Check Your Own Attitude'

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Transcript

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Welcome to Designing Success from Study to Studio. I'm your host, Rhiannon Lee, founder of the Oleander Finch Design Studio. I've lived the transformation from study to studio and then stripped it bare and wrote down the framework so you don't have to overthink it. In this podcast, you could expect real talk with industry friends, community, connection, and actionable tips to help you conquer whatever's holding you back. Now let's get designing your own success. Hello and welcome back. First solo episode back that isn't talking about all the work that I've been doing with the framework because the new course for emerging designers, I'm taking 10 students in on the 10th of August, which is in a few days time. I'm going to be So there's no point talking about what I have been doing because despite a bit of sickness going through the house and all those regular winter germs, everywhere I look is cancelled Zoom calls and people apologizing. Influenza A went through our house, but I'm seeing, COVID. I'm seeing gastro. The community has been really hit here where I live. And I hope you're keeping well wherever you are because today is my first day back in the office where I feel actively capable of productivity. Every single day last week was like, I have an earache. I have, pressure in my head, and it's really hard to show up in small business when you're like that, because you know you need to, and other people need you. I have a group membership where people have questions and they want to access me, and I can't always be on my A game. So big shout out to Therese inside of the framework who took over for me last week and hosted our group Q and a call, which was actually a delight to watch the replay and just see that, it's not all about me, which I definitely feel and know. And I just love seeing that the girls are completely capable of workshopping specific issues happening in their business together and together is what it's all about. That was lovely to see, but today I want to talk to you a little bit about pricing, but not in that general way where it's a lecture of what you should do and how the industry processes a couple of things, a couple of big takeaways that I want you to get from this particular episode. And the first one is pricing, not for what the industry expects, but for what your household expects. I am a huge, like I know everyone says find your opinion and step out from other people. And I know there are so many coaches who are talking about industry standard pricing at the moment. And that is great. Market research is important. And knowing what people are doing is important, but doing what you need to do to succeed and design your own success to me. Just aligns with my brand and who I am and how I coach. So I wanted to remind you that everything that we do when we're setting our pricing, it's good to have that industry standard knowledge, but we're actually setting pricing that takes into account how often you can work, What you need to bring in because everybody's situation is quite different, right? I have girls that I coach who don't actually need to work. They just really love it. And I have others that are like, Oh, I've got to keep my full time job for the first two to three years because financially with mortgage rates, the way that they are and things that are going on, it's just not feasible for all of us to go, you know what? I'm going to go all in and see what happens here. I certainly couldn't have if COVID wasn't a thing. That was the only real reason that I was able to give up taking my business from a side hustle to going all in is that I was practically supported by the Victorian government when there was if you don't make X amount per week, then we'll top you up because you've been fired because of a global pandemic. I'm very aware of the timing of my business and how extraordinarily unusual that was. I'm never going to be inside of our group program going, you just need to quit and try and do this. I always just want to find out what your actual needs are. So part of the pricing conversation I wanted to have today is not a lecture, as I say, about what to do, but a reminder as well, that your own feelings about money and about creative services for money. Do not have a place in your proposal fee. And what I mean by that is, and I often ask this inside group coaching, like what would you pay? to hire an interior designer. And usually you can hear a pin drop because most of the girls inside the course are like I wouldn't really pay because I can visualize all of this stuff. And we forget consistently that there is a large portion of humanity that can't visualize 3D or even 2D behind their eyelids when they close their eyes. So what I mean by that is there is some science around this. I don't have it here to reference, but there is. A thing, when you close your eyes, some people can see, if you say picture an apple, some people can see a drawing, a sketch of a 2D apple. Some people see the red apple from a primary school poster, A is for apples. Some people see it blood red like the snow white apple and with, the Water drops on the outside and ready to crunch into and really 3D and interior designers see the apple like that. They're the full