Navigating Faith and Secularism: A Medical Student's Journey

What happens when we strive to balance faith, work, and our personal lives, all while navigating a secular society? Join us for a stirring discussion with Ramez, a third-year medical student from McGill, who opens up about his own spiritual journey, growing up in a sparse Coptic community in Singapore. From his early years of infrequent church visits, Ramez shares the evolution of his faith, the importance of community and the profound impact of God's love. 

It's a dialogue that explores the complexities of secularism, its evolution, and its role in our contemporary society. But that's not all. We also delve into the essence of relationships, the necessity to nourish ourselves with God's love before we extend it to others, and the challenge of maintaining deep connections in our increasingly digital world. Ramez also offers an enlightening perspective on faith in the workplace, how to approach conversations with differing beliefs and the importance of serving the Lord in all aspects of our lives. 

As we continue our exploration, we touch on the significance of reverence, using our professions as an outlet to share our faith, and the power of being God's servant. Drawing on the story of the three workers, Ramez reflects on the importance of faithfulness in the little things and how they could lead to bigger responsibilities. The conversation concludes with insights on maintaining a strong bond with God, the role of this relationship as a source of comfort to others, and the importance of a steadfast faith in every aspect of life. This soul-stirring conversation will surely leave you inspired and rejuvenated.

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:01

Hey everyone, welcome again on the third episode of the Salt and Light podcast, where we're actually talk about our truth, with our experiences, with some knowledge and by using the scripture. Today our guest a special guest he will present himself and he's going to present a specific topic that I really, really enjoy talking about and it's actually a mission to us, so I'll let him present himself.

Speaker 2: 0:26

So thank you, Bashay. Hi guys, it's a pleasure to be here. So my name is Ramaz. I'm a third year medical student at McGill. The topic I've chosen to talk about today is living and preaching in a secular world. Firstly, because we are in a secular world whether we like it or not, especially here in the West, and personally as well. I grew up in Singapore. For those of you who don't know, there isn't much of a Coptic community there, so I only used to go to church once a month because the priest would fly in from Sydney, Australia. So growing up it wasn't a big part of my life and most of my friends growing up were not Christian. A lot of my friends, even in med school now, like as much as I love them, aren't from the faith or believe in God, and I really want them to know him and love him and experience what we experience.

Speaker 1: 1:32

I love how, when you presented me the idea you sent me in the secular world and at the moment I read it, I was like I know what you're talking about. And then yet, when I tried to research the word secular, it was very interesting what I received from the Oxford Classical Dictionary. So secular is a word that comes from the Latin word secular, which actually we used to use it as a timeline, for example, for 100 or 110 years that was the word for it. And then they use it after that for something called Ludi, secular secularist, which is the secular games. Then they used to celebrate that every new 100, 110 years, depending on when they're going to prepare it. But then the Christian world or the Christian church took that word and then made it for the monks or the nuns that used to leave the monastery to preach for everyone or anyone that was outside of that place, the convent or the monastery. So that's why they call him a secular priest. He used to leave he actually leaves the monastery to preach to other people, to Christian or non-Christian, but it was anyone that was outside of the monastery. And that was very eye-opening, because now we use the word secular for everything that is worldly. But it really started with those monks and nuns that left their monastery, or anyone that was in it, to actually preach outside.

Speaker 1: 3:17

And I feel like you also are. You're living this from Singapore. I am so surprised and happy to see someone that did not have that huge touch of the Coptic faith Like I've lived it. So I know that childhood of a Coptic childhood. But for you to have like so little, but to be in such a I don't know how to say, but you know this life set, I actually have a lot of respect that life style that you chose to actually push towards that and to always have that in behind your, behind your head. I wanted to ask you do you feel like you're a preacher? Do you do you feel like you chose to preach? And you're one of the people that is doing a vagilism?

Speaker 2: 4:11

I'd like to say yes, but and I definitely have tried more recently but I haven't always been, and it's funny that you say that. I came from like a a part of my life where a church wasn't a big part, and suddenly I'm a lot more involved and I care about it a lot more. One of the big turning points for me, I find, was this Bible study we had at McGill every Thursday night.

Speaker 2: 4:46

I'm not going to name drop, but but, I, could actually you know what guys 630 at the Newman Center at McGill icon be there, but basically it was a Bible study that people I would go to every week. A priest would come or a servant from church would come and give a topic and then we'd go out to eat after. Honestly, I feel like that was the first time I really felt that there was something different with people from church. I noticed that they were always asking about me. They were incredibly hilarious, they were incredibly like loving, and whenever I couldn't make it, they'd ask about me. When I was sick, they'd actually bring me stuff. It's not something I had seen to that extent before and like you could have a good time at university without having to get drunk or like do all the things that you associate with university and being a grown up. You know, and the one common denominator was God and church. And yes, I was going to church more often when I came to Montreal, but I think that was what really introduced me to God's love.

