In the US, it's something that happens every 11 minutes. In Oklahoma, it's the second leading cause of death in Oklahomans ages 10 to 24. It's the second leading cause of death in Native Americans aged 10 to 34, and in the last 21 years, black youth ages 10 to 19 saw the largest increase in rates of 78%.
This episode discusses suicide (listener discretion is advised). If you or someone you know is struggling with suicidal thoughts, we encourage you to reach out to your mental health provider. If you're in Tulsa, you can call COPES 24/7 at 918-744-4800, Oklahoma's 988 Mental Health Lifeline, or the helpline in your country.
🌟 Join us as we sit down with Family & Children's Services clinical director and suicidologist Emily Farmer to shed light on the often stigmatized topic of suicide, provide insights into prevention strategies and foster open conversations to help save lives.
Support and stay connected to us. First, be sure to hit that subscribe button wherever you're listening to us. Subscribing ensures you never miss an episode, and it's absolutely free. It also helps us continue bringing you quality content.
Consider leaving us a review. Your reviews not only make our day, but they also help others discover the podcast and join our community.
Share this episode with your friends, family, and anyone who might find it interesting. Word of mouth is a powerful way to grow our podcast family, and we truly appreciate your support.
We're always eager to hear your thoughts, ideas, and suggestions for future episodes. Visit www.okstateofmind.com for all of our episodes. You can also email us at communications@fcsok.org with any episode ideas or questions. We'd love to connect with you.
Thank you once again for accompanying us on the journey. Until next time!
In the US, it's something that happens every 11 minutes. In Oklahoma, it's the second leading cause of death in Oklahomans ages 10 to 24. It's the second leading cause of death in Native Americans aged 10 to 34, and in the last 21 years, black youth ages 10 to 19 saw the largest increase in rates of 78%.
This episode discusses suicide (listener discretion is advised). If you or someone you know is struggling with suicidal thoughts, we encourage you to reach out to your mental health provider. If you're in Tulsa, you can call COPES 24/7 at 918-744-4800, Oklahoma's 988 Mental Health Lifeline, or the helpline in your country.
🌟 Join us as we sit down with Family & Children's Services clinical director and suicidologist Emily Farmer to shed light on the often stigmatized topic of suicide, provide insights into prevention strategies and foster open conversations to help save lives.
Support and stay connected to us. First, be sure to hit that subscribe button wherever you're listening to us. Subscribing ensures you never miss an episode, and it's absolutely free. It also helps us continue bringing you quality content.
Consider leaving us a review. Your reviews not only make our day, but they also help others discover the podcast and join our community.
Share this episode with your friends, family, and anyone who might find it interesting. Word of mouth is a powerful way to grow our podcast family, and we truly appreciate your support.
We're always eager to hear your thoughts, ideas, and suggestions for future episodes. Visit www.okstateofmind.com for all of our episodes. You can also email us at communications@fcsok.org with any episode ideas or questions. We'd love to connect with you.
Thank you once again for accompanying us on the journey. Until next time!
Dee:
Hello and welcome to OK State of Mind, a podcast by Family Children's Services based in Tulsa, Oklahoma. This podcast seeks to satisfy inquisitive minds eager to delve into the realm of mental health and overall wellbeing. Join us on a journey to gain insights shared by mental health experts, draw inspiration from remarkable stories of resilience forged by those who have navigated challenging paths, and unveil the intricate science that underpins our thoughts and emotions. A sort of invisibilia, if you will. Through these explorations, we aim to illuminate the captivating"whys" behind our cognitive and emotional selves, hopefully unraveling the complexities that shape our behaviors, feelings, and perspectives. I'm your host Dee Harris, and today we're going all in with a topic that is sometimes difficult, but incredibly important to discuss. In the US, it's something that happens every 11 minutes. In Oklahoma, it's the second leading cause of death in Oklahomans ages 10 to 24. It's the second leading cause of death in Native Americans aged 10 to 34, and in the last 21 years, black youth ages 10 to 19 saw the largest increase in rates of 78%. Can you guess what it is? Our topic today is suicide. And before we begin, I want to say suicide may be sensitive and potentially distressing topic for some. And while we aim to provide an open and empathetic conversation about the subject, it is our intention to foster more understanding. So please be aware that the content may be triggering for some listeners. If you or someone you know is struggling with suicidal thoughts, we encourage you to reach out to your mental health provider. If you're in Tulsa, you can call COPES 24/7 at 918-744-4800, or in Oklahoma or the US you can call or text 988 or call the helpline in your country. So listener discretion is advised for this episode. September is Suicide Prevention Awareness Month, and through today's conversation, we aim to help raise awareness, examine the myths, and provide evidence-based truths, discussing prevention strategies. Suicide is a complex and multifaceted issue, and there's really no one size fits all approach to prevention, but it can include mental health care education, supportive networks, and crisis intervention. So whether your