Real Estate Tips That Will Protect Your Equity: Valuations, Repairs, and Advice on “Rightsizing.”
Oct 26, 2023Episode 19
Sherri Lund & Erica Sprague
Learn how to preserving your home's equity in probate as we dive into property valuation, downsizing, and more with Houston real estate expert Erica Sprague.
Join us in Episode 19 as we sit down with Erica Sprague, a seasoned real estate broker, to discuss key strategies for protecting your home's value before and during probate. Learn about property valuation, the challenges of rightsizing/downsizing, and when to make repairs or sell as-is. Whether you're dealing with a sibling's objections or considering working with a probate real estate agent, this episode will help you in your journey to safeguard your most significant asset!
About Erica Sprague
Erica Sprague, a Texas native, brings a wealth of experience to the world of real estate. After graduating from Texas A&M, she moved to Houston in 2004 and embarked on a diverse career journey that included youth sports coaching, teaching, and pharmaceutical sales. In 2009, Erica founded her own real estate business, utilizing her skills in communication, strategic planning, marketing, and technology to assist clients in navigating the complexities of real estate transactions. Erica is passionate about helping clients solve problems and streamline the process with minimal emotional stress. In her free time, she enjoys tennis, running, tending to her rose garden, and attending concerts with her two sports-loving boys.
Disclosure: The information shared on The Probate Podcast is for educational and informational purposes only and does not constitute legal or financial advice. We strongly recommend consulting with a professional for advice specific to your situation. If you need help finding a professional, feel free to reach out to us at www.willowwoodsolutions.com/contact.
Please consider kindly rating this show so others can find it!
Learn how to preserving your home's equity in probate as we dive into property valuation, downsizing, and more with Houston real estate expert Erica Sprague.
Join us in Episode 19 as we sit down with Erica Sprague, a seasoned real estate broker, to discuss key strategies for protecting your home's value before and during probate. Learn about property valuation, the challenges of rightsizing/downsizing, and when to make repairs or sell as-is. Whether you're dealing with a sibling's objections or considering working with a probate real estate agent, this episode will help you in your journey to safeguard your most significant asset!
About Erica Sprague
Erica Sprague, a Texas native, brings a wealth of experience to the world of real estate. After graduating from Texas A&M, she moved to Houston in 2004 and embarked on a diverse career journey that included youth sports coaching, teaching, and pharmaceutical sales. In 2009, Erica founded her own real estate business, utilizing her skills in communication, strategic planning, marketing, and technology to assist clients in navigating the complexities of real estate transactions. Erica is passionate about helping clients solve problems and streamline the process with minimal emotional stress. In her free time, she enjoys tennis, running, tending to her rose garden, and attending concerts with her two sports-loving boys.
Disclosure: The information shared on The Probate Podcast is for educational and informational purposes only and does not constitute legal or financial advice. We strongly recommend consulting with a professional for advice specific to your situation. If you need help finding a professional, feel free to reach out to us at www.willowwoodsolutions.com/contact.
Please consider kindly rating this show so others can find it!
