of that, I feel like early on, which I did because I didn't have a group. You realize just how precious your time is and you look back and think, wow I did get the answers eventually, but was it worth the time I put into it versus.
GMT20240520-010956_Recording_separate1-1to find out something that now someone could have been like, Oh, I've done that. I'll jump on a call with you. I'll show you I see you guys breaking off and having private zoom calls and stuff if you need to about notion and other stuff. And that saves me as that saves me a loom or something that I have to record and teach. Yeah, it's crazy. There's the time that you use on YouTube, university and Googling. And then there's getting actual live feedback and like people's responses to whether you got it right. Cause I get to the end of some of those things in 18 months into my business. And was okay, I've worked it out. I've connected Stripe to the thing, to the blah, blah, blah. And I've written a PDF and I've now I'm going to send that out with every. Step four of the process, but no one told me if there's a better way wouldn't that make more sense to go out right on the welcome? Cause it's really about that. And so I will go on and run my business like that for another year and a half. And then someone might mention to me, and it's generally a client who would say just a bit of feedback. It's really weird getting the welcome pack on the off boarding day or whatever. Obviously I wasn't doing it that badly, but like my process is consistently improved based on client feedback. And that to me is a teeny mistake because I take a lot of pride in wanting to give the greatest client experience. And the best way to get the best client experience is to work with other designers and nut out that experience and deliver it. So it's proactive, not reactive, like you said, and you actually feel really proud of it.
GMT20240520-010956_Recording_separate2-1And it's also a different sort of energy when you can research something and figure it out by yourself. But it's also the energy cost in that I find versus being proactive, like you say, getting some feedback from other designers. And you've maintained a lot of your energy as well, because I feel like, you're giving out a lot. You're doing a lot of mental work and things like that when you are trying to find solutions to things by yourself all the time. And so you, you can get to the answer, but also what does it cost you in the meantime, if you're going to spend years and years doing that sort of by yourself, it can be quite isolating and draining.
GMT20240520-010956_Recording_separate1-1And dead boring sorry, but some of the it nerd forums that I've had to read from start to finish only to find out you want to see someone about a JavaScript and what is a job that I got to go Google that? Obviously I'm talking way beyond my understanding, but yeah, when you're really curious and you really want to get to the end, it could be quite frustrating for someone who's
GMT20240520-010956_Recording_separate2-1You're not even that tech savvy, but you're like, I will figure this out. And the determination
GMT20240520-010956_Recording_separate1-1yeah, that's it.
GMT20240520-010956_Recording_separate2-1Yeah. But it's it's not really that important in the big scheme of things. And you've probably wasted a fair bit of time just in your determination of finding the answer.
GMT20240520-010956_Recording_separate1-1Yeah, so tenacious that it's this will not defeat me. I will find a way to connect thing A to thing B. And then one day Zapier just drops into your like, focus. You're like, Oh my God, where were you all this time?
GMT20240520-010956_Recording_separate2-1Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So true.
GMT20240520-010956_Recording_separate1-1There's a lot of people that are listening that are in that and you don't even, yeah, you're constantly saying that phrase, like you don't know what you don't know, but you don't actually know that you're in it. Cause you're like I'm resourceful. I can find the answer. It's yes, but if someone gave you that answer and you could just get on with marketing to bring in a new client or working on the project that you are apologizing to someone is running late and so on isn't that a better and more fun use of time than reading a Reddit forum? We talked about different topics and things and how the framework, I'd always, I always relate it back to my parenting, but I have never been able, I have three children, I've never once had any of them sleep in a cot and go and have a day nap or do any routine stuff, which you would probably find surprising because I'm quite organized, but I'm just, I can't work out the routine Children, but they all sleep seven to seven. I've been very blessed. So if it ain't broke, I'm not fixing it, whatever's going on. And then I think the framework was a bit like that for me. I wanted people to just be able to take what they needed and learn from each other, like when you're further down, you're teaching the ones coming through and so on, and a bit of a round robin approach and also keep it like exciting. And I don't know what's going on, but is there any particular topic or area inside of the framework that you felt finally cracked open or you changed your approach to? Even five years in once you got in and actually watch some of the video lessons and talk to other people.
