Redefining Norms: One Woman's Leap of Faith

Ever felt the heavy burden of societal expectations on your shoulders? Have you questioned the cultural norms dictating your career choices, relationships or even your faith? Johanna, a courageous Coptic Orthodox Christian woman joins our conversation to shed light on how she navigated these pressures, and how she discovered the strength to live life on her terms.

Johanna's journey is a true testament to the power of faith and self-belief. She was pushed towards traditional careers like medicine and law, but her heart desired something different. With relentless determination and trust in divine guidance, Johanna dared to venture beyond societal norms. She shares her insights on embracing who you are, investing in your passions and building a strong spiritual foundation. Our discussion takes a deeper dive into the societal rush for marriage and Johanna's approach to this often-complicated life choice.

Lastly, we explore varied cultural norms and traditions across the globe. From the etiquette of pointing in Malaysia to the tongue-pointing gestures of Nicaragua, we uncover how these unique customs shape our worldview and influence our decisions. Through Johanna's rich personal experiences, we glean a deeper understanding of the intricate tapestry of global cultures and the role faith plays in guiding us through life's maze. Join us for this enlightening conversation that promises a fresh perspective on societal expectations, faith, and cultural diversity.

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Hey everyone and welcome again. Now we're at the fifth episode of the Southern Light Parkhouse, so I want to welcome Joanna. I want to present yourself and also tell us something about you, and why did you pick this topic.

Speaker 2: 0:14

All right. So hi, vishay, my name is Joanna and I'm very happy to be here today. So I'm a Coptic Orthodox Christian girl and I actually am a corporate trainer, so I have a passion for teaching, but I also love playing music and singing, so I actually played that one. So, yeah, the reason why I chose this topic is because I think it's a very hot topic nowadays, one that we all go through or have to deal with on a daily basis, when everybody asks you questions every time they see you and you're just like, oh, not again, and you're trying to just do your life and keep following God's path for you. I think it's very important for us to discuss this topic so that people who are going through the same thing as me can know how to tackle it and how to just not be afraid of telling people what they're doing, despite the standards of the community.

Speaker 1: 1:09

It's a great way to say it, and I actually found an amazing definition from UNICEF itself about the community standards or social norms, and it says social norms are the perceived, informal, mostly unwritten rules that define acceptable and appropriate actions within a given group or community, thus guiding human behavior. And, like you said, we are always pushed to said behavior because they believe, and that's why we want to a bit discuss and see. I want to know what did you go through and differentiate whatever is thinking differently versus yours. So what kind of thoughts were you early in your childhood? Were you more apparent to, or you heard a lot? What happened to you or people around you?

Speaker 2: 2:07

So there are three points that I would probably tackle. The first one would be the studies part. So, as I was growing up, obviously everyone around was asking what are you going to be doing when you're older? What do you want to study? And at first you don't necessarily know. But the more you hear people telling you, I see you as this, I see you as a doctor, I see you as that, and then you start believing it just because people are saying it. So you start repeating that as well and telling everybody that you want to become a doctor.

Speaker 2: 2:40

But what if that's not God's plan for me? What if this is not where my talents actually belong? And so that was one of my first struggles as I was going through my studies. Then the second part is with work. Some people go straight to the job that they're going to be doing and this is what they stick to for a long time, and other people explore different things and build different talents as they go, or different skills, as I can say. So that was the second part, and the third part is obviously relationships.

Speaker 1: 3:16

And I am with you 100% because all three aspects we have different challenges throughout our different aspects of life. So I want to start with childhood and all three aspects. Tell me, what did you find yourself challenged with in every of those aspects?

Speaker 2: 3:40

So during my childhood. Let's start with studies.

Speaker 1: 3:44

Let's start with studies and tell me, were you maybe tackle or push to do something specific? What was the mindset back then and what were you thinking at that time only?

Speaker 2: 3:58

Yeah, so to start with the childhood part, I'm a Coptic Orthodox girl, meaning also Egyptian. So, that being said, our only options in life really are being a doctor, an engineer, and it could pass if you're a lawyer. But I wasn't really interested in either of these, actually, when I was younger, because everybody was telling me oh, I see you as a doctor, you'd be such a good doctor for me, and so on and so forth. You know, I believed it and I don't. You don't want to deceive people around you, you don't want to put them down. You want them to be proud of you. You want them to be happy with what you're doing, right.