picture. Robust 3D Apple and a lot of our clients come to us and a majority of people can't picture an apple in their own head at all, not even a sketch of an apple. So those are the sorts of people who are hiring us. And so when you are putting your proposal feed together, you're paying for the skill of being able to visualize a full apple and then being able to communicate that apple visually. and in documentation to them so that then they are like, aha, I see the apple before I go and buy the apple. It's very simple way of putting it, but we're all over town undervaluing our own time and expertise. And because we can do that naturally, because when you close your eyes, you see that detailed apple, you completely take for granted what a skill that is. Our personal biases really dictate our worth. So when we pull together a scope of work document and a proposal after we've met with our clients, we've itemized everything and we've calculated the hours and then, say it's 90, 100 hours, it comes out at 25, 000 and all of a sudden you go, That looks like a lot of money. I, this project, I'm excited. I don't want to miss the opportunity. That looks really heavy to me. I think I'll go in at around 1750. Why? Please somebody explain it to me because I can tell you from so many people that I coach, this happens all the time. The actual number comes out when we do the calculations. And I promise you, when you have calculated your, Estimated time. You always underestimate the time that you spend and the hours that you scroll and the love and care that you put into the project and the times that you wait while the little wheel of death is spinning on your computer and all of it. Generally the invoice under quotes that time and effort anyway. So the idea that you also look at it and go, Oh, I'm not sure about that. 25, 000. That looks like a lot. I'm just going to wind it back a bit. Do not do that. That is a you problem. That is a perception. That is money mindset, money stories that are probably coming from. Whether or not you have the ability to hire an interior designer and spend 25, 000, but your own situation is so different. I think about it like if I'm specifying art for a client and the client is obsessed with a piece, but I would never hang that in my house. That doesn't make it wrong. And it doesn't make it something they shouldn't invest in. It just means that I can select that and procure it for them. And I don't have to live with it. And in the same ilk, I don't have to pay this invoice. This is just what I will charge to do this monumental hundred hours worth of work. My hope is that sort of unpack that a little bit for you, because I'm seeing it all the time. Now, money mindset creeping into professional territory and what you'd personally pay for a service isn't what the service is worth. Okay, and the mindset shift is critical because it's something that even seasoned designers really wrestle with this. And I see it all the time. And like your property might not be a 5 million property, but that's the property that you're working with. When you go in and you quote, not even 2 percent of the job that they're paying, the builders, the electricians, everybody else, it just comes across. Like your work is not worth as much and it absolutely is. You're the person doing the detailed joinery. You're the person with all of the cards. You're basically running the project. You're a project manager. You should be paid like the CEO of that project. You should absolutely be going in and going, I'm taking control here. And my time and my expertise is incredibly valuable. And I think that we have. Got some work to do in that space of when we see that final number, it's hold your nerve and send the quote. And this is something that I say to the girls all the time hold it, send it. We can always work on feedback. And also every quote or scope of work proposal that you send out, there is generally a line that says, This scope is fully negotiable if you'd like to discuss bringing it down let's look at places where we can remove some of the work that we do and therefore we can change the costing but we don't undervalue just because you either want to win the work, you don't want to lose the opportunity, something that was meant for you will not pass you by, you are not going to lose an opportunity because you are charging what you are worth and you are well valued on the project. Every experienced designer will tell you that it doesn't always feel comfortable to send it, what feels more uncomfortable working on a project where you're the only person who's not being paid fairly. and you're doing a lion's share. A little trick that can help sometimes is to list out our billable and non billable value. So the things that we're bringing to the project and actually understanding how big that list is. So Listing out the things that you're charging for, obviously the things that you're actually doing, but the things also that you're not charging for, but that you also invest in. Maybe you invest in a group coaching program like the framework to improve your skills and enhance your deliverables. Maybe you invest in private coaching. Maybe you are constantly looking through current trends and reading magazines and going to networking events. And seeing showroom collections and all of that stuff is a time investment. It's a skill investment. It's non