GMT20240520-010956_Recording_separate2-1Yeah. I feel like trade pricing was always a bit of a mystery to me. So that has certainly been something that you have helped me with a lot, just outlaying the different model business models that designers can use around Trade pricing and not saying to us, this is the one that you should be doing, but more just laying the information out in a really clear way. And that has really helped me to look at what I've been doing up until now, which has been passing on my full trade discount up until now. And now it's got me thinking there are other models out there and I'd quite like to try another model and just see how that works for me. That has been super, super helpful.
GMT20240520-010956_Recording_separate1-1Yeah, actually, I think I remember you sending me a message after you watch that trade pricing video and said, it's never probably clicked in such a clear way to me before in terms of just breaking down. This is what the invoice will look like from the supplier. And then this is what you do with it. And then this is how you create your invoice. And then this is it. I feel like I dumbed it down a lot, but at the same time, I felt very much like I had Lots of exposure to purchase orders and invoicing and things in my previous corporate career. And I felt like if I was coming in and starting a business, like we talked about before, and business wasn't my go to or I hadn't had any exposure, that would be the thing that would paralyze me. Like I would absolutely have done the same approach. You can have it all. Don't talk to me about it. I don't want that. I'm scared. Like it looks scary. So you know what, let's just call that your discount. And and unfortunately. I do have a bit of a perception that on the flip side, I feel like very few designers put enough on their upfront fees to cover the loss of revenue because they didn't really understand it. So you can absolutely make a choice and I'll lay them all out for you inside of the framework, and I will not judge, and I will not guide you in any way, but I will want you to make an effort. Educated decision so that when you are choosing you're looking at all the different models and actually like when this goes up your revenue that you collect. Through splitting trade discounts, for example, then this core price of your offer can be tweaked down and so on. Like I, I feel like there's not enough movement on both sides. It's generally just I've set my prices. They're this, and then I've made my decision on my model and it's this, and they're not actually being tweaked enough. In both ways. You can't see this 'cause it's not a visual platform, but I'm like making all these scales with my hands. But I hope that you can understand it. And certainly I worked very hard on that trade pricing piece inside of the framework to make sure that no matter what experience you have, including absolutely zero with the business world, you can finally look at it and make that decision. And there's no wrong decision. I honestly don't, I don't have a strong opinion either way. I just, yeah, it just has to be the right one for your business.
GMT20240520-010956_Recording_separate2-1Yeah. And that came across really clear. It wasn't like, this is I'm pushing you guys in a certain direction.
GMT20240520-010956_Recording_separate1-1it bother me?
GMT20240520-010956_Recording_separate2-1Yeah, that's right. And dumbing it down. You needed to dumb it down. For me. It was like, Oh, I actually think I understand this. And I was able to reach out to another frameworker who's had a lot more experience in that sort of thing. She showed me her invoices. I'm like, Oh, I just needed someone like I was a baby in that I needed someone just to spoon feed me step one, step two, step three. And for me to just go through that in my mind a few times and go, Oh, I actually think I might be able to try this. So that was got, yeah.
GMT20240520-010956_Recording_separate1-1Yeah. And it's really nice to hear, cause I do really remember the alignment call that we had and thinking, Oh yeah, tell me again, where, what are you doing, where are you at? Cause I don't want anyone to go in who is Oh all I got was the client database and, you also make your own fortune, don't you? Cause you show up every week. To the calls. And if a call is specifically something that you really don't have time for, I know you watch the replays and I see what you take out of the resource library and use and all that kind of stuff. So it's yeah, you really do just get what you put in to these things and making sure that you take every last little drop if you need it.