Speaker 2: 4:35

So this is actually what I started working towards and I actually completed my studies, you know, went to CJAP and then went to university but started with an undergrad in kinesiology, hoping to actually get into medicine afterwards. But plans changed and actually throughout my undergrad, I realized it was actually not for me. I didn't like it. I was actually doing a few jobs as well in the field, so in the health care field in general, yanyi. So, and I just didn't enjoy it. I didn't feel like it was the place for me.

Speaker 1: 5:11

So for you, that was from childhood. You were challenged to become something and made the way you found yourself completely off and it took you. So, if you don't mind, when did you realize that it wasn't your thing? Do you have a moment where, like this moment, I realized I had to change plan?

Speaker 2: 5:33

Yes, it was actually at the end of my undergrad and I realized I was actually working at an osteoclinic, so I was kind of seeing what it looks like in the health care field in general. Again, I wasn't even touching actual medicine, but just from there it was the point where I said you know what? I don't want to deal with actual patients. I like to see people who are healthy. I don't like to necessarily deal with them while they're patients. Don't get me wrong. I love helping people and I'm all for it, but I don't want it to be my actual job for life.

Speaker 2: 6:05

Okay, so that was kind of a triggering point for me to say I don't think this is where my skills will be the best or will benefit me to the maximum. Also, I felt like God gave me talents that I could use elsewhere. Among other things, I was mentioning my passion for teaching. That was something I always loved to do and I believe it's really something that big part of it is a talent God gave me to be able to transmit information. To be clear, maybe I'm not as articulate right now, but you know as a teacher.

Speaker 1: 6:36

No, you're doing great, by the way, you're doing amazing.

Speaker 2: 6:38

As a teacher. I felt like I feel like God did give me this part, so I thought why not use that talent to actually have it as a job as well? Right, I'm not necessarily the best person who's going to memorize everything you know, and these are the skills required for a doctor, for example. I thought, well, I can actually use my talents and that could become my job as well.

Speaker 1: 7:03

And did you? When you realized you had to change career, did you find yourself or did you face any challenges around you? Yeah, of course, and but tell me, was it usually like there's different answers for these, but what was your biggest challenge and how did you actually? How did you face it?

Speaker 2: 7:29

So obviously, when you tell people around you nobody likes change, right, it's not that nobody likes change, but people like to stay where they know they are and where they're just comfortable. So for me to come out and say you know what, I'm leaving the healthcare field completely, it's not even like, oh, I'm going to do occupational therapy instead. It's no, I'm not doing any of this healthcare side and I'm literally going to the other side completely. So the educational side. So that's kind of just like a big shot. So my biggest challenge, which was actually probably convincing my close, my close, the people closest to me, obviously family, friends, people who are really concerned about my future, because I know that they love me and I think it's it's something that we all go through is we can feel it as pressure. We all know that it's coming from a point of love, but the thing is we do feel it as pressure, right?

Speaker 1: 8:29

Is it justifiable that because it comes from love that we need to accept that pressure?

Speaker 2: 8:35

But that's exactly the challenge is only because it's coming from love. It does not only because it's coming from love do I have to actually accept right. So this is where it's a challenge that I understand that you are talking to me from the fact that you actually love me and are concerned and care about me and about my future. But I see things differently and I don't have to actually abide by the general standards that people have right.

Speaker 1: 9:05

And it's good that you said that because it's not only regarding, you know, our differences with parents. It could be also taken in a larger way. I actually know beautiful verse from Romans 12 to and do not be conformed to this world. Be transformed by the renewing of your mind that you may prove that it is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God. And for me, that's what, when I also realized I was doing the wrong thing and I actually, from a guy that used the ace to actually sleep in class and not able to focus and not even concerned or even looking forward to anything you know academically, I had to sit down and think about it and the pressure that I received and the information I received from outside was be that, be this goal in this career? And I actually looked in what I love and am passionate about and I'm ready to sacrifice and push myself for more. There was a completely different area and from that, it was like I was lost. I was the last sheep that found and like you know, a crazy idea and I'm just going to throw his future in it. So I totally believe that moment where like, yeah, I'm not doing this, I'm about to go to marketing and the other only reckon is like what is marketing? It's not going to bring you money, it's not going to give you a future. It's a big doctor that this is, it's going to make money. You're going to be this and that and and and it's and it's stable. Everything is about stable and we are afraid of doing different Other than work.