billable, but it's still, it's still something that you're putting in to make their kitchen better, for example, because you've spent a day looking at the newest appliances and what integrations are currently on the market or fingerprintless technology in cabinetry materials, stuff like that. So that's learning. That's a non billable Value, but it's something that you're bringing to the project. So thinking about those can help with the confidence of going, I'm actually bringing a lot to the table. The second thing you want is something we spoke about at the top of the call and that's around market research. So keeping abreast of what everyone else is doing. In your industry, yes, but certainly your niche are charging and that's not about copying or comparing, but just understanding the market dynamics and knowing okay this is pretty aligned. The only difference is it's X, Y and Zed higher and that's because this is X, Y and Zed request inside of this particular proposal or whatnot. So just having a bit of confidence in what's happening across the market. Above all though, I think we really need to work on the confidence piece in communicating that value and presenting our prices and our proposals and not going in with a mindset and a lead sentence that's if you want a discount, if you want to talk about reducing scope, or you really got to present this like this is me meeting you where you're at everything that we discussed in the client brief I can deliver. And this is the cost of me doing the work that you've requested. A quote is matching the price that it will cost for the service that they have asked you to do from there. We can obviously have negotiation conversations, but often we won't need to. And we certainly won't need to, if you've chicken about your final number and just shaved 5, 000 off the top of it. Which, which really does happen and I just hate that because then you get a yes and you never know what could have been because you probably were going to get a yes with the extra 5, 000 because that's actually what it would cost and what is a fair value reflection on what it is you bring. You've probably heard this before, but there is a age old adage around, the people who pay the least will demand the most. And it's absolutely my experience. I've spoken very publicly about my pricing strategy when I entered the interior design industry. It's not something that I necessarily recommend. It was during a very bizarre time during COVID and my strategy was, I wanted to build portfolio and I wanted to build practice. I was doing nothing at home with my two children once I lost my job, two little babies. And I was Really wanting to do enough e design that I felt confident to go after the U. S. market. And anyway, if you want to listen to that, go back to episode three, which is the Oleander and Finch story. And you can listen to that unfold. But those early clients that I worked with, and I would say to them we'll have a 60 minute, Zoom call, then I will give you five quick wins, five long term goals, a mood board, visual representation of our conversation. So basically like some write up notes, a mood board, and they would also spend an hour with me where I went through all of their design challenges, pick your brains type thing. And they would still come back and go, where's this from? Where's that from? I'm like, look, it doesn't include links. If you want links, you have to upgrade to an e design. And it was just really hard. I didn't have these people that paid me, less than a hundred dollars for this hour of my time and follow up documentation would send emails. I honestly still get emails from people that I spoke to in that first lockdown in 2020, nearly five years later being like, I can't find where this TV unit was from or. I don't want to be rude to say I don't remember you, but I was doing maybe eight or nine of these calls a week. I was working hard. Your girl was doing mood boards till two in the morning. I was starting my business and I was hustling. Like I was setting everything up. I was, yeah, it was a time, definitely. And my e design clients, I definitely am able to recognize the mood boards a lot more because I would have pulled together their FF, like their selections list and so on. But with those zoom calls, they were quick and dirty. That was the point of them. That's why they were cheap. And so sometimes I'm like, what? I don't even remember this person. And they're talking to me like we just spoke yesterday. And yeah, I guess you can see when I talk about that, like they paid very little and they're still demanding, Time and effort from me this far on, and it's not a big deal. And it is nice to reconnect with past clients. But my point for saying that is when you are doing projects, that are five figures, multi five figures, then you have to, you can do less projects. You can do those projects in a way where you're delivering a much more professional result, you have five of those projects a year and you've got a six figure business and you're feeling really good and you're sending off proposals and yeah, you've just got to get over the hump of sending that first five figure proposal. The first one that goes over 10k. And then when they say yes to that, it can snowball a little bit, Today's episode really is addressing that money mindset because chances are it's about how you were raised, money that you had, where you spend extra money, whether or not you value services like an interior design service. Most of us have never hired an interior designer because we've always Being able to pull things together well, we've always had an eye for things and that's why you're in the industry. So there's a real disconnect in understanding the value of that. So I hope today's helped bring some confidence in like, oh yeah, that's right. 