D&D, Dreads, and Doctor Who: A Chat with Aetsch Becker

Prepare to embark on a fantastical journey as we welcome the exceptionally imaginative Aetsch Becker, a Dungeons & Dragons devotee, Dungeon Master, and budding author. Known for their charmingly nerdy inclinations, Aetsch gives us an intriguing look into their D&D resources, including their monthly NPC packs on Patreon. Raised in a very sheltered environment, Aetsch discovered their passion for D&D later in life, proving it's never too late to find your people. If you're an artist, you'll be interested to know they're on the hunt for creative minds to collaborate with them.

As we navigate the vibrant landscape of D&D, we unearth the creative opportunities the game provides. Aetsch shares a fascinating story of a player who used a spell to craft a brilliant solution to a challenging scenario. If you've ever considered taking the reins as a Dungeon Master, Aetsch's wisdom will prove invaluable to your journey. We also delve into the daunting yet rewarding world of homebrew D&D campaigns, featuring a lively chat on a Doctor Who-themed campaign!

Our expedition comes to a close as we dissect how to construct a magical realism world, along with a glimpse into Aetsch's storytelling. We uncover the presence of duality in their series and how the structure of D&D and rules-based board games influences their writing. For our fellow Doctor Who fans, we dive into the upcoming season and explore the concept of expanded franchise universes. So, if you're a nerd at heart, eagerly seeking the crossroads of creativity and D&D, this vibrant episode is just for you.

Links:

Patreon: patreon.com/user?u=98338705
Author site: heatherhedera.wixsite.com/author

DnDSpeak (D100 lists) https://www.dndspeak.com/product-category/d100-lists/
Azgaar's: https://azgaar.github.io/Fantasy-Map-Generator/
City Generator: https://watabou.github.io/city-generator/
Coat of Arms maker: https://azgaar.github.io/Armoria/
Homebrewery: https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/
Stat Block Generator: https://tetra-cube.com/dnd/dnd-statblock.html

Chapters

• 1:13 D&D, Doctor Who, and Creating NPCs
• 13:46 Creative Moments and Advice for DMs
• 19:05 Starting Homebrew D&D Campaign
• 27:13 Resources for Building Your Own World
• 37:33 Writing and D&D
• 50:49 NPH, Doctor Who, Classic Who
• 56:34 Excitement for Expanded Franchise Universes

Transcript

Andrew: 1:14

Joining legends, Lute and Lord. Today is Aetsch Becker. Welcome to the, welcome to the podcast.

Aetsch: 1:24

Hi, thank you.

Andrew: 1:26

We're very excited to have you here today. We're going to talk all things D&D and and we're going to talk. We're going to talk about Doctor who because we are we are both big fans of. I was going to say for those, for those that are watching some of this, you'll see the background there. There's a big Doctor who print. We have that as a lamp. We have a lamp with that print on it in the oh, that's a blanket.

Andrew: 1:48

Yeah, we have it as a lampshade in our in our Doctor who room, but anyway, so for those listening, you're missing, you're missing out, but so so Aetsch is a D&D player, dm aspiring author and and many other things. So I will, I will leave the the full introductions up to up to , but tell us, tell us, a little bit about yourself.

Aetsch: 2:15

Well, I'm your typical 30 something neurodivergent, queer nerd. I love it, I wouldn't say quintessential. I didn't grow up being a nerd. I was cut off from a lot of things, very, very sheltered in a way. But yeah, I pretty much my entire life is Doctor who, dreadlocks and D&D. There you go, that's that's fantastic.

Andrew: 2:45

So so you're also working on creating. You've started creating some supplemental material for for D&D as well. So on, on a on a personal level, I'm interested because I'm working on a homebrew campaign and I I need some help with with some NPCs. But tell us a little bit about that and what you're, what you're working on.

Aetsch: 3:08

Well, right now I'm releasing one pack of NPCs a month on Patreon, with every Friday there's a free release. One page, one character every Friday. That kind of goes with the month steam. And I really just came about because I have all these characters in my head. I'm a writer, I'm a DM, like I just have so many characters in my head because I'm a people watcher and I can't possibly use them all or remember them all. So I thought my girlfriend helped me with the idea, actually, and she helped me actually create this month's pack as well. So, yeah, I just decided to screw it. Somebody could probably use these. I mean, I am huge on world building and character creation, but another DM might be more focused toward combat or or exploration of you know places rather than people, right? So I thought maybe some people could use some extra NPCs to throw in.

Aetsch: 4:09

The original idea was was oops, improv, oops, my players have gone somewhere I didn't plan on. I don't know who this character is. It's at this store or at this library or whatever. So here you go, or they want to go check out a library. I have a book nerd in my group and he wants to go check out every bookstore and library, so I have to make sure there's a bookstore and a library pretty much everywhere. There would be Right. So it's just it's designed to just grab and go honestly that's awesome. Or use it for world building.

Andrew: 4:39

Right, absolutely, that's great. I mean it's it's everybody, I think, has their own to, to, to quote Liam Neeson a particular set of skills and it's. You know, some people are not good at creating those NPCs and, like you said, you know, when you know it all depends on on how you you run the game as a DM. You know, if you've, if you've got them in the kind of the sandbox and let them go anywhere and everywhere they want you, you've got to be prepared for them to go places where you're not expecting them to go. So having having some NPCs available is is super helpful. That's, that's a that's a great tool.

Aetsch: 5:22

And not every DM is great at improv. I'm terrible at improv, I'm over.

Andrew: 5:26

prepared to compensate for that though that's great and for and for our listeners we will. I will make sure we include the link to your Patreon in the show notes, so so everybody go check that out for for all of your NPC needs.

Aetsch: 5:43

We are still new. We've only done two months so far, but every month I'll be putting out a new pack.

Andrew: 5:47

Fantastic.

Aetsch: 5:48

Also looking for artists who might want to join in on the project, because right now I'm using AI art, which is super, super controversial, but I'm very upfront about it and it's just because I'm not an artist. I'm not actually selling the art.

Andrew: 6:01

So I will. I will introduce you to, so a couple of episodes ago, my wife's cousin, Ryan Denora, who is a. He does, he does all sorts of production work and things like that. But he's he's a big D&D player and and he does a lot of graphic design. He creates, he creates drawings for all the, all the characters of the, the campaign, he DMs and things like that. So I'll send you his, his information, Cause he loves, he loves commissions and things like that. So Absolutely, I'll send you his information. So so tell me about this. So how did you, how did you first get started? Where, where did your journey begin with Dungeons and Dragons? What so? So you said you didn't, you didn't necessarily grow grow up in that. So so what? What initially caught your, caught your attention? And and how did you? How did you get started with, with D&D?