Speaker 1: 6:11

And from that environment, I feel like the rest, the other aspects of your life or your world, also follow that or change towards that.

Speaker 1: 6:23

Is it true to say that the moment that you started really going to church or the moment that you felt like, okay, I want to spend time doing this or being with those people, the rest of your life followed that path? Or was it really like two worlds that you're living? Felt like you've been in a dilemma, living in two worlds where I am on Thursdays or Sundays. I'm that person, but you know what, sometimes I feel like I'm a completely different person on Monday, tuesday, wednesday and Friday, when I'm with other people, because you know me and you, we have friends outside of church, where one of those people where we have a huge presence also outside of church and we do have friends, you know, for you, I was Singapore more. Do you feel like are you still that same person? Or now that your life has turned from this to something else and I'm something somewhere else and I'm sticking to that, no matter where I am?

Speaker 2: 7:20

I think at first it was definitely like that two sided kind of life at first, because you were testing, I was testing this new thing, this new church life, God, but still had friends from university and like I found, as you said, like some days hanging out with this God, some days with the other. But then after about a year, like I noticed that I was really appreciative of the love that I was getting from one group and not to say the other wasn't loving, but to say that like you couldn't manage both, like wanting to choose one meant you had to deny the other. And it's like Christ says, like you can't have two masters. You know you can only serve God or money or replace whatever you want with money. In that case you can only have one master.

Speaker 1: 8:18

So you actually make the decision to let go of that crowd, slowly but surely, as in it was not because I was also in that position where slowly some crowds, they were caught off. Naturally because of the time I used to spend at church, the, the effort I was doing was more towards that crowd and then the other, than slowly I became only in that crowd, or maybe 90% in that crowd and 10% in that crowd. Are we able to do so? My question, because your experience surpasses way more mine. As much as I was born in Montreal and as much as there was evangelism since day one and day push us, I always been fearful of my luck to even do it. So sometimes I would come and help do this or that, but I have that limitation that you know. I might not be as good to go tackle that and this is why, you know, when I was preparing I was like so let's, let's. How can I help? In the most basic way? And when you wrote me the, the title was living slash, preaching in the secular world, and I really loved it because it just clicked when I read. It is the way I live and a lot of the times I could even see that my kids were a church.

Speaker 1: 9:51

When I'm doing something, if I do a bad joke or, like you know, a gray zone bad joke, they could pick it up and use it against me, or like they're like, well, you're joking about that, why not me? So I need to always live the right way so that I'm able to show that I actually go with what I say. So then, when I talk, there's nothing not to be put against me, but also against my own God that you know I am, I am who I am, because I follow this man, this, this God. Then you want to learn about him, you want to see that love. Then come and see this, because I am doing this, what he told me to do.

Speaker 1: 10:32

I have four different aspects and I want to, I want us to really dive in those four aspects, and in every aspect there's a specific application. I think it could help us in that area of our life to do better. But I want your input for sure. You're the expert versus me, versus me, you're the expert in this table. So relationships, you know relationships. I have Proverbs 13, 20 and really hit me. He who walks with wise men will be wise, but the companion of fools will be destroyed and I really felt that because of my friendships and this is how I really connected with with that. What do you think what can we do in relationships that could really push us from just being a Christian, you know, going to church, doing all the checkmarks to actually living a a pre-chill world or a real Christian life that could change people around?

Speaker 2: 11:36

Well, like, first of all, like I. I want to make the point that, yes, like, as the verse says, like you know, the company of fools like will destroy you eventually. Even St Paul says like like poor. Let me find the verse One, sec no-transcript, like it was something I'm going to paraphrase for the sake of time, but for like bad people. Bad people like corrupt good habits or something along the.

Speaker 1: 12:16

You know, yes, yes, yes, you actually do have it somewhere.

Speaker 2: 12:19

I need to find it also, yeah, but that being said, Christ always was sat with the people who were considered outcasts, people who were considered sinners. Like I do understand that we need to be careful, but it doesn't mean that I've changed my life and now I no longer need to talk to these people. It's like no, they're just as important and we all need to try and help each other out. And now, in terms of like relationships, I think the most important thing it sounds very cheesy, but the most important thing is love. And because I could preach, I could, as St Paul says, like I could speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but I have not love.

Speaker 2: 13:19

I've become a sounding brass or clanging symbol. You know, like when a deacon is like playing the symbol but he's not in tune, and like a Boona starting to flinch in the altar, Like yeah, like that's what it's like. You know me trying to preach to you or tell you a Bible verse, or tell you Jesus loves you, but I have no love for you. I don't try to have love for you. It's meaningless.

Speaker 1: 13:48

I know that you were looking. I just found it first, Corinthians 1533 do not be deceived the evil company corrupts good habits. So I'm with you 100%, even a road Go for it.

Speaker 2: 14:02

Yeah, like I'll give you an example, right?

Speaker 1: 14:04

now.