knowledge of suicide may be completely avoidance or painful intimacy, we hope that this episode will help you learn more. And joining us today is Family and Children's Services' clinical director and suicidologist Emily Farmer. Emily is on the leadership staff at Family Children's Services COPES team. COPES stands for Community Outreach, Psychiatric Emergency Services, and it's Tulsa's free and confidential 24/7 telephone crisis line and mobile crisis service. It provides immediate mental health crisis help to children and adults in the area. As the agency's suicidologist, Emily is trained in applied suicide intervention skills and has completed the crisis specialist training through the American Association of Suicidology. As a suicide subject matter expert, her work ranges from prevention to postvention using both the Zero Suicide Framework and utilizing the Seven Pillars of Suicide Prevention and Training. She also teaches curriculum called Talk Saves Lives. We invited her to speak with us today, not necessarily about COPES per se, but more about the stigmas, and with that welcome Emily Farmer to the OK State of Mind podcast. We're so glad you're here.
Emily:
Hi. Thank you for having me.
Dee:
So Emily, I'm sure you notice in your role that there often seems to be stigma surrounding mental health issues, especially the topic of suicide. I'm guessing that sometimes people may be ashamed or embarrassed about talking about their loved one's struggles, which may make it difficult for individuals to seek help or talk about their feelings in general. Emily, do you think that there is a stigma surrounding mental health issues including suicide?
Emily:
I think it's still, it's still an issue because we all care so much for each other. The people that are struggling don't want to put anyone else in a tough position. They also don't want to feel embarrassed or ashamed. And then those of us that care also don't want to make anyone else feel embarrassed or ashamed by bringing up the topic. What we want to focus on is that, the most important thing is to make sure that the person stays alive and that they can get help if they need it. A lot of us don't want to ask questions or bring something up that we don't know how to handle. So if we talk about suicide and we ask them if they're struggling if we don't know what to do, if they say that they are struggling, sometimes we'd rather just not bring up the topic at all. We don't want to embarrass people, but we'd also don't want to mishandle something. And so I think a lot of times that really contributes to everyone kind of staying quiet, whether they need help or whether the the person that could help someone.
Dee:
Talking about suicide openly may concern some that discussing it could actually trigger a suicidal thought or behavior. This fear might lead to avoidance of the topic. Emily, can you speak to that?
Emily:
It's one of those myths that I think we really need to talk about and myth bust, if you will, because asking if someone has thought about suicide, checking in with them about suicide is not going to cause them to have those thoughts. It's enough of a topic in our world today that they're going to be aware of it. Whether or not they're struggling with those types of thoughts. So really bringing it up to them is going to typically make someone feel really cared about. Like, wow, you care enough to ask and to bring up this tough topic, and it's not going to cause them to think about something that wasn't already on their mind. Now there is the idea of a suicide contagion, which is when we talk about suicide in unhealthy ways, especially after one happens in our community, we do see that suicide kind of becomes more common for that moment in time. But that's because we talk about it in those unhealthy ways. Like we talk about the details of what happened or the reason the person may have been struggling, and we don't tend to talk about the fact that there is hope, the fact that there is help out there. So that contagion only happens when we don't have the knowledge of how to get help and to talk about suicide in a supportive, caring way. So we have to focus on the right things when we bring up the topic and be prepared to make the person feel cared about and really heard.
Dee:
So how would you recommend doing that?
Emily:
You approach it as any other conversation, so you don't have to have the exact perfect words. You don't have to have the clinical language. The first thing that you want to do is check in with someone like you normally would. How are things going? What's going on? But what's the first thing that we always say when someone asks us how we're doing. We always say, oh, I'm fine. I'm good. So you take that moment and say, No, for real. I noticed that you've been quieter lately. Is everything OK? You don't jump in and ask about suicide. You hopefully get them talking about how they've been doing and what they're struggling with. And then you really listen to their response. And typically we don't listen. We think about the next thing that we're going to say. But you have to make eye contact, connect with them and make them feel that you really care. And then, based on how that conversation goes, you can decide whether or not you're going to ask about suicide. So if they say, yeah, things have been really hard, I can't handle this anymore, and they list off a couple of stressors, that's when in your own language, you would say, well, has it gotten to the point where you've thought about killing yourself? Has it gotten to the point where you've thought about ending your life? And you use those words because as awkward as it may feel, we have to know what we're actually talking about. And you kind of have to sit in that awkwardness and just be there because it's going to feel awkward.