Speaker 1: 10:56

You mentioned also so studies and work. You also mentioned your love, everything that is relationship. What are the pressures that you've seen when you're younger, especially in, like high school and all that we start to pick in the and start to like people from the other sex and all. So this is where we start developing our love and our interest. What were the challenges that you found yourself in, especially in the Western world, versus a community that comes from Middle East? What were the differences that you saw and how did you face it?

Speaker 2: 11:35

So if we talk about relationships, actually, funny enough, I never really feel the same pressure itself from the Western community itself, because I grew up in such a way that I got so used to not really paying attention to what these standards are. So you know, throughout high school, for example, when people had boyfriends, girlfriends that's not my kind of style. I wasn't really bothered by that. I don't think this is what bothered me most. I don't think this is where I faced the biggest challenges.

Speaker 1: 12:06

Aren't you not questioned? Of not having a boyfriend at that stage, you'd be like why don't you have a boyfriend now, like everyone has a boyfriend? What was your answer to that?

Speaker 2: 12:18

So I was questioned about that multiple times, but my answer was simply I believe that this is not the right time for me and you know I'm not going to go too far into this, because many different views are okay to be thought like I'm not going for one specific type of view but for me this was not the right time. And to pursue or to talk to someone without having an actual goal was not very useful. So I didn't see the purpose of having a boyfriend, girlfriend, at that time, at this period of time where I'm really supposed to be focusing on my studies right, because we're talking about high school Now. The real challenge happens later, right? So when you're more in university, slash after university. What do you do now? Because, believe it or not, I didn't say my age, but I have been done with university for a while already, not that long, but just saying.

Speaker 1: 13:22

Try to guess, yeah.

Speaker 2: 13:24

So. But the point is, you know as soon as you're done university, or like almost done university. From then on it's all about so when are you getting married? When are you getting married? This is the biggest challenge, I find, because this is where you know you're no longer at the stage where you can say, well, I'm focusing on my studies. Well, guess what You're done with your studies.

Speaker 1: 13:45

Moving on, so I feel like it's so true because as soon as you get that diploma and you're ready, it's like you're ready to have a child, like to get married, have a child, like it's like so automatic that you can't have anything in between. I like I recently been traveling and I felt like, is this right or wrong? It's like can I just have fun on my own? Am I able to do that? And it's such, it's craved in our minds from such a young age that I actually thought by 24, I was going to be married ready, have a kid, or maybe not, but at least thinking about getting a kid. You know, I'm so not close to that, but I'm still happy and I'm content. So that's. I know that men, we are pushed to be ready financially. It's such a responsibility to be ready for marriage and within a certain age. What is on the other side? What is the pressures that you feel on that side?

Speaker 2: 14:51

Well, that's going to be a good one.

Speaker 1: 14:55

It's a tough one.

Speaker 2: 14:56

So pressures on the girls side is to be open to talk to people. It's to be open to get to know people and not to be like too much of a perfectionist or not to be, you know, too stuck on certain things, like you have to know what you're going for and what you're letting go of. And so that is pressure. Because then when people do approach you but you really clearly don't feel comfortable or you don't feel like it's the right person for you, you know it's a challenge to say no, not only because you know you don't want the other person to feel hurt because it has nothing to do with them, but whether you like it or not, right, it's a relationship. But that's not the biggest challenge. I think the biggest challenge is having people around you understand that you said no and be okay with it because it's like but what are you doing?

Speaker 1: 15:48

Time is flying, you're going to miss the train, and you know there is a train that that train that I don't understand, that everyone is, is falling on. Like that I missed the construction, like where is it? Like I don't, I don't get it. Why is people so focused on following a train and not just enjoying their life? And funny enough is that statistic, statistically, it's not very like fun, like it's not very opening to get married, like 55% of marriages actually fail and end in divorce. So it's not as if I'm saying don't get married, but like at least plan it well. Like you know, if I'm going to open a business, I'm going to think twice about the money I'm going to invest. I feel like investing that much of me which is financially, emotionally, mentally, physically, you know, psychologically that's even bigger. You know just everything. And I'm just going to pick the first one that comes and be like so that everyone is okay with it. I understand that point.