Speaker 2: 14:04

Like I'm in the psych ward at the hospital right now. I'm doing my psychiatry rotation and we're told from the very first day that if at any point you feel that you are in danger or things are about to escalate, like just leave, excuse yourself and leave because your safety is more important than like trying to like be the hero or get hurt. Yes, you're there to try and help the person in front of you who's sick, you know, but if it's going to end up harming you, then like it's no good. So it's like when he says to be as wise as serpents but like harmless as doves, like you were given wisdom to kind of test the situation. Like if I'm hanging out with a friend who has bad habits but I care for him and his salvation, I'm going to be there. But when I see it starts affecting me or I'm at risk, that's when you need to kind of be careful or step both sides.

Speaker 1: 15:04

And especially that we're in a world, in a time where an age that we're really a digital age I'm going to call you Liz we lose. I feel like we lose the depth of connection or all through our phones, we text, we don't call and we always lose that emotion throughout the text. I feel like we also between us not only in people that we preach or people that we don't know, I feel like even people that we go in the same church we lose that touch, that genuine touch, interaction where we show love, no matter how hard services or how hard my day was, my week, my month or actually my year sometimes. It's sometimes just a bad year, but we don't get to the depth of how deep God loved us and we use that love to just bless the other person. And the application that I just wrote down is surround yourself with those who have uplifted you for sure, but to remember that's all about the quality of relationship that you have. It's not about having 20 friends or 30 friends, or I've talked to like 100 people today. It's about that one conversation that just was that changed you from inside.

Speaker 1: 16:26

I always remember every single time that I go and help out people like other people, no matter who it is, if it's my kids, a church or people from on the street or people that I would just randomly visit. It's always about how they change me. And it's so funny because I'm going in with that mindset of I'm going to do some good today and then I'm like, damn, you're changing me from inside and you're trying to get to know God and I should be the one with God's knowledge or like God's, like the knowledge of God's love. But yet you show me the true meaning and my dictionary. Just throw it and get a new one. What's yours, where do I get yours? And that's the most changing part. I remember we have common friends and we used to go a lot on Mondays and Thursdays to go and help, and it's always the same feeling. This is beautiful. It's very hard for me again, but it's just mind blowing.

Speaker 2: 17:35

And the important thing that we need to remind ourselves of is that we need to be filled with God's love first before you can give it to anybody else. It's the typical put the oxygen mask on yourself first before helping the person next to you. There's so many examples of this in the Bible, for example when Jesus says like, what are the most important? Like is asked what are the most important commandments? Or ask someone else. It's the first love the Lord, your God, with all your mind strength, you know. And then the second one is love your neighbor as yourself. Like. The first one has to apply. I have to have that relationship first in order for it to overflow to others. Even like when he feeds the five thousandth, it clearly says that like he then took the food and gave it to the disciples and the disciples gave it to the people. Like it came from him, but like it worked outwards that way, like it has to start with him.

Speaker 1: 18:38

I've actually never thought about that little detail in our stories. Funny thing is that there's a lot of stories that we read and like, oh, I know what happened, but when you get to the details of who is giving what, I'm with you, wow, I. It is beautiful to see that. You know, everything comes from Christ and it's blessed, even the wine in the in the wedding when, when, when he changed the, the water to wine, and when they tasted it, they're like, oh my God, there's something completely different from what we were drinking. And they were actually not getting the bad wine, they were actually getting the good wine. And it was done and they didn't have any more. So Jesus went and made wine for them, because that was the celebration, and he woke up from what we he was drinking and actually was mesmerized of how good it was. I think you were saying you were thinking something. I, I, I, I.

Speaker 2: 19:37

I, I was just, I was just thinking. I remember talking with someone once and he brought up a point of like when Jesus raises Lazarus from the dead, like he knows what he's about to do, but he still asks someone to move the stone, like he's about to raise someone from the dead. He could have he's God, he could have moved that stone himself, but he loves it when his creation is, like, involved in his plan for salvation. You know, that's why it's the disciples handing out the food and preaching to the nations, and you know it's so true because we, we are told, you know.

Speaker 1: 20:21

You know, god does not need you per se, because he's able to do it by himself, but he uses you because he loves you. And that's the way he shows love by creating us and by, you know, using us and not asking, not pushing us to love him, but for him, he's waiting for us to choose 100% from our own will to love him, and then he's like well, finally, you're here, you chose me. Then here's this and that and all the blessings that I have. Here you go, and more. What about something more? You know relationships. I love to talk about it.

Speaker 1: 20:55

There's a lot to it, but when it comes to the, you know the tough and the tough part of life the finances. How can I live in a such a Christian way? Even though I am worried about if I'm gonna be able to pay this, I'm not gonna be able to give time. I need to work. I need to do this, this, this, this, like going to church is gonna take a second, like just for this week, or because the try-miss is about to finish. I need to finish those report or I have my balance coming up. I'm gonna skip the holy week. I can't.