Aetsch: 7:01

Well, I had a little bit of passing interest. Uh, grown as a, as a kid, um, my brother my brother played it with a couple of friends of his but, uh, it was for the boys, um, which was less misogynistic than it sounds. It was more about, my brother was made to take me everywhere and this was the one place he didn't have to take me. Got it, um, but I had a passing interest. It just my dad was really into fantasy books and I wasn't, because, well, the covers didn't look like they marketed to me, so it didn't catch my interest until I was in my adult years. And, um, I moved down here to Texas about seven years ago and I had a couple of friends who played. Uh, one of them was playing 3.5 regularly with his family.

Aetsch: 7:44

He'd been playing and DMing since he was a kid, you know, since the original D&D days, and I begged, and begged, and begged, and begged, and begged, and begged, and begged, and begged, and begged, because before I moved down here somebody had started a BTM and we were going to run that. I made the character, I did a like graphical layout of her apartment, like I went all out, and we never started the campaign. Then I moved down here and my roommates are like, let's do a roommate Pathfinder game. I'm like cool, I make a character. We do one and a half sessions and it never continued again. So I begged my friend and he made me back because he wanted to make sure that I was committed to it. Um, so it's like I'm like, I'm like, I'm like I'm like I'm like I'm like I'm like I'm like I'm like I'm gonna do D&M and then we started over and Yep Right, and then eventually he ran me through a one on one yeah.

Aetsch: 8:29

What's that? Yeah, I said through all that.

Andrew: 8:31

It sounds like you were the only committed one to it.

Aetsch: 8:34

That's how it felt, um, but then he ran me through a one on one uh campaign with a DMPC to kind of teach me the ropes, um. And then we had another friend join, and then another friend joined and it became a group for about two or three years, consistently from the beginning, that I would eventually want to become a DM, because I am huge on games. I'm huge on game rules and understanding how games work. And so I was, you know, a rule of Nazi that's what all my friends call me when we play games. And I was like well, this seems like the perfect fit. I'm also a writer and a creator, so like, naturally. So like, this just makes sense. And he's like whoa, so your role, you're not ready for that yet. Learn the game. And I was like you're right, though you're right, I don't want to bite off more than I can chew, so I do that a lot. So, and then, eventually, after two years of playing, I started writing my own campaign because I was inspired. And he was like okay, let's try it.

Andrew: 9:32

And we did Cool. That's really cool. So do you remember your first character that you created for D&D?

Aetsch: 9:41

Oh my God, that was so embarrassed. I do this was a port for the 3.5 game that he ran me through. It was a port from the Pathfinder character I had made and I bit off more than I could chew. She was dual class and dual race.

Andrew: 9:56

Wow, that's cool.

Aetsch: 9:57

I made her. What did I make her? A changeling drow, rogue witch. Wow, it was a bit much. How do you keep? How do you keep track of it?

Andrew: 10:07

Then I went to a druid Nice, how do you keep track of? I mean, I know a lot of people multi-class, but multi-race, multi-class all at the same time.

Aetsch: 10:19

For your first character is and porting from Pathfinder to 3.5, which is a huge difference in like skills and points and experience. It was a nightmare.

Andrew: 10:31

I can imagine who's your current character. So you went from that. Who's your current character. What are you playing now?

Aetsch: 10:40

I have one druid of the stars who is the party weed and shroom supplier Excellent, she has a bag of growing and I have a water genasi swashbuckler rogue and a pirate campaign, and I have a druid of the land, I think in another campaign.

Andrew: 11:05

Cool, oh nice, I think I'm one of the she's heavily traumatized.

Andrew: 11:12

Yeah, I'm currently playing a tiefling warlock, which is one I just started playing, and I've got a mountain door fighter that I try to like pick and choose things that I haven't played before, cause I've never. My first character was a human wizard, so I like the spellcaster. I started playing a bunch of melee fighter like melee characters and one of my favorites was a monk. I like playing the monk, but there's so many options and it's just I don't know Like. I just like to try different combinations and see.

Aetsch: 12:02

I keep wanting to try new classes there's so many I haven't tried yet, but I keep ending up a druid, because I'm, you know, one of the more experienced players at some of these tables and oftentimes an add into the table, and what they need is utility and druid honestly has the best utility and variety. They can be the tank, they can be the support, they can be DPS, they can be stealthy, they can be a healer Like. They're just so much better for when you're joining a group and they have a lot of roles that aren't being filled.

Aetsch: 12:32

I think a lot of I end up with a druid.

Andrew: 12:34

Yeah, a lot of parties tend to forget to include like a druid type character. It's they all-.

Aetsch: 12:41

Mercidile.

Andrew: 12:43

Yeah, they all want to get in and fight but they forget that you know you might need a healer or they're just you know they tend to. I think a lot of people just tend to think of the battle part of D&D and not the rest of the campaign.

Aetsch: 12:59

Yeah, you might need a mount to get somebody who's hurt out of there. Druid works great for that too.

Andrew: 13:04

Mm-hmm. Yeah, there's a lot of good, like you said, a lot of good utility to a druid. So let me ask you this question so you've been? So you said you were been playing D&D for what about six years, is that?

Aetsch: 13:21

Yeah, give or take about a year a little less than a year after Muteer Got it.

Andrew: 13:29

So, out of all that playing that you've done, are there any? So we've talked about some of your characters, your memorable characters. Are there any memorable moments that have that jump out to you in that time? What jumps out to you that you remember playing?

Aetsch: 13:47

There was this one campaign I was playing with my brother online. He was the DM and I was playing a Kalashhtar, barbarian Druid and we were doing I think it was. I don't remember what the name of the campaign was, but it was like Rise. I think it was the Rise of Tiamat. We did the Tyranny of Dragons, like that whole trilogy, and at the final, when Tiamat was trying to elevate out of the ground to manifest, we were obviously fighting a bunch of minions and stuff, of course, because final fight, crazy stuff going on. I don't remember who it was, but one of our players, in genius moment, popped up a dome. I think it might have been I don't think it was Tiny Hut, but I can't remember the name of the spell but popped up this dome above where she was trying to raise out to just put her in a time out while we dealt with the minions and it made the final fight so much easier, that's amazing.