hi there. This is Sherri Lund with the probate podcast and I'm so glad you're here today. We're going to be talking with Erica Sprague and she's my real estate broker and we're going to talk about probate and real estate. I want you to grab your pen and paper. If you have a favorite beverage, you can grab that too. You're going to want to take notes because Erica and I are both teachers at heart and we're going to share some things that you're going to want to refer back to and remember, moving forward. This podcast is part of my business, Willowwood Solutions that I formed this podcast to be a resource to our community, to help people become familiar with probate terms. to minimize the mystery of probate and start to normalize it as part of our conversation so that we can plan better and be less overwhelmed and stressed when we have to go through that season if it's our thing to do. Welcome and join me today as I visit with Erica. Erica, thanks so much for joining me. Yes, Sherri, thank you for having me. I'm looking forward to our conversation. I think this is our 1st time to actually be online together. Normally, we're in the same room with 1 another. So I'm glad that you're here. So let me tell you a little bit about Erica. Erica is a native Texan. She was born in Beaumont and raised in San Antonio. She's a proud graduate of Texas A& M University. And she moved to Houston in 2004. In her professional journey, Eric has been a coach of youth sports. She's taught in the school system. She was a pharmaceutical rep. And that eventually led all of that eventually led her to starting her real estate career in 2009. She took the communication, strategic planning, coordinating, marketing, technology, organizing, and facilitating skills. And she utilizes all of that to create her thriving business now in Northwest Houston, woodlands area, Montgomery County, you probably covered all. You'll go anywhere. Erica enjoys helping clients solve problems. A real estate transaction often has many moving parts and some sensitive pieces, and Erica does a great job of minimizing the emotions so that she can complete the task with a smooth transition. In her free time, Erica likes to run and play tennis. She likes to be outside. She recently started a rose garden and enjoys watching them mature and grow. Erica has two boys that are also involved in sports. They spend a great deal of time as a family at sporting events and enjoying concerts together. So that's interesting. What kind of concerts do y'all like to enjoy? Oh you know what? I'm doing my best to diversify their music education. So we, we enjoyed country music. We went to our first rap concert this summer. Okay. Okay. I'm branching out there for them. They're broadening their ears. Yes. But, we like to go to the, the concerts in the park that the woodlands have. And so you get a good variety. You get some 50s and 60s music. You get some bluegrass and jazz. So we just enjoy music. So that's fun. That's fun. That's fun. I see your boys on social media a lot and you're enjoying them and they're very active. It's fun. Yeah, they they keep it busy for sure. So we talked about how you've been in several industries, right? And how long have you been a broker? You started your real estate career in 2009, but when did you become a broker? And what is it about this field that you see you brought forward from your other industries specifically into this field. So I got my broker's license and 2021. so it's been a little over 2 years. It was August of 2021. The reason why I felt like it was a good fit is because naturally I'm a very responsible and accountable person. What I learned through the pharmaceutical Piece was, you're basically running your own company. You're just doing it for someone else. And so you're handling your budget, you're handling your marketing, you're handling all the scheduling pieces. And so I knew I could take that and implement that into my own business from coaching, coaching involves a lot of motivational skills, a lot of trying to get people to do things they maybe don't see the immediate benefit for, but it gets them to their goal. I knew I was, I would be able to take that piece and use that as well. And I'm entrepreneurial by heart. I enjoy starting and creating and developing things. And real estate was just. Something that made sense in order to be able to apply all those things. And so that's, that's how it led to there. You're also a leader in, in our local networking group, so you're also encouraging other female entrepreneurs in ways to better their business and that's also really helpful. This podcast is a resource for people that are going through probate that are looking for ideas, looking for solutions, looking for resources on how to make this process... You know, sometimes people don't even talk about probate until they find themselves neck deep in it. And then they're like, why didn't somebody tell me, or where can I go for resources? And so that's what this probate podcast is about. Can we talk a little bit about how real estate plays into probate and how the equity in the home a lot of times is a big piece, if not the biggest piece of someone's portfolio in their estate. Absolutely. Most of us understand in the real estate world that someone's home is usually their largest financial asset. And so when they pass away, the heirs they have possibly are, gaining that depending on the overall situation. It's a very important piece. When you are going to probate hopefully 1 of the things that exists is they have a will in place. And so that will can be probated and that simplifies things for the family and