Speaker 1: 21:37

My finals is on is on the Easter day. They're not thinking about us, but I can't forget about the exam. Like I know that feeling from high school and high school was easy for me to take some time. I could redo the exam. It was easy, there was no issue. But when you mature and you get into the real life problems or situations you don't have that freedom or that environment that you're able to choose so freely and you're stuck in some way quote unquote that you're stuck to choose this way. What do you think about that? How can I really turn and apply or do it differently and still show God's love and God's way in that world full of numbers and dollar signs?

Speaker 2: 22:31

As someone who's not making any money himself as a medical student, like all I can say is to like involve him in every step of the way, like. I'll give an example as someone who's still a student. I remember once there was a church event I really wanted to go to and I went to the beginning but I had to leave halfway through because I had a major exam coming up and it was Abuna Joseph. Father Joseph from Ottawa, like speaking at our church and like I went to say bye to him and apologize for leaving early and told him why, and he was like don't worry, habibi, you can make your study desk your altar table, you know. Like you can make your work desk your altar table.

Speaker 2: 23:21

You can involve God in everything you do. Start whatever you do with a prayer, even if it's like the shortest prayer ever, involving him in it. Like if it's a financial thing like I'm struggling to pay the like, involve him in it. There's a story of King like Hezekiah in the Old Testament. Like he had a problem and he literally wrote it down and put it in front of God and like like an army was about to attack them and he's like just put it before God, you know.

Speaker 1: 23:52

I think we see that. I think, when we feel like our close ones are going through a tough time, we actually wrote their names on a paper and put it on the altar and be like God I'm giving you those names. Be with them. What I picked up, the verse that I really had in mind. Well, I have a couple of them. The first one was really disturbing. That's why I wanted to talk about it.

Speaker 1: 24:17

Proverbs 22, 7,. The rich rules over the poor and the borrower is serving to the lender, which made me feel like you know, there's this oppression from money. Then I went further, not further than the Bible, but I was searching for an answer, because this is not an answer. Hebrews 13, 5,. Be content with such things as you have let. He himself has said I will never leave you nor forsake you. And it really hugged me to just feel grateful because I know some days like I had, days where you know broke is rich. For me, being broke is a rich life. And then there's days where I'm capable to buy a new car, this, and that you know you're enjoying life. You're going here and there, but being grateful for you know experiences, time with people. You know it's not like I said, it's not about the dollar signs, it's not about what am I stable financially? Because, you know, tomorrow COVID hit and the economy was actually the whole economy just crashed. And you're like what's gonna happen tomorrow? And being grateful for the people around you and people just coming together was so much more powerful than any financial stability that I had from work or from anything that I've done. I was like and when I was thinking about it I was like dollar, like there's this Egyptian saying God give, god took. God has everything, everything is God and everything is in God. So in my head, if I have that opportunity to, you know, advance, like, thank you Lord. And if I lose a job, and I'm, you know, think about this or that, or I just lose a job, thank you Lord. There is something to it you know. So all about. Am I stable financially? If not, let me put God on the side and then go. You know, work on this and be like, okay, I'll be back, god. You know I need to. You know, work on this, this, just to be sure, and be like I'll be all yours after that, coming from all this, the finances. I think it's the same point.

Speaker 1: 26:55

I wrote it down because you know as much as we're talking about stability financially, sometimes working. Or you know there's a lot and choosing your career and doing what you love could be could push you to. You know, neglect, church cause you're just working. You know you have this shift on Sunday. I can't come. Or you know I need to work in a country where there's no masses. So what am I supposed to do? What do you think about? Like, how can I praise God in my work? It's a big, I think it's a topic in itself. But if I wanna, you know, show God, show the Lord's love, in my work, you know how can I do that?

Speaker 2: 27:47

There's a verse, I think, in Colossians that says like when you do something, do it heartily and unto the Lord.

Speaker 1: 27:54

You, as if you read my notes cause that's what I highlighted Colossians 3, 23 to 24,. And whatever you do, and do it heartily as to the Lord and not to men, knowing that from the Lord you will receive the reward of the inheritance, for you serve the Lord Christ.

Speaker 2: 28:11

Yeah, like, for example, like as myself as a med student like sometimes you have a lot of patience to see in a day and every time you see a patient you have to write a note for them. And by the end of the day, sometimes you just wanna like get everything done quickly so you can leave. But then we're told to see Christ in everybody and like when I walk into that hospital, when I leave that hospital room, like did I just serve the King of Kings? Like did I treat that person as if they were Christ himself? And I know, people aren't always pleasant to deal with and it's not always easy, but since when is anything in Christianity easy, you know? And I feel like just giving it your best and reminding yourself that it's not for you, it's for him. He's the one who gave you these talents Helping others in your workplace, being kind to others.