Andrew: 14:55

I love that. So much easier, oh it was ingenious.

Aetsch: 14:59

It was probably one of the first moments I saw that kind of out of the box thinking. I mean there was always some when it came to exploration and stealth and stuff like that but that was like major. I was like whoa that is. I can't believe that worked.

Andrew: 15:14

That's. That's. That's terrific. I love. I love when spells like that, when you have the spell, you're like I don't know how I'm going to use this. How I'm going to use this, but I have it, that's right, and then something like that happens and you're like thank God, I had that spell.

Aetsch: 15:33

Oh, it made the fight so much easier and we all survived.

Andrew: 15:36

Well, that's there you go. That's fantastic. I love it. It's there's just there's so many again it's the out of the box thinking it's. I love, I love how, how D&D really develops that skill for for people to really Absolutely.

Andrew: 15:55

And creatively. It's, it's, it's. I've been, I've done a couple episodes now we talked about like D&D and therapy and education and and how and how you know these, how people build these skills while while playing D&D. So it's, it's really fun to to see those kinds of moments when, when, when, when you do something that especially when it surprises the DM, and they're like oh, I didn't think about that, yeah.

Aetsch: 16:28

Oh, I have those moments in my campaign all the time. So you, all the time I had I had last week I had a, a dungeon that was it's one of my proud mo, one of my proud dungeons, and it's supposed to change arena. It's like a dual thing. And it's supposed to change arena for every opponent on the party and the opposite of their favor. So, like the rogue gets like no hiding places, it's just a gravel field, things like that. But only one of my players got to do this, ended up beating the guy in the first like round because it's supposed to take the whole party, like little by little, inching this guy down one at a time. They never got to see the arena change, he just pushed him in some lava. I was like, oh cool, I'm so proud of you. And after session I told him how it was supposed to work and he was like, oh, that's so cool, I'm sorry. I'm like, no, don't be sorry, I'm going to wreck your shit next week, it's fine.

Andrew: 17:20

That's right.

Aetsch: 17:22

And I did.

Andrew: 17:23

Let's see, as a DM, you spend all that time building, creating and setting something up, and then it is completely bypassed, the whole thing. You're like, oh, come on.

Aetsch: 17:36

But it's fine, because I'm not the last time I'm going to run the dungeon. It's not the last time I'm going to run this campaign. Last campaign, last time, I ran this with that original group. They ended up going through each and every player before the final one was able to defeat him, so they got to see it. It's just. It's interesting to watch the two different groups play the same campaign, though.

Andrew: 17:56

I can imagine it's. We've some of the people in my group have played, played parts of different groups and have played the same campaign, and it's always interesting to see how it, how it plays out differently. Let me ask you this question, so, thinking about so. So so again, our podcast is where we try we try to welcome new people into DND and things like that. So let's, so let me ask you this question. So we talked about kind of your introduction into the India as a player and we've talked a little bit about how you've gotten into being a DM. But how, what would you recommend for someone that maybe has been playing a little bit and they, they have that creative spirit. They really might be interested in becoming a DM and running a campaign on their own. What some advice you would give to to that person who, who now has a flavor for for playing DND, really likes it and now kind of wants to take it to a different level and and run their own campaign?

Aetsch: 19:06

The first thing this is not a reference book. This needs to be read, actually read the book.

Andrew: 19:14

A lot of people use it as a guide, by the way, so that's yeah, yes, the Dungeon Masters guide.

Aetsch: 19:20

Yes, actually read it, it does. It does help. I started out just using it as a reference and I was missing so many things. I find it very difficult to read nonfiction, so I'm still working my way through it. But my first piece of advice read that book. Second piece Get a group of trusted people that you know like, people that you trust, friends that want to play, maybe one person that has played or DM'd before to, and they know ahead of time that you're trying it out. For the first time, I had a DM in my corner at my table who was there when I needed help. I also had my boyfriend who had DM'd before. He was kind of like my assistant DM. He was there to look up rules while I was navigating the table, so I didn't have to worry about that. That really helped.

Aetsch: 20:11

As far as world like, if you're going to homebrew, for the love of God, do your best to stay organized, because I lose notes better for things that are just. I just write it on a piece of paper and then, like a week later, I have to go through 15 pieces of paper and go okay, this goes here, this goes, and then I lose things. But really honestly, just do it. You're going to mess up the first few times. You're going to make mistakes. You're going to make rulings that aren't popular. You're going to make rulings that are against the rules. It's going to happen Just as with any other mistake. Just be like, okay, all right, now I've learned and don't do it again. Or do it again because it's your table and you decided that that raw, that rules is written, wasn't working.

Andrew: 21:00

So would you recommend? Honestly, it's just about vaulting.

Aetsch: 21:03

Oh sorry, no, no, no, go ahead please. It's just about stepping over that fence and just doing it, just letting the nerves, like acknowledging that you're nervous or scared, but then doing it anyway.

Andrew: 21:16

Would you, would you recommend? If somebody is going to DM, would you recommend them using one of the prebuilt campaigns to start?

Aetsch: 21:25

or or. For me that depends on how your brain works. I try to run a module. I tried to run two different modules. I tried to do loss of Fendelver and I tried to do called another deep. My brain cannot follow how those books are organized. It just doesn't. I missed a lot of information and then I would have to go back and retcon things or find a way to rewrite it. So I didn't have to retcon and it just my brain didn't work with the way they're set up. So I only do homebrew. But I mean, it really depends on how your brain works. If you try, I would ideally yeah, you'd like to run a prewritten module first and you kind of get an idea of how they run and how they progress and how leveling works and things like that. But sometimes it just doesn't work for your brain.

Andrew: 22:15

So let me ask you this question. This is, this is this is what I'm currently thinking. So so you're, you're a big fan of Doctor who, as as am I. What, what, what, how would a Doctor who homebrew D&D campaign work? I mean, because you've got some pondering this for a while. You've got some great enemies. You got the Cybermen, you got the Daleks. You've got you got the Master or Missy, you've got some, some great, some great baddies to to fight against.

Aetsch: 22:52

You know, not to mention all the companions that have just gone home.

Andrew: 22:56

Yeah, you've got. You got that, like I could see. I could see some of the concepts of like spell jammer working, like the space travel and things like that, and and you've got a TARDIS, so you've. You've got a, you've got a ship to travel in. So I mean, why why not? Because I was just so the reason, the reason I was thinking this, because I just saw, I just got an ad on Instagram for they're they're doing a Doctor who Magic the Gathering card set and I'm like, I'm like why why hasn't someone? Maybe they have, maybe I just haven't seen it, but I would. I would love to see a Doctor who themed D&D campaign.