GMT20240520-010956_Recording_separate2-1Yeah. And you'll be surprised. You might get on a Q and a, and the questions might not really relate to you and your business, but you never, I've never, ever come away having not learned something or thought about something in a different way or heard another perspective from someone else it's you just, I've learned so, so much from the Q and a's it's
GMT20240520-010956_Recording_separate1-1Oh, that's good.
GMT20240520-010956_Recording_separate2-1Yeah.
GMT20240520-010956_Recording_separate1-1Or even just. Come away like, Oh, it was nice to have a chat for an hour with a bunch of people. I've, I know I feeling like I'm really getting to know. And because you can be a little bit more vulnerable in a safe lockdown space like that, you do feel like you get to rant a bit or just get stuff off your chest a little bit that you can't do. Or you poor husband comes home from work and you haven't spoken to anyone but your toddler or nobody the whole day. And you just seem to like word vomit at them of all the things. And they're like, do you even like your client? I do like my job. I just don't speak to anyone. So I find that's a nice release.
GMT20240520-010956_Recording_separate2-1Oh, it's been so lovely. Or you say to the kids or the hubby, like I'm doing this zoom call and no one come up here. No one talked to me. It's just great. It is. It is that as well. It's having that space to, to connect with other people. And if you're a people person, you really, yeah, you get a lot out of that. And that really encourages you and gives you really great energy to move forward as well.
GMT20240520-010956_Recording_separate1-1It's funny you say people person, because I think so many designers are, but they don't account for the fact that so much time is at home designing and doing the business stuff which is not on site and it's not with people. And it's you're going to need a second dog. This is like a lonely job. You're going to need an office dog. You're going to need podcasts. You're going to need like something to activate the part of your brain that's social. Cause you won't actually be out and seeing people often.
GMT20240520-010956_Recording_separate2-1Yes. I feel like the loneliness factor is something that the industry doesn't really talk about.
GMT20240520-010956_Recording_separate1-1That's not a good selling point, is it? Come on
GMT20240520-010956_Recording_separate2-1that great.
GMT20240520-010956_Recording_separate1-1really lonely. A
GMT20240520-010956_Recording_separate2-1And if you have been in a previous job where you've been working in a team or you've been around a lot of people, like I was a midwife before. So my world was definitely working as a, in a team, working really closely with people. I didn't at all anticipate the level of loneliness sounds super depressing, but it's not really, it's just more just having to change how you experience your day and where you get your needs met in terms of communication and connection with people. And that was something that I absolutely went, I was in the dark when I started my business. I just assumed I'd feel exactly the same sitting at home as I did working in a big hospital with babies and things. And it's not the same.
GMT20240520-010956_Recording_separate1-1quieter. But yeah, that's yeah, all those sorts of pros and cons, but I think you're so right. no matter what you did, you're often in a team and there's things about that, that you get really excited about not having to front up for when I run my own business, but I can have stupid meetings about the EDM that's going out next week where we have to six times while somebody else saw these. Useless questions that could have been an email and that I'm talking about corporate experience and like just being really annoyed at that and going I'll do this. You find lots of other ways to waste time. That's for sure. It's just on your own and you no longer have that. All right, I'm gonna get into some rapid fire bonus questions. There's just four of them. I would love to hear your opinion. What are your perks and irks of the interior design industry?
GMT20240520-010956_Recording_separate2-1Perks would be the variety of clients. If you work for yourself, to be able to go away and just really mull over their family, their house, their space, and see the look on their face. It sounds so cliche but really yeah, just see the look on their face when you're able to give them some solution, that's going to work for them. And to be able to do that regularly with all sorts of different people is such a perk for me. And wow, what a good question. And I think I have found it a little bit tricky to crack into some of the networking world. I feel like I'm still putting myself out there. But that has been an irk for me that it's been a bit tricky. It's probably a little bit to do with location and maybe I'm not just solely doing kitchens and bathrooms. And so some of my networking things are maybe more geared towards those sorts of designers and they already have connections with each other. So it's just, it feels a little bit like being back in high school and just yes, I will put myself out there and I will just say hello to you. And just be brave with that. That's. Being a personal irk, probably.