Speaker 2: 29:22

I think that's the best way to preach, like in a hospital, for example, you have nurses, you have PABs, you have social workers, you have everybody. There's one hospital ward, at the Children's Hospital, where they call everybody by first name. There's no hierarchy. There's no doctor, this or nurse that, or it's like hi, sarah, hi, this, hi, you know, like we're all on the same page, the same struggle. We're trying to work together. Not sure if what I'm saying is making sense.

Speaker 1: 30:00

No, it is making sense. My only question or what would challenge you is how about if? Because sometimes people do stand so like we're in an age or era where everyone has a stand about something and sometimes this question perspective is not as well taken as we want, because it's such a bad perspective to have regarding all those new perspectives or this new liberating perspective, and people think that we're very like closing, closed down or not open enough. What is your answer to that? Well, we're trying to share God's love, you know, and people that are living their life in so different colors. How can we, by using this, be like you know what? I do have my beliefs, but I'm still here to show you love, and at work, or mainly at work, because this is where you, you know, 40 hours a week minimum, you know, sometimes we do 50, 60 hours, and that's the people that we see the most how can you put your belief with all this, with everything that they are, and make it work?

Speaker 1: 31:23

and not lose your head.

Speaker 2: 31:26

It's a very loaded question. I'll say a few things. The first thing is like, for example, even with some of my very close friends at med school, the moment I say the words, or in the name Jesus, you can kind of tell the look in their face changes and they're not listening to you as clearly and you know so. Like you don't have to do that. Like you, for example, one of my friends was going for like a little bit of a break through a hard time and I like said I'm so sorry, like I'll pray for you. You know, and like, and she's not religious or anything, and she didn't really respond to it. And then, like months later, this friend was like hey, can you please pray for me? I'm going through this and this. Like not that she believed in God all of the sudden or something, but there was something there. You know the other thing about people nowadays it's very easy for people to shout their opinion at you and to impose it and if you don't agree, like you're considered all the bad things in the world. I'll give you like an analogy I heard once where there was a pastor speaking at a university campus about something and one of the questions in the Q&A was something along the lines of like why do Christians hate gay people? And like he said, well, first of all, like we preached love, like we don't preach to hate anybody, but that's what we'll put that aside for now.

Speaker 2: 33:05

He says what kind of society do you think we live in? He says I'll give you three examples. The first one is a theonymous society, theo meaning God, and no most meaning law. So that means in this is a theoretical society, everybody has God's law engraved in their hearts and they all follow that law. The second one is a heteronymous society. So that means there are a few people who tell you what's right and what's wrong. You see this a lot in like Saudi Arabia and like Islamic states like that, where there are a few clerics telling you what's right and what's wrong. And then the last one's an autonomous society, auto meaning self. So I decide what's right for me. I set my own laws, my own morality, everything. I can choose to follow God. I can choose to do whatever I want. And then so he asked her what society do you think we live in? And she said an autonomous society. And he's like okay, so you claim we live in an autonomous society. But as soon as I give my opinion on something, you suddenly turn it into a heteronymous society and tell me what I need to believe in. Not that I think this is how we should be talking to people at work. I'm just saying that's the kind of hypocrisy of saying that we're in a politically correct environment, yet saying there's only one right opinion. We forgot how to have a dialogue and how to talk to each other and to agree to disagree.

Speaker 2: 34:42

The best thing to do is to find the similarities between us. Like, for example, at the end of my second year of med school, there was a big gathering on a boat. We were gonna like celebrate finishing the second year of med school and I was going and I was asking one of my friends she's Jewish like if she was coming. It was on Friday night and she said, oh, I can't. I'm like how come? She's like, oh, it's the Sabbath, and like I was so impressed, you know, and I told her, like good for you, honestly, that you value God's law, that you're not gonna party or like do anything that you wouldn't do on the Sabbath because you're so faithful. Well, there's me going to this boat party on a Friday when we're supposed to be fasting and when Christ was crucified. You know what I mean.

Speaker 2: 35:38

And like there's a famous story I'm not sure if it's a specific saint or not or just a desert father story, but there were two monks walking with each other and there was a pagan man worshipping and one of the monks was like you're a pagan, you're worshipping an idol, all that stuff. And then the other guy like says, oh, that's so. Like noble of you to carry all this wood and to worship your God and in the end, like that second man's comment ended up converting this guy to a Christian later on. You know, like we need to find the things that make us alike and to build those connections, and we're never all gonna agree on everything. Like I might have a favorite food. You might think it's disgusting different thoughts on music. The same thing applies to faith. Like I'm allowed to believe in what I believe in.

Speaker 1: 36:35

And it's so true because, as much as it's a story the two monks, I think it's of an entity, but I'm not sure, don't call me on that. I've also, unfortunately, seen people. When you're trying to bring back someone, you know someone that actually lived in church but chose like you know what. It wasn't what I thought it should be, and it's more toxic that I thought like more toxic that I could handle. You know, the world is nicer than how you're treating me, which is sad, but sometimes you know we're all.