Aetsch: 23:41

I have looked on the Internet for this and well, actually it was because I was creating this, that campaign that has the traumatized druid sheet. That campaign has had two other characters for me. One of them went to the dark side and I lost control of her, and one of them was meant to be a short guest spot, was a Ken Koo who only spoke in Doctor who quotes. And when I was looking up things for this Ken Koo, to build this Ken Koo, I found out that a lot of people don't want to use, like the TARDIS overpowered, the doctor, severely overpowered. But interestingly enough, I found out, because of roll 20 and their little drop down box of all their games, I found out there actually is a Doctor who TTRPG called Doctor who Time and Space. I have yet to check it out. I have a friend who has the books but I just haven't had time to read them. Interesting, but yeah, there's actually a TTRPG specifically for Doctor who.

Andrew: 24:42

So I would love I could see like the doctor has been captured or kidnapped and see a bunch of the companions team.

Aetsch: 24:53

One shot. I could easily see One shot. I could easily see A longer campaign might be difficult. And here's the number one reason why Time, time travel the DM will go crazy Because time travel trying to record all I have in my campaign now, I have a weird timey-wimey thing going on. They're from one plane, they're in another plane. Time doesn't work the same way in that other plane. It works the same way but like, their calendar is different, their years are longer and things like that. So when they go back to their home plane, I have three separate calendars that I made for each of these places to keep track of where they're at and what time is passed in this other plane. That gets really complicated. So that might be why people don't do it.

Andrew: 25:43

I was going to say, depending on how in depth you get, it could get very complicated, I could imagine, but a one shot would be a lot of fun. I think that would be interesting.

Aetsch: 25:56

So fun.

Andrew: 25:58

Yeah, I'll have to think about that. I might have to work on that now. Just one more thing. That's the list, right? So you talk a lot about world building, so what's your process like for creating a new environment? How do you start, what are some of the things that you need to consider when doing that and what's your process on doing that?

Aetsch: 26:36

Well, I've built. When I say built, I mean they're in progress, because it's never really done. But I've built three worlds myself. One is for my magical realism genre book series that I'm writing. One is for another book series I want to write which is more high fantasy. Well, high fantasy, I don't know, it's fantasy. And then I've got my D&D world, which I'm currently building sort of loosely from the Forgotten Realms, but I want to make it my own, so I'm trying to change enough stuff. Honestly, every single one has started differently.

Aetsch: 27:14

The one for my magical realism books started with the world as it was in 2020. So I was like okay, so we're in this world, except there's also this other part that was hidden from the rest of the world, and so I only had to build out like half of that. I had to figure out what kind of magic system I was going to have. There are some great videos on YouTube on figuring out your hard or soft magic systems. I had to figure out what kind of creatures or races that we didn't already know about were going to be in the world and then figuring out where they're from and do they have their own communities? Do they live in and amongst the humans. So that's where that one started. My second world started on a more physics kind of basis. I knew that I wanted sort of like George Lucas planet. It's very temperate zone for the majority of the planet, mostly forests. There is no water in the forest but a river and that whole concept. But it started with the planetary portion of it. I was like, okay, so if I want this to be temperate, how would that work? And I actually had a really long conversation with a friend of mine who was a science nerd and we actually discussed how that could actually exist in the universe. So I have a giant planet in two smaller white dwarf suns that orbit directly opposed to one another to make this happen. And then from there it went into the cultures and things like that what exists within that temperate forest, what exists on the poles, et cetera.

Aetsch: 28:51

This D&D world started with D&D. It started with the Forgotten Realms. I was like, okay, but I don't want to keep using their lore. I don't, but I'm so lore centric that I can't use a setting that has lore and not use the lore. So I was like I just need to make my own. And it started. Who did that one actually start. Oh, started with Sigil. My campaign when I originally wrote it used the Forgotten Realms, and Sigil is a big, big part of it. It's their sort of hub for the main of the campaign. Well, I changed it and I made Nexus. It's similar to Sigil but it's very different in a lot of ways. And then I'm all over the place when it comes to world building. Once I get started, it's all over the place. I've got this, but I, the cultures are okay.

Aetsch: 29:47

In D&D, one of the biggest things you have to decide is like are your cultures separate by race or are they separate by culture? Because Forgotten Realms, the Drow, live underground and the Orcs and the Half Orcs and everything are over here. And the Elves had their own communities and some of them are mixed, but for the majority of the time they're from their own race. But they might have a world where you've got, where they're more mixed than that. What point in the world's development are we spotlighting here? Are we spotlighting when they're brand new on this planet or after they've mixed and mingled for 500 to 5000 years? And then I just go from there Like I'm like okay, I need a faction. All right, let's make a faction. Oh crap, this player wants to be from this, it wants to be this thing. I haven't decided what that area of the world is yet, so let's figure this out.

Aetsch: 30:38

I build a lot as I go, but one of the other questions you had sent me that actually kind of lends into this was about resources, and I'm sure we'll get back to that later. But one of the resources I use that really helped me propel the direction of my world building was Asgard's map. I had this random map and then I was just like okay, let me be inspired by this map and figure out what's going where, and that helped a lot. Nice, because there's so many details within it. Like you click on a city and you can put in there the number. Like you've got populations, you've got the square mileage, you've got the, you know cultures and the religions. The mapping has all of that in there and you can edit all of it.

Andrew: 31:27

Wow, and where could we?

Aetsch: 31:29

put that that's completely free. I Google Asgard A-Z as G-A-A-R apostrophe S.

Andrew: 31:37

Okay, excellent. Yeah, I will also put it in the show notes for everyone else so they can find that too. Yeah, so let's dive into that, let's talk about what other resources are there that you have used, and for other people who are considering building their kind of, their home brews, their own worlds, et cetera.

Aetsch: 32:06

Asgard is a big one, so off of Asgard there is if you click on a city within Asgard, you can actually. There's an icon where you can click on a map. It'll take you to another site, the name of which I forget at the moment. That will let you build the city map and it will already have it built to match your map. Oh, wow.

Aetsch: 32:26

Like that area where that city is on the big map, so it'll have like you can adjust the walls and stuff, though you can adjust everything. It's a little complicated but totally doable and totally free. And then through Asgard as well within the city thing, you can actually create a little code of arms through another website, I think it's called Armonia, and it will link to the map and it'll show the code of arms for that city. It's really cool.