Dee:
Yeah. It's almost like you have to face your own fear of the topic. Not only the topic, but being the person that needs to say something if you see something.
Emily:
You have to push through it because you care enough about them to deal with your own nervousness, stress, anxiety around it. And what I can tell you working in this field is that people don't get mad when you ask that question. They don't get insulted typically. They, first of all feel a huge amount of relief because they've been given this opportunity a lot of times to talk about something that's been on their mind that they've been struggling with, that they didn't feel like they could open up about. And you just gave them that freedom. And so they feel relieved and they know that you really care when you're taking that step. I think that that's the most important part, is to give them that opportunity in a way that's normal and in a conversation that feels like you would normally have with anybody that you care about.
Dee:
Many people may not fully understand the complexities of mental health issues and suicide. Do you think that this lack of understanding may lead to misconceptions or oversimplifications about the reasons and underlying factors behind suicidal thoughts and actions?
Emily:
Yeah. I think the first thing to understand is that it's going to be hard to relate to what the person who's struggling is telling you. It's not logical to think about suicide, and their brain is actually in that moment functioning differently than those of us who don't have those types of thoughts in the areas of impulse control and stress management. So as much as we try to problem solve when someone is talking about suicide or logically reason with them, it's not going to be effective because that's not the place that they're in and that's not the way their brain's functioning. What we know is that a lot of times with adults they do. They can think about the future and they can think about reasons to live. But one thing that's hard with young people is that because of their developmental level, timeframes feel really different. And it's hard as adults for us to relate to the idea that something, for us, a stressor maybe that could so short term in the scheme of our lives, feels so real and so long for a young person. It's like if they have a relationship loss or a consequence that's stressing them out, we all can think, wow, you won't even care about that in a couple of months. Or, yeah, you're grounded for a week, but that's such a short amount of time. We forget that we need to put ourselves in, into their perspective to help understand and relate to what they're saying. And people that are thinking of suicide, they don't really need problem solving. They need to feel heard and understood and like they're not alone. So when you're giving a response or trying to be supportive, you really want to help them feel like they are, that you're in it with them and that you're going to help them get help versus trying to problem solve or having logical conversations that they're not going to be really receptive to.
Dee:
Clearly much of what we have discussed today involves the simple medium of communication, but people may need more information to learn how to talk to people, particularly friends and loved ones about suicide. So I'd love to hear more about the Talk Saves Lives curriculum.
Emily:
Yes, we have a curriculum that we use called Talk Saves Lives. We use it as part of our prevention, the prevention that we provide in our community through COPES. And what I like about it is that it's short. It only takes about an hour and a half to go through the risk factors and warning signs, and then how to talk to someone who might be struggling. Those trainings are free. And you don't have to be a mental health professional to learn about how to reach out when someone is having a tough time. So you learn those risk factors and warning signs specifically, but then how to reach out and get someone connected to help, whether you are an adult working with adults, working with young people, whether in a professional field and using it for your business or in a school. The Talk Saves Lives program is going to be really helpful to feel more comfortable in supporting people. OK. So do people call and say, I'm interested in this curriculum, or do you set up and, and teach this in different areas? How can somebody find out more about that curriculum? They can call Family Children's Services and ask about Talk Saves Lives. They can email me and we can get them scheduled. So it's about reaching out to us. Probably email is the best way that they can get ahold of us. OK. And we'll put that in our notes section of the podcast today. So what, what's the impact that you've seen from the Talk Saves Lives curriculum? How long have you been teaching that? I have been teaching it for about five years now, and I see a lot of relief and confidence in people who really care. So a lot of times, like I was saying earlier, you don't want to ask someone if they're struggling because you don't know what to do if they say they are. And so the confidence that increases in someone who has those tools, who knows the community resources and knows how to ask the question, they're much more likely to check in on someone that they care about. So it feels really good that we're helping our community connect with how to get people help and, and have confidence in that.
Dee:
We have so many societal problems right now. Can you just tell a little bit about some of the warning signs that are pretty typical?