Speaker 2: 16:55

So, if I can just say, like, what's funny is my view on this as much as on work is the same. It's for work, For work. I'm going to retire a long time from now, so there is no point for me to try to get stuck in one job, but that's. I'm not encouraging people to switch from one job to the next all the time. That's not what I'm saying. But what I'm saying is you know you want to make sure that whatever job you're going to be staying in for very long is the one job that you really want to be doing for this long. You still have a long way to go before retirement. Same with marriage and our Christian Orthodox beliefs there is no divorce.

Speaker 1: 17:36

So once you are getting married.

Speaker 2: 17:38

I don't want to call it stuck, but if you are going to be stuck, you better be stuck with the right person, right? So you know once you're married, you are not going back and this is going to be until death. So that's why there is no point, in my opinion, to rush things or to just say yes for the sake of saying yes and to say that I'm getting married. So all this to say these are the main challenges. It's all the ways about the pressures of people not exactly seeing what you're doing and why you're doing certain things, and I can share with you something very personal about that part. But you know what I felt like now that I'm done with my studies, because I did take a bit longer, I did do a master's, so I do have a master's of education. But now that I'm done with all of that, I feel like this is the time, exactly like you were saying.

Speaker 2: 18:28

You know, we started traveling. Well, same thing for me. Not necessarily just traveling this is definitely part of it but also just using more of my talents in different places, whether it be, you know, playing music or singing hymns, tenanim, all of these things. This is the time for it because, whether we like it or not, people who are married have responsibilities. Marriage comes with its own responsibilities, so it's not like you're going to be free to do whatever you want afterwards. So I think what's really important is to take every single period of our time to just of our life. I mean to just grow right. Use that time. So now I'm not married, might as well, use this time. You know, it's not about running and rushing to just get married.

Speaker 1: 19:15

And it's true, because we're so focused, I think I feel I feel sad for those people that pressure other people and if I feel like sometimes I ask myself has there not like, is there nothing happening that you need to comment? Or you need to get into someone else's way and to ask, hey, what's up? When are you getting married? Like I feel like have you not been in that position and like felt it yourself? Why would you do it to someone else? I'm with you. So studies is you know we've talked about studies and I know that picking the right.

Speaker 1: 19:57

I think the one thing that I believe from my heart is Just trying. Like I really had the opportunity to redo Cezep and I was really like I did not say much because I felt like it was such a taboo, but for me it was very smart, for me financially and also for me to test out and to see like I was not going to engineering. So what am I supposed to do? So I rethought my whole process and I was like I'm going to try out a lot of classes, I want to pick those I love, I'm going to go with that, and now I found my passion.

Speaker 1: 20:33

Now, after that, your work and people tell you oh my God, why did you quit? You need to be stable. I'm not going to pick something that I love and a place that respects me and I'm going to spend 40 hours I don't think I actually spent 40 hours in the whole week at home and I'm going to spend 40 hours at work and I'm going to be pushed to respect what they think is very hard. And lastly, for relationships, I'm going to pick someone that will stay with me till my death and I'm going to pick the wrong person is very hard. So what should we do? So, if we have all those pain points and everything that, like, I try to summarize with all this being said, what should we be doing then? What should be be? My man said Should I be just going for a revolution and revolt, or what is the guidelines I could follow?

Speaker 2: 21:24

So just to go back to what you were just mentioning about people getting into other people's business and just asking questions all the time Unfortunately, people don't realize again goes back to the point of saying people say it out of love. I'm not going to say everybody, to be honest. Certain people just say it out, ask questions out of curiosity and they just want to put that pressure on you. I'm like, hey, you know, at some point can I just say this? It's very funny. But at some point someone told me like when are we going to you know, rejoice for you. But you know, in our Egyptian community that means like when are you going to get married? And so I was like, why aren't you rejoicing for me? Right, it wasn't Arabic, so I'm trying to translate this.

Speaker 1: 22:08

Are you not happy for me for now?

Speaker 2: 22:09

Exactly, it's like why aren't you happy for me? And the person looked at me like you know what I'm saying, Like, because I know what you're saying. That's exactly what I'm answering this way. Who said that it's me getting married that's going to make you happy, or make me happy, for that matter. So you know what I mean.