Andrew: 32:49

Oh wow, that is really cool.

Aetsch: 32:52

I use D100 lists a lot. Now they're all over Reddit and stuff, but there's an actual website. I may have to look that up for you, but I just Google D100 lists and it comes up. Uh, boop, boop, boop. D&d Speak, d&d, speak. D100 lists. I use those a lot. If I don't, I generally don't copy directly from it because I am wanting to publish one day, but I do use it for inspiration, for, like trinkets books. I mean, they have everything on there. There's so many lists on there for like band wizard tomes, library books, cursed trinkets, dragon, like things you would find in a dragon horde. It's just, there's so so many lists on there, it's invaluable. What else do I use? That's great. That's super useful. That's great. Okay, I lost all my bookmarks on old computers so I have to find them all again, but those are the ones I've been using regularly. I'm the one that's late, late.

Andrew: 33:57

I keep so many tabs open on my browser.

Aetsch: 34:00

You should One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, 10, 11. I'm at 13 right now.

Andrew: 34:07

Excellent, excellent. I can't even read my tabs. It's just like the little icons. It's your brain, that's right. It's an easy way to remember what's what. Yeah, you mentioned a little bit about oh and.

Aetsch: 34:28

Homebrewery. Oh my God. I write my campaigns on Homebrewery Okay, homebrewerynaturalcritcom or something, but basically I can put all of my campaign stuff in there like it's a campaign book, and then when I'm ready for session I can just go to that section and follow it.

Andrew: 34:49

Oh cool.

Aetsch: 34:50

Oh, very nice For the visual people, because I'm a visual person, I got to see it like it's official.

Andrew: 34:59

I'm the same way, like I have to. I've got to be able to see it, to put it all together. No, so tell me this oh, yes, oh, there's more, oh, but wait, there's more.

Aetsch: 35:12

The biggest one. The biggest one is Google. I am. All of my notes are on Google Drive. I have folders for each of my PCs. I have folders for each city and then under the city, I have folders for the factions or the neighborhoods, the districts, you know important NPCs, and it's super organized. So it's really easy to find and it's just. You can share the file with somebody Like if you need to, if you've got somebody that's helping you build a particular city out for their backstory or whatever.

Aetsch: 35:41

That is the only way I've been able to keep track of everything. Yes, I can have everything on my externals or on the computer, but those do crash Google Drive. I can't tell you how many times I've been out of the house, not near my computer and somebody's been like asking me a question about my world building, and I can go on my phone and just go Google Drive and just here, there it is, so that one is my absolute number one recommended. People ask all the time how you back up your notes, how do you keep track of your notes? That's how it's Google. I use the sheets, I use the drives, I use the folders, everything.

Andrew: 36:13

It's super useful too. Everything is cloud-based, it's. They've got Google Docs, google Sheets. They just have the whole file structure. So it's a great and if you run out of room.

Aetsch: 36:27

Get another email address right.

Andrew: 36:29

Or you could. If you really want to pay for it, you could always. I mean, they're happy to sell you more storage space If you ever needed it, so tell me this. So you mentioned briefly that you are also a writer and you're writing something, so tell us a little bit about what you're writing. Tell us how has D&D influenced that writing and how has your writing influenced what you do on the D&D side?

Aetsch: 37:01

So I've been writing for most of my life, here and there just random stuff, mostly poetry and high school. I started writing a book when I was in college. I abandoned that for 10 years because somebody convinced me I was never going to be good at it Somebody who was important to me. And eventually I got into a relationship with somebody who was like you just need to figure out what you want to do. Like, yeah, you have all these things you like, but you need to make a decision, choose one and go with it. And I was like, okay, writing, I'm going to go with that.

Aetsch: 37:34

Five years later, I'm still writing the same damn book, but essentially I'm writing a series that focuses on a few very important key themes. One is that we are all the villain in someone's story and we are all the heroes in our own, like it just happens. And so I'm taking this concept of the duality of evil and good and I'm applying it to this sort of like our world, like the mythos kind, have been hiding away for all this time because it's not safe with humans the way they are, and I mean there's biblical, like I use the flood. I just kind of rewrite it a little bit. You know, like I use a lot of mythology from a lot of different things, because in my world all of these things that we thought, like these fantastic creatures that we know of, did exist at one point, and they still do in my world. So, but there's this like sort of the mythos kind of decided humans that have destroyed the earth for two in long and they're taking it back over.

Aetsch: 38:48

Lord of the Rings is the beginning of the age of man. This is the beginning of the end of the age of man, and there's just two factions that are very much in disagreement about how to go about taking over the planet. One wants to eradicate the humans and one is like we can find an alternative that doesn't eradicate an entire species, and you know genocide and all that. But there's a lot of moral questions on both sides, and so I'm trying to tell the stories separately and let the readers decide who the antagonists and protagonists are, hopefully to spark that sort of literary discussion.

Andrew: 39:24

Right.

Aetsch: 39:26

Yeah, so that's the series I'm primarily working on, which has a lot more beyond those. Those are just the first few books, but we'll see how has it inspired my D&D? I mean, it's that and my love for rules of board games is what created my obsession with D&D. To be honest, you know, being able to put the two together is just perfect for me.

Aetsch: 39:58

And then D&D honestly, the reason I haven't finished those books yet is because once I started DMing, I started realizing why I'm weak on supposed villains or antagonists. It's because I always want to be on the good guy side and I'm too nice of a person and all this happy go, lucky shit that, like I wasn't writing good antagonists, I wasn't writing good bad boys, I wasn't writing good morally questionable people, because I just don't expose myself to those kind of people, because I don't like that energy. Right. But playing D&D and, more importantly, running D&D, where I have to make players feel a certain way in certain situations to get the story going, it has really helped my perspective on writing villains, or I'll say baddies for a lesser version. Right, and honestly, I don't know if I would have elevated my writing if it weren't for D&D.

Andrew: 40:59

Interesting. That's a really good point. Yeah, I mean that's. I think it's. I think a lot of people, when they play D&D, get to, can potentially play somebody that is kind of antithetical to who they are as a person. So it's probably really if you want to play or learn how to write an antagonist or a villain or a perspective that you are not of.

Aetsch: 41:36

Yeah, absolutely.

Andrew: 41:37

It's a great way to develop a different perspective, because we've had some in campaigns, we've had chaotic, evil people that are just that's nowhere near who they are. But it's an interesting way to play because you get to. You really have to change your whole mindset as far as that's concerned, because it's just not. It's not who we, who most of us are.