Emily:
So I like to differentiate between risk factors and warning signs. A risk factor is there for someone, usually throughout their life having to do with the difficult experiences they've had or even the current stressors that they're dealing with. But those don't always mean that someone's going to be suicidal when we see changes in the way that they talk and the way that they act, and their mood. That's when we want to take that step to check in. So a change is important to note because we all have our kind of personality quirks and ways that we function in the world. But if you see a change in the way that someone's talking, if they seem to be talking more about death and dying, if they seem to be mentioning feeling like a burden or not wanting to be here most people before they attempt to talk about suicide in some way, shape or form and you want to take note of that. So if you know that they have those stressors or those difficult life experiences going on, and then you see that change in how they talk that's one thing to take note of. It's also a change in their behavior. So a lot of times people will give things away or make plans for end of life when they're thinking about suicide, but they also may become more impulsive and make riskier decisions that they would normally make, like using drugs, drinking more, those types of things. The big one to look for though is to consider when someone's really pulling back from things that they usually care about, whether it's people, whether it's activities. A lot of times we'll see people isolate. They won't do things that they normally enjoyed or spend time with people that they care about. And then the last one that's a warning sign is change in mood and honestly, any change of mood. It doesn't just have to be a more depressed mood or a more sad mood. It could be a more anxious mood, irritable. I think that we sometimes forget that people who are acting a little bit rude, acting a little bit irritable may need to be checked on too, because a lot of times, in our world, certain people aren't allowed to seem sad. They feel like they have to seem strong and powerful, and so they might act like jerks versus crying. And so especially with parents your young people that have gotten in trouble for having an attitude make sure and check on them because any mood change can indicate a struggle. Sometimes people who have been struggling with their mental health feel a little bit of a sense of calm or happiness before they attempt suicide because they feel like they've found a solution or an answer. So any mood change should be checked on. Changes in mood, behavior, and the way that they're talking. The more of those things that you notice, the more you should be concerned. The more likely you should be to then check in with that person and have a conversation.
Dee:
You know, we talk a lot about the, the before you get to the crisis, the talking, the understanding, the symptoms, how to speak to somebody, connecting them with help, whether it's through the COPES hotline, 988 or mental health provider locally.
Emily:
Mm-hmm.
Dee:
But we do know that, you know, crises happen. What happens after the crisis? What is it that we can do as a support system?
Emily:
Well, I think. We typically all back away from someone who's gone through something like that. That's kind of how we function as a society. We don't know what to say, so we don't say anything at all. But the time after a crisis is when someone is actually still at pretty high risk of ending their life. And so you want to check in and this kind of check-in is just casual. Like,"Hey, how are you doing? Glad you're here." You don't have to even bring attention to whatever the specific crisis was. What you're doing is you're acknowledging that they went through something that was probably difficult and that you're there and that you care and you're glad to see them. Glad that they're still here. So you don't have to, you don't have to be really overt with it, but kind of that acknowledgement is going to be important. And then I think they see you as someone that maybe they could talk to if they're having a tough moment Again, because you, you did that, you showed that you're thinking about them.
Dee:
So this month we wanted to specifically talk to you because it's our Tomorrow Needs You campaign for September is suicide prevention month.
Emily:
Mm-hmm.
Dee:
And I know we're planning on doing a lot of things with the schools encouraging people that the world is a better place with you in it and you may be struggling, but there's help available and you can get help and you can have hope. Can, can you talk a little bit about some of the things we're going to be doing this month?
Emily:
Yes, I'm so excited. We have a great team working on the September events that we have going on, so I think the main thing that we're doing is we're connecting with young people in our communities to spread awareness, to make sure that they know about COPES and how to get help. And we're going to do that by, by doing something that we think they'll enjoy, which is sidewalk chalk at their school sites. So right now I think we have six or seven schools in the Tulsa area and specific student groups that are going to volunteer with us to write messages of hope to each other at each school site. They're also going to have the opportunity to make bracelets for each other and they'll have t-shirts because that's the way that we know that kids spread awareness is, is doing those types of things. And also spending time together is great. We want them to get familiar with COPES and the COPES team and calling that number so they'll have the opportunity to create messages of hope at each site. Our team is also always excited every year to participate in the Out of Darkness Walk. So we're going to have a team with Family Children's who are going to walk. In the walk and we will be at, we'll have a table at that event too. We'll give out information about COPES and about the other services that we provide as well. There are a few schools that we're going to be able to educate some of the students on suicide prevention. So I'm excited for that opportunity to not only spread awareness, but also give them the tools that they need to help support each other. Those young people are going to be at the front lines of noticing when one of their friends, classmates, teammates might be struggling. So they'll get that opportunity too. We all always want to identify that veterans are a high risk population for suicide and the VA or Veterans Association puts on an event every year. This year, it's going to be in early October, but we're going to participate in that event so that we can make sure that they're aware of suicide prevention efforts and COPES services too.