80 percent of the human world can't see what I see when I close my eyes and they can't just see the bathroom from the floor plan in 3D behind your eyelids. That is an extreme skill, one that you're very lucky to have and it's worth it. a lot more than you think it is. So please remember next time you are pulling together your proposal and you get to the end, hold your nerve, come and message me on Instagram over at oleander underscore and underscore finch anytime if you need someone to champion you and cheerlead you into hit send and then please do not go to ground. You know that thing where you hit send and immediately you're sweaty and you're nervous and you feel nauseous and you're like oh my god I've made a mistake. I'm too greedy. I tell you who doesn't feel like that. Everybody else on that work site, I do not see, and I'm going to call out genders here and obviously there are not just male builders and female interior designers and that is not my intention when seeing this, but there is just that sort of disconnect where women worry so much in my experience about asking for money they worry so much about putting a price point on the work that they do, whereas men are just like, you ask for a quote, this is what it costs. That's my feeling, is that no one else is apologizing for existing on the worksite, you don't see the electrician apologizing for their quote. Whereas you're like, Oh, sorry, if you want a full lighting plan, I'm going to have to add some money to the scope. I'm going to have to add a line. I'm really sorry. Or that's a bit different. Or I suppose I could just specify a couple of lights in the powder room and entry. That's fine. I'll add it to the console. It's not fine. It's a different line itemized on the invoice. Anyway, I'll save my lectures for inside of the group membership where we really do work through people's quotes, like where the girls pull together a proposal. It goes up on Slack if they need it and the rest of us go, yes, I've got eyes over it. It looks right for what your scope is, that number hits right. And sometimes it doesn't, like I actually have gone in and gone, okay That number, explain to me how you got to that number because based on your experience, i. e. never having a client, it's quite high to charge 250 per hour, so let's talk about that and where that expectation came from. It goes both ways. I won't always just be like more zeros. That's not my intention, but often there is undercharging going on, and so it's good to have a group look over that and work together to give you the confidence to go, yes. Send the proposal. Do not alter that final number and then please track your time because every job that you do where you fully understand the hours, you're only estimating them, but I see people work for three years into their business, still estimating how long something takes. You can have an actual result if you just track one job and then you're like, Oh, I didn't realize when I was looking for all of the tapware that actually took me 22 hours and I just felt like I was just like scrolling and searching and going over to API, going over to Reese and, looking at what's out there. And if you actually track it every single time you need to. You might be surprised at your results. In fact, you will be surprised. Anyway, if you have any questions about today's podcast or anything in general, please always come and see me. There's also a new button on the podcast app that says, text me and let me know what you think of this episode. I don't know if it works yet cause nobody's used it. So please, if you're listening to this and you've got an opinion on today's episode or you want to just let me know what you think, I would love it. Just tap that little button and send me a text. It will thrill me with no end. Okay. That's it for me today. On Thursday, I am bringing you an interview with the founder of co theory, product based business. So not a service based, not an interior designer, but one of our suppliers. And I think it's really nice to hear all about the beginnings of Larissa and George's journey. So join me on Thursday for a chat with co theory. Bye for now. That wraps up another episode of Designing Success from Study to Studio. Thanks for lending me your ears. Remember, progress over perfection is the key. If you found value in today's episode, go ahead and hit subscribe or share it with a friend. Your feedback means so much to me and it helps me improve, but it also helps this podcast reach more emerging and evolving designers. For your daily dose of design business tips and to get a closer look at what goes on behind the scenes, follow at oleander underscore and underscore finch on Instagram. You'll find tons of resources available at www. oleanderandfinch. com to support you on your journey. Remember, this is your path, your vision, your future, and your business. Now let's get out there and start designing your success.