Speaker 1: 22:25

But I would challenge that also and say I've, like, listened a lot and I've heard a lot and I don't know for a fact, but I think motherhood is such something, something that is such an important element for girls and women, that missing out on that could be fetal Versus a complete or a successful career. I think motherhood takes it, even though it's very hard, as a career, as a job, if you want to compare it literally. But to miss out on that is also very hard. So what can we? What is the middle? How do you manage both ways, as in I'm trying to, without being pressured, and at the same time I'm trying to push out those people?

Speaker 2: 23:16

So you know, there are a few things about that, so one of them is we need to understand that everything has a time under heaven, right? I can't, you know, come up with the exact verse right away, but everything happens in its right time. It's not because I'm not married today that I'm never going to get married or have children. You know what I mean. And so, of course, motherhood is a success in itself. Again, in this, in today's world, I believe women need to be very, very well prepared for that, because it's not easy, you know, to raise a child in today's world, and in everything that we go through, you know the standards, just how everyone lives nowadays. So what's more of a success to me is to grow, to be ready for that point in my life, right? So, yes, being a mother is a success in itself, but the fact that I'm not there yet now doesn't mean that I'm never going to get there. I'm supposed to be using this time to prepare for it and to have the best that I can offer once it's time for me for any of the coming stages of life. Okay, so, yeah, another thing about. So, going back to your question of what can we do, and that's both for me as a person going through these struggles, and for people who are trying to ask people questions all the time. It's be content with who you are, be content with who others are. So, you know, in the book of Matthew it says blessed are the meek. But do we actually know what meek means? Actually, the Greek word for meek means gentle, considerate, unassuming, so it's about showing kindness and love for others. It's really the opposite of being arrogant or self-seeking or asking people all the time to, just, you know, feed my curiosity. It's against all that. So, from a person, from the perspective of someone who keeps asking, I need to remind myself that I need to be meek in order to inherit the earth, and so I need to be loving towards others and for myself, going through the struggles, I also need to be meek, meaning being gentle towards myself also, again, to fulfill this commandment. So that's for this part In terms of other. So you were asking about other tips. You know what else can we do?

Speaker 2: 25:50

So other things that are very important are to just trust God.

Speaker 2: 25:56

Trust God, all things work together for good to those who love Christ right, to those who are called according to His purpose.

Speaker 2: 26:02

And so if I trust God, if I ask Him for direction every morning, if I pray and truly trust that he is giving me what I need in the right time, then I will kind of shut every other noise from me, right, I'm going to shut it out and I'm not going to listen to people pressuring or and honestly I'm saying this, but I'm going through it and it's not easy because you hear people, you hear what they say and especially when it's people who are important to you, you hear them and it can hurt and it can make you overthink a lot. But it's important to get back up and not to just feel like I got everything wrong in my life and I'm not following any of the things that I should be doing in my life. It's always to get back up and realize who am I following truly at the end of the day? Am I following what people want me to be doing or am I truly following God's calling in my life?

Speaker 1: 27:10

I would love to challenge that, because in the story of Amakari, was God actually spoke to him through a child, through a kid? So the man of monasticism, the man of wisdom, had to listen, from a kid. So someone that would come up to you and say, you know, like God is telling me, I was pushed into your way, or God, like we were reunited. In this moment and I have that thought and I want to tell you this and I want to ask People say like, and it's all about, and, like you said, it's all coming from love. How can I differentiate from something that God is telling me, from other people and when it's just noise?

Speaker 2: 28:02

build your relationship with God. I know it sounds like a Sunday school answer, but it is what it comes down to, because the more I will build my relationship with God, the more I can clearly hear His voice. So if I truly feel and hear His voice, then I will know for sure that what I'm listening to is from Him and not noise. I truly believe that God is well. It's also His words.

Speaker 2: 28:33

God is not a God of confusion, right? So if I'm confused about something, or if something makes me very uncomfortable and unsure, I don't believe that it's coming from God. So and I might be wrong, but this is how I see it If I'm really not sure and not comfortable and confused, then it's not coming from God. So it's probably noise, and it doesn't matter who it's coming from. It could be coming from someone that I don't trust whatsoever, and it could be coming from someone that is really dear to me. And again, it's not about respecting these people less or anything, but it's really about trying to go for what God has called me to do and not what the world is asking me to do. And so in order to be able to do that, it's important for me to just walk with God. You know, I know I'm bringing something up that has nothing to do with this, but it's because we heard about or we were discussing this a few weeks ago at a Bible study meeting. But does anybody know anything about Enoch in the Bible?