Speaker 1: 37:09

We do mistakes and it happens I hit the same person at the same time and we work like certain piece, work very hard to bring those people back. You know, slowly but surely Then they come back and it's one bad word from someone and they're like, okay, done, I'm not coming back again. And it's like, if we're able to just take a second, and you know, let people be and not be so stuck up on rules and regulation and this, and that like I'm talking more about church, or like, oh my God, we need to be doing this at church and we should respect the Lord's place. And I'm like I one day I was, I was generally thinking about it. I'm like what?

Speaker 2: 37:53

am.

Speaker 1: 37:53

I Like I'm his servant and I'm barely saying I'm his servant and, like you know, I'm barely capable to even stand in front and say, and I should not, from all the trouble that I make or all the issues that I'm going through, I shouldn't be even be a front of anything. And why am I now being like, oh, we should be doing this and we should be like, watch the time and, like you know, start to start to tell people what to do and want not to do at church, when it's not even your house and it's the kings of kings, the king of kings house, and you're not even a servant. He's like who do you think you are?

Speaker 2: 38:36

Yeah, there was a story actually once from our church where there was a visiting priest praying with Father Peter and he had a lot of little kids, like young children, and one of them was making a lot of noise and the mom was trying to calm him down and at some point one of the older deacons kind of marches to her and like starts destroying her on the spot in church, saying like how dare you, this is the house of God.

Speaker 2: 39:11

And she was later found crying this is a Taswani of the visiting priest, the wife of the visiting priest crying and one of the servants went to see if she was okay and stuff. And she said, you know what, if, like, I wasn't the wife of a priest, that could have been my last time in a church, you know. But while not to say that maintaining reverence in the church is bad, like you could have gone to this woman and calmly said, like there's a crying groom, if your kid is like a little too active right now, or like help them out. You know, like having being a mom with like three young kids, like you know.

Speaker 1: 39:55

Being a mom in itself is a miracle. Sometimes I think, god, I'm a man, but I'll just not.

Speaker 2: 40:04

That's next week's episode.

Speaker 1: 40:08

But one thing that I wrote down for this it's where it gets on, just about the paycheck right. There's way more. So we could actually look for passion and work with passion, that, even though you're not preaching, like you say saying the name of Jesus Christ every now and then or like preaching about Him, at least I am seeking purpose in my profession, I am putting my A1 game all the time. I'm not least, I'm showing that I'm a hardcore worker and everything that I do and then be like then let people wonder what is it about us? That is different. Like you said, I've also known a lot of Jewish people and, for example, we were young and we were, we were text a lot, but from Friday to Saturday, zero text, not even one, not even like. It's. There's a moment she disappears, he disappears also and I only hear about, like hear from them on Sunday. I really respect it and I'm like wow, sometimes a church. I'm like I receive like a message from on my. I need to like answer quickly or or like I have this call, I'll be right back. I just walk in the back, get the call come back. It's beautiful when we show and everything that we do, 100%. You know we give it 100% of ourselves and we show like the dedication that our Lord, Jesus Christ, showed. But we're showing the same thing in our profession our little things. And there's this story of the three workers where they were given talents and the answer is you've been faithful. The little things, you'll be given greater things, and that's how the Lord is working with us. It's gradually right. He gives you a small thing, you do it, you get better, you're stronger, you're able to take more and you go on to become someone greater and we can able to change people's heart. So hopefully, like hopefully for myself, I'm able to get to that point.

Speaker 1: 42:26

The last one is is I made it general, I wrote it down as life in general because, you know, everyone has their own, you know, aspect in life. Maybe I'm into sports, or I have this kind of, you know, I'm a mom and I, like, I'm married and I have three kids, you know, and I have this, or I am this youth going through university and I have, I have this kind of environment. Or I am, I'm retired and I have this, this, you know, this life, this different life that is completely different than any other. Or I'm just a kid, you know, just growing up and I haven't seen much of life, you know, 22,. That's all the right, but in life, in life in general, how can we, how can we, you know, make it just God's way?

Speaker 1: 43:23

How can we continuously make it God's way? Because I work, I could work really hard to make it. You know, showing that I'm dedicated, so I'm showing God's work in finances, be like, okay, I don't mind, like I'll make my finances all about God, put it under his hands, or my relationships. I'm going to try to make it, you know, 100, genuine and full of love. But there's times where, like you're just in your in your head, or you're just doing other things on your own, or you're just not in those circles, where, what, should I just play, pause and be like, relax, veg a bit and come back and work as God's soldier? Or is it a continuous work? What do you think? Do we take pauses because we're not capable, or are we capable and we should thrive for it?

Speaker 2: 44:17

Like I feel like we should, of course, thrive for it and continue to keep struggling. But how do I say this? Like it's an uphill battle. It's not always easy. It's always referred to as a spiritual warfare. Like Christ himself says, narrow is the path or the doorway that leads to life, and there are few who go through it, you know. But I think it's that continual struggle to maintain that relationship, maintain that walk with God.