Aetsch: 42:12

That's great. Yeah, actually, my first character, my DM, he's like play somebody that's closer to what you are. He said knowing you, your natural alignment is probably neutral good. And he said play neutral good for a little while, get used to the game playing as you are. Now this is the kind of person that he just plays himself, but in a D&D setting, and he's perfectly fine with that, which rubs me the wrong way sometimes, but it's fine. But then once I started branching out and trying to play something just slightly different than me, like I played somebody who was an avid drinker. I haven't drank now in like six years, I just don't like it. But I played an avid drinker. I'm like, oh yep, she's swinging from her thing, she's swinging from her thing. She had a never ending bottle like a water, an ale skin oh nice, ever filling ale skin, just constantly drinking it. I don't know. I just I have to play so many characters being able to expand beyond your own personality. It really does expand the perspective with which we understand the world.

Aetsch: 43:21

It certainly does, I think helps me in my day to day life, dealing with people.

Andrew: 43:25

Right, I was just going to say I think there's a lot of people out there that could benefit from getting a perspective other than their own.

Aetsch: 43:35

Absolutely Most people, actually pretty much everybody.

Andrew: 43:43

Absolutely, it's just, it's the ad. You know, unless you walk a mile in someone's shoes, you have no idea what they are going through. So that's the be kind, yes.

Aetsch: 44:00

Above all, be kind. There's my doctor who quoted the day.

Andrew: 44:04

That's right, so tell me more. So let's go back to the NPCs. What are some of the NPCs that you've created? So I know it's only been two months. You said you'll because you've only had the page for two months. So give us an idea as to what are some of the NPCs you've created and how people could use them in their campaigns.

Aetsch: 44:33

So last month I did the Lazy Turtle Tavern pack and essentially each pack comes with five to 10 NPCs. I didn't want to limit myself on an exact number because some of them might not need that many or some might need more. I think with the Tavern pack there were seven in the original pack. So that pack came with a bar tender or a proprietor, a barmaid, I think, a cook God, now I'm forgetting because I'm working on the next pack. I think it came with three frequent patrons and a bard that was the other one, a bard and so like each page. Now there's two tiers. The commoner tier is the $5 a month, so that one comes with like a half page for each character which is like a little paragraph about them. There's like, at the top I've got quick facts and what they have on their person as far as like loodable items, and then I have traits and motivations right underneath that. What are their main personality traits and what are their main motivations, a small blurb and then a quick image for just reference purposes and then which stat block to use and what changes to make to it. A quote from the character, and I think that's it for the commoner package.

Aetsch: 45:52

But then the adventurer tier gets a full page and it gets more blurb. You get a box with related NPCs. It'll have like the name, the role in their life or the relation to them and then, like quick, a quick one line blurb about, like, the situation or their relationship. You get a blurb about their residents, where they live and any items they may have that's loodable there, and a quest hooker too, for each character.

Aetsch: 46:20

And then the adventurer tier also gets a page about the actual location. So they got a page about the tavern with a couple of quest hooks for the tavern itself, and then each week there's a free NPC that goes out, that goes with the pack that everybody has access to, just to give somebody a. So it's like it's a whole tavern. They're ready to go and you can add or take out whatever you like. Like one of the frequent patrons in that one is a Thieves Guild member and so, like he acts, he really likes this tavern. So he acts as security for the tavern, but he also uses it as a recruiting ground. If he sees somebody stealing through somebody else and they're doing it well enough, he will recruit them to the Thieves Guild.

Andrew: 47:02

Very nice.

Aetsch: 47:03

So, and then of course there's, like you know, the bartender is in love with the other one, but he hasn't told her and, like you know, little drama stuff in there too.

Andrew: 47:13

That's great. I love the kind of the richness to the background of the environment. That's really great. It's more so than what you'd get from you having to come up with that stuff, you know, on the fly. So that's super helpful for those that might not have that kind of creative mindset.

Aetsch: 47:38

to the the biggest trick is trying to balance out giving the DM enough that they don't have to do a bunch of work, but also leaving enough vagueness so that they can add and change as they like. Walking that line that's the hard part.

Andrew: 47:52

Oh, for sure. So what's the? So can you, can you give us a glimpse into what, what the next NPC pack is going to be?

Aetsch: 48:04

Well, this month was a monster pack, something we tried a little different because my girlfriend's really into monster stuff and she wanted to help me, so I let her take a lead on that. So it's a monster pack. It's got like a whole new like. It's got some new mechanics with it. It's like the realm of dreams has been twisted and corrupted, and here's how and why. I think the next one after that is a library. We got the spring solace library coming out in November, which is really interesting.

Aetsch: 48:33

I've got a couple of favorites in that pack. One of them in particular is a child prodigy in the realm of languages and is trying to invent sign language. And then after that, I mean I've got a whole list right here in front of me, like it's. It's on a dry race for it's long list. I don't know that I'm going to be doing themed packs for months other than this. This Halloween one I did this month just because it's a lot of pressure. But I might do something for Christmas, I don't know or for, like winter solace this idea it's going to be a festival pack. I don't know, I haven't figured that one out yet.

Andrew: 49:08

Nice. Oh, that's great. Yeah, I know where I'm. Like I said, I'm in the midst of building my, my campaign, and I'm I may do you do take commissions. Let me ask you that question.

Aetsch: 49:23

I haven't thought about that yet, but I suppose that something could definitely be worked out, yeah.

Andrew: 49:29

Okay, I will, I will keep that in mind.

Aetsch: 49:34

That was one thing I did want to work up to is I got a hair up my ass one day and I was like I wonder, and I went over to Fiverr and I was like world building, and wouldn't you know there are people on Fiverr who actually build worlds for people. Yeah. So like one day maybe that'll be me, but I don't know, because I still want to do my novels and I still want to DMs. I don't know if I have time for all that, but right, right.

Andrew: 49:55

So I'm to consider yeah, you've already. You've already got a lot on your plate, so that's, I don't know.

Aetsch: 50:00

I do my best when I've got a lot on my plate.

Andrew: 50:03

Oh well, there you go, then take, take on more, why not?

Aetsch: 50:06

That's the narrow divergency.

Andrew: 50:08

I'm. I'm the same when I've got less to do, I get lazy. Yeah, I, yeah, I can come completely relate to that. Let me think of what else? So, let's, so, so, let's, let's, let's diverge, and let's, let's talk, let's talk, all things. Doctor, who for a second? So have you have? You, have you watched the latest trailers for, for the anniversary special? What's, what's your thought? What's your thought, tell me.