Speaker 1: 29:37

Well, not much.

Speaker 2: 29:38

Not much. There is literally one sentence about him in the.

Speaker 2: 29:41

Bible and it says at the end of the sentence. It says, or two sentences Enoch walked with God and then he was not, for God took him. What does that mean? Nobody really. You know the Bible didn't bother writing about how he lived his life, how he got married, what he did as a job. All of this doesn't matter at the end of the day. What matters is that he walked with God and therefore he was no longer because God took him. And I think that if this is my purpose in life, I will let God use me in whatever way he wants. I will not worry about what am I doing exactly as a job right now. What am I, you know, studying? Who am I talking to? I will ask God to constantly use me in whatever way he wants for the glory of his name, and so I don't care about what the community things or standards are.

Speaker 1: 30:31

So what about your free will? You still have a mind to use, a free will to exercise. What about those, if I'm gonna just let God run me like a puppy, a robot?

Speaker 2: 30:45

No, no, that's not how it is.

Speaker 1: 30:48

So you probably what do you mean? Like for God to tell me what to do or to choose from me. What is different than for me to become a puppy for him?

Speaker 2: 31:03

So here, is something very important that you said and that I wanted. Maybe if I said that this is not what I'm trying to say, so God doesn't choose for me, god guides me, okay? So God is really there to guide me and it's like a GPS, right? You've heard that, we've heard that a million times. But it works like a GPS.

Speaker 2: 31:25

So if I'm getting lost, if I'm choosing the wrong path, god is always gonna redirect me. He's always gonna do you know, recalculating, you know but if I choose to keep going with the wrong way, he's not gonna force me into going a certain way. He's constantly gonna show me that there is always this U-turn or this detour that you can take in order to take the right way again. But I need to be making my choices, and this is where it's extremely important for me to listen to his voice. If I shut my GPS off, it's okay, nothing's gonna happen, I'm just gonna get more lost, right? It's the same. If I shut God's voice off, I'm not gonna listen to him anymore and I'm gonna keep walking wherever I'm going. So he's not forcing me into anything, he's just redirecting my path all the time.

Speaker 1: 32:18

And how can I know that? Why God is choosing? Okay, so we didn't say he's choosing, so God is guiding me. And how am I supposed to know that where he's gonna guide me to is actually the right path? Is there not a second path I could take? That is as good.

Speaker 2: 32:38

Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding. In all your ways, acknowledge him and he shall direct your path. That's exactly what it is. If I really trust in the Lord, then I know for a fact that he will take me. It doesn't mean I'm not gonna make any mistakes. David walked with God. Was it a perfect walk? It wasn't, but he was walking with God, and so what happened is he was constantly redirected. That's exactly what I want to be doing Is tell God, even if I mess up, just please have my back. I know that God has my back and that he will bring me back to the right path.

Speaker 1: 33:13

And if I don't believe in him, because for me to trust it needs to start from believing and if I don't believe in him or I lost belief because I lost trust, what? It's a genuine question. I don't know how to tell people like I actually trust him, he's a better out, like. Whatever you think you're blaming him, it's not him. But how we're supposed to tell them or to show them, or to prove to them that God is a person to believe in?

Speaker 2: 33:47

I don't think it's my job to convince people to believe in God. I think it's my job to manifest God's presence in my life. So by going through what I go through my resilience, my persistence, the way that I just trust in God, by seeing me trust in God, people will come to believe eventually. And by seeing me succeed while just trusting in God, I believe that people can come to believe in God as well. So I don't think it's my place to just try to convince people like you need to believe in God. But I think someone who genuinely wants to know if there is God is going to ask for it. He's going to ask for God to manifest himself. This is what really happened in most of the stories that we hear, right. So someone is asking God if you actually exist, please manifest yourself. And when that happens, these people are going to see him through different things. It could be through literally a kid walking around or through something really intense that happens in their lives. So 100%.

Speaker 1: 35:02

I'm with you 100%. It is beautiful to sometimes read those stories or actually watch those stories or actually see them in real life, where a whole life changes because you haven't done it. You haven't done it just by the grace of God. He completed what you were doing and it just enlightened someone around you and it just blessed them for a moment to realize that and to just be curious. And just a beginning, because I remember I had to like I had a moment of where I just completely stopped believing because I was.