all the people who are left behind, and I think you're right. People get in the throes of it. And then they're left in a situation that maybe wasn't organized or planned as best as it could have been. I really encourage people and I go through this with in my own family with my parents, really, for the past 10 years, just really encouraging them to make a will, but people don't want to do that because when people think of making a will, they think of the inevitable time when they'll no longer be here. But what I really encouraged them to look at was that they're making a plan and they are alleviating a lot of this stress for the family members. They leave behind, which really if that will is in place so it can go through probate. It simplifies things greatly. For sure. For sure. What have you seen that is confusing for people when you compare property that's in real estate to a traditional property that say listed on the MLS, that's staged and pretty and ready to go for the top dollar on the market? You know, I would say, 1st off, they don't have to differ. I'd say every, every situation is unique. Many times when a family is taking over a property and is needing to sell it, they possibly don't live in town. If an elderly person has been living there on their own, potentially with limited income or resources to manage their household, then that property might need work that property might need attention cosmetically or mechanically. And if those people don't live in town, or if those family members don't have the resources to address those issues, or they don't have the time, whatever, whatever the obstacles or challenges might be for that situation, those things need to be taken into account, and they need to, you need to look at a market ready home and you need to compare your home to it and be realistic about what the condition of the property is. All homes are not the same. They're not all created equal. And the more more you're able to evaluate realistically your situation, the better off you'll be once you do list the property. I was at a young man's house one time. I've been through three personal probate things with family members, but this young man, I went in thinking that I was going to talk to him about his house, and then I realized that his, it is his house, but he inherited it from his parents. And it was that experience with him that made me realize
When people don't :
know about probate, they don't know what they don't know. And here's this train coming and he wanted to move out of his house and he really thought that he could get top dollar for it. Like he had gone online and he saw what other houses in his neighborhood were going for and so he just made the transfer. It's not that bad, so I have dogs, so I have cats, so they made some messes, so they tore up the carpet. What are the parameters when we do a comparative market analysis for a home, what are some things that you would compare? Traditional comparable is a home that is plus or minus 1 percent of the size, so if your home is 2500 square feet, we're going to look at homes within a 250 square foot range of yours. If it's a 1 story, we're going to look at 1 story. So if it's a 2 stories. If you have a pool, we're going to look at homes with pools, but we're not going to do that. If you don't have a pool. So we're also going to try to stay within the neighborhood or within 1 mile if possible and definitely within 6 months time span and those those are your comparables. And then what you do is you look at each property and you make adjustments. Depending on the type of flooring they might have, is it similar? Is it better? Is it worse than what's in your subject property? And have there been updates? Did they update their kitchen? Is there granite? Or do we have formica? Did they update the bathrooms? You just look at all the elements in the home and you compare them to the subject property, and then you adjust for value there. I was talking to someone recently and the mom passed away. Dad had already passed away. And so the daughter who lives here in town is looking at the house and she's got all the things that she's trying to juggle in her own personal life, as well as what's going on in mom's house and she just wants that off her plate. She's just does not have any more capacity to handle one more thing. But there's another sibling who doesn't live here. Who's not feeling the weight of the responsibility of all the things and they're wanting the house.. It's a million dollar house because they grew up there. They have all these childhood memories and it's really an unrealistic expectation and. It puts a lot of conversation and emotional charge into the situation when the daughter just really needs some help. And can we just move on? What would you advise? I've been in those situations before I have 1 of those that comes to mind that father had passed away and 1 of the daughters lived here in town and the other 1 lived out of state and one was doing her best to get the things done and the other one didn't understand why things weren't moving faster. And why the value of the home wasn't greater than, than it was. And what I try to do sometimes when a seller, because that's who they are now, they are sellers, is having some trouble detaching from this part of the process is I have them put their buyer hat on and I have them act like a buyer. And I say, "okay, so if you're going to buy a property and you see these things, what are you going to think? How are you going to feel? And then how would that affect The price you would offer and would you be incentivized at this price to do the things that are needed?" sometimes when they're able to shift gears and put the perspective from a buyer that helps. If you have people who aren't living here, it's a little harder, but I have taken sellers to act like buyers and we've gone and look at homes that are on the market so that they can get a competition and so that they can also