Speaker 2: 44:57

There's a good verse from one of the Psalms of David that says like the Lord is, that is ever before me, he is at my right hand, so like having him always in front of you, like leading the way, leading everything I do, like taking a moment to like stop and breathe, or just like focus on your heartbeat. There's a wonderful book called Becoming a Healing Presence by Dr Albert Rossi. I think he's an Orthodox Christian, but he's also like PhD in psychology and psychotherapy, I think. And like I got that book and I was expecting to read like how to like tips on how to be a better person around other people, you know. And then the entire book is about developing my relationship, practicing my breathing, how to link my breathing and my heartbeat to prayer, like it was all focused on you and your relationship and, naturally, through focusing on your relationship with God and your love for him, that love overflows and that's what eventually becomes a healing presence to others. Like a lot of people who preach by living, like or by their actions may never say his name in front of others, but people notice some things different.

Speaker 2: 46:28

I don't know if I'm answering your question but, like I think the key thing is to, as the verse says, always have him before you. He's at my right hand that I'm not going through this alone. In every situation, whether I'm studying, at work, having trouble with a relationship in a marriage with kids, like, at the end of the day, he needs to be involved. Like, for example, in marriage, they always talk about the triangle. Like each corner is the three people in the relationship, the top being God and the man and the woman. And like, even when things get hard with the man and the woman, as long as that's like, the connection with God is there, like it's still possible to maintain it. You know, I don't know. Have I answered your question?

Speaker 1: 47:25

or is there something you?

Speaker 2: 47:26

want me to? No, no, no, I was just gonna add to it.

Speaker 1: 47:30

And it's this verse was told the first time I heard it was. I was a kid and it was a super like. It was a superhero moment. I'm like I am Christian. I'm gonna read it and you're gonna know what I'm talking about. Romans 12 to and do not be confirmed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God. And you're like I'm never gonna change. You know I'm always gonna. Like I was a kid, I was always full of hope. You know, I've felt like life was gonna be easy. You know I'm gonna just be Christian, I'm gonna score in it.

Speaker 1: 48:10

And you're like, nah, life kicks you hard. When you get older, it kicks you really hard. And sometimes you're like like there's a time in my life where, like you know what I also don't want to hear about anything about, about God, because you know, I grew in it and I'm like I've seen so so much. That was not what I thought it could, it was and it could be. And you're like I need to think about this. I there's something that isn't working. And when I really was in the, you know the, the lowest point of my life. You, you, you think about it and you're like, no, there's something there.

Speaker 1: 48:57

My identity starts with being Christian, the rest comes with it. And you're like, okay, this is just life kicking me from side to side, because I'm trying. I'm trying to be, you know, still and firm with God. So they're trying to push me over, but I need to understand what's the world. Problems Should not affect my relationship with as much as, like you know, you come back and you're like happen, where you still get those, you know, weak moments and up and you stand up again and you try again. And this is like you said this is a, it's it throughout your lifetime. It's like it's a challenge and it's a, it's a warfare that you're gonna go through throughout your lifetime. It's not gonna stop or end until the actual end, your end or the world's end. But for me it was okay. You're gonna gonna see a lot of things. You're gonna go through a lot, a lot of things.

Speaker 1: 49:54

Have you like, use what you could use from the world that could help you, but never Change your, your direction from God. And and this is where all the verses that I've read is the moment I Put, I said, my foot outside of God's presence or God's love. For God's direction I want a whirlpool of like trouble and and and Noise and I'm lost and I don't know what to do. And I'm going left and right and I'm just, you know, lost for direction. You know, when you're lost, you start, like the first thing that we do when we're lost, when we're driving, we lower the music, which has nothing to do with directions, but it just clears our mind to just think clearly and be like where am I going? Where can I go? How can I adjust my car to go back to the, to that direction, towards my little place?

Speaker 2: 50:50

where.

Speaker 1: 50:50

I'm going, which is for me, is God heaven. You know heaven is being so funny. How for me was a destination. Want to get the heaven where, if you're with God now, you're technically in heaven. You know it's so funny to say that, but you know heaven is God's presence. So then here are, after you're with him.

Speaker 2: 51:14

And and it's just reminding yourself that, no matter what situation you are in your life, whether you're close to God or not, or Are struggling like, he's always there. There's Another some of David when he says like when I'm in heaven, you are there. When I'm in sheol in hell, you are there. There's another saying it's not from the Bible, but it's like sometimes God allows you to Hit rock bottom so you can realize he's the rock at the bottom. You know he's the one holding you up. Or that, that analogy that we've all heard about the footprints in the sand and that he was the one carrying you during those roughest times.

Speaker 1: 51:55

Yeah, it's, I'm with you.

Speaker 1: 51:58

The only thing that I wrote for application, especially for any time, in any situation or any environment, is to always take time to self-reflect, something that my my peace of confession, my father of confession, tells me is at the end of the day.