GMT20240520-010956_Recording_separate1-1And it can just irk you as a, like just being like, Oh, it's annoying to I'm going, I'm doing the things, but it can also be a bit perception led to like when you talk about being a bit high school or whatever, you can also feel like, Everybody talks about the interior design industry being clicky and being this. And so then you come in expecting that and you get what you expect. And I feel like sometimes there's an onus on all of us to be more open minded, more friendly, more and when I say more open minded and friendly, I wouldn't see that as an issue for you, but like to cross the room and break into a circle, you're probably very welcome in there, but they're just not going to open the circle and wait, like you have to get in there which is an irk of mine too. I don't want to do that.
GMT20240520-010956_Recording_separate2-1And I agree every time that I have done that, everybody is so friendly. And I would say the onus is just as much on, on me and my expectation. I think you're right. And also just being brave and putting yourself out there because yeah, people don't know you, so they're not, it's not like when you walk in the door, suddenly people are going to say, Oh, come over here and chat. Cause they've never met you before. So it is just putting yourself out there consistently and just trusting that people are kind and do have space for you. Yeah,
GMT20240520-010956_Recording_separate1-1funny. I just see that as such a difference between interviewing just someone I don't know and interviewing someone in the framework. I'm like, let me challenge that for a second.
GMT20240520-010956_Recording_separate2-1no, that's really good. That's really true.
GMT20240520-010956_Recording_separate1-1always funny. Favorite design tool or software that you can't live without.
GMT20240520-010956_Recording_separate2-1Canva definitely use Canva every day, I think, which a lot of designers would say that. I do use Adobe. Things a little bit as well, but I feel like over time, Canva has just gotten so user friendly that I probably use that more than I was expecting. I think I've played around with a few different social media scheduling apps, which have been super helpful because I was finding trying to do Instagram on the fly when it's really busy time of night with dinner and the kids and things, it would just not happen. So I found that actually forcing myself to do that. Be ahead with the marketing and scheduling things has made that side of things easier.
GMT20240520-010956_Recording_separate1-1Yeah, it's something that I think everybody is reluctant. It's I can think of a thousand examples of this, when you don't want to make a change because you're like, Oh, I have to learn the change. I have to do the thing, but that is the thing that can save you. It's my constant vein of my existence with notion. I'm like, I know it's scary and overwhelming, but if we get you on top of it on the other end. The amount of hours and time and energy it saves you is worth the investment at the top end. So I think the same as with scheduling and content, it's like you get to a point where you're so overwhelmed that, something has to change that change is going to be led by me. And I need to learn to do this in a better system in order to continue to maintain it. Or else I'm going to set fire to it, close down all my accounts and just give out the letterbox
GMT20240520-010956_Recording_separate2-1So true. So true. Yes.
GMT20240520-010956_Recording_separate1-1Biggest design trend you're excited about.
GMT20240520-010956_Recording_separate2-1I love a really collected, layered, authentic design style. Like I do really like classic modern, I like Scandinavian. I like Organic style. I do all sorts of different styles, but I really love to see an interior where you can see it's really layered that perhaps people have had saved up to buy beautiful art over time, or they have their grandma's chair that's been reupholstered with a new sofa that they really love, like just seeing those layers in the styling as well and different books that might be meaningful to them. That's the sort of interior that I really gravitate towards because it seems really authentic and honest and real.
GMT20240520-010956_Recording_separate1-1Love that. What a great answer. That's up my alley. That's the stuff that I love too. I think that the tagline of my business is curating the story of you. And it's just so much about my design philosophy was always around bring me your things that you've collected through your travels, the pieces that mean the most to you, and then let me work with you. Compliment those with some pieces that you're not really sure which ones to put in there to elevate that existing stuff. But there's such a, within reason we've all had clients. Are you like, Oh, do I have to work with that? Really? No,
GMT20240520-010956_Recording_separate2-1true.