gauge:
oh does my house really look like this or not? Sometimes they physically need to be in that space and that isn't always possible in these situations. But I think the key there is just really trying to help them focus on the tasks and not the emotion that's wrapped up into it. Many times traditional sellers also, they struggle to pack and we have to focus on the goal. The goal is for you to move. And so the sooner you start packing, the easier that will be for you to just take those steps. So everything we do in the transaction is meant to make everything easier. It's to get us moving in the right direction. That's when you put your coaching hat on, right? It sounds like you're back in your sporting days and trying to get people to do something that they may not know... Remind them what their goal is. That's that's the trick with myself too. What's the goal Erica? Self coaching. Yeah. Yeah. There are 2 real estate scenarios that may be listening To this conversation, 1 is the daughter who is currently helping mom or dad caregiving, or maybe a spouse that's looking at putting their, their spouse in a memory care facility, or something like that. For whatever reason, they may need to downsize. And we'll talk about that word in a little bit and then the other scenario is, is once if they wait, if they don't move out and downsize ahead of time, then the siblings and the children, the heirs beneficiaries will need to deal with that same property afterwards during the probate or trust scenario. And so can we talk about those two different scenarios and how they compare and how they would be different? if you have a situation where a spouse is dealing with a property, because 1 spouse has become for lack of a better word incapacitated in some sense, it is easier if they can make that move all at once, where one partner is going to a facility and the other partner is finding a space that is for them in this time. And I say that because you're eliminating a piece down the road. I think this falls more into an emotional health decision where the partner who is remaining in the home Is not staying in a sense of loss. They are moving forward in a direction that.. A new space to make new memories to have potentially less responsibility, less maintenance. And while those things seem stressful and daunting, potentially to the spouse, it's the best thing. And the sooner they do it, in my opinion, the easier it will be on them and on the family. Yeah, there's so many options available before probate. That's when all the options are, you can choose where you want to go. You can choose who gets the China or are we going to donate the China, and then like you were saying earlier the children, the heirs don't have to go through that stuff and figure out the emotional attachment to it. It's just so hard. Isn't it going from being vibrant and a contributor to society, whatever, whatever that talk might be in an older person's mind that now I'm getting smaller. I'm losing autonomy. I'm having to give up my independence. I'm having to move out of this house. There's a lot of loss. it's hard either way, but I would think that it's, it's hard in different ways. Can you talk a little bit about the word downsizing.. The trending word And you'll see if you look on many 55 plus communities and apartment complexes, you will see them saying right size."We're helping you right size." I became familiar with this term a couple months ago, and it really resonated with me, not just for seniors, but for all people. Downsizing from kids leaving to go to college, or they're now starting their adult lives and they're not living at home anymore. Sometimes the word down can have a negative connotation and it can equate to loss. Finding the right size is relevant for everyone. You know, You could be a college graduate looking for the right size efficiency apartment and it's right for you. And what I think it's just a very positive term and it is a very current term it changes and it's not reflective of financial status or age or anything. It really resonated with me because it affects all people at all times. You're not focused on the loss, which in these, in these types of situations with seniors and probate, many people are can't help, but be focused on the loss. That they're for sure. Yeah, I love it. I love that. Thanks for bringing that up. So what's the difference between preparing a house to sell when they're going to be right sizing and preparing a house that's been in probate? So every situation, it just depends. It depends on does the house need work? Is there money in the estate to address the work? Do the heirs, whoever they may be, do they have the time? Do they have the energy? Do they have the resources to invest to fix the home? Once you get through those things then you can better understand what are you going to be able to do? And sometimes you're just not able to do anything other than maybe clean the house and have a thorough cleaning and put it on the market and just price it in a way that will be appealing to buyers to want to come in and put their own fingerprints on it. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that. I think sometimes people struggle with that, or they feel like that is.... It's negative, but it just reality. You really need to as best you can have a grasp on what is the reality of a situation in those times. But there are many vendors out there now that will rehab homes and we'll take their payment at closing. If a family really wants to take on the renovation, because they think it's worth it, then there's definitely options out there for them. It just all depends on their situation in their timeline. Yeah, and I would say it depends on the market because even within 1 area, say, Montgomery County, where even across 1 street can make a huge difference from whether it's... does it make sense to renovate this? And, the renovation shows on HDTV make it look so easy and they always come out looking so great and nobody ever loses any money or time. It's just 30 minutes, right? That's all. Half an hour. And but yeah, when you think back to the daughter who's just trying to get it so maybe there's enough for the market to warrants doing the repairs that needed to be done so that you can make up the difference. But there are those time constraints to think about also in the emotional toll. It's not just monetary. No, and, sometimes you have to ask people. Okay. So you might make. 5, 000 if you make these repairs, you might make 10, 000 dollars. Is it worth the level of stress that's going on. Is it, is it really worth it to years? Especially if you divide that between multiple beneficiaries Exactly. And taxes and all that fun stuff oh, that's true. It's really, and people lose sight of, of those things. They think 10 grand, but they're not getting 10 grand, that's true. That's true. So how does the real estate agent guide people in these scenarios? Specifically to probate, you definitely would want to work with a realtor who has some working knowledge, some education on how the skeleton of this operation works, because if they don't it can be a little bit tricky. Your role as a realtor is to be a consultant, someone who can help them make their transaction more seamless. and smooth. The more input and understanding they have of the probate process, the better those things will work. There's going to be a probate attorney and really the probate attorney and the realtor, title company, they all need to be on the same team talking and working together so that the client knows everybody's on the same page. You want a realtor who is very capable of keeping the emotion at bay. Similar to a situation where people are getting divorced, there's a lot of emotion involved, much more than a traditional transaction. And if you have a realtor who is volatile, who is not patient, who is not willing to go the extra mile, because there's a lot of different parts in here. There's, there's a lot of compassion that's needed in these situations. And if you don't have the right realtor there, they won't be the type of consultant that you need. People might not understand that fully when they're looking for someone to help them in this situation. Everybody knows a realtor, right? Your uncles, cousins, sisters, neighbor. I'll just go with her because I know her and I feel obligated to go with her. 1 of the best things I heard when I was starting real estate was a question to ask someone is that if you're choosing to work with someone, are you going to be able to tell that person when something's wrong? Are you going to be able to tell them you don't like something? Are you going to be able to tell them that you need something different? And if you don't think you can communicate those things because of the current relationship, then that shouldn't be someone you handle your business with. Yeah, that's true because it is a business transaction for sure. Yes. It's a big one. Can you talk about some of the challenges that you've seen come up in probate situations? I think some of the challenges are like we've talked about, you have family members that potentially live in different states. I've had 2 different ones where you have children of the deceased who live in 1 lived in a different country. The other 1 lived on the East Coast. 1 lives on the West Coast. And so you have time zones. You have varying interest levels. Some of them understand. Real estate. Some of them do not. Some of them want to listen. Some of them do not. Situations can be more complicated. Maybe there's more things going on. Maybe there's debts to be paid off. Maybe there are complications with the title. There could always be extenuating circumstances. Because when you're when the will is being probated, There's certain wishes, there's certain things that need to be followed and then there's a protocol. When it's in probate, you can't, you can't sell a house, for instance, until you have a death certificate. You can't do anything, so there's certain legal documents that have to be filed and in place before anything can happen. If probate is going on, depending on the county you're in and depending on the file, it could take. 2 months, it could take 6 months. It could take longer and helping everyone understand that the legal process is what it is can just be hard. It can be exhausting on people who really just want to close this chapter and move for sure. Yeah, a lot of people a lot of heirs that don't understand the timeline are anxious to get the equity, get their money and it's all in the house. And so let's put the sucker on the market and just sell it, but you can't do that without those letters testamentary And just because someone's named an executor on a will doesn't mean the court approves that they might have something in their history, or they might be ill or incapacitated themselves, or just not able to. But even if they are granted letters of testamentary