Dee:
We'll have all that information a link over to our website as well. And, you know, groups can still do this on their own too. Personally, I hear stories that come out of your team and the ways that you save lives every single day. And I didn't know if you had a success story or a story that you might want to share with our listeners today.
Emily:
Absolutely. We had a young person call in to COPES, which makes me really happy because we do want young people to take the initiative to call when they're struggling too. So they called in having suicidal thoughts, wanting help, and had a conversation with one of our team members and let them know that they were really nervous about talking with their parent about the situation. They didn't know how they would respond. They didn't want them to be upset and they knew they needed help. And so our team was able to connect with that parent with the input from the child on what, what felt comfortable to share and the parent was kind of feeling the same way that the young person was surprised and scared, but also not sure what to say, wanting to be supportive and wanting to give the help but also really worried about what this meant for their child. You know, I don't want them to go into the mental hospital. I don't want them to have this stigma. And so our team was really able to talk with them about, well, most of the time. these kind of things are really short term crisis that we can work through, get some support for, and move forward with help. And they talked the the parent through kind of how to get that help for the child and then how to have conversations so that they could feel supported. So not only were they able to really help connect the parent and the child, With each other. But then they also, you know, made sure that the kiddo could stay safe and the parent could help keep them safe until they got them connected with counseling for like a short term amount of time until the, the stressors were resolved and there was some ongoing stabilization there. So those are the kinds of stories that make me really excited for what we do and just really appreciative of the team that we have that works to help everyone in Tulsa with their. Their struggles in their crisis.
Dee:
COPES has been around for 24 plus years with a mobile response team. Can you just tell us about all the different places COPES is and how they help in the community?
Emily:
So we have, really made it a point to support law enforcement in being able to focus on what they do, which is law enforcement and help them with the mental health piece. And we've done that in multiple ways. So the first partnership that we had was the community response team. That's the team of one COPES clinician, one Tulsa Fire paramedic, and one TPD officer that responds to calls that come in through the 911 system out in the community. So they're responding mobily Monday through Friday out in the community to those calls as a team. We also have a 911 clinician embedded in the 911 center with TPD so that they can look at those calls as they come through the system and help with the calls that seem mental health related. COPES has clinicians in each of the patrol divisions with TPD, and that's our newest program and partnership. And then we also have a COPES team member that is out in the community responding with a Tulsa Fire paramedic to less risky calls related to mental health that come through both the EMSA system and the 911 system. So we're really proud of those partnerships to help people in the Tulsa community and get connected in, in the different ways that they call in for help.
Dee:
Tell me a little bit about what personally gives you hope.
Emily:
I am seeing a shift in the attitudes around suicide, particularly in young people. So the openness, the decreased stigma around talking about these things really gives me hope for people having more and more access for the future. I think that the young people are the key and I'm seeing a lot of positivity and connection and caring for each other. And so that's the main piece that gives me hope. I also think working with a team of people that care so much and a really solid team of specialized crisis therapists and case managers is, is very special. And so all of those entities really willing to work on this and support each other is pretty amazing to see.
Dee:
Oh, I love that. And hope does start here and I know you're doing that work every single day. And thank you for all of that. And thanks for joining us today. And as I, I said earlier for our listeners, we'll have information about how to connect with Emily, how to connect with COPES information about Talk Saves Lives and more information about Tomorrow Needs You campaign.
Emily:
Yeah, thank you for having me. It's been great.
Dee:
Thanks for tuning in. If you found value in what you heard today, there are a few ways you can support and stay connected to us. First, be sure to hit that subscribe button wherever you're listening. Subscribing ensures you never miss an episode, and it's absolutely free. It also helps us continue bringing you quality content. Consider leaving us a review. Your reviews not only make our day, but they also help others discover the podcast and join our community. Share this episode with your friends, family, and anyone who might find it interesting. Word of mouth is a powerful way to grow our podcast family, and we truly appreciate your support. We're always eager to hear your thoughts, ideas, and suggestions for future episodes. Visit okstateofmind.com for all of our episodes, and you can also email us at communications@fcsok.org with any episode ideas or questions. We'd love to connect with you and thank you once again for accompanying us on this journey. Until next time.