Aetsch: 50:50

First of all, I love NPH and I am so glad that he was able to be added to the doctor who universe. Yes, and I think I'd now mind you you're you're going to hate me for this, but I have not watched classic who yet. I started with the ninth doctor and I keep wanting to go back to old who, but like it's such bad TV that like I need somebody to do it with me and I haven't found that person. But the part where she's like, where Donna was, like the TARDIS ran away, something so bad. The TARDIS ran away and it's like in the trailer, it's such a like moment, like you're not, you don't even have that context of the episode yet and it's just like.

Aetsch: 51:31

But then I'm like the TARDIS has run away a few times, though the TARDIS ran to the end of time to try and get away from Jack, but like NPH looks scary as a toy maker, like he really does, Like this is gonna be good, this is gonna be really good. And I wanna know how Donna doesn't. How does she not get fried when she remembers? That's the biggest question.

Andrew: 51:56

I-.

Aetsch: 51:57

That's the biggest question I have right now.

Andrew: 51:58

I know, I know there are a lot, of, a lot of questions and I'm very excited. I'm very excited about the next doctor coming up, so-.

Aetsch: 52:14

Oh, Shruti Gatwa, I can't wait. Have you watched sex education on Netflix?

Andrew: 52:20

Yes, I have, I'm a huge fan, so I am, i-, I and it was funny. We just, we literally just watched Barbie the other night And-. I didn't yet I had no idea he was in it. He's oh he is.

Aetsch: 52:37

Is he one of the cats? Yes, oh my God, now I have more reason to watch it. No, I was like, oh my.

Andrew: 52:44

God, I'm so like, I am just, I am over the moon that David Tenon's coming back for for, even even a little bit Like I'm just so you know, I have a theory about that too.

Aetsch: 52:57

Do tell. I think the face returned because Donna's in trouble. Now I don't know, like I haven't figured out the specifics around, like why that might be or how he might have. The doctor might have known, but I don't know. I just I just got this feeling that he he revisits that face because Donna's in trouble.

Andrew: 53:17

Interesting. I we're we will find out soon, I hope.

Aetsch: 53:24

It was, I think. We don't have a date yet. They're like November, november, that's next month. Where's the date Right?

Andrew: 53:31

I it's a lot, but I'm just, I'm so thrilled like-.

Aetsch: 53:35

And it's on Disney Plus now.

Andrew: 53:37

so yes or will be yes. I'm just there's just oh yeah, to have, like I'm just Not much, I mean. I mean Shreddy's gonna well, I mean his episodes aren't gonna be until 2020.

Aetsch: 53:51

The new year or Christmas or something, yeah.

Andrew: 53:54

So so we're gonna have to wait even longer for that. So there's just, there's just so much going on. I'm, I'm, so. I was so bummed. We were supposed to we're going to New York Comic Con next, next week, next week. We're going to New York Comic Con next week. Jody Whitaker was supposed to be there. There was gonna be, there was gonna be a team-up photo of her and David Tennant, and I was so excited to to get to, to get to meet her, and then she had to bail for some reason. I don't know if it was a filming conflict or what it was, but she wasn't, she wasn't able to come. So we've we've met Palmer, david Tennant. We've met, we've met Matt Smith, john Barrowman, who was who, he is a sweetheart we had, we used to have, we had a cat that's name was Captain Jack Harkness. That was, that was the cat's name.

Andrew: 54:55

I mean Jack for short, but it's adorable yeah, of course His name was Captain Jack Harkness and I know, I know I'm just I'm so thrilled to finally get some some Dr Hubek. I was. I was a little disappointed with with some of the stuff when from from Jody Whitaker, but not not because of Jody Whitaker, I thought Wasn't her fault. I thought she was a good doctor. I thought I thought so. I thought the writing was was really, was really weak and did not do her justice. I feel like some of the storylines I thought were a little heavy handed and it was just it was not up to what I was, what I was used to for for Dr Hubek.

Aetsch: 55:41

Yeah, and a lot, a lot of people. The entire fandom was completely split down, almost down the middle when it came to her tenure. And again, I don't think it's her fault, I don't even think the writing was really that bad. It just wasn't right for her.

Andrew: 55:55

Yeah.

Aetsch: 55:56

Like for her as an actress, like the writing and her acting, it just didn't jive well. I think I still enjoyed the seasons, cause it's Dr who and like can I really do better than that? Like Woo-hoo, but like I still enjoyed them. But yeah, I just don't think it messed real well with with her, which is which is which is a real bummer, because I know her and Chris Chibnall really kind of were like close on that and and I don't know. I just I think she, I didn't, I don't think she got a fair shake either way.

Andrew: 56:32

I thought her last season was really good. All right, what was the I can't remember what the what it was called Timeless child. Yeah, it was just that that part I thought was really good. It was like a short, it was almost more like a mini series oh yeah, yeah, the yeah Like the mini series.

Aetsch: 56:51

Yeah, yes, that I think that was a really really good arc. I enjoyed that a lot.

Andrew: 56:56

Name same. That I thought, was much better than the, than the.

Aetsch: 56:59

I gotta rewatch it again actually.

Andrew: 57:02

Yeah, I'm just I'm.

Aetsch: 57:04

I'm excited for more hoes and then I'm just really excited to have RTD back, Like when they announced that it was the morning of my birthday, so it felt like a birthday present and like RTD is coming back and I'm like no way.

Aetsch: 57:16

But he he's also promised that like we're not going to have these long breaks from the show anymore. Right, he's talked about doing spin-offs, like Marvel style spin-offs, which I am super excited about and I think more franchises should be doing. Like, cause there's so many shows and and fandoms where I have, like I want to see the ancillary character story. I want to see what led them to this main story. Like, like this is going to sound really dumb, but Fresh Prince of Valera, I want Jeffery's story. I want Jeffery the Butler's story. I want to know how he came to be in their service and like what he did in his youth. Like I want his story and I think a lot of shows are starting to pick up on that. But RTD is definitely like on top of that shit, cause he's talking about like a whole unit series and I'm like, yes, please give me more. I wanted more class, I wanted more torchwood, I wanted more everything.