Speaker 1: 35:40

I had enough of what people or the community had to say around me that I was like there's something wrong in what this is or what Christianity is, and this is unfortunately some path that we push people to. And from there I had to go through a pain detour for me to understand that my only place is in that noise, where I had to go through that noise and to live with that noise but yet struggle in that noise and become better. I feel I want to say something to those people that are making the noise and with all love, as much as they have love, I also do have love with them. I just wish that I had people. I had people. No, sorry, I had amazing people in my journey where they were here to support me, to talk to me, and the darkest like no one knows about that but the biggest people that pushed me away were the biggest noise that pushed people around them. I'm just telling them like for your own sake, like not stop, but like watch out for yourself.

Speaker 2: 37:03

Yeah, and it starts with you and me. I think it's important for us to be the example of what we want others to do and to really that's one thing that I try to tell myself all the time is be the good friend that you want people to have. It's not try to go find the best friends, it's try to be the best friend that you can be for others, so the one that's going to actually support them and not lead them astray, you know, the one that's going to help bring them up and not put them down by asking them all kinds of questions and making them feel bad about their lives and struggle more. So I think that's very important. Can I say one thing that I just wanted to mention, for Of course.

Speaker 2: 37:49

So one thing that can help me find success in life every single day is to just say just like Isaac said. So then Isaac said oh Lord, god of my master Abraham, please give me success this day and show kindness to my master Abraham, right? So this is what Isaac said. I know in his context it was to find his wife, but that's such a powerful verse to just say every single morning. If I just start every day asking God to please give me success this day, wow, we will see wonders. Honestly, okay, because it's success on all levels. I can ask God for success at all levels, whether it be in relationships, in work or just in general, to be a good person and to again to do God's work so that they may see our good works and glorify his name.

Speaker 1: 38:45

And that's why I noted a few small list of four or five things to do or to follow that it could help you at least find your way throughout the noise. So don't follow, binding with Romans 12 to that we mentioned so, and do not be confirmed into this world and be transformed by the renewing of your mind that you may prove that what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God? Then, to have mercy and to know justice, to just, you know, have mercy. We all remember, because the only I'm sad to say that, but only time that I really feel the word mercy or the word have mercy is in liturgy and it just after that, it just, it's only justice. I want what's right for me, so we take upon ourselves to make everything just and justice according to what I think is justice, not what what is better from my solution, regardless of the other, but this verse was beautiful.

Speaker 1: 39:52

He has shown you, oh man, what is good and what does the Lord require of you, but to do just justly, to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God. That's Makai 6, 8, beautiful, beautiful verse. I was really shocked when he said, oh man, but like you socked me, efficient 5, 8 with live in God's light, for you were once darkness and now you are light and the Lord walk as children of light. And it's just beautiful, for, like you know, for any other thoughts or temptation or issues, we're going through just to help each other and to just be a support. And that's why the other one that I'm just going to mention is beautiful, and that's first Corinthians 10, 31.

Speaker 1: 40:48

Therefore, whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God, and it's it's, it's a beautiful, beautiful way to end this. I have a little game for you. So we know, we know a lot of of the Egyptian culture, the Coptic culture I have, I have, like, I have written a list of different social norms in different countries and I want, I want to, I want to know do you feel like it resembles ours, or is it the complete opposite or different than ours? Okay, so in France? In France, it is considered polite to kiss acquaintances on both cheeks when meeting them.

Speaker 2: 41:38

Okay, For us it's probably IAB.

Speaker 1: 41:43

It's probably for people that we do know or we don't like. What is, what is the? Because France, there's a lot of like. For them, it's a different like. There's a whole system of how to meet and to greet. So what is ours, what is the? Known unwritten rule about greeting people.

Speaker 2: 42:00

In Canada or in Egypt, because we're talking about different things already.

Speaker 1: 42:04

Egyptian in Canada. How is it Well Egyptians?

Speaker 2: 42:07

in Egypt, it would probably be by hand.

Speaker 1: 42:09

Yeah, handshakes.