did, they don't walk out of the courtroom that day with them. They, it takes a couple of weeks for the court to get them to you before you even have the authority to act on behalf of the estate. So you can have buyers that are biting at the bit to get into that home. It's a lovely home. They're ready to get in, whatever, make it their own and they have to wait. They can't sell their house until, like the domino effect. You can't legally rush that process. And in the meantime, you might be paying a mortgage on it. You might have to taxes are going to be due. The grass has to be mode pipes might break, so there are things that are going on while you're waiting for this process, but you don't have to wait until probate is over to finally sell the house. You can sell it, but you do need those letters. What about the family that says, let's just sell it for sale by owner. We would save the real estate commission costs. What would you say about that? The biggest challenges for people who do for sale by owner are the marketing, the pricing and the negotiations. And, people see real estate all the time, this is why most people enter the market. It's an easy job and, anyone can do it. And all I got to do is show some houses or put a lock box on a door, put a sign in the yard. And so there are limited service companies where a for sale by owner can get their house on the MLS. But most times the errors I see them make there are they're taking their own photos and they're not professional photos. When 90 percent of people are finding their home on the Internet. That is not the impression you want to make. Many don't take the time to minimize, declutter, stage the home and so it's just not being presented in the best light. Many consumers I would also share are hesitant to work with for sale by owners because it is a different feel. It's not traditionally. It does not equate to a professional experience. A seller who's representing themselves can be very emotional. They don't know what they are required by law to disclose. They don't know how things work and that can complicate the process. Many times for sale by owners also don't want to pay the buying agent if they don't have to. And that just creates shaky ground for people to be on. Many times. We talked about pricing earlier and for sale by owners don't always understand how to price their home. They like you said, they, they see, "Oh these houses sold in my neighborhood. And so my house should be easily worth what they are," but they're not looking at accurate comparables, and they're not going and doing the adjustments. Many times they're just not able to see the difference between their home and another home. And negotiations. When you have a realtor who does this every single day, multiple times a month, they understand what's typical. They understand what's normal. They know what is expected and someone who only sold a house, maybe 8, 10 years ago. Maybe even if it was 5 years ago, 3 years ago, they don't remember and they weren't handling all of those pieces. The regulations and the laws they change on a regular basis. And that's a great deal of unknown. So the seller is just not normally the best at negotiating all these pieces into that contract. So they're normally leaving money on the table, or they're losing out on the other pieces because they don't understand how they work. So 1 thing that I've heard is "shoot. I just put that roof on. Do you know how much that roof cost me?" And that, they expect to get that much full price back in the market value or whatever. And then also the, it's a legal contract. Like they can come back and sue you if they find out that you didn't fill out the seller's disclosure form properly or, if you weren't quite honest about this or that.. It's not, it's not a walk in the park. You know, It's, it's not just at closing, but it, they can come back even later. Right. There are statute of limitations and, you know, people often feel that mechanical updates should give them value and they give you value. They just don't give you monetary value. So modern maintenance is homeowner maintenance there are things that you should do to maintain your home because you're living there and you want to live in a a good safe environment and Cosmetic updates are normally where you get your increased value and where you can hope to recover money on those things but you're right. There's a good deal of liability Involved in selling a home and when you don't know What you don't know. It's hard to be on top of those things. I think people rely on. It's my house."It's mine. I can sell it. I can do it." And yes, you can. You just have to know how to do it. And there is there is a right way and there's wrong way and we live in a very litigious society. I think that it's an increasing risk to be selling your own property. It's definitely not objective. And so, when you have that, I can do it. I can do it. I know what my house is worth. That's almost makes it more dangerous when I've sold when I've sold properties that I own, I always reach out to 2 or 3 friends who are in real estate. I'm like, Hey, this is what I think, but tell me what you think because we are, we are all biased. You can't help it. Yeah, you're invested in your home. For sure. What are some good things for people to think about when they're rightsizing and what to consider when they are selling their home, whether they're right sizing or in probate. I think people need to focus on if they're right sizing. I think they need to focus on what is to be gained. Focus on what's ahead because many times you have many years left and they can be really good. And