Andrew: 58:09

Oh, for sure, For sure, yeah, there's just I really hope they I would. I would love for an expanded Doctor who universe of just of just more content. Like I love I'm not a fan of all of it, I mean, I'm a big, I'm a big Star Trek fan, big Star Wars fan. I love, I love, just I love the fact that that Disney has expanded on. It's not just the movies. They tell a lot of other stories and I love a lot of those other stories, almost better than the, than the main ones, cause you really get to know a particular character and you really kind of, like you said, you get into the back.

Aetsch: 58:55

Get more lore, Like yeah.

Andrew: 58:57

Yeah that, that, that's.

Aetsch: 59:00

The reason I'm rewatching Star Wars is because I hadn't watched Clone Wars or Rebels or Bad Batch and I got to a Soka and I'm like, okay, I'm missing stuff. And then I watched them all and I was like, whoa, I had no idea how much I was missing in terms of lore, like there's so much Star Wars lore within those three animated shows, so much that fills in so many blanks. Yes, that I thought were plot holes or things that would be explained later and it turns out they were already explained. I just didn't watch it.

Andrew: 59:26

That was one of the. That was one of the best things my co-host did did for us was before a Soka came on. He says he's like we're going to watch Rebels. He's like you will thank me when a Soka comes out. And it was so true. I'm like, oh my God, now it's like this all makes sense, like I get why you had us watch that. Yeah.

Aetsch: 59:48

For sure. Yeah, because, like, I had watched the first couple episodes of Soka and I haven't finished Soka yet because I went back, but there was that one part, like it was the whole, like Sabine and like Ezra, and I'm like who the fuck is this Ezra guy Like? And then I went back and I watched and then, when it all clicked in my head the whales, the Ezra, the Thrawn, like it all clicked. I cried when it all clicked for me. And then, like, I went and watched Rogue One again last night and I was like, holy shit, I had like there was no impact for me watching the movie the first time when it came to Saw Gerrera's end Okay, no impact whatsoever. I had no idea who the character was Watching it. The second time, though, holy crap, I was like, wow, he's seen and been through so much and this, this is how he ends. So I mean like, oh man, I'm so glad I went back and rewatched.

Aetsch: 1:00:43

But that's why I like these ancillary shows, because it's an opportunity where you don't have to focus on just the immediate storyline. You can fill in some of that world building, some of that lore. And I do the same thing in my D&D campaigns, like when they have moments where they're just kind of fucking around or you know this and that, or you know somebody here is one of the NPC says something, and then I go, oh hey, you two actually grew up here, so why you actually know X, y and Z, and then you know, let them play through it. So like there's more like side quests and stuff to help fill in some of the lore, get them to know this area that they're supposedly from but they don't actually know as players.

Andrew: 1:01:25

Like I would.

Aetsch: 1:01:26

I would. I would love a movie.

Andrew: 1:01:29

I'd love the backstory of like Strahd Like I would love. I would love to know like how, how he like he became like who he is today, like that's just like the kind of stuff like I would love. I'd love some of that, but maybe one day we'll get that in DM.

Aetsch: 1:01:45

And Elmester growing up.

Andrew: 1:01:48

Uh-huh.

Aetsch: 1:01:49

There's like the kid of like kid as Elmester, like, oh, that'd be so interesting.

Andrew: 1:01:55

There's there. Yeah, there's just a tremendous amount of backstory and lore that I would love for for some of those D&D characters, like I would love to. Just I don't know you could.

Aetsch: 1:02:07

There's so much you could go into, but that's exactly why I plan in my series to like I plan on exploring those in novellas, like one of one of my main, one of my main characters. Her parents died pretty early into the story, but there's an entire novella that I have planned that is like how they met and how they ended up in the situation that they ended up in, because it does matter to the story. For people who care about the entire story Right Now it's not going to matter to the passing fan, but to the fans that are really, really into it can be really helpful.

Andrew: 1:02:50

Most definitely, most definitely. Yeah, I talked to. I interviewed somebody else who's a fantasy writer and she had produced a novella that I read. It's out on Amazon and I was like what happens to these characters? And she's like, well, they don't show up again until like book two or three. And she's like I haven't even published book one yet. I'm like what? Like I got to wait to book two and three to find out what happens.

Aetsch: 1:03:17

Well, it's kind of like I'm feeling my my author website my author website has this short story serial that I started doing.

Aetsch: 1:03:27

I kind of haven't done it in a while because I backed myself into a corner and figured it out yet, but it's essentially eight journal entries of this girl who is living in the world in what it becomes five years after the events of my first book that I'm still working on.

Aetsch: 1:03:44

It was meant I started doing this as a way to like garner interest in it, because when you're trying to build a following and you have nothing published, you can't publish what you're writing because somebody won't publish it then or like you're going to change it and all this other stuff. So I didn't know what to like put out there for people to follow. So I was like let me try these these little, these little serials. So it's this journal entry thing of her living in this post apocalyptic fantasy earth in like 2025, which we're getting really close to, but it's supposed it's like five years after the event. So it kind of alludes to how the world becomes, but not how it becomes that way and I think that that can be done. I just hope I can do that well.

Andrew: 1:04:31

I have faith. I have faith in you that you will All right. Well, we're, we're. I know we're running out of time here. Thank you, . Thank you so much for being on the podcast today. Do you have any any final parting words for for people, people interested in Dungeons and Dragons, people thinking about DMing, what, what, what, what are your, what are your final thoughts for, for our listeners today?

Aetsch: 1:04:58

Just do it. You're not going to regret it. Whether you're playing, dming, world building, writing, it's such a great outlet for so many things for anger, for love, for compassion, for getting a new perspective, for creativity, for exploring and inventiveness and even exploring a different part of yourself, like it's just, oh God, I cannot. Like I could go on for days about the benefits of playing D&D, but at any, at any, any angle you want to approach it, just do it. That's my biggest advice. Stop doing the well I would. If or there's there's a way to find players. As you know, there's online. There's, if you don't have a computer, there's text-based stuff, like there's always a way. Or, you know, just order the DMG and just put a group together. Be like we're playing, we're playing, we're playing. If you don't like it, I'll get somebody new, but we're playing.

Andrew: 1:05:53

That's right, absolutely Great advice. Again, thank you so much for being on the podcast. Thank you for having me. I'll make sure we put all the links to your Patreon, your, your, your writing, everything. We'll get it in the show notes so everybody can link to that and and find out more. So so thank you again. I really appreciate it.

Aetsch: 1:06:15

Thank you so much for having me. I hope you have a wonderful day.

Andrew: 1:06:27

Yeah.