Speaker 2: 42:10

Handshakes. So here it's going to be. I don't know, depends, depends where you go. Sometimes it's hugs, sometimes it's just saying hi from far, sometimes it's high, high five. That's a cool one.

Speaker 1: 42:25

It's actually true, because you don't know how the other person shit is greeting. So but you're gonna love, because in Germany it is customary to shake hands with everyone you meet, both men and women.

Speaker 2: 42:37

But it's funny that you're saying it's an actual polite thing to do, it's a standard for them. For us it can be the opposite. It can cause problems if let's say you're in a relationship and the other person sees you greeting someone in a certain way or being greeted a certain way, and that could be a problem. So I have to make.

Speaker 1: 42:54

It could cause a lot of discussions. Yeah, I need to talk to you. Discussions it is customary to in, so in Japan it is customary to take your shoes off when entering someone's home.

Speaker 2: 43:07

Yeah, I think that's that's normal.

Speaker 1: 43:09

So that's something that resembles ours, our norms, talent also. By the way, it is customary to remove their shoes when they're entering a home and also Funny thing is India it is considered rude to show the soles of your feet and to point your feet at someone else. There's something that resembles. That is Sandals. Have ever, have ever, been told to switch?

Speaker 2: 43:37

Oh yes, your sandals, because they're yes, down, yes, but I think that's more of a thing with like oh the devil or some superstition, yes, but someone told me Turn it upside, turn it back, because you're showing the soul of your, of your sandals towards God. And I'm like oh Okay, no, I never heard that one. I.

Speaker 1: 43:58

Was like okay you know I telling me that my shoe is insulting God.

Speaker 2: 44:02

No, but honestly, I think we do have these standards as well. At least you know from Like, for example for me, from my grandma. I can't be sitting crossed legs, I can't be sitting, you know like that. In front of someone who's older, it's not respectful to be sitting like that.

Speaker 1: 44:19

You have to be sitting up straight and you know so in the in Japan also, they are known for the slurping while eating to show Respect and to show that they loved the food to the chef.

Speaker 2: 44:37

Okay, how about? No, you do that for here, here for us, and it just sounds weird and rude, like you don't want to hear that and one of the last points, actually have two left and they're funny because I love them to the end, because they're funny one.

Speaker 1: 44:53

So in Malaysia they point with their thumb.

Speaker 2: 44:58

For what?

Speaker 1: 44:58

anything. They want to bust, they want to know to point something out if I want to point to something.

Speaker 2: 45:06

Oh, instead of going with this one.

Speaker 1: 45:07

Yeah, and instead of your, your index, you go with the thumb. Interesting and the last one is Nicaragua, the actual user tongue. The point. It's good that I cut that piece.

Speaker 2: 45:25

Why would you want to do that?

Speaker 1: 45:27

but it's there. It's there, it's their cultural norms and it's as fun as this. It's different, but imagine that it. Just imagine that in their country, for them it's normal mm-hmm as the point of this small mini game and just as much as we had fun naming different norms is to also show, it's to also tell people that Everyone has their own way, you know yes if I'm gonna live it this way or that way doesn't mean that I'm doing it wrong, mm-hmm.

Speaker 1: 46:01

We have different standards and it's okay to have and it's okay if my way to respect the chef is to slurp and to make noise and To eat the way I'm gonna eat people. Sometimes it's on the floor that they eat. Some other people is is on on the table with Cutlery and it's. It's a different, you know, mentality but it doesn't mean that one is less than the other, is just different. Or, for example, to say in Iceland it's considered polite to say thank you after every meal Registration. We do have Sentences. We say when we're done is to bless the place that they may more, they have more meals. So it's there.

Speaker 1: 46:43

Every Culture have their way, but unfortunately also every culture I'll have their ways to push us of balance. So, yeah, there's, there is a difference between, you know, having cultural differences and understanding the differences and Understanding what's right for God and what I need to limit for my cultural background. Say no, this is a mentality that inhibits where that stops me for doing the right thing or to live my life To the fullest. Thank you so much, joanna, for coming today. I am sorry if I Jumped you with the weird norms today.

Speaker 2: 47:23

No, that was so much fun. Thank you so much for having me. I really had a pleasure being here.

Speaker 1: 47:27

Thank you, guys for listening today the fifth episode with Joanna. Hopefully you enjoyed. Push the like button, share and tell your friends about this podcast. Thank you very much and God bless.