they have so many clients who have moved into Windsor Lakes a 55 plus community and they are thriving and they're having the best time. It's a very active adult community I just get a lot of joy from them because they have the right mindset and mindset is everything. When people are entering these periods, whether it's probate or it's right sizing, it's just: what can we focus on? What can be gained here? How can we in the positive light, not just monetarily speaking, but where are we moving towards? And how can we get to a positive place? Keeping these things in mind? Yeah, love that. And I, I think that that's both for both. I think that's appropriate for both scenarios. Of the people that are left behind surviving, I think that's fact. What let's get through probate, let's get through it and get through it. So that we can get back to living. We don't want to get stuck in this probate situation. We got to get through it. So let's do it. I know. I, I love the way because there's lots of ways we can do things, but if it as as peacefully and positively as we can, we should. Yeah. It's so inspiring. You know, I wrote my dissertation on the relationship between emotional stress in physical symptoms, like how emotions show up in our body when we're sick and and it's so inspiring to read those stories of people that are physically ailing, but their mind, and they're still optimistic. They're still looking for ways to give back and to help others. I think about a paraplegic who's painting these beautiful paintings, and her life is still very rich and full because of her outlook, her mindset. Hope goes a long way, Optimism goes a long way, and having something to look forward to goes a long way, so I really like your take on that. What would you say to help our listeners that may be thinking about putting their house on the market or considering right sizing? Maybe, they're on the fence wondering, oh, is now the time? I'm sure people put it off too long longer than they might want to, but What would you say to them to help them make the transition smoother and maybe some questions that they could ask themselves? Is this the right time? And, does it feel right? Is this the thing to do? I would encourage them to make a plan. I would encourage them to write it down. And, what do I want? Where do I want to be? And what, where am I right now? And then I, I would look at those things and compare. So if this list of where you want to be is nowhere near where you are, then the time is now. and of course, you need to make a plan to say how long will it take me to get here? Can I afford to do this right now? Do I have the resources to do this right now? You know, You need to look at those things. But if we're talking about people who are in a later season of life, time is much different in those situations. You as a person are changing faster. In that time, 2 to 3 years when you are in your late 70s is much different than 2 to 3 years when you're in your 50s.. So embracing that. Is very important and understanding that it's going to be much easier on your body, physically, emotionally, mentally to right size when you're 70 versus when you're 75, or when you're 75 versus when you're 80, it's going to be a completely different experience. And do you want to make that change at a point when you still have more things you can enjoy in a certain way? Looking at it for what it is and how it will be is really important. And I think just having a plan is so very essential and writing it down, because when you write it down, you can look at it and you can say, oh, these are all the places I have to go. And then you can really see how close or far, if you're going fast enough. So that would be my suggestion is just really to write it down and be honest about what you want and where you are. Yeah. I think that's really, really good advice. I think the other thing would be to maybe write down what you're also afraid of because sometimes we have those fears in our head. And they can be blown out of proportion because they just keep cycling around. But if we write them down, it makes something tangible. And then we can look at it and say, Oh well, that's not true. I'm just totally making that up right there. Of course, I'm not the only one, like we have these scenarios that we play out in our head and there's no valid reason for them even being there. But Putting them on paper makes it tangible. So great idea. So Erica, how can people find you? You can find me on Facebook or Instagram. I'm also on LinkedIn and we have a Google profile. So you can find us there. I'm on next door. So if you're close to where we are physically, then you can see us. And I do have a growing YouTube station, but I would say that the biggest location would be Facebook and Instagram. We've gone this whole time talking and we have not yet mentioned the name of your brokerage. This is Erica Sprague with Layne Realty and yeah, so when you look for her, you can find her as Erica Sprague, or you can look her up and as Layne Realty. All right, Erica. Thank you so much again for joining me today. I appreciate your time. I know you're 1 busy, busy lady, but man, you shared some great things today and some really good insight and some good tips. So I appreciate that for you. I know that our listeners will as well. So thanks so much. And for those of you that were listening, I appreciate you being here as well. Erica and I both want to support you. If you need help know that you matter and that we're here to help you be make the transition in your move wherever that might be so that you can find the right next place for you. Take care.