Speaker 1: 52:15

Sit down, take five minutes, think about everything that you did right, everything that you did wrong or things that you could have Done better, and think about it and note something, and then start your second day by that, or at least you've noted down, you have in mind that you've done this wrong once, you could do it differently, so that you, when you're stuck or you find yourself in that situation, you do it better. So I feel like self-refer a long time is something that we I I under estimate, because you're busy doing this and running from work and I have this that you're like I go back home. I actually sometimes I go back home, I throw myself in bed and I snore like I am just knocked out. Some days are like this, but 365 days of the year, I said myself long. It's impossible that the whole year is like this.

Speaker 2: 53:08

Right, my body is not gonna sustain and we always say we'll do it tomorrow, we're gonna do it later. And the thing is like Saint John the Baptist and Jesus. The first words they say in the Gospels are like Repent now, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. Like it's here In the Psalms it says like be still and know that I'm God. Like you need that Stillness. That's why that book talks about heartbeats and breathing and just taking a moment to like Pray God's name. There was actually an analogy in the book, a story where there was a little boy at the doctor's office, three years old, and the doctor was listening to his heart and the doctors, like, do you want to hear your heart? And he gives the kid the stethoscope and the kid listened and he hears his heart beating and he's like is that Jesus knocking on the door? This is like a three-year-old kid and the author was so blown and Like that awareness at that age.

Speaker 2: 54:13

Like every moment is a chance to connect. You know it's like you were saying we disconnect, we separate this from God. Like we need to include him in everything, like Everything that you go through, whether it's work, pleasure, like that's how you get through it.

Speaker 1: 54:31

And funny thing is that I do ask my kids and and I was, I was trying to understand their perspective and Are they gonna have more like? I asked them do you think knowing God when I was, when, when you're young, is, is easier, or at least You're more capable when you're young or when you're older? Funny thing is most of them told me when you're older and I'm like you do not know how much stuff hits you when you get, when you hit. I remember when I hit 18 first job, like real problem, came at me, like really, and I'm like, wow, I actually just got. I just turned 18, like give me a minute, give me a day.

Speaker 1: 55:16

But it's true as like I think one of the biggest application that we could recommend is take action ASAP, as soon as possible. If you're thinking about it, do it. I remember Someone told me if you, if you're like just you know, chilling around, or and you haven't prayed yesterday, it's okay, or you have, you had, you did pray and on the spot, you thought you in the metro and you thought I want to pray, pray, see our father, and that's it, you're done. But if you're thinking about it, do it. You know it's okay, it's extra points, you're not losing anything, do it. And if you want to do something good to it For no reasons, just do it. You have.

Speaker 1: 56:01

I do have those moments where I like it's want to do I don't like, especially when I'm really I have a bad time trying to do something good to feel okay. It's so funny cuz I'm trying to do good for other people. I'm just, I want to be better inside. That's how I feel better. But Just do it, like Nike killed it with. Just do it. So people just do it. It's so funny because it's it's the best for sports is take the go, go do exercise.

Speaker 1: 56:34

Well, it's the same thing. Like you said, your spiritual life is like your muscle. You need to constantly do it. I'll let like I don't know if you have anything else to tell us. No, because I've learned a lot, by the way, I'm not gonna lie. I always learn. I honestly, every conversation I have with you guys is such, is so fulfilling. So, yeah, just do it. Ground yourself with in values. That promotes truth, nobility, purity, like the verse says a Philippians 4 8. Finally, brethren, whatever things are true, whatever things are noble, whatever things are just, whatever things are pure, whatever things are lovely, whatever things are of good report, if there is any virtue and if there is anything praiseworthy, meditate on these things and like the verse I want to finish with, it's from At John 13, 35.

Speaker 2: 57:34

By this all will know that you are my disciples. If you have love for one another, at the end of the day it's they will know you by your love. They won't know you by your theology, by your Words, by anything. It'll be by your love and how you show it to them.

Speaker 1: 57:50

You know we're gonna know when we're gonna be in that casket. You're gonna see them. The funeral you're gonna see from the family gathering You're gonna see the love, not the dollar sign, not all those worldly you know Objectives. It's really with how much love you give to that person around you. Very true. Thank you so much.

Speaker 1: 58:11

The rum is for coming today and really opening up about this. I know it's sometimes it's very touchy to even open up. You know, talk about preaching or a living hot, a peach. You know Ego is always at at the door, like pushing us to play in your inner heads and I thank you for taking the opportunity and come and talk about it for other people to listen, for you. Thank you guys for tuning in again for our podcast. A third episode. Please share, please continue sharing, liking, comment also what kind of activities you do or what kind of solutions you have to show God's love in your actions, in your life, to really Push the other person next to you to maybe taste God's love for a glimpse of a moment. Thank you again, ramesh, thank you people, and see you in the next episode. You.