GMT20240520-010956_Recording_separate1-1some things that you have maybe are not as yeah, perceived not as special to me, but that's quite rare though. I really like what you're talking about because those layers and that sort of. Curation is really makes a beautiful outcome and I think it's a great answer. Okay. Dream design project. Anything goes.
GMT20240520-010956_Recording_separate2-1I would love one day to buy a rental property and have it as an Airbnb. So I would love to do that. That's on my bucket list. I think I just think the idea of having free reign on your own space would be really exciting and fun.
GMT20240520-010956_Recording_separate1-1You're the client for once.
GMT20240520-010956_Recording_separate2-1Yeah, I'm the client for once, but also thinking about the client that would stay there. And again, thinking about the location and again, bringing in those meaningful elements and how to make it different to all the other Airbnbs, like that sort of thing quite excites me and is something that I'm interested in. I
GMT20240520-010956_Recording_separate1-1I will happily come and stay in the Adelaide Hills if that's what's going on, and I think that's super cool. That would be a fun project. And also of course, there'd be no budget.
GMT20240520-010956_Recording_separate2-1Yes, or a very limited budget. It would be how to work with a very small amount of money, but that's also I quite like that as well. Working with the budget and making it the best that can be without spending a ridiculous amount of money is also a fun challenge.
GMT20240520-010956_Recording_separate1-1Yeah. And it comes back to right at the beginning when we talked about that flexibility and that challenge and no day's the same. I think people who like to do that sort of there's people who are like, bring me as much money as you possibly can. And I'll see what I can put into the house. And then there's other people who love the challenge of like, all right. We've only got eight grand, but I think there's potential for us to thrift a few things and miss out on that thing and spend more on this. Yeah. I'm exactly the same when it comes to wanting to prioritize where we point the spend to make the biggest hero piece in the room and how I can bring everything else up, it's a really, obviously certain brains work like that, where it's just like the challenge of it is. What I want to sink my teeth into and see what I can do.
GMT20240520-010956_Recording_separate2-1Yeah, I think so. And maybe for me growing up on a farm, like my family home was quite like that. So perhaps that resonates a bit with me as well. Like a lot of some really beautiful pieces mixed with maybe some not so beautiful pieces, but it always just felt like home to me. So I just love that idea of replicating that for other people with their things.
GMT20240520-010956_Recording_separate1-1Perfect. You survived. Thank you. You've got all your rapid fire questions out of the way. It's been so lovely to chat a little bit more about design release, and I will make sure in the show notes to pop the website. If people want to go check out the blogs, if they want to follow you along on Instagram and see some of the projects that you have coming out. Anything super exciting coming up for this year?
GMT20240520-010956_Recording_separate2-1I am working on a beautiful 18, what would it be 70s historic home at the moment. I'm working with a client sort of room by room and that will be a beautiful Airbnb when it's done. So that's
GMT20240520-010956_Recording_separate1-1Dream project.
GMT20240520-010956_Recording_separate2-1I'm really enjoying that. So yeah,
GMT20240520-010956_Recording_separate1-1You just don't get to keep it.
GMT20240520-010956_Recording_separate2-1no, that's right. Hopefully I can afford to stay in it when it's done.
GMT20240520-010956_Recording_separate1-1Beautiful. Thanks, Bec, for joining me. We'll chat again on Thursday in the framework.
GMT20240520-010956_Recording_separate2-1Thanks Rhiannon.
GMT20240520-010956_Recording_separate1-1Bye for now.
Speaker 15That wraps up another episode of Designing Success from Study to Studio. Thanks for lending me your ears. Remember, progress over perfection is the key. If you found value in today's episode, go ahead and hit subscribe or share it with a friend. Your feedback means so much to me and it helps me improve, but it also helps this podcast reach more emerging and evolving designers. For your daily dose of design business tips and to get a closer look at what goes on behind the scenes, follow at oleander underscore and underscore finch on Instagram. You'll find tons of resources available at www. oleanderandfinch. com to support you on your journey. Remember, this is your path, your vision, your future, and your business. Now let's get out